Ten leading indicators of American health-care superiority

posted at 1:00 pm on August 1, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Via Jonah Goldberg at The Corner, Hoover Institute’s Scott Atlas outlines ten facts you’ve probably not been told in the debate over health-care reform.  While nationalization advocates proclaim falling skies and health-care disasters (and propose massive expansion of real economic catastrophes as a cure-all), the chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical School gives a list of ten comparisons to remember as the debate continues:

  1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.
  2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.
  3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.
  4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.
  5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.
  6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom.
  7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.
  8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.
  9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain.
  10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

Be sure to read the supporting arguments in each; they’re eye-openers.  American men who have had good access to prostate-cancer screening may wonder why Canadian men are three times less likely to get the PSA antigen test.  For that matter, everyone may ask why Americans are six times more likely to have important colonoscopy testing than our northern neighbors.

Our system isn’t perfect, but if we want to fix it, let’s fix the real problems instead of breaking what works.

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but but this system sucks and needs trashed.

gsherin on August 1, 2009 at 1:03 PM

Saudi billionaires seem to think the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN, is pretty good. You’ll see ‘em there. They don’t come for the nightlife.

RBMN on August 1, 2009 at 1:06 PM

Who wrote this? John Stossel? You must be denouced as villians immediately! Obama’s presidency is at stake, how dare you question that!

Mr. Joe on August 1, 2009 at 1:09 PM

AnninCA believes that we will still be the tops in those things even after we all snuggle together under the blanket of ObamaCare/ObamAssurance.

myrenovations on August 1, 2009 at 1:09 PM

Weren’t we already aware of these facts years ago when Hillary tried to play the same scam on Americans?

Deja vu all over again.

…… donkeys are a stubborn breed.

fogw on August 1, 2009 at 1:09 PM

#10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

This will be the first thing to go under “Socialized Health Care”. With more than half the new drugs patents coming from the United States this will be horrific for the entire world.

Tommy_G on August 1, 2009 at 1:10 PM

None of those indicators give the ‘rats unfettered control over our lives, so they don’t count.

Bishop on August 1, 2009 at 1:11 PM

does it have anything in there about a surplus of tonsils?

gsherin on August 1, 2009 at 1:13 PM

But I can’t sit on my butt doing nothing here and still get health care!

Seriously, I like this list. It’s a great and concise argument to present to all of these idiots who romanticize the health care system in other countries. No one is ever going to be able to create a perfect system. But ours isn’t as broken as socialized medicine is.

Sir Corky on August 1, 2009 at 1:13 PM

Let the government help! It should go as smoothly as our VA heath sys- Umm, Medic- Er, the Cash for Clun-

Crap.

cs89 on August 1, 2009 at 1:16 PM

let’s fix the real problems instead of breaking what works.

Bravo.

Great links. I like Jonah Goldberg on practical history as ideas evolve. It’s good to get referenced to Hoover Institute and exposed to Atlas’ works.

Is this week’s link to the Republican House C-SPAN presentation by physician-Congressmen on this health care issue available?

So much time is spent refuting HR 3200 ObamaCare (correctly) that the GOP bill never gets coverage except in passing note.

The GOP Congressmen have succinctly projected exactly what corrections need making in current legislation in order to function while preventing/eliminating corruption and fraud, while addressing further details including TORT reform that have yet to be resolved to enable the betterment of our great American health care system, made more affordable without hurtful government dictums.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Good link, thanks, Mrs Federalist in involved in a Facebook debate with some statists who are buying into all the rainbows and unicorns being promised by ObamaCare, this should help.

BTW, Ed — Hotair is crashing Safari. Mrs Federalist cannot open any links to HotAir without losing everything.

AZfederalist on August 1, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Another factor not to be missed: socialized medicine supporters often point to life span being longer in Europe, but what they fail to point out is that what is a stillborn child over there is often an ICU treated child here, because we have financed much better technology to attempt premature infant rescue through capitalism. Some still die in America, which tends to lower the average life span (obviously, since those that do not survive have a lifespan of days) but in Europe they are not only without all of the options due to socialized medicine, the infants that don’t get a chance are not counted in the European life span stats.

Vashta.Nerada on August 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM

Tommy_G on August 1, 2009 at 1:10 PM

The TN Congressman (physician) noted that when his state consigned itself into socialized medicine, that state’s population ended up topping the national list of pill poppers while bottoming the list in resulting good health.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:22 PM

the infants that don’t get a chance are not counted in the European life span stats.

Vashta.Nerada on August 1, 2009 at 1:21 PM

The statistical advantages abortion provides are grotesque, the Dorian Gray affect.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:24 PM

With more than half the new drugs patents coming from the United States this will be horrific for the entire world.

Tommy_G on August 1, 2009 at 1:10 PM

I sent a link of this article with almost the exact same comment to my brother-in-law. He’s a newly minted nurse and says all of the doctors he’s spoken with are advocating a single-payer system, and he really believes Obama’s got it right. I’m stunned at the blinders some people have on.

nukemhill on August 1, 2009 at 1:25 PM

cs89 on August 1, 2009 at 1:16 PM

heh

crash the dumpers

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

If the Dims succeed in having government take over health care, this will end. Companies won’t invest in research for new medications and new medical technologies when they know that miserly government payment schedules will prevent them from recouping their investment (let alone actually making a profit).

The entire world benefits from our current system, and if it is “reformed” by a government takeover, the entire world will suffer greatly for it.

AZCoyote on August 1, 2009 at 1:27 PM

ours isn’t as broken as socialized medicine is.
Sir Corky on August 1, 2009 at 1:13 PM

…treating pulled muscle with a PERMANENT body cast.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:28 PM

I sent a link of this article with almost the exact same comment to my brother-in-law. He’s a newly minted nurse and says all of the doctors he’s spoken with are advocating a single-payer system, and he really believes Obama’s got it right. I’m stunned at the blinders some people have on.

nukemhill on August 1, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Not around here — doctors and nurses that we know are apoplectic about the over-reach of this bill. They in no way want anything to do with a single payer or government run system of any sort. Their experience with medicare and other government run programs gives them no illusions of the abomination ObamaCare will turn out to be.

AZfederalist on August 1, 2009 at 1:29 PM

AZCoyote on August 1, 2009 at 1:27 PM

All research will be confined to what the government determines is desirable, negating all findings determined inconvenient or uncomfortable in the “One Voice” only picture.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:30 PM

Take the Pain Pill

deedtrader on August 1, 2009 at 1:30 PM

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:22 PM

And that was just one of many problems the TennCare program experienced. Like all the other socialized systems that have been tried, its costs quickly exploded far beyond the original government estimates.

AZCoyote on August 1, 2009 at 1:31 PM

If you believe anything in that list, you’ve been brainwashed. I understand the fear of anything socialized. But the health care system in most other industrialized nations is far superior than that of the US. It’s not even close. Until the US fixes its problem with 40 million uninsured, all your lists are moot.

And what’s with attacking the Canadian health care system? This has been debunked time and again. And yet these crazy conspiracy theories still abound.

HA is turning into conspiracy central.

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM

You are absurdly ill-informed.

AZCoyote on August 1, 2009 at 1:37 PM

Another consideration is the retention factor of American physicians.

For example:

[Italian]Doctors Line Up For Jobs Abroad
“Higher salaries, promotion on merit and better opportunities. That’s why we’re saying ‘Arrivederci, Italy’”

In America itself, according to the American Medical Association (AMA), International Medical Graduates (IMGs) constitute approximately 25% of the physician population. Indians are by far the largest group-nearly 20% of American physicians were trained in India. According to some calculations, of the nearly 24,000 medical graduates India produces every year, 1200 eventually emigrate.

Study Results
Canadian Physician Exodus Benefits United States, Hurts Canada
Canada has quietly emerged as a major supplier of physicians to the United States in the past several years, second only to India in the number of doctors it produces for the American medical market, according to a new study in the April 10 [2007]Canadian Medical Association Journal.

heroyalwhyness on August 1, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Hope this guy doesn’t have any outstanding parking tickets or something. The Lighworker’s followers will probably try and tear his life apart for daring to state facts.

Techie on August 1, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Their experience with medicare and other government run programs gives them no illusions of the abomination ObamaCare will turn out to be.

AZfederalist on August 1, 2009 at 1:29 PM

Arizona had county hospitals for the indigent at least since the 1960s, having provided AZ medical professionals fifty years of experience delivering socialized care ON THE LIMITED LOCAL SCALE. Also, AZ has more native tribal land mass reservation, with the sad experience of the federal mis-application of legislated tribal medical services. Finally, AZ has a huge retiree population dealing with the federal Medicaid/Medicare problems.

They would speak from experience.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Wow, MrX’s “Shut up, that’s why” argument has certainly persuaded me………

Techie on August 1, 2009 at 1:41 PM

But the health care system in most other industrialized nations is far superior than that of the US. It’s not even close.

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Name them.

fogw on August 1, 2009 at 1:43 PM

Number 10 has important global implications. When we remove the incentive and reward from the field of medicine, we will lose the potential to deal effectively with new communicable diseases, birth defects, etc. Look at the quantum leaps medical research has taken just since the polio era. Shall we forfeit our ability to help all of humankind deal with its maladies so that we can sacrifice our God-gifted system on the altar of socialized medicine?

whitetop on August 1, 2009 at 1:44 PM

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM

You provide mere talking points long on absolutes and completely lacking in any kind of substantive support or corroboration. Perhaps you can tell me the last time some of our elected officials went to Canada or Europe to seek treatment when they fell ill? Ted Kennedy’s injuries from the car crash recent brain cancer? Is Sen. Dodd on his way to his AIG cronies Ireland dacha for his prostate?
The only difference between you and a cheerleader (I am assuming here) would be the skirt and pom poms. Please tell me if I am wrong…. either about the skirt or your fantasies about the inferiority of American health care.

Tom_OC on August 1, 2009 at 1:44 PM

But the health care system in most other industrialized nations is far superior than that of the US. It’s not even close.

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Hey there MrX, I’m guessing you’ve never lived and received medical treatment under any of those other systems, have you?

Or should I say, ‘received treatment and lived’?

DarkCurrent on August 1, 2009 at 1:49 PM

Be sure to read the supporting arguments in each; they’re eye-openers.

Yeah, but they shouldn’t be..

karl9000 on August 1, 2009 at 1:56 PM

But the health care system in most other industrialized nations is far superior than that of the US. It’s not even close.

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Because they are “free?”

oceansidecon on August 1, 2009 at 1:56 PM

Wasn’t Barry the guy who talked about using a defibullator, no, wait, a breathalyzer to treat asthma?

And we’re gonna sit back and let Dr. Obama sap and impurify all our precious bodily fluids?

Christien on August 1, 2009 at 2:00 PM

Nothing about our vicious predatory tonsil care, I see.

LibTired on August 1, 2009 at 2:11 PM

MrX and others: It can be statistically proven that socialize medicine provides inferior care. Additionally, I have already shown that average life span is a fallacious measure of quality of medical care. In my sphere of personal interest, neonatal care, the Heritage Foundation has reviewed statistical analysis of neonatal care in the US versus countries with socialized medicine:

There are many ways to measure quality. One way is to consider key indices of treatment, such as
neonatal care. Today, the United States has high
neonatal intensive care capacity, with 6.1 neonatol-
ogists per 10,000 live births; Australia has 3.7 per
10,000; Canada, 3.3 per 10, 000; and the United
Kingdom, 2.7 per 10,000. The United States has
3.3 intensive care beds per 10,000 live births; Australia and Canada have 2.6 per 10,000; and the
United Kingdom, 0.67 per 10,000. While American “overinvestment” in lifesaving of premature infants may come at the expense of proportionately less support for preconception and prenatal care, British neonatal intensive care capacity is far below that found in nearly every other Western nation. Although Canada has more generous welfare entitlements, less income disparity, universal health coverage, and more uniform standards of perinatal care than the United States, variations in mortality rates among Canadian neonatal intensive care units appear to be as wide as those reported in the United States and elsewhere.

http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/upload/bg_1973.pdf

I, along with over 80% of Americans, am satisfied with my health insurance and providers. You and your ilk want to force me to pay substantially more money for lesser care, and my answer is – get lost.

Vashta.Nerada on August 1, 2009 at 2:15 PM

RBMN on August 1, 2009 at 1:06 PM

While they may be coming to Mayo you know they are enjoying the nightlife.

chemman on August 1, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Mr. X you had better change banana peel brands that last batch you smoked was a little to rich for you.

chemman on August 1, 2009 at 2:48 PM

But…but…Michael Moore said our health-care system is “Sicko”!

jgapinoy on August 1, 2009 at 2:56 PM

A freshman Congressman and physician, John Fleming, from LA has a petition, etc. HERE

Also has a link to the Dem. plan – an image which donkeys have declared ILLEGAL for Rep. Congress to mail.

Great surname for a doc!!

And here is the health plan (actually a cafeteria menu of health plans) available (and 75% paid for by taxpayers) to Congress.

Federal employees, retirees and their survivors enjoy the widest selection of health plans in the country

fred5678 on August 1, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Mr. X is broadcasting from the East Wing.

MikeA on August 1, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway.

Now that’s healthcare you can believe in!

boomer on August 1, 2009 at 3:05 PM

boomer on August 1, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Where’s MrX now? I’m certain that drawing on his vast knowledge and personal experience with socialized health care he’ll have no difficulty explaining those obviously faulty numbers away

DarkCurrent on August 1, 2009 at 3:18 PM

Hold on a minute, my phone is ringing……….Oh it was The Messiah’s Auntie – she is living in her rent-free government Condo on the 5oth floor with a view and she’s pissed because her Welfare check and Food Stamps only added up to 2 grand this month instead of 3. Oh well – she’s here illegally but says that The Messiah will protect her – and this Health Care stuff she says, “Hey stupid Americans – The Messiah doesn’t care about “the facts” or “the truth” about how good U.S. Health care really is. This is all about lying and buying votes from the Unions and the illegals!” Damn – she really is smart. She has a great view from the 5oth floor – she can see all of us go to work everyday while she watches her wide-screen TV and eats fresh Mango and fresh Kiwi and tuna. Boy – maybe I should be an illegal too………………..

Cinday Blackburn on August 1, 2009 at 3:24 PM

The America haters always like to argue that other countries have longer life expectancies. I try to tell them that the US is not a homogenous population but a mix from all over the world and how long we live depends partially on genetics.

They also go on and on about infant mortality. I try to explain to them about how the stats are skewed against us. They don’t understand simple logic. According to them, we are akin to a third world country and infants and children are dying in the streets. It’s so stupid as to be laughable.

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 3:42 PM

And what’s with attacking the Canadian health care system? This has been debunked time and again.

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:35 PM

Debunked my a$$. I’ve been listening to lefty canadians complain for over the pass 10 years. And there complaints are about the long waits. A wait up to a year for gallbladder surgery. It’s not life threatening but it’s absurd to allow someone to suffer that long. I hear the difficulty in seeing a specialist when they clearly needed to see one and again the long waits. And explain why rich canadians come to the US for treatment? And why someone with a pituitary tumor couldn’t even see a neurosurgeon before 4 months? She finally gave up and came to the US for treatment.

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Mortality rates for treatable diseases is a major indicator for programs that are trying to contain costs. Not only does it cost money for the treatment now, but it extends the time when treatment must be administered. If they die now because you didn’t offer treatment, it means you don’t have to give them the expensive treatments they will need in the next few years.

redtail on August 1, 2009 at 4:35 PM

Clearly, if America’s health system was worth a dime, Michael Moore would have been cured of his obesity by now.

Go on, find someone in Cuba who eats as much fatty, sugary garbage as that poor soul must shovel in each and every day. Socialized medicine would never let obesity just happen like that.

Sheena_is_a_Conservative_Now on August 1, 2009 at 5:22 PM

Blake

When your lefty friends yap about infant mortality, site this article from US NEWS written by Dr. Bernadine Healy their health editor. She blows the whole skewed #s outta the water!

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/070826/3healy.htm

Form the article:

Count again. We report mortality rates based on World Health Organization guidelines for a live birth. A baby fully separated from the mother and showing any sign of life, even a single breath, counts as a newborn, regardless of other factors. Many developed countries with better infant mortality rates don’t follow that to the letter. They purposely exclude deaths according to weight, degree of prematurity, or how long the baby lives.

Be serious—if you try to save sicker babies, you will have higher mortality. Some are catching on. In a recent study, researchers found that by correcting for weight, the mortality risk was the same in the United States as in Canada—and maybe even a bit better—despite our northern neighbor’s welfare entitlements and universal healthcare system.

JAM on August 1, 2009 at 5:31 PM

This needs to be made into an ad… NOW!!!!

Yakko77 on August 1, 2009 at 6:11 PM

Until the US fixes its problem with 40 million uninsured, all your lists are moot.

Mr.X

Epic fail.

Slurp that kool aid, sucker.

xblade on August 1, 2009 at 6:23 PM

And what’s with attacking the Canadian health care system? This has been debunked time and again. And yet these crazy conspiracy theories still abound.

And yet this website exists:

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/transformation/wait_times/public/wt_understanding.html

Is this something whipped up by the conspiracy?

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 6:55 PM

JAM on August 1, 2009 at 5:31 PM

Hey, I was going to post that article! Oh well, here’s one you may not have read:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/07/23/health_care_mythology_97552.html

It sums up all the arguments nicely.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 6:57 PM

Sadly facts have never mattered in this debate. In fact it is not a stretch to suggest that the proposals to date have very little to do with health care but more to do with assuming complete control over 17% of our economy.

Chavez and the like are at least more honest about it when they nationalize industries. Obama and crew have the cheek to suggest they are doing for the greater good.

patrick neid on August 1, 2009 at 7:18 PM

Patient “Thank God, after a 22 hour wait I finally got to see a doctor.”

Doctor: “Well, technically I’m not a doctor, but since the implementation of ObamaCare, they’re giving medical licenses to anyone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.”

MaiDee on August 1, 2009 at 7:28 PM

On that much Ballyhooed list of “Best Health care” put out by the WHO, Morocco scores higher than the US.

Morocco….

Riiiiiight. All those flights from NYC to Tangier for treatment must exist, right??

Also Monaco, Dominica, Andorra, and San Marino. All of whom have populations under 100,000 people. Smaller than most US Area Codes. Malta is above us and has a population of 400,000. Greece is above us, and outside of the major cities, it’s basically a third-world country.

It’s amazing the perspective a little common sense brings.

Techie on August 1, 2009 at 7:43 PM

Here is a quote from youtube handle Kansasgrandmother

Over on /watch?v=z-1ZfFBMf8s an Obamunist keeps covering up my post about my 29 year-old Cousin who died from CanadaCare neglect on 9July09. I think he doesnt want people to know of the Cruelty of Gov-run Health Care. Look & see how he posts & posts to cover up peoples personal stories. Hes trying to silence me & Gov will do this to you if you let them take over Health Care. Someone help me get my cousins story out, please.

Would anyone like to help this woman?

AlreadyKnownAs on August 1, 2009 at 8:05 PM

This will be the first thing to go under “Socialized Health Care”. With more than half the new drugs patents coming from the United States this will be horrific for the entire world.

Tommy_G on August 1, 2009 at 1:10 PM

So, Obamacare would be America going Gault.

Count to 10 on August 1, 2009 at 8:15 PM

What are these places he speaks of, “Britain” and “The United Kingdom?” Obviously places where they have done government health care incorrectly. He should be comparing it to the fine, fine system in England.

-President Barack H. Obama.

Kafir on August 1, 2009 at 8:22 PM

This might come off as somewhat odd, but here is a critique of the Japanese medical system, in how it compares negatively to the US system, written in a fictionalized graphic novel format:
http://www.onemanga.com/Team_Medical_Dragon/

Count to 10 on August 1, 2009 at 8:27 PM

The cure for Michael Moore’s affliction is to soak his head in water for five minutes.

One of the great virtues of our health care system is an ability to choose one’s doctor and if dissatisfied to choose someone else. Good luck with CommieCare.

For Obamacare don’t be surprised if Zero assigns dimwit Jocelyn “What’s this organ do?” Elders or Michael Jackson’s quota doctor (Wonder what happens if he mainlines meperidine?) the MeHarry graduate as your permanent an irrevocable treating physician. Celebrate diversity!

viking01 on August 1, 2009 at 8:30 PM

JAM on August 1, 2009 at 5:31 PM

Thank you for posting that link! I’ve been searching for that story, or something similar for days now. Since, with the congressional recess nearly upon us, the facts from the left will be fast, and loose as they try to sell this pig to the public.

DngrMse on August 1, 2009 at 8:45 PM

1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.

Canada, Australia and France also score very high in the Lancet study and France does better than the US for certain types of cancer. What is not mentioned is that the rates in the US vary more widely in the US than anywhere else and it depends on access to care. Hawaii actually has the highest survival rates in the US. Hawaii is also the first state where universal health care was attempted. Japan and Australia both do extremely well… Japan does better than the US.

2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.

And there are states with national plans that do better than the US.

3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.

This is difficult to look into since studies vary and the Hoover article only looked at statins.

4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.

Again… lots of other countries seem to have screening levels close to or higher than the US.

5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.

Lower income Brits do better than Americans. Older Brits do better than older Americans. Again… horses for courses.

6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom.

There are lots of Americans not waiting because there is no care for them. Also, look at the OECD study and you will see all sorts of ways of looking at access to care and what that actually means.

7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.

Yeah… they want more and better care. None of those countries want to unwind national universal health care plans. None.

8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.

Pick a poll.. and then see if Canadians want to unwind national health care… same for the UK. Big no.

9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain.

And yet Americans are middle table when compared to other nationalized universal health care systems. Also the trend in the US is flat while other countries are leaping ahead when one compares 1990 figures to 2000. It will be interesting to see where this goes in future surveys.

10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

Yes and we spend much more. This is where the article is completely right and yet it has little to do with real health care.

I’m not advocating that we mimic or directly copy any other nation’s plan. We need to find something that works well in the US and build on that. Per the first point, Hawaii is notable for its success in certain areas of care, and it has been innovative in attempting to drive to universal health care but the system is far from perfect… plenty of write ups out there on that.

The Hoover article looks at health care through an ideological prism much like ‘Sicko.’ Selectively taking statistics and studies which only prove one side’s argument while blatantly ignoring contrary evidence in those same reports doesn’t help us get to a better, more affordable system of health care. The sooner we take off the dogma goggles and look at this in a reasonable way the better off Americans will be.

lexhamfox on August 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM

The sooner we take off the dogma goggles and look at this in a reasonable way the better off Americans will be.

lexhamfox on August 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM

OK, I’ll bite. What’s “reasonable”? ObamaCare?

venividivici on August 1, 2009 at 11:39 PM

lexhamfox on August 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM

Lancet, the organization who put out a thoroughly debunked “study” on Iraqi deaths a couple of years back?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/oct/24/iraq.internationalnews

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/databomb/index.htm

Look, I would treat with skepticism any journal that has a bias towards nationalized healthcare. I also seem to recall that Lancet had a lot to do with hawking the debunked Stern Report as well. There are many ways to cherry pick information; remember how Britain was touted as a place that had low crime rates until it came out that Scotland Yard wouldn’t report a crime unless they solved it. After that people learned how crime ridden the UK was. I suspect the people involved with the NHS are not above that sort of reporting. You can’t have ever lived there (which I have) and go away thinking that what they have is better than what we have.

Ann NY on August 2, 2009 at 7:11 AM

Saudi billionaires seem to think the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN, is pretty good. You’ll see ‘em there. They don’t come for the nightlife.

RBMN on August 1, 2009 at 1:06 PM

NO, they party in either Winona or jump across the river and party in LaCrosse

Jeff from WI on August 2, 2009 at 8:25 AM

#10 should concern all nations, not just the U.S. It’s likely that the first cost-savings will be in the R&D budgets of the pharmaceutical companies, who realize that Uncle Sam won’t be paying for new treatments.

We’ll end up with either a horrible health care system, with no neighbors to visit for care, or a pay-twice system similar to our schools. Millions of Americans will end up paying for public health care, but also have to pay for private health care in order to get the quality they want.

hawksruleva on August 2, 2009 at 10:32 AM

Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway.

Question: Senator Chris Dodd just announced that through his ‘Cadillac’ health plan he has just discovered that he has Prostrate Cancer. He also announced that he is going to have a quick operation over the August break.

I wonder what options for surgery would he have (and how long would he have to wait) if he was only a 70 year old man named Chris Dodd who lives in Canada or the United Kingdom?

A quick Google search of Canadian Prostrate Cancer came back with various numbers – up to 244 days.

Uniblogger on August 2, 2009 at 10:37 AM

Ann NY on August 2, 2009 at 7:11 AM

Most of the points made about cancer treatment in the Hoover article cited by Ed via Jonah are based on data from the Lancet report. The report does not flatter the NHS in the UK.

I grew up under both NHS and American health care. Health care in the UK is not a disaster but has problems and is constantly being tinkered with. Basic treatment and ICU care will not lead to certain bankruptcy in the UK and there are a number of private providers offering alternative treatment and long term care options.

venividivici on August 1, 2009 at 11:39 PM

I would like to see a health policy which which aims to provide universal basic care to citizens, includes comprehensive tort reform, and encouragement for insurance providers to operate across the country. I think that is reasonable.

lexhamfox on August 2, 2009 at 1:38 PM

I am chagrined at the lack of organized lobby group opposition to Obamacare as presented by Congressional Democrats. Where are the “Harry & Louise”-style ads which link this wealth redistribution ploy with creeping socialism and rationing? Just because the administration threatened insurance company lobby groups with losing a seat the bargaining table if they oppose the health care plans doesn’t mean that they ought to disappear or not speak out!

Where are the investigative journalists, besides John Stossel, who are shedding light on the problems with government health care every half hour, exposing the administration’s threats to the insurance industry lobby groups every fifteen minutes? Why isn’t there a new report every six hours about a new administration policy that oversteps it Constitutional bounds or statutory requirements, like thirty days notice before firing an Inspector General? Where is the journalistic outrage of administration lies, cover ups, misinformation, disinformation, policy failures (support Zelaya? waddadummass idea)? Oh LOOK, a Unicorn!

Based on my questions, we might as well write out the Freedom of the Press phrase in the First Amendment because newspapers and media outlets aren’t going to use it any more unless it is to attack and dismantle conservative politicians, whom they investigate and hound without ceasing. I never thought much of journalists before and even less do I now.

ExpressoBold on August 2, 2009 at 2:30 PM

hmmm..idea…

put these up on the roadside in the manner of the old “burma shave” signs…

sure, they won’t last long…but lots of people might see them in the meantime.

warhorse_03826 on August 2, 2009 at 7:41 PM