Just a reminder: Cash for Clunkers requires destroying perfectly usable cars
posted at 2:35 pm on August 1, 2009 by Allahpundit
Rarely do you encounter a wealth-destroying green measure that literally destroys wealth but this is an exception and therefore a sweet, sweet metaphor for Obamanomics. I think some people are under the impression that C4C is just a trade-in program, where the dealer gets to keep the buyer’s old ride and sell it for parts or to a used-car dealer, etc. Not so. The whole point is to get fuel-inefficient vehicles off the road, which means the engines — the most valuable part — have to be destroyed. The Examiner’s Bill Dupray is horrified at the sheer inefficiency of it all:
The Cash for Clunkers program is stupid for a lot of reasons. Not only is it just another tax-payer bailout of the
unionsautomakers, who can sell more cars at artificially depressed prices so they can keep the doors open. It also screws with the free-market (big surprise there) by pulling forward demand that isn’t there now, only to kill demand over the next 1-2 years. Killing off the clunkers also hurts the used car market, the spare parts market, and the auto repair business. If there aren’t any old cars to buy or fix, those guys are all out of a job.But one of the most asinine parts of the plan is that they take old cars, many of which were being used as functional day-to-day transportation the day before, and destroy them. A perfectly good and useful machine destroyed for political reasons…
I know people will say that some of these cars were maintenance disasters to own and if the blue book is less that what someone will pay you for it, then there is no point in keeping it. But the Cash for Clunkers program requires that a working vehicle be destroyed. What about giving it to charity, or to your teenager, or to whomever deems the thing more useful than a $4,500 credit on a new car.
Via Dupray, here’s video of a Volvo in its death throes for the sake of Mother Gaia, but if you only have a few minutes to spare, skip it. Spend it instead on the Times’s must-read about the last hours of a clunker and watch the (sadly non-embeddable) video at the link. Not only is the program inefficient in the macro sense, but the feds’ underbudgeting and rickety Internet interface have made it inefficient at the micro level too by leaving dealers uncertain about whether they’ll ever be reimbursed for the rebates they’re paying out. Sample quote: “There is absolute frustration across the board.” No wonder a majority of the public is against the program.
Blowback
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Those were the top links, fools
Ugly on August 2, 2009 at 5:07 AM
If you divide $1B by the $4500 for each car traded, wouldn’t that be way more cars than there are drivers in the US? Are there any hidden fees or incentives to dealers for each car that haven’t been discussed here? Maybe this is another way to funnel money to car companies or banks. Got your cupcake yet?
Kissmygrits on August 2, 2009 at 7:44 AM
Wouldn’t take too much stock in what Top Gear says about anything these days, although that little snippet wasn’t too badly put together.
I wonder if Clarkson is still regarded as someone who ‘hates America’ here..
Reaps on August 2, 2009 at 8:16 AM
Oh, and forgot to mention… Didn’t they try a similar ‘clunker’ law back in the 90s? I don’t even think there was a cash incentive last time – just an excuse to wreck perfectly good 50s/60s/70s classics..
Reaps on August 2, 2009 at 8:17 AM
Wow, I found the episode.
1998. Can’t say I was all that politically-minded back then, so will be interesting to find out more about it..
Reaps on August 2, 2009 at 8:21 AM
You know, this makes me think of a problem my dad has had with his neighbors. He lives in an upper-crusty liberal neighborhood–hybrids and super-expensive bicycles as far as the eye can see– and never had a problem till he brought his 1970 Chevy pick-up back from my grandad’s farm. He has two newer cars that he drives for nearly everything, but he couldn’t bear to get rid of “the farm truck” after my grandad died. The truck runs well, and isn’t even terribly beat up, just old, but his neighbors hate it. The truck was towed from the street, twice, because his neighbors called it a junk car, and then even towed from his own driveway while he was out of town. He drives it back from the impound lot every time, and has now taken to storing it at my house. I tell him he should race it up and down the block at odd hours just to show the neighbors it does in fact run, but he’s too nice.
Sheena_is_a_Conservative_Now on August 2, 2009 at 8:51 AM
I have a “clunker” gathering dust in the driveway. Its market value is $1500 selling it privately. I had thoughts of using the C4C and getting $4500 towards a new car. But I didn’t because what you described is what I figured would happen. I’d get an extra $3000 in value for the trade, but any car I buy will cost $3000 more during the program’s run since the dealers won’t deal on the price.
Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans don’t see this. They see $4500 incentive and run like lemmings to buy a $30,000 car that they could have had for $26,000 a week earlier. The dealers are the ones who win in the end. They sell cars for full MSRP and laugh all the way to the bank while sucker taxpayer foots the bill.
angryed on August 2, 2009 at 9:03 AM
See my post above regarding benefits for dealers. They get to sell cars at full MSRP.
angryed on August 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM
A disgusting waste of critical resources and money, but that is our government in a nutshell.
TexasJew on August 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM
Yep.
shick on August 2, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Hopefully you weren’t refering to my mindset.
shick on August 2, 2009 at 9:44 AM
The video of the Volvo engine being ruined by Beavis and Butthead is pretty disturbing. Remember, these are the guys at the dealership who will work on YOUR car when you bring it in for service.
All B&B did to this car was drain the oil, and then revved it until it burned up. This is kinda dangerous, ya think? Supposedly the C4C program has a special fluid to ruin the engine without starting a big fire.
Anyway, I’m opposed to the whole C4C program anyway because a society in the aggregate doesn’t get any richer by destroying perfectly good property.
capricorn on August 2, 2009 at 9:47 AM
I drove a 1989 Subaru 13 years. Did my own service on it, changed the timing belts in a walmart parking lot in 1hr 10 mins. It ran until I gave it to a teenage daughter that drove till it died, melted the water pump, but made it home.
$3500/13 = $270 per year cost, not including fuel and insurance.
Now we eliminate affordable cars from the market.
gooddad on August 2, 2009 at 9:54 AM
I bought a car yesterday, first time in 13 years. My car, a 1996 Saturn SL1 5speed w/ 129,500 miles did NOT qualify for C4C. They did not want my car as it has no blue book or wholesale value, which rather surprised me. Yeah, it has a busted AC and gas gauge, but on the whole, the body was in great shape, the car ran pretty well. The frame however was begin to rust. I live in Northern NJ and the car was never garaged. It didn’t owe me a dime.
The dealer said that it was killing them to destroy perfectly usable cars, one guy said it broke his heart, he wondered why the cars could not be given to various charities or programs for first time drivers and students who need transportation but can’t necessarily aford it.
It only took a couple of hours and I found a young man who needs reliable transportation going to interviews as he is looking for a full time job. I am giving him my car along with a certification that no taxes will have to paid. It didn’t take much effort.
Willie on August 2, 2009 at 10:16 AM
If you have bad credit you still can’t buy a car…so the rich still get richer.
tomas on August 2, 2009 at 10:43 AM
MSNBC’s Take on This
I just watched a Sunday morning report on our liberal news source from some unknown voice on the telephone (apparently a reporter) who claimed: inter alia:
1) 2/3 of the new cars being sold in the program are American.
2) Mostly SUV’s were being traded. (One of my neighbors wants to trade his SUV for a small car for his wife. The savings will help him buy a new Escalade. The family loves SUV’s.)
3) Dealers were making money due to the program.
4) It helps the energy crisis and the enviroment.
You get it. Never do those ‘news people’ on that ‘cluster of snark’ network mention that it is public dollars being given away or any of the other issues mentioned above. My question for them is why stop at $4,000? Why Not $8,000 or $16,000 or…?
God help GM with this government in control.
IlikedAUH2O on August 2, 2009 at 10:43 AM
Fox news just said that McCain was going to filibuster the new money for this bad bill.Lets hope so even a broken clock is right 2 times a day.
thmcbb on August 2, 2009 at 11:03 AM
This program just shows that Washington, and their pet economists, are clueless.
They get caught up in GDP and macro numbers, and the banking industry, and look at the MOVEMENT of money as a generator of Societal Wealth…
When in reality, Soceital wealth comes from the Creation of goods, which are then transported to the populace, and consumed (destoryed).
If the Society is creating more goods than it destroys, that society is getting Richer… if it Consumes more… it is destoying wealth.
Problem is that our genuius’s in the Colleges now think that things like Banks CREATE Wealth… they do not… they siphon wealth out of cycle… yes they are needed, to get the capital to where its needed by the system… but the more Money THEY make, the less is availble for goods creation.
Because this is how they now think of wealth as just capital flow, they come up with plans like this… which Destroys actaul wealth (goods)…
Really sad part… is the realization that my KIDS are buying these cars through the Deficit the Government is creating, but will never get to drive them.
Romeo13 on August 2, 2009 at 11:44 AM
There’s some interesting speculation over on The Truth About Cars about Chrysler’s sudden cancellation of their C4C matching incentive on their qualifying models.
Here’s the link.
I drove through the lot at my local Dodge- Chrysler- Jeep dealer this morning. They didn’t have any Dodge Calibers, Jeep Compasses, or Jeep Libertys on the entire lot. They had 6 Dodge Avangers that had “$4500 off” chalked on the windshields. With the extended factory summer shutdowns by GM and Chrysler going on right now, they may be down on inventory for awhile.
Dukeboy01 on August 2, 2009 at 12:08 PM
If you divide $1B by the $4500 for each car traded, wouldn’t that be way more cars than there are drivers in the US?
No. A quickie calculation shows ball park 250,000 cars. There are about 200 million licensed drivers.
Giving each licensed driver $4,500 would be ballpark 10 trillion dollars.
I R A Darth Aggie on August 2, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Shhh I am sure this statist government will outlaw that type of giving.
/s
CWforFreedom on August 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM
I remember the car I bought my girlfriend/wife. A 1962 Buick Skylark. $60.00 at a rummage sale. Then there was the “work car”, a 1964 Olds Dynamic 88I bought for $10.00. Had no front seat, otherwise it looked great and had 58K miles.Drove it home sitting on a 5 gallon bucket. Then there was the “investment” car I bought. 1965 Buick Wildcat Convertible. Bought it for $125 in November, sold it in March for $450.00.
Jeff from WI on August 2, 2009 at 12:45 PM
We bought a used small car for my daughter when she was in high school. She drove that car for about 10 years. She and her husband decided to buy a new car and they gave it to a single Mom friend. It was not in good shape but it did run.
jeannie on August 2, 2009 at 12:52 PM
This is no more than a continuation of the Cloward-Piven strategy. Use tax dollars to incentivize people to turn in working cars they own debt-free in exchange for a higher priced new car that they now have DEBT on, that they probably can’t afford, that they will default on in a year or so anyway, and when the car is repossessed, then they will have no transportation at all. More chaos. Less lower priced low cars available on the market. Forced destruction of a scrace valuable resource: reliable cheap transportation.
JustTruth101 on August 2, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Let’s see if I get the math right: You’re gonna spend $20-30k so you can get $3.5 – 4.5 k FREE. If that works for ya’, I have a real deal on Genuine American Dollars. Even better than C4C.
For every two dollars you give me, I’ll give you one dollar FREE.
Flying Betsy Ross
Caststeel on August 2, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Mid-90s Chevy small block engines are already hard to come by. Watching them destory good cores or even good engines makes me want to tear up a bit.
Wyznowski on August 2, 2009 at 1:34 PM
That’s why you should never grant monopoly over the use of force.
Libertarian Joseph on August 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM
“Cash for clunkers” A perfect moniker for the Obama Administration.
Nozzle on August 2, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Clarkson doesn’t hate America. If you watch enough of his stuff, not just Top Gear, he ridicules everybody. He’s an equal opportunity riducler…
liquidflorian on August 2, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Ithink this program, highly sucessful, also a fiasco;spells out the current polls.
AnninCA on August 2, 2009 at 3:32 PM
+100
DarkCurrent on August 2, 2009 at 3:32 PM
It would have been so very different, if only Hillary were president. Right?
DarkCurrent on August 2, 2009 at 3:34 PM
I wonder how many pony cars have been lost to this program, that beemer they showed might have been collectible as well.
DFCtomm on August 2, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Hey, Ann, did you happen to read my numbers on this thread at about 1:00 am this morning? I think the program is too successful to be real. I’ll give you the short form. From a WSJ chart, the total sales figure for cars and trucks, both import and domestic, per day on average for the month of June 09 was a little over 34,000 cars (that‘s per day, on average). Another story I linked to reported that the 1 billion was to cover 250,000 transactions. That includes $50 million for admin costs. The govt. claims to have reached that 250,000 in four days, causing the House to authorize an additional 2 billion. Problem is, 250,000 transactions divided by 4 days is about 62,000 transactions! That means the number of people who bought cars in those four days on average DOUBLED the total number of cars sold per day on average just last month. That seems impossible. Also, have you seen some of the “clunkers” being traded in? I know that many that I’ve seen online would get more than the $4,500 the government is offering. You may say, well they could take the 4,500 plus dealer incentives, which would make it better than simply trading it in. True, BUT many dealerships are already doing CRAZY things to push cars off their lot. For instance, at North Freeway Hyundai in Houston, if you buy one of their Sonatas at MSRP, you get one of their 2 door coup sports cars, the Tiburon, for free! Yes, no joke. You still have to pay tax and tags, but that’s only about 1,200. So I’m not even remotely convinced that the money is all gone because of how successful the program was. Go back a page to see all my links and data.
Weight of Glory on August 2, 2009 at 4:03 PM
My local paper stated that the Chevy dealer here sold out of Cobalts in 4 days. They sold 60. It’s unreal…really. This is a rather small town.
dmarie on August 2, 2009 at 4:13 PM
I have no proof, but wait a few months, and see what shakes loose. I believe this program is going to be revealed to have been riddled with fraud.
DFCtomm on August 2, 2009 at 4:15 PM
Up next……..
………… Obamacare!
Seven Percent Solution on August 2, 2009 at 5:14 PM
You forgot the part where the 20K car depreciates 5K the minute you leave the lot or the 30K car depreciates 7 K the minute you drive away.
Then if you borrow the money you spend up to 30K for a 20K-5K=15K car or 40K for a 30K-7K=23K car.
Thats’ why it’s always better to buy a 2-4 year old car you can spend a lot of $ bringing it up to the condition you want it in and still be better off.
But then what do I as an economics and business major know.
My house and 4 cars are paid for and now I get to pay for a Friend of Obamas house that they cannot afford, I cannot see or even verify that they are not trashin.
And I get to buy their neighbor a car they cannot afford and I cannot see or drive.
Perhaps I should have done it the Pinnochio Presidente way and had a rich guy give me a house for 1/2 the price and a 5ook job for my wife that the hospital does not need as they do not replace her when she leaves in return for a place on the hospital board for the rich guy!
God its great to be a Responsible American in America today!
dhunter on August 2, 2009 at 5:19 PM
The economic level of someone getting a great deal by getting only $4,500 as a better deal on a trade, means they drove a piece of garbage,and means they won’t be buying a $30K car to begin with.
Jeff from WI on August 2, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Oh sure they will because the Pinnochio Presidente will pay for it for them. He said so during the campaign, I think!
Remember it was right after he said taxes won’t go up for anyone makin less than 250,000.00 and you get to keep the healthcare you got if you want and he was going to close Guantanamo, end the Iraq war, find BinLaden, slow the rise of the oceans,end that pesky spyin(obviously only on Dems as Sarah will tell ya), cure the common cold….etc.,…etc.
Now isn’t it great to be a responsible American in America today?
dhunter on August 2, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Well, they’ve managed to trash the housing industry, the banking industry, and the auto industry – I wonder what will be next, electronics, clothing or food?
I’m not surprised at the nature of this mess, though. It combines wealth transfer, massive opportunity for fraud, destroying valuable things (during a recession no less)…
The left get just about as far as the idea that encouraging consumption and investment can help an economic slide top or reverse, and then they forget everything else and find the worst possible way to get money moving – screw incentives, they just start shoving money around based on their political polling or ideology.
The CFC progream combines the “breaking windows” theory of economic aid that Bastiat warned about with an encouragement for people to run up more debt.
I think burning the money might actually be more effective.
Either Obama’s administration intend to hurt America, or they are literally the stupidest people who have ever existed.
Merovign on August 2, 2009 at 5:43 PM
They’ve told you! It will be Insurance, Healthcare, and Energy. Then the takeover will almost be complete. Only need to control the food supply.
dhunter on August 2, 2009 at 5:58 PM
We had a ’93 Dodge van we needed to sell and get something that got much better gas mileage just to run around town in. It ran good but looked a little rough, and we probably would have been lucky to get over $2,000 for it. Went to look at a Dodge Caliber, but only had stick shift. There were some Dodge dealers giving an extra $4,500 on certain cars, so that’s what we were looking for. Totally not looking for a PT Cruiser, but that’s what we ended up getting. Color was just what I wanted – I just didn’t want a regular car as I’m a SUV person. List was just over $19,000 and we got $9,000 off plus a $300 cruise control thrown in, so it was too good a deal to pass up.
They said they were just about out of everything, and weren’t going to be able to get any new inventory for over a month. The computer had crashed while we were there, and they couldn’t get any of their deals thru…
About the fraud: We have an older pickup we were going to let our son use for a trade-in, and he was going to give us his newer pickup in a few months when he got a new one. They wouldn’t let him use ours because you have to have proof the car you trade in has been owned by you for one year. So they were crossing all their t’s and dotting all their i’s and were very strict on it all. They were not “killing” the old vehicles until they got the rebate coupon in their hands.
I’m still holding my breath until we get over there in the morning with some papers we couldn’t find. You never know what’s going to happen. But we wouldn’t have gotten a car now if not for this deal. They offered the deal and we took advantage.
silvernana on August 2, 2009 at 7:41 PM
economics 101 for the dips here on HotAir. There is a surplus of cars the program is design to reduce the surplus. Never mind you folks just don’t get it.
jero_jones on August 2, 2009 at 7:44 PM
Awesome you figured out how to screw the taxpayer over and bailout the Unions all in one fell swoop.
Well as for me when I buy a car a house or anything else I will use my own money, and buy anything other than what the Obama administration is throwing taxpayer funds at.
I refuse to spend my hard earned money bailing out Democrat constituents.
Hope you enjoy driving around in the auto you ripped the U.S. taxpayers off for!
dhunter on August 2, 2009 at 7:47 PM
Hey jero, I happen to have a degree in Economics and business admin.
I’m glad you figured out a way to rationalize ripping off your neighbors.
Fact is the car dealers won’t DEAL now because they get more money from the U.S. taxpayer via Obama.
Today Presidentes Treasury Sec. basically said they will have to raise taxes on the middleclass. The dealers could have solved their overstock problem the old fashioned private sector way, by being more ingenious and competitive , but good that you can make yourself feel good about having you and your neighbors bailout the Unions!
Hope you enjoy your ObamaCare until they decide your too old to qualify and just give you a pill!
dhunter on August 2, 2009 at 7:54 PM
Not too far removed from the ethanol racket where food is burned to make a less efficient fuel not particularly gentle on engines designed for gasoline.
Destroying otherwise usable automobiles screws over those upwardly mobile whom can afford the fuel necessary to drive to work yet are unable to afford a an new car or a car loan for a new vehicle at least for the time being. All to make a few ignorant politicians and their dupes feel better about themselves while destroying resources still bearing useful purpose. Turning recycling on its ear solely to please gullible do-gooders.
viking01 on August 2, 2009 at 8:01 PM
They would have to pry my lifeless hands off the wheel of my ’98 Mustang. Bought her new in ’98. She’s pampered now (off the road and covered in the winter). I have a ’95 Dodge Dakota pickup I’ve driven for 7 yrs. It’s in serious need of a tranny and brakes. It’s paid for and I’d rather shell out the $$$ for fixing it before I go into debt for a Government Motors vehicle no matter how good the incentive is.
blr2449 on August 2, 2009 at 8:08 PM
I knew there would be some jerk on here to have something nasty to say about what I wrote. I didn’t “figure out how to screw the taxpayer”. Let me say this slow enough for you to understand – they offered the deal and I took part in it. We paid a lot of taxes over the years, and I might as well take advantage of the offer as anyone else. If you choose not to, fine, but don’t put your self up on a pedestal to judge me. I see you’re ragging on someone else, too. You sound like a real p—k.
silvernana on August 2, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Let me type this real slow for you. Feel free to rationalize your behavior however you need to to be O.K. with it.
Fine by me! Your entitled to your opinion, however I am entitled to mine and in my opinion you screwed over the taxpaying public by playing along with government meddling in private enterprise which always turns out badly and means someone else is going to pay for your good luck and Governments mistakes.
Had you had 1/2 a wit about you, you could have shopped the dealers and gotten probably as good a deal on your own, but congratulations you and the Obama Administration figured a lazy mans way to screw the taxpayers and spread the wealth to the unions.
dhunter on August 2, 2009 at 9:29 PM
As I understand this program…..the clunkers are to be destroyed (smashed flat) after the engine is disabled and only then the engine and crank shaft are salvaged. The engine is supposedly going to China. Any good recycle-able working parts are destroyed. WHAT!!?! Any good junk yard could dismantle and resell these parts…but the Gov’t wants to remove and replace these cars.
Wait until the sheeple wake up with a car payment they can’t make and higher insurance payments – will they then realize that they are deeper in debt. Myself – I am going to drive my 91 Honda Accord until the wheels fall off and love the $0 car payments and the $30/month insurance!!
whatzit2u on August 2, 2009 at 9:37 PM
And a damn bad speller! It’s L O S E R – and I agree with you. And I’m not the one with half a wit. And I’m not wasting any more time responding to a——s!
silvernana on August 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM
You’re right, it’s more “Topsy-Turvy”. It makes the normal folks out to be fools. Just like the housing situation.
We bought our older kid a new car earlier this year …yea I know depreciation, but kids are rough on those tuner cars so we would rather it be unabused. We bought it as a “last years” model from a dealer locally AFTER negotiating it down 14k – yes 14k off the sticker. Could have gotten another 1k off from a dealer in another state. The negotiation involved dealers in many states – all legitimate offers – it’s a bit of phone work/internet research.
Fact is the manufacturers also cut the dealers deals/kickbacks to unload the last years model year once the new ones come out & guess when that starts happening – NOW. But it won’t happen this year. We didn’t need financing but the dealer went lower if we took it because they get a kickback to sell it – even if you pay it off right away. That offer is also off the table because no one is dealing.
Like I said yesterday we were shopping for another car for the other kid yesterday but the deals are gone. Not only do I get to pay for people to buy their cars, and to destroy perfectly good cars (they are not clunkers), but my ability to deal properly in our free market system is gone.
No good comes of this deception. It is not just an homage to the Religion of climate change due to gas mileage. It is meant to further disrupt the normal flow of things – work hard, save money, negotiate, get a car you can afford and keep it in good working order for many years. Value what you earn. New rules: take from the hard workers, Remove the free market, encourage debt in folks who don’t need it (make Dependants) AND make the other taxpayers feel like idiots if they don’t participate in the government’s latest nonsensical plan – they are stealing your money anyway – get some back! Trade a bit of your soul for that government cheese. It’s an insidious plan.
batterup on August 2, 2009 at 10:53 PM
batterup on August 2, 2009 at 10:53 PM
I don’t know all the reasons but suspect it is also to prop up the car manufacturers since the Government is deep into Chrysler and GM now. This way the manufacturer is off the hook for deep discounts thus makes more money at the expense of the taxpayer and ultimately the consumer.
The cars are really more expensive than they would be had the consumer gone directly to hungry dealers and cut their own deals.
This is government at its finest, raising the price and next will be declining quality!
This is what we have to look forward to should Government ever gets its filthy mitts on HealthCare!
The auto companies should have gone into banckruptcy and renegotiated supplies, and Union contracts.
In a Democrat world this could not happen because the Unions could not accept less pay even though the Honda Mfgrs pay almost $30.00 per hour less.
Obama and the Dems propped up Big Union wages screwing the rest of us in the process. I will not buy a government motors car, either Gm or Chrysler and be a party to the takeover of a formerly free country and destruction of free enterprise.
Somewhere in this land there must be some patriots willing to do what is right to keep this country the land of the free. I am not opptomistic right now!
dhunter on August 2, 2009 at 11:10 PM
Ouch! But, yeah, us old farts are gettin’ in his way with our old cars we love to fix and drive. Screw’m.
Sounds like our old former governor of CO, Dick Lamb. He said old folks have a duty to die. Wonderful philosophy. Yeah, we all die, but in due time. Not hurried up by someone else…hold onto your loved ones and your car keys…
Roger Brown on August 3, 2009 at 1:33 AM
It’s a shame we can’t do the same with outmoded political parties that aren’t efficient, are broken and never really have worked. Like the Democratic, Socialist, Marxist and Communist Parties.
Dr. ZhivBlago on August 3, 2009 at 3:31 AM
“Wouldn’t that be…?,” you ask. Did you even bother to pull out your calculator?
$1,000,000,000 / $4,500 = 222,222
Stop it. You’re embarrassing us.
Kralizec on August 3, 2009 at 4:10 AM
I suspect the healthcare package will be the same, underfunded, wasteful and require to allow things to die an early death without intervention.
workingforpigs on August 3, 2009 at 4:27 AM
With Obama Care I’ll plan ahead by praying for a quick painless death, rather than waiting for years and getting turned down for treatment like the Canadia /British Plans
and then I plan for a cheap cremation/ 3lb coffee can non-burial as my wife will not be able to afford to plant me. “Lost at sea” would work fine too.
Jeff from WI on August 3, 2009 at 7:43 AM
This is the true madness of the program: real wealth, real value being destroyed as gov’t policy.
thegreatbeast on August 3, 2009 at 9:36 AM
c4c is so obviously corrupt. People (often lower-income) who participate in this program can only buy a new car. So that saddles them with unreasonable debt when a used car would make much better financial sense. It would also force them into buying a new car during a time when the government is trying desperately to trick us into believing that it’s auto bailouts were a good idea.
The government is using c4c to give GM and Chrysler another bailout without it looking like a bailout.
jollycynic on August 3, 2009 at 10:46 AM
The main purpose of this is payback for the auto labor unions that are in charge of the auto industry. why not just give everyone $4500 and tell the to go buy whatever they want, like a new washer/dryer, food, etc. why give special treatment to the unions.
workingforpigs on August 3, 2009 at 11:11 AM
New cars are only for those wealthy enough to have them.
If they can destroy all of the older ones AND the parts to fix the ones still out there on the road, they can drive the peasants out of their cars and on to buses, bicycles, and feet.
No buses where you live? Move into the city.
Don’t want to live in the city? Die.
Get old and start to have health problems? Die.
Too many people in the cities? License births and mandate abortions for the unlicensed – babies die.
Disagree with liberals? Die in concentration camp.
Die, Die, Die.
Welcome to Orwellian America.
babylonandon on August 3, 2009 at 11:16 AM
Prior to GM and Chrysler filing bankruptcy I supported a tax credit driven incentive to help turn the auto industry around. I still do. To me it’s no different than providing a tax break to the poor in order to buy healthcare (a plan the Republicans support). My only beef with this is that it specifies certian automobiles that qualify and destroys others it deams not worthy. It leaps from an incentive to buy auto’s to a targeted effort to destroy particular auto’s. If this tax credit was open to all to buy any auto and permitted the dealers to donate or sell the used auto’s, then I believe it’s success would be far greater.
MichiganMatt on August 3, 2009 at 11:46 AM
There will always be great support for a gov’t or any other program that takes money from one group of people and gives it to another. Great support by those getting the money of others anyway!
The question is, is it moral? Moral to social engineer and pick winners and losers? This meddling in the free markets will cause all kinds of turmoil.
1)Fewer used cars
2)dealers that won’t deal
3)Cars sold immediately but then not again for years
4)artifically high prices for used and new cars just when kids are going back to school
5) A bigger deficit and higher taxes
Just to name a few.
The free market has mechanisms to correct itself.
The gov’t screws it up to no end. Can you say affirmative action home loans causing Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the housing market to tumble taking much of the U.S. economy with it?
Dealers used to deal to control excess inventory. Now they won’t!
See the post above where the individual was offered 14,000 off from several dealers. Those days are gone if the goverment sticks its mitts in and that is a big reason they are doing it to protect their investment in Chrysler, GM and the over priced labor unions that run them now!
We will all pay dearly for this social engineering and Government meeddling. You only need to l;ook to Deomcrat stronghold cities and states to see how this kind of government meddling works! It doesn’t! They are far worse off than their Republican free enterprise neighbors!
Higher unemployment, higher taxes, higher crime and higher living costs are the results of Government meddling in the free enterprise system.
Too bad when John McCain suspended his stupid campaign he didn’t use the microphone that was his, to extoll these principles instead of signing onto the biggest rippoff of the U.S. taxpayer ever.
He opened the door for an all out assualt on free enterprise that we are experiencing now.
dhunter on August 3, 2009 at 3:24 PM
I see Fox News is finally publicizing this story. It should be an outrage to all of us that a 2004 car that runs fine is destroyed in the name of environmental wachoism and false economy. It is destroying wealth. Just like Obama Care will destroy health and Cap & Tax will destroy the country.
Christian Conservative on August 3, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Hey, if she voted for Obama she has it coming!
Sign of the Dollar on August 3, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Seeing that Volvo fried made me sad. The fact that it made noises like a dying animal didn’t help either. :-(
Rightwingguy on August 3, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Volvo not withstanding, how many people in the U.S., Mexico or Canada would have loved to own that car? But no, our leaders will destroy it for the COMMON GOOD. And assuming that every car that is replaced with a new one, what is the cost of energy (oops, carbon footprint) to make a new car vs. use an existing one that gets slightly less gas mileage.
We’re turning into a nation of crazies.
Christian Conservative on August 3, 2009 at 7:41 PM
And it’s all for a hoax!
Christian Conservative on August 3, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Quick note: C4C, at 1/750 of what Porkulus is costing us, did sell 250,000 more cars.
DngrMse on August 3, 2009 at 8:43 PM
Did it? How many of those people would have bought anyway? At what cost?
Celebrate that that with those that were hoping buy something affordable on a low wage. Large amounts of driveable used vehicles taken out of the market. Nice job.
CWforFreedom on August 3, 2009 at 9:35 PM
A brilliant observation, KTC!
I haven’t read all the comments, but one point:
I think it was Peter Drucker who pointed out that used cars are a very benign form of welfare. Anyone with a bit of mechanical skill can keep a good used car running, at small cost compared with the price of a new one. The well-to-do take the hit for the initial price, and the poor benefit with the hand-me-downs.
The whacko liberals who created this insane program are therefore working against the very people they are supposed to be helping.
All in the name of a sacrifice to the God of Global Warming.
MrLynn on August 3, 2009 at 9:38 PM
dhunter on August 3, 2009 at 11:19 PM
Seems this is that corporate welfare the Libs used to hate
CWforFreedom on August 3, 2009 at 11:49 PM
Ok I went to my Honda dealership, still mulling w/my husband about this program. Best-dealer-A+ smart ppl there.
1-If they see that the trade-in value of the vehicle, they will not do C4C and go for the trade-in (at least from what we got from the salesman).
2-Hehe, he saw my car and his face was like “Hell no way that is a C4C (loaded to the max like that Volvo). Don’t think he was gonna allow that to happen (Honda ppl know usually we get Hondas again). Loved the wood-trim on my vehicle, my long trips and of course we get 23-24 mpg on it. Regardless, we own a huge dog that takes a whole seat, we haul wood and last trip was loaded w/8 ppl mostly teenagers playing DS while watching DVD.
3-He said they do take 1+ hrs to process each C4C, system problems and they have not been refunded squat on that program. That aside from loads of ppwk they have to submit. Did not seem to get a good idea of when they will be reimbursed.
4-Not many C4C’s in back (we sneaked on two different dealers, one Chrysler and the Honda)-Honda had less in back. I laughed at one pickup truck, same brand and model as my FIL’s. He’s a lib so I will make sure to let him know about this! There was one Caddy, looks like it was redone, bodywork, paint, nice white top, metal blue color, late 70s which I love. Guess 8 cylinder. But it seems they put in more than $1K on it. Dunno about engine of course. Clean and shiny as it was just out of the detailers. I know this b/c for my first car, about same year, top was redone, bodywork, went to junker to get couple of new parts, 2-tone vynil/fabric seats, the works. Men went nuts over it, and I got a flyer from a car dealership to pls trade it in. :D
5-I believe that my Honda dealership is doing things right, that if they see value is more than C4C they will push for regular trade-in.
6-Cool to see a clunker held its trunk inback by elastic hooks usually for luggage; WITH AN O BUMPER STICKER!! I so wanted to holler at him to trade in his clunker, would have sent him nuclear w/my Sarah! bumper sticker. I saw another car today, brave of course, with a “Hillary for President” from the past primary. Had to explain to my husband why I said that that was a brave PUMA in front of us.
ProudPalinFan on August 4, 2009 at 12:00 AM
At first my husband thought that Volvo was gonna be broken for parts. Then he saw vid of squashed cars. That he did not expect; when we dated he had a loaned black Volvo.
He fired at me many q’s, about why dude that claimed Volvo was in excellent condition did not film the back of it, around, inside of it, just the front being fried and oil spittin’ at the bottom while they were putting the fire out.If there’s another sad clunker that does not look like it please make sure film everything then put that seizure crap on it. Because it leads to believe that the car was lemon-type and engine sucked.
ProudPalinFan on August 4, 2009 at 12:07 AM
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