Poll: 28% of Republicans don’t believe Obama was born in America? Update: Skeptics mostly southern

posted at 12:05 pm on July 31, 2009 by Allahpundit

On the one hand, the poll was sponsored by … Daily Kos. On the other hand, Research 2000 is a reputable pollster as far as I know and the way they posed the question wasn’t slanted.

The survey of American adults asked, “Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?” It found that 77% of Americans answer affirmatively, 11% say “no,” with the balance unsure.

Notably, that 11% closely tracks the — extremely stable — share of the electorate that thought Obama was a Muslim, bolstering the notion that there’s a certain share of the party’s base (and this may well hold for both parties) that isn’t about to let facts get in the way of negative views of a president of the opposite party…

With nearly a third of Republicans believing the theory, you can see why Republican politicians are inclined to treat it with some respect.

Party-line breakdowns: Dems 93/4/3 (the last figure is “don’t know”), Indies 83/8/9, and GOP … 42/28/30. Fully 58 percent of Republicans aren’t willing to accept a state-issued Certification of Live Birth as proof that The One was born in Honolulu? I’m skeptical, but, er, not so skeptical that I’m willing to poll this myself at HA. Sounds like a job for Scott Rasmussen. How about it, Scottster?

Update: Voinovich 1, Vitter 0.

Only 47 percent of Southern respondents believe Obama was born in the USA. By contrast, 93 percent of Northeasterns said yes, he was born here, 90 percent of Midwesterners did and 87 percent of Westerners.

Wow.


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Every birthplace of a president is marked with a commemorative plaque. Tell me the exact spot where Obama’s birth plaque will be placed.
NightmareOnKStreet on July 31, 2009 at 8:49 PM

Only 47 percent of Southern respondents believe Obama was born in the USA. By contrast, 93 percent of Northeasterns said yes, he was born here, 90 percent of Midwesterners did and 87 percent of Westerners.

Virginians are just ticked because Nairobi, Kenya can now claim to be The Birthplace of Presidents.

ChrisB on August 1, 2009 at 10:23 AM

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 10:44 AM

FIRST!

Bishop on August 1, 2009 at 10:07 AM

+100,000

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 10:47 AM

40% of New Yorkers still have nightmares about the “squeal like a pig” scene in Deliverance.

60% want to be Bobby.

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 10:48 AM

lol! Lemme me tell ya, if something really seriously bad ever goes down, Bubba with the southern twang and double-action shotgun is who I want next to me…

RepubChica on August 1, 2009 at 10:53 AM

Damn. I’m STILL a proud “birther”.

And, I’m a Minnesotan. Go figure.

One more time: Show us the long form.

13Girl on August 1, 2009 at 10:56 AM

HotAir’s business model, in contrast, thrives by belittling Birthers.

ChrisB on August 1, 2009 at 10:42 AM

HotAir’s business model, in contrast, thrives by belittling, modus operandi from the top down and the bottom up.

Spend years debating ideas eloquently, persisting despite verbal vandals, until the visitors either leave or retaliate in kind to excise the parasitic attack from progressives.

HotAir is not a “conservative” blog. It is progressive populist posing as right-of-center, using conservatives for bulk fresh meat in the quest for power and influence.

ONCE, Malkin and HotAir participated in the conservative galvanization of citizens fighting amnesty for illegal aliens.

That very issue is within the HR 3200 AAHCA of 2009, aka ObamaCare. Democrats vetoed the effort to cut provisions to non-citizens.

Where is the headline outcry of “HotAir” spent? Attacking supporters of Palin and those who repudiate Obama for lacking the honor of legitimacy and denying America the transparency he ran on. Reminding us all that visiting contributors to HotAir are not “HotAir” because “HotAir” is only Malkin, Allahpundit and Morrissey, “period.” Allahpundit forgot to include Alinsky in his “who’s who”.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 10:48 AM

40% of New Yorkers still have nightmares about the “squeal like a pig” scene in Deliverance.

You caught Drudge’s link to the British socialized medical finding that 50% of the children given the swine flu vaccine suffered horrible nightmares and illness.

CDC was embarrassed by the lack of numbers dying from the swine flu. Napolitano is disappointed, but like Obama, persistent. The CDC is not advancing the findings from the British medical community, but recommending and requiring the swine flu vaccination on our youngest segment of the population.

I understand from flu viral research specialists that only 3% of deaths occurring from flu-like symptoms are from an actual flu virus, any flu virus; but rather from similar viruses.

Anyway, viral research spent on anti-virals rather than viral vaccines provides substantially better public benefit, if good health were the motivation behind the allocation of funds.

So what’s the NY%/population that believes the swine flu pandemic threat, just as they did the bird flu pandemic threat?

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Nov.4, 2008

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Well, who wants to deal with reality when there’s hope (of the undefined, unfounded variety) to be had?

jazz_piano on August 1, 2009 at 11:22 AM

I have friends that are convinced he wasn’t born in America. I believe he was, but I’m with Lou Dobbs. Why not just release a “real” birth certificate? It does leave room for doubt.

Ordinary1 on July 31, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Because it’s a good weapon to use against your opponent. If you can convince people that your opposition is dumb and crazy it’s all the easier to push through horrible legislation such as healthcare and cap and trade. Why would you murder someone who is committing suicide?

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 12:04 PM

elgeneralisimo:

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your taking the time to highlight the common law reference. Here is an analysis of U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark that takes issue with the quality of the opinion:

http://federalistblog.us/2006/12/us_v_wong_kim_ark_can_never_be_considered.html

From my various readings, I believe that in matters of citizenship, the Founders were influenced more by Vattel’s “Law of Nations” than by Blackstone and common law. In reading through U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, it seems that “native-born citizen” and “natural-born citizen” treated as the same thing, which for Vattel at least were not the same thing. However, I recognize that as far as SCOTUS cases are concerned, if there’s no cite, it’s irrelevant.

Thanks again for your clarification. If you have any info about later cases that impact U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, or how Perkins v. Elg fits in, I’d be interested to see it.

JackOkie on August 1, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Because it’s a good weapon to use against your opponent. If you can convince people that your opposition is dumb and crazy it’s all the easier to push through horrible legislation such as healthcare and cap and trade. Why would you murder someone who is committing suicide?

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 12:04 PM

I don’t buy that. When you have a ‘charismatic leader’ such as jugears, it is important that they maintain an auora of infallibility. They want the masses swooning over their choice of beer. Obama and his minions have painted a ‘messiah like’ picture of him – Literally. How many photographers had to become contortionists in order to get a photo of him and a seal in the background that looked like a flippin halo??

What happens is that a lot of people have unquestioning loyalty. Once any cracks in his armor start, the whole thing will start to unravel.

Let’s liken it to a woman married to some philanderer. Once she starts finding other women’s underwear in the backseat of their car, she will start to question his veracity.
Same thing here. A lot of the Frankfort School indoctrinated people are just too intellectually challenged to understand Cr*p and trade, the impact of health care, the four trillion dollar debacle. However, they might start to understand “He why don’t dat guy showz hiz certificate. I haz to do show id for everytin I does.”…

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 12:31 PM

that 50% of the children given the swine flu vaccine suffered horrible nightmares and illness.

Somebody must have slipped that to me. I keep having nightmares that we elected a president who releases terrorists, spends us into oblivion and makes us all eat ACRORNs..

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Errrr, I right-reckon that B. Hussein is an A-rab from Africa. Yup, an a-rab. Now where’s Tammy, the nascar is gonna start soon and the re-mote is gone. I’m gonna have to go over to the trailer next door and watch it with Vern.

#3 4eva.

simplesimon on August 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Actually, I’m not surprised that most doubters are Southern. I’d wager that most moon-landing deniers are also from the South. Our culture has an innate distrust in government that is generally healthy, but occasionally manifests itself in unhelpful ways.

Example: During the Revolutionary period, Patrick Henry was an almost legendary figure in Virginia. His role in history books is more limited, because he refused to participate in the creation of a new national tyranny to replace the English model.
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/related/henry.htm

hawksruleva on August 1, 2009 at 12:50 PM

Actually, I’m not surprised that most doubters are Southern. I’d wager that most moon-landing deniers are also from the South. Our culture has an innate distrust in government that is generally healthy, but occasionally manifests itself in unhelpful ways.

hawksruleva on August 1, 2009

I am not sure it is unhealthy. To whom do the Birthers really matter?

Liberals already back Barry, so it is not like the Birther movement can cause them to vote more than once (unless they are ACORN members, but they can vote numerous times already).

Conservatives oppose Barry, for legitimate reasons unrelated to Barry’s birth certificate. The Birthers are irrelevant to conservatives. And if the Bithers join conservatives in opposing Barry for their own reasons, then so much the better.

Independents and moderates increasingly oppose Barry for economic, national debt, and job insecurity reasons. And while these swing voters might think the Birthers are a bunch of loons, it seems unlikely that swing they will ignore their own and the nation’s shaky economy and rally behind Barry just because the Birthers question whether Barry was born in Hawaii, no matter how much the MSM tries to make the Birthers the symbol of the GOP.

ChrisB on August 1, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Because it’s a good weapon to use against your opponent. If you can convince people that your opposition is dumb and crazy it’s all the easier to push through horrible legislation such as healthcare and cap and trade.

Ah, so if I understand correctly, it’s the “birthers” fault that horrible legislation is making it through an evil and corrupt Democrat controlled Congress that avoids subpoenas. Did I get that right?

So if it weren’t for the “birthers” I’m guessing the Pork = U Less wouldn’t have passed and that Republicans wouldn’t be shut out of every piece of legislation snaking its way through the slimy halls of congress. Republicans and Democrats would be working to enforce the law, curb spending, staying within constitution powers granted to them and end every session with a round of prayer and a chorus of Kumbaah?

katablog.com on August 1, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Errrr, I right-reckon that B. Hussein is an A-rab from Africa. Yup, an a-rab. Now where’s Tammy, the nascar is gonna start soon and the re-mote is gone. I’m gonna have to go over to the trailer next door and watch it with Vern.

#3 4eva.

simplesimon on August 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Ya better bring yer own beer this time………….

doriangrey on August 1, 2009 at 1:14 PM

What’s worse is that 0% knows for sure where Obama was born.

MrX on August 1, 2009 at 1:25 PM

This is all I have to say about that: ( in re Gump )

The information in the certification may be identical as far as it goes to what’s in the complete state records, but there are evidently many more details in the state records than are set forth in the certification.

Contrary to the editors’ description, those who want to see the full state record — the certificate or the so-called “vault copy” — are not on a wild-goose chase for a “secondary document cloaked in darkness.” That confuses their motives (which vary) with what they’ve actually requested (which is entirely reasonable).

Regardless of why people may want to see the vault copy, what’s been requested is a primary document that is materially more detailed than what Obama has thus far provided

Janos Hunyadi on August 1, 2009 at 1:26 PM

Janos Hunyadi on August 1, 2009 at 1:26 PM

The Democrats who have run Hawai’i since the 1960s have a vested interest in making people believe O’bama was born in the state. Because if it comes out that he wasn’t, their state and hence their political power will be ruined.

In addition, the state has been using his status as a tourist attraction, something they urgently need with tourism down 20% over the past year.

And yes, I know that it was the state’s puppet Rethuglican Governor who sealed his records. She did as she was told.

Del Dolemonte on August 1, 2009 at 1:38 PM

Okay, Del, everything in my post is cut & pasted from the NRO article listed on the HotAir blog home page.

The point of those paragraphs I quoted, as I understand it, is that those who want to see the CERTIFICATE rather than just the state CERTIFICATION are “entirely reasonable”

Janos Hunyadi on August 1, 2009 at 1:54 PM

Janos Hunyadi on August 1, 2009 at 1:26 PM

I and a number of others have been saying this all along. And we’ve been called nothing but names, had what we said lied about, and basically ridiculed in every thread.

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 2:09 PM

Given the fact Hawaii issues birth certificates to people not born there anyone who uses the term birthers to describe those who ask for production of the long form birth certificate are morons. We want to see if it has the signature of a doctor or midwife. There’s no reason to believe a simple lack of eligibility would deter The Supreme Narcissist. Anyone who takes him at his word is naive.

Inform yourself clueless obfuskers:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=2697

Basilsbest on August 1, 2009 at 2:13 PM

Ah, so if I understand correctly, it’s the “birthers” fault that horrible legislation is making it through an evil and corrupt Democrat controlled Congress that avoids subpoenas. Did I get that right?

Clearly you don’t understand. I’m saying that it’s easy for Obama to marginalize his opposition if he can lump them in with a bunch conspracy theorists. I know there were many crazy conspiracies about Bush but the press ignored them; something they won’t do with the birthers.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Clearly you don’t understand. I’m saying that it’s easy for Obama to marginalize his opposition if he can lump them in with a bunch conspracy theorists. I know there were many crazy conspiracies about Bush but the press ignored them; something they won’t do with the birthers.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 2:28 PM

You may be wrong on this. A lot of people might start thinking “where there is smoke…”…and “Why doesn’t he just show his birth certificate”

That video of the town hall in delaware is an example. A republican congressman poo pooed the question when the woman asked about obama’s credentials. I’m willing to bet that the good congressman probably has given more thought to his golf score or his picks in the baseball pool than he has to Obama’s legitimacy. A lot of people assume that elected officials are somehow smarter or better informed than the average citizen. That isn’t true

So, if the congrescritters, especially those in the house, start hearing enough from their constituents, maybe some will call for a panel. THE SAME TYPE OF PANEL CONVENED TO INVESTIGATE JOHN MCCAIN”S CREDENTIALS..

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 2:39 PM

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 2:09 PM

Yes, there is clearly a media dynamic at work, similar to “I can see Russia from my house!”–where the media simply lie and then cover the lie as an ‘important news story’ to create another Faux Truth that our pop culture is saturated with.

So if you raise this issue–even ask to see the original certificate–you are derided, etc. I understand that as a typical Alinsky tactic.

What interests me about this debate is the large number of apparently conservative anti-Obama people who so vociferously attack any mention of doubt about Obama being qualified for office: So much Heat, so little Light

I assume they’re worried about all conservative being discredited, but this is not anything like 9/11 or not believing the Moon landings. I don’t know what to think or who to believe–and it’s not true ) of me ) that if the actual birth certificate is shown to the public I won’t believe that because I’m nuts and I won’t believe anything

Obama is a deliberately-created mystery, and I want that mystery investigated and his Dark Secrets revealed. I want this because I think that he is literally a House of Cards, a compilation of lies and fraud ( including the outright fabrications in his creepy autobiographies, such as lying about his first job ).

Janos Hunyadi on August 1, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Clearly you don’t understand. I’m saying that it’s easy for Obama to marginalize his opposition if he can lump them in with a bunch conspracy theorists. I know there were many crazy conspiracies about Bush but the press ignored them; something they won’t do with the birthers.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009

And the solution is what…sit on our hands with our mouths taped shut? I don’t support the birther issue because I know the supreme court is too gutless to touch it, so it goes nowhere. But if we make our decisions based on what the media will say about us, well…wouldn’t we be equally as gutless?
Personally, I’m for attacking the big-eared freak from every conceivable angle and every hour of the day. Keeping him off balance will result in more accidental truth leaking out of one side of his mouth or the other when TOTUS isn’t around to guide his lies. It also weakens his air of invincibility and shows the cracks in the armor that, until now, have been polished over and masked by Dapp armor crack caulk.

SKYFOX on August 1, 2009 at 2:44 PM

Janos Hunyadi on August 1, 2009 at 2:42 PM

I think it has to do more with group dynamics and cowardice, e.g., if they join the others in ridiculing people, then they won’t be ridiculed themselves.

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 3:02 PM

SKYFOX on August 1, 2009 at 2:44 PM

A couple years into my civilian career with the navy, I was in a program that was a complete train wreck. Things were a total mess, not due to the people in the program, but the way some people gamed the system and ‘local optimization” by other departments.

Anyway, they sent in a hard driving commander after they fired the previous commander and sent the civilian to the dungeions. The new guy started attacking the workers unmercifully. He would send out 3 or 4 ‘deriliction of duty’ memos a day. It came to a head when his Lt. came to me and made a remark about my team leader. Everyone in the room got quite expecting a fistfight when I responded.

Anyway, I laid into the Lieutenant explaining what was happening. He turned away and said he’d get back to me. Later that afternoon, the Cdr called me and my team leader in. We explained what we saw as the problem. He didn’t say much in reply.

What I did see was something I won’t forget. He started going around the building verifying everything we said to him. He called other’s from the program in and basically checked their stories against ours. Within two days, the attitude did a 180. Instead of ‘deriliction of duty’ memos going to the program personnell, the fire and brimstone was directed outwards.

In other words, the cdr was a really bright guy but he believed the crud he had been told when he took over the program. Once we shed a little light on it, he verified and factchecked things for himself.

Let’s put it this way, about a week later I was mentioning to a coworker that the training department had rejected payment for a master’s class I was taking. the CDR was walking by and heard. He grabbed the form out of my hand and said “I’ll be right back”. About 5 minutes later he returned with the form signed and approved and said “Nobody screws with my people”..

So. I think that out of the over 400 congrescritters, there are some smart but not fully informed ones out there similar to our old Commander. They can dig where we can’t.

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Clearly you don’t understand. I’m saying that it’s easy for Obama to marginalize his opposition if he can lump them in with a bunch conspracy theorists. I know there were many crazy conspiracies about Bush but the press ignored them; something they won’t do with the birthers.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009

The same could be said about any distortion Obama or the Democrats come up with. Sure there are a few who are floating theories (which in the absence of information is always a temptation), but I believe the vast majority of those of us raising the issue are complaining that we DON’T know what as American citizens we are entitled to know. Since the news media was too busy with tingles up their leg to vet Obama, we’re having to do it now. We don’t trust the weak and contradictory documentation provided about his birth certificate, and we certainly don’t like the curtain of secrecy drawn around a host of matters relating to Obama’s background (see justincase’ outstanding work on this and other threads). The only conspiracy of which I’m aware is the one to smear those asking legitimate questions as loonies and conspiracy nutcases.

I can’t see where worrying about what the media thinks of conservatives ever got us anywhere but debacles like the McCain campaign. The questions are legitimate. If we keep demanding answers enough people will realize it and join the documenters.

JackOkie on August 1, 2009 at 3:10 PM

bullseye:

Working for a boss like that is a pearl beyond price. Thanks for the history.

JackOkie on August 1, 2009 at 3:15 PM

Clearly you don’t understand. I’m saying that it’s easy for Obama to marginalize his opposition if he can lump them in with a bunch conspracy theorists. Ann NY on August 1, 2009

What you don’t get is that there is a conspiracy of The MSM to protect Obama and not examine his background, among other things. Look at their treatment of Obama as compared with Palin. Anyone who is afraid to demand production of Obama’s Long Form Birth Certificate is a coward and playing into the hands of the cretins who run the MSM.

It’s perfectly reasonable and logical to demand production of the original documentation and no amount of stupid name calling from stupid superficial people will persuade me otherwise.

You have a very low opinion of the American public if you think they will necessarily look with approval upon people who engage in name calling of those of us whose craziness is to demand the exercise of due diligence. The exercise of due diligence would have prevented the financial crisis now facing America. The obfuskers can shove it.

Basilsbest on August 1, 2009 at 4:07 PM

JackOkie on August 1, 2009 at 3:10 PM

I’m pretty sure that slavish devotion to the media was just about at the bottom of the McCain campaign’s list. I know because he pretty much told off a Time interviewer mid-season as he started to realize the media was handing Obama the election.

Basilsbest on August 1, 2009 at 4:07 PM

A conspiracy of the MSM?

I think the simpler explanation is the ideology that permeates the journalistic business.

Black Yoshi on August 1, 2009 at 4:20 PM

I’m saying that it’s easy for Obama to marginalize his opposition if he can lump them in with a bunch conspracy theorists. I know there were many crazy conspiracies about Bush but the press ignored them; something they won’t do with the birthers.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Ah, got it. “You guys shut up because the MSM and the Obama Thugery Team is at work and like the GM Senior Creditors, they will make mince meat of you”. I suppose you also want all the Tea Parties to stop too since both the MSM and OTT have also attempted to make them look stupid.

Wow, nothing like sticking up for what is right, freedom of speech (oops, that’s just another stupid provision in the unimportant Constitution) and stuff like that.

Hmmm, remind me again, where did that “never question your leaders” mentality come from?

katablog.com on August 1, 2009 at 4:23 PM

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 10:08 AM

Do you have a link for that, by any chance? When I was looking for the source for various claims I got as far as an Israeli Insider page which gave as its reference a link to a Google search. Apparently at the time the story was readily found on Google. But all that’s there now is references back to this page that references Google. Impossible to find who the original source was.

So anyway, if you have a link or some other information I could use to find what you saw I’d greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

justincase on August 1, 2009 at 4:50 PM

elgeneralisimo on August 1, 2009 at 10:11 AM

And Obama was born in allegiance to the Queen.

justincase on August 1, 2009 at 4:52 PM

Obama is a deceiver, a dissembler
His Mom trousers are alight
From what poll or banner
Shall they dangle in the night?

What infernal serpent
Has lent him his forked tongue?
From what pit of foul deceit
Has all his hiding sprung?

What red devil of mendacity
Grips his empty soul with such tenacity?
Will not one he so cruelly showers with lies
Put a court order between his eyes?

PercyB on August 1, 2009 at 5:04 PM

The Force of Reason lays out why Barry Soetoro is not a US Natural Born citizen;

“The fact of the matter is that he relinquished any American citizenship he might have had, or, in all fairness to Obama, his degenerate mother whored it away for a long trip to the Third World, if you have any idea how Mohammedan ‘marriage’ works. He is not an American citizen. No such thing as “Indonesian dual citizenship” existed during the entirety of his time in Indonesia, and, as you noted, he could not have attended public schools were he not a full citizen (the only kind at the time) of Indonesia.

Furthermore, he could not have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an American passport*. It was not the case that Americans were “advised” not to travel to Pakistan. They were not allowed to at all in 1981. It is simply not possible for anyone sans special diplomatic status and accompanying passport to have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an American passport.

This is why he won’t give up his college records or anything else.”
This is current list that is sealed from the publics view:
Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released
Certification of Live Birth — Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released
Fransiskus Assisi School application — Released
Punahou School records — Not released
Selective Service Registration — Counterfeit
Occidental College records — Not released
Passport records for 1981 Pakistan trip — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None (maybe 1, unsigned?)
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

Seems to me there should be an investigation into Voter Fraud sooner rather than later. Barry Soetoro is not who he says he is.

ScottyDog on August 1, 2009 at 5:05 PM

I know there were many crazy conspiracies about Bush but the press ignored them;

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Do you mean the National Guard stories and the Bush lied, people died stories?

Johan Klaus on August 1, 2009 at 5:09 PM

I know there were many crazy conspiracies about Bush but the press ignored them; something they won’t do with the birthers.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Thanks for the laugh. You’re wrong of course.

Let’s look at the “crazy conspiracies about Bush” and how the press “ignored them”.

1. Immediately after winning the election, the media that endorsed Gore rushed doewn to Florida to recount the balleots themselves. No way they would have done that if the result had turned out the other way.

2. After the 9/11 attacks, many in the media hatched a conspiracy that the attacks were an excuse for Bush to burn the Constitution.

“September 11, 2001, played into neoconservative hands exactly as the 1933 Reichstag fire played into Hitler’s hands. Fear, hysteria, and national emergency are proven tools of political power grabs. Now that the federal courts are beginning to show some resistance to Bush’s claims of power, will another terrorist attack allow the Bush administration to complete its coup?”
– Former Reagan administration official and Wall Street Journal and National Review assistant editor Paul Craig Roberts, Jan. 2, 2006

“The 9-11 attacks provided the rationale for what amounts to a Bush family coup against the Constitution.”
– James Ridgeway, The Village Voice, Dec. 30, 2005

3. The media bought into the conspiracy that Bush planned to go to war with Iraq before 9/11.

“Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography. ‘He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,’ said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. ‘It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’. . . ”
– Russ Baker, GNN, Oct. 28, 2004

4. Many in the media also bought into the conspiracy theory that Bush was in cahoots with Britain to fake info about Iraq’s WMDs.

“Never in our wildest dreams did we think we would see those words in black and white…and beneath a SECRET stamp, no less. For three years now, we in Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) have been saying that the CIA and its British counterpart, MI-6, were ordered by their countries’ leaders to “fix facts” to “justify” an unprovoked war on Iraq. More often than not, we have been greeted with stares of incredulity. It has been a hard learning . . . that folks tend to believe what they want to believe. . . Thanks to an unauthorized disclosure by a courageous whistleblower, the evidence now leaps from official documents . . . this time authentic, not forged. . . ”
– Veteran CIA analyst Ray McGovern, referring to the July 2002 Downing Street Memo, TomPaine.com, May 4, 2005

5. Many in the media reported that Bush knew about 9/11 in advance.

“By the time a CIA briefer gave President Bush the Aug. 6, 2001, President’s Daily Brief headlined ‘Bin Laden Determined To Strike in US,’ the president had seen a stream of alarming reports on al Qaeda’s intentions. . . In April and May 2001, for example, the intelligence community headlined some of those reports ‘Bin Laden planning multiple operations,’ ‘Bin Laden network’s plans advancing’ and ‘Bin Laden threats are real.’”
– The Washington Post, April 13, 2004

6. The media bought into the conspiracy that Bush manipulated the media to disseminate propaganda. Too many examples to cite here.

7. Many in the media reported that Bush conspired to steal the 2004 election.

And I am just getting started….

Del Dolemonte on August 1, 2009 at 5:56 PM

Barry Soetoro is not who he says he is.

ScottyDog on August 1, 2009 at 5:05 PM

See Obama’s moon slink down in the sky
Every dream he has spun is a lie
Here’s the one bitter lesson of Obama’s history
His soul should no longer remain a mystery
His many faces change
What you thought you knew grows ever more strange
And he has so many faces
His real self erases
With all those lies dancing in his empty eyes!

PercyB on August 1, 2009 at 6:12 PM

Will someone explain to me how this hurts conservatives other than have us backbiting each other? Need we be reminded of the nutjobs that said 9/11 was an inside job, and that Bush lied people died won the last election? The jackass Democrats (a double entendre) believed about every loony conspiracy possible as they now have a supermajority in the Senate.

This poll is meant to do one thing only, to drive a wedge in the Republican party and have us pointing fingers at each other. Forget responding to every stupid poll, consider the source, and let’s quit getting off of point. We have bigger fish to fry than each other.

itsspideyman on August 1, 2009 at 6:19 PM

Del Dolemonte on August 1, 2009 at 5:56 PM

OK, first and foremost, maybe I wasn’t clear but what I meant was the press ignored the fact that the conspiracy peddlers were crazy and they didn’t give a lot of press time to them. But as you point out the crazies were out and about during 2000 with the stolen election garbage and again in 2004 with Ohio and also that Bush lied (how can I forget all that??), so I’m wrong on that part (they did ignore the truthers). The press didn’t play up on the kookiness of the people though and treated them as if they were mainstream; something that they won’t do with people who believe Obama isn’t an American. I’m not even sure it shouldn’t be pursued; I’m just saying watch out it could backfire – pick carefully what you want to attack him on, remember the lessons learned from the Clinton years….

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 6:32 PM

A conspiracy of the MSM? I think the simpler explanation is the ideology that permeates the journalistic business.
Black Yoshi on August 1, 2009 at 4:20 PM

Yes, a conspiracy. See ScottyDog on August 1, 2009 at 5:05 PM

And it’s virtually an airtight conspiracy and has many Republican supporters who are scared to death that they will be ridiculed and ruined if they break ranks by suggesting that the place of Obama’s birth is unknown.

So, like the two here, they throw around idiotic terms like birther as if the demand for production of Obama’s Long Form Birth Certificate can equated to the insane accusation that Bush conspired with al Qaeda to attack America. And did so while Governor of Texas, since we know the planning for 9/11 took place years before the attack.

Anyone who uses the term birther to describe those who demand due diligence is a moron.

Basilsbest on August 1, 2009 at 6:39 PM

I’m not even sure it shouldn’t be pursued;

Get off the fence Ann and start attacking those who use idiotic terms like birther to describe people who want to know the truth. I have no more idea than Good Lt where Obama was born. Unlike him I want to know the truth. Show me the LFBC.

Basilsbest on August 1, 2009 at 6:43 PM

Allahpundit forgot to include Alinsky in his “who’s who”.

maverick muse on August 1, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Kos already notified him on that when they were working on ‘shopping a revised Obama Birth Certificate

econavenger on August 1, 2009 at 7:00 PM

I still do not understand what the harm is about asking for a legitimate Birth Certificate and maybe even his college transcripts. The left wanted to know how much Boooosh drank in college. We haven’t asked how many drugs Barry “experimented” with in college, have we? If there is nothing to hide, quit hiding it.

kingsjester on August 1, 2009 at 7:05 PM

Help please.
Can someone link to Allahpundit declaring (if he dared) that Mark Steyn is a ‘Nirther?
I love it when AP smashes his own face bloody. More please.

Stephen M on August 1, 2009 at 7:11 PM

Meant to say gates, not gibbs

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 7:13 PM

I’m just saying watch out it could backfire – pick carefully what you want to attack him on, remember the lessons learned from the Clinton years….

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 6:32 PM

What exactly did we learn from the Clinton Years other than the press and democraps will cover for a guy who lies under oath to evade responsibility for a sexual harrassment charge. (oh, and the bodies piled up pretty fast. Don’t ever buy a house from the clintons or you might find the spirits of Ron Brown, The guy in fart marcy park etc in the basement).

The tinlgly legs will have one heck of a dilemma if this heats up. Yes, they will try ridicule but every time they do that, they bring the issue up and legitimize it to some people.

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM

What exactly did we learn from the Clinton Years other than the press and democraps will cover for a guy who lies under oath to evade responsibility for a sexual harrassment charge.

We learned that the public will succumb to scandal fatigue and you should be careful which scandals you want to expose. Even though the Monica Lewinsky scandal seemed like a slam dunk it was the worst one to concentrate on – Clinton was able to turn it into something it wasn’t. The Chinese campaign contributions would have been a much better scandal to investigate as well as the FBI files.

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 7:32 PM

Help please.
Can someone link to Allahpundit declaring (if he dared) that Mark Steyn is a ‘Nirther?
I love it when AP smashes his own face bloody. More please.

Stephen M on August 1, 2009 at 7:11 PM

I’ve studied the minds of beta males in the wild. In order for them to survive day to day to continue to forage for the less nourishing easy newsbits left on the ground of the digital forest, they will block out the very concept of alpha male competition from their short-term memory. it’s fascinating leading edge research. They seem to recall that the other males existed at one time, but a direct clash with such an alpha male is almost unheard of once the subject accepts the lower-rung status. Almost all interaction is with other beta males and females.

econavenger on August 1, 2009 at 7:46 PM

To those who say that we have bigger fish to fry and/or this birth certificate thing is frivolous:

Al Capone was put away because of tax evasion.

It’s basic war strategy — get your enemy any way you can.

Of course, his being inelegible is not frivolous at all, it’s the very foundation of trust in any POTUS. If a POTUS is not qualified, what kind of foundation is that?

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on August 1, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Due Dilligencers???

Bullseye. Due Diligencers vs Obfusking Bleifers.

Basilsbest on August 1, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Aslan’s a lucky man.

Basilsbest on August 1, 2009 at 9:52 PM

Al Capone was put away because of tax evasion.

It’s basic war strategy — get your enemy any way you can.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on August 1, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Excellent point. I had forgotten about that. Alphonse fell afoul of not reporting his illegal income.

bullseye on August 1, 2009 at 9:53 PM

Is the Magnificent One setting The Right Up?

Ha!

If you run a political campaign or manage an elected office, the LAST thing you want is any doubts about you. It is hard enough to defend your programs and inevitable miscues without allowing rumors to fester. And a rumor that you are not even an American? Souppose you had a misstep concerning a foreign nation that made you look like a partisan of a foreign power?

Moreover, ignoring such an issue certainly makes lots of sense from an organization that tries to immediately discredit any critics — from powerful FOX NEWS to powerless Republicans and even Joe the Plumber.

As another writer observed, Alinski favored the junior high tactic of laughing at opponents. Treating birthers as tinfoil hat carriers is consistent with the technique that is designed to handle real and threatening attacks.

The evidence strongly suggests that He was born in Hawaii.
But common sense indicates that there is something very wrong here.

At any rate, I hope that nobody is holding their breath for the real BC. If there was no problem with the document, I don’t think the gang in the White House could resist having The One produce it to a cheering throng of illegal aliens or lefties who have laughed at the birthers all along.

And even if He comes up with the BC, the escape hatch is asking why spend all the treasure fighting your own citizens? Our questions were reasonable…

IlikedAUH2O on August 1, 2009 at 11:22 PM

Ann NY on August 1, 2009 at 7:32 PM

1. Bill Clinton’s Justice Dept. successfully prosecuted a FEMALE Federal emplyee (VA) for lying under oath about sex

2. Mr. Clinton engaged in sexual behavior in the workplace with a workplace subordinate, and then lied about it under oath to a Federal Grand Jury. That is a Felony crime punishable by a minimum term of 36 months in a Federal Prison. He also asked her to do the same.

Yet his defenders said he was above the law, and some even offered to take Monica’s place.

Del Dolemonte on August 2, 2009 at 12:32 AM

40% of New Yorkers still have nightmares about the “squeal like a pig” scene in Deliverance.

60% want to be Bobby.

Blake on August 1, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Or Barwnee Fwank.

Furthermore, he could not have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an American passport*. It was not the case that Americans were “advised” not to travel to Pakistan. They were not allowed to at all in 1981. It is simply not possible for anyone sans special diplomatic status and accompanying passport to have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an American passport.
ScottyDog on August 1, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Pakistan was under Sharia Law in the 1980′s.

dthorny on August 2, 2009 at 1:57 AM

The way I look at this birther issue, let it go viral ont he internet as people get more frustrated with Obama’s presidency. No need to speak out on it or take the high road, I would keep my mouth shut and let Obama spar back and forth with the birthers on the blogs. It is certainly something Obama would do.

If Obama does manage to push cap n trade and socialized healthcare and 3 liberal justices through during his Presidency (all could be done in the first term) then when he loses his next election, whoever the Republican President-Elect is should send the feds to the Town Hall where his papers are and make sure he had an actual Birth Certificate. If not, you’ll have to declare him an illegitimate President and all of his passed laws will be repealed, including his judicial nominations. That would be the easy way to undo some of his damage but only if he actually weren’t born here.

Daemonocracy on August 2, 2009 at 3:09 AM

I’m not sure it would be a good idea. Wouldn’t do much to advance the credibility of HA if a poll showed a large number of readers were deranged conspiracy theory nutjobs.

Hollowpoint on July 31, 2009 at 7:15 PM

It won’t. If you haven’t noticed, most of the birthers are the same ones in every thread. Meanwhile, if you go back a year ago, when this was all starting, most posters discarded the idea. It’s still that way.

MadisonConservative on July 31, 2009 at 7:17 PM

It could be almost as bad, not really, as having a poll that would show even a small number of HA members to be profoundly mentally outmatched, obsessive name-calling ad hominem slinging [Michelle Malkin: That's what you resort to when you're losing the debate -- name-calling and ad hominem attacks.] types, but then hopefully you two, and other ever more tiresome sheeple, would not be allowed to vote more than once each.

Luka on August 2, 2009 at 4:11 AM

I have just had something of an epiphany. People who are the “B” word are rather like Sergeant Crowley, wanting to get all the facts and make sure that everything was in order, and the “B” haters are rather like Professor Gates, and the Anointed One Barack Obama Himself, who thought that he was above that. Yes, the similarity is striking.

Luka on August 2, 2009 at 4:49 AM

Furthermore, he could not have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an American passport*. It was not the case that Americans were “advised” not to travel to Pakistan. They were not allowed to at all in 1981. It is simply not possible for anyone sans special diplomatic status and accompanying passport to have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an American passport.

Not true at all.

I know birther websites say this as Gospel, but it is not true. Pakistan was an ally then, and certainly not in the same category as North Korea or Cuba.

Birthers have not given proof of this so called ban, they just keep repeating it over and over though

firepilot on August 2, 2009 at 5:13 AM

Picture of possible copy of Obama’s Kenyan B.C. at following site:

orlytaitzesq.com

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on August 2, 2009 at 5:46 AM

Picture of possible copy of Obama’s Kenyan B.C. at following site:

orlytaitzesqDOTcom

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on August 2, 2009 at 5:46 AM

DO NOT CLICK ON ORLY TAITZ LINK!!!!!!!!

There are allegations in a FreeRepublic thread that there is a virus/malware present at OrlyTaitz site.

The document is posted at the ‘scribd’ site.

The ‘scribd’ site is apparently free of such virus/malware allegations

Will post ‘scribd’ link in next post

Mr Purple on August 2, 2009 at 7:13 AM

WARNING!!!

A discussion thread at FreeRepublic.com alleges there may be a virus/malware present at the OrlyTaitz site. The thread is titled ‘Is this really it?’/ DO NOT CLICK ON THE Orly Taitz link until this allegation has been proven or debunked!!!!

The FreeeRepublic and ‘scribd’ link posted below (with the document photo) are apparently free from any virus. THIS IS ONLY MY UNDERSTANDING AT THIS TIME!!! You may chose to visit wait until the OK is given before investigating further.

If this is a hoax or is real it will be discussed. Proceeed ahead at your own discretion

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18018714/03118509265

Mr Purple on August 2, 2009 at 7:22 AM

A conspiracy of the MSM?

I think the simpler explanation is the ideology that permeates the journalistic business.

Black Yoshi on August 1, 2009

True. You don’t need a conspiracy if all the players are on the same page to begin with. Just wait for the first sycophant to drool over Obama, then nod in agreement. Same effect, none of the hassle.

SKYFOX on August 2, 2009 at 8:34 AM

Eh – looks like a similar document posted on walagat.com – except with a perforation and a rip.

Looks like it may be something already presented and discarded.

Mr Purple on August 2, 2009 at 9:03 AM

I see that the countrified jackasses are still out there looking for B. Hussein’s real BC. Keep up the good work. The good news is that you have 7 1/2 more years to find the ‘truth’.

simplesimon on August 2, 2009 at 9:45 AM

Upon further review my comment at 9:03 is incorrect.

Somebody just attempted to zoom in on the document and saved it at wlalgat.com

It is still presented as is – for the first time ever.

Highly dubious circumstances I will admit. I believe this was listed on eBay and the guy may have been involved in some sort of organ donor scam.

Joseph Farah ‘tweeted’ about something coming this week that was ‘proof’.

I’m still very suspicious – but there are specific names and other attributes that should make for good proof/debunking clues – including the fact that part of it is type written. That is usually something that can be analyzed quite thoroughly and accurately.

Mr Purple on August 2, 2009 at 9:51 AM

Yes, again more hoaxes put forth by birthers. We can add that to the chain letters where someone adds Associated Press to the top to make it look official.

If there was all this evidence Obama was born in Kenya, there would not be this crap going on.

firepilot on August 2, 2009 at 9:54 AM

I guess I’m more willing to let the analysis play itself out and not rush to judgement before all the facts are in as the ‘suppressors’ so often wish to.

We see that tactic so often among the suppressors. Never question the official story. Don’t make waves. Play the good little defeated Republican and beg forgiveness.

It’s filed by Orly Taitz – so I imagine it will be discussed thoroughly.

Motion for rogatory discovery to authenticate Kenyan Birth Certificate of Barack Hussein Obama

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIANotice of Electronic FilingThe following transaction was entered by Taitz, Orly on 8/1/2009 at 10:08 PM PDT and filed on 8/1/2009Case Name:Ambassador Alan Keyes PhD, et al v. Barack Hussein Obama, et alCase Number:8:09-cv-82Filer:Alan Keyes PhDDocument Number:34Docket Text:NOTICE OF MOTION AND MOTION to Expedite authentication, MOTION for Issuance of Letters Rogatory for authenticity of Kenyan birth certificate filed by Plaintiff Alan Keyes PhD. (Attachments: # (1) Appendix Photocopy of Obama’s birth certificate from Kenya)(Taitz, Orly)8:09-cv-82 Notice has been electronically mailed to:UNITED STATES OF AMERICA     david.dejute@usdoj.govOrly Taitz     dr_taitz@yahoo.com8:09-cv-82 Notice has been delivered by First Class U. S. Mail or by fax to::The following document(s) are associated with this transaction:Document description: Main Document Original filename:C:\Documents and Settings\Orly Taitz\My Documents\Keyes%20rogatory%20motion%202[1].pdf Electronic document Stamp:[STAMP cacdStamp_ID=1020290914 [Date=8/1/2009] [FileNumber=8207635-0] [4da93b34b5fdee7990ff197d1d52961f770acc565b44d7fc733fd17c504b32e2e382d 943286e846ebef328762b316b0afaf37f29aa8cf9f725fa7514c0519f29]] Document description:Appendix Photocopy of Obama’s birth certificate from Kenya Original filename:C:\Documents and Settings\Orly Taitz\My Documents\Kenya BC.pdf Electronic document Stamp:[STAMP cacdStamp_ID=1020290914 [Date=8/1/2009] [FileNumber=8207635-1] [2b1e994c5d722e038a18416495d68765cadffdb11fa1066b8c7814f13f52f8ae00b5d 945186f8c08973dd1125cd2526e37cbc74feb3897c09b6b9ce4708491eb]

Mr Purple on August 2, 2009 at 10:06 AM

We see that tactic so often among the suppressors. Never question the official story. Don’t make waves. Play the good little defeated Republican and beg forgiveness.

Or, maybe we can see that “Republic of Kenya” was not a term used until much later that year. At the time of Obamas birth, it would be have been “Dominion of Kenya”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_of_Kenya

Actually, I see the birthers rarely questioning each other. One of them can post something and everyone else reposts it like it a fact. If the birthers were so good at questioning, then why do they keep repeating that Obama was a foreign student, or that US citizens cant have two passports, or that Americans could not travel to Pakistan then?

firepilot on August 2, 2009 at 10:22 AM

Or, maybe we can see that “Republic of Kenya” was not a term used until much later that year. At the time of Obamas birth, it would be have been “Dominion of Kenya”

firepilot on August 2, 2009 at 10:22 AM

…and something like that would certainly tend to prove or disprove this documents legitimacy when compared to other documents from the period.

Like I said – I will wait to see what the analysis shows before making a judgement – but either way this is going to be discussed.

I would be pretty surprised if he was born in Kenya. My opinion has always been his Indonesian citizenship disqualified him. That would seem like a possibly more vague area – losing NBC status as opposed to never having it in the first place.

Mr Purple on August 2, 2009 at 10:31 AM

I have just had something of an epiphany. People who are the “B” word are rather like Sergeant Crowley, wanting to get all the facts and make sure that everything was in order, and the “B” haters are rather like Professor Gates, and the Anointed One Barack Obama Himself, who thought that he was above that. Yes, the similarity is striking.

Luka on August 2, 2009 at 4:49 AM

Or, the other way around…like Gates, they ignore the evidence…Obama was born in Hawaii.
The Anti-Birthers are trying to tell the Birthers they are wrong, with proof, and the birthers (gates) just aren’t listening.
Gates was a man out of control….birthers are out of control.

right2bright on August 2, 2009 at 10:35 AM

I would be pretty surprised if he was born in Kenya. My opinion has always been his Indonesian citizenship disqualified him. That would seem like a possibly more vague area – losing NBC status as opposed to never having it in the first place.

But even if that was true, it would probably not affect US Citizenship. US law does not make it illegal to have another citizenship, there are plenty of dual-citizens. Some countries require renouncing previous citizenship before being naturalized, many do not.

If for whatever reason he had been given Indonesian citizenship when living there, it would not have impacted his US citizenship.

firepilot on August 2, 2009 at 11:17 AM

I have yet to see hard evidence out of Hawaii resolving the birth status. A state employee stating they ‘saw’ it is not evidence, and the short form is not evidence

Without the President agreeing to sign the consent form and ending what should be a simple problem, there is no verification.

This game could not be played in a court of law establishing identity. The judge would require the signed consent be submitted unless the subject pleaded the Fifth

That more southerners are skeptics tells me there are less sheep in the south than in the north. That is a plus for the south

On the other hand, when certain famous preachers tripped up, their troops also rallied into denial.

The disease is denial. People are heavily invested and will not demand hard evidence if they fear the consequences.

This is what you get from campaign finance reform, when the press is allowed to be the only voice, along with incumbents, at critical moments, and the press always has its own ponies in the race

In this last election the press realized its new powers and has become a self protection machine played like a fiddle by those who understand

entagor on August 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Barak B Obama’s REAL Birth Certificate.

doriangrey on August 2, 2009 at 12:59 PM

I have yet to see hard evidence out of Hawaii resolving the birth status. A state employee stating they ’saw’ it is not evidence, and the short form is not evidence

The COLB says right on the face of it that it is prima facie evidence of the birth.

Pablo on August 2, 2009 at 1:44 PM

I have yet to see hard evidence out of Hawaii resolving the birth status. A state employee stating they ’saw’ it is not evidence, and the short form is not evidence

entagor on August 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM

The Head of the Health Services is more then just an “employee”, good try on minimizing who saw it. And besides the COLB, there is no other “form” that is printed.
The COLB is the only form they issue.
Why is that so difficult to understand? The COLB is confirmed, after questions, by the head of the Health Services Dept. One of only persons who can confirm it. BTW, one other “employee” confirmed it also.
Obama was born in Hawaii.

right2bright on August 2, 2009 at 2:52 PM

KIs this Obooba’s Kenyan birth certificate?

Akzed on August 2, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Barak B Obama’s REAL Birth Certificate.

doriangrey on August 2, 2009 at 12:59 PM
KIs this Obooba’s Kenyan birth certificate?

Akzed on August 2, 2009 at 3:21 PM

Dude! This is getting off the hook! Now the media will have to get involved to prove this thing is a forgery. But what will they find and have to spike in the process?

tommylotto on August 2, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Notice how fast people will completely believe some document supposedly from a foreign country, that some unnamed person somehow gets ahold of, but will not under any circumstance believe a state issued document that both the Republican State governor and head of Hawaiian health service both vouch for?

Seems there are two different levels of proof required. For them to believe Obama was born here requires an insurmountable level of proof and for them to believe Obama was born in Kenya requires practically none.

firepilot on August 2, 2009 at 3:50 PM

firepilot on August 2, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Well….. no.

If you have read any of my comments on this matter, you would know that I recognize that Obama’s COLB creates a prima facie case that he was born in Hawaii. However, that is not conclusive, just sufficient unless rebutted by other evidence. Obama has been suspiciously coy about releasing the Hawaiian original, and if there is a Kenyan birth certificate, well, that would go a long way to rebut that presumption, and may lead to further investigation, which was my point.

tommylotto on August 2, 2009 at 4:12 PM

tommylotto on August 2, 2009 at 4:12 PM

…not to mention the fact that ‘birthers’ aren’t running around screaming ‘it is irrefutable, uncrontradictable proof – and if you don’t believe it you must be a racist intent on destroying the Republican Party’.

Whatever it is – it is now part of the debate and I’m sure it will be scrutinized very closely.

I would bet there are a whole lot more ‘birthers’ looking to find out the facts behind this document before proclaiming it real or a hoax than there are ‘suppressors’ trying to do the same to either document that alleges to be proof of a birth place

Mr Purple on August 2, 2009 at 4:29 PM

This document looks more genuine than the COLB. At least Orly’s petitioning the court to have it authenticated. That’s more than anyone did with Obama’s online COLB.
There are three views of Obama’s alleged Kenyan Certified Copy of Registration of Birth showing seal, signature & a spot or two of Kenya stew?
.
-Also-
.
Why is Orly Taitz’s New Court Filing asking to CONDUCT DISCOVERY OF DEFENDANT HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON & OTHER NON-PARTY WITNESSES… TO PERPETUATE TESTIMONY, PRESERVE EVIDENCE…?

From her electronic filing:

PROOF OF SERVICE

I the undersigned…that on this Saturday August 1, 2009…

SPECIAL MOTION FOR LEAVE TO CONDUCT PRE-RULE 26(f) DISCOVERY

TO DEFENDANT HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON and

CERTAIN NON-PARTY WITNESSES

TO PERPETUATE TESTIMONY, PRESERVE EVIDENCE, and TRANSMIT

LETTERS ROGATORY PURSUANT to 28 U.S.C. §§1781(a)(2)-(b)(2)…

FACSIMILE (213) 894-7819

DONE AND EXECUTED ON THIS 1st day of August, 2009″

Any legal minds lurking around who could explain what it means?

NightmareOnKStreet on August 2, 2009 at 7:21 PM

WoW! This is going to get interesting….quickly.

Tim Burton on August 2, 2009 at 9:20 PM

Any legal minds lurking around who could explain what it means?

NightmareOnKStreet on August 2, 2009 at 7:21 PM

The proof of service is just a page tagged onto the back of other documents indicating that it has been served on the other side. I assume that the subpoena to Clinton is just a subpoena decus tecum for the production of documents. As the secretary of State, she would be the appropriate person to subpoena to get Obama’s passport records… or more interestingly, the passport records of his mom and dad….

tommylotto on August 2, 2009 at 10:35 PM

tommylotto, thanks. It’s understandable that Orly wants this stuff quick- before the usually months-long wait for Obama’s CAIR lawyers to respond. She cited the reason- which is chilling- if there’s any connection with Lt. Harris’ murder:

From Orly’s filing“…The purpose of Rule 27, even though designed for pre-filing discovery, is fulfilled and relevant here, in that some (above-noted) hearsay evidence exists that an individual involved in the examination of passport files at the United States Department of State relating to and involving certain 2008 Presidential candidates may have been killed in relation to such inquiry. Last year it was announced by former secretary of State Candoleeza Rice that there was tampering with the passport records of three major presidential candidates and it was investigated by the inspector general. Lt. Querl Harris was one of the suspects in passport tampering scandal. Washington post has announced that he was cooperating with the FBI and shortly thereafter he was found dead, shot in the head, sitting in his parked car. This case remains open and unresolved. Under such circumstances, “perpetuation of evidence” becomes a more and more significant and time-sensitive issue…”

NightmareOnKStreet on August 2, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Last year it was announced by former secretary of State Candoleeza Rice that there was tampering with the passport records of three major presidential candidates and it was investigated by the inspector general. Lt. Querl Harris was one of the suspects in passport tampering scandal.

You can pretty well make book that they were tampering with one of the files as primary and the other two as diversion. Since the men involved worked for a software company run by a big Obama supporter I know which one I would guess was not one of the two diversions.

Washington post has announced that he was cooperating with the FBI and shortly thereafter he was found dead, shot in the head, sitting in his parked car. This case remains open and unresolved. Under such circumstances, “perpetuation of evidence” becomes a more and more significant and time-sensitive issue…”

NightmareOnKStreet on August 2, 2009 at 10:55 PM

Maybe he committed suicide. Did he shoot himself multiple times in the back of the head?

Luka on August 3, 2009 at 2:55 AM

was the dead informant found in fort marcy park by any chance???

bullseye on August 3, 2009 at 5:33 AM

KIs this Obooba’s Kenyan birth certificate?

Akzed on August 2, 2009 at 3:21 PM

You meant the birth certificate for the “Republic of Kenya” when the “Republic of Kenya” didn’t exist?
A forgers mistake, perfect in execution, but weak in detail. The forgerer never knew that the Republic of Kenya did not exist in 1961. It was formed late in December 1964, so even the argument that is was a reprint in 1964 is weak.
That would be like have a Lincoln penny from 1806…

right2bright on August 3, 2009 at 7:09 AM

Actually I think the forger did some of that on purpose to play a hoax on the birthers. There are several little gotchas in there besides that.

Although if the birthers insist it is genuine, then they need to start referring to Obama being born in Zanzibar.

firepilot on August 3, 2009 at 8:22 AM

Well as a ‘birther’ (actually more of an ‘eligibler’ since I think his Indonesian citizenship is the most likely disqualifier IMO) I have suspicions about this document – but not many of them stem from some little ‘gotcha’ a forger intentionally entered.

If they did that – then they wanted it to be discovered as a fake fairly easily.

I think it is a fake at this point, but not because a laundry detergent exists called ‘Environmentally Friendly Lavender’ or the number of the document can be broken up into pieces and arbitrarily assigned to trivia answers and minutia.

Mr Purple on August 3, 2009 at 8:43 AM

firepilot on August 3, 2009 at 8:22 AM

It brought the OBOTS out on Logistic Monster’s website. Why if it is nothing bother to make an argument? Here is the argument and the response to the Kenya Birth Certificate surfaces. If any of this was true, I would only have one word to describe it “Audacity” where have a I read that before GRIN

Dave Chandler says:
August 2, 2009 at 4:19 pm

Here’s some more.

1. In was dated Feb 14, 1964 and had the designation Republic of Kenya. However that designation was not official until December 1964.

2. It’s number 44 O 47 is a bit coincidental with 44th President Obama 47 years old

3. The name EF Lavender. Earth Friendly Lavender is a detergent

4. Mombasa did not become part of Kenya until 1963. It used to be part of Zanzibar

5. The Coast General Hospital is actually called the Coast Provincial General Hospital

wrench
August 2, 2009 at 4:41 pm

1. In was dated Feb 14, 1964 and had the designation Republic of Kenya. However that designation was not official until December 1964.

They Kenyan Government started to refer to Kenya as a Republic since December 13, 1963. The Kenyan constitution had already been written by that then it was consistently referred to the ‘Republic of Kenya’
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2. It’s number 44 O 47 is a bit coincidental with 44th President Obama 47 years old

He is 48 in a couple of days….so it is only coincidental for 2 days!
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3. The name EF Lavender. Earth Friendly Lavender is a detergent
The Surname is not unknown in Kenya. (It’s a joke name centurion….)
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4. Mombasa did not become part of Kenya until 1963. It used to be part of Zanzibar

It was still referred to as Mombasa, it was leased to Britain at the time of BO’s birth.
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5. The Coast General Hospital is actually called the Coast Provincial General Hospital

Dr Evil on August 3, 2009 at 8:46 AM

I believe that Barack H Obama Sr., was a British Citizen.
This reportedly – Kenyan birth certificate States B.H. Obama 26 student and he resided in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Has anyone wondered why right now, this Birther issue flaring up? Why? Is it politically advantageous to anyone? Look at the comments on this thread whether someone believes it or not, the birther issue won’t die.

Dr Evil on August 3, 2009 at 8:51 AM

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