Maybe Gates should have stood on civil liberties rather than race
posted at 10:55 am on July 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Henry Gates erred, says Christopher Hitchens in a must-read Slate piece, by assuming to know the motivations in a police officer’s heart when Gates found himself under arrest for screaming at Sergeant James Crowley from his own property. Instead, Gates should have avoided motivation altogether and stuck to the strange notion that venting one’s frustration on one’s own property could result in an arrest for disorderly conduct. Civil liberty and free speech are the issue, Hitchens insists, and not race:
I can easily see how a black neighbor could have called the police when seeing professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. trying to push open the front door of his own house. And I can equally easily visualize a thuggish or oversensitive black cop answering the call. And I can also see how long it might take the misunderstanding to dawn on both parties. But Gates has a limp that partly accounts for his childhood nickname and is slight and modest in demeanor. Moreover, whatever he said to the cop was in the privacy of his own home. It is monstrous in the extreme that he should in that home be handcuffed, and then taken downtown, after it had been plainly established that he was indeed the householder. The president should certainly have kept his mouth closed about the whole business—he is a senior law officer with a duty of impartiality, not the micro-manager of our domestic disputes—but once he had said that the police conduct was “stupid,” he ought to have stuck to it, quite regardless of the rainbow of shades that was so pathetically and opportunistically deployed by the Cambridge Police Department. It is the U.S. Constitution, and not some competitive agglomeration of communities or constituencies, that makes a citizen the sovereign of his own home and privacy. There is absolutely no legal requirement to be polite in the defense of this right. And such rights cannot be negotiated away over beer.
Race or color are second-order considerations in this, if they are considerations at all.
In my former career, I worked closely with police and fire departments across the country. The overwhelming majority of interactions were at least polite and professional, and many warm and friendly. Even when we had different short term goals, we had similar long term goals — the security of the communities they served. However, in more than a few cases, my staff and I had to deal with officious, condescending, and hostile representatives who treated everyone as their enemies. Instead of understanding the role and scope of their authority, they used their power as they saw fit, and in those cases went beyond their authority in demanding some kind of compliance to which they were not entitled. And it might surprise a few people that we saw that dynamic more with fire marshals than any other type of authority figure.
(An old industry joke: What’s the difference between a fire marshal and God? God doesn’t think he’s a fire marshal.)
When the Gates story first broke, I refrained from commenting on it until Barack Obama foolishly took sides without full information, mainly because I’ve had a couple of similar interactions with law-enforcement officers who either enjoyed their power a wee bit too much or simply had one bad moment. At that time, I mentioned a party that I attended many years ago that drew noise complaints. Someone mouthed off about a warrant, which provoked the officer to charge into the house without permission, thump his finger repeatedly into the smart-alec’s chest, and threaten to arrest everyone at the house. That broke the law and was an abuse of power, which his partner was smart enough to end by grabbing the officer by the arm and dragging him back out of the house. Race played no factor at all in that incident, but like Hitchens’ experience, it has stuck with me ever since as a reminder of the potential cost of demanding that the police stick to the rule of law while keeping the peace.
James Crowley sounds like an outstanding officer, but arresting someone on their own property for yelling at the police sounds a little strange. It seems at least plausible that Crowley had a bad moment and used poor judgment, not because of race, but simply because he’s human and has a tough job. Had Gates stuck to just those facts, he would have provided a teaching moment and a lesson on civil liberty and the right, at times, to yell at the representatives of our government when they appear to trample on the rights of citizens — even when the citizens are wrong in assuming the motivations involved.
Blowback
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That is called “The Law” without which a civilized society would not be possible. Just look around your neighborhood and see what happens when people start losing some of their respect for the law.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:09 PM
April:
Oh please. Crowley was at Gates home because he was called there on a possible break in. That was the only reason that he was even in that home.
And when he arrested Gates, it was outside. If Gates had just stfu and stayed in his house he would have been fine.
But then again, he will make a lot of money off of this no doubt. Professional race baiters need all the publicity they can get.
Terrye on July 29, 2009 at 3:10 PM
And I believe that if we were allowed to arm ourselves here in the Big Apple – like other municipalities – we wouldn’t have a problem with guns and the cops wouldn’t have such a problem either.
Unfortunately the powers that be up here – and that includes Mike – and Rudy and Ed before him – and every cop in this city – don’t see it my way.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Can you let the race angle go please?
It’s getting to be tired and you are better than that.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:11 PM
April:
Maybe it is the constituents who are the problem.
After all, you people keep voting for these guys.
Terrye on July 29, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Of course it’s a problem I live in Lberal-LaLa-Land. Even Trump is against guns.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Then move.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:15 PM
The problem is precisely that police know how to use the law to punish someone with attitude, while still staying within the bounds of proper police procedure.
If Crowley didn’t know that he was enticing Gates into an arrest by inviting him to continue outside the house, well, then he’s an incompetent cop who doesn’t know the law.
The only other possibility is that Crowley knew exactly what he was doing and deliberately maneuvered Gates into a situation where he could be arrested.
Most cop abuse of citizens isn’t like the Abner Louima case, but rather it’s 100% by the book.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:15 PM
April:
Let go of the race angle?
Please. You are not that stupid.
The truth is if Gates did not hate white cops there would not have been an altercation at all and we would not be having this conversation.
This is what Gates does, he makes his living playing the victim. And there was a time when there might have even been some truth in it.
But this time, he was the aggressor. Would I have arrested him? I don’t know. But once he followed me outside and kept screaming at me and threatening me…I might have. Crowley told the man he was becoming disorderly as a way of warning. And Gates did not take the warning.
So of course race is a part of it.
Terrye on July 29, 2009 at 3:15 PM
It’s is clearly racial because if the cop had been black there would have been no confrontation.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Actually, it’s nothing but ODS. Just because Gates knows Obama…he’s painted as a militant black man. This man is filthy rich and vacations at Martha’s Vineyard with white people. lol
beekiller on July 29, 2009 at 3:16 PM
roke:
Should Crowley have refused to answer the call?
Terrye on July 29, 2009 at 3:17 PM
It’s our hometown, my family, my husband’s family are here.
That would be hard for us to do, we are real New Yorkers.
Many of our friends/aquaintances/neighbors are transplants from smalltowns, but we are born and bred.
It would be hard to leave our families and I would not be able to leave my docs and Sloan Kettering.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:18 PM
You approach everything from the angle that there is constant abuse of citizens occurring by the cops every day. You must have had a bad experience and now everything you see is colored by that experience. I suggest counseling.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:18 PM
I agree with Ed and Chris Hitchens on this one. I’ve had good and bad experiences with the police; in fact, one bad run in with the police ended me in counseling and having to take pills for a few months. I do think that many police are good at their job, but some really are on a power-trip. It seems that it is especially true with high school and college kids; I think that some cops think it is okay to pick on the kids even if they aren’t doing anything or aren’t doing anything really that bad or violent. The kids aren’t likely to complain about it because they’re younger and don’t know their rights.
As for the situation at hand, Gates was clearly a a** in this case and shouldn’t have gone off on Officer Crowley. He wishes that he was a victim of racial profiling in this case. Racial profiling victims are young African American and Latinos from the wrong neighborhoods, not crusty old Harvard professors who live in Cambridge mansions. However, it is right to question the power that the police have to arrest someone for disorderly conduct. It’s quite a broad definition for a crime. Who is to say that a bad officer (or even a good officer having a bad day) wouldn’t abuse the discretion?
Illinidiva on July 29, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Lawdy. The Left is getting nervous. Axelrod’s calling out the Trolls to descend on Hot Air. And not just to this thread.
kingsjester on July 29, 2009 at 3:19 PM
beekiller:
No, he is painted as a militant black man, because he as a history as a militant black man.
The very first thing Gates said to Crowley was a reference to the fact that Gates was a black man in America.
Right off the bat, a political attack. Just because the white cop showed up on his doorstep. I wonder if his reaction would have been different if Crowley were black?
Terrye on July 29, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Excellent post – if we could rate your post I would give you the highest rating so far.
I agree with you completely and you really made the point, thanks!
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM
A “police officer in the performance of his duties”, contrary to what cops think, is not carte blanche permission to do whatever they want. Gates cooperated. He let the cop in to his home and produced id.
You authoritarians confuse cooperation with deference.
I once got accused of insubordination by a group supervisor at work. When I asked him to produce an example where I refused to do what my supervisors told me to do, he was silent. Screaming and yelling while cooperating, is nonetheless cooperation.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Your choice, but stop generalizing about the rest of the country based on your microcosm.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Atre you calling the Libertarians Lefties here?
Because if you are – it’s baseless and you are obviously looking for a silly flame war based on nada and nothing substantial to the dialouge will come from it.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:23 PM
I agree with Ed somewhat. I think Crowley was making a point. I do think he was within his rights to arrest Gates, but I am not sure if I would have done it.
However, I was not there. And neither were any of us and it seems to me that the other cops who showed up during this incident do think that Crowley did the right thing.
I blame Gates. The man was and is an ass. That was the problem.
Terrye on July 29, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Quit smoking pot. It doesn’t make you ‘smarter’ and it leads to paranoia, and your paranoia is on display.
daesleeper on July 29, 2009 at 3:23 PM
You want an arrest to pop up on a background check when applying for a job?
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Ahem, who’s generalizing about the rest of the country and their guns?
Not me, I was speaking about NYC and the Greater Northeast.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:24 PM
From what I have seen from your other post you are not a Libertarian, middle of the road democrat maybe but no t Libertarian.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:24 PM
April:
I think a lot of people who call themselves libertarians do not even know what it means.
Terrye on July 29, 2009 at 3:24 PM
It’s in Crowley’s own police report. He clearly baited an angry man to continue his tirade in public.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Is that what happened to you? Would explain the irrational fear of cops.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM
He does not meet my definition of a militant black man at all.
beekiller on July 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM
He does not meet my definition of a militant black man at all.
beekiller on July 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM
but he meets my definition of batsh-t crazy!
Ghoul aid on July 29, 2009 at 3:28 PM
I’ll make it easy for you and quote you. Then you can go and look up Libertarian.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Actually the cop threatened to shoot him for threatening to drive his own car. The guy never got behind the wheel.
Anyone else see the case in the Philly area were some young people were rear ended by the son of a cop. Cop jr. got cop sr. to go find the other car and he proceeded to assault the driver while she was standing in line at a convenience store. After beating her up, he charged her with assaulting a police officer.
When the PD found out that there were surveillance videos exonerating the victim and proving the cop’s misconduct, officers pressured an employee of the store to erase the tapes.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090720_Store_video_catches_cop_bullying_woman.html?viewAll=y
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:29 PM
No, this is not clear. He told Gates if he wanted to discuss the issue further, he would have to talk to him outside. Nothing is clear about this “baiting.”
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Oh – Ok I did not know that you were the one responsible for that definition.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Not lucky. A result of his deliberate actions to get Gates in a position where he could be arrested for giving cop attitude.
He invited a screaming man outside. A man who had cooperated with a crime investigation by letting the officer in his house and producing identification.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM
You are really fixated on the cops. Of course there is going to be abuses of power, but far and wide the cops do a great job keeping you safe. Showing one example proves nothing except that it is the exception. How many cops do you think make arrests every day millions? Even if there was 10 or 100 cases of cop abuse a day that would still be statically insignificant.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Ahh – conspiracy the last refuge of the little mind.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:33 PM
And that screaming man could have said, “No thanks.”
Maybe Crowley used his Mind Control…
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Thanks! It seems to be that so many people are jumping to defend police in all situations just because they support the men in uniform or think Gates is an a**. I think that it is okay to think Gates is an a** and still be concerned about the discretion that police have. I think that local govts can provide police too much power in many of their ordinances. It seems that many suburban police stations are revenue agencies, not law enforcement agencies. (See speed traps, red light cameras, etc.) Not to mention the ridiculous pollution control laws that most states have. And don’t get me started on the underaged drinking hypocrisy. Drinking tickets are a huge revenue generator for most college towns.
Illinidiva on July 29, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Correction.
Crowley does not OWN the property. The university owns that property. Crowley just lives there.
maverick muse on July 29, 2009 at 3:36 PM
yep
funky chicken on July 29, 2009 at 3:36 PM
I thought so. I asked earlier and no-one knew. Thanks.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:37 PM
That’s your opinion, I couldn’t care less.
I have never voted Democrat in my life. I said lean Libertarian, I am a regitered Republican.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:37 PM
A NYC Republican is a middle of the road Democrat in the rest of the country.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Interesting.
First, Crowley had finished his investigation and was trying to get AWAY from Gates and his abuse. Gates was not forced or coerced into going outside.
Second, you’re actually ADMITTING that there WAS a public disturbance. Which means that Crowley was correct in arresting him.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Gates is slight in stature, as in character.
Gates is by no means modest in demeanor.
His own public presentations utilizing whitey/cracker “yo’ mama” rhetoric defy any claim for “modest demeanor”.
maverick muse on July 29, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Eh… I don’t know. I’ve come across some that would prove the opposite.
Plus many “rest of the country” Republicans go gaga over certain popular “democrat” policies.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Why argue – you have a cop hater, a couple of trolls and someone who thinks they are a libertarian on the other side – amusing but futile.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM
good summary….
funky chicken on July 29, 2009 at 3:44 PM
A generalization that always will have exceptions. But you should not let a single exception distract from the obvious truth. Just look at Rudy. Fiscally conservative but socially liberal.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:45 PM
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Yep. It’s like putting a hat on a mule. The mule doesn’t like it and it sure doesn’t make him look prettier.
kingsjester on July 29, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Actually being rude to police is a crime. They can rest you under the charge of Disorderly Conduct. If Gates had been a crabby white man, Crowley probably still would have arrested him.
Illinidiva on July 29, 2009 at 3:46 PM
True. Although I don’t agree with Rudy on a lot of things, he might actually do some good for the state of NY (as gov.).
Why not let Rudy represent New York Republicanism?
For example, as things stand, Southern Republicanism might not work for other parts of the Union (or at least might not be electable).
Finally, personally, I’m not even sure if I’d make a good Republican. Some of their current positions are not to my liking.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:48 PM
Gates consented to the officer’s entry when he opened the door for him. It’s in Crowley’s police report, which though it tries to make Gates look bad, when you distill it down to the facts, shows that Gates in fact cooperated by letting the officer in and producing identification.
Crowley in fact radioed his superiors (the ones that cop apologists say couldn’t hear because of Gates’ shouting) saying that he thought Gates was the lawful resident but that Gates’ actions “confused” him. Because, after all, cops can’t understand why a legal resident of a house might get indignant at the implication that he was a burglar. Right.
Reading the police report, you can see the exact moment when it changed from an investigation of a break into teaching Gates a lesson for going off on a cop. From that point on, everything was done by the book for the sole purpose of arresting Gates.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:48 PM
And some here would say that if in fact the law (it might vary by state) allows the police to arrest people for being rude, then perhaps that law should be taken into reconsideration.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:49 PM
I think we are saying the same thing. Conservative means different things in different parts of the country. That’s why I am a strong believer in States Rights. Let most of the power reside where it is exercised by people most likely to be similar to those they represent.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:50 PM
It is your view/theory that it tries to make Gates look bad.
In your opinion.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:51 PM
What some call “baiting”, I would instead call “giving Gates enough rope to hang himself.”
And I’m hard pressed to see what the problem is with that.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Yes, you are right about that.
ladyingray on July 29, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Actually it is not. Cops put their life on the line daily and get treated like crap by a bunch of people who think the Cops are just their employees. What Gates did was not being rude to a cop, but when he left his house and continued to yell at the officer and a crowd started to gather in front of his house he crossed from being rude to being disorderly.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Actually, I think this whole Gates debacle can be used for an argument for more State’s Rights.
Let’s say Mass. won’t do anything about this in terms of Civil Liberties (I doubt they will…)
But maybe Nevada sees this and says, you know what, even though Gates is a crazy guy, he should be allowed to say “Yo Momma” to the police officer (just saying). Then Nevada should be free to allow for such things and let Mass. continue to lie to themselves that this is a Race Issue.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:53 PM
I call it, Gate’s freedom as an American Citizen ;)
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:54 PM
And it should be changed in the states (which are most) that have such vague D.O. laws. I think that was the legit. point that Hitchens was trying to make.
Illinidiva on July 29, 2009 at 3:54 PM
I think it already is as each state has different definition of Disorderly Conduct on the books.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Frustrating ;)
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Yep and thank goodness. Wouldn’t want to impose Mass. standards on the entire country.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Nope, just SOP for many cops.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 3:56 PM
One of the freedoms we have is to move to a state whose policies better represent us.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Sure, they have the right, but peace officers have the right to question what looks like an illegal activity. You can stand in the street and throw rocks through your own windows too, but I would expect any cop to stop you.
tommuck on July 29, 2009 at 3:56 PM
In your opinion.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 3:57 PM
Especially when it’s family! LOL
ladyingray on July 29, 2009 at 3:58 PM
A NYC Republican is a middle of the road Democrat in the rest of the country.
Thank you.
But with some if us are not what they consider pure – by their standards of course – one is damned to being called a Democrat and a liberal.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Me either.
ladyingray on July 29, 2009 at 3:59 PM
I agree that police can often over-play their hand, and most frequently that occurs with some rude police officers who pick on those they deem least likely to resist.
But obviously from the get-go, Gates was resistant to cooperation. He doesn’t fit into the meek lamb, scape goat, whipping boy category. I would be surprised to learn that the university did not have security measures Gates coulda-shoulda utilized prior to breaking into the recently burglarized university’s property where he resides. Ask the university’s insurance carrier if there was a security company he could have called for help gaining entry without alarming the neighbors, playing out the antics of another break-in. I would NOT be surprised if Gates set up the entire episode for his own purposes.
Again, Gates was occupying property that was not his own.
Bear in mind, renters frequently get arrested from their premises for disturbing the peace in every state when neighbors call for a police response, and in the response the police determine cause.
Finally, as with cases of domestic violence or simply disturbing the peace, people do get arrested from their own property when the neighbors or co-habitants call police who in response find cause.
This incident was Gates’ fault, start to finish.
And Gates does owe the officer’s mother an apology.
maverick muse on July 29, 2009 at 3:59 PM
You read my mind… most of my mom’s family are socon farmers…
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:01 PM
That he does.
Don’t expect it though.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Liberal municiplaities seem to always want to make that arrest or write that extra ticket – to make money for their coffers.
That’s how my town is.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Your “conservative” voice seems to be much more interested in keeping order than in following the law.
The law also constrains police from teaching folks a lesson just for disrespecting them. That’s the point that deputyheadmistress and others here are trying to make.
You seem to have a problem with the idea that police should follow the law too.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 4:02 PM
…And then they have the nerve to call themselves liberal… Not so free in the police states.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM
You have to have ODS or you’re a RINO/liberal. Get with the program missy! :D
beekiller on July 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM
D.O. laws are very, very loosely defined and allow the police too much discretion. Police, being people like you or I, sometimes abuse the discretion that they were given. And it doesn’t just have to be mouthing off. It can be whatever the cop deems the nuisance to be and for whatever reason he feels like it. Why would you want to give someone else that much power? Local ordinances need to be tightened up to make those sorts of abuses less likely. Police, especially suburban and small town police districts, are more about generating revenue for the town through tickets than about protecting the public. That trend really needs to be reversed.
Illinidiva on July 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Which moment would that be?
This one, where Gates starts the whole mess off with racial accusations?
Or maybe this one, where Gates initially refuses to provide identification?
Or this one, where Gates demands the officer’s name (even though he already provided it) and then shouts over Crowley’s attempt to give it to him (and note this happens AFTER Crowley tries to leave)?
Or maybe this one, where the fed-up Crowley decides to leave because he realizes that Gates really is not interested in his name?
Oh, I know! It’s this one, where Officer Crowley is in SUCH a hurry to arrest Gates that he gives him TWO warnings!
So let me see here, IF Gates:
- had NOT assumed racism right off the bat
- had treated the officer with civility
- had stayed INSIDE his house
- had stopped after the first warning
- had stopped after the SECOND warning
…then Gates would never had been arrested.
Yet, there are some here who think the OFFICER is in error.
~shakes head~
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Of course – I lost my rule book over by the windmill when I running from the torches and pitchforks….
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Hotair sides with Gates. I’m shocked. Shocked I tell you.
Funny how the politicians put direct pressure on the DA to get the charges dropped so the process wouldn’t go forward and a court be allowed to take evidence and decide who was right and who was wrong. But Ed, with his drunken frat party experience solidly behind him knows Sgt Crowley used “used poor judgment.” Note that his superiors disagree and so do the other officers on the scene, not to mention the local attorneys who know the law backward and forawrd and who have discussed it ad nausea on Boston radio. But, of coarse, they aren’t Ed Morrissey
WTF has happened to Hotair? It’s time for a change.
TheBigOldDog on July 29, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Don’t expect it though.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I don’t hold my breath except to gain distance from skunks.
maverick muse on July 29, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Not at all. Police need to follow the law, also.
Which is EXACTLY what happened here.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Now if Silverback was here, he might get upset.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Somebody please do a complete water analysis of the entire state of Minnesota ASAP. I think there might be something harmful in the water that causes them to elect professional wrestlers as governors, put professional clowns in the Senate and use a drunken college party experience to pass judgment on a Massachusetts police officer while without even knowing Massachusetts laws or harldy even knowing the full facts of the case.
TheBigOldDog on July 29, 2009 at 4:10 PM
After visiting Minneapolis last week, I wasn’t surprised that the state voted for Franken.
I got bombarded with Fliers saying Jews weren’t Hebrews and a giant space craft was going to take us to Yahweh.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Why should the fact that I invented a bong have anything to do with cops? You can’t get a patent on something illegal – that’s basic patent law. Cops should have no interest in my bongs. Besides, they haven’t been in production in years and like I said, they’re perfectly legal, at least as far as the US Patent and Trademark Office is concerned.
Also, stating that something is a libel is different than threatening legal action. Asking if someone likes legal bills is also different than threatening legal action.
Things are what they are, not what cops and their apologists want them to be.
I think that’s the difference between folks who like law and folks who like order. Someone asks a cop a question, acknowledging the cop’s legal authority, and the cop doesn’t perceive the question as what it really is, a question, but rather as a challenge to his authority.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Perhaps.
So, let’s say evil Copper Crowley had asked Gates if he liked getting his teeth knocked out in a jail cell [and more]… he wouldn’t be threatening him, so what would he be doing?
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Take your attack on Ed and the blog elsewhere, please because it unwarranted. Ed never said he sided with Gates, he is merely deliberating on what Chris Hitchens wrote.
None of us are siding with Gates – we are standing on the tenets of civil liberties, period.
You know, less Government in your home, no eminent domain, your home/property is your castle – free from the invasion of the government – if you have not broken any law.
I think many of us fall back on this idea. I wrote this the other night – under one of the first posts on this unfortunate subject – begging someone to please dig up William F Buckley, as we have lost our way if we do not recognize that our property is sancrosanct and free from the government’s intrusions.
AprilOrit on July 29, 2009 at 4:18 PM
And people don’t lose respect for the law when they see cops casually break, abuse or misuse it?
Yes, Sgt. Crowley’s actions were by the book and every cop will back him up on that, but it’s clear that I’m not the only person who sees this as a clear case of contempt of cop. Of course Gates got arrested for giving attitude. Were his actions technically within the range of what cops like to call “disorderly conduct”? Of course they were. That was Crowley’s intention from the second he reported that he was “confused” by Gates actions.
In this case the police used their power and knowledge of the law to mess someone up even though they knew that the only crime that had been committed was the direct result of police action.
That kind of police behavior promotes disrespect for the law. The law is not some kind of tool that cops have in their back pocket to use to show folks who are in charge. Cops have to respect the law, truly respect it, a respect greater than what they expect from non-cops.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask for in a country that’s governed by laws, not men.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 4:21 PM
One thing about our country, that when you get right down to it, is that green is the only color that really means anything
Johan Klaus on July 29, 2009 at 4:25 PM
No, but the first thing he should have done when seeing an older man standing in the foyer of the home not trying to flee when he saw a cop/cops was not telling the man to come outside.
Gates at that point had no idea why an officer of the state was asking him to leave the legal sanctuary and physical safety of his own home.
He reasonably asked the supposed cop to identify himself.
It was only then that Crowley mentioned any investigation of a possible break-in.
Gate’s let him in, and brought up the subject of race.
Until that point, Gates acted completely reasonably, and the fact that he was provoked into making unreasonable statements and accusations about racism, is also reasonable.
The guy is minding his own business, in his own home and the first thing a cop does is tell him to come outside with no explanation?
No, Crowley could have handled this much better. Gates didn’t act suspiciously other than being in a home that might have had a break in. Crowley should have mentioned the report of a possible crime from the get go.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Just how far left can Ed go?
New burn game, coming out of the closet to pimp for traffic.
Want to expose police corruption?
Look into Austin’s newest Police Chief whose record as LA Chief simply never reported half of the city’s criminal complaints. Sterling.
Look into drug busts gone tragically wrong by police responding to the WRONG ADDRESS or responding to a false charge from an anonymous tip.
Contrast the police handling this call to Gates’ university residence vs. a police SWAT team response to a call from an employee’s insurance company representative who called the police to spite the policy holder after refusing to honor the policy coverage as I witnessed across the street as the police broke into my neighbor’s home without calling him or knocking on his door.
But don’t incriminate a good police officer conducting his business according to the books with a smear that compares him to authoritarian opportunists gone wild on a respectable, hard working citizen trying to sleep during the day after completing home business calls after his night shift job.
maverick muse on July 29, 2009 at 4:33 PM
The next time someone badmouths Detroit and the domestic car companies, they should find out who paid for that hospital.
Hell, if it wasn’t for Charles Kettering, most women wouldn’t have been able to drive. He invented the electric starter.
rokemronnie on July 29, 2009 at 4:34 PM
While it is perfectly reasonable to critique Crowley
1) It seems to be your opinion (not a fact) that Crowley to some extent intentionally provoked Gates
2) We live in a country where we are free to be provoked (intentionally or not) and we can make a choice as to how to respond.
Please give Gates some more credit. I think he does have a brain. I’m sure he could make his own decisions – and live with the consequences (lawful or otherwise).
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 4:36 PM
rokemronnie
No. The police call reported TWO men attempting to break in. The officer was correct, only seeing one man, to not simply enter where there may yet be an ambush from a second man reported involved in the forced entry.
Also, whether in one’s home or automobile, if the officer asks you to please step out, it is polite to comply, as it is polite to provide one’s identification.
maverick muse on July 29, 2009 at 4:36 PM
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