Maybe Gates should have stood on civil liberties rather than race
posted at 10:55 am on July 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Henry Gates erred, says Christopher Hitchens in a must-read Slate piece, by assuming to know the motivations in a police officer’s heart when Gates found himself under arrest for screaming at Sergeant James Crowley from his own property. Instead, Gates should have avoided motivation altogether and stuck to the strange notion that venting one’s frustration on one’s own property could result in an arrest for disorderly conduct. Civil liberty and free speech are the issue, Hitchens insists, and not race:
I can easily see how a black neighbor could have called the police when seeing professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. trying to push open the front door of his own house. And I can equally easily visualize a thuggish or oversensitive black cop answering the call. And I can also see how long it might take the misunderstanding to dawn on both parties. But Gates has a limp that partly accounts for his childhood nickname and is slight and modest in demeanor. Moreover, whatever he said to the cop was in the privacy of his own home. It is monstrous in the extreme that he should in that home be handcuffed, and then taken downtown, after it had been plainly established that he was indeed the householder. The president should certainly have kept his mouth closed about the whole business—he is a senior law officer with a duty of impartiality, not the micro-manager of our domestic disputes—but once he had said that the police conduct was “stupid,” he ought to have stuck to it, quite regardless of the rainbow of shades that was so pathetically and opportunistically deployed by the Cambridge Police Department. It is the U.S. Constitution, and not some competitive agglomeration of communities or constituencies, that makes a citizen the sovereign of his own home and privacy. There is absolutely no legal requirement to be polite in the defense of this right. And such rights cannot be negotiated away over beer.
Race or color are second-order considerations in this, if they are considerations at all.
In my former career, I worked closely with police and fire departments across the country. The overwhelming majority of interactions were at least polite and professional, and many warm and friendly. Even when we had different short term goals, we had similar long term goals — the security of the communities they served. However, in more than a few cases, my staff and I had to deal with officious, condescending, and hostile representatives who treated everyone as their enemies. Instead of understanding the role and scope of their authority, they used their power as they saw fit, and in those cases went beyond their authority in demanding some kind of compliance to which they were not entitled. And it might surprise a few people that we saw that dynamic more with fire marshals than any other type of authority figure.
(An old industry joke: What’s the difference between a fire marshal and God? God doesn’t think he’s a fire marshal.)
When the Gates story first broke, I refrained from commenting on it until Barack Obama foolishly took sides without full information, mainly because I’ve had a couple of similar interactions with law-enforcement officers who either enjoyed their power a wee bit too much or simply had one bad moment. At that time, I mentioned a party that I attended many years ago that drew noise complaints. Someone mouthed off about a warrant, which provoked the officer to charge into the house without permission, thump his finger repeatedly into the smart-alec’s chest, and threaten to arrest everyone at the house. That broke the law and was an abuse of power, which his partner was smart enough to end by grabbing the officer by the arm and dragging him back out of the house. Race played no factor at all in that incident, but like Hitchens’ experience, it has stuck with me ever since as a reminder of the potential cost of demanding that the police stick to the rule of law while keeping the peace.
James Crowley sounds like an outstanding officer, but arresting someone on their own property for yelling at the police sounds a little strange. It seems at least plausible that Crowley had a bad moment and used poor judgment, not because of race, but simply because he’s human and has a tough job. Had Gates stuck to just those facts, he would have provided a teaching moment and a lesson on civil liberty and the right, at times, to yell at the representatives of our government when they appear to trample on the rights of citizens — even when the citizens are wrong in assuming the motivations involved.
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A lot of judges and prosecutors will not waste their time prosecuting a disorderly conduct case. The pratical purpose of the law is to give a raving maniac a few days to cool off in the cells. It allows a police officer to defuse a public situation. However the assistant DA may think it beneath to have to argue over it in court. Repeat offenders are more likely to incur prosecutions. Also, I believe Gates has powerful friends in high place (i.e. the President).
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM
I’d have to agree again with Esthier.
There are a lot of things that are wrong that happen. It doesn’t mean they aren’t wrong.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Which isn’t to say dropped charges are never an indicator of police misconduct, just that they can’t, alone, prove much of anything.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 12:27 PM
THIS is the law Crowley arrested Gates for breaking:
Furthermore:
The cop invited Gates to follow him out to the porch if he wanted the officer’s name and badge number. Gates followed the officer out, AS ASKED, and was arrested for yelling at a man and demanding he leave when that man no longer had legitimate business on his property.
Gates was obnoxious, no doubt about it, and in a moral sense he may have ‘gotten what he had coming,’ but in a legal, civil liberties sense, not so much.
DeputyHeadmistress on July 29, 2009 at 12:29 PM
As long as we live by the rule of law, those charged with enforcing it deserve the benefit of the doubt. What did Gates give up but a bit of his time for refusing to cooperate with a police officer in the performance of his duties.
It would have been one thing had the events transpired the way the filthy liar laid them out in his presser. That a rogue cop stormed into Gates home and arrested him for being black. But since it was a legitimate response to a 911 call, I don’t see where anybody should be questioning the decisions Crowley made in the moment. Certainly not suggesting that the teachable moment involves cop bashing hidden with the excuse that he was only “being human.”
highhopes on July 29, 2009 at 12:29 PM
3) He Called Barry who called Devall Patrick who called the Police Commissioner who called the guys at the office and said let it go he is a friend of the president…favor please.
However…When Barry then opened his bag fat race baiting mouth at the end of the disasterous Health Care for OImerica Kabuki theater prime time special, and called the cops stupid, all bets were off. If at that point they could recind the dropping of charges they would have.
They did a favor to the current rentor in the white house and then realized the two faced son of a b!tch was playing them at both ends and thats how the crap hit the fan.
Really is Terry Silver that simple that he doesn’t understand the way the world works? I guess thats what happens when you have your liberal lips firmly plnted around Obama’s Hopenchange Hooka.
BillaryMcBush on July 29, 2009 at 12:29 PM
Minor charges are dropped because if the DA prosecuted everyone of them the justice system would grind to a halt. It’s simple triage and should not be used as an indicator for anything.
There is only one racist in the situation and it was Gates.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM
I suppose if I were a crook, I might actually rob Gates house now. Which neighbor in their right mind would actually phone that one in after all this??
Ozprey on July 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM
The charges were immediately dropped because the arrest was ridiculous. Crowley fully understood the law regarding disorderly conduct, and he would have looked foolish in court if pressed on it.
“Why did you invite Gates, a clearly irate man outside where he could be arrested?
Why did you not leave immediately upon discovering that Gates was the owner of the house”
etc.
crr6 on July 29, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Glad we have crr6 to argue from the heart… or whatever Huff-N-Puff tells it.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
I gave a legal definition of disorderly conduct upthread (New York penal code) which includes “unreasonable noise” and “abusive or obscene language”.
True.
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
I agree with this whole-heartedly.
There are some of us left who grew up (not too long ago) with the understanding that cops are good people who exist to “protect and serve”, and would never NEVER think about being a d/b FOR ANY REASON to a cop doing what Crowley was attempting to do.
We’ve lost something in out drive-by society…something called respect. We’ve lost it for each other and for law enforcement…we’ve lost it, and replaced it w/ a TV drama.
Bottom line…Gates behaved like an ass to someone who was simply there to ask a few questions and see if there was a problem. The fact that he had a racist “Falling Down” moment w/ his mouth settles that.
He deserved to get tased; so in my opinion he got off light.
bluelightbrigade on July 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
In this particular case, I don’t see why (esp. after national coverage) the charges were dropped OTHER than the Justice System was heavily leaned on…
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:32 PM
I find it odd that charges would be dropped so quickly if the police were in the right. Seems to me like they feel they overreacted and that the officer pushed the boundaries of his authority with a man who had committed no crime on his own property.
Terry Silver on July 29, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Stupid conjecture and not based on the facts available in the case. You are smart enough to type so you need to use your head and examine the evidence. But obviously you have your mind made up.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Gates better hope there’s a few black paramedics if he ever has a heart attack. That squad might be a bit slow to respond.
Jeff from WI on July 29, 2009 at 12:33 PM
No Crowley had already provided that information to Gates in the house when first asked…unlike Gates who refused to show identification at first and launched into a tantrum of screaming and racist insult flinging.
Crowley left the residence and told gates if he wanted to continue the
verbal assaulthe could do so outside.Big Difference, since your interpretation makes it sound like Crowley was trying to get him outside to arrest him.
Really, gates was an a$$hole and refused to stop being an a$$hole on multiple occasions during the conversation.
BillaryMcBush on July 29, 2009 at 12:33 PM
How about this: the charges were dropped because of political pressure from Gates’ powerful friends in the WH and the Governor’s mansion
runner on July 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Didn’t read too much about this, but did Gates actually own the house?
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Good cops know that it’s not about being justified in court, so long as a crime [b&e, burglary, assault on an officer...] was prevented.
This was not d**k-waving (on Crowley’s part). This was about safety.
bluelightbrigade on July 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM
I agree that you have to accept the consequences of your speech. However, ‘disorderly conduct/disturbing the peace’ laws are simply too broad and give the state a catch-all excuse for detaining someone. Gates should have properly ID’d himself, then thanked the cops for trying to protect his stuff. But after that, if he wished to holler ‘yo mama,’ then that is protected. Not nice, and he shouldn’t expect an expeditious response to any subsequent 911 calls from his residence, but certainly within his right to freedom of speech.
hogfat on July 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Let’s put this into perspective. Gates refused to deal with the responding officers. Instead he was trying to call the Chief of Police, presumably to put Whitey in his place. I don’t think it strange that he was arrested if that was the attitude he was giving from the very beginning.
highhopes on July 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM
He did try to leave as soon as he learned Gates was the owner. It was at that point, when Crowley was already outside that Gates kept pressing Crowley, which is when Crowley then asked Gates to come outside, if he wished.
But we are talking about a misdemeanor here. It’s not as though those always see time in court.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM
BTW – the complete police reports can be read here.
Some interesting parts:
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM
You really cannot be this thick. These types of charges are almost always dropped. You would have a good case complaining if Gates ended up being one of the few people ever prosecuted for this type of offense. The arrest itself is considered enough of a punishment and the hope is that the offender gets the message.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Enough is enough…sometimes you just have to put children in their place…Gates was a child, they put him in the “grown up corner” until he learned to behave.
But like most spoiled brats, he won’t learn…but he shut up.
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Or its just to drop the whole thing down the memory hole in the name of appeasement.
It’s bad precedent, but c’mon…its just easier in this case.
bluelightbrigade on July 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Terry, you got it!
The police weren’t in the right. You know why? Because being in “the right,” means you can’t make Barry’s friends look bad and you have to go along with some pathetic Racist Cops that Teach How to Not Racial Profile Courses and Probably Voted For Obama Mantra…
That how Gates and company define “right.”
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM
I dunno, maybe he was arrested because the good citizens of Cambridge expect a higher level of decorum in their community and Crowley and his compatriots are expected to keep the peace.
Perhaps if Skippy had pulled the same thing in the projects no one would have even batted an eye because that is the sort of thing those residents have to endure.
Then again in the projects he may have had the holy hell beat out of him.
Lily on July 29, 2009 at 12:37 PM
As Steve Sailer pointed out last week:
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 12:37 PM
You really find it odd that a friend of the President’s might get preferential treatment when committing a misdemeanor?
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 12:38 PM
hmm, I assume so, unless it’s a tenure perk. I as well have heard no details on the subject.
Ozprey on July 29, 2009 at 12:38 PM
Just because Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct does not mean he was arrested for disorderly conduct. It is much more believable that he was arrested for making credible threats to use his powerful connections to make the officers’ lives miserable.
As I understand it (you lawyers and police chiefs please chime in), an arrest report is the best way to get the facts of the situation into a public document for the officers’ own protection. I also understand they have severe limits on what the can say once it all hits the fan. It certainly seems to have been wise for Crowley to have filed such a report the way this case has played out.
I would also imagine there was never an intention to pursue charges, merely to protect the police officers’ own rights and maybe to give Gates a reason to think twice if there’s ever a next time.
Chaz on July 29, 2009 at 12:38 PM
I THOUGHT I heard something about the university owning it… not surprising given that Gates is probably incapable of doing much on his own.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Because he didn’t really know if Gates was the owner of the house…you don’t take someone who may be breaking into a house at his word.
“Excuse me, are you the owner of this house you are having a problem getting into?”….You are, okay I will leave now.
*
That is not how it works in the real world. Suspicious actions demand that the police treat them as suspicious.
You are very young, and quite naive aren’t you?
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
What’s wrong with a catch-all ordinance? Lawmakers can’t forsee every eventuality and there are times when there is a need to detain somebody even if it isn’t for a specific infraction. Often it is for the individual’s own good which could well be what happened here if Gates was so hysterical he had lost all control of his anger. Remember, detained isn’t the same thing as tried and convicted.
highhopes on July 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
I find it odd that Gates is mum about his property rights (if he even had them…)
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Did you really just quote Steve Sailer, noted racist? Wow, just wow.
Terry Silver on July 29, 2009 at 12:41 PM
The fact that he warned him twice before arresting him is what most makes me side with Crowley and against those who say he tried to trap Gates by asking him to come outside.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 12:42 PM
I honestly think that the root of all this was Crowley not bowing and scraping before the great academic. Gates is not used to people who don’t know who he is. That’s why Gates first response was’t “here’s my ID” but to try and get the Chief of Police on the phone- presumably to give Crowley a teachable moment about no screwing around with important professors.
highhopes on July 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM
It doesn’t matter if Steve Sailer is a racist or not. What matters is the argument, not the person making the argument. His explanation of this apsect of the case is sound.
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 12:44 PM
…and that he wasn’t arrested inside his house (no, crr, it wasn’t entrapment if Gates chased him – with his limp…)
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Hey why don’t you quote David Duke next? I’m sure he has a fine take on this subject as well.
Terry Silver on July 29, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I find that hard to believe. I would think the incident would have had a police report regardless of an arrest and can’t imagine that report wouldn’t have been considered credible, especially when the facts of this case were so heavily in Crowley’s favor.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 12:45 PM
I don’t even understand the “trapping” argument.
How do you “trap” someone by offering them to step outside?
If Gates was any kind of real “intellectual”, he would have stayed inside.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 12:47 PM
I’ve posted on this Gates issue quite enough by now.
No idea how you all insist on overlooking the obvious.
This time I won’t insult everyone’s intelligence by being longwinded but instead point out just two facts that should be enough for everyone to derive the rest.
1. Gates has made his life study about race… he’s going to shoot first?
2. Obama, claiming he didn’t know the particulars… he’s going to shoot first?
COME ON PEOPLE! Is it because you think black people are all STUPID that you are missing the obvious? That means YOU are guilty of racism, and got suckered. Get with MLK and look to character, and you’ll see what’s going on.
Danzo on July 29, 2009 at 12:47 PM
If Gates could actually muster any sort of argument, he wouldn’t have resorted to “yo momma,” but alas, he’s pathetic and a waste of academic funding. Harvard should be ashamed to have him.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Considering you posted that Gates was arrested for breaking into his own house…
…I don’t think you have much room to be criticizing ANYONE’S quotes or arguments.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Certainly, especially when you also have him saying “you don’t know who you’re messing with” and “you haven’t heard the last of me” all when Crowley was still just investigating a possible break-in at the man’s home.
Exactly.
So I see you’re going with ad hominem, attacking the messenger and ignoring the message.
Does that mean you automatically disagree with David Duke anytime he says something as a default without thinking for yourself?
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 12:49 PM
I think we all know what kind of “intellectual” he really is.
Who are you arguing with?
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 12:51 PM
…Terry’s approach is almost, well, Gatesian. Throw reason to the wind and start drooling at the mouth, hoping someone pays attention.
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:51 PM
I generally disregard anything a David Duke or a Steve Sailer says about race. I have a hard time believing that they could give a objective opinion. If they want to talk about clouds then maybe I will consider their opinion.
Terry Silver on July 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM
That may be true, but then again, I find it hard to believe Gates (Teh Victim) could be objective…
Upstater85 on July 29, 2009 at 12:54 PM
Or perhaps everyone should eat meat because Hitler was a vegetarian.
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 12:54 PM
What are you basing this on?
Dash on July 29, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Right but I was specifically quoting Sailer on an aspect of police proceduralism. Whether Sailer hates Gates, or doesn’t, or hates all black people, or doesn’t, does not change the fact that the cops are going to want to stick around if a loud, angry husband may potentially put their spouse in danger.
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Basically he got arrested because he made the cop look foolish. Which isn’t a crime. He obviously got under the cops skin and got arrested.
Terry Silver on July 29, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Everybody has been loud and angry before in their home. It doesn’t mean that anybody is in danger though. Some people just need to vent.
Terry Silver on July 29, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Religious Zealot:
People aren’t forgetting that- it isn’t what happened. Crowley doesn’t even claim that’s what happened. Crowley says he responded to Gates’ (legal) request for his badge number by telling him if he wanted it he could come outside to the porch. And Crowley then arrested him on the porch, where he’d invited Gates to come.
Of course all the officers present agree with the arrest because most officers believe that being mouthy to a cop should be and is an arrestable offense.
Incidentally, Crowley never says he gave Gates his badge number at all- he says he repeated his name a couple of times, but he never mentions giving his badge number. This matters because that’s what Gates was asking for, and Crowley was required by law to give it. He could have left a card (which I believe he actually is required to carry) with that information (which I know he is required by law to provide when asked).
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Had the cop threated to handcuff him, then the story would be a bad example of a cop abusing power, but that’s not what happened. The cop threatened to SHOOT HIM DEAD, and in front of his kids for the crime of driving his own car without the smog inspection. That’s a prime example of abuse of power.
I do not believe telling a father in front of his kids that you will shoot him dead is an appropriate police response to a crime over paperwork and driving your own property. It’s not an appropriate police response for anything other than a threat to life, which is not what happened.
DeputyHeadmistress on July 29, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Except Sailer, in this instance, isn’t even talking about race.
It’s impossible for an opinion to be objective, but that doesn’t mean it’s automatically wrong either.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Why do you even bother? Your mind is made up as to what happened and you will ignore any facts presented that do not fit into that scenario. Heck – why even bother with facts at all – just state an uneducated opinion and keep repeating it until everyone else gives up.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 1:02 PM
And this matters HOW?
BTW – the officer was done with his investigation but Gates wasn’t through abusing the officer. The officer was leaving but Gates kept demanding to know his name (despite continually shouting over the officer’s response to the request).
Officer Crowley didn’t ASK Gates to follow him. He simply stated that if Gates wanted to continue to talk to him, it would have to be outside.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 1:02 PM
The college owns the house. Gates rents from the college. that’s why college workers were called to repair the door. (It’s in the police report.)
MarkTheGreat on July 29, 2009 at 1:03 PM
This is what happened, the cop was checking up on a breaking and entering call. The owner of the house was there and immedidately starting calling the cop a racist. The cop called for backup. The owner established that this was his house. The cop left. The owner followed the cop outside still calling him racist for doing his job. The cop arrested the owner. The president the called the cop racist for doing his job. The facts came out and now everyone on the left wants to blame the cop for doing his job.
The only racist ones here were gates and the black liberation theologist obama.
My total disrespect to both of them.
sonofdy on July 29, 2009 at 1:03 PM
It was lucky for Officer Crowley that Gates technically broke the law by creatring a public disturbance, allowing Crowley to arrest him in order to fulfill his true agenda: getting revenge on Gates for being made to look foolish.
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 1:03 PM
A police officer responding to a 911 call is not your counselor.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Following a cop outside your house (after a routine police inquiry) and continuing to rant and rave in front of a crowd of cops and civilians-you are subject to arrest under MA law. It is a discretionary arrest on the part of the cop. The standard in court would be the actual threat of inciting public danger. That standard would be hard to prove in court. Hence the dropping of charges. However, a valid arrest, by a cop using proper discretion to defuse a potentially dangerous situation. Gates is a d*ck.
wraithby on July 29, 2009 at 1:04 PM
ah, ok, makes sense.
Ozprey on July 29, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Terry Silver on July 29, 2009 at 12:45 PM
You can always tell when a liberal knows they have lost the argument. They start attacking the messenger instead of dealing with the message.
MarkTheGreat on July 29, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Actually, it IS what happened.
You should read the arrest report:
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 1:06 PM
I had to go outside because he was yelling, and the acoustics of the foyer made it difficult for the ECC to hear what I was saying. I told Gates that I was leaving, but if he had any questions, we could discuss them outside.
When I first knocked on the door, Gates lost his mind. He called my a racist, among other things, and finally decided to give me his ID, so I could verify that he lived there, after initially refusing. As soon as it was verified, I told him I was leaving, and he followed me outside, where I warned him twice that he was being disorderly, and that I would arrest him if he did not stop. I did not give him a third chance, so I arrested him.
…
Fish on July 29, 2009 at 1:06 PM
I know – I can almost hear his voice cracking when he says that everyone just has to vent sometimes. Liberal idiots all think it is about them all the time.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 1:06 PM
This “the charges were dropped so the police were wrong” is the laziest of logic.
The multitude of reasons for charges to be dropped have so many different possible motivations that to make the final conclusion that most fits your arguement is opportunistic and intellectually dishonest.
Couldn’t the charges have been dropped because…
…Gates is a personal friend of the Governor and President?
…prosecuting Gates in court for the charges would have been excessive when the arrest alone was enough to finally defuse the situation (apparently warning of arrest was not enough)?
…the police were being generous and letting Gates off after he finally calmed down?
Or many other possible reasons that have nothing to do with the police actually feeling that the arrest was unjustified. The fact is that the charges being dropped are not conclusive proof one way or the other.
Scrappy on July 29, 2009 at 1:07 PM
BTW over on huffpo they are placing all of the blame on the cop.
I am sure its because they think a white cop can’t help but be racist. Or they are protecting thier god obama.
sonofdy on July 29, 2009 at 1:07 PM
And just how did he do this? By calling the cop a racist?
MarkTheGreat on July 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I don’t understand the Hitchens position at all. Eliminate race, police officer, everything.
A guy is yelling at you. Do you either stand there and take it until he eventually tires out or turn your back and get in your car? I wouldn’t turn my back on a guy who was yelling at me unless I was extremely confident that he wouldn’t attack in some way.
jtdavies on July 29, 2009 at 1:09 PM
The only person he made look foolish was himself.
Scrappy on July 29, 2009 at 1:09 PM
probably both
cmsinaz on July 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Gates never asked for his badge number, just his name.
He was arrested after he CONTINUED to be loud and disruptive and AFTER two warnings from Officer Crowley.
From the police report:
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Yeah, the foolish cop responded to a 911 call and actually wanted to verify that the person in the house was the owner – how foolish of him. I hope that I get a foolish cop like that checking up on my house.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Terry Silver is not interested in what actualy happened, he is only interested in making the cop look like a racist and protecting his god, obama. You have all repeatly showed him from the records what happened but he doesn’t care.
He probably also doesn’t care if this cop is destroyed or not, just as long as THE ONE!!! does not have to admit that he was wrong.
sonofdy on July 29, 2009 at 1:13 PM
This country needs a third party just so conservatives can have someone to discuss issues with. Arguing a lefty is about as useful as debating a wet rock.
Ozprey on July 29, 2009 at 1:14 PM
IF he stole his own car and drove it away. You can’t threaten to put handcuffs on someone in a car that is speeding away from you.
Or you can, but it’s just stupid.
It’s also not an appropriate response by a citizen to threaten to steal his own car after failing to obey the law in regards to maintaining his vehicle. He doesn’t get to decide that he can wait to make necessary changes while still driving it.
As to the threat, I’d agree it wasn’t appropriate, but I wouldn’t call it abuse. Police aren’t allowed to shoot a citizen who isn’t a threat to their own life, but they are allowed to lie.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Remember, Terry also stated that Gates was arrested for breaking into his own house.
Which, of course, is just as bad as Allah and Ed claiming Gates was arrested INSIDE his house.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 1:16 PM
He went out of his way to say that he was not aware that this was the case in the Gates/Crowley incident.
I’m not saying Obama acted perfectly here. I think it would have been wiser for him to stay out of it. But let’s not criticize him for something he made sure to avoid doing.
orange on July 29, 2009 at 1:18 PM
A car is a deadly weapon, so if the officer thought the driver was driving AT him, he would have every right in shooting the driver.
This story is not an example of abuse of power, but of an idiot who thought they had more power (and rights) than the officer.
The idiot was escalating things badly and the officer used an extreme example to stop things before they got out of hand (in other words, he SCARED the idiot).
You know, I don’t understand why people like this believe they have right to be verbally abusive to the police, but the police have no right to be verbally abusive back to them.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Dash:
Crowley’s own account in the arrest report- Gates asks him multiple times for his name and badge number, and instead of giving them as asked and as required by law, Crowley says he will speak to him outside.
Based on Crowley’s own account, Gates was NOT following him as he was leaving, but was on his own porch (in response to Crowley’s claim that he would speak to Gates outside, which he did not then do)- Crowley had to come back to the porch to arrest him.
And he never did provide his badge number- which was required by law.
Contempt of cop is not a crime. I understand that Gates was stupid and bigoted, and that anybody who loudly mouths off to a cop can expect to get arrested for it. I don’t understand why conservatives think that’s a reasonable state of affairs.
DeputyHeadmistress on July 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM
#1: There was a report of a possible break-in;
#2: He wouldn’t show any identification;
#3: It was dropped because of political and racial pressure.
rlwo2008 on July 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM
No, he didn’t avoid doing it.
He tried to weasel out of it with those words, but by bringing up past racial injustices within the same discussion, he most certainly was injecting race into the issue.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 1:21 PM
This is a typical example of people liking cops only when they enforce the laws they agree with. The person clearly broke the law – but it was a law that they disagreed with so they thought they were right.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Oh, and BTW, I worked very closely with police and paramedics for 30 years as a community mental health clinician. I would trust my life with them. And I would show them my ID and credentials no matter what race they were.
rlwo2008 on July 29, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Again, according to the report:
- Gates only asked for his name, NOT his badge number
- Crowley DID give him his name, but Gates continued to talk over him.
- The investigation was over and Crowley was trying to leave the scene. He was followed by Gates NOT so that Gates could learn his name, but to continue to abuse and yell at him
- which in turn caused a public scene which resulted in not one, but TWO warnings to cool it, which Gates ignored.
Religious_Zealot on July 29, 2009 at 1:24 PM
It was a teaching moment because Obama believes that black people are being arrested all over the country for no reason at all. From what I have seen cops simply arrest those most likely to have committed the crime. If you look at the crime stats then you would see that arresting a couple of old white grandmas ever so often would do nothing to solve crimes.
It’s this stupid logic that allows single Middle Eastern men to board an airplane while an old white lady is searched.
I say profile ahead if it solves crimes; it’s stupid to ignore a significant piece of information out of fear of offending anyone.
dpierson on July 29, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Obama was asked a specific question about the Gates case which he used as a pretext to launch into a lecture about racial profiling. So how did he specifically avoid bringing race into it. Your parsing of Obama’s statement (taken as a whole) is not very honest.
Scrappy on July 29, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Early on in the incident, Officer Crowley repeatedly began to leave Gates’s house, but Gates stopped him, insisting that Crowley first tell him his name. But each time Crowley gave his name, Gates kept shouting so loudly that he couldn’t hear the officer’s answer. And when Crowley would again start to leave the house, Gates would again demand his name.
aengus on July 29, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Then why bring it up at all? There’s an obvious answer there.
That’s not accurate. If he’d made sure to avoid doing that, he wouldn’t have brought up race relations and police at all. But he did and therefore invites the criticism he’s received on it.
Sure, but, if we’re to believe the story, there’s no reason a cop would suspect that’s what he intended to do, as he said he would drive away with it, presumably away from the cop.
But that’s assuming we even believe this person who is mad that a cop was following the law when he wasn’t.
I agree with that.
Because they want police to be our servants because we pay them even though no other government official even pretends to be our employees. The single cops out for this, because we give them guns but ignore those to whom we give the power to take away our rights.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 1:27 PM
It’s the law, not a reasonable state.
Again, if you want to discuss whether or not it should be illegal, that’s a separate discussion.
Esthier on July 29, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Well the Israeli’s haven’t lost a passenger plane in how many years? Yes, it’s because of extreme profiling, not random pulls from the line of passengers. So in some cases I most definitely agree.
Ozprey on July 29, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Actually according to the arrest report Crowley tries to answer Gates request on numerous occasions but is shouted over each time. Doesn’t sound to me like it’s information Gates wasn’t very interested in actually getting.
Scrappy on July 29, 2009 at 1:30 PM
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