Voinovich: The GOP’s been taken over by southerners
posted at 9:59 pm on July 28, 2009 by Allahpundit
This ought to go over well.
“We got too many Jim DeMints (R-S.C.) and Tom Coburns (R-Ok.). It’s the southerners. They get on TV and go ‘errrr, errrrr.’ People hear them and say, ‘These people, they’re southerners. The party’s being taken over by southerners. What they hell they got to do with Ohio?’,” Voinovich said.
Salon notes that Voinovich is not the sole Republican speaking out against the regional isolation. Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty acknowledged last year that the Republicans were facing increasingly difficult competition in large parts of the country, including Voinovich’s Ohio.
“We cannot be a majority governing party when we essentially cannot compete in the Northeast, we are losing our ability to compete in Great Lakes states, we cannot compete on the West Coast, we are increasingly in danger of competing in the mid-Atlantic states, and the Democrats are now winning some of the Western states,” Pawlenty said.
Dan Gilgoff thinks he’s using code to take a shot at evangelicals. I don’t. It’s more a matter of cultural divides complicating the idea of representation. The more like you your government spokesman is, the more comfortable you’ll feel that he or she’s looking out for your particular interests. It’s not a question of religion, it’s a question of everything that informs regional differences. But Voinovich will be pilloried anyway for bringing it up, partly because he’s got a record as a RINO and therefore is presumptively wrong on everything and partly because rural “authenticity” is such a powerful meme these days in grassroots politics. The south, being the font of rural authenticity (of which “traditional values” is a key ingredient), is basically beyond reproach, so in theory you really can’t have too many southerners. Exit question: Is Massachusetts/Michigan Mitt the solution?
Blowback
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I find it funny that the very same people who whine about needing a big tent whenever moderates are criticized, will leap with joy whenever someone suggests that conservatives need to be pushed out of the party.
MarkTheGreat on July 29, 2009 at 10:19 AM
The GOP is out of power. It has been resoundingly defeated in two back to back elections. Yet, anytime someone tries to suggest that changes are needed if we are going to win again, immediate outrage ensues. How in the world is the GOP EVER going to get its act together?!
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Why are you acting this stupid? Can you articulate no traditional American values? Why play an idiot game of “universal” versus “traditional”?
Whose fault is it that the South is stronger as a conservative region? Hmmmm….????
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Right. It was a diabolical plan for Southerners to take over the GOP.
His statement isn’t insulting to me, I find it to be rather stupid. Instead of Voinovich pointing fingers, he needs to look in the mirror.
Perhaps the nation should be looking at how they strayed from conservatisim so the party isn’t dominiated by one region.
moonsbreath on July 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM
You know, Voinovich, instead of b!tching about Southerners, maybe you should spend your, errr errr, energy lobbying the Energy Department to save legitimate “clean energy” jobs in your home state of Ohio that are about to be lost. Jackass.
Buy Danish on July 29, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Any ideas that are truely universal, don’t need to be imposed.
MarkTheGreat on July 29, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Nope–he just needs to retire. The sooner the GOP is rid of its corrupt dead weight (Lott, Stevens, Craig, Foley, Voinovich, etc) the better. If Ohio republicans are smart, they’ll vote this guy out at the next primary if he’s not announced his retirement already. Of course Ohio and Pennsylvania voted for “I’ll bankrupt the coal industry” and “no clean coal” Obama/Biden, so I question the intelligence and sanity of OH and PA voters.
But Voinovich (remember his boo-hoo fest a while back?) is just taking a swipe at DeMint, Coburn, Sessions, etc because they are effective and honorable. Voinovich hasn’t been either for a long, long time.
I’m not a social conservative and want the big tent–but the tent doesn’t have to be big enough to include dishonorable jerks like Voinovich.
funky chicken on July 29, 2009 at 10:27 AM
A
So, we don’t need laws…? I’m beginning to wonder if you are too stupid to live.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Using your example.
Murder was already illegal in all states. There was no need for the Feds to force states to make it illegal.
MarkTheGreat on July 29, 2009 at 10:28 AM
Actually, you are right. The problem is that he didn’t come out and say he was interested in broadening the GOP’s regional appeal and spreading the word about the party’s goals….you know…outreach….
He ripped his fellow GOP Senators and made fun of the way they talk like an elitist liberal. That’s why people are angry. No kidding, its not a good thing to be the party that represents one region. Fiscal conservatism, limited government, personal accountability, freedom and liberty are universal values.
Apparently in today’s political climate, so are hyperbole, vitriol, demogoguery….even on one’s own party.
Seriously, I have to believe some Blue Dogs think Nancy Pelosi is a loon but not even they rip her apart with these petty, idiodic attacks.
If someone with the bully pulpit of a US Senator wants to affect change, the right way to do it isn’t not impugn one’s own party, especially with low class verbal bombs of this sort.
Texas74 on July 29, 2009 at 10:29 AM
Can’t tell who you are talking to, or what about.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 10:29 AM
I forgot Chafee. Another dumb thing the GOP did over the last few years–spend tons of money helping Chafee and Specter win primaries. Gah.
funky chicken on July 29, 2009 at 10:29 AM
I don’t know where you live but here in Texas the evangelicals do dominate the party. Just about every Republican meeting I have attended has turned into some kind of testimony for Jesus. Also, take a look at the Texas GOP platform:
I dont’ support same sex marriage but I don’t see why it is necessary to state in a political party platform that gays “spread dangerous, communicable diseases”. This hateful language is a turn off to many people like me who don’t believe it is anybody’s business what consenting adults do in their bedroom.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 10:31 AM
What’s the average age in the Sentate—91? Geez, can we add an old fart amdendment to the Constitution? Voinivich looks like he was dug up in a Civil War cemetery. And he crys, too. I’m tired of these relics in the GOP telling us who we should elect and who we shouldn’t. How about letting us decide that? I don’t need some RINO with “mood swings” telling me who our next candidate should be.
Redneck Woman on July 29, 2009 at 10:33 AM
OK, now we’re getting down to the real stuff. As a Texas conservative, I can’t remember a political meeting I’ve been to where religion was discussed at all…whatsoever.
AIDS is spread preponderantly by homosexual activity. That is SCIENCE. SCIENCE is not “hateful”. It is not hateful to try to prevent the spread or acquisition of a deadly, wasting disease.
A lot of people think they should be allowed to diddle children, too. Sorry, it is not a bad thing to oppose that.
Is that a traditional value we can agree upon?
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Any time I hear this childish term used I know I am dealing with an MTV baby.
Hate to break it to you, but this “hateful” language is 100% fact. If we had dealt honestly with the AIDS problem a lot of innocent people would not have suffered so much. That is fact. There is no debate about it. However, we had
milquetoast, PC people like yourself too concerned with being trendy to speak out about it.
Oh, and for the record I am an athiest so save your predictable christian bashing response for another poster.
ClassicCon on July 29, 2009 at 10:40 AM
i don’t listen to “men” that cry.
LtE126 on July 29, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Heh
I haven’t seen anything about Bolton to dislike. An antidote for wimp overload.
True. Obama struggles against the imposition of cheap symbols of patriotism like the flag.
Such a shame ‘southerners’ impose values while ‘non southerners’ restrain their urges to control
‘Southerners’ tend impose values like the second amendment and freedom of religion. They are apologists for the Bill of Rights, an archaic rigid document that should be replaced with a living breathing document
They still think they can use religious expression in public places, say as military chaplains, and tend to side with the colonialists against public nudity. Repressive, regressive and foolishly too many are still willing to die for their country. Can’t stand them
entagor on July 29, 2009 at 10:43 AM
What change is Voinovich suggesting? When was the last time the GOP acted like a conservative party on the domestic front? The smaller government, fiscal conservatives did not cost the GOP power, the people whining about “Southerners” and Conservatives are the ones that did, with their spending, expansion of government, and pandering to the Dems. The very issues that are driving the opposition to Obama and the Dems and it’s working. Voinivich and company are simply unwilling to accept that it is they and their policies/attitude that are being rejected.
Second, when did Oklahoma become the South?
John_R on July 29, 2009 at 10:46 AM
There are plenty of diseases being spread by heterosexuals. There is no need to mention that in a political document. Let the AMA deal with diseases.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 10:51 AM
arguable point….I don’t think fiscal cons are an electoral turn-off, but hard core social cons are pretty off-putting to a lot of folks
The GOP can’t say it is the party of small government and embrace big-government social conservatism at the same time and achieve national success very often.
funky chicken on July 29, 2009 at 10:51 AM
Southerners have a bad habit of implying that unless you wear religion on your sleeve, you are Godless. Unless you constantly wrap yourself in the flag, you are unpatriotic. Their holier than thou attitude is a turnoff to voters in other parts of the country who are conservatives.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 10:56 AM
I did not know that this was the party platform on homosexuality. I think that statement is perfect concerning how I feel about homosexuality in the political arena.
How is it ‘hateful language’ to tell someone the truth. It is a FACT that homosexual activity leads to a greater incidence of AIDS (much like intravenous drug use).
Has it been ‘hateful language’ all these years that the surgeon general has forced tobacco companies to label their product with ‘this may cause cancer’? Homosexuality leads to a greater risk of AIDS. . . they need to come with a warning label. It’s not hateful to tell the truth.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Hey, nice shot at moral equivalency, skippy. There are LOTS of societal costs that go with AIDS that you don’t BEGIN to have with clap.
There are A LOT of social ills that come with a homosexual life-style, as well. Read up a little.
Should be ban homosexuals, jail them, outlaw sodomy? Been there, tried that. Did not work. Does that mean we should not persuade against mainstreaming it? Dunno. Should we try to persuade against domestic violence? Or is that private conduct? Maybe we should leave that to the AMA?
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Spot on! The SoCon agenda is in direct conflict to the concept of limited government and individual freedom. As you say, the SoCon agenda is a different version of big government. The liberals want to tell you what house and car you should have. The SoCons want to tell you how to run your bedroom.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:00 AM
WOW! have you been to the South? We are rednecks, beers, fast cars, and fast women. We love God, but we know of a lot of Christians who wouldn’t be considered ‘holier than thou’.
Most Southerners are proud to be Christian and not ashamed to let you know it. Most aren’t ‘holier than thou’, we just love God. And we are thankful to be American because none of us chose to be born in this great nation. It was all by the grace of God that we are here. God can take it away in a second. IT is a love and fear of God that makes Southerners strong.
We only judge other people who judge us. Like YOU.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Bullspit. You sound like you have a lot of trouble living in Texas, son. Kind of a cultural disjunction. Maybe you’d like Boston better.
Love ya, long time. DLTDHYA
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:03 AM
How so? Give me details, not Michael Moore inspired generalizations…
ClassicCon on July 29, 2009 at 11:04 AM
I am not the least surprised that a NY’er agrees with Voinovich on this.
It’s like Rush says about balance… As far as I’m concerned, in society, and in politics, Southerns ARE the balance. We are looked upon by everyone else in society as Bible-thumping, abortion-hating, gun-totin’ rednecks. And frankly, I’m sick of it. Voinovich, and those like him can stuff it.
I can be represented by a “Yankee” in congress if he/she sticks to his/her CONSERVATIVE principles. Until this moment I never considered one’s home state as reason to not support (except maybe Massachussetts – because I don’t trust any politician that’s drunk the water in that state). This is just idiotic.
The only word I can think of here is “regionist”.
tickleddragon on July 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM
What mental gymnastics! You cannot compare the behavior of consenting adults with domestic violence. You either believe in individual freedom or you don’t. You either believe in limited government or you don’t.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM
REGIONISTS!!
:)
tickleddragon on July 29, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Many support sodomy laws.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Freedom means not using the government to force you or your children to accept a lifestyle that is at its core OFFENSIVE to them. Nobody is here trying to police anyone’s bedroom. But the homosexual community is trying to use what they do in their bedroom to gain political advantage in public.
Hate Crimes legislation is an example. If someone murders me, it should carry as much weight as if someone murders a gay guy. The gay guy is more equal because of what he does in his bedroom. I didn’t go into his bedroom and tell him what not to do.
Homosexuals want to go into elementary school rooms and teach kids before they even know what sex is that ‘they might be gay’. That is offensive. Nobody is saying to discriminate. But the government only looks in your bedroom when it is to give gay people extra political favors that they wouldn’t get if they were straight.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 11:11 AM
You mean you never heard southerners talking about how they are the most patriotic Americans? Or how they are the “real Americans” or “real Virginians”? Just because you fly the flag, it doesn’t mean you love this country more than people who are less extrovert about their patriotism.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Yeah sorta like the Baathist’s plans for Iraq and Syria, how did that work out? I suspect, Brother Kafir, that your thesis, as applies to Chrisian faith, is exactly backward – that is, as modern societies move away from the conservative moral principles taught by the Christian religions, said societies become increasingly more decadent. I point toward dying Europe as a case in point.
“Let’s Roll”
On Watch on July 29, 2009 at 11:14 AM
I dunno what favors. I have no problem with gays being able to insure their partners, inheritance and the like. I couldn’t care less. My point is that SoCons and Liberals are alike. They both want to use the power of government to impose their values on everybody. Any true conservative would oppose a big government agenda no matter from which direction it comes from.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:15 AM
You must be quite young, AND stupid.
Domestic violence involves two people, and the victim is most often there by choice, and stays by choice.
Limited government does NOT mean we all suck our teeth about issues that negatively impact our civil society, as Levin so aptly puts it.
There is a difference between the expression of people’s values (which you seem to deplore), and an effort to compel you to live them. You are too stupid yet to discern that difference.
Find a place where you are more comfortable. Please. Leave Texas ASAP.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:15 AM
DING DING DING. Look at the Western intermountain rural states which were solidly Republican for a long time starting to go Democrat (Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, Colorado). These states were Republican when the Deep South social/evangelicals were completely Democrat. Places like Idaho and Montana were when Republican Party was about getting government out of your life.
You just cant say Small Government and Social Conservatism in the same sentence.
As much as the Social Conservatives/Evangelicals think they are the basis of the Republican Party, they have only been in the GOP for a short time historically, they were Democrats for a long time. Lets not forget Social Conservatives did not even support the GOP and Gerald Ford in 76, they got behind the Democratic Party and Jimmy Carter. Thanks a lot for that one, Social Conservatives.
firepilot on July 29, 2009 at 11:15 AM
You are right, we live in quite the purtanical society now thanks to those SoCons. I mean, 5th graders are giving blowjobs in the middle of class, you can watch porn on your Iphone with a few thumbtaps, prostitutes are just a few mouse clicks away, you are not cool unless you leak your sex tape.
Anything short of the right to sodomize a chicken, dressed as a boy scout, singing NWA’s Fook The Police while marching down mainstreet is seen as SoConn’s reigning in on your good time by hipsters such as yourself.
Oh, and my wife was stuck by an AIDS needle at work. So you and the AMA can go fook yourself. I promise, I won’t try to prevent it.
ClassicCon on July 29, 2009 at 11:16 AM
I don’t agree with hate crime legislation and hate speech legislation. It is an attempt to regulate people’s thoughts.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:16 AM
What are you going on about? What part of “consenting adults” don’t you understand? Sodomy laws were designed to prosecute homosexual behavior. It is an example of regulating people’s bedroom.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:18 AM
This is funny. You answer your original question with your next sentence. Gays are able to insure their partners in state governments all over the country (including NC and the South). If I am a straight couple who hasn’t married, my partner gets no benefits.
Inheritance is generally distributed through an executable will without regard to the sexuality of the person who wrote the will.
But these laws are just the beginning. The gay community gets special benefits because of what they do in their bedroom. If they extend ‘gay marriage’, then that’s just another special privilege they get FROM THE GOVERNMENT because of what they do in their bedroom.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 11:20 AM
Bingo! Unless the GOP recognizes this they are doomed. Pretty soon, they will begin to lost Texas as the Hispanic population grows. And the idea that the GOP can appeal to Hispanic based on social issues…. well, just take a look at the last election. Whigs here we come!
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:22 AM
And a fair number of GOP events do more and more seem like church socials. There are plenty of us agnostic heathens who lean right and have nothing in common with Democratic Party, but have little in common with social conservatives either.
firepilot on July 29, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Not nearly as much as I’ve heard people like you claiming they can’t get away from it.
Ever spent any time in Virgina, sonny. People there, like in Texas, have a sense of place…at tie to their state. You won’t find that in Iowa or Indiana, in my EXPERIENCE.
Yeah, it kinda does. If someone bothers themselves to fly the flag…especially properly…it is no great stretch to conclude they are more moved by patriotism than their neighbor who can’t be bothered with that mawkish stuff. It isn’t a dead bang certainty, but it is highly suggestive.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Southerners like Palin and Romney? Or McCain and Kyl in Arizona? Where’s Boehner from? Or Tim Pawlenty?
It might be good for the party if some more of the southern GOP folks would step up. I think Jeff Sessions is doing a great job. Many of those folks still believe that the federal government can’t solve all problems, and that hard work counts for something.
hawksruleva on July 29, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Son! Sodomy laws were declared unconstitutional YEARS ago. You are tilting at windmills.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Yawn, another Gen Y hipster is sick of Christians. Broken record. And why agnostic? Too sissy to go full athiest like myself?
ClassicCon on July 29, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Wait. You are claiming the Intermountain West is NOT socially conservative?
Where are you from, Kulifornia?
There’s a WHOLE lot of misinformation go’in on here…!!!!
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Don’t actions speak louder than words? Obama said he was patriotic, and wouldn’t stoop to wearing an American flag pin. Now he’s on the “blame America first” tour. McCain fought and suffered for his country. I think you can ABSOLUTELY say McCain loves his country more. The proof is in their actions.
Lots of libs talk about how they’re “just as patriotic”. Really? What have they done for their country? Libs run for office because of the power it brings them. They pass welfare programs to buy votes, not help their constituents. To the extent that’s true of GOP pols, it’s part of what’s wrong with our party.
If all you’ve ever done is talk about what’s wrong with America, I’m free to question your patriotism until put some muscle to work to make America better.
hawksruleva on July 29, 2009 at 11:31 AM
My point is that SoCons want to reinstate those laws. Again, from the Texas GOP platform:
Someone asked for examples of the SoCons wanting to regulate people’s bedrooms. I think I made my case. The only reason said language made it in the Texas GOP platform it is because the party is dominated by evangelicals who see the GOP has a means to impose their morality on everybody.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:31 AM
When people say “freedom isn’t free” they usually mean it has to be fought for and protected. However, there is more to it than that. We are forced to deal with people who choose to exercise their freedoms to do some really stupid crap. There is a fine line in legislating behavior. Obviously, when you murder someone, it is apparent you have infringed upon the rights of someone else. Duh. When you choose to engage in practices that are contrary to both a human’s biological imparative as well as Judeo-Christian morals, thats quite a bit different.
There is something much larger at work here and we are picking at the edges of it in a petty fashion. The most critical ideas of conservatism are fiscal responsibility, personal accountability, individual rights, freedom and liberty with a limited federal government. Right?
Its quite a stretch to cite the above ideals and then in the same breath denounce personal choices, no matter how personally offensive they may be, because it amounts to imposing your will on other people.
Texas74 on July 29, 2009 at 11:34 AM
Chekote, as a southerner, I’ll pray for you….I’ll pray for you to go back to where you came from.
moonsbreath on July 29, 2009 at 11:34 AM
This has been a wonderful little demonstration.
There are people here bitching about some conservatives trying to “impose” their values on them.
What’s apparent is that there is no imposition at all. You whiners don’t have the strength of your own convictions, and you want to muzzle people who live theirs.
You really need to man up, or join the collective.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:35 AM
This has been a wonderful little demonstration.
There are people here b!tching about some conservatives trying to “impose” their values on them.
What’s apparent is that there is no imposition at all. You whiners don’t have the strength of your own convictions, and you want to muzzle people who live theirs.
You really need to man up, or join the collective.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:35 AM
And, son, it ain’t gonna happen. No worry. I’d oppose any push in that direction on principle. So would most of us awful conservatives you can’t seem to abide.
And…hate to be the first to tell you…sodomy is not exclusively a homosexual practice.
Ever hear the term “precatory language”. Look it up.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Chekote, don’t you believe that states have the right to be different? Or should all states be required to have the same policies on sodomy and porn as, say, California?
My point is that the Texas GOP is primarily concerned with reflecting the views of Texans. What works for them may not work for the GOP in Arizona or Maine. That’s part of why states exist. If Texas is too religious for you, move to Vermont.
hawksruleva on July 29, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Now THAT would be an education…
I’ll pay your bus fare.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Well said. There is an ugly side of freedom and that is people doing things that I find objectionable and immoral. Still, freedom is the best course.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:45 AM
When I was growing up in Texas and attended a Southern Baptist church as a kid, I remember the doom and gloom being preached and how it was going to be a complete disaster for our city, if “liquor by the drink” passed, to where you could just go into a bar and have a drink, without some silly “private club” law. Last I checked, Wichita Falls is still there, and did not incur and fire and brimstone shower. There are still some dry counties and towns in Texas too.
And those great Blue Laws too, that kept things closed on sundays, or that you could only buy certain things. Churches have no business with trying to control what days stores can be open, or if you can have a drink.
Hell there are still places where it is probably illegal to dance.
And now that I live in the intermountain West, you have LDS towns where sale of alcohol is not always easy either. Mormons and Evangelicals do have more in common than they realize. There are jokes about how many in both groups like to drink unless they are being seen doing it. (How do you keep a Mormon from drinking your beer on a fishing trip…Bring two Mormons. When do two Baptists not wave at each other? When the spot each other in the same liquor store)
firepilot on July 29, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Thank goodness he is retiring.
Vaporman87 on July 29, 2009 at 11:47 AM
But you confuse freedom with license. They are not the same.
Were our Founders anti-freedom? From where do you suppose those laws you deplore derived? Please…
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM
When I first came to Texas we had “dry” and “wet” cities with respect to the sale of alcohol. With each election, the number of “dry” cities keeps diminishing. Also, lotto was illegal and certain goods could not be sold on Sunday. All those laws have been repealed. So why should I leave when the wind in on my back.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:50 AM
In the case of blacks, yes.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:51 AM
So, according to your position, communities of people who have values at variance with yours have no business codifying them.
That ain’t federalism, son.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:52 AM
You guys are spinning lies out your ass. What Big Government policy was generated by a social conservative philosophy?
Let’s list the worst of the worst:
1. Ban Abortion
2. Bring back Anti-Sodomy laws
3. Prayer in School specifically encouraged.
4. Ban adoption by homosexuals.
5. The Ten Commandments on almost every public building.
What have you got… The America we were at our most vigorous and expansive, that’s what. The America with income tax under 10% and governments local, state and federal, a fraction of the size they are now.
It’s you cowards without social values who also lack the spine to fight off the authoritarianism of the left. Haven’t you noticed fool almost every dollar they take from you is used to promote “Social Justice”? You “fiscal conservatives” end up being the first to cave when assaulted as mean-spirited or narrow-minded. Us mean, narrow, hard-ass Christians don’t give a damn what they call us. We fight back and we don’t give in; ever.
This is conservatism’s Gideon moment. We need to let the dogs leave. Keep the Faith. We’re better off going to war with men than curs.
rcl on July 29, 2009 at 11:52 AM
So now you want to “license” private behavior involving consenting adults?
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 11:53 AM
{sigh}
That’s my Senator.
Retire, already, will ya? (On second thought, don’t, because the OH governor is a dem, so we’ll get another Al Franken clone as a replacement.)
GoHskrs on July 29, 2009 at 11:55 AM
It would be more apt to say it whistles…unimpeded…through your ears.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:55 AM
You’ve every right to stay, and to try and get the city to adopt your views. But everybody ELSE has that same right. So what you’re complaining about is actually freedom at work; when more people care enough about issue X, they pass laws reflecting their views. Having dry counties and wet counties is wonderful, as is having stores choose to close early or all day on Sunday. That’s their right.
hawksruleva on July 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM
And THERE WE HAVE IT. . . mr wind at his back is going to fix this ‘not free’ country so that it is more free than the founders set up.
Mr. ‘wind at your back’. . . guess what. A lot of Muslims are coming into this country to be ‘free’ and they will outlaw homosexuality outright.
If you think the younger generation will support you, I invite you to watch this video clip of a gay person being harrassed by teens in Minnesota. Please note the two police walking right through the crowd with absolutely no effect on the teens harrassing the gay guy. . . and no ability to ‘enforce’ a law.
Here’s the wind at your back. You best enjoy the freedom you have now while the Christians are still able to give it to you.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Wonderful. Is there any state that isn’t suffering from a degradation of morals?
Dark-Star on July 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM
No, dummy, “license” as in “permissiveness”. Where ARE you from…?!?!?
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM
It is way past time for Voinovich to retire. His teary eyed blocking of John Bolton was asinine. His current attack on Southerners is dumb.
Does he think his hometown of Cleveland, Ohio is something to brag about? Cleveland seems to have gone way downhill again.
Ohio has far better Republicans than Voinovich.
Phil Byler on July 29, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Wrong. The Texas GOP is primarily concerned with catering to evangelicals. In the last election, we have lost solid Republican areas in North Dallas. Part of it has to do with the increase in the Hispanic population. The rest has to do with people tiring of the preaching and moralizing.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Drinking alcohol is a degradation of morals? Are you suggesting we bring back prohibition?
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:02 PM
I forgot about that. Crying like a little girl trying to block John Bolton. Yeah, we really need more men like Voinovich in the US Senate /sarc
Norwegian on July 29, 2009 at 12:02 PM
I would really like to know how Voinovich’s derogatory “errrr, errrr” differs or is any way more uneducated than Obama’s “uh, er, uh, uh?”
Oklahoma has always been considered Southwest or Southcentral; never midwest – that’s Chicago, Cleveland, and Dayton. It fought on both sides in the war of yankee aggression.
Old Country Boy on July 29, 2009 at 12:03 PM
chekote. . . click on the link to see what the decidedly non-Christian people in Minnesota think about homosexuality. Before you blame Christians for allowing you the freedoms that you have, check out how it is in other non-Christian countries.
Rethink whether or not you want to live in a Christian country that protects your rights as they are now.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Christianity has NOTHING to do with what items you sell on Sunday or alcohol sales. Give it a break!
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:04 PM
He and David Frum ought to get together and go bowling.
Sammy316 on July 29, 2009 at 12:04 PM
So, your position is to expunge people from the party…or tell them their values have no place in YOUR party, so sit down, shut up, and vote the way you wish?
Hmmm…
And you’re Mr. Freedom…???
Hate to break it to you, but REPUBLICANS were swept from power because THEY ABUSED POWER and forgot what it means to ACT like conservatives.
Boy.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Chekote:
Why don’t you give Christians a break. Look at the 700 people killed in Iraq since 2004 BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY. Look at Iran who hangs gay people. View that video clip of Muslims in Minnesota – being free.
The problem is that you blame Christians for your problems, when Christians allow you to live how you want to live. . . but it will never be enough. Eventually the gay community will beg the Christians to come to their defense against other religions. It’s fun to bite the hand that feeds you though isn’t it?
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Alcohol sales have increased crime in every county that it has been introduced. That doesn’t have anything to do with Christianity.
Lotteries are a regressive tax and false hope given to poor people who can’t afford it. Lotteries do best in the poorest areas of society.
There are religious reasons to oppose these things, but there are rational secular reasons too.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Our rights are protected by the Constitution not the New Testament. What is happening is that we are allowing multiculturalism to corrode our rights.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:10 PM
Voinovich has obviously never been to the south, especially Florida, to visit his relatives and a large % of his former constituents who have moved here! What an ass!
rhbandsp on July 29, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Really? I’d love to agree, but I haven’t seen any evidence of the Constitution being used since at least November.
Or am I mistaken…?
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM
This is really getting tiresome. Everytime someone makes the point that the SoCon agenda is basically a big government agenda, people like you start wailing about me being anti-Christian. ENOUGH! The GOP has become the party of identity politics (real Americans vs. elites) and victimhood (Christian are under assault). Give it a rest and start discussing the issues with less emotionalism.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM
If you don’t see the fact that healtcare and cap and trade were stopped even though the Dems control everything as a victory for the Constitution, I can’t help you.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Wrong and right. Our true ‘rights’ come from our Creator. The Constitution, by itself, is nothing more than a sheet of paper written by men. And what one man gives another man can take away for any number of reasons.
But no argument on multiculturalism…there is strength in sameness, and we’ve foolishly thrown that idea by the wayside.
Dark-Star on July 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Wait a minute, now I’m confused. Maybe you can help me understand your position. Let me check the time stamps:
11:51 – you claim that the Constitution doesn’t protect freedoms because of slavery.
12:10 – you hold up the Constitution as the thing that protects your freedoms.
Do you have a history of making bad personal decisions that contradict themselves? I make secular arguments. . . you make arguments against ‘Christianity’ and ‘evangelicals’ with no facts other than your hatred for Christians.
ThackerAgency on July 29, 2009 at 12:16 PM
I grew up in a family where we were taught to use alcohol responsibly. Nothing better than a fine glass of wine with a great meal. Relax. Go have a drink on me.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Nope. Federalism is a pluralistic concept. It does NOT require an all-powerful CENTRAL government.
The development of an out of control CENTRAL government requires…it is an organizational reality…that every fight HAS to be a blood fight, because all the marbles are in play.
Under federalism, states and communities are ALLOWED to express the values of their people.
See?
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM
You asked whether the Founders were against freedom. I said in the case of blacks, yes. Anyway, I am done for today. Have a great day everyone.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM
You know what I would love to see? The GOP taken over by select Blue Dogs!!! ROFL
bluefox on July 29, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Maybe the northern moderates need to put more “grrrrrr” in their speeches and efforts.
Usually when you are fighting for something important, a little effort helps.
Fat cats are just dinner for the big dogs….
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Oh, sonny, I require no help from you. And if you think anybody is Washington is paying the least attention to the Constitution, you’re even dumber than I thought.
Ragspierre on July 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Well, when the Northern Republicans all turned out to be either corrupt or feckless RINOs, this is what we get.
Maybe Voinovich should have talked to his Ohio pal Bob Ney about not jumping into bed with Jack Abramoff, or to his pal Mike Oxley about actually doing some oversight of Citigroup and AIG while he was Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, before they ran the economy off the cliff.
rockmom on July 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Is he suggesting a “Northern strategy” of sorts for the GOP?
Yeah, that’ll work (rolls eyes).
cs89 on July 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM
So unless the GOP caters to evangelicals, who were latecomers to the GOP anyways, then it is tantamount to expunging them?
What about non-evangelical Christians, or Catholics, or Agnostics, Hindus, Atheists, Pastafarians, Pagans, etc.
I do not think the GOP should have to be held hostage by some evagenicals, who demand their way over the party. I would rather see the GOP be about common-sense small government ideas and policies that anyone of any religion, or lack thereof can get behind.
If the GOP becomes an evangelicial-centric organization, it is doomed to just being a regional entity.
firepilot on July 29, 2009 at 12:25 PM
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