Of course Obama’s a natural-born citizen, says … Jim DeMint?
posted at 5:05 pm on July 28, 2009 by Allahpundit
Big Jim? Reddest of red-state Republicans? A man who once said he wouldn’t mind if the Democrats held 70 seats in the Senate so long as the 30 GOP seats were occupied by small-government conservatives? That Jim DeMint?
On Monday, however, the South Carolina Republican found himself defending Barack Obama from the fringier elements of his own political party: the conspiracy theorists who insist the president was not born in the United States.
“I may have disagreements with [the president] on issues,” DeMint told the Huffington Post. “But he is my president, he deserves our respect, and we need forget that nonsense …
“He is not only a citizen,” he added, “he is our president.”
Current status of DeMint’s Constitution-abiding “true conservative” credentials: Shaky. Fortunately for believers, there are more than a dozen other congressmen who now question the official story willing to pick up his slack. Something for discussion in the comments: What exactly is the theory about the Certificate of Live Birth that Obama has produced? It’s obviously based on some sort of original documentary information in Hawaii’s possession, be it a contemporaneous statement from the doctor who delivered him or affidavits from his parents and/or grandparents that he was born in Honolulu. Let’s say it’s the latter. What then? How exactly is evidence that’s accepted by a U.S. state as proof of birth somehow insufficient to qualify one for the presidency?
Update: I’m sure National Review’s “true conservative” credentials would be revoked for this editorial if not for the fact that they were revoked long ago for being snobby elitist east coast New York/Beltway cocktail-party attenders or whatever.
If one applies for a United States passport, the passport office will demand a birth certificate. It defines this as an official document bearing “your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records.” The Hawaiian birth certificate President Obama has produced—the document is formally known as a “certificate of live birth”—bears that information. It has been inspected by reporters, and several state officials have confirmed that the information in permanent state records is identical to that on the president’s birth certificate—which is precisely what one expects, of course, since the state records are used to generate those documents when they are requested. In other words, what President Obama has produced is the “real” birth certificate of myth and lore. The director of Hawaii’s health department and the registrar of records each has personally verified that the information on Obama’s birth certificate is identical to that in the state’s records, the so-called vault copy. Given that fact, we are loath even to engage the fanciful notion that President Obama was born elsewhere, contrary to the information on his birth certificate, but we note for the record that his mother was a native of Kansas, whose residents have been citizens of the United States for a very long time, and whose children are citizens of the United States as well.
Blowback
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No. Who is he and do you have his birth certificate?
Pablo on July 28, 2009 at 8:04 PM
He’s the White House Press Secretary, he’s a huge douchebag, and if his birth certificate were necessary for him to be appointed to that position, as per the Constitution of the United States, I’d want to see it.
Jim Treacher on July 28, 2009 at 8:06 PM
1. There aren’t too many Republicans who are keen on calling him out in a forceful manner, and those who do (Palin, DeMint, Inhofe, Bachmann, Pence, etc.) are given the “crazy” tag too, while the Voinoviches, Snowes, and Collinses are tossed rose petals.
2. Bigotry has nothing to do with wanting to see the 1961 document. Exhibit A: Me.
Tool.
L.N. Smithee on July 28, 2009 at 8:07 PM
Obama should appoint a Birth Certificate Czar…
elgeneralisimo on July 28, 2009 at 8:08 PM
Remember the irony of the minimal requirements to be employed as a staffer at the White House? If BHO wasn’t elected, he couldn’t have been hired!
L.N. Smithee on July 28, 2009 at 8:09 PM
He’d have trouble becoming a TSA screener, let alone a White House staffer. But don’t bring it up!
Jim Treacher on July 28, 2009 at 8:11 PM
I know you’re black, LN. You’ve been at Patterico’s forever. I wasn’t replying to you. If I were, I’d have quoted you instead of quoting dpierson. (And I wasn’t calling him a bigot either, merely pointing out another foolish avenue of “attack”) And I’m not gonna call you a tool, because I like you.
Pablo on July 28, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Hey, maybe if they all demanded the vault copy of his BC….
Oh wait. Just read the post again. Never mind.
Pablo on July 28, 2009 at 8:16 PM
Perfect.
The PERFECT anti-’Nirther.
Allah be praised.
Oh. Shut up Pablo.
Stephen M on July 28, 2009 at 8:21 PM
Reading is fundamental Stephen. Try it, and shut up.
Pablo on July 28, 2009 at 8:26 PM
This is pretty good. MKH says Andrew Sullivan is right. Sort of. From the Weekly Standard.
Terrye on July 28, 2009 at 8:26 PM
FTFY Jim. No thanks are necessary.
john1schn on July 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM
I don’t care if the Presdent of the United States dismisses it….oh wait…
katy on July 28, 2009 at 8:29 PM
Welcome to the world of politics. You seem to be new.
MadisonConservative on July 28, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Reported.
MadisonConservative on July 28, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Don’t tell me, tell Terrye.
Jim Treacher on July 28, 2009 at 8:50 PM
OUCHY!
Romeo13 on July 28, 2009 at 8:56 PM
Good luck with that.
Pablo on July 28, 2009 at 8:56 PM
No need. She’s prioritizing, and questioning your priorities. You’re questioning prioritization. There’s a box of brochures on the table next to the coffee pot.
MadisonConservative on July 28, 2009 at 8:56 PM
The characteristic impenetrability aside, I enjoyed your comment.
Jim Treacher on July 28, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Why is National Review hated again? Its not like they endorsed McCain. They were clearly for Romney. They also loved Sarah Palin from the first time they heard of her.
Speedwagon82 on July 28, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Let’s see. Should we bang on Obama for his vault copy BC, or for this?
Obama Demands $60 Billion in Savings From Military Fighting Two Wars
I’d sure like to make extra sure his mother’s name is Stanley. Decisions, decisions.
Pablo on July 28, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Good stuff Jim.
I believe Gibbs is one of those aborted fetuses CrockObama did not destroy when he had his chance which explains the not fully-functioning brain.
dthorny on July 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM
A riddle if you dare. What authority by name occupying what office by jurisdiction could state that little Barry Dunham aka The Won, was a natural citizen?
1)That he was not naturalized after being adopted by a citizen of Jakarta.
2)That he did not become a citizen of Pock-eee-stahn.
3)That he did not travel to Pock-eee-stahn as an adult using his issued passport from that country.
4)That his mother had lived within the United States for more than five years after reaching the age of eighteen.
5)That his father was not a subject of the British empire. That his deceased grandmother had taken the time to repatriate the minor Barry Soetoro upon his return to the United States when he was 12 years old.
6)That the candidate had demonstrated his qualification BEFORE being allowed to file and campaign.
Blacksmith8 on July 28, 2009 at 10:13 PM
Maybe we need to see Red Commie Jim’s birth certificate, eh?
malan89 on July 29, 2009 at 12:20 AM
Who’s that? And why would we need to see it?
Jim Treacher on July 29, 2009 at 12:28 AM
I am sorry about my tone. But I’ve had it with people falsely crying “racism!” and your post looked like some of the ones I’ve dealt with on the birth cert issue over the past few days. And once again, instead of turning this back on Obama as an example of the secretiveness that permeates all aspects of his professional and political life (which belies his claims of transparency), we’ve got people who are ignoramii about the details of the controversy saying to others “You’re crazy” for demanding the POTUS meet all the standards for eligibility.
It doesn’t help when usual stalwarts like Ed Morrissey equate investigating whether the man who swore to defend the Constitution got there by violating it to believing that 9/11 crash victims are still alive.
L.N. Smithee on July 29, 2009 at 2:34 AM
O.k… here goes. I’m going to try this:
Obama Man (Sung to the tune of “Particle Man” by They Might be Giants)
Obama man, Obama man
Doing the things a president can
What’s he like? It’s not important
Obama man
Is he a fraud, or is he legit?
Where is his birth certificate?
Will the media ever really find it?
Nobody knows, Obama man
Obama man, Obama man
Pushing his health care plan
If they pass it nobody wins
Obama man
Obama man, Obama man
An ego the size of the universe, man
Nobody understands his plan
Obama man
He’s federal budget’s out of hand,
It has no leg on which to stand
Soon we will have a very poor land
Obama man, Obama man
Obama man, Obama man
He has a cult of loyal fans
With ever tingling legs and hands
Obama man
Are we depressed or are we a mess?
Is the dollar totally worthless?
Who came up with this silly plan?
Obama man, Obama man
Obama man, Obama man
Liberty he can’t understand,
He will fight them, nobody wins
Obama man
:) :) :)
Theophile on July 29, 2009 at 3:36 AM
Hmmmmm… I think that I need to change the seventh line to
“Will the media ever find it?”
The word “really” makes is off meter, I think. :) :) :)
Theophile on July 29, 2009 at 3:39 AM
C’mon O’bunghole, show the courts your ORIGINAL Birth Certificate so this can finally end. McCain showed his when Democrats challenged him on his Constitutional Status, in court, TWICE. Your ORIGINAL Birth Certificate will end this or is this just more subterfuge, STARTED by Democrats like Phillip Berg?
nelsonknows on July 29, 2009 at 8:10 AM
This is a REALLY messed up world when Obama can see a copy of MY Original Birth Certificate, anytime he wants, all he has to do is pull my files from the DOD, but I, his EMPLOYER cannot see a copy of HIS original birth certificate.
It’s like we’re living in Bizarro Jerry World!
nelsonknows on July 29, 2009 at 8:17 AM
Glad to see GOP finally speaking out against this nonsense. They should have done so months ago. But, hey. Better late than never.
Chekote on July 29, 2009 at 10:35 AM
DeMint’s got a target on his back, and he knows it. That recent cartoon showed him on a fire escape that looked an awful lot like the Lorraine Tenements in AL.
alliebobbitt on July 29, 2009 at 10:47 AM
TEH LAWZ IS NONSENSE!!!11!!!11!!!
alliebobbitt on July 29, 2009 at 10:49 AM
No, he’s not. He’s questioning the consistency and coherency of her argument, which cuts her as easily as it does the birthers.
The correct argument is: your incessant harping on Obama’s birth certificate is getting in the way of doing better things, such as defeating health care, cap n’ tax, etc.
Birtherism is not a failure of priorities. Indeed, if the birthers are correct, then Obama and his policies are rendered if not invalid, then terminally suspect. And the more true the birther argument holds in the minds of the American people, the less likely Obama will be able to do anything, thus making him as much a lame duck as an opposition Congress.
Problem is, I don’t think it will work, regardless of the truth of the birther position. There are far too many Americans that wouldn’t give a tinker’s cuss if Obama were Martian, much less American. He and they are leftists, post-geographic, identity-neutral global citizens. International socialists.
spmat on July 29, 2009 at 11:36 AM
As I said in another thread, there is a very simple out for the GOP.
All they have to do is say:
While I do not subscibe to this question myself, I must support the Rights of Freedom of Speech, and the Right to Petition for Redress, that our citizens have…
So, while not supporting the question myself, I must support their RIGHT to ask and investigate this.
Romeo13 on July 29, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Agree with spmat. The birth place issue is a red herring and a distraction. If there is anything in it, Bill and Hillary would have used it long long time ago in the Dem primary.
bayview on July 29, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Possibly as an oblique attack by someone loosely connected with the Clinton machine, but even then, I doubt it.
The Democrat base does not care whether you’re as American as apple pie and hot dogs, especially considering that they want to ban them.
spmat on July 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM
The ObamaFile blog has ceased today. I wonder if the Chicage mafia payed a visit recently to the blogger whoever it is.
There were a couple of zinger posts yesterday.
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm
txdoc on July 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Funny how HotAir mocks the birthers but always seem to post about them. The coverage is very cowardly, wink and nod blogging.
jero_jones on July 29, 2009 at 12:05 PM
As an international reader who tries to comment only on foreign policy or when you talk about the U.K,i am breaking
my rules.
I know it has nothing to do with me but please please stop this madness it is making your country look stupid.
This left/right war is destroying you from the inside.No WMD needed.
Do you want the office of POTUS to be so weakened and mocked by it’s own citizens,why should anyone else respect it?
So Obama is a communist, muslim, an a-rab,Kenyan,Indonesian madrassa convert, terrorist funder,terrorist named?,terrorist fist bumper?,and now you are telling me he is not even eligible to be your leader .
God Bless America.
mags on July 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM
…and that’s a big, tenuous, IF. So far, the evidence indicating his birth did take place in Hawaii outweighs the suspicions.
Meanwhile, as has been said, time is being wasted on a likely snipe hunt, while the public is being distracted from this trainwreck of a presidency by video footage of birthers screaming that Obama isn’t an American citizen.
That’s rather pessimistic. If that’s the case, what’s the point of fighting Obama on anything?
MadisonConservative on July 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM
I’m amazed at so many conservatives out there; on this forum and others like it and in the media.
For over a year they’ve been going on about how Obama is a racist and a Communist bent on destroying our country, using voter fraud, he’s going to form his own Brown Shirt army, he’s blowing off the Constitution, etc.
Now that he’s against the ropes many conservatives are like, “Weeeeeelllll, I don’t know. I don’t think we should be too harsh on this young man. This, this birth certificate thing…rather over the top I think. We need to be fair and balanced. Give the guy a break. Plus we need to show the Communists that we’re actually really nice folk and are quite reasonable…then maybe they’ll like us!”
WTF????????
Do any of you think for one second if the shoe were on the other foot the Libtards wouldn’t be talking this up and exploiting it? My God, they still want to put Bush and Cheney in jail!
As a group, we conservatives continue to be our own worse (and fragmented) enemy. This is a war. They’re after us and the America we believe in. It’s not the time to be accommodating and reasonable. The Leftists have to be discredited by talking up stuff like the birth certificate issue and their failed policies. Because that’s all we really have at this point. We don’t have the MSM, the billionaire financiers, the high society types, the beautiful Hollywood people and other celebrities nor even a strong conservative political leadership.
We don’t have to make up stuff. We don’t have to lie. There’s definitely something fishy about all this and the sheeple need to be aware of it so maybe they’ll start waking up and make better decisions in the future-assuming that will be allowed, of course.
Dr. ZhivBlago on July 29, 2009 at 12:41 PM
That’s cute.
MadisonConservative on July 29, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Uh, no. That’s not what you’re hearing, except from the Noonan/Parker/Frum axis. He’s on the ropes because of substantive blows based on his governance. Now is the time to keep throwing those bone crushing shots. It is not the time to run to the dressing room and arm yourself for a kazoo and wiffle bat attack.
Pablo on July 29, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Yeah, like it was Nixon’s policies that brought him down. Those Americans that are even able to say for sure that some guy named Richard Nixon actually was a president can only mumble something about Watergate. How many of us know about Nixon’s “policies”? What brought down Hoover? The Great Depression. What got Clinton impeached? That stained dress. What brought down Carter? The Iran Hostage Crisis.
Millions of unemployed people voted for FDR time and again.
If the sheeple are convinced that the government is doing all they can for them, they’ll just vote for them again. They don’t care too much about this Constitution and Liberty stuff. They want $ and security regardless of how they get it.
I’m surrounded by Liberals. They think Obama’s great! I’m sure they’d vote for him again. The point is to get enough negatives to stick…and this birth certificate thing is definitely ‘sticky’.
Look at all the unfounded trash thrown at Sarah Palin and look how that’s hurt her, even amongst conservatives!!!
Dr. ZhivBlago on July 29, 2009 at 1:12 PM
The birth certificate thing is totally different from some of the previous insanity. It should be obvious to anyone but a complete lunatic that we did land on the moon and that the twin towers were not destroyed from inside. The most troubling thing about the birth certificate is Obama’s refusal to release the long form. This would finish the speculation and everyone could move on to something else.
duff65 on July 29, 2009 at 1:37 PM
JohnGalt23 on July 29, 2009 at 1:38 PM
No, it was series of felonies. You should brush up.
Pablo on July 29, 2009 at 1:47 PM
They don’t want everyone to move on. They want to point and laugh at people spinning their wheels in the birther bog. It’s a nice distraction for them, and it’s extremely low risk.
Pablo on July 29, 2009 at 1:49 PM
For those who think that barry was not born in the US, I don’t think you are crazy but I do think you are falling for a smokescreen and where there is smoke there is fire. Here are some other issues that aren’t even talked about which barry could be hiding with this birth certificate deal.
1) If he was born when his mother was 18 that means she likely became pregnant when she was 17. Was she married to obama when she became pregnant? Where is there marriage license?
2) He was already married in kenya, his marriage to her was bigamy and fraud. barry is alittle bastard like bill clinton.
3)Baldilocks , whose father is from the same tribe as barry senior, says he has no physical characteristics of that tribe. Is barry senior really his father or was he doing his fellow commie, barry’s granddad, a favor by marrying her and making the baby legitimate. He knew he was leaving eventually and from barry’s own description of him he wasn’t a very ethical or principled guy. Did barry senior and frank marshall and the grandpa pal around and know each other?
4)If barry was adopted by the second husband then there could be a citizenship issue or passport issue there. How was this addressed on all his college entrance papers? I have a freind who went to high school with him and he called himself obama then but he may have played fast and loose with the truth to get his leg up on admittance or financial aid.
5) barry went to some very expensive universities. How did he pay for all this? When he went to harvard I believe grandma was already retired and grandpa was never much of a wage earner. Who payed for barry? He ahd already been in chicago and involved in the machine, any help from the chicago machine with finances? The guy went to europe for 5 months after being a community organizer. How much do those people make for a living anyway? He must have had a nice nest egg to go to europe for 5 months and then move half way across the country and go to an ivy league school without having to work part time.
As I said, there is usually smoke where ther is fire and there are even more questions then the ones I’ve brought up. barry and the team will allow and assist the birther stuff to build until they think it has reached it’s peak and then they will release the real birth ceritifcate. Then if any other questions arise they will just say ,”Come on, haven’t we been through all this already?”
peacenprosperity on July 29, 2009 at 1:58 PM
And one other point for the birth certificate crowd, what would a pregnant teenager be doing flying all over the world in a DC3 in 1960. Ever been in a DC3? I came back from a surf trip in one once and hit turbulence and grown men were crying. It was like the scene in almost famous. I would bet that there were certain medical conditions in 1960, including pregnancy, that would not be allowed on a long distance air flight. There was also no evidence of a incredible romance betwenn barry senior and the mom plus he had a wife in kenya. Did he bring her home to meet mom and dad and the wife?
Again, I think you, and all of us, have the right to be suspicious but I think the place of birth is a smokescreen.
peacenprosperity on July 29, 2009 at 2:04 PM
That could very well be and I think you brought up some excellent things to ponder. However, I don’t think that they thought this would ever gain any traction. And now that it has we find ourselves with people from both sides downplaying this. Of course, anyone can pretend to be a conservative online or elsewhere. Shoot, look at guys Spector and the other RINOs…infiltration.
Just after the November election I was talking to an uber Liberal and she was rubbing it in and talking about how she was going to a local inaugural ball (oh brother). Anyway, I said, “Yeah, but there’s lawsuits being filed against Obama over his birth certificate.” I grinned. Her eyes got real big. They don’t like this. Don’t be fooled. It makes the Libs very uncomfortable.
Dr. ZhivBlago on July 29, 2009 at 2:09 PM
We did not land on the moon, only NASA has provided the pictures, no one else…see the flag waving…and if there were three astronauts, two on the moon, one in the module, who took the pictures, the camera was moving so it wasn’t a “tri-pod”.
NASA needed the money, they would have been cut off of all funds, they had to have a “lunar” landing.
But Obama’s certificate has been verified by several different department heads, as well as several journalists.
It is obvious any one who believes Obama was not born in Hawaii is a lunatic…and anyone who believes we landed on the moon is a lunatic.
How about providing proof from pictures not from NASA…
*
See how that works?
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 3:25 PM
So if your neighbor accuses you of child molestation, you are probably guilty…if he throws up the “smoke” then there is fire.
Yeah, that makes sense, any accusation means that there is probably some truth to it.
No offense, but I am pretty sure you like little boys in tight shorts…just my suspicion, just blowing “smoke”…now turn yourself in to the police please.
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 3:28 PM
That’s a really good metaphor…we need to keep hammering on the stuff that will win elections. We need to beat the policies, that is what will last; better policies, better programs, better opportunity.
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 3:34 PM
You know, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you post anything intelligent. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an interesting or thought provoking post from you. Mostly you say really stupid things and insult people. You read every other word of someones post and then you post something truly idiotic that shows your limited intellect. I bet you even look like your posts.
peacenprosperity on July 29, 2009 at 4:02 PM
Yet, look what you posted…”where there is smoke ther(e) is fire”
Do you really believe that?
What I was showing was how outlandish your post is…you are claiming any accusation has a base.
Which is what the “big lie” was all about…tell someone a big enough lie, often enough and they will begin to believe it.
Where does that come from? From thinking like this.
Where there is smoke there is fire….
Now do you want to amend what you said, or stick to it?
Why don’t you defend your statement with…”I believe in exactly what I stated, accusations have a truthful base”…or “you are right, it was too broad of a statement”.
The rest wasn’t a real attack, it was a metaphor to what you were saying you believed.
Look at what is posted, no how you “feel” about someone, look at the words…you take it way to personal.
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 4:35 PM
This proves that you have absolutely no idea what I wrote. You read the cut and paste of that one line that another poster used and then jumped to conclusions about what I said. I stand by my statement that I have never seen any proof that you have anything substantial to say.
peacenprosperity on July 29, 2009 at 4:40 PM
And now that I think about it, you were a defender of michael jackson so of course you don’t find child molestation offensive.
peacenprosperity on July 29, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Now that’s more like it.
JohnGalt23 on July 29, 2009 at 5:29 PM
Now that I think about it, I wonder just what Senator Obama was doing in Kenya, who he was campaigning for, what law that breaks, who paid for his travel, what law that breaks, and as to the subject of his eligibility just which passport he traveled on.
Blacksmith8 on July 29, 2009 at 7:03 PM
It is obvious any one who believes Obama was not born in Hawaii is a lunatic…and anyone who believes we landed on the moon is a lunatic.
How about providing proof from pictures not from NASA…
*
See how that works?
right2bright on July 29, 2009 at 3:25 PM
I worked on the space program and I know damn well that we landed on the moon. You come over as a total idiot.
duff65 on July 29, 2009 at 7:12 PM
Dear English Reader,
In America, we have a class of whites that we refer to as ‘rednecks’. These rednecks occupy the lowest strata of society. They tend to be ignorant and angry. They have been used by the GOP for the last 30 years because of their quaint notions about teh guns and the idea that a-rabs want to blow up their trailers or local walmarts.
Don’t pay too much attention to them – the rest of us don’t.
simplesimon on July 29, 2009 at 7:56 PM
*ffffffffffffffff*
*sputter*
Dude, I must be really high right now, because I’m watching Joe Biden and he’s making sense!
MadisonConservative on July 29, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Oh ‘his BC is on the internet’, remember that comment?
heh heh. The White House has told us to refer to a false internet posting as our reference in the past.
johnnyU on July 29, 2009 at 8:43 PM
No offense, my good chap, but seeing as how the UK has so very many things going on right now that make the UK look so very stupid, don’t you think your time might be better spent in concentration on those matters?
Long live the Queen.
Luka on July 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM
Allapundit, as usual, you miss the point.
It doesn’t matter if The Straw Man is an American or not or whether Hot Air posters think pursuing the birth issue offends their sense of credibility or not.
Instead it is a question of strategy: Do you put on a full court press or do you let the majority in the House, Senate, and soon to be SCOTUS, as well as the executive branch, simply dribble the ball down the court, and feed it in to BHO for a slam dunk?
If you don’t know the answer, you shouldn’t be hosting on Hot Air.
Stepan on July 30, 2009 at 12:10 PM
This is the problem posting on here.
Re-read my post…see where I state “See how that works?”.
That is showing that I don’t believe, I was showing how people can argue any side of the issue, just by making a comment without any backup.
And of course I was referring to the one poster who believes “where there is smoke there is fire”, he believes any statement has some truth.
And when challenged, he backed away, he wouldn’t own up to his comment.
See how it works now???
right2bright on July 30, 2009 at 12:11 PM
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