Five Freedoms you’ll lose in ObamaCare
posted at 12:15 pm on July 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
For all of the effort to rapidly pass a health-reform bill, one would think that the entire system had collapsed. However, Gallup polling shows that 83% of Americans consider themselves satisfied with their current insurance plans, and care continues to excel. The biggest problem is the cost, which has risen substantially — although as the Washington Post pointed out this weekend, that primarily comes from enormous technological leaps in treatment that saves lives.
Even if cost savings requires health-care reform, what would those 83% of Americans be willing to surrender to get it? Fortune explains the five freedoms Americans will have to trade for ObamaCare, and why that will be a tough sell to that 83%:
A close reading of the two main bills, one backed by Democrats in the House and the other issued by Sen. Edward Kennedy’s Health committee, contradict the President’s assurances. To be sure, it isn’t easy to comb through their 2,000 pages of tortured legal language. But page by page, the bills reveal a web of restrictions, fines, and mandates that would radically change your health-care coverage.
If you prize choosing your own cardiologist or urologist under your company’s Preferred Provider Organization plan (PPO), if your employer rewards your non-smoking, healthy lifestyle with reduced premiums, if you love the bargain Health Savings Account (HSA) that insures you just for the essentials, or if you simply take comfort in the freedom to spend your own money for a policy that covers the newest drugs and diagnostic tests — you may be shocked to learn that you could lose all of those good things under the rules proposed in the two bills that herald a health-care revolution.
In short, the Obama platform would mandate extremely full, expensive, and highly subsidized coverage — including a lot of benefits people would never pay for with their own money — but deliver it through a highly restrictive, HMO-style plan that will determine what care and tests you can and can’t have. It’s a revolution, all right, but in the wrong direction.
Forget about having any of the following:
- Freedom to choose what’s in your plan
- Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
- Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
- Freedom to keep your existing plan
- Freedom to choose your doctors
Only the second actually surprised me. After all, Barack Obama has talked about making preventive medicine a highlight of his plan, and driving down costs by ensuring that Americans adopt health habits. But ObamaCare spreads out the effect of that through “community pricing,” not individual pricing. If you quit smoking in the current system, you can usually expect a cut in your rates. In ObamaCare, you’ll just have the pleasure of knowing that the cost savings your decision represents will go towards subsidizing the health care of people who refuse to quit smoking.
ObamaCare eventually aggregates everyone into an HMO system from which no one can escape. Call it the Hospital California; once you’re in this system, you can “check out,” but you can never leave.
Blowback
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Do Americans have trouble with context? Did you not notice in my post the emphasis on “personally”? There are horror stories in every system, even yours. I don’t think you will find a person in Canada who will not say that yes, our system too should have some major sort of reform. But, overall, most are content with it. As for Mz. Holmes, her condition was NOT LIFE THREATENING as she would have you believe. She was a queue jumper plain and simple. And now she is cashing in.
As for the lady with the gall bladder, my father went into the emerg a few years ago with pain, and was given gallbladder surgery the next day. She should have seen a different doctor if she was not happy with her prognosis. In Ontario at least, yes, you can do that…
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 2:20 PM
To protect himself against malpractice.
Are you for tort reform?
Because if you’re not, you are part of the problem. Lawyers are 99% of the problem with the US health system. Canada and the UK don’t have to put up with frivilous lawsuits and sky high malpractice insurance.
Without tort reform, health care will always be ridiculously expensive. There’s no way around it.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM
It matters not when a business was established, yesterday or 100 years ago. All businesses are created for one reason – to make profit. Period.
Yeah, Ann, life really is that simple.
ladyingray on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Really now. Single payer? So Quebec conveniently is really not part of Canada. What part of the US should we make like Quebec in our Canadian model. And you are saying like the infamous Mr. Moore that Mr Crowder probably lied and all those medical professionals helped him make the movie by saying such horrible things about your shitty health care system. Oh, that’s right only in Quebec where you would not take your dog. And the gentleman who has been quoted in countless articles as one of the designers of your Health care was speaking from the grave or his quotes were fictitious? While his name escapes me, you as a Canadian would know this dead man. Hmmm.
You are the one with talking points. Points I might add that could be totally BS as I can’t tell where you are from. Myself I just read the lawsuits and the standard horror stories from Canada, UK, France etc long before our Health care debate started.
We pay more but we get more! And so do Canadians when they come here for life saving procedures. No one goes to Canada!
As for personal attacks I simply stated that you should follow your own advice, I even put it in quotes for you.
patrick neid on July 28, 2009 at 2:26 PM
I don’t think I have a clue what you are saying here, unless you are saying insurance companies are picking pockets. If that is the case, then what do you think about taxes that I can’t avoid lest I be fined and eventually jailed? If I decide that the service provided by my health insurance company isn’t worth the price, I am welcome to shop for another provider, another plan, or drop it altogether. Where is that option in the current healthcare bill? In the Democrats plan, I’ll be taxed (fined), if I choose not to carry approved health insurance. If anyone is guilty of picking pockets, it’s the government.
aelhues on July 28, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Not to mention how the rest of the world benefits from our research and development for drugs and treatments.
They can kiss that goodbye when this reform passes…
ladyingray on July 28, 2009 at 2:28 PM
pcbedamned makes a great point.
First, there are horror stories in every system but OVERALL, most are content with it. This clarifies a point I made earlier, is that health care consumers make decisions and judgements at the margin. Your healthcare system is okay, especially when you don’t need it. However, once you need your gallbladder out, your whole viewpoint changes, and changes dramatically, because now you really, really need it–and it ain’t working for you.
Second, we can all agree that some reform is needed. However, the argument must drill down to what type–providers, coverage, facilities, administration, location, interaction, information etc. Most people involved in this debate are only an inch deep and have little contextual knowledge regarding the provision or administration of health care. Moreover, a profound misunderstanding of the capabilities and limitations of the care of human beings exists broadly as a result of the incredible amount of sheer idiocy in our society –at the level of the average citizen and more so in the political class.
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM
There is NOTHING in Canada worth copying
Jeff from WI on July 28, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Ladyingray….I’m for profit.
I’m not too keen on 130 million bonus plans.
Call me silly.
AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:35 PM
Hey Canada Boy, Here’s a major problem we have that you don’t have.Lazy, shiftless minorities that’ll demand Cadillac Care or they’ll scream discrimination, but add nothing into the pot to pay for it.
Jeff from WI on July 28, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Ann, it is so frustrating seeing others on here trying to get through your skull that we and the GOP are NOT against reform. Just this style of reform. Get it this time?
Also, I think what you said here sounds akin to an extortive eight year old telling his parents he’ll be good the rest of the day if he doesn’t have to clean his own room.
You’e thinking process needs some calibrating. It swings back and forth from rational to emmotional far too quickly.
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Let’s go to the morgue of all of the hospitals, and to the exit of all of the hospitals and ask them how satisfied they are with their health care. You’ll get a different story…
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Actually, I have only used my health care system when I need it. And so far, I am satisfied. Like the time 12 years ago when I went in for bleeding during my second pregnancy. Went in a 11:30pm, and was in surgery for an ectopic pregnancy by 5am. Then 6 months later when pregnant again with some bleeding, as soon as I got to the emerg they had me hooked up to an IV ‘just in case’ based on my previous experience, even though an ultra sound had shown that the baby had been in the womb. Unfortunately, I miscarried, but the care I received was fantastic and caring. 20 years ago my best friend was diagnosed with lymphoma, and she is still here today after surgery saved her life. I could continue to provide personal experiences, but I don’t think it would make a lick of difference. Minds that are firmly made up, will not change. I don’t know, maybe we (my family and those I know) are just the luckiest bas*ards in Canada :)
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Illogical and fallacious is more appropriate. The folks who cannot simply see that an opposition to their plan equates to be against all kinds of reform. These same tools would say that you’re against ice cream if you don’t like chocolate. Don’t be an ice cream hater… Who the hell is against ice cream? The same thing goes for reform Ann, we’ve all waited in lines, got high bills, dealt with companies, or have been treated rudely or poorly. Moreover, some of us may have not received appropriate care. Hence, we are in favor of some reforms, just like we are in favor of some ice cream. We just don’t want the type of reform that sacrifices our freedom, liberty and increases our costs. The plans that do that we are against.
Get it. No chocolate.
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Sorry Mark, but I’m against ANY type of reform. My employer pays my insurance. ( I traded time off for full payments) I like the coverage and I don’t give a damn about anyone else.
Jeff from WI on July 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM
there, Jeff in WI, hates ice cream. That’s okay–he’s made a precise definition of what he’s against and why.
that’s a little tough to do for the rest of the libs.
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 2:47 PM
So what?
The GOP should go along with the Dems craptacular “plan”, otherwise they’ll lose people like you as voters?
Again, so what?
This “plan” is going to suck to high heaven. Anyone remotely associated with it (if it does pass) is going to be in the crosshairs of the voters.
Why should the GOP sign on to a looming disaster?
Let the Democrats pass this crock of crap (if they can) and reap the sorrow associated with it. This “plan” will destroy the Democrat Party for generations.
The only people who will still love the Democrats after this stink bomb will be the same parasites who always vote straight line Democrat.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 2:48 PM
But what if you lived in Quebec? What if Steve Crowder’s short video was accurate? Then how would you feel about your Canadian single payer system?
patrick neid on July 28, 2009 at 2:49 PM
I imagine that your doctors would like tort reform Jeff. I imagine that you’d not object to you employer paid premiums holding steady or getting cheaper as a result. I imagine that if we kept thing just as they are, and in a few years when your employer reevaluates their costs, and decides that your insurance is getting too expensive, and asks you to cover some of it, or changes it or drops it all together, that you might think differently.
aelhues on July 28, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Do obstetricians pay $100.00 per patient visit for malpractice insurance in Canada?
Because ours do.
And Medicaid reimburses at about $90.00 per OB patient visit. Maybe they can make that up in volume.
The Canadian system is irrelevant. You don’t have our lottery legal system, nor do you have an absolutely worthless, corrupt and incompetent Democrat Party that’s hopelessly indebted to trial lawyers.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 2:52 PM
At least they didn’t take out his tonsils.
LibTired on July 28, 2009 at 2:55 PM
AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:57 PM
“I know you are, but what am I” works only on the play ground. Grow up and provide some rational debate, or go back to the sandbox…
As for Kebec, trust me, if instead of Kebec holding a referendum on separating, if the rest of Canada had a voice in the debate, they would have been gone the first time around.
The name is Tommy Douglas. And he died in 1986. Self education is a great thing…
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 2:57 PM
I think McCain offered that. I think it’s over.
I think I do get the GOP on this key issue.
Frankly, it’s ideologue beyond me.
That is OK. I’m just not going to join.
AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:59 PM
Or address any actual point of contention.
aelhues on July 28, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Maybe someone talks so much she starts contradicting herself…?
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 3:05 PM
And THAT is what my original post was about. You cannot compare the Canadian system to what is being offered in the States. You have to overhaul many things (such as tort reform and welfare) before your country could even consider going to a single payer system like Canada. (we too have to do major welfare reform, but that is a whole other issue and I don’t feel like going off on a full tilt rant – it’s one of those things that pi**es me off to NO END). Not once has anyone here ever seen me say that ‘Canada’s system is better than the States because…’. All I have ever stated is that so far, my personal experiences and those of my family and others I know, has been positive. I don’t engage in pi**ing contests because as I am female, I am sure to lose in distance, although not in accuracy :)
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Must be a lot of independents who hate Democrats these days then:
“A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 42% would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate while 39% would opt for their Democratic opponent.”
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 3:06 PM
I agree it’s irrelevant, you have different demographics, a different legal system a much smaller, more homogenous population, you don’t have millions of illegal immigrants walking across your border and you have a large, prosperous country on your southern border that’s willing to pick up the slack.
As far as health care is concerned, we’re hurting on all of these factors. You might as well be on the moon, as far as comparison purposes.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM
NoDonkney is right. Comparing the US vs Canada health care system is apples to oranges. By saying any system is “better,” the next most logical question is, “In what way?” Is it on stroke outcomes, wellness, diabetes management, infant mortality, patient satisfaction, cost or a conglomerate of many factors. Simply saying this is “better” than that is incomplete and an extraordinary amount of information is lost in that weak argument.
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 3:14 PM
One, I would never live in Kebec. I am one of those English Separatists. And the people of Kebec need to take the issue up with their Provincial Government. It has nothing to do with the rest of Canada, seeing as how they are considered a ‘distinct society’ and all.
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 3:17 PM
No kidding. It’s like Ann has a “Magic 8-ball” type device. I mean, her responses are almost that random. “Just shake it up and see what I tell the right-wingers this time.” She reminds me of Rosie with her short, nonsensical non-responses.
Ann, I work three blocks up Penn Ave. from the White House. You wanna go have a beer after you get off from your summer intern job there?
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 3:20 PM
And the thing the UK and Canada don’t have that’s most relevant is our tort system.
So when libs tell us we should emulate their health care system, we should ask them whether they would also like us to adopt their tort system.
Because even if you believe that the UK/Canadian system is the way to go, there is no possible way that either will result in any savings if we continue with our legal lottery system.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 3:21 PM
I am sorry, but I do not understand what this is. Could you please explain?
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 3:24 PM
It is moreover incomplete and overly simplistic to readily assume the “US Health care system” actually represents some easily defined entity that can ultimately be blamed for or credited with the success of anyone’s health. This is akin to saying there is a “US small business system” which simply isn’t true. The same faults and fallacies exist when people try to make these comparisons. The truth is there is a patchwork of variable coverage areas (just like cell phones), services, providers, patient populations, and facilities that deliver their services in many different ways. The common theme amongst them is emergency services, since those are (I believe) funded partially at the state level. It diverges from there. There is simply no easy was to provide a clear picture on health care in the US on a macro level due to these factors–hence, that’s a great reason for the government to keep their hands out of it. The federal gov’t cannot take into account the variable medical issues due to geography, industry and ethnicity that are particular to the different states. Coastal states need resources for maritime health issues such as diving, naval accidents etc, just like mountainous states need resources for mountain sickness and other altitude injuries. A plain vanilla plan by Uncle Daddy Sugar up in da big ol’ White House just ain’t gonna see dat.
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 3:25 PM
Does she specialize in dress stains?
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 3:27 PM
That was completely unnecessary. It is snark like that, that degrades the debate. Play nice…
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Our physicians are routinely sued whenever there is an adverse outcome.
This results in skyhigh malpractice insurance. For an OB doctor this can be $100.00 per patient visit.
So in this case, an OB doctor has to bill you $200.00 to make $100.00 and that’s before paying his office staff, etc.
That doctor will order expensive test after expensive test for his patient, not because it’s medically necessary, but to cover himself in case he’s sued later.
Tort lawyers live like kings here and make far more than physician specialists.
And what they don’t spend on yachts and mansions, they send to the Democrat Party.
And that’s why our healthcare is the most expensive in the world.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 3:28 PM
John Edwards= ambulance chasing tort lawyer
Rich guy
evil
$400 hair cut
he must be baaaaad
..but he’s for the little guy right.?
ted c on July 28, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Yes, that is just wrong on soooo many levels. And it makes me sad that the ‘truly needy’ (as opposed to those who know how to work the system), must suffer because of it.
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 3:31 PM
If we had real tort reform in this country, the vast majority of problems with our health care system would go away overnight.
And the ones remaining would be due to the federal and state governments politicizing health care and mandating a bunch of worthless “care” to be covered by insurance, that most people don’t want or need.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Politics as usual…
ladyingray on July 28, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Maybe so. But I will argue what else could Ann be besides an operative? No one’s thought process is that disjointed by accident, except for an insane person.
In any case, what is so horrible about calling someone an astroturfer (my intention) for this Liar-in-Chief of a President? Seriosuly, what is so wrong with that?
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 3:41 PM
If you can’t snark with the big dogs…
ladyingray on July 28, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Liberals REALLY hate Health Savings Accounts. I still am not sure why. I had one for 2 years and loved it. Paid all of my own costs and never touched the HSA. When I left my job I had $4500 in it, and saved another $5000 in premiums. I think millions would do this if they had the choice.
rockmom on July 28, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Because the government can’t meddle with it and force you to do something you don’t want.
And because feckless losers who would rather spend their money on worthless trinkets than save for health care, don’t have one.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 3:53 PM
If I could figure out a viable way to do it, I would jump on it. I’d love to be able to save my own money, to pay my own bills, with a low cost HDHP. Unfortunately, everywhere I have looked, it ends up costing me almost $200 more a month. It’s a brilliant idea, in my opinion. It puts me squarely in charge of my health care. I choose everything about it. If I don’t like something, I simply take my cash somewhere else. Despite the extra cost, I’m still trying to find a system that will work for me.
aelhues on July 28, 2009 at 3:54 PM
She’s about the only troll left who even attempts to defend anything related to this incompetent and corrupt “administration”, she’s an endangered species.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Will there be special provisons under ObamaCare for such endangered species? You know, like the one for the unions?
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I appreciate Ann coming in here, but it frustrates me that she seems to completely ignore most of the reasoned opposition. I can’t help but lament the apparent dearth of reasonable Liberals who are willing to actually discuss issues, both online, and in my everyday life. At least without completely ignoring the majority of my points, and egregiously misconstruing the rest.
aelhues on July 28, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Meaningfuldiscussion requires logic thought.Not possible for a LIB
Jeff from WI on July 28, 2009 at 4:13 PM
They are just following what the worthless liar Democrats do. They forever spin and appeal to emotion while ignoring logic and common sense.
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 4:01 PM
I believe under Obamacare we are all equally worthless. The State uber alles.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 4:13 PM
I don’t know if anyone else has posted this, but here is the link to one of the monstrous health care bills that Congress is considering. Here is the link:
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
Here are some of the highlights, (if you can call them that). Personally, this scares the heck out of me. Sorry if this is so long, it is certainly shorter than the actual bill!
Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill – YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!
Pg 42 of HC Bill – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill – HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens,illegal or otherwise
Pg 58HC Bill – Government will have real-time access to individuals’finances & a National ID Health card will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government is creating a Health Care Exchange to bring private Health Care plans under Government control.
PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your Healthcare!
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill – Government mandates linguistic services. Example – Translation for illegal aliens
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HC plan
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members – Your Health care WILL BE RATIONED.
-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill – Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill – Doctors/ #AMA – The Government will tell YOU what u can make.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option
plan. NO CHOICE
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll 400k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll
pg 150 Lines 9-13 Any business with payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll
Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of inc
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC – “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” (Yes, it says that)
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill – Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same
PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Dr’s time, professional judgement, etc. Literally value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries
PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs
PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!
Page 280 Sec 1151 The Government will penalize hospitals for what Government deems preventable readmissions.
Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission – Government will penalize you.
Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment – Government tells Drs. what/how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Government will mandating hospitals cannot expand
pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!
Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 – Government mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing
Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans,HMOs, etc. Forcing people in to Government plan
Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Think about people in the Special Olympics to understand what this means.
Pg 379 Sec 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Tele-health Advisory Committee. Can u say HC by phone?
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. End of life counseling for senior citizens.
Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you along in death
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program orders for end of life. The Government will have a say in how your life ends
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 an “adv. care planning consult” will b used frequently as patients health deteriorates
PG 429 Lines 10-12 “adv. care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life
Pg 469 – Community Based Home Medical Services=Non-profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based org. Like ACORN?
PG 489 Sec 1308 The Government will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Government in to your marriage
Pg 494-498 Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services
Susanboo on July 28, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Can they make my wife do my laundry?
Because I sure as hell cannot.
Warning: They will need federal troops.
NoDonkey on July 28, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Thanks for sharing that, Susan.
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Do we really want to know WHY your wife will not do your laundry?!?
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 4:26 PM
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Sent to me by my Mom who turned 78 in June and looks 65. She and my Dad (who will be 80 in October, & still works as an Architect w/ me in our family firm), have Texas Teachers Retirement Health Benefits along with Medicare. They are scared to death of this plan because if they broke a hip, or something that is very treatable w/ todays healthcare, they would be toast on Obamacare. Her friend, who is also a very healthy senior, sent it to her and all their friends. The seniors we know do not want this bill, in spite of what AARP says.
Susanboo on July 28, 2009 at 4:42 PM
I think it’s about to be “Morning in America” in regards to people and their awakening from their slumber.
MarkABinVA on July 28, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Again you run out this tripe after bragging about your Canadian health care but when confronted with Quebec you simply say you would not take your dog there. From the vantage point of the US Quebec is part of Canada and so is their health care. What you are really saying is there is no single payer health care system in Canada that is touted by our Dems. So you agree, if you were forced to live in Quebec you would not have the same enthusiasm for Canadian health care.
Here’s some stories to warm your heart concurring with your theory that you may in fact be one of the luckiest bastards in Canada. Your words not mine.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2006/03/16/ns-lottery-doc20060316.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/06/09/newscoc-health050609.html
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_natlpost-a_new_day_for_the_cma.htm
http://www.ski-blog.com/2006/03/adam_at_highly_obsesseds_knee.html
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/08/28/doctor-shortage.html#skip300x250
http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_07mar2006_e
In closing I applaud your self education in knowing your leading Socialist who designed your Health care system.
patrick neid on July 28, 2009 at 5:28 PM
People just don’t believe any of what is going on in our country until they see it with their own eyes or hear it with their own ears. I warned my Mom a couple of weeks ago about this health care plan, and she poo-pooed it, despite being a staunch Republican. Now that her friend sends it to her, and she can actually read what’s in it, she believes it. Too bad that we have to get this far before they see the writing on the wall.
It is due to this type of disbelief that we have Obama as a President. I am happy to say that my family, (w/ the exception of my “Californian residing brainwashed brother”), were smart and informed enough to not vote for this idiot.
Susanboo on July 28, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Perhaps you can answer on the first page then… One thing that really concerns me about the Canadian system after seeing the Crowder piece is the fact that there doesn’t seem to an abundance of family doctors/ specialists in Canada. One thing that I like about the U.S. system is the fact that I can change my doctor just because I feel like it. If one doctor is dismissive of certain issues, you can always go get a second opinion. I’ve used that ability more than once and that really is important to me. I just changed dentists because the dental hygienist at my old dentist was a crab and I didn’t feel like dealing with her.
I’m also incredibly concerned about quality of life care. Obama seems to have a fixation on certain procedures like getting tonsils out. I find that sort of thing very disturbing. I benefited from a quality of life plastic surgery when I was twenty and would be afraid that that sort of procedure wouldn’t be available to any children I might have under Obamacare.
Illinidiva on July 28, 2009 at 5:44 PM
At least the guy in the picture got a nice pair of Channel Locks out of the deal.
Jeff from WI on July 28, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Sorry if I’m making you repeat something that was said earlier, but what does AARP say about this?
4shoes on July 28, 2009 at 6:44 PM
I posted this earlier on the thread, but I understand not wanting to read through a bunch of posts, or remembering who it was that said it. Remember, Crowder did his piece in Quebec. To reiterate, the FEDERAL Government has nothing to do with Canadian Health Care. All that the Feds do is provide transfer payments to the Provinces to help pay for some of the Health Care costs. The individual Provinces then set the standards for what will and will not be covered, and offer up the remainder of the costs. I cannot speak for other Provinces, as I have only lived in Ontario. Here, dental, prescriptions, optometry, and a few other things are not covered. Either your employer covers these things through additional insurance benifits, or you can obtain your own additional insurance (the same as in the States).
And yes, I can (and have as well), change my doctor if I am not happy. And if I do not like the specialist that my Dr. has recommended, I can get a different one as well. Case in point, I loved the OB I had for my first pregnancy right up until the delivery time (and by then it was too late to change him while in stirrups and hearing “PUSH”). So, for my subsequent pregnancies, I chose a different OB, who was fantastic right up to the point of my hysterectomy, when I no longer needed him :)
As for the last point in your post, I too would be concerned if in fact that is what Bambam is saying. As I stated before, I do not know what your Health Bill states, (I did download it, but 1000 pages is not what I want to spend my evening checking out) but if it contains even half of the crap that ‘Susanboo’ was stating it does, I too would say Run, Do Whatever Is Necessary to NOT let something like that go through. All I know is that the care that I have received has been between MY Dr. and ME. Never have I had to wait for a yes or no. Need it? You get it. If it is life threatening, you get it right away. If it is not, yes, you might have to wait, as life threatening takes precedence, as it should.
As for the plastic surgery, all I know is that if it is ‘cosmetic’ it is not covered. If it is deemed to part of your healthy well being, it is. Breast augmentation is not covered, breast reduction is. Some 20 years ago, a guy I was dating put his arm through a window completely screwing up his hand and arm. The top plastic surgeon worked on him, and he retained 100% use of both hand and arm, all of it covered. But again, this is in Ontario. I cannot answer for the other Provinces.
What I would be interested to know is whether or not Obamacare is something that is to be across the board (as in something pursuant for ALL states), or if it would be up to the individual States to determine?
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 7:11 PM
1. The freedom to stay nourished as long as you want.
2. The freedom to remain hydrated as long as you want.
3. The freedom to keep your heart beating as long as you want.
4. The freedom to breathe as long as you want.
5. The freedom to stay alive as long as you want.
I think that about sums it all up.
JellyToast on July 28, 2009 at 7:23 PM
As a side note, personally I don’t think even Bambam wants the ‘public option’. Everyone knows that you always open with the thing you KNOW is unattainable. You then seem to compromise, getting what it was you wanted in the first place. I don’t know what kind of game he is playing, but then again, he always has talked out of both sides of his forked tongue, so who does. If he was serious about the public option, he would have opened with single-payer. (IMHO) Instead it is going to play out that the bill will ultimately fail, and it will be blamed on the ‘big bad GOP who don’t give a lick about the American people’ meme, that it has always been.
All I can say is, Politics Sucks when it is playing with real peoples’ lives.
pcbedamned on July 28, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Hey Ed, did you find the 5 Freedoms story from me?
Just asking.
AlreadyKnownAs on July 28, 2009 at 8:50 PM
You ARE silly. And who gives a fuck what you’re keen on? As if you suffering from class envy has anything to do with what one private entity pays another.
xblade on July 28, 2009 at 10:04 PM
4shoes on July 28,2009 at 6:44PM. The AARP has endorsed the Obamacare plan.
Susanboo on July 28, 2009 at 11:46 PM
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