Bend it like Barack – into the red

posted at 10:55 am on July 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Economists love nothing more than curling up in front of a fireplace with a financial analysis of government policy, allowing the numbers to wash over them like a John Updike novel — or in this administration, more like a Stephen King horrorfest.  For the rest of us, though, the numbers and calculations can prove daunting.  Keith Hennessey puts the CBO’s latest killer analysis of the House health-care reform bill into graphic form, where everyone can be horrified equally.

For a baseline demonstration of the numbers, Hennessey charts the spending and taxes in the House bill, along with the expected revenue of the proposed tax increase — the “surtax” on the rich — over the next ten years:

Despite Barack Obama’s promises, the cost-saving techniques in ObamaCare only offset about a quarter of all the new spending in the plan by 2019.  The offsetting tax increase, Rangel’s surtax, will only generate $87 billion a year by that time, slightly more than half of the next spending increase — and note that revenues almost flatline while spending increases at a much higher rate.  What does that mean for the second decade?  Hennessey has a chart for that, too:

Click on the image if you need a better look at the data.  By the time we get to 2029, ObamaCare will run a $205 billion deficit in that year alone, almost as much as the CBO estimate of the program’s entire first decade.  It’s a devastating analysis of ObamaCare, one which Hennessey calls a TKO of the proposal.  These charts certainly make that case.

Be sure to read all of his analysis.  Curl up in front of a fire.  In fact, throw John Conyers’ copy on the logs, since he won’t be reading it before he votes.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4

Rush had a great soundbite of o in 04 saying how we should not rush bills thru such as the patriot act before having time to read it!!! lol Rush is the man!!!

ohiobabe on July 28, 2009 at 1:53 PM

In general, firms that decided to stop sponsoring insurance coverage for their workers would not be able to reduce their operating costs because, in a competitive labor market, they would have to offer higher wages and other forms of compensation instead. Indeed, workers might be particularly motivated to demand such increases under the proposal because they would be required to obtain insurance. That added compensation would generally be taxable. (This consideration and the preceding one help explain why most workers are offered health insurance by their employers today.)

From the “new” CBO report AnninCA was crowing about.

And this is why AnninCa is full of it when she says it helps small businesses.

Explain it to us again, Ann!

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 2:00 PM

Show of hands, how many people would wash a rental car before returning it to the rental agency. Uh-huh. Point made.

Mallard T. Drake on July 28, 2009 at 1:48 PM

I actually did that once. Didn’t want them to look too closely at a Subaru Outback I took offroad.

guntotinglibertarian on July 28, 2009 at 2:04 PM

We’ve lost 7 major hospitals. BUT, do remember, this is LA. We are over-run with major trauma (gang fights) and illegal immigrants.

We are somewhat unique.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 1:47 PM

I doubt our gang problem is really any worse than any other major urban area, and we have the same immigrant issues as every other southern border state. The only difference is how our government chooses to deal with it.

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Small business cannot afford to offer insurance. I know. I’m on the board of a non-profit. It’s going to kill us. We’ll end up closing our staff-manned office and moving to phone soon.

Why? Healthcare.

We’ll just fire the staff to survive.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM

I doubt our gang problem is really any worse than any other major urban area, and we have the same immigrant issues as every other southern border state. The only difference is how our government chooses to deal with it.

Maybe. I honestly can’t tell. What seems to be killing CA has nothing to do with that issue.

It’s the unions and gov’t workers.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Liberals are hypocrites. They love to say that they’d be happy to pay more taxes, yet not one voluntarily pays more than they are required to on their 1040 forms. Likewise, those who decry the profit motive aren’t ashamed to take home as big a paycheck as they can get.

Mallard T. Drake on July 28, 2009 at 1:48 PM

oh, it’s worse than that. How many Limosine liberals have Tax accountants. I bet they don’t file a 1040EZ (gotta itemize that underwear).

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:13 PM

Small business cannot afford to offer insurance. I know. I’m on the board of a non-profit

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM

“small business” and “non-profit” are mutually exclusive. You have a basic misunderstanding of what business is, thus your inability to grasp anything associated with business.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:14 PM

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM

I thought you were leaving? Axelrod paying overtime today?

Knucklehead on July 28, 2009 at 2:18 PM

We’ll just fire the staff to survive.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM

Quite moral of you. Your prior staff will have ‘Free Health Care’, but won’t be able to afford to put food on the table. Therefore, they will either become sick, or die.

PappaMac on July 28, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Ann is on a board of a non-profit organization, which means her salary is paid for by the generosity of others.

She is no different than a State government employee – thinking that money grows on trees.

ghost707 on July 28, 2009 at 2:19 PM

“small business” and “non-profit” are mutually exclusive. You have a basic misunderstanding of what business is, thus your inability to grasp anything associated with business.

I worked in corporate America for most of my career, in finance.

I understand.

I was privvy to these issues during the S&L fall. My company survived well enough to give severance, at least.

I personally wrote executive compensation to meet federal requirements to stockholders, so I know what is required. I also wrote all communications regarding benefits to employees. I also was given an award by the industry for my communications program, which was listed as one of the selling points of my company because we had a policy of honest and open communications. It worked.

We told the truth. Employees loved it. The company was dying financially (due to bad loans) but thriving with customers (due to honesty).

I am not the idiot you think I am.

but…that’s my own resume.

Let’s hear yours.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM

It’s the unions and gov’t workers.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM

That’s a soundbite Anne. What’s killing CA is the mentality behind this. That somehow the motivation for government is to “make things better”. Unions and government workers are people too, and like anyone else they argue and work to keep their jobs. In the end, self interest rules whether it’s in corporate life or bureaucracy.

Government is not here to make things better. It’s here to ensure that things just work. If you want things to be better, great…DO IT YOURSELF. Do it through persuasion and example, not coercion with the power of government.

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Let’s hear yours.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Nice resume but, sorry, we aren’t hiring. I guess being on a non-profit “board” gets you invited to all the best parties. Did you hurt your arm while you were patting yourself on the back?

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Quite moral of you. Your prior staff will have ‘Free Health Care’, but won’t be able to afford to put food on the table. Therefore, they will either become sick, or die.

Non-profit is simpler than for-profit. We either can pay the bills and keep it going or not.

I think we have a year left. Because of healthcare? We’ll be shutting our own doors in about 12 months.

Our particular arm has lasted longer than any other. Most every other office closed and went to voicemail in the past year to two years.

Why? Healthcare.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Ann, please explain how the excerpt I cited above is consistent with your assertions about saving small businesses?

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Nice resume but, sorry, we aren’t hiring. I guess being on a non-profit “board” gets you invited to all the best parties. Did you hurt your arm while you were patting yourself on the back?

And your resume?

still waiting

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Why? Healthcare.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

If you would create a business model that actually generated profits, you might be able to keep your doors open. Whining that you don’t get enough donations to stay in business says more about what you do than anything associated with healthcare. Produce something that people want and you’ll do a lot better.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:28 PM

I know what healthcare is costing my non-profit. I know we’re seeing the end of the line. This organization has been in place since 1943.

And I know. We’re about to go out. And it’s directly due to healthcare.

We have 2 employees. No group rate. It’s a killer.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM

I think we have a year left. Because of healthcare? We’ll be shutting our own doors in about 12 months.

Our particular arm has lasted longer than any other. Most every other office closed and went to voicemail in the past year to two years.

Why? Healthcare.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

You either have piss-poor management or board of directors that’s clueless.

I suspect both.

Knucklehead on July 28, 2009 at 2:30 PM

And your resume?

still waiting

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:28 PM

If I told you my resume you would just bug the crap out of me looking for donations.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Bend it like Barack – into the redposted at 10:55 am on July 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly Economists love nothing more than curling up in front of a fireplace with a financial analysis of government policy, allowing the numbers to wash over them like a John Updike novel — or in this administration, more like a Stephen King horrorfest. For the rest of us, though, the numbers and calculations can prove daunting. Keith Hennessey puts the CBO’s latest killer analysis of the House health-care reform bill into graphic form, where everyone can be horrified equally.
For a baseline demonstration of the numbers, Hennessey charts the spending and taxes in the House bill, along with the expected revenue of the proposed tax increase — the “surtax” on the rich — over the next ten years:

Despite Barack Obama’s promises, the cost-saving techniques in ObamaCare only offset about a quarter of all the new spending in the plan by 2019. The offsetting tax increase, Rangel’s surtax, will only generate $87 billion a year by that time, slightly more than half of the next spending increase — and note that revenues almost flatline while spending increases at a much higher rate. What does that mean for the second decade? Hennessey has a chart for that, too:

Click on the image if you need a better look at the data. By the time we get to 2029, ObamaCare will run a $205 billion deficit in that year alone, almost as much as the CBO estimate of the program’s entire first decade. It’s a devastating analysis of ObamaCare, one which Hennessey calls a TKO of the proposal. These charts certainly make that case.
Be sure to read all of his analysis. Curl up in front of a fire. In fact, throw John Conyers’ copy on the logs, since he won’t be reading it before he votes.

BlowbackNote from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air’s community of registered readers. Please don’t assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
•The Health Care Debate: Are the intentions even legitimate? : Excellence In America
Comments
Comment pages: « 1 2 3 [4]

Rush had a great soundbite of o in 04 saying how we should not rush bills thru such as the patriot act before having time to read it!!! lol Rush is the man!!!

ohiobabe on July 28, 2009 at 1:53 PM

In general, firms that decided to stop sponsoring insurance coverage for their workers would not be able to reduce their operating costs because, in a competitive labor market, they would have to offer higher wages and other forms of compensation instead. Indeed, workers might be particularly motivated to demand such increases under the proposal because they would be required to obtain insurance. That added compensation would generally be taxable. (This consideration and the preceding one help explain why most workers are offered health insurance by their employers today.)
From the “new” CBO report AnninCA was crowing about.

And this is why AnninCa is full of it when she says it helps small businesses.

Explain it to us again, Ann!

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 2:00 PM

Show of hands, how many people would wash a rental car before returning it to the rental agency. Uh-huh. Point made.

Mallard T. Drake on July 28, 2009 at 1:48 PM
I actually did that once. Didn’t want them to look too closely at a Subaru Outback I took offroad.

guntotinglibertarian on July 28, 2009 at 2:04 PM

We’ve lost 7 major hospitals. BUT, do remember, this is LA. We are over-run with major trauma (gang fights) and illegal immigrants.

We are somewhat unique.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 1:47 PM
I doubt our gang problem is really any worse than any other major urban area, and we have the same immigrant issues as every other southern border state. The only difference is how our government chooses to deal with it.

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:10 PM

Small business cannot afford to offer insurance. I know. I’m on the board of a non-profit. It’s going to kill us. We’ll end up closing our staff-manned office and moving to phone soon.

Why? Healthcare.

We’ll just fire the staff to survive.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM

I doubt our gang problem is really any worse than any other major urban area, and we have the same immigrant issues as every other southern border state. The only difference is how our government chooses to deal with it.
Maybe. I honestly can’t tell. What seems to be killing CA has nothing to do with that issue.

It’s the unions and gov’t workers.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM

Liberals are hypocrites. They love to say that they’d be happy to pay more taxes, yet not one voluntarily pays more than they are required to on their 1040 forms. Likewise, those who decry the profit motive aren’t ashamed to take home as big a paycheck as they can get.

Mallard T. Drake on July 28, 2009 at 1:48 PM
oh, it’s worse than that. How many Limosine liberals have Tax accountants. I bet they don’t file a 1040EZ (gotta itemize that underwear).

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:13 PM

Small business cannot afford to offer insurance. I know. I’m on the board of a non-profit

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM
“small business” and “non-profit” are mutually exclusive. You have a basic misunderstanding of what business is, thus your inability to grasp anything associated with business.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:14 PM

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM
I thought you were leaving? Axelrod paying overtime today?

Knucklehead on July 28, 2009 at 2:18 PM

We’ll just fire the staff to survive.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Quite moral of you. Your prior staff will have ‘Free Health Care’, but won’t be able to afford to put food on the table. Therefore, they will either become sick, or die.

PappaMac on July 28, 2009 at 2:18 PM

Ann is on a board of a non-profit organization, which means her salary is paid for by the generosity of others.

She is no different than a State government employee – thinking that money grows on trees.

ghost707 on July 28, 2009 at 2:19 PM

“small business” and “non-profit” are mutually exclusive. You have a basic misunderstanding of what business is, thus your inability to grasp anything associated with business.
I worked in corporate America for most of my career, in finance.

I understand.

I was privvy to these issues during the S&L fall. My company survived well enough to give severance, at least.

I personally wrote executive compensation to meet federal requirements to stockholders, so I know what is required. I also wrote all communications regarding benefits to employees. I also was given an award by the industry for my communications program, which was listed as one of the selling points of my company because we had a policy of honest and open communications. It worked.

We told the truth. Employees loved it. The company was dying financially (due to bad loans) but thriving with customers (due to honesty).

I am not the idiot you think I am.

but…that’s my own resume.

Let’s hear yours.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM

It’s the unions and gov’t workers.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM
That’s a soundbite Anne. What’s killing CA is the mentality behind this. That somehow the motivation for government is to “make things better”. Unions and government workers are people too, and like anyone else they argue and work to keep their jobs. In the end, self interest rules whether it’s in corporate life or bureaucracy.

Government is not here to make things better. It’s here to ensure that things just work. If you want things to be better, great…DO IT YOURSELF. Do it through persuasion and example, not coercion with the power of government.

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Let’s hear yours.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Nice resume but, sorry, we aren’t hiring. I guess being on a non-profit “board” gets you invited to all the best parties. Did you hurt your arm while you were patting yourself on the back?

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Quite moral of you. Your prior staff will have ‘Free Health Care’, but won’t be able to afford to put food on the table. Therefore, they will either become sick, or die.
Non-profit is simpler than for-profit. We either can pay the bills and keep it going or not.

I think we have a year left. Because of healthcare? We’ll be shutting our own doors in about 12 months.

Our particular arm has lasted longer than any other. Most every other office closed and went to voicemail in the past year to two years.

Why? Healthcare.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Ann, please explain how the excerpt I cited above is consistent with your assertions about saving small businesses?

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 2:25 PM

Nice resume but, sorry, we aren’t hiring. I guess being on a non-profit “board” gets you invited to all the best parties. Did you hurt your arm while you were patting yourself on the back?
And your resume?

still waiting

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:28 PM

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM
If you would create a business model that actually generated profits, you might be able to keep your doors open. Whining that you don’t get enough donations to stay in business says more about what you do than anything associated with healthcare. Produce something that people want and you’ll

It’s a 12-step program, and people throw in a buck.

And it’s OK if we move to non-staff. Every other office has already done so.

But I can tell you, it’s due to the healthcare.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:32 PM

I didn’t announce I was leaving. That was Ginso.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:34 PM

AND Ginso has no resume.

Imagine this.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:36 PM

We told the truth. Employees loved it. The company was dying financially (due to bad loans) but thriving with customers (due to honesty).

I am not the idiot you think I am.

but…that’s my own resume.

Let’s hear yours.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM

Well since you understand the value of “truth”, then you will understand this. The truth is we can’t pay for granny’s liver transplant. The doctor needs to put food on his/her table, send his/her kids to college, and have a reasonable chance to avoid being sued because he/she isn’t omniscient (nor even perfect at what he/she does, just skilled. They already work a full week and can’t see all the patients who try to get in front of them. So what does granny do? How does the doctor decide between granny, the man with fractured arm, the kid with what looks like the flu, the lady with blood pressure of 200/100? Should he/she look at their resumes?

What’s your decision tree? Do you really think that any form of government will be able to handle that? When they can’t even keep a recreational park open?

You want people to be moral, but then you substitute in government regulations at the last second. They are NOT the same.

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM

AND Ginso has no resume.

Imagine this.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Yep….just a poor conservative boy in need of a 12-step program. Now if I could just find one that was run efficiently enough to stay open.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:38 PM

What’s your decision tree? Do you really think that any form of government will be able to handle that? When they can’t even keep a recreational park open?

I think we provide a structure. That’s reasonable.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:40 PM

I didn’t announce I was leaving. That was Ginso.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:34 PM

Wanna make a bet idiot?

Bye to my snark friends! :)

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 1:39 PM

Keep digging.

Knucklehead on July 28, 2009 at 2:41 PM

We have 2 employees. No group rate. It’s a killer.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM

That’s because it isn’t a group you twit. Do you understand anything about insurance pricing?

Jed_Eckert on July 28, 2009 at 2:41 PM

I think we provide a structure. That’s reasonable.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:40 PM

See…there’s your problem right there. You’ve shown to everyone that thinking is not your strong suit.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Well since you understand the value of “truth”, then you will understand this. The truth is we can’t pay for granny’s liver transplant.

I think this is ultimately why this topic is so emotional. The truth is that going to any lengths is very, very personal.

Do we really want gov’t involved? It becomes so tangled, even if the same problem comes up with private insurance.

For many reasons, people think gov’t should respond personally to their choices. Why they don’t think this with private?

I guess it’s a matter of training.

Anyway, that is the big leap.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:43 PM

Keep digging.

I said goodbye to you snarkers. You nitwit. LOL*

Man, isn’t this a day when the true idiocy is revealed?

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:32 PM

You always seem to ignore any inconvenient questions don’t you?

No reaction to my question on the right of one person to rob another at gunpoint?

Chainsaw56 on July 28, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Anyway, healthcare sounds dead on arrival to me.

You win.

But you lose, too.

I’m not so intrigued with GOP candidates.

I’ll probably veer back. I think this issue was a deal-breaker for me.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:47 PM

I know what healthcare is costing my non-profit. I know we’re seeing the end of the line. This organization has been in place since 1943.

And I know. We’re about to go out. And it’s directly due to healthcare.

We have 2 employees. No group rate. It’s a killer.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:29 PM

So, rather than cut insurance, your BOD is putting two people into the unemployment line?

BTW…before you get into a resume contest with me…I own my business and have 3 employees and a partner. It’s my second one, but the first with employees. I’ve also managed 100+ people set salaries/benefits/reviews etc (for 15yrs).

We are dying too…but not because of health care. We don’t offer it because we can’t afford it, and since you value “truth”, when I give them the choice, they want the paycheck.

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Limbaugh mentioned that Barry told the AARP town hallers today that Obamacare would also judge the quality of physician’s work and reward accordingly. So much for the Dr-patient relationship,..someone else will be judging results and treatment modes.
Also, payments to physicians would be “bundled” meaning they would be made in bunches rather than assuring a steady cash flow to the doctor for work he has done.

a capella on July 28, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Man, isn’t this a day when the true idiocy is revealed?

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Thanks for admitting what’s painfully obvious to the rest of us. Your idiocy has driven this thread over the cliff.

Knucklehead on July 28, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Chainsaw, I’ve answered every question, even risking being accused of “hijacking” the thread.

I think you hate my answers, frankly.

It’s OK. I really just don’t share the right-wing perspective on this at all.

What’s really odd to me?

This blog is pushing anti-reform, obviously. But this blog hates Palin, obviously.

I so don’t get it.

Palin is someone who could represent me. I get her. I don’t get you guys.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:51 PM

We are dying too…but not because of health care. We don’t offer it because we can’t afford it, and since you value “truth”, when I give them the choice, they want the paycheck.

No, this is the cheapest out there with 2 employees.

I agree. It sucks. They’ll lose their retirement, too.

It’s done. We can’t keep up.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:54 PM

This blog is pushing anti-reform, obviously. But this blog hates Palin, obviously.

I so don’t get it.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:51 PM

Well, I so don’t understand why you’re even here, valley girl.

Take a hike back over to play with the KosKiddies.

Knucklehead on July 28, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Ann, you haven’t answered every question. You haven’t answered my question about the specifics of how this helps small businesses, for example, in light of the findings of the very CBO report you cited.

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Ann, you haven’t answered every question. You haven’t answered my question about the specifics of how this helps small businesses, for example, in light of the findings of the very CBO report you cited.

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 2:55 PM

She meant it would help her non-profit “small business.” As for the other small businesses? She hasn’t thought much about that.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:57 PM

I don’t care what the bill looks like, as long as we punish the insurance companies for their “immoral profits” (Pelosi’s phrase).

guntotinglibertarian on July 28, 2009 at 2:57 PM

I think we provide a structure. That’s reasonable.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:40 PM

Like the structure of our legal system? How well does that work for the capital cases? Would we get “empathic” medical judges vs “strict constructionists”?

Or how about our tax code?

Maybe financial regulation system?

It would be foolishness to the extreme to actually put the life and death treatment decision into these peoples hands.

Anne, life is a chaotic system. You can’t predict it, you can’t control it, you can only react to it. Government reacts slowly and usually very poorly. It is not the right place for anything except the most basic of decisions (and who gets dialysis is not one of them).

Fighton03 on July 28, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Chainsaw, I’ve answered every question, even risking being accused of “hijacking” the thread.

You seem to have mastered the task of going back and re-posting your…. “Thoughts”.
Ref:

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:32 PM

So perhaps you can re-post you answers – Cause we sure didn’t see them.

But I guess when your in the wrong, you want to avoid certain issues and distract everyone to other tangents – like Palin, etc.

Chainsaw56 on July 28, 2009 at 3:00 PM

She meant it would help her non-profit “small business.” As for the other small businesses? She hasn’t thought much about that.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Ah, she’s in the “non-profit” world. That explains everything.

I’ve hired thousands of people over the years. There were only two types I absolutely would not consider hiring:

Anyone who had ever worked for government (military excepted).

Anyone who had ever worked for a non-profit.

Hell, I’ve hired ex-cons, recovering alcoholics, bankrupts. Because they have the capacity to change.

People who work for non-profits? They never change.

guntotinglibertarian on July 28, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Ah, she’s in the “non-profit” world. That explains everything.

guntotinglibertarian on July 28, 2009 at 3:01 PM

It’s better than you think with Ann. It’s a 2 person non-profit and she’s on the “Board“. But now, because we’re not going to get nationalized healthcare, they have to close down.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM

I VOLUNTEER for non-profits, gun…

I worked for corporate.

I do this for fun and for free

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:06 PM

No, this is the cheapest out there with 2 employees.

I agree. It sucks. They’ll lose their retirement, too.

It’s done. We can’t keep up.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Just how stupid do you think we are? If the reason you are layinging them off is because of the individual coverage you provide then you should be able to drop coverage and keep them. Just what is done?

When Obama cuts tax deductions on charitable giving to “cover” the healthcare costs – just how will that help pay YOUR salary and the charity’s expenses?

Further, just how will they lose their retirement?

Jed_Eckert on July 28, 2009 at 3:07 PM

Keep attacking.

It reveals you.

I LOVE my 12-step program. It contributes to society.

Far more than snarkers do.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Keep attacking.

It reveals you.

I LOVE my 12-step program. It contributes to society.

Far more than snarkers do.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Too bad it all depends on us evil capitalists to pay taxes and give donations to fund this great contribution of yours. Ironic, too.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 3:10 PM

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Just how stupid do you think we are? If the reason you are layinging them off is because of the individual coverage you provide then you should be able to drop coverage and keep them. Just what is done?

When Obama cuts tax deductions on charitable giving to “cover” the healthcare costs – just how will that help pay YOUR salary and the charity’s expenses?

Further, just how will they lose their retirement?

Retirement is set up long-term. They won’t meet the qualifications when we shut down.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:10 PM

Too bad it all depends on us evil capitalists to pay taxes and give donations to fund this great contribution of yours. Ironic, too.

I think ironic is that you have no resume.

Care to share you expertise?

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:12 PM

Hey Ann, I have a suggestion for you — how about you engage with the people who are asking you serious policy questions? Might improve the signal-to-noise ratio.

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 3:15 PM

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:12 PM

Here’s all the resume anyone here cares about. I don’t need anything from any of the people here…not money nor time nor explanation. Where I went to school and what I do in business is irrelevant. Why you thought your resume would be important comes from the flawed liberalism that inhabits your limited mind.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 3:18 PM

OK, enjoy folks.

I’ve got to leave.

Let me leave you with this thought.

You’re ushering in union rebirth.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Too bad it all depends on us evil capitalists to pay taxes and give donations to fund this great contribution of yours. Ironic, too.
genso on July 28, 2009 at 3:10 PM

Hey! That brings up another question:
[AnninCA will ignore it or blather on with some BS that I'd to be able to spread on my cornfield, but that's beside the point...]

AnninCA, Do you really expect the achievers and producers in this country to sacrifice themselves to a Statist utopia?

Chainsaw56 on July 28, 2009 at 3:20 PM

Chainsaw56 on July 28, 2009 at 3:20 PM

It was fun while it lasted. What scares me about Ann is that I know people who think like her. It’s not an act, just narrow mindedness at it’s worse.

genso on July 28, 2009 at 3:23 PM

It was fun while it lasted. What scares me about Ann is that I know people who think like her. It’s not an act, just narrow mindedness at it’s worse.
genso on July 28, 2009 at 3:23 PM

Yeah, I know.
But it’s fun to try and shake them out of their preconceived and narrow mindset with questions and get them to rethink their assumptions, sometime it’s works.

Chainsaw56 on July 28, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Retirement is set up long-term. They won’t meet the qualifications when we shut down.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:10 PM

So you offer a defined benefit plan for two people that man the phones? Yet you blame healthcare costs for running you out of business. Perhaps you should look into the mirror.

Jed_Eckert on July 28, 2009 at 3:30 PM

You’re ushering in union rebirth.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM

For which assertion you provide as much support as you have for anything else, Ann. I’m going back to ignoring you. You’re simply not equipped for this discussion.

DrSteve on July 28, 2009 at 3:30 PM

You’re ushering in union rebirth.
AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM

As in Union/Confederate?

Chainsaw56 on July 28, 2009 at 3:31 PM

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM

So when offering healthcare is mandated by law, they’ll somehow find the means?

No one is forced to work at a place that offers no benefits. If the feds would let the MARKET COMPETE for labor, benefits would be part of that competition.

I worked at a job with no benefits. My wife went into the Emrgency Room and had an apendectomy at midnight… this might shock you… but they sent me a bill! I set up payments and paid it off…

Then I got a job with health benefits. I had more expensive surgery… when the 20% part came due, my surgeon said “forget it.” He took his 80% from the insurance company and forgave the rest of my debt to him.

mankai on July 28, 2009 at 4:20 PM

I said goodbye to you snarkers. You nitwit. LOL*

Man, isn’t this a day when the true idiocy is revealed?

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM

Yep. Yours.

It isn’t non-profit if you are PAYING employees. That is a for profit business that is giving its profit to employees before shareholders/investors.

If your non-profit CARED, then none of them would get paid.

I did St. Vincent de Paul when I was in Alabama. NONE of us got paid.

It’s called volunteering, something you don’t see as much on the left (Read Authur Brooks – “Who Really Cares?”).

Sapwolf on July 28, 2009 at 5:06 PM

Keep attacking.

It reveals you.

I LOVE my 12-step program. It contributes to society.

Far more than snarkers do.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:08 PM

Sounds like you are a leech on society.

Stop the BS and force your charity to a volunteer basis.

THEN you’d be a true help to society and exhibit a charitable spirit.

But you WON’T because the average lib talks compassion but doesn’t deliver, and in the few times they do it is almost ALWAYS with OTHER peoples money.

I had to put up with you holier than thou BS artists all the time when I lived there.

Paid money to spend other peoples’ money for wasteful programs whose purpose was the feed their f’in egos into thinking they are generous ones who only think of others.

Pure shit!!!!!

And you have a wonderful imploding state to illustrate it.

CA is bankrupt in more ways than in their state budget.

Sapwolf on July 28, 2009 at 5:13 PM

People who work for non-profits? They never change.

guntotinglibertarian on July 28, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Yep. And their f’in entitlement attitude makes you want to scream.

Sapwolf on July 28, 2009 at 5:16 PM

Retirement is set up long-term. They won’t meet the qualifications when we shut down.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:10 PM

So you offer a defined benefit plan for two people that man the phones? Yet you blame healthcare costs for running you out of business. Perhaps you should look into the mirror.

Jed_Eckert on July 28, 2009 at 3:30 PM

An F’in defined benefit plan for an f’in non-profit?

You gotta be out of your mind. What arrogant pukes.

It’s supposed to be a ‘non-profit’. God, I’m sick of the greed and waste.

A non-profit run by Marie Antoinette.

Sapwolf on July 28, 2009 at 5:19 PM

(Although, I personally do NOT wish to live in a third-world country where people are dying in the streets.)

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Well CA, that is where we are heading. If you want to see if we are blowing smoke or talking sense, just go find a country where they get the medical care we now have, when they need it, like we can now, for free, that is not rationed. While you are at it, do the research on the laws governing private practice in those countries, if they allow it. Lots of luck on that search. Read the bill. It is long, a tad over a 1000 pages, you seem to have time to do that despite the dems demanding that no one read it, just pass it. As for rationing, let me tell you how you get there. It is like any other government legistlated expense that places a limit on what the goverment will pay for. It’s in the bill that you can keep your current plan, but it also says you can not change companies or buy a plan if you did not have one. If you lose or drop your insurance, your only choice is Obama’s. That is the first step of limiting your choices. The next is limiting the choice of doctor you can see, and their right to have a private practice. That will come up in the search you are doing. If the government can not pay for it we don’t have it. Take operating rooms for just one example. They are expensive to maintain and use. Those will become limited because of government funding shortages and require long waits to get the use of one. That will also come up in your research. You have already had the problem of administrative cost, especially when it envolves the goverment, laid our for you. Not being able to get the medical care or facility that you need because there is not enough money to provide it is rationing any way you cut the cards.
If that is not enough, read the bill again. It clearly states that healthcare is provided on a tier basis based on age and probablity of a recovery. At age 65 the line is drawn for the average citizens. That is where they see the limited resources are better spent on the younger people who are still productive. It also is the time that you will have your first end of life plan counseling, and every five years thereafter that you chose to live with whatever the pain pills do not help. You might recall Obama’s own words on that. Why would this be needed? because there is a limited amount of healthcare that can be provided, so it must be rationed. Again, its in the bill. Google it!

Franklyn on July 28, 2009 at 5:25 PM

Ann:

My brother runs a small business and he has been following all this very closely. He says this bill will be bad for guys like him.

Terrye on July 28, 2009 at 5:30 PM

And the truth is the government could actually pick up the tab for the uninsured for a fraction of the cost of this big fat ugly plan.

Terrye on July 28, 2009 at 5:31 PM

Economists love nothing more than curling up in front of a fireplace with a financial analysis of government policy, allowing the numbers to wash over them like a John Updike novel — or in this administration, more like a Stephen King horrorfest.

God, you make it seem almost dirty when you say it that way. I mean, I buy it a glass of wine first, turn on some nice music…

kbanaian on July 28, 2009 at 5:44 PM

I think I’m going to cancel my contribution of 1/2 hour of pay per month to my local non-profit because of Anne.

That money would obviously do much more good in my pocket than in the hands of boobs that may very possibly think like her.

quax1 on July 28, 2009 at 6:33 PM

You’re ushering in union rebirth.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM

And you want to usher in the next holocaust.

daesleeper on July 28, 2009 at 7:54 PM

In fact, throw John Conyers’ copy on the logs, since he won’t be reading it before he votes

It ought to be a felony to vote, or to force a vote, over an unread bill by people whose votes hold power over our lives.

Shay on July 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM

And the truth is the government could actually pick up the tab for the uninsured for a fraction of the cost of this big fat ugly plan.

Terrye on July 28, 2009 at 5:31 PM

Exactly right. It’s not about healthcare; it’s about government control.

davidk on July 28, 2009 at 8:45 PM

Ah, she’s in the “non-profit” world. That explains everything.

I’ve hired thousands of people over the years. There were only two types I absolutely would not consider hiring:

Anyone who had ever worked for government (military excepted).

Anyone who had ever worked for a non-profit.
guntotinglibertarian on July 28, 2009 at 3:01 PM

So if someone had worked for a non-profit organization like a homeless shelter, they’d be ineligible under your line of thought. Nice.

Dark-Star on July 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM

Small business cannot afford to offer insurance. I know. I’m on the board of a non-profit. It’s going to kill us. We’ll end up closing our staff-manned office and moving to phone soon.

Why? Healthcare.

We’ll just fire the staff to survive.

AnninCA on July 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM

So what? Why is it the entire nation’s friggin’ problem if they “fire the staff”? My boss just laid off 30 people, do you care? Didn’t think so.

leftnomore on July 28, 2009 at 9:08 PM

So if someone had worked for a non-profit organization like a homeless shelter, they’d be ineligible under your line of thought. Nice.

Dark-Star on July 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM

Especially a homeless shelter, chump.

guntotinglibertarian on July 29, 2009 at 12:41 AM

So if someone had worked for a non-profit organization like a homeless shelter, they’d be ineligible under your line of thought. Nice.

Dark-Star on July 28, 2009 at 9:00 PM

yep. you just don’t get it do you? There are people who succeed and people who make excuses. It doesn’t fit your Snow White, Walt Disney world, but it is the real world.

Having hired and fired people, having written literally hundreds of performance reviews, I have to agree with guntoting. Nice doesn’t factor into the equation. Results do. If you factor nice, close your doors and let people go, because the nasty secret to management is you can’t be fair, you can only be equally unfair. If you can’t understand the difference…pick up your name tag and start taking orders.

Fighton03 on July 29, 2009 at 2:19 AM

The “liberal intelligentsia” here doesn’t understand the concept of a backward bending supply curve.

If you raise taxes too much, less tax revenue will be generated because people (business owners and workers) will change their behavior. They will substitute work or capital risk for the positive good of more free time.

We are way over the point of optimizing revenue via taxation. If you cut taxes, the economy will grow. In fact govt. will reap more money — just a lesser share of the economy percentage wise. So, more people will be able to afford health insurance on their own.

These CBO, executive or congressional projections probably do not take into account any negative feedback mechanism of a backward bending suppy curve.

The deficit would probably be quite a bit higher than reported in the lead article. The govt. either out of ignorance or in outright deception rarely gets these figures right.

trollkiller on July 29, 2009 at 3:00 AM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4