Gates: Sure, I’ll have a beer with Crowley and Obama
posted at 7:00 pm on July 25, 2009 by Allahpundit
Sounds fun, especially for Crowley. What better way to spend a Saturday night than being lectured by two leftist Ivy League pedants on a subject you’re already an expert in? If the rhetoric has already reached the point of teeth-gnashing pretentiousness demonstrated below — “larger meaning,” “teaching moment” — imagine what it’ll be like in person.
Maybe they can have a “friendly” chat about that documentary on racial profiling that Crowley’s inspired Gates to make.
“It was very kind of the President to phone me today. Vernon Jordan is absolutely correct: my unfortunate experience will only have a larger meaning if we can all use this to diminish racial profiling and to enhance fairness and equity in the criminal justice system for poor people and for people of color.
And to that end, I look forward to studying the history of racial profiling in a new documentary for PBS. I told the President that my principal regret was that all of the attention paid to his deeply supportive remarks during his press conference had distracted attention from his health care initiative. I am pleased that he, too, is eager to use my experience as a teaching moment, and if meeting Sgt. [James] Crowley for a beer with the President will further that end, then I would be happy to oblige.
After all, I first proposed that Sgt. Crowley and I meet as early as last Monday. If my experience leads to the lessening of the occurrence of racial profiling, then I would find that enormously gratifying. Because, in the end, this is not about me at all; it is about the creation of a society in which ‘equal justice before law’ is a lived reality.”
Right, except that arguably Gates’s problem with Crowley is that he did distribute equal justice. He saw a guy attempting to break into a house, confronted him about it, and when the guy popped off, he hauled him in for disorderly conduct — even though he’s a public intellectual, Harvard eminence, and official Friend of Barack. To put it another way, Crowley stands accused of two distinct abuses of power: Wrongly arresting a suspect because he’s black and wrongly arresting a suspect because he was rude. One is racist, the other isn’t. Ashley Herzog’s point that insolence towards police does not a criminal make is well taken, but of course that wasn’t the type of abuse Gates and Obama hinted at; they opted for theory number one, not number two. The question is why. Take it away, Patterico.
Blowback
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Is it just me? Without having read all the comments, all I can think of is that once again, Barry is going to weasel out of this by insincerely inviting the object of his “trouble” to the White House; He’ll sit serenely by, allow the press a few gratuitous pics, and wait to be showered with post-racial accolades.
It’ll make me sick if that officer has to stand there and accept his cheap ass, non-apology.
anniekc on July 26, 2009 at 9:23 AM
He did it during the Dem primary, and my thought at the time was similar to yours. That is irresponsible. Sure enough, we see a real example of irresponsible leadership from him regarding this episode.
AnninCA on July 26, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Wonder what brand?
marklmail on July 26, 2009 at 10:11 AM
P.S. It won’t work. People see Obama differently now. He smoked his “post-racial” facade. Can’t unring that bell.
marklmail on July 26, 2009 at 10:13 AM
I would tell the President to issue an actual apology for smearing me as a racist first, if I were you Crowley. Frankly, I think you’re a dope.
dogsoldier on July 26, 2009 at 10:17 AM
OBAMA FOR NOBEL PEACE PRIZE!
fossten on July 26, 2009 at 10:21 AM
release the tapes the morning of the meeting. It will change the tone and give the Sgt. a more level playing field.
Willie on July 26, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Better still, Sgt Crowley should take a copy of he recording with him, invite the press to record the interaction/beer-share live, then all three can play the tape line-by-line and discuss.
THAT would be true teaching moment.
scituate_tgr on July 26, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Sgt. Crowley coolly and calmly baited Professor Gates into getting arrested.
There’s only one relevant question to ask Crowley:
When you invited Prof. Gates to come out on the porch and continue his tirade, were you aware that he could then be arrested for disorderly conduct, something you couldn’t do in his home?
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 10:37 AM
The police report does not indicate that he “invited” Gates outside, except initially, when Gates refused.
AnninCA on July 26, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Crowley going to have a beer with Gates and Obama will be like Don Imus inviting Al Sharpton on his show… a trainwreck clusterfark that no good can come from.
The meeting will be totally excruciating for Crowley as Barry and Henry dump all their hatred and grievances on a man that never did anything wrong!
Barry ‘post-racial’? HAH! – he’s all about race and will play the race card whenever the opportunity arises!
rockbend on July 26, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Juan Williams on Fox News Sunday just destroyed Obama and Gates on this issue. He flatly said, and I agree, this has nothing to do with racial profiling.
He mentioned that 72% of the country thinks Obama blew this. Even 31% of blacks think he blew it.
I don’t know the answer, but Crowley was radioed and the neighbor reiterated that there was a second black man involved. Gates had established by that time who he is, but Crowley still had a duty to rule out the identity, whereabouts, and so forth of the second man. If there aren’t any questions as to those matters, I still don’t have a problem with Crowley’s moving Gates’s braying ass outside so that onlookers could serve as witnesses for how Gates was conducting himself.
On second thought, Gates should have been arrested for impeding a lawful investigation–obstruction of justice.
BuckeyeSam on July 26, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Verbatim, in Crowley’s words, from the police report:
Sgt. Crowley is a good cop and probably a nice guy. He figured out how to arrest Gates for giving him attitude. That’s what cops do. Why? Because they can, like dogs licking their balls. Very few people have any power over someone giving them a hard time. Cops do, so they exercise that power.
They’re not bad people, just cops.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Secret Service better check him good at the door. He’s probably carrying a switchblade. You can bet that two Harvard boys in same room will belittle everyone else there.
bluegrass on July 26, 2009 at 10:57 AM
He tried to show his ID to Gates, but Gates wouldn’t even pay attention. It was simply time to get out of that house.
Attributing motive to Crowley for setting Gates up is merely a guess, based on prejudice that cops “cheat.” There’s no evidence that’s the case here.
AnninCA on July 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM
So you’re saying that Crowley made a mistake and arrested him for the wrong thing?
The fact is that according to his own police report Crowley had already decided that Gates was legally in his own home and had reported so to his superiors via radio. Because he believed Gates to be the resident of the home, at that point he no longer had any probable cause to believe any criminal activity had taken place, at least as far as Gates was concerned.
Gates was not acting suspiciously. He was *standing* in his own foyer, looking at the cop, looking at him. He didn’t flee, like a burglar would do. Crowley’s first act was to tell Gates to come outside. He only told him that he was investigating a break-in *after* he Gates refused to come outside. Gates did, however, cooperate and let Crowley in the house, opening the door. At that point, Gates’ racialist tirade began, along with DYKWIA, calling the chief of police, etc.
Crowley’s own police report shows exactly what he did, and why. He specifically states that he had decided that Gates was legally in the house, but that Gates’ behavior “confused” the officer.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Looks to me like Gates had a little help licking his own balls, It was the President of the United States and North Illinois. Doing what he does best , race baiting. He, Axelrod and Rahm that is!
bluegrass on July 26, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Are there ever any home invasions by police impostors?
Don’t we advise women to drive slowly to the nearest police station if they think a police impostor is trying to stop them?
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Still waiting for some Harvard educated fool to tell me what the f*ck this has to do with the economy or health reform.
bluegrass on July 26, 2009 at 11:09 AM
It IS confusing. An officer arrives after you break into your house to check out a B&E, the only sane response is to laugh, say it was me breaking into my house, show ID, cooperate, and thank the officer for doing his job.
Instead, this loon went off like he was being profiled.
AnninCA on July 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM
While I have no proof, I would be a fool to dismiss the possibility that Gates planned this whole incident.
What sort of man makes a comment about a policeman’s mother? I’ll tell you. One that wants to be arrested. Even before I got my driver’s license, I knew better than to lip off to cops under any circumstances, let alone one who was there with the intentions of protecting my home.
And sure, I’ve had to break into various residences of mine a couple three times. It happens. However, Gates definitely has multiple motives for wanting this attention. Aside from publishing a book in February of this year that no one seems to care about, he also wanted to use this incident in an upcoming documentary about racial profiling.
The entire incident is just too convenient for Gates’ career, and his actions are simply not the actions of a man who had the unfortunate experience of being locked out of his house.
ynot4tony2 on July 26, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Some of my friends think this was a contrived incident to get the healthcare war off the front page, but I discount that, since it was so poorly done. But, y’know, it just might have been a contrived incident that just went wrong…
Bozo and his circus are not very smart, deep thinking people.
dogsoldier on July 26, 2009 at 11:31 AM
They will enlighten him on how he is a racist even though he doesn’t realize it.
peacenprosperity on July 26, 2009 at 11:33 AM
On second thought….
dogsoldier on July 26, 2009 at 11:33 AM
We all know a racist when we see or hear one.
We clearly say this the other night. Obama & friend clearly on display for all to see & hear.
Gulf Coast on July 26, 2009 at 11:38 AM
And fathers have been known to rape thier daughters that is why abortion should be available without parental consent to all 9 year olds.
How do liberals even learn how to tie thier shoes?
peacenprosperity on July 26, 2009 at 11:38 AM
This planted diversion has REEEEALLY backfired on Barry. He had it all planned out to the letter, but accidentally said “stupidly”. That ONE WORD started the fire. I bet Axelrod and Emanuel sh*t their tutus when Obama uttered that. LOVE IT.
marklmail on July 26, 2009 at 11:58 AM
Apparently, Gates was jet-lagged. He was coming off of 30 hours of travel, yadda, yadda.
So his slip into racist thinking was probably, in part, due to his physical exhaustion.
Still, I think he is a loon.
AnninCA on July 26, 2009 at 12:03 PM
rockbend on July 26, 2009 at 12:06 PM
You’re right. And one fact that seems to be escaping every pontificating ‘legal” expert in the jabbering circuit is that Sgt. Crowley was on the job, in uniform, investigating a possible crime in action and that Mr. Havid was literally under the mercy of Crowley’s professional assessment of scene–not the other way around. Gates had no control of said situation, the white officer was in the superior position and Gates went into tantrum mode once he realized he had to eat humble pie for a minute or two.
This officer of the law does not merit any second-guessing in this situation. Arrests just like these happen every single day across the country. People are overlooking the fact that Gates is being given celebrity (VIP) treatment here by media. How many people are sitting in jail now after being arrested for disorderly conduct?
RepubChica on July 26, 2009 at 12:35 PM
A ton. And usually, the charges are dismissed, as in this case.
AnninCA on July 26, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Officer Crowley should not go to the white house with regards to this matter.
If Crowley appears at the white house, Obama will use his ‘bully pulpit’ to spin this into some sort of agreement by ‘all’ that Crowley was wrong.
Obama has no compunction with lieing to the media while using the people he lies about as props! Do not forget what Obama did with that fellow at caterpillar earlier this year.
Freddy on July 26, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Right, and in 100% of those cases the arrests were made under the discretion of the officer, and the officer alone. That’s why these cases are so sensitive. Which goes back to my original point about everyone in the media and the legal experts they keep dragging on harping about the use of Officer Crowley’s personal and professional discretion on scene in favor of the one they’re rooting for (Gates). They have no business doing this is my opinion.
RepubChica on July 26, 2009 at 1:00 PM
God damn america – Lyrics, Rev. Wright, Barack Obama, “Skip” Gates
God damn america
Land that I hate
Spit on her
And rape her
Through the night
With no light
From above
From the ghettos
To the crack-houses
To the slums
Red with blood
God damn america
My homey crack home
God damn america
Land that I hate
Spit on her
And rape her
Through the night
With no light
From above
From the ghettos
To the crack-houses
To the slums
Red with blood
God damn america
My homey crack home
God damn america
God damn america
(shouting:)
God damn america
My homey crack home
izoneguy on July 26, 2009 at 1:06 PM
I read a letter online somewhere last night from a woman in MA. She said that for MA police with long memories another buddy of Obama’s has some history with law inforcement in their state. Back in the day, the Weather Underground killed a MA policeman, leaving a widow with 8 children.
Judicial Watch has filed a MA Public Records Request for the tapes already. I would love to be a fly on the wall of the offices of the mayor of Cambridge and Governor Patrick right now. There is no way the public will stand for those tapes to be supressed now.
oldoldbabs on July 26, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Gates’ behavior gives credence to William F. Buckley’s famous quote about Harvard professors.
AaronGuzman on July 26, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Sorry, I left the thread for a while. As I said in the comment that you piggybacked on:
Let me also be clear that I believe that this incident has nothing to do with racial profiling. Gates was not pulled over in a car or stopped in the street simply because he is black. So racial profiling is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. Get that?
In the end, whether the arrest was for disorderly conduct or for interference with a lawful investigation (I reiterate mention of the second man), Crowley felt the need that an arrest was the only way to defuse a volatile situation. I’m not going to second-guess him. And I’m not going to attribute his conduct to race. That’s a strawman and a red herring–and I’m not taking the bait.
The TV blabbers have argued that if Larry Summers had been the professor, he never would have been arrested. I disagree because it’s a lousy analogy. Instead, I posit Professor William Ayers, white professor. Professor Ayers, shortly after returning home, answers the door to find a cop, soon thereafter establishes his identification, but then proceeds to verbal abuse the cop as a Nazi stormtrooper dispatched by the remnants of the Bush administration. The cop, still needing to establish the identity and whereabouts of the second person, ushers Ayers (still ranting) out of the house and, eventually, cuffs him.
In both cases, each a**hole is arrested–regardless or race.
My conclusion is that Gates got arrested for being an a**hole and getting in the way. I side with the cop, and I see no race involved.
To the extent, if any, that race is involved, it lies with the neighbor who evidently doesn’t know her neighbor well and can’t tell luggage from bookbags. As I’ve said in many threads, my guess is that the white neighbor lady is a flaky liberal, and the cop is now taking the heat for her racial hysteria.
BuckeyeSam on July 26, 2009 at 1:21 PM
The Gates minions on TV keep pointing to the fact that the police dropped the charges as proof that Crowley was wrong.I don’t think the police dropped the charges, I think it was probably the prosecutor’s office after a few phone calls from the high and mighty like Patrick. I’d like to know if the police were even consulted before the charges were dropped.
oldoldbabs on July 26, 2009 at 1:22 PM
A more reasonable explanation of the facts of this case are as follows: Sgt. Crowley initially asked Gates to step outside for reasons of officer safety – it’s much safer for the officer on the front porch than it is inside, surrounded by potential weapons. Remember, upon first contact with Gates, Sgt. Crowley doesn’t know who Gates is. He only knows what he was told by his dispatcher – that this was a possible burglary in progress. Later on, after Sgt. Crowley is leaving, having established that Gates was the lawful resident, Gates follows him out front, yelling obscenities at Crowley. Crowley warns Gates three times to cease and desist, but Gates continues his tirade. In CA, we call that Delaying or Obstructing an Officer, and it’s a misdemeanor regardless of where it occurs.
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 1:28 PM
The sad thing about this entire affair is that racial profiling does go on in this country every day. But the likes of Al Sharpton and Professor Gates, who make a darn good living out of keeping us divided as a nation, have so desensitized many that genuine calls of racism are beginning to fall on deaf ears. Quite a legacy for a “man of God” and a Harvard scholar.
oldoldbabs on July 26, 2009 at 1:42 PM
So Gates needs to go over to his neighbor and cuss her out.
I have a neighbor behind me who is a grumpy old man. I have 2
young sons. One day the guy comes over and says that my sons
broke a window with a BB gun. I asked him if he say them shooting
over the fence. He said no but he knows they have a BB gun.
The neighorbor next to him also has some kids – teenagers about 17 or 18
and I know for a fact that they shot one of my windows with a BB gun
because I saw them do it. I did not confront them, I just put some tape on
it and called my insurance company. A window is nothing to get steamed about – all that will do is blowup in your face.
So the old guy was getting in my face and starts stepping into my house.
I really got angry and told him if he accuses my family of anything he better
have photo or video evidence or I would call the cops the next time he stepped into my house. I poked my finger on his chest and said next time he better bring more people. He ran away and everytime I see him he averts his gaze and knows better than to mess with us.
So don’t let the RaceBaiters get the upper hand. Fight back and never quit.
izoneguy on July 26, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Agreed. These kinds of prosecutions are often discretionary.
Sage wisdom. Obama better get on the right side of this one, or he’ll set a precedent for second-guessing the commonsense conduct of every cop around the country. I’ll add that the information provided by the dispatcher was reinforced on the scene by the calling neighbor who met him on the scene and who (I assume) was watching the scene during the time between her call and Crowley’s arrival. Also, something not discussed by anyone is that the dispatcher and the neighbor mentioned a second suspect. Crowley had a not only the right but the legal duty to personally establish the identity and whereabouts of the second man. And none of this has anything to do with race other than the mere fact that Crowley is white and Gates is black.
Substitute Bill Ayers for Gates and we have the same result except Obama is not complaining about race.
BuckeyeSam on July 26, 2009 at 1:49 PM
I know this will sound terrible, but if the percentage of crimes committed by one race, vastly outnumbers their percentage of citizenship in a country, isn’t it only logical to profile a race, at least subconsciously, and shouldn’t it be the duty, of that race, to try and rectify the problem?
Jeff from WI on July 26, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Not really. He’d already established, to his own satisfaction, that Gates was likely the legal resident.
If he was concerned about a second man, he didn’t express any such concern. He didn’t ask to search the rest of the house. Gates gave consent to his entry and never told him to leave. He had every opportunity to see if another “suspect” was in the house, but he chose to leave.
In fact, having established in his own mind that Gates was the likely legal resident, and that there was indeed a report of a break-in, shouldn’t Crowley have asked him if there were any intruders in the home, for Gates and his own safety?
Nope, at the point that Crowley started believing Gates had every right to be there it turned into a simple case of giving attitude to a cop.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 1:49 PM
If I was Sgt. Crowley, I’d tell them both to get bent.
I wish the shooting death of a US Border Patrol Agent invoked as much anger as this racist, waste of skin professor and his friend, Idiot in Chief has….Prayers to the family and quick execution of his murderers!
HornetSting on July 26, 2009 at 1:51 PM
You would think, but our political correctness and a$$hats like r-tardronnie will never let that happen. Common sense does not compute in the era of obama.
Ever seen First 48 or Crime 360 on A&E…..in the four years that I’ve watched it, there has been maybe a couple of white people, one of them being killed by her black boyfriend…..but, of course, that would be ‘racist’….
HornetSting on July 26, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Here’s the only relevant question:
With tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of Americans contacted by police every year under similar circumstances to the case at hand (e.g. false burglar alarms, accidental 911 calls, false reports of crimes, etc), how many, like the “scholar” Gates, manage to skillfully maneuver their way into handcuffs?
As has been previously pointed out, had Gates simply paused for a second to realize why the officer was there and cooperated with the officer’s reasonable, lawful request, nothing would have happened to him. Nothing.
Instead, upon first sight of the white police officer at his front door, Gates profiled Crowley to be a rogue, racist cop. In reality, Crowley is the true victim of racial profiling here.
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 1:55 PM
Sorry, you’re drawing conclusions from the information available that simply don’t follow.
What about the second guy? And what did Crowley do to trigger Gates’s verbal abuse? Sorry, Gates’s conduct was 10 yards beyond “attitude.”
BuckeyeSam on July 26, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Just an older black man, *standing* in the foyer of the home, looking at him through the glass storm door. His actions were not suspicious. He made no attempt to flee and in fact opened the door for Sgt. Crowley to enter.
Remember, upon first contact with Crowley, Prof. Gates doesn’t know who Crowley is, just a man in a uniform, who could be a police impostor, asking him to leave the safety of his own home.
Gates’ initial refusal to leave the home, particularly when Crowley initially neglected to tell him that he was investigating a break-in was completely reasonable and certainly legal. His further reactions, though not very reasonable, were still legal until Crowley smartly enticed him to come outside and get arrested.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Agreed. Go cops.
BuckeyeSam on July 26, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Wow, you must do yoga to be able to twist yourself into such an illogical knot sticking up for an elitist asshole who wouldn’t want you to park your car on his street. Maybe officer Crowley was an alien who came down to abduct the brilliant human gates to do experiments on him. Yeak, that’s the ticket!
peacenprosperity on July 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM
First bold print: the tinfoil brigade has arrived!
Second bold print: nice qualifying hedge; great understatement.
Third bold print: meathead cop fools Harvard University professor. Game over. Try again.
BuckeyeSam on July 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Don’t bother arguing with rock…his name describes what is in his head….he only comes out when there is a cop thread, to further his agenda of playing the victim. He hates cops, he has a problem with authority and laws, and he uses his postings to attack the brave men and women that have to protect even a$$hats like rockhead.
HornetSting on July 26, 2009 at 2:04 PM
What about the second guy? I already explained that Crowley, at that point, had no reason to think a break-in had occurred since the apparent legal resident of the home was there. As I said, if he was so concerned about a second man, simultaneously with acknowledging that Gates was there lawfully a conscientious cop not trying to jam Gates up would have been concerned for Gates’ own safety and asked to search the rest of the house.
Apparently what triggered the verbal abuse is assuming that Gates was a suspect, asking an innocent man to leave his own home, and not bothering to mention a reported break-in until after Gates’ temper had been provoked.
If Gates’ behavior was so bad, what crime did he commit inside his own home? Crowley and his fellow officer Figueroa could have easily restrained a 60 year old cripple. No, Gates committed no crime until he left the house.
Like the constitutional experts say, it’s legal to verbally abuse a cop in your own home.
Like I said, cops are about the only folks whose job lets them punish people who give them attitude. It’s not surprising that they treat it like a perk.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:06 PM
So why wasn’t Gates yelling “IMPOSTER! IMPOSTER!”?
By your logic, how do we know Obama isn’t a Presidential imposter, just a man in a suit, asking us to leave the safety of our 401Ks and private health care plans?
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 2:08 PM
So HornetSting, are you capable of making an actual argument, or do you just use insults?
Even monkeys can fling feces.
And no, giving cops attitude isn’t a crime. It’s punished in this country, but only because authoritarians like you think that the cops will always be on your side, and let them get away with it.
It’s interesting. I can complain about lawyers as a group and get no argument here, even from many lawyers. I can complain about doctors as a group, politicians, civil rights leaders, Democrats, squishy Republicans. All of them are fair game. But the agents of the state who can do the most damage to you life if they abuse their power get a free pass.
Such bold advocates for liberty!
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Here goes again. You must take yoga to be able to twist yourself in knots that way defending an elitist jerk that wouldn’t want you to park your car on his street.
How abouut…..Crowley was an alien from another planet who was there to abduct the brilliant earthling gates and do horrible experiments on him. That would have been as likely as a white cop hassling a harvard professor in front a a crowd of neighbors and fellow officers because he was black.
By the way, my guess is that demographics would show the majority of people on that street share gates political philosophy. How come they haven’t been on TV telling about the horrible police brutality?
peacenprosperity on July 26, 2009 at 2:14 PM
If the reports are correct Crowley is a big Obama supporter so …
If we were talking about a noral person I’d feel for him because Obama has put him in n intolerable situation. There’s no graceful way to decline and going means you capitulate to the circus and aquiesce to an agenda beyond your control.
Would YOU go? Would you have the guts to say no?
Gates is an unpleasant piece of work and Obama is an evil, evil man.
But the most bazar thing about all of this is … BEER? Obama is not the beer type.
BrideOfRove on July 26, 2009 at 2:15 PM
normal – pardon typo
BrideOfRove on July 26, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Actually, your “logic” is a complete non-sequitor.
To the point of your question, Prof. Gates in fact asked Crowley for his identification numerous times.
Crowley’s police union made a point of saying how disheartening it is for the president, who has some role as the chief law enforcer in country (the Attorney General works for him), to criticize police officers.
Do you really want to let an agent of the state, who works for Obama (in a manner of speaking) into your home without producing proper identification?
If this was an EPA agent checking on the energy efficiency of your home you’d ask for id (and most of the HotAir readers would tell them to take a hike).
Cops=State
By now I’d think that most of my fellow conservatives would have figured that out.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Actually, there are a lot of us in this business who believe it’s all about helping people, not necessarily punishing them. The courts dish out the punishment.
Per capita, there’s a lot more Alinskyite politicians and Harvard scholars who enjoy punishing people who give them attitude than police officers. They most definitely treat it like a perk.
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Because that would be speaking in generalities and most here would agree in general. We are talking about a specific incident with lots of witnesses. An incident, by the way, that is not uncommon and does not usually wind up with someone getting arrested. How many black citizens were pulled over last week for traffic violations and abused? Not enough to make it into the news because, generally, it doesn’t really happen. Sorry all infected with political correctness, but it may have been a common occurrence in isolated parts of this country 59 or more years ago but it isn’t a common occurrence anywhere in this country anymore. Believe the myth, believe the narrative, but don’t argue that you have lost your power when you so willingly accept.
peacenprosperity on July 26, 2009 at 2:21 PM
I’m not really defending Gates. Some of his actions were very reasonable, like refusing to leave his home and demanding ID from the officer. Other actions were outrageous and over the top, though legal until he left the house.
Crowley was presented with a dilemma and he said so to his superiors. He had an innocent man screaming at him. So he did what cops do and figured out how to arrest him.
Fish like to swim and birds like to fly and cops like to arrest folks who give them attitude.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
He told him his name and his badge and name were on his chest. Did you want them to exchange insurance cards?
peacenprosperity on July 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Great point.
I should have listened to you, Hornet…Sorry, everybody, for feeding the troll and expecting any semblance of a logical response.
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 2:28 PM
gates got arrested because his obnoxious, rude, boorish and out of control behavior. He pushed the officers into a corner. The charges were dropped and released because, conjecture but I’d bet money, he was calmed down and very humble when he got to the precinct. I’m sure Crowley and the other cops had no problem with the charges being dropped because they knew he was a jerk and the punishment to that point fit the crime. It would have cost time and money to pursue it any longer and they sent the idiot home.
peacenprosperity on July 26, 2009 at 2:30 PM
I think you have proven that all over this the blog, rockhead.
Your reputation proceeds you. You only show up to insult the cops, you relish the oppurtunity whenever an officer is put under a microscope and people like you ALWAYS find a way to play the victim, just like this racist professor did. You and your ilk make an officer’s job that much more dangerous because you are too much of a yellow belly to actually do anything to get a beat down. You argue about your rights and what grievances you have with the officer, even if they are in the past. You condemn all officers as muscleheads that relish their authority. They have to have that authority when the deal with real dangers, not just jellospined a$$hats like yourself. You are just a nuisance, a splatter on the windshield, but officers have to deal with the dregs of society, the worst of the worst and yet, if they step out and do something that people like you and this racist professor find unacceptable, you use the example to further your agenda.
I see you as a waste of air, sitting on your computer, pretty much since this whole problem started, demeaning the cops and making yourself look like an a$$.
I hope that you will need to cops one of these days and that the officer saves your life. He will do it without a thank you because it is his job. And you, being the idiot that you are, will not appreciate it.
I insult you because you are trash and you have proven that all over this thread.
HornetSting on July 26, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Easy there guy – you’re trying way too hard! You’re going to hurt yourself, tying yourself in convoluted knots of bizarro twisted logic in an attempt to prove Gates is 101% innocent.
The more leaps of non-logic you make, the more pathetic and desperate you look.
rockbend on July 26, 2009 at 2:31 PM
FIFY
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 2:31 PM
If Crowley supports Obama “110%” (even though he didn’t vote for him), as reported at Newsmax on July 23, 2009, then the officer tacitly approves of the Barry-licious atmosphere of race-baiting and grievance-mongering, and I hope he enjoys his decision to support such a slimy hustler.
No amount of beer can make Obama’s policies seem anything but destructive to our nation.
profitsbeard on July 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Actually, there are far more police officers than there are politicians and Harvard scholars.
Does Gates have some power and privilege? Absolutely. Did he unreasonably berate Crowley? Absolutely and in a classless manner.
Do cops still have extraordinary power to mess up people’s lives? No question about it.
Oh, and since Crowley’s initial request/demand that Prof. Gates leave his home has been defended on the grounds of officer safety, while cops have one of the ten most dangerous jobs in America, it’s actually at the bottom of that list. It’s more dangerous, in terms of fatalities, to be a garbageman or a truck driver than a cop. There are many people performing vital roles for society that have a much greater chance of not coming home from work, than police officers.
Cops and cop apologists routinely exaggerate the risks of the job. From the number of cops on disability pensions, it appears that the biggest risk cops face is throwing out their back taking something out of their cruiser’s trunk.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Too much link above for Newsmax.
Once more…
profitsbeard on July 26, 2009 at 2:35 PM
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Turn your cap around,pull up your pants and get a job.
In the mean time,stuff a sock in it and let the grown-ups talk.
katy the mean old lady on July 26, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Actually, as a union member and an active diversity/racial profile trainer, Crowley’s probably bought in, at least as far as career advancement goes, into the prevailing memes of the left. Police departments are pretty political institutions anyways, with lots of office politics, so the fact that many PDs are very politically correct shouldn’t be surprising.
Cops may resent it sometimes, but ultimately they serve the political machinery of their city, county or state. They have a fine sense for changes in the political wind and they want to keep their jobs.
They are not friends of liberty, but rather bureaucrats with guns. Speaking of guns, many PDs officially support draconian gun controls. Though individual LEOs may be firearms enthusiasts, their departments routinely support narrow interpretations of the 2nd Amendment.
If I can say that General Motors has a messed up corporate culture, I can certainly say that cops, who are actual public employees, have a messed up corporate culture.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:42 PM
You’ve never walked a mile in my shoes. You’ve never encountered someone who would want to deliberately harm you, you never walked in the shoes of a survivor.
For a long time I’ve been on a self imposed exile from the HA Family because i felt some of my comments were out of line in a long ago thread. Just remember, one of htese days it won’t be a person like Gates that comes to your aid when yu call for help, it will be a person like me, throwin’ my back out getting your a$$ out of danger.
ChicagoBlues on July 26, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Tell that to the wife and children of Robert Rosas, the US Border Patrol Agent that was gunned down by illegal alien smugglers, YOU IGNORANT F*CK!
HornetSting on July 26, 2009 at 2:43 PM
If we measure occupational danger by number of annual fatalities alone, then this statement might be true, albeit misleading. If we use more realistic indicators, however, like number of encounters with armed suspects or risk of exposure to hazardous conditions, then we might see a more realistic risk assessment.
If you still insist on looking at fatalities only, it can be argued that officer safety tactics (like directing people to move from an unsafe environment to a safer environment) are the reason for fewer officers being killed. This only underscores the need for said tactics.
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 2:51 PM
DONT EVER THINK THAT I DONT TAKE MY OATH OF OFFICE SERIOUSLY. I SWORE TO UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITY I SERVE. EVEN FOR IDITOS LIKE YOU.
Where do you come off talking like that?
Sorry Ed and Allah, I won’t sit by and let this garabage go by without a fight.
ChicagoBlues on July 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Hey, it’s time to stop replying to ronnie, please. The hijacking of threads by this idiot is all he wants, and if you keep responding, you enable him and probably give him the biggest thrill he’s had all week. Please.
oldoldbabs on July 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Where in the police report does it say that? Crowley says that he identified himself by name. He never says that he produced ID or give his badge number.
Asking for a cop’s badge number isn’t a crime.
It offends cops because it means someone is gonna complain to their boss. Most people don’t like it when a customer asks to speak to their supervisor. The customer service rep from your cellular company can only hang up on you when you ask to speak to their boss. A cop can figure out a way to mess up your day much worse.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Sorry HA Family for the above post. I’m out of here.
ChicagoBlues on July 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Agreed. Talk to you all later.
sgt_rich on July 26, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Tell that to the families of airplane pilots, who get you there safely, to fishermen who put food on your table, to garbagemen who keep the rats and smells away, to truck drivers who bring you all the things you use, to steelworkers who build your office. Like I said, there are more dangerous jobs, and important jobs they are, than being a cop.
I’m grateful for Agent Rosas sacrifice and I offer my condolences to his grieving family.
Border patrol agents, though are not cops. They have very limited police powers outside of border, customs and immigration issues. A bit of an ignorant analogy. Understandable that an incipient authoritarian like you would make that mistake.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 3:06 PM
10-4.
HornetSting on July 26, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Wow. That’s quie possibly the single most ignorant thing anyone has ever said on this board.
I had a realtive give me a rationn of crap once saying my husband makes too much considering what he does. It was typical liberal putting down public servant who “works for him” speak. I asked him, “What’s it worth to you to put a plane full of Ppooks down in nowhere Columbia without “official consent” from the local govenrnment and then take off as FARC is shooting holes in the plane – unarmed because our policy does not allow them to be – and then barely make it to a safe airport in Aruba on fire. How much would you want to be paid for that? What’s it worth to you to spend months in some shit hole in Peru as the Shining Path stack bodies outside your compound and the local hotshots who are supposed to protect your unarmed ass are dropping like flies and running away in the dark of night and when you ask the Spooks in charge if it’s time to go as the bodies that are stacked five deep, rot away in the jungle, stnking to high heaven, knowing yours could be next and the Spook says officially, no but unofficially yeah. You retreat to Panama and the compound is taken two days later and you get a month off without pay because you didn’t wait for some bureaucrat in DC to assess and give the GA but you and your men are alive so it’s a small price to pay. How much is THAT life and death indecision worth to you?”
His answer? We shouldn’t be in those places anyway – like he has the diplomatic insight Clinton and Bush lacked and knew all of the ins and outs of the reasons for the missions and could sit in moral judgement of a man who swore to serve this country and its President trusting both to back him up when he does their bidding.
Morons like you could not possibly know what it’s like to be a mother watching her children help gear daddy up with weapons and medical equipment not knowing where he’s going and when or if he will come back. You cannot possibly know that no matter what branch of law enforcement, the scenes are just as harrowing and heart wrenching. These are men and women – flawed but brave human beings – who put themselves in harms way for us. Every day uninjured and above ground is a good day, but it’s mentally, physically and emotionally brutal work and the LEAST you can do is keep your weasly assed thoughts to yourself if you can’t show even the minimum of respect.
BrideOfRove on July 26, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I’ll simply point out that you too have no idea of what experiences I’ve had in my life. Having been a crime victim, I know what it’s like to view the business end of a gun to my head. I’ve been in other situations that were life-threatening and have the scars to prove it.
That’s a favorite cliche of cops. It’s old enough that it used to be “if you don’t like cops, call a hippie”. The fact is that cops don’t prevent crimes (other than by arresting someone who might commit further crimes) or stop many crimes in progress. The arrest people and respond to emergencies that have already happened. Most likely the people are already hurt or dead.
Yeah, sometimes in emergencies, civil disasters, like hurricanes and Sept. 11, they do noble things. I don’t deny it, but tell us, do you, as a law enforcement officer, have any legal obligation to risk your life for other people? Can your superior order you into harms way?
According to the police departments that have litigated the matter (South v Maryland), the answer is no. Cops have no legal obligation to protect people. If you did, I could sue you for slow response time, and I can’t.
Not only can’t I sue you for slow response, I can’t even contract with another police department to provide a higher level of service. If I try to protect myself, the same way police protect themselves, and if my state allows open carry, I can expect to get hassled by police officers.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 3:23 PM
I see that a GOP Cpngressman is introducing a resolution to call upon Ogabe to apologize to Crowley.
Bad idea.
As Winston Churchill once said, “Never interfere with your opponent when he is in the process of destroying himself.”
guntotinglibertarian on July 26, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Did you know that Professor West has black radical and Communist Party ties? At Harvard he is the Director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute (blah blah blah)Du Bois was an ex-American Communist who deserted this country for Ghana. Gates also co-authored the book ‘The Future of the Race’ (Knopf, 1996) with Cornel West. West is a friend of Louis Farrakhan and it was West who helped organize the Million Man March (whioh was better than 900,000 off target.)West is an open admirer of his hero Malcolm X and of Black Liberation theologist James Cone, a mentor of the REV JEREMIAH WRIGHT. Interesting, no?
MaiDee on July 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Pardon typos but – holy crap — rokemronnie is one of the most disgusting human beings I’ve ever seen posting here.
BrideOfRove on July 26, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Yeah, he lost me with that 110% thing. If the guy is too obtuse to change his views when Ogabe bitch-slaps him, I just wash my hands.
guntotinglibertarian on July 26, 2009 at 3:28 PM
You can call me a moron, but I’m not the one who can’t tell the difference between law enforcement and the military.
Usually it’s the liberals who think military matters should be handled by law enforcement (cf. War On Terror). Now I see that many people believe, contrary to the Posse Comitatus Act, that law enforcement should be handled in a military manner.
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Yeah, he lost me at “110%”. If the guy is too obtuse to change his views on Ogabe after being b**ch-slapped on national television, I wash my hands.
guntotinglibertarian on July 26, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Who needs things like legislatures, laws, and elections when we already have an army and the police, right?
rokemronnie on July 26, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Oops I said Professor West-substitute Professor Gates. Sorry ’bout that.
MaiDee on July 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM
My husband is law enforcement and you are still a moron. And you clearly don’t understand law enforcement at any level. Whether it’s on our streets or across the globe by governmental co-operation, the mission is to keep us safe … dangerous, underappreciated, life shortening work.
BrideOfRove on July 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM
I predict that Crowley will come out with some conciliatory statement that will get Ogabe off the hook, in 5, 4, 3, 2…
guntotinglibertarian on July 26, 2009 at 3:37 PM
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