Video: Chris Matthews can’t get enough of the sweet, sweet birth certificate Trutherism

posted at 8:06 pm on July 22, 2009 by Allahpundit

A “Hardball” reprise of yesterday’s topic du jour. Per Blankley’s comments, I’m wondering: Who was the last president whom both sides agreed was completely legitimate? You have to go back to Bush 41, no? Clinton never won a majority of the vote; Bush 43 lost the popular vote in 2000 and then, according to nutroots lore, won in 2004 because Diebold rigged the vote in Ohio or whatever. And now we’ve got The One, whose sinister plot to falsely establish citizenship evidently extends to planting fake birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers in 1961. If Palin wins in 2012, it’ll be fun to see what conspiratorial delegitimizing detail the left comes up with. No doubt Andrew Sullivan is already on the case.

The fact that Matthews has run with this two nights in a row means, I guess, that MSNBC has finally replaced “Rush Limbaugh is the head of the GOP” as its chief line of attack against Republicans.

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right2bright, I’m asking for a link. You posted a quote that said nothing about verifying what Obama posted – which is what you keep saying they did. I want a link where they actually say what you say they did.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 4:37 PM

So we can ask Hawaii officials to “confirm” the hospital where Obama was born and the name of the doctor who delivered him?

Will they confirm that he was born at Kapiolani? Will they confirm that he was born at Queens? Obama has named both hospitals as his birth hospital. What happens if they confirm that neither is his birthplace? Would that be enough reason for you to suspect Obama’s not being honest?

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 4:41 PM

And right2bright, I still want to know how the State of Hawaii came up with a seal that stays round when photographed, regardless of what the paper it’s on does. It’s a really cool idea – like a hologram. I wonder if it would stay round if the paper was crumpled instead of merely bent and placed at an angle.

The disappearing line of print when the document is laid on its side is also intriguing.

I wonder if Janice Okubo could tell us when they developed that technology, ’cause I’ve never seen it before…

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 4:43 PM

right2bright, I’m asking for a link. You posted a quote that said nothing about verifying what Obama posted – which is what you keep saying they did. I want a link where they actually say what you say they did.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 4:37 PM

I gave you the paper, the Hawaiian paper, so do your own research…several months ago I posted all the links, etc.
I would say 1/2 the birthers relinquised their birther title and saw the light…a few kept at it, but most “got it”.

I wonder if it would stay round if the paper was crumpled instead of merely bent and placed at an angle.

The disappearing line of print when the document is laid on its side is also intriguing.

I wonder if Janice Okubo could tell us when they developed that technology, ’cause I’ve never seen it before…

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 4:43 PM

And what background do you have, since you are so into “links” tell me the link where you got this enterprising information?
Let me guess…no noted expert in documentation has ever issued a statement that the COLB is a forgery.

right2bright on July 23, 2009 at 5:04 PM

I think I’ve read almost every article that has been published about this subject, right2bright, and I have never come across anything where they say whether or not Obama’s posted images are genuine or accurate.

You posted a quote, presumably because you thought it said that they did say that. They weren’t commenting on the specific images of Obama’s COLB, unless they were saying everybody gets a COLB that says “Barack Hussein Obama” on it when they request a birth certificate. I asked you about that and you didn’t respond.

Now you won’t give any other sources. I’m not going off on a unicorn search. If you want me to believe that they peeked and told AND that the law requires them to keep the thing sealed, then you’ll have to first show me how both statements are possible and then show me where you got that idea from.

My information about the non-folding seal and the disappearing lines comes straight from the horse’s mouth: the factcheck images themselves. Anybody and their dog can look at them and see whether what I’ve said is accurate. My argument stands or falls on its own. Everybody can believe their own eyes, although a marker for tracing shapes and a camera to experiment with are also helpful because our eyes are vulnerable to optical illusions.

Here are the links:

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_1.jpg

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Oh, and r2b, any expert I might mention who says the thing is a forgery would automatically be excluded from being an expert because they are a “conspiracy theorist”.

It’s a circular logical fallacy. Can’t remember which one. Maybe “poisoning the well”?

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 5:25 PM

DanStark on July 23, 2009 at 1:51 PM

You do realize Snopes.comn is based out of a living room? It is a man and his wife doing internet research from their freaking COUCH!.

Not a source I’d be relying on. Sorry. I’ll take a member of the WH press corps over a couple sitting on their couch who have no expertise in journalism of fact checking.

Mr Purple on July 23, 2009 at 5:33 PM

I wonder why Snopes wasn’t allowed to decide the OJ Simpson case.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 5:34 PM

Here are the links:

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_1.jpg

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 5:21 PM

That’s it? That is your facts?
A picture?
Surely you are joking…give me the real links with the real problems.
Give me the expert link, so we can see how learned he is…I hope better then the person who took that photo.

Here
Here

I have a few more (this is the tip of the iceberg, I have the emails also), this took me all of about 3 minutes to chase these “unicorns”.
Looks like you are too lazy or too afraid to research the truth.
Try this, and then find out where they are from:

CHIYOME LEINAALA FUKINO M.D., DIRECTOR, HAWAI’I DEPT. OF HEALTH
Phone: (808) 586-4410
Fax: (808) 586-4444

For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93

STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO

“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii.”

Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

“Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.”

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

“Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

‘Yes,’ said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. ‘That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.’”

So there are your officials that some say they want to sue…and some say never existed.
I don’t know how much more one needs…except maybe a better camera to photograph those documents properly.

BTW, the earth is not flat, and fire can melt steel…and I really do believe we landed on the moon.

HAHAHA!, I crack myself up…

right2bright on July 23, 2009 at 5:51 PM

Want evidence? Look for YOURSELF & NOTE DIFFERENCES:
.
A) A REAL COPY OF A 1963 HAWAIIAN Cert of Live Birth
.
B) Obama’s Cert of Live Birth 1961 as posted online
.

A – Includes (ALAN’S) (w/ Font Type: Old Style Typewriter):
~File #: ———————–CHECK
~Hospital’s Name: ————–CHECK
~Hospital’s Address: ———–CHECK
~Name(s)Birth Attendent(s): —-CHECK & CHECK
~Baby’s birth weight: ———-CHECK
~Father’s Address: ————-CHECK
~Father’s Occupation: ———-CHECK (U.S. MILITARY)
~Father’s Age: —————–CHECK
~Mother’s Address: ————-CHECK
~Mother’s Occupation: ———-CHECK
~Mother’s Age: —————–CHECK

.

B – (OBAMA’S) Includes (w/ Font Type: Modern Laser Style):
~File #: ————————–NOPE
~Hospital’s Name: —————–NOPE
~Hospital’s Address: ————–NOPE
~Name(s)Birth Attendent(s): ——-NOPE
~Baby’s birth weight: ————-NOPE
~Father’s Address: —————-NOPE
~Father’s Occupation: ————-NOPE
~Father’s Age: ——————–NOPE
~Mother’s Address: —————-NOPE
~Mother’s Occupation: ————-NOPE
~Mother’s Age: ——————–NOPE

.
YOU DECIDE

NightmareOnKStreet on July 23, 2009 at 6:09 PM

Here is an extrensivly detailed examination of Obama’s COLB as published by DailyKOS:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

I find it compelling enough, that asking to see the original vault birth certificate, is not unreasonable.

Rebar on July 23, 2009 at 6:28 PM

I was not able to find the Tribune’s article about this, which is apparently where the question not in quotes comes from. What is meant by “this” in the question, “Does THIS mean Obama was born in Hawaii? ” Was that question directly asked?

In context it seems like “this” is the presence of a birth certificate on file. But having a birth certificate on file does NOT necessarily mean the person is born in Hawaii. A good reporter would have asked if the birth certificate on file specifically says that he was born in Hawaii.

The statement given in e-mail and verbally, according to the Tribune author (and again, I can’t find the article so I don’t know who to e-mail to ask for clarification) is not included in the official release at all.

Where is there an official release where it is said that the birth certificate on file says Obama was born in Hawaii?

I ask this because a Politifact article in which the Hawaii official specifically said they could not say what the online COLB represented was cited by other “reporters” as saying exactly the opposite, that Hawaiian officials confirmed that the posted COLB was authentic. So I need a bit more context to know what the reporter exactly asked (what “this” they were talking about) and what exactly was the response to that specific question.

Because Okubo seems to be saying that Fukino’s statement is saying that Obama was born in Hawaii but it never says that – and in fact, Fukino is elsewhere quoted saying that only Obama could release that information.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Right2bright said:

That’s it? That is your facts?
A picture?
Surely you are joking
<<<<<

ROFL. You expect more from me than what Obama gave the world for documentation. To quote your own words back to you, surely you are joking.

I’m asking you to do the same thing Robert Gibbs asked us to do: look at what Obama actually gave. If you do, you’ll find that the seal in #5 doesn’t bend when the paper it’s on folds, and the line “Barack Hussein Obama” immediately under the bottom fold is missing in photo #1.

It’s called a primary source. The most valuable kind of source there is. Strange that you laugh at it.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM

Correction: It was Onaka, not Fukino, who said that Obama’s birth certificate could not be confirmed without his consent. The article says,

Onaka said he has had many calls asking him to confirm Obama’s birth certificate, but he cannot disclose such information: “Only Obama can consent to that.”

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/07/14/news/story07.html

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 6:57 PM

Actually, what I found might be the original article, if “The Swamp” is “The Tribune” It’s here.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html.

And I note that the very last sentence in the piece claims that Hawaii has said Obama’s posted COLB is authentic. But look at the press release they’re going off of. It doesn’t say that all.

Seems to me like the “reporter” is not very exact in what they say – very similar to the Politifact article being used to say that the posted COLB was authentic when the actual statement was basically “No comment”.

I saw a website where some very exact questions were asked of the Hawaii officials. That’s at
http://michaelpatrickleahy.blogspot.com/2008/11/my-thirteen-unanswered-questions-about.html

That’s an example of the kind of questions real investigative reporters would ask. Unfortunately, it seems that the Hawaii officials won’t respond to specific questions like that, for which they are legally liable.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 7:06 PM

The more I see of what the Hawaii officials have said and done, the more I think they have a big case of CYA on their hands.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 7:08 PM

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 6:44 PM

Last time.
The article explicity states that they asked.
Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?
and the answer was….Yes
I don’t know how much more clearer it can get.
You have no official documentation that Obama was born elsewhere, you have no official expert saying the COLB is a forgery, you have no history of a COLB being a forgery, you know that the COLB has been the official document of birth for over 50 years, with never anyone ever challenging it, every probate court (imagine an attorney trying to win a case, you don’t think they would challenge a COLB) accepts it as fact, only one agency does not in the whole world.
I would love for it to be true, but all the facts are in Obama’s corner, and you have no fact, no expert, no one of any real knowledge or expertise citing otherwise…yet you still believe.
Like telling a truther that 9/11 was terrorists, what do they say? You don’t have any proof it wasn’t an inside job. And they will stick to that no matter how many experts you give them.
So, you won’t change your mind, you can’t…facts don’t meant anything. Just the fact that COLB’s have been bullet proof for millions and millions, that means nothing…you accept a photo of a copy and say the seal is not bent just right…and you don’t think a real expert wouldn’t catch that and make a name for themselves?
You said you have read every article, but I found four (two Tribs and two Star) that you hadn’t read. Both of those papers had the original in their hands…they had a Pulitzer prize in their hands, if they had found what you hoped. Instant fame and fortune, would make Watergate look like a pre-school…and they didn’t take advantage because?
Birthers make conservatives look like fools….

right2bright on July 23, 2009 at 7:15 PM

justincase, try this link for what you’re looking for. It comes from “The Obama File: An Historical Archive” It has an archived list By Date and alphabetical by topic. So far, I’ve found it to be very thorough and well-linked to original sources AS WELL AS A GREAT CACHED TREASURE TROVE which is my FAVORITE, called Scrub-A-Dub which gives you the stuff that accidentally vanished after being flushed down Obama’s memory hole.
.
It is clearly labeled by it’s owner as “an opposition website”. The kind that makes the trolls’ eyes bleed.
.
The site links to HotAir and having only recently found the site, I haven’t researched it myself yet. (It’s probably a well-known HA commenter and I’m just not familiar with the connection).

NightmareOnKStreet on July 23, 2009 at 7:24 PM

The last line of the article said that Hawaii had confirmed Obama’s online COLB as authentic. But nothing from the piece actually supported that conclusion.

That, in conjunction with the official press release saying nothing about Obama being born in Hawaii and Hawaii officials themselves saying they can’t reveal any of this without Obama’s consent, leads me to believe that the author of the article was stretching things a bit.

Just like I’ve seen lots of people stretch the Politifact article so that it says the exact opposite of what the Hawaii officials actually said about the online COLB.

In the meantime, why did Obama post a COLB having a seal that doesn’t bend when the paper it’s on folds and which loses a line of print when it’s photographed on its side?

You steadfastly ignore the primary source, on which you place all your trust.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 7:30 PM

You’ve seen what the press has done with Sarah Palin.

Now tell me again all the love you think Fukino (or anybody else at this point) is going to get if he/she reveals that his/her department has been negligent all along and Obama is actually not even a US citizen.

You think a person would do it for the love, or fame? If you’re thinking of taking up psychology, don’t quit your day job.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 7:37 PM

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 7:37 PM

justincase, I think the trolls & MOBYS are going to be busy for a while with that LINK… LOL!!!

NightmareOnKStreet on July 23, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Right2bright said:

That’s it? That is your facts?
A picture?
Surely you are joking
<<<<<

ROFL. You expect more from me than what Obama gave the world for documentation. To quote your own words back to you, surely you are joking.
.
justincase on July 23, 2009 at 6:47 PM

.
Well, justincase, you just spanked and put right2bright not2bright to bed!

NightmareOnKStreet on July 23, 2009 at 7:58 PM

I am definitly not convinced that ozero is legit. there are too many gaps in his records.

as far as rhe hawaii officcials saying he was born there were they under oath?? unsworn flasehoods to the authirities is a crime… however what about usworn falsehoods by aithorities to the people?

btw I did see an analysys of the image obama posted.I’ve worked enough with photoshop to agree with that article that there is agood possibiklity it is a forgery

bullseye on July 23, 2009 at 8:18 PM

Thanks for the link, Nightmare. I hadn’t realized that Onaka himself was Polarik’s source within the Hawaii records dept, at least partly.

And Sandra Lines didn’t just say that a computer image can’t be used for legal documentation. She also supported Polarik’s findings. So that blows r2b’s claim that no document expert has agreed it was a forgery.

Someone on Orly’s site said they were doing genealogical research and worked with somebody who is registered to do that research and so has access to things others don’t. When he brought up Hawaii the expert told him Hawaii doesn’t allow anyone access to their genealogy records any more and then hung up. Sort of like Onaka ended the conversation with Polarik so suddenly.

Considering the death threats Polarik has received, the story Leo Donofrio tells about being followed even when he was in disguise, and the wiring in Orly’s car being messed with…. I think the Chicago way could explain a lot of why the people who could/should be investigating are not doing so, whether they are Republican or not. Dead men tell no tales. It would fit right in with the way Obama’s administration has dealt with Chrysler investors, Walpin, etc. But who knows. I do think there’s a lot to the story that we don’t know though.

justincase on July 23, 2009 at 8:38 PM

This is from among the links I posted at 7:24PM above:

The obvious question must be asked: If Obama has an original “long form” birth certificate issued on the day of his birth by the state of Hawaii, why would he also have a “Certification of Live Birth”?
It would not be necessary.

Barack Obama was asked if he was eligible to become president under the Article II ‘natural born’ eligibility clause. Obama masked the truth by posting a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth (COLB). His supporters declared him a natural born citizen under the 14th Amendment and the issue was pushed back into the realm of conspiracy theories.

Upon further investigation, the mask of the C.O.L.B. started to be more and more revealing of the original 1961 certificate, made much of by Hawaii’s Governor Lingle and the state’s Department of Health official, Dr. Fukino, as more probably a Dept. of Health document and not a hospital long form. [See my recent post on the Hollister dismissal in which I quoted Endnote 12 of Mario Apuzzo’s Kerchner et al vs. Obama et al case. Apuzzo’s jurisprudence of challenging prima facie evidence is brilliant.

If Obama was trying to promote his Hawaiian native born status, he would have willingly posted a hospital certificate as solid, best evidence. A C.O.L.B. is labeled as only prima facie evidence; the validity of its information open to inspection by a proper Hawaiian court venue.

If the C.O.L.B. referenced document was not a hospital birth certificate, what was it? Under Hawaiian statute, specifically §338-5,[7] it is compulsory for the Dept. of Health to register a newborn child of a Hawaiian resident, even if no documentation of place and time of birth is presented. Only the word of one parent is required by law.

If the hidden 1961 certificate is a §338-5 form, face down like a card in a poker game, the $800,000 Barack Obama ponied up to prevent its public release means Obama is not just bluffing, but covering up perjury and other violations of election law.

.
I HONESTLY EXPECT TO SEE OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE ONE OF THESE DAYS. AS I’VE SAID ALL ALONG, NOTHING CAN CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE HAS ADMITTED HE WAS A DUAL CITIZEN AT BIRTH- GOVERNED UNDER THE BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT OF 1948 BECAUSE HIS FATHER WAS A BRITISH/KENYAN CITIZEN. SORRY FOR caps- not intentional.

NightmareOnKStreet on July 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Thanks for the link, Nightmare. I hadn’t realized that Onaka himself was Polarik’s source within the Hawaii records dept, at least partly.
.
And Sandra Lines didn’t just say that a computer image can’t be used for legal documentation. She also supported Polarik’s findings. So that blows r2b’s claim that no document expert has agreed it was a forgery. justincase on July 23, 2009 at 8:38 PM
.
Your welcome justincase. Very good stuff there, right?- a kind of an OPOSITION RESEARCH “ONE STOP SHOPPING” website (with orig sources linked.
.
‘Suppose R2B & others will “crack that book?” Nah…

NightmareOnKStreet on July 23, 2009 at 9:05 PM

The obvious question must be asked: If Obama has an original “long form” birth certificate issued on the day of his birth by the state of Hawaii, why would he also have a “Certification of Live Birth”?
It would not be necessary.
NightmareOnKStreet on July 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM

Man you birthers are not very well read…let me state again what the official policy of Hawaii is, and has been for the 1920′s.
The COLB is the official, and only document given to people born in the islands.
The “long form” it is not even a real term, but just a description of additional information needed by just one agency in Hawaii.
The COLB fits the requirements of what the Supreme Court demands of a certificate of birth.
Every state agency, every country in the WORLD accepts the COLB as the official and only document needed for any purposes that a birth certificate is needed. Only one group of people in the whole history, since the 1920′s do not accept the COLB, and it is birthers.
Millions of people, and every court and judge and attorney in Hawaii accepts this…and you guys think you know more then every judge and attorney in Hawaii…you are living in a dream world.
Show me the court case, probate or other, that denies the use of the COLB as the official certificate of birth….show me one case, one enterprising attorney in all the history of Hawaii that has argued that successfully.
You can’t because the official, and only documentation given to a person at birth is the COLB. The “long form” which is actually called the Certificate of Live Birth (at the time of Obama, it has changed since then…and I hate when I have to educate the people who I am arguing with), is only used by one state agency, for one specific purpose. It is not needed for anything else.
Now you brilliant people, since you know so much, what agency needs the information on the Certificate of Live Birth?
You guys should just call the ABA over in Hawaii, or the legal aid society and ask these questions.
I posted the numbers once, toll free, and invited anyone to call…no one did, the knew what I posted is correct and accurate.

right2bright on July 24, 2009 at 1:29 PM

right2bright on July 24, 2009 at 1:29 PM

.
WHAT. A. LOAD. OF. CRAP.
You can’t even get into Little League with what Obama had someone put on the internet for him.
.
Next time you get pulled over by a cop and asked to produce your driver’s license, I dare you to whip out your Blackberry and show him the online-picture of your license. Then report back to HotAir on how that went. Heh heh heh.

NightmareOnKStreet on July 24, 2009 at 4:57 PM

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