Why did Obama meet with the CBO?

posted at 3:30 pm on July 21, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Barack Obama disclosed an unusual meeting with the CBO, presumably its director Doug Elmendorf, in his Today Show appearance this morning with Meredith Viera. The relevant clip comes at the three-minute mark, where Viera challenges Obama on the CBO scoring of the health-care reform bills:

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OBAMA: And so, what we’ve got to do, is to bend the cost curve over the long term. And we’ve put forward a whole series of proposals to do that, and the Congressional Budget Office and every health care expert have looked at many of our proposals, and they’ve said, “You know, this has a good chance of working.” Not all of them have been adopted by Congress yet –

VIERA: But — not to beat a dead horse here, but again, the Congressional Budget Office is looking at those bills that are out there, and they’re saying they do not contain costs. Any one of those bills, would you sign them, based on what you see?

OBAMA: Right now, they’re not where they need to be. But I promise you, I just met with the Congressional Budget Office today, so I know exactly what they’re saying. And what they’re saying is, is that the cost savings that are in those bills right now, some of them may actually work, but they’re not enough to offset the additional costs of bringing in 46 million new people to provide.

Why is this important? The CBO exists to keep a check on the executive branch. The “Congressional” part of CBO is no accident. Congress created the CBO as a means to provide oversight over the White House and its use of the budget and its fiscal projections:

Two developments provided the impetus for the enactment of the Budget Act in 1974. One development was an increasing realization by Congress that it had no means to develop an overall budget plan. Prior to 1974, Congress responded to the President’s budget (which contains the President’s many spending and revenue proposals) each year in a piece-meal fashion. There existed no framework for Congress to establish its own spending priorities before work began on specific spending and revenue bills during the spring and summer.

A second, and more immediate, cause for passage of the Budget Act was a dispute in the early 1970′s regarding presidential authority to impound money appropriated by Congress. During this time, President Nixon repeatedly asserted authority (as had many of his predecessors) to withhold from Federal agencies money appropriated by Congress. By 1973, it was believed that President Nixon had impounded up to $15 billion of spending previously approved by Congress. A large portion of these funds were to have gone towards the building of highways and pollution control projects. Many in Congress disputed these actions by the President.The authorization for the pollution control projects, for example, had been enacted by Congress in 1972 with a strong vote in both Houses overriding President Nixon’s veto. Nonetheless, the President impounded much of this spending. These events led Members of Congress to seek a legislative solution.

In 1974 Congress enacted the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act to establish procedures for developing an annual congressional budget plan and achieving a system of impoundment control. The Budget Act also created, for the first time, congressional standing committees devoted solely to the budget. It also created the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) to serve as the “scorekeeper” for Congress. CBO is responsible for producing an annual economic forecast, formulating the baseline, reviewing the President’s annual budget submission, scoring all spending legislation reported from committee and passed by the Congress, and preparing reports in compliance with the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act. CBO’s policy with respect to providing estimates is set out in Appendix B. The Joint Committee on Taxation scores all revenue measures.

In other words, the CBO exists for independence from the executive branch in fiscal matters. If Barack Obama needs clarification on CBO scoring, he should work through Congress to get it, rather than demand face time with the CBO director. Even more appropriately, the President should work through his own Office of Management and Budget (OMB) director for analysis of CBO scoring. In this case, Obama has Elmendorf’s immediate predecessor, Peter Orszag, as his OMB Director, who should be able to figure out a CBO analysis on his own and help Obama understand it and respond to it.

After this came to my attention, I contacted two sources in Washington and asked if presidents routinely conferred with the CBO on budget scoring. Both called this highly unusual and could not recall if or when it had been done in previous administrations. It treads on the entire process of legislative oversight and threatens the independence of the CBO from the administration, which is essential for Congress — if it’s interested in independent analysis.

At best, this looks like a move made out of ignorance of the constitutional checks and balances of the federal government. It appears more like an attempt to browbeat the CBO into more sympathetic scoring of presidential initiatives. Congress should act quickly and forcefully to remind Obama about the boundaries of his executive power.

Update: Elmendorf blogs about this meeting:

I was invited to the White House to meet with the President, his key budget and health advisers, and some outside experts. The President asked me and the outside experts for our views about achieving cost savings in health reform. I presented CBO’s assessment of the challenges of reducing federal health outlays and improving the long-term budget outlook while simultaneously expanding health insurance coverage–just as we had explained these challenges in a letter to Senator Conrad and Senator Gregg last month. I also described CBO’s view of the effects of the health legislation we have seen so far, as I did last Thursday in a hearing at the Senate Budget Committee and a mark-up at the House Ways and Means Committee. In addition, I discussed various policy options that could produce budgetary savings in the long run, drawing on CBO’s Budget Options for Health Care released in December, our letter to Senators Conrad and Gregg last month, and my comments last Thursday. Other participants in the meeting expressed their own views on these various topics.

But the CBO doesn’t create policy. It’s supposed to be a scorekeeper, and allow Congress to create policy. This feels like an attempt to either intimidate or co-opt the CBO, neither of which would be a good thing. The entire meeting seems highly inappropriate.

Update II: This seems mighty familiar to Brian Faughnan, who recalls Senator Max Baucus demanding that the CBO stop playing independent arbiter and start throwing the numbers to support a government takeover of the health-care industry.

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Comment pages: 1 2

“I won.”

Mr. D on July 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM

Accidental transparency!

redwhiteblue on July 21, 2009 at 3:34 PM

Obama is just like every other Communist leader, he wants the power of Order By Decree.

OhEssYouCowboys on July 21, 2009 at 3:34 PM

Perhaps Obama is wanting to bend the curve a bit more and “bend” a few bones in the CBO as well?

“Nice office ya’ll have here. Wouldn’t want anything to happen to it.”

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Hey Doug, you’ve got a nice family. It would be a shame if anything happened to them.

Now about the health care costs…

Daggett on July 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Wow, Barry’s has some big bags under his eyes. Not sleeping well?

portlandon on July 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Great minds.

Daggett on July 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

This guy contues to demonstrate either his total executive ignorance and incompetence or his overt desire to eliminate the checks and balances system. Either way, he’s a loser for us.

HomeoftheBrave on July 21, 2009 at 3:36 PM

I am optimistic that at the end of the day…

Biggest failure ever!

HoustonRight on July 21, 2009 at 3:37 PM

In addition, I discussed various policy options that could produce budgetary savings in the long run, drawing on CBO’s Budget Options for Health Care released in December, our letter to Senators Conrad and Gregg last month, and my comments last Thursday.

In otherwords, he gave Obama the cheat codes.

Skywise on July 21, 2009 at 3:37 PM

There are no limits to what this man feels entitled to control. I can’t wait until I see the moving van in the White House driveway.

msmveritas on July 21, 2009 at 3:37 PM

“I won.”

Mr. D on July 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM

Curses, foiled again!

BobMbx on July 21, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Tyrants answer to no one.

mankai on July 21, 2009 at 3:37 PM

“This feels like an attempt to either intimidate or co-opt the CBO, neither of which would be a good thing.”

Nice CBO you’ve got there…………….

………….. be a shame if anything happened to it.

Seven Percent Solution on July 21, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Aren’t there several CEO’s in jail for getting people in oversight positions to ‘join the team’ with the right numbers?

IlikedAUH2O on July 21, 2009 at 3:38 PM

You guys keep fighting this bastard every step of the way for us. He and the left has got to be defeated.

hawkdriver on July 21, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Obomber will appoint a “CBO Czar” who will work out of the White House to oversee the overseers so that they don’t oversee what King Hussein of Chicago deems not needing oversight.

Capisce?

J.J. Sefton on July 21, 2009 at 3:39 PM

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Great minds………

Seven Percent Solution on July 21, 2009 at 3:39 PM

Obama is just like every other Communist leader, he wants the power of Order By Decree.

OhEssYouCowboys on July 21, 2009 at 3:34 PM

Actually he’s more like an African chief: he divides up the plunder and “aid” for distribution among his family clan/supporters. Institutions, checks and balances etc are concepts designed by old dead white men.

Fortunata on July 21, 2009 at 3:39 PM

I’ve been wondering for months now when Barry and Pelosi and Reid would start beating the CBO about the head and shoulders.

Next comes those pesky people in the Labor Department who put out the unemployment numbers.

guntotinglibertarian on July 21, 2009 at 3:39 PM

Obama made him an offer he couldn’t refuse

cmsinaz on July 21, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Up until now, Obama merely scared me.

He is now becoming positively frightening.

Dave R. on July 21, 2009 at 3:41 PM

hawkdriver on July 21, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Good to see you. Thanks for keeping is safe, buddy. You and the rest of our fighting men and women continue to be in our prayers. We’ll continue to speak out against the insanity.

kingsjester on July 21, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Classic Obama in two ways:

First, summon those who publicly disagree with you and pressure them to see things your way.

Second, “Merideth, trust me, I’ve met with the CBO and those words he said don’t mean what you think they mean. You silly woman. No, no, no. What he meant was of course there are savings, but we need to do more. So, as you can see, we will save a lot of money with my plan, and we need to act now.”

DailyDanet on July 21, 2009 at 3:41 PM

is=us
oops

kingsjester on July 21, 2009 at 3:41 PM

So Obama can now walk around spouting the words of the CBO all the while, planning on signing an ObamaCare bill that is in total defiance of the CBO’s cost projections.

myrenovations on July 21, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I think the Walpin suit is going to turn into a class action suit given the number of cases that are going to turn up.

WashJeff on July 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM

“I just met with the Congressional Budget Office today, so I know exactly what they’re they know exactly what I’m saying.”

ROCnPhilly on July 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM

They are going to turn the CBO into what the CIA has become, Truth is not important any longer. Advancing the Liberal agenda is, and to do that when you go public it must be to tote the Democrat Political line.

Ends Justifies the Means

jp on July 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM

People have asked whether it was exciting to meet the President and be in the Oval Office: Yes, and my kids will be jealous when they get back from summer camp and hear about it. Of course, the setting of the conversation and the nature of the participants do not affect CBO’s analysis of health reform legislation.

Perish the thought…

Terry_Dyne on July 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM

Veiled intimidation no doubt

CWforFreedom on July 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM

I always take the umpire out for a few beers before the game so he can tell me how loose he’ll call strikes. worked great so far.

gatorboy on July 21, 2009 at 3:43 PM

Obama is still peddling the myth about the family going into bankruptcy BECAUSE of health bills the family thought their plan would cover. This is a myth peddled over and over without any challenge from the interviewer.

It’s just a talking point. It doesn’t represent any trend relative to health care costs at all.

gabriel sutherland on July 21, 2009 at 3:43 PM

Whatever you do, don’t drink the koolaid….

This is becoming a complete joke. Did NBC punk us and this is all an SNL skit?

HornetSting on July 21, 2009 at 3:43 PM

Action Alert: Maryland and Virgina. Please lock you horse stables at night. Democrat operatives may be roaming the countryside looking for horses to behead for intimidation purposes.

WashJeff on July 21, 2009 at 3:44 PM

At best, this looks like a move made out of ignorance of the constitutional checks and balances of the federal government

Let us remember, he was teaching constitutional law prior to his legislative career. Exit question: What was he teaching his captive audience?

larvcom on July 21, 2009 at 3:44 PM

This whole administration seems highly inappropriate.

Bob's Kid on July 21, 2009 at 3:45 PM

To remind him that if they dare to tell the American people the truth that all hell will be paid and that they will lose their jobs. Thats his style and he has a hsitory of it. All aided and abetted by the sorry ass MSM.

Change and Hope that every dumb ass in America can believe in!

bluegrass on July 21, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Huh? MSNBC is asking tough questions?

Also, (on the hostage soldier portion) Kos had a clip of a Fox News gueat saying that it would save us trouble if the Taliban killed the guy. Naturally, the left faithful are just nuts about that remark. Less important to them is the fact that military guy who made the remark predicated it on the soldier going AWOL or deserting. Lefties do not understand discipline. Their worst brush with letting people down in a vital situation is to the smoke the whole lid before the party.

IlikedAUH2O on July 21, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Veiled intimidation no doubt

CWforFreedom on July 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM

A damn diaphanous veil at that…

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:45 PM

If Barack Obama needs clarification on CBO scoring, he should work through Congress to get it, rather than demand face time with the CBO director.

No.

ernesto on July 21, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Racists

Dingbat63 on July 21, 2009 at 3:46 PM

I’m sure this would be slipped through the media during a republican presidency.

I feel like I live in a banana republic a little more every day.

jukin on July 21, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Let us remember, he was teaching constitutional law prior to his legislative career. Exit question: What was he teaching his captive audience?

larvcom on July 21, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Which constitution? Not the one promoted by Madison.

WashJeff on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

God forgive me, but I really cannot stand the sound of his voice.

It is going to be a llooonngg four years.

Daddy-O on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Why did Obama meet with the CBO?

The Chicago Way —- was explained

jake-the-goose on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Just yesterday I was wondering how the CBO managed to stay non-partisan, thinking that it would be pretty easy for people with an agenda to infiltrate it. And here we are, with The President trying to curry favor to get his takeover passed.

BadgerHawk on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Told ya’ so. Obama’s gonna get his nationalized health care — and ain’t no stinkin’ non-partisan budget office gonna get in his way.

Rational Thought on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Let us remember, he was teaching constitutional law prior to his legislative career. Exit question: What was he teaching his captive audience?

larvcom on July 21, 2009 at 3:44 PM

I can teach Con Law in one sentence. Imagine, a 4 credit hour course in law school, in 1 sentence.

The Constitution says what the politics of the majority of the Court say it says.

4 credit hours, just like that.

OhEssYouCowboys on July 21, 2009 at 3:48 PM

It is going to be a llooonngg four years.

Daddy-O on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

1278 days to go.`

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:48 PM

“It’s not about me…”- Oloco

The hell it’s not.

CynicalOptimist on July 21, 2009 at 3:49 PM

Whatever you do, don’t drink the koolaid….

This is becoming a complete joke. Did NBC punk us and this is all an SNL skit?

HornetSting on July 21, 2009 at 3:43 PM

I know. I keep waiting for Ashton Kutcher to come out from behind the [iron] curtain and start laughing.

As it is, though,he’s still wayyyy behind the veil.

bluelightbrigade on July 21, 2009 at 3:49 PM

Seriously, has there been one day that this man hasn’t been on television or conducting chats online. Who is his booking agent? He is turning out to be the hardest working man in show business.

Friggin’ loser. Go read a bill or a history book. We would be better served.

sherry on July 21, 2009 at 3:49 PM

Rohm held a gun to Elmendorfs head and Obama told him either his signature for approval will be on the contract, or his brains will be.

Tazz 55 on July 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Intimidation? Sort of reminds me of the inspector general who was ran out of town on a rail and accused of being “confused.”

At what point – I mean how egregious must it get – before Obama is slapped down? What if things are criminal? Would something have to rise to the level of Watergate or Lewinsky? No one in THIS congress will ever call for a special prosecutor or investigator unless American voters rise up and throw a fit. We need to carry signs that say “I vote and I’m mad.” 2010 is going to be SOOO interesting.

Oink on July 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Oppression We Can Believe In?

Yes.We.Can.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Let us remember, he was teaching constitutional law prior to his legislative career. Exit question: What was he teaching his captive audience?

larvcom on July 21, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Which constitution? Not the one promoted by Madison.

WashJeff on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

+1

bluelightbrigade on July 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Meredith Viera !

You go girl!

patrick neid on July 21, 2009 at 3:51 PM

It is going to be a llooonngg four years.

Daddy-O on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Are we there Yet? It sure feels like it…plus some…

CynicalOptimist on July 21, 2009 at 3:51 PM

God forgive me, but I really cannot stand the sound of his voice.

I can’t either. But I thought it was a gift from God to be able to know that every word was a lie.

JiangxiDad on July 21, 2009 at 3:51 PM

OBAMA: And so, what we’ve got to do, is to bend the cost curve over the long term. And we’ve put forward a whole series of proposals to do that,

” I’ll glady pay you on Tuesday, for ahamburger today.”

Archimedes on July 21, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Maybe he legitimately wanted to know the snicker costs of snicker snicker his government take . . haahahahahahahah

Sorry, couldn’t finish the thought . . . laughing too hard. And I’m so tired of the 40 some million trope. Nobody in the MSM ever challenges that either. It’s only 8-10 million if you take away illegal aliens (which are no Americans responsiblity to insure) and people only temporarily without insurance because they are between jobs or eligibility.

PastorJon on July 21, 2009 at 3:52 PM

CBO Staff:”What happened to your face?”

CBO Chief:”I uhh. Fell down the stairs.”

COB Staff:”Repeatedly?”

portlandon on July 21, 2009 at 3:52 PM

Probably told Elmendorf there’s this air base out in Alaska with his name on it looking for a new procurement specialist.

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:52 PM

What is up with his hair? Job gettin’ to ya, Barry? Pretty soon he will look like this.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 21, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Just showing CBO the Chicago way.

Fletch54 on July 21, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Mister Elmendorf, don’t accept any rides from Rahmbo.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 21, 2009 at 3:54 PM

It is going to be a llooonngg four years.

Daddy-O on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

something tells me differently.

Ghoul aid on July 21, 2009 at 3:54 PM

Presidenting is hard work, huh, Barry?

rbj on July 21, 2009 at 3:54 PM

We need to carry signs that say “I vote and I’m mad.”
Oink on July 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM

They’ll think you’re an Obama supporter. Perhaps: “I vote and I’m angry

ROCnPhilly on July 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Something tells me that we won’t be hearing from the CBO Director anymore. The muzzle has been installed.

orlandocajun on July 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM

What is up with his hair? Job gettin’ to ya, Barry?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac

Going for the Nelson Mandela “Sno-fro” look.

Terry_Dyne on July 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Obama:

“Elmendorf, you wanna see your kids again?”

drjohn on July 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM

This shouldn’t surprise anybody. Most corrupt leader and senate since Rome.

Redglen on July 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM

This shouldn’t surprise anybody. Most corrupt leader and senate since Rome.

Redglen on July 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Sorta like this?

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Probably told Elmendorf there’s this air base out in Alaska with his name on it looking for a new procurement specialist.

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:52 PM

The Capt. Stillman (Stripes) treatment.

WashJeff on July 21, 2009 at 3:57 PM

What is up with his hair? Job gettin’ to ya, Barry? Pretty soon he will look like this.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 21, 2009 at 3:53 PM

He’ll never look that good….

CynicalOptimist on July 21, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Puuhlease…did anyone NOT think Obama and Rahm wouldn’t try and threaten/intimidate/coerce the CBO at this point?

Wyznowski on July 21, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Sorta like this?

coldwarrior on July 21, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Looks like “mom robes.”

WashJeff on July 21, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Playing the dozens.

A movie, which I rented from Netflix due to AP’s recommendation and thought it was good. Even though the outcome was inevitable.

lorien1973 on July 21, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Wow, Barry’s has some big bags under his eyes. Not sleeping well?

portlandon on July 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Maybe Michelle is at the height of her mating season or something.

SouthernGent on July 21, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Maybe Michelle is at the height of her mating season or something.

SouthernGent on July 21, 2009 at 4:02 PM

that was disturbing.

Ghoul aid on July 21, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Mister Elmendorf, don’t accept any rides from Rahmbo.

“Elmendorf, you wanna see your kids again?”

Probably told Elmendorf there’s this air base out in Alaska with his name on it looking for a new procurement specialist.

The main gov’t witness in the “passportgate” case where the details of Obama’s passport application and data were gone through has been murdered.

City police said they do not know whether his death was a direct result of his cooperation with federal investigators.

“We don’t have any information right now that connects his murder to that case,” Cmdr. Anzallo said.

Coincidence? You decide. Heard about it in the SRM??

JiangxiDad on July 21, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Coincidence? You decide. Heard about it in the SRM??

JiangxiDad on July 21, 2009 at 4:04 PM

Holy cow!

Key West Reader on July 21, 2009 at 4:06 PM

God forgive me, but I really cannot stand the sound of his voice.

It is going to be a llooonngg four years.

Daddy-O on July 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Rush has taken to speeding up Obama’s voice when he plays sound bites of him. It makes him sound a bit like a cartoon rat, but at least the cadence is more like a human being. Makes it much more tolerable to hear the lies at 2X speed.

Christian Conservative on July 21, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Ok so when Ogabe gets his military uniform will he come out as a Colonel or go straight to General? Maybe Corporal?

Caper29 on July 21, 2009 at 4:07 PM

gatorboy on July 21, 2009 at 2:50 PM

but Senators and Congressmen don’t have peopled killed Michael.

who’s being naive now Kate?

HoustonRight on July 21, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Hm, does the head of the CBO own an expensive horse perchance?

CP on July 21, 2009 at 4:08 PM

From Elmendorf’s comments, it seems he wasn’t browbeat. But he doesn’t really talk about Obama’s side of the conversation. Did the Big O really come in and just say “tell me what would work?”

I’m glad that at least the CBO seems to have a realistic outlook on the effects of passing this healtchare legislation.

hawksruleva on July 21, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Power.

Jim Treacher on July 21, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Impeach ’0′ now.

TinMan13 on July 21, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Forget the gun, grab the cannoli.

Thunderstorm129 on July 21, 2009 at 4:11 PM

The CBO is mucking up too many of Obama’s plans. There is no doubt in my mind – he’s making plans to subjugate them.

So indeed – no doubt they’ll soon be agreeing with Obama on anything he says.

HondaV65 on July 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Holy cow!

Key West Reader on July 21, 2009 at 4:06 PM

I think living somewhere where being armed is considered normal is necessary. That’s why I intend to move. The founding fathers agreed with me, so I’m in good company.

JiangxiDad on July 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM

wildly inappropriate – YES.

A big deal – NO.

why? – because all BO has to do is call Pelosi and ask for “permission” to see the CBO Director. Why bother asking since BO owns the House and Senate leadership.

rock the casbah on July 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Get your Senators to support the Second Amendment
Tell them to vote yes on the “Thune Concealed Carry Reciprocity Amendment”

On July 22, 2009, the United States Senate will consider a amendment to the hate crimes legislation by Senator John Thune.

The “Thune Concealed Carry Reciprocity Amendment” is very simple. It allows individuals with a concealed carry gun permit in their home state to maintain the privilege of concealed carry in any other state that also has concealed carry laws.

The hate crimes legislation is probably going to pass.

JiangxiDad on July 21, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Listen…let’s just say that number there had two less zeros. What would that be worth to you, to drop those zeros? Your peace of mind? How about a nice education for your kids? Come on, they’re just zeros.

Thunderstorm129 on July 21, 2009 at 4:16 PM

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