Video: Chris Matthews takes on the Birthers. What could go wrong?

posted at 7:31 pm on July 21, 2009 by Allahpundit

Slowly but surely, this meme is going mainstream: Lou Dobbs picked it up (credulously) in his radio show this morning, Rick Sanchez goofed on it this afternoon, even Rush is starting to talk about it — foolishly, really, given how it distracts from the momentum conservatives are building against ObamaCare. Lost in all the blather is the shining fact that the natural-born requirement is probably the single dumbest operative provision in the Constitution and in a sane world would have been abolished decades ago in favor of some sort of residency requirement. Something to shoot for after The One leaves office, perhaps? Shouldn’t be a partisan issue: Once it’s repealed, we can finally run the conservative we all want for president.

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AprilOrit on July 22, 2009 at 3:43 AM

Fascinating.

Jim Treacher on July 22, 2009 at 4:01 AM

Whoops meant to write:

Michelle was an expert on the AP photo forgeries a few years back – why – if this birth certificate is a forgery – why hasn’t she and the other prominent Right bloggers covered it?

AprilOrit on July 22, 2009 at 3:22 AM

She’s snuzzin one off…or she’s eating christ’s flesh…or his blood…ooooh i had the rarest rib eye…bloody hell….

jollybird on July 22, 2009 at 4:06 AM

There is a verified birth announcement from the Hawaiian newspaper.

But these people won’t accept that, remember this is the fire melts steel crowd.

AprilOrit on July 21, 2009 at 11:30 PM

You are an ABSOLUTE LIAR.

nelsonknows on July 22, 2009 at 4:10 AM

Allahpundit now thinks he is more intelligent than James Madison, George Mason, Alexander Hamilton and the other 52 delegates to the Constitutional Convention.
Who is the so-called “Conservative” Allahpundit? Ahnold Schwartzenkennedy?

nelsonknows on July 22, 2009 at 4:15 AM

You know/ JohnInCA on July 22, 2009 /at 1:25 AM

Obama made the right decision about Iran as far as I am concerned.

I am not a Neo-Con – so we probably do not agree on any of this.

You sound like the type who thinks we should be fighting every country this side of hell.

I don’t – I believe in Diplomacy – like Reagan.

AprilOrit on July 22, 2009 at 3:46 AM

YOU REALLY ARE A FU%K HEAD….

KNow what…

jollybird on July 22, 2009 at 4:29 AM

I apologize…really, i just want the truth,if not by law………………………………………………………………

jollybird on July 22, 2009 at 4:39 AM

I used to think birthers were all wet,but if Matthews denies it,it must be true.
Palin/Hannen 2016–Why not?

DDT on July 22, 2009 at 4:51 AM

Arnold in California would happily agree with changing the rules.
+++++++++++++

Regarding Obama and the birth certificate or lack there of.
Check out this line of thinking:

“HOW COULD STANLEY ANN DUNHAM HAVE DELIVERED BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA JR. IN AUGUST OF 1961 IN HONOLULU, WHEN OFFICIAL UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON RECORDS SHOW HER 2680 MILES AWAY IN SEATTLE ATTENDING CLASSES THAT SAME MONTH?”
(sorry for the all caps, just copied headline…)

albill on July 22, 2009 at 6:04 AM

But these people won’t accept that, remember this is the fire melts steel crowd.

AprilOrit on July 21, 2009 at 11:30 PM

Fire doesn’t melt steel? What does? Magic?

I’m so glad you’re back. We need comic relief sometimes.

Squiggy on July 22, 2009 at 6:39 AM

L

et’s tell the truth here. When someone says “I want my country back”, what they are saying is their America would never elect a black President.

This whole birther thing is about race, nothing more, nothing less.

AprilOrit on July 22, 2009 at 12:51 AM

No, dear, I want my country back from a man who is tossing it into a socialist swamp. I don’t car about anyone’s color, just his/her integrity and moral compass. You have it all wrong…

chai on July 22, 2009 at 7:00 AM

You know…I suppose it’s possible that Joe Scarborough and Morning Joe could have screwed up this story even more…but I’m not really sure how.

No…I don’t watch this show normally. I was channel surfing.

Oh Joe Joe Joe.

First off, we’re not obsessed with this issue to the exclusion of all else. We’re concerned that we feel that the law is being side stepped and ignored but it’s not the only thing we care about. We do care about the economy and health care and the electricity tax. We do care about the state of our nation. These are not mutually exclusive issues. I contact my congressman and senators and others about those issues as they are front and center in my mind. The elegibility issue, while I feel there’s something going on, is not to the level where there’s hard core proof one way or the other.

Second…you showed your proof with the short form which has none of the pertinent legal details. The whole point of it is that its legitimacy is in question. Using what is considered questionable material as evidence doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Third. The gentleman from WaPo brought up the McCain/Palin rallies and how people said of Obama to “string him up”. That is a rumor that has been completely debunked and yet that’s the level of mental instability to which you equate those with questions about Obama’s elegibility. How dare you say that you need to show these kinds of things as they come up so that people can be aware of it (meaning to showcase how dangerously crazy these people are).

Fourth. The lady who talked about her family’s military and background who said she wanted her country back was referring to the fact that we used to be a country of laws. Don’t try to make it into something other than that.

Fifth. Joe…You said these are the fringe and yet to her comment that she wants her country back, you exclaim that you want your party back. Sorry Joe…but that’s the problem. The John McCain wishy washy members of the party are the ones making the calls and thus…there’s no real leadership. No bold colors, only pale pastels. If you took a few seconds to learn what people you and others derisively refer to as “birthers” are saying, at the core, they’re saying they’re concerned that the founding document of our country is being ignored because we have a popular candidate now president. Well, used to be popular at any rate.

Sixth. Barnacle: Don’t you ever freakin’ compare these folks with dayroom asylum inmates ever again. It’s not funny, you no talent hack.

I have no conclusions thus far on this issue…only a series of questions. I should have the right to ask them without being mocked and to consider and counter the responses of those who disagree with me without being isolated and labeled as a freak.

I think it’s dangerous to take everything at face value. I listened to the truthers when they started talking about 9/11 but the evidence did not bear the fruit they said and I dismissed it. I listened to those who said that the moon landing was a political farce but again…the evidence was not what was claimed and the counter arguments were the ones with any level of credulity.

I actually did not have an open mind regarding this issue for quite a while until a series of events led me to consider that perhaps I had jumped the gun. For me at least, there are enough unanswered questions and glaring inaccuracies that I’m willing to acknowledge that there’s some smoke there and possibly a fire of some kind. I don’t know what…but my gut is saying that he’s hiding something.

But please Joe. I am an honest American citizen. I’m a Reagan conservative. I do what I can to defeat liberal legislation and I’m an entrepreneur who’s doing what I can to support my retired parents who, by the way, live with me.

So please do not diminish me or isolate me as a nut case. I don’t appreciate it and I certainly don’t deserve it.

powerpro on July 22, 2009 at 7:10 AM

I think Obama is a citizen. I really do. I can understand why people question it however. He could have just made the birth certificate public right off the bat and killed the whole issue.

In fact I was swayed by the the newspaper references to his birth in Hawaii that were put in the paper in 1961. The only reason I could think of that his family would make up a lie like that would be to protect him from his father gaining custody. But from everything I have heard there was not much chance of Obama’s African family caring about him one way or the other…until he was POTUS anyway.

Terrye on July 22, 2009 at 7:15 AM

Sorry Chris, that is not a birth certificate.

TheSitRep on July 22, 2009 at 7:16 AM

April:

That is nonsense. The only thing I like about Obama is that he is black. I think it is a good thing that a black man could win a national election. However, I do not like or trust this black man. And if people like you reduce the honest and sincere dissent with racism, you will alienate more people from the Democratic party. And not all of them will be white people either.

Terrye on July 22, 2009 at 7:18 AM

Jim Treacher on July 22, 2009 at 4:01 AM

You need to be my friend on Twitter (“follow” just seems so stalkerish”) There, I said it.

I love your updates.

Mommypundit on July 22, 2009 at 7:48 AM

Mommypundit on July 22, 2009 at 7:48 AM

I’d like to follow or friend any conservative on Twitter. My id is marybethhouse

Which, btw, is also my name. ;)

powerpro on July 22, 2009 at 7:51 AM

(”follow” just seems so stalkerish)

Struggling.

Mommypundit on July 22, 2009 at 7:51 AM

powerpro on July 22, 2009 at 7:51 AM

I’m “infobee” But, beware…that picture needs to be changed…not the most attractive (although that isn’t a major goal of mine.) I’m going to stop talking now…

:o)

Mommypundit on July 22, 2009 at 8:29 AM

I’m stalking you now!! Bwahaha

powerpro on July 22, 2009 at 8:31 AM

haha I see that. Cool that you are a web designer/graphic artist. Husband is a industrial designer (day job) and we have a VERY small web/print design company.

Mommypundit on July 22, 2009 at 8:41 AM

I disagree. I do feel that being the leader of a nation should require you to be tied to that nation alone. You do not want to have split loyalties.

For argument’s sake, assume Arnold was President(scary). Now let’s say something happens that causes us to declare war on Austria. Sure Arnold loves the US, but would he be able to still make those tough decisions like blowing up the town he grew up in? This is of course a highly unlikely situation, but when you factor in trades, treaties, aide, etc. There may definitely be some preferential treatment to a leader’s birthplace.

jeffn21 on July 22, 2009 at 8:48 AM

…the natural-born requirement is probably the single dumbest operative provision in the Constitution and in a sane world would have been abolished decades ago in favor of some sort of residency requirement.

Hmmm… use of a superlative implies more than one in the category. What else in the Constitution is “dumb,” in your estimation, AP?

I kinda like having an American as president. Remember what that was like? One that didn’t spend millions of dollars trying to keep his birth records and college transcripts secret?

Akzed on July 22, 2009 at 8:53 AM

powerpro on July 22, 2009 at 7:10 AM

You missed Joe the Smo’s biggest point: A notice of birth was in the paper. Most of what he said rested on this point as proof of the assertion that the Messiah is a citizen. A notice which anyone, at any time, from anyplace could hace called in to have printed in that day’s paper. Yes indeed, Joe is entertaining at times, but any credibility he might have as a RINO (a moderate Republican with no opinions on anything beyond what he’s told to say) was lost.

Friendly21 on July 22, 2009 at 9:02 AM

Matthews doesn’t have the intellectual fire power to take on anyone. Not even the birthers.

MarkTheGreat on July 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

Here is something to consider. How did he get a U.S passport ?
When I got a passport I had to show a birth certificate, maybe there is more to it than this I don’t know
Secondly the people at Worldnetdaily are not racist or loons so I have to think if they keep pushing it they must think they have some sort of case.
Thirdly, lets say he does not have a valid birth certificate, what can be done about it ? The time for checking this is before the election.
Nobody would be for redoing the election or overturning an election. Can’t happen

kangjie on July 22, 2009 at 9:24 AM

Chrissy is such a jackass.

Torch on July 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM

One other thing. why oh why to these repubs keep going on hardball.

kangjie on July 22, 2009 at 9:37 AM

Why does Chris Matthews look like John Murtha?

ExpressoBold on July 22, 2009 at 9:39 AM

Thank you, Powerpro. Good points; I agree.

The fact is Obama could have ended this issue 2 years ago–by releasing his birth certificate. He has refused to do so; that fuels the debate over his legitimacy to be the President.

Why doesn’t he just release his birth certificate?!

Joe Scarborough, Mika, and Barnacle are like the great majority of media celebrities nowadays: They don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground. Apparently, these people NEVER read the news, because I’m more up-to-date on current events than they are. But, of course, “informed opinion” these days is nothing more than corporate-directed propaganda directed towards maintaining the status quo, keeping the power elite in power.

Scarborough and Mika also dismissed those who question the official 9/11 narrative as “conspiracy theorists” and “truthers.”

I wonder how it has escaped their notice that the 9/11 Commissioners themselves are on the record asserting that their conclusions were based on lies.

FBI agent Colleen Rowley has publicly stated that she supports a new 9/11 Investigation; she doesn’t trust the previous one. An entire list of former and current military and intelligence officials are on record as supporting a new 9/11 Investigation–but they are always absent from the discussion when “conspiracy theorists” are dismissed as “truthers.”

I’m not sure what to think about either Obama’s birthplace/certificate, or the “official” narrative about what happened on 9/11. But I know this:

It’s totalitarianism when you can’t question official policy…

mountainaires on July 22, 2009 at 9:59 AM

AprilOrit at 2:09

I wouldn’t care if he was the tooth fairy, as long as what he said was factual. Have you checked out the accuracy of his claims?

See, April, there are some people who don’t care to play your 5th-grade “I’m cool, you’re not” game. Some of us don’t care about name-calling and “Oh, I’d never look as uncool as you.”

Some people actually process FACTS. No, hear that again. FACTS. Not specualation like, “Well, why won’t this person or that person do this or that?” or “I was born so Obama must be born” and “Anybody who uses a brain cell is a racist.”

The green pixels are missing. That’s an observation. How do you explain it?

The border has a much lower level of clarity than the rest of the document. How do you explain it?

The fold line is missing. How do you explain it?

The border is from 2008 and the two stamps are from 2007. How do you explain it?

If you don’t trust what he says he observes, then do a little checking on your own:

Why does the circle on the top fold of Factcheck #5 bend with the fold but the validating “seal” doesn’t?

Why does Factcheck #1 not have “Barack Hussein Obama” immediately under the fold?

Those are observed FACTS. I haven’t read this entire thread but I have read the other entire thread about this and I have seen nobody who has even really addressed the observable facts. It’s all about whether this has been proven to an acceptable degree or how stupid anybody makes the conservatives look if they expect legal-quality documentation for a legal issue.

To me, this is the most unbelievable part of the whole thing: nobody is even discussing the observable facts. Robert Gibbs tells us all to go look at the “birth certificate”. I agree with him. Let’s all go look at it, and then ask why this dolt posted a forged document if he had a real one.

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Lost in all the blather is the shining fact that the natural-born requirement is probably the single dumbest operative provision in the Constitution and in a sane world would have been abolished decades ago in favor of some sort of residency requirement.

Are you nuts?

Dr Evil on July 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Allahpundit, I can’t believe you. Suggesting that our constitution is flawed and that we might as well ignore it? You are spineless. The natural-born clause is very important and there for a reason. If we choose to ignore that clause in the constitution, then we can also ignore the others, right? If it’s all just matter of opinion. The truth is, Obama could have laid all this to rest by presenting is acutal birth certificate. If it’s not that big of a deal, but he didn’t, which is very fishy. These people are concerned citizens, and I can’t blame them. Until someone proves them wrong, people like you shouldn’t be so condescending.

golfballs03 on July 22, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Lost in all the blather is the shining fact that the natural-born requirement is probably the single dumbest operative provision in the Constitution and in a sane world would have been abolished decades ago in favor of some sort of residency requirement.

Are you nuts?

Dr Evil on July 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Are You Drinking?

Dr Evil on July 22, 2009 at 10:40 AM

From the point of view of a questioned document examiner (QDE),

missing from the conversation with Matthews are two questions:
1. Where did you get the questioned birth certificate you are holding up to the camera?
2. Which qualified document examiner used what processes to conduct the examination of the questioned birth certificate to determine its authenticity?

I am reminded of Matthews’ on-air statement that he will do whatever he can to make the president successful.

AmericanDad on July 22, 2009 at 10:56 AM

I can’t stand to watch these idiots; just makes my blood boil. AmericanDad, did he try to say that he has the actual, legal, with-seal document in his hand? Not just a photocopy, computer image, or for some other reason non-legal document?

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Let’s tell the truth here. When someone says “I want my country back”, what they are saying is their America would never elect a black President.

This whole birther thing is about race, nothing more, nothing less.

AprilOrit on July 22, 2009 at 12:51 AM

I think you may be right.

beekiller on July 22, 2009 at 1:24 AM

Hey, Good Lt., are you still here? You seemed to be the one caring so much about not laying with stray dogs. Here these two nutjobs making an obviosly false, ridiculous and outrageous claim (that conservatives who want their country (ie reestablishment of conservative agenda and defeat of a liberal one) are really just racists who’s real opposition to Obama is his skin colour. A claim out straight of liberal propaganda. Without an ounce of evidence ofcourse since for this kind of lunacy it’s hard to find even something that looks like evidence.

Do you like your company?

Alexey on July 22, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Well if Obama is not actually born in America then he lied and his presidency is a sham and he needs to be booted out of office.

Whether this natural-born requirement is a bad idea, is debatable but its the law right now. Obama and the Dems have already weakened and virtually bankrupted America, if we can get him removed on a technicality I’m all for it.

thinkagain on July 22, 2009 at 11:16 AM

Perhaps the original birth certificate merely stated: Father Not Known. A pretty common thing in many communities, especially if custody was going to be an issue.

coldwarrior on July 22, 2009 at 11:26 AM

“Lost in all the blather is the shining fact that the natural-born requirement is probably the single dumbest operative provision in the Constitution and in a sane world would have been abolished decades ago in favor of some sort of residency requirement”

I whole-heartedly disagree with this sentiment. I’m sorry, but you must be born in this country in order to lead this country. And i’m not someone who thinks Obama was not born in this country.

76United on July 22, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Why does Chris Matthews look like John Murtha?

ExpressoBold on July 22, 2009 at 9:39 AM

Wine, beer, whiskey and lots of of it everyday

kangjie on July 22, 2009 at 11:30 AM

I agree with the others. If there is nothing to hide, then just show the birth certificate.

It can’t be any simpler.

And for the record, the founders got it right. If you weren’t born here, then you don’t have the right to lead the U.S.

Nineball on July 22, 2009 at 11:30 AM

I agree with you, thinkagain, except I don’t think it’s just a technicality. If he wasn’t born in America then he’s not even a US citizen unless he naturalized somewhere along the line. And forging a COLB, wasting 3 million of taxpayers’ money (unless it was mostly foreign money, which would not only be immoral but a crime as well) on a campaign he knew was illegal, and sabotaging the American constitution and entire system of checks and balances while undermining the electoral process and the free market….

that rises to the level of sabotage by a foreign agent.

I began with the thought that this was just a technicality, but the more I’ve seen of the outright battle in the media, the blogosphere, the military, and amongst lawmakers against people who merely want the law to be followed, with legal documentation given for legal requirements, the more I see that this is not just a technicality. This is about the rottenness of the entire system of information, the judiciary, and governance.

If this issue was just an accidental oversight which got remedied quickly I’d say it was a technicality. The cover-up is the bigger issue, and the massive cover-up of this stinks to high heaven.

I e-mailed Ben Smith of Politico to tell him that he was wrong to say that Obama has presented his legal certified copy of the COLB. Obama presented an ONLINE IMAGE, which is never valid for legal documentation. Huge, huge difference – the difference between him sitting in jail or sitting in the White House right now. I asked Smith to change his “Lou Dobbs” article to reflect correct legal terminology and to e-mail me to tell what he decided to do with my request.

I’m not holding my breath.

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Why do people think that if one focuses on his birth cert that we don’t have the mental capacity to also focus on healthcare and everything else? ?
I can walk and chew gum and snap my fingers ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

bridgetown on July 22, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Coldwarrior at 11:26

Obama could have requested a COLB from Hawaii that verified only his name and place of birth. Still can, for that matter. Why he posted a forged document instead is and will continue to be a valid question regardless of anything else he shows us beyond this point.

Why he stated that he was born at Queens Hospital and then later wrote a letter on White House stationery with embossed seal saying he was born at Kapiolani Hospital is another valid question, regardless of anything else he presents.

Why all the news or Snopes-type websites simply changed “Queens” to “Kapiolani” in their existing articles and never addressed why the Precedent contradicted his own assertions – which was all the “fact-checking” any of them did, simply repeating what he said – is another valid question.

Those who assert that legal questions should be navigated by Snopes or Factcheck should be doing some serious, serious questioning of those two sites right now. Factcheck should be required to sign an affidavit saying that they were given a valid, certified copy of Obama’s COLB. They won’t do it, though, because if they did they would be charged with perjury. They have to keep this below the legal standard for evidence because if the attempt to document was actually a legal attempt, they would be liable for the forgery and perjury they willingly passed on as hearsay.

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 11:42 AM

Another post with over 700 comments that doesn’t make the “Top Picks” section of this blog.
that’s funny

bridgetown on July 22, 2009 at 11:45 AM

Actually, bridgetown, it’s very sad. Michelle Malkin is dead wrong on this.

When people who are already disgusted with government takeover of banks and auto industries realize that it’s a guy who may not even be a US citizen who is also trying to cram down our throats a government takeover of healthcare and the crippling of every American industry through crap and trade…. it will put this whole “a real conspiracy/attempted communist coup could never happen here” argument to rest.

The eligibility issue doesn’t detract from all the other content we need to hammer home. It absolutely focuses it.

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 11:53 AM

One other thing, too, for those who say that Obama lets this foment because he wants his political enemies to appear crazy.

This guy has posted forgeries to prolong this issue. He has said he was born at two different hospitals. The FBI says that if he lied about being born at Kapiolani using White House stationery it becomes a legal issue of potential perjury. The White House is stalling on the question of whether Obama really sent that letter to Kapiolani, and for good reason: this is something that has legal ramifications, unlike the “hearsay” of posting an internet image of a forged document.

If the precedent is willing to commit a federal crime in order to divide this country and make us unable to give each other a fair hearing, how is that anything less than treason? How is that any different than going into the crowded theater of an entire nation and shouting, “Fire!”?

It that’s “all” he’s doing then he needs to be hung for treason, after being run out on a rail by every decent-minded American among us. He’s not just LETTING this issue continue, he’s outright MAKING it continue. Those who try to justify his inaction will have a lot harder time justifying his actual ACTION.

So let’s hear it. Why is it really just a smart political ploy for him to use White House stationery with a seal to say that Kapiolani Hospital is where he was born, after having told everyone he was born at Queens?

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Lost in all the blather is the shining fact that the natural-born requirement is probably the single dumbest operative provision in the Constitution and in a sane world would have been abolished decades ago in favor of some sort of residency requirement.

THIS is the bias at work here. Thanks for finally being honest about it. For you, it’s not a question of whether Obama (or any other Presidential candidate) met their Constitutional burden and produced sufficient evidence to show natural born status, it’s that that provision itself is a “stupid dumb-dumb provision written by out-of-touch poopy heads.”

Well, you can like or dislike it, but it exists, it’s in the Constitution, and it’s binding. So let’s be honest when you attack the Troofers. It isn’t because they may or may not have a point, it’s that YOU don’t like the requirement. David Horowitz pulled the same shiat a few months back.

Hell, let’s just ignore it and vote a know-it-all illegal alien 20 year old college student into office in 2012. What could go wrong?

Saltyron on July 22, 2009 at 12:17 PM

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM

You know, if you quote facts…they should be facts…
Here is just one (of the several mis-facts you report).
There is a fold in the COLB…better look at the more recent and higher quality pics. Also pixels are not “missing” once again the higher quality re-prints show this.
The border is the “correct” border.
Please, read the FACTS, before reporting on someone else’s facts.
And seeing as the official from the Hawaiian Health Services unequivocally stated that the COLB was factual and accurate…as she said in answer to a specific question…”Was Obama born in Honolulu?”, and she responded “Yes”.
Move on…it is a dead issue.

right2bright on July 22, 2009 at 12:29 PM

Good Lt on July 21, 2009 at 8:55 PM

You seem damn convinced Obama met his burden of natural born citizenship. So convinced in fact, that you must have seen or may even possess authoritative sources to show what he produced, when and to who. You may even have them for McCain as well. Please provide them.

If it’s as “done deal as you allege, it should be easy to demonstrate, with actual dates of filing, etc. not news reports or hearsay. Post links to gov.t offices departments of records showing said filing.

I want to believe. Bring me in. Don’t ridicule me, convince me.

Saltyron on July 22, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Why does someone spend $one million on lawyers to keep all records sealed?

See the complete files here (US Library of Congress approved):
http://www.theobamafile.com/

Friendly21 on July 22, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Can you give me some links, right2bright?

How do you get “higher-quality reprints” than the original document Obama posted? What “more recent” pics? Did he post a different COLB and say it was the same one as he posted before which showed no fold?

I also listed 2 questions for those who weren’t going to believe what they couldn’t see with their own eyes, independent of somebody else’s “analysis”. You don’t say where you got your “facts” or why they are more accurate than Polarik’s. BUT I listed some things anyone can observe with their own two eyes.

What is your answer to those? I’ll refresh your memory:

1) Why does the circle on the top fold of Factcheck #5 bend with the fold but the authenticating “seal” doesn’t?

2) Why does Factcheck #1 lack the words “Barack Hussein Obama” immediately under the bottom fold?

I’d especially like a link with the statement from the Hawaii official, since it is ILLEGAL for him/her to answer that question without Obama’s permission. If he/she did answer it in any way, then Obama had BETTER have given permission or his/her sorry butt had better be sued. Link, please?

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 12:47 PM

I should have said “no second fold”. Of course, there was the top fold. It is the bottom fold – right where the seal is supposed to be – which didn’t show up on the fightthesmears image with edge detection. Are you saying that there is a different image, or that the image he actually posted has been more closely analyzed, or what? What you said made no sense to me. How many times has Obama posted different images?

Also, there’s no such thing as “facts” and then “other people’s facts”. There are documented facts. If you’re saying what I’ve said is not true, then show me why they’re not true. If one person says, “2+2=4″, the other can say, “No it’s not”, and you can go back and forth forever but until somebody has shown the proof it’s just childish arguing. If you’re saying that Polarik’s report has falsifications in it, then say so. If his report has faithfully reproduced the images then his alleged facts are clearly visible and documented. Are you saying he’s a liar?

But again, there are the 2 issues I raised with the actual Factcheck images that are there for anybody to see. Would you agree that those are facts – the failure of the “seal” on #5 to bend with the fold, and the absence of “Barack Hussein Obama” on #1?

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 12:58 PM

Should have been “the absence of “Barach Hussein Obama” IMMEDIATELY UNDER THE BOTTOM FOLD on #1?”

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 1:01 PM

At some point conspiracy believers get so where no evidence will convince them otherwise. You could bring nobel prize winning physicists in to explain why the twin towers collapsed and a 9/11 truther will have none of it. Likewise for moon-landing-was-faked nuts, the Clintons-murdered-Vince Foster conspiracists, holocaust deniers, etc. I think even the real birth certificate in their hands would not convince them, they would consider it “obviously” faked. Hey, if you look and see that you are way to the right of Michelle Malkin on this, you may be running off the rails.

okonkolo on July 22, 2009 at 1:06 PM

Kenya produce the birth certificate? Well, Kenya?

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on July 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Also, right2bright, don’t you think it funny that Ron Polarik has given a sworn affidavit regarding this issue but Barack Obama has never given anything he could be held legally accountable for? Why is Ron Polarik willing to put himself at risk of perjury charges if he’s shown to be lying, but Obama has EXPRESSLY avoided doing anything that would put him in legal jeopardy if he’s lying (as the signs of forgery on his hearsay computer image show)?

Why is Obama submitting “evidence” he knows can never legally be called anything but hearsay, when those documenting his forgery are willing to swear an oath as to their truthfulness?

Does that bother you at all – that our entire system of governance rides on hearsay?

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Okonkolo at 1:06

Let’s turn that around. There are some people who will believe a computer image of a COLB even when they are shown obvious signs of forgery. NOTHING will convince them to believe otherwise, even though the person posting the images will never lay their future on the line by SWEARING their truthfulness.

What would convince you that this COLB is indeed a forgery, Okonkolo? Facts. What facts would convince you?

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 1:11 PM

Dr Charles G Waugh at 1:08PM

They can’t; Kenya (Raila Odinga) sealed their records of Barack Hussein Obama II and Ann Dunham Obama(which don’t exist if he wasn’t born there).

How about if their ambassador and Sarah Obama both say on tape that Obama was born in Kenya?

Or how about if they construct a monument to commemorate the place of his birth?

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 1:17 PM

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Agreed justinicase, you said it better than I did.

thinkagain on July 22, 2009 at 3:05 PM

Whether you agree or not with the requirement, there it is. The founding fathers, in their wisdom, saw fit to write the Constitution that way. We can debate all day long whether we like that requirement (and I personally do), but removing it would require amending the Constitution and that isn’t going to happen any time soon. We could have similar discussions about the electoral college, for instance. Like it or not, the system works the way it does for now.

So, IMO, the issue with Obama’s birth is a rule-of-law question. The requirement exists. People have challenged whether he meets the requirement or not. Thus far, he has never produced adequate documentation to show that he does so. Therefore, we have a problem until he does. Honestly, I hope he does produce the birth certificate and it says that he was born in Hawaii. That would at least settle the matter and we could all move on. As it is, the question lingers and is now picking up steam. If he was born in Hawaii, he should be able to prove it easily enough. So do just produce the proof.

To play the thought game, what if somebody had run for President who was only 25. Would we be able to challenge his eligibility based on the age requirement? Why should that be off limits?

PersonalLiberty on July 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Good question, PersonalLiberty, and actually I think there was a case where a presidential candidate was removed from the ballot because he didn’t meet the age requirement. I wonder how they documented that he didn’t meet it, and why the guy didn’t sue anybody for illegally looking at his confidential records…

I’d say a person can refuse to consent to a background check, but if they do they simply cannot have a job that requires the background check. If they want the job they have to prove their qualifications. He’s refused to have the background check; he should be out.

justincase on July 22, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Lost in all the blather is the shining fact that the natural-born requirement is probably the single dumbest operative provision in the Constitution and in a sane world would have been abolished decades ago in favor of some sort of residency requirement.

Are you nuts?

Dr Evil on July 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Are You Drinking?

Dr Evil on July 22, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Are you Canadian?

Dr Evil on July 22, 2009 at 6:28 PM

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