Video: Obama’s “wise Latina” moment or something
posted at 4:45 pm on July 20, 2009 by Allahpundit
So lame is this supposed “gotcha” that I’m tempted to accuse Mediaite, which debuted a few weeks ago, of drumming it up in bad faith to create buzz. The “controversial” part:
That’s part of the African American experience. You are, in some ways, connected to this distant land, but on the other end, you’re about as American as it gets. In some ways, African-Americans are more fundamentally rooted in the American experience because they don’t have a recent immigrant experience to draw on. It’s that unique African-American culture that has existed in North America for hundreds of years long before we actually founded the nation.
Skip ahead to 5:30 and watch until about 7:20. They’re talking about how black Americans reconcile their national and racial identities; the boldfaced part is simply Obama saying that they identify more with the U.S. than with Africa because their ancestors came to America centuries ago and created a discrete culture. To believe that he was saying something Sotomayor-esque, i.e. that blacks are “more American” than other demographic groups, you’d have to ignore The One’s record as a national politician of staying as far away from racial controversies as humanly possible. As far back as the 2004 Democratic national convention, he was framing himself as a post-racial candidate (“There’s not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there’s the United States of America”); the only time he touched the subject on the trail was after the Wright controversy blew up and threatened to bring down his candidacy. Even here, he goes out of his way to say how not only black Americans but some white Americans he knows consider their visits to Africa to be life-changing experiences. The guy simply doesn’t throw “wise Latina”-type bombs. They’re not worth the political headaches. But as John Avlon notes today, we’ve already reached the point in some quarters on the right where Barry O is guilty of whatever charge is leveled at him, whether it makes sense or not. Presumably Mediaite’s counting on that to kick up some traffic. Have at it.
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IF? He’s said many overtly-racist things in his time. Esthier, you know what happens. The media ignores it and the whole thing is swept under the rug for the most part. He gets away with it.
amerpundit on July 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM
fleiter on July 20, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Nope, history fail. Remember that Spaniards came first. They’re white. English and Germans settled New England. White again. It would be ludicrous to claim that whites have longer American roots than other races despite their history here, so you can’t claim it for blacks.
theotherKate on July 20, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Politically correct talk is ruining good, honest conversations. This isn’t the America I thought I grew up knowing.
bridgetown on July 20, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Hahahahahahahaha! So awesome.
Shock the Monkey on July 20, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Bingo!
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Even that isn’t racist. It’s again, common sense. Blacks, with their uniquely American culture and decades of history, identify more as an American than immigrants whose culture only spans a few years.
What’s the problem here?
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 5:27 PM
The media skews the game yes, but we gain the most from desensitizing the public to claims of racism, so isn’t any false claim of racism is good for us?
DFCtomm on July 20, 2009 at 5:27 PM
Did any of you read the friggin’ headline at Mediaite?
<em>”Will The Right Make This Obama’s “Wise Latina” Moment?”
They’re practically saying please-please-please-fingers-crossed! And half the commenters here are chomping down on their bait. Hard.
Cuffy Meigs on July 20, 2009 at 5:30 PM
If that were enough, this man wouldn’t be president. Or do you disagree?
He’s said things that people can and have shrugged off. By overtly, I mean something no one could, not even Chris Matthews.
I know they do that, and that’s part of my point. Rather than covering our accusations as grounded in reality, they’ll only make us out to be the racists trying to trip up the first black president.
And then normal voters will only see that and think of that the next time we say something.
Not if they can just pin it to us rather than to accusations of racism in general.
Look, we’re the party of Lincoln. They have a keagle on their side. This should be a no-brainer in terms of race relations, and yet we’re considered the racists. If we can’t fight off that accusation, how will we fair any better in any other PR campaign?
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 5:32 PM
esthier: i don’t know you, but i don’t think you can be a native Virginian.
Virginians know that Native Americans were 1st. Then some motley whites, then slaves & women (in the same year). Virginia was also the destination of many indentured servants. some prisoners. alot of the whites who came to settle were “escaping” something back home: poverty, crime, religious persecution.
blacks have been given affirmative action. Native Americans? women? motley whites?
kelley in virginia on July 20, 2009 at 5:34 PM
I personally don’t believe that the GOP will ever escape the claims of racism as long as the south is the bedrock of their support. I have a theory that any party the white south ended up supporting was going to end up being labeled racist, and it was just the GOP that won the booby prize.
DFCtomm on July 20, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Ya, exactly the kind of common sense that gets called RACIST when we use it.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 5:37 PM
You know, having lived in 4 of the mostly heavily-black cities in the US, I never noticed African immigrants walking around in African regalia… the head-gear and t-shirts and so forth.
Seems to me that it’s the “native” blacks who go in for that crap.
guntotinglibertarian on July 20, 2009 at 5:37 PM
and also esthier: i don’t call myself an WASPy-American. I just say American. why do blacks have to call themselves African Americans? how many are from Africa? can they even trace their ancestry to Africa?.
sorry, let me go back into my box now.
kelley in virginia on July 20, 2009 at 5:37 PM
…Can we use this when hussein spouts off about “Reparations”?
christene on July 20, 2009 at 5:38 PM
well the Dems held a strong hold on the South for years & years. and they were racist. yet no one makes mention of that.
kelley in virginia on July 20, 2009 at 5:39 PM
I’m not. Lifelong Texan.
Not a huge fan of the Native American term. I’m native.
Also, I’m not sure why you’d say this as though no other states teach this as well. I know my nation’s history.
That said, I’m not sure the point you’re getting at. Obama here is talking about American culture and American identity. It’s not about who was here first but rather which groups identify with what.
American Indians weren’t big on assimilation, so the comparison is off a little.
And affirmative actions is for all minorities.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Count me out of that Lincoln crap. The man destroyed Federalism, raised a terrorist army against American citizens, imprisoned thousands of political opponents.
Yeah, history is written by the victors. But as far as I’m concerned, the man was a tyrant.
guntotinglibertarian on July 20, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Trying to spin the most reasonable interpretation to make it seem like that interpretation is an UNFAIR (probably racist) ATTACK ON THE PREZNINT !!!!
boris on July 20, 2009 at 5:40 PM
What? Who did the slaves work for? There was a huge immigration explosion following the civil war, but in 1800 whites outnumbered blacks in this country 4 to 1. Obama obviously, once again, has problems with his historical facts.
bopbottle on July 20, 2009 at 5:40 PM
I read it as Obama giving a behind the back excuse as to why he is not more fundamentally rooted in the American experience because his father (who he never really knew) was a temporary visitor from Kenya and he spent part of his childhood with his step-father outside the US as an Indonesian.
albill on July 20, 2009 at 5:40 PM
At this point the racist stuff barely makes a blip on my radar. It is all the raging commie madness that unnerves me.
bitsy on July 20, 2009 at 5:41 PM
So… Blacks are more American cause they’ve been here a long time…
Uh… and Obamas Dad was from KENYA?
And his Mom didn’t like America so much that ALL her husbands were NOT AMERICAN??? And, in fact, she may very well have given up her citizenship (can’t be a dual Cit in Indonesia)…
So, just what is this Black AMERICAN culture that Barry thinks he has the Moral Aurthority to talk about?
Romeo13 on July 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM
For a guy with absolutely no relationship to the African-American experience aside from marrying Michelle, he certainly can spout off a lot of deep thoughts on the subject. Of course, he’s talking to a certified dumbass like Anderson Cooper.
I just wish the miserable bastard would keep his mitts off Jerusalem and stop kissing Islamofascist butt.
He DOES have a relationship there…
TexasJew on July 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Ogabe learned his Black Liberation Theology at the feet of the master. It’s part and parcel.
guntotinglibertarian on July 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM
No common sense there, as far as I can see. Any one immigrant who escaped the clutches of totalitarianism and oppression (Cuba, Iron Curtain, Korea, etc.), understands the value of freedom, democracy and how precious they are, and is more American than “rev” Wright, Louis Farrakhan and all of their treacherous friends, family and supporters combined. It is not how many years one spends in this country.
runner on July 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM
And that’s the reaction we want everyone in the U.S. to have when false claims of racism are hurled about. I say any false accusation, no matter who makes it is good.
DFCtomm on July 20, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Understood.
amerpundit on July 20, 2009 at 5:44 PM
They seceded. How can you both leave the nation and also be citizens?
Well, do you support that kind of talk or not? If so, don’t complain when they do the same to you.
I don’t know, Kelley, but plenty don’t and find the term insulting, including serious liberals like Whoopie.
Some people just choose the word because they don’t like saying black is my guess. Whites have caucasian, but negro just sounds wrong.
I’m not calling it an attack but rather an unfair accusation of racism, you know, the same thing you agreed with earlier:
Ya, exactly the kind of common sense that gets called RACIST when we use it.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 5:44 PM
esthier: sorry to jump down your throat. however, i’m female & affirmative action didn’t pay my way thru law school.
but as bitsy said, its the commie madness that is tearing me up the most at this point.
kelley in virginia on July 20, 2009 at 5:45 PM
and esthier, as a texan, how can you not hold the right of secession as one of the dearest tenets of the Republic’s admission into the Union?
kelley in virginia on July 20, 2009 at 5:48 PM
More connected than whom? The hispanics will love this. I hate the son of a bitch already, so it doesn’t bother nor surprise me.
marklmail on July 20, 2009 at 5:48 PM
esthier, i promise i’m going to a different thread now. i love texas.
kelley in virginia on July 20, 2009 at 5:49 PM
That actually feeds into Obama’s point. Whereas you’re not as unlikely to see other immigrants in native garb.
You may be right.
It’s alright. I’m a woman too, and I didn’t get any help with college either. But women aren’t technically a minority in this country either, so anything we get from AA is going to be more diluted.
Thanks.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Because I also love America and wouldn’t want to just be a Texan. I’d rather Texans arm themselves and take over the US than leave it.
Don’t feel you have to leave. I’m OK with rough discussions.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Guilty as sin.
As for whether the great black dope said AA’s are better, nah. Cognitive dissonance? Who cares. Get used to it. It’s the Obamanation. Anything goes.
JiangxiDad on July 20, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Racism seems to be ok for minorities to practice. I been thinking that maybe, if its good enough for them, I might just give it a try. It just might be fun. I mean, even though I cringe when I hear someone being overtly racist, there must be some entertainment value to it. Why should I keep trying to judge a person on the content of their character and not their skin color when I, as a white male conservative, am the only one trying to do so. Let’s have some fun instead.
Sporty1946 on July 20, 2009 at 5:59 PM
They do. I don’t.
Anybody who makes that kind of remark can be legitimately criticized. Why spin it?
We seem to agree the most reasonable interpretaion is not the AllaSpin one. You’re spin mat be different than AP’s but it’s still spin.
Obama said it. It draws fair criticism. If W said something like that it would draw unfair criticism. So are you really saying “Give Obama a break” ?
Cuz my answer is NFW.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 6:00 PM
So, I guess since some of my ancestors were in America at least as far back as the 1700s, I must be more authentic.
Hey, does that make me more equal, too?
rogersnowden on July 20, 2009 at 6:00 PM
I guess some people are reading this as:
That’s how I read it, at first. If that’s how he meant it, I just have one question: who cares? In some ways, he’s got a point. He would ultimately be wrong, but it would be a starting point for a productive dialogue on the differences between how blacks and whites experience history.
I don’t get this conservative impulse to fight political correctness with political correctness. Race relations will never improve if none of the races are willing to give the others room to make interesting mistakes.
RightOFLeft on July 20, 2009 at 6:01 PM
American Indians weren’t big on assimilation, so the comparison is off a little.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 5:40 PM
So how do you account for the fact that one out of every three Oklahomans has Indian (aka “Native American”) blood?
And that the majority of Oklahoma reservation Indians are half-breed (or less) as far as their registered tribe goes?
Isn’t that “Americanizing”?
We chased almost all of our tribes (except for the most complacent, like the Alabama-Coushatta and Tigua) out of the state.
The Mescalero Apaches used to “own” the TransPecos, now they’re cleaning up at their casino and ski resort up at Sierra Blanca. Of course, their former land down in Texas is now known to have contaied over 15 billion barrels of oil..
The poor old Tiguas got their casino in Ysleta shut down by Rick Perry when they opposed him for governor. Bad move on their part…
TexasJew on July 20, 2009 at 6:02 PM
MEH!!!!
that’s me enthusiastically not caring.
Ampersand on July 20, 2009 at 6:03 PM
No, I’m saying exactly what I would say if W had said it. I don’t think it’s a racist comment, and I don’t think we help anything by saying it is.
That’s really all.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM
So what? That kind of comment draws fair criticism. It is in the same ballpark as “wise latina”.
AllaSpin’s claim is a less reasonable interpretaion than “more fundamentally rooted in the American experience than” those with recent immigrant experience. Hispanics, Muslims, Irish, Asian … etc
boris on July 20, 2009 at 6:07 PM
No one is attacking The Precedent on grounds of political correctness. It is a question of what he intended and how stupid it is, not if it is poltically correct. On the PC side, however, they are bound by the rules they try to impose on others.
Race relations are collectivist in nature. The problems will die when Americans return to individualism instead of being dragged down the collectivist abyss by the America-hating left.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Well, he is talking to Anderson Cooper, so he’s probably keeping his words small and his concepts sophomoric…
mojo on July 20, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Here is someone who understands the tactic vs concept issue.
anuts on July 20, 2009 at 6:09 PM
No one knows what he truly intended to say since he only provided the first half of a comparison. Chalk it up to his stupidity, his desire to not fully say what he thinks, or whatever, but he gave only half a thought. There is another half and you have to decide what that is. Given his history, it’s not that tough to make a decent guess. The Precedent has certainly not earned the benefit of the doubt. That is perfectly clear.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:13 PM
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM
It may not be a racist comment, but that depends on what immigrant groups he is referring to: Irish? Jewish? Italian?
Polish? Who the hell does he think comprised the vast majority of soldiers who fought in WWII?
I would give a normal person a pass on this, but considering the source, there is always some crappy little angle.
In short, I don’t think that we need a lecture from BHO as to what an American is.
TexasJew on July 20, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Of course not. He simply throws wise Latinas at the SCOTUS and promotes empathy as the key to good judicial sense. Keep trying to defend the moron, though.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:16 PM
As I said … it is the kind of remark that would draw fair criticism no matter who says it. You would defend W … fine. But you also are conflating criticism with accusing racism.
So lets call it “Mildly Offensive and Racialy Provocative but maybe not actual (you know) racism unless said by a Republican”.
Fair enough?
boris on July 20, 2009 at 6:19 PM
How do you know that? As a woman you are a designated recipient of the benefits of any recruitment efforts. You would like to believe that you were not a beneficiary, but you have no way of being sure. Sucks.
The Race Card on July 20, 2009 at 6:21 PM
She knows her LSAT scores.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:22 PM
I think you’re mistaking recruitment efforts with scholarships and other benefits. We agree that affirmative action may have indeed contributed to her acceptance. But I am pretty sure that she knows how she paid for her education.
The Race Card on July 20, 2009 at 6:23 PM
And kelley said “pay” so I guess she was referring to funding.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:24 PM
He’s either racist or his one of the dimmest bulbs ever. Who feels the need to explain why an American would feel more like an American than a continent he’s never lived in? And why must Allah go for such a bizarre explanation as the most likely choice?
http://patriotroom.com/article/obama-s-wise-latina-moment
Bill Dupray on July 20, 2009 at 6:30 PM
She knows her LSAT scores.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Obamna’s never released his LSAT scores. Or his grades. Or his papers. Or his associations. Or.. anything else, really.
TexasJew on July 20, 2009 at 6:30 PM
Proves nothing.
I have a close family friend who had near perfect SATs, an above 4.0 GPA, and a decades worth of volunteer work and extra curricular accolades. She got denied at UCLA; she is black.
I attended Cornell and Tufts Universities with a couple of students who were legacy admissions. Their grades were great but their SATS fell far below most of our peers. Their parents’ longtime financial support was likely the reason that they got accepted. They both graduated with honors. Anecdotes prove nothing; they do confirm the beliefs of those using them for proof though.
Affirmative Action has long since outlived its original intended purposes. The playing field has been leveled by the Internet in ways that legislation could never achieve.
The Race Card on July 20, 2009 at 6:33 PM
I tried to point that out to him as well.
The Race Card on July 20, 2009 at 6:34 PM
Yep. From listening to The Precedent – especially his unbelievably stupid remark on “profit and earnings ratios” – I figure that his SAT math score hovered around 440. From his inability to grasp the proper use of the indefinite article, along with other verbal quirks, I’d estimate his verbal score to be around 500. His LSAT scores were probably in the same percentile ballpark.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Yes, you beat me to that. I think he understood it :)
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM
Scores certainly prove something. Unless you think that all testing is totally worthless.
First of all, what the hell is a GPA above 4.0? That’s kind of nutty all by itself. And “decades worth of volunteer work”? How old is this person?
Legacy admissions are not very different from AA admissions, except that universities live off of their endowments, so there is some actual reasoning behind taking sub-par legacies. As to graduating with honors, the grade inflation is so bad that I find it hard to believe many graduate without honors, especially those who future favor is desired.
Anecdotes are anecdotes. They are tools that are worthwhile in the hands of some and abused in the hands of others.
Affirmative action never should have been introduced. It never helped anyone. Central Park West was built because Jews weren’t allowed in the co-ops on fifth avenue. Everybody benefitted more than if the government had forced the 5th aveunue co-ops to take the Jews.
Freedom of association is one of the most fundamental. Affirmative action required a total preversion of our legal system in return for very little, if not actually retarding the economic ascent of many. In the course of the devastation AA has wreaked it has also tainted the accomplishments of those who never needed AA.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 6:45 PM
I don’t see what that has to do with anything. American culture isn’t limited to veterans.
I disagree with you on that.
Yeah, I read that. I just happen to disagree. I can do that even after reading you.
Here, most of the criticism is just that. Most are using this comment to accusing him of racism, not to criticize his poor grammar or stupidity.
If that’s what you want to call it, don’t let me stop you. I’m just disagreeing with the premise that leads you to this conclusion.
I don’t find it even mildly offensive, because I don’t think he’s saying what you think he is.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 6:48 PM
Africa is still full of slavery.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2237312499464971431&ei=hvFkSoKPGJGYrQKemojBDQ&q=slavery+in+Africa&hl=en
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvbZj7Q–Ik
http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/entertainment/watch/v6276080yRYsnejH
TheSitRep on July 20, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Advanced Placement classes are worth 5.0, so they skew GPA for those who take them, giving them an edge.
Pretty sure he misplaced an apostrophe. Should have been “a decade’s worth” instead.
Anecdotes aren’t always helpful, but I think his point fits here, especially since he’s comparing it to another anecdote. Though really, all he had to say was that unless Kelley knew of someone with her exact resume who received help because of AA, then her statement falls flat, no matter what her resume was.
Race is right that scores are not all that matters. He didn’t need an anecdote to prove that. People with perfect SAT scores are commonly denied entrance to top schools.
At one point it was enough, but it hasn’t been that way for a very long time.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 6:52 PM
This is weirdness. THey didn’t do this when I was in AP classes. We took the AP tests and that was on our records, without having to inflate grades beyond reason. By this sort of reasoning, many classes should only be out of a 1.0 or 2.0 top grade for their GPA calculations. Of course, the people who subscribe to the “Seven intelligences” silliness would be up in arms over that.
Okay. I assumed the “a” was the mistake, but your interpretation is much better.
You have to understand The Race Card. He’s was talking about himself with the anecdote mention. But anecdotes are always helpful. They might not be important, but one can never go wrong with an added point of information.
They’re not all that matters, but they do matter.
Orientals, perhaps, but few others. A black with perfect SATs would not be denied entry anywhere.
We don’t like objective tests these days. They don’t break along the lines that social engineers want them to. That’s what Ricci was all about.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 7:02 PM
Actually, that’s not quite the reasoning. There’s no reason to punish someone for taking an easy class, and they seem to feel the same way about AP classes, which do take more work than the regular ones.
Either way, dual enrollment is the way to go, as AP tests aren’t always accepted as credit (though I’d argue the AP classes are more educational).
Can’t say I cared too much either way. With the extra ten points I kept an A average and yet was a C on the Academic Decathlon team.
Sure, but I didn’t think he was arguing otherwise.
I’m not so sure about that. It would depend on GPA extra circulars, etc.
Sure, but it’s not just that. Getting a perfect 1600 is simply too common these days to be the sole reason for acceptance.
So many people are going to college, and the top schools have very low acceptance rates even though many have all the perfect scores.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Except the basis of our discussion was specific and you challenged me on it. Your claim was that my interpretaion (whatever Obama really meant) was “common sense”.
It does not matter to me whether YOU find it mildly offensive, IT IS mildly offensive (common sense notwithstanding) given current cultural sensitivities. That means I can criticize it without some nanny scolds wagging their fingers at me going “tsk tsk tsk”.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Sorry, Esthier, but that is EXACTLY the reasoning. If one is going to make GPA based on the difficulty of the calss (as can be the only reason to give AP classes extra room) then one must apply that rule evenly throughout. But I pointed out that those who subscribe to that silly “seven intelligneces” thing would be offended, since they want to be told that great finger painting or socializing makes them “intelligent”.
It’s not a matter of getting college credit. The AP test scores are part of the record. Period. That’s all you need. A 5 on the Calc BC exam is better information than having a record saying that you took AP math.
When I went to high school, this sort of silliness was not around. I never felt that I deserved more GPA points for taking harder classes. I took the hardest classes that were available because I enjoyed them.
If 1600′s are so common these days, then the mean SAT scores for the top schools should be around 1550. There aren’t that many 1600′s. And if you think that a black student who gets a 1600 would not be accepted anywhere then I think you have an odd notion of what universities are looking for. You have no idea of the racial/ethnic/gender bean-counting that is the center of most university activities. It is quite insane, but it is what actually happens.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 7:21 PM
The most reasonable interpretation of Obama’s comment is every bit as racially provocative as the most reasonable interpretation of “wise latina”.
African Americans have a “special” connection with America that other more recent immigrents do not share. Whatever he “really meant” THAT is what he clearly said.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 7:24 PM
That is, recent immigrants are not as American as African-Americans
runner on July 20, 2009 at 7:34 PM
WHAT?!?!?!!?!??!?!!
Ronnie on July 20, 2009 at 7:38 PM
A black man is lecturing a white man on the black experience. He must be right because he is, after all, black.
But actually, he’s half-black/half-white. He’s the product of the union of a woman whose white immigrant heritage, according to his reasoning, is too recent to be as deeply rooted in American culture as blacks’ heritage, and a black man who was himself an actual immigrant.
So his remarks are no less supposition than any other American’s and he’s just guessing and pontificating.
flicker on July 20, 2009 at 7:54 PM
That blacks who’ve been here for generations are more tied to American culture than African and that they are more tied to American culture than recent immigrants who still have ties to their former countries?
Yeah. It’s common sense.
I’m not scolding you, just disagreeing.
And I don’t see how a statement of the obvious can ever be offensive.
How is that offensive? Of course they have a special connection recent immigrants don’t. They have a longer history here. And unlike most recent immigrants, they didn’t set up “Little Africas” in big cities. They didn’t carry their former culture with them the way more recent immigrants tend to.
Really don’t see the problem.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 7:58 PM
I disagree. I see it as a way of encouraging high achievers to take classes they’d otherwise avoid because it would ruin their GPAs.
There’s no similar motivation for other classes.
You apply for college mid senior year. You take AP tests in the summer. So, at that point, it is only about college credit.
I think you’re looking at it the wrong way. If anything, it’s more of an equalizer so that it gives over-achievers a way to gain GPA points, and because those people are competing against each other, the extra points only mean perfection isn’t 4.0.
In other words, it’s another way to stand out, and at top tier colleges, it’s necessary as you won’t be able to get a 4.5 otherwise.
I believe that. I just also believe there are enough black students who score that high as well. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but there’s a reason schools want more information, and it isn’t just because of standardized testing issues.
Besides, in Texas the state schools are a little different. Any student in the top ten percent gets automatic admission, which has meant that many people with just high SAT scores (without the grades to match) can’t get in simply because there are too many top ten percenters in already.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Oh really. You are obviously an idiot then. Hope that’s not offensive or anything.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 8:12 PM
And so is “wise latina”.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 8:13 PM
It’s been mentioned before on this thread that many immigrants who come here (legally), appreciate the opportunities and liberty of America (regardless of their skin color) do better than those born here (of any heritage) who disdain eduacation, deny opportunity, and abuse their liberties. So no. It is not common sense or obvious by a long shot.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 8:20 PM
Students don’t need to be given special GPA considerations in order to entice them to take AP courses. This is the totally wrong way of thinking. If a kid wants to take some easy class for his GPA and doesn’t care about learning, then that says as much about the student as anything. I am 1000% against this idea of having AP classes being out of a 5. That’s crazy.
My mistake, Esthier. I took my AP exams in 10th grade so I didn’t take this all into account. In any event, the course description of AP should be enough for colleges to make the distinction, instead of adding grade points – which places other schools at a disadvantage, right?
But, if I go to a normal school that only gives A’s (4.0) even for AP classes, then these other schools are jacking up their grades at my expense. It’s cheating, basically, and goes a long way to kill any standardization of scoring – which is somethign that liberals are always attempting to do.
Then they have to change to top 5% or top 2%. That’s not a difficult problem, but I’ll bet that the percentages can’t be changed for all sorts of racial reasons.
If as many people are scoring 1600 (or just above 1500) as you claim, then the test is not hard enough. That might be true as they have had to make adjustments for all sorts of illusory cultural problems. I’d have to see the real numbers to make a real judgment about this.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 8:25 PM
Anderson Zoolander and the One. Too much self importance to be contained even by the mighty continent of Africa.
themistocles on July 20, 2009 at 9:15 PM
And now you want to compare childish insults that are meant to cause offense to his statement?
Yeah, I can’t possibly take offensive at that. I find it humorous.
No, it really isn’t. That comment made no logical sense and was completely offensive.
Had she said, “wise latinas tend to know Spanish” it wouldn’t have been a problem, as that would be both logical an inoffensive.
You’re missing a major point which is that attitude has nothing to do with it. It’s not about how much someone loves this country or that someone would fight for it. Culture has nothing to do with any of that.
It’s not even about being “good” or “bad” Americans. It’s just about one’s connection to this country and a lack of a connection to the country you came from. That’s it.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Good stuff.
The Race Card on July 20, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Right on. Dr. Benjamin Chavis of AIPHS agrees with you.
Liberals typically do not believe that Blacks, Latinos and women (to a lesser degree) would succeed without the point shaving, horse-doping, logic that comes with affirmative action.
Conservatives are willing to let the cream rise regardless of the skin tone.
I think one of the main barriers to success is the understanding of America’s boundless resources. Even during a recession, good students of all backgrounds can find a good school and money with which to pay for it. It is a matter of diligent research.
Also, some women are bold enough to ask total strangers to pay for their boob jobs. Why not sponsor a future co-ed hottie on her quest to get a degree?
The Race Card on July 20, 2009 at 9:50 PM
Does our wife know about this plan?
The Race Card on July 20, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Maybe, maybe not. A good student will learn no matter the teacher. An easier class just means less of a chance at messing up their grades.
Really? I couldn’t tell. :)
I wonder if we’re talking about the same classes. AP classes weren’t even available for people in my school until their junior or senior year.
What makes you think any schools do this? It’s fairly standard.
Besides, even if one didn’t, colleges would know that and be able to make adjustments just as easily as they can read a course description.
Beats me. I think it’s a stupid law anyway. Who says all students in the top ten percent are any better in college? Maybe they all took easy classes and padded their grades.
I’ve heard a mixture of opinions, that being one of them. It’s supposed to be an aptitude test, but it seems to rely more on memorization.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Maybe, but women who trade on their looks rarely get people interested in their brains.
Whereas a hot woman getting boobs is only making her hotter.
Interesting link, btw. I have heard that in lower education there is a high correlation between success and attendance.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Oh dear … I’ve offended you. And I thought we were on such close wavelength that I could leave off the smiley face. My bad. So sorry.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 10:28 PM
Oh BS. The topic between us is my interpretation of his words, not yours. Maybe you really are an idiot :-).
He said: “African-Americans are more fundamentally rooted in the American experience ..”
It so happens that opportunity and liberty are the American experience immigrants come here to enjoy. It also happens those are often what African Americans disdain. YOU don’t get to define what Obama’s words mean and you sure don’t get to say what my interpretaion of those words mean.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 10:39 PM
It is a childish insult. I got that you were going with something there and said as much earlier, but, because your word choice is an insult, and not even a covert one, the comparison falls flat.
But again, I’m not offended. I rarely say what I don’t mean. If I’m offended, it’ll be obvious.
Or rather my interpretation of his words.
Than the African one, in contrast to recent immigrants who are more connected to their former “homelands”.
No, I don’t, but then neither do you.
My interpretation is as I’ve been saying it is. And to put it more plainly, I’ll give examples. There was a time when black Americans were more Afro-centric, but when you compare their sudden interest in African masks, clothes and names to Mexicans and their affection for Mexico, including the language, food and various holidays, the former looks more like a fad, while the latter looks like an identity and a way of life.
That many Mexicans come to this country with pride, a desire to succeed and even fight to protect this country has nothing to do with the above.
Granted, Africans who were brought here weren’t given much of a choice. Had they immigrated by choice as free men, it’s entirely possible that they’d be just like the Mexicans and that we’d have African restaurants and Little Africa in every major city. But they didn’t, and thus, their history is far more tied to the United States.
Even descendants of the first white Americans are more likely to have a more firm connection to the country they came from. My father has a family tree that’s been passed down to the eldest son in his family for generations. I know that my ancestor Pat came over on a boat in the 1800s. It’s unlikely that even one descendant of a slave has that, not just because American enslaved them but also because these slaves were slaves in their own homeland.
That is my interpretation of what Obama has said, expanded almost as fully as I can expand it. I see it as an interpretation of history through the lens of common sense and see no problem with it and do not understand why anyone would.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 11:00 PM
“
When the topic is my interpretaion of those words … I most certainly do.
Whatever Obama “really” meant, my interpretaion of what he said: “African Americans have a special connection with America that other more recent immigrants do not share”.
I say that is comparably offensive as wise latina because it is neither common sense nor obvious, in fact it is obviously not true. I have no interest in your intepretation and have not challenged it. You have challenged mine however as either common sense or obvious or beside the point. You don’t get to redefine my words or change the subject (unless you want to abandon the issue and pretend to have settled it).
boris on July 20, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Not unless you’re saying I have to agree with you. I thought the topic was whatever he actually meant.
Then how else am I supposed to counter your idea that it’s offensive?
I’m trying only to talk directly on the subject by explaining my view. How else am I supposed to be talking to you about this?
I have no idea what you want out of this.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 11:54 PM
Yes I understand the AllaSpin interpretaion already. If Obama had added those words that would be the ONLY reasonable interpretation, but he did not. That leaves the words he did say, and the most reasonable intepretation of the words he did say is: “African Americans have a special connection with America that other more recent immigrants do not share”.
Up until your last attempt to change the subject (again) that is what WE have been talking about.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 11:56 PM
No. You claimed my interpretation, clearly stated, was just common sense and obvious and therefore should not be the least bit offensive to anybody.
boris on July 20, 2009 at 11:57 PM
No, that’s my interpretation. I’m not parroting Allah.
I don’t know what makes you think I’ve been trying to change the conversation, but apparently you think you can set the strict rules as whatever you say they are, in which case I’m not being given a chance to discuss this with you anyway.
Esthier on July 20, 2009 at 11:58 PM
And then I further explained what I meant by that.
See, I didn’t (and don’t) consider it just your interpretation. I’ve agreed that’s what he meant and said so as much as possible here, even giving examples that apparently you won’t even bother to read.
Esthier on July 21, 2009 at 12:00 AM
Are you willing to agree that “African Americans have a special connection with America that other more recent immigrants do not share” would not be common sense, that it might be somewhat offensive, that immigrants who come to America for opportunity and liberty have an American connection not shared by those who disdain them …
Because that is a valid interpretaion of Obama’s comment. You may wish he had said it differently, you may think he meant to, but he didn’t.
boris on July 21, 2009 at 12:06 AM
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