Germans: Of course Iran kept working on nuclear weapons
posted at 1:36 pm on July 20, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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When the American intelligence community reversed itself in 2007 and announced that Iran had quit working on nuclear weapons in 2003, jaws dropped around the world. George Bush’s political opponents at home and enemies around the world used it to buffalo the administration into reducing its effort to corner Tehran, but European intelligence agencies did not fall for the political kneecapping performed on Bush. At the time, British intel rejected that conclusion, and now the Wall Street Journal reports that the Germans have thoroughly debunked it:
The Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany’s foreign intelligence agency, has amassed evidence of a sophisticated Iranian nuclear weapons program that continued beyond 2003. This usually classified information comes courtesy of Germany’s highest state-security court. In a 30-page legal opinion on March 26 and a May 27 press release in a case about possible illegal trading with Iran, a special national security panel of the Federal Supreme Court in Karlsruhe cites from a May 2008 BND report, saying the agency “showed comprehensively” that “development work on nuclear weapons can be observed in Iran even after 2003.”
According to the judges, the BND supplemented its findings on August 28, 2008, showing “the development of a new missile launcher and the similarities between Iran’s acquisition efforts and those of countries with already known nuclear weapons programs, such as Pakistan and North Korea.”
It’s important to point out that this was no ordinary agency report, the kind that often consists just of open source material, hearsay and speculation. Rather, the BND submitted an “office testimony,” which consists of factual statements about the Iranian program that can be proved in a court of law. This is why, in their March 26 opinion, the judges wrote that “a preliminary assessment of the available evidence suggests that at the time of the crime [April to November 2007] nuclear weapons were being developed in Iran.” In their May press release, the judges come out even more clear, stating unequivocally that “Iran in 2007 worked on the development of nuclear weapons.”
This rises far above the level of evidence provided in the 2007 NIE. The court had to determine whether evidence presented by the German government could convict a defendant in an espionage trial, and the case rested in large part on whether the Iranians had continued to develop nuclear weapons. A lower-court ruling had tossed out the indictment, ruling that the US NIE showed that Iran had not done work on its nuclear-weapons programs during the time that the defendant had allegedly traded illegally and conducted espionage on behalf of their program. In response, the BND showed the court their evidence of continued work on the weapons program — which the court ruled sufficient to use at trial.
As the authors note, this decision calls into question yet again how the US intelligence service could have concluded otherwise. Did they not coordinate with the Germans, who have much better access to Iran than either the US or even the British? The BND says they shared these findings with the Americans prior to the publication of the NIE, but that they were ignored. Why?
It’s really not difficult to conclude that the higher echelons of American intelligence had gone to war with the Bush administration early in his presidency. The 2007 NIE was their coup de grace, making Bush impotent and giving them control over American foreign policy. It also let vital time slip past while Iran continued to develop nuclear weapons, although in the event, Europe simply rejected the NIE as faulty and proceeded along the same path that Bush had demanded. The NIE gave Russia and China political cover to block the West’s attempts to rein in the Iranians, although that would have happened anyway with other rationalizations.
Democrats are demanding a reckoning with the CIA over a program that never proceeded past the spitball stage. Republicans ought to demand a reckoning, too — over the NIE and the wool that got pulled over the eyes of Congress.
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Isn’t this like the fourth or fifth debunking of the NIE report? The most important debunking having been reading the report past the over publicized synopsis.
myrenovations on July 20, 2009 at 1:38 PM
You mean that “tiny nation”?
mankai on July 20, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Seriously. Anyone who believed this at the time are naive to the ways of the world – especially the islamic world.
marklmail on July 20, 2009 at 1:39 PM
It’s pretty sad that partisan hacks within our own intelligence agencies would kneecap our foreign policy.
BadgerHawk on July 20, 2009 at 1:40 PM
How’s that strategy working out for you, CIA?
Vashta.Nerada on July 20, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Axis Of Evil speech ringing more true than ever, despite modern Chamberlains in Dem party.
jgapinoy on July 20, 2009 at 1:40 PM
The NIE was a product of committees under the ODNI and they soft-peddled the threat…pretty much said there was no threat…based on what?
The BND has had their own set of problems, but they have access to a lot of places we do not. Talking to an American can mean death or imprisonment. Talking to a German…pretty much no problems at all.
It was the BND who tried to show us Curveball was a dud, if memory serves.
coldwarrior on July 20, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Good thing the Israeli’s don’t have to rely on our inept intelligence. The WSJ actually stated our service was sabotged.
fourdeucer on July 20, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Gotta love the Germans.
Yeah. You know, the one that Obama thinks is no significant threat to the U.S.? That one.
Rightwingguy on July 20, 2009 at 1:43 PM
You’re telling me that a repressive regime that wants to destroy Israel, steals elections and rapes protesters would fib on its secret nuclear weapons program?
rbj on July 20, 2009 at 1:44 PM
You mean people lie on intelligence reports for political reasons?
/s
bluelightbrigade on July 20, 2009 at 1:44 PM
All these two-bit hacks and appeasers are going to get a bunch of people killed. How can these traitors allow our country to be sabotaged and set up for an attack? We need to root out these scumbags and deal with them now!
HomeoftheBrave on July 20, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Find a tee-shirt to fit that on.
whitetop on July 20, 2009 at 1:44 PM
The NIE did to W what the world accused W of doing to everyone else.
That’s the amazing irony.
bluelightbrigade on July 20, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Amen!
that their hatred for Bush was that intense makes my blood boil…..
cmsinaz on July 20, 2009 at 1:47 PM
We need to root out these scumbags and deal with them now!
HomeoftheBrave on July 20, 2009 at 1:44 PM
I think the Israeli’s will have to deal with the Iranians with little support from us. How can we deal with the enemy’s within our own government?
fourdeucer on July 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM
It is long past time to identify the people responsible for the bogus NIE findings. Those findings were apparently politically motivated, and the responsible parties need to be removed from positions of power to prevent further such abuses that threaten our national security.
I support the hard working men and women in the CIA generally. I am appalled and disgustged by the political attacks made on the agency by the pusillanimous Pelosi and her Democrat lapdogs, beginning with that idiot Reyes. On the other hand, after the efforts of Pelosi, Reid and the rest of their traitorous ilk to sabotage the war effort in Iraq, I am not surprised.
But there is no question there are some bad apples that need removing from the CIA barrel. Time to shine a very bright light on this issue and get to the bottom of it.
novaculus on July 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM
NOW we can see how 9/11 happened.
When the people who are supposed to be watching out for us are playing politics people get killed.
How is it possible that they can get away with that?
Stephanie on July 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM
JP this morning had an article about Gates coming to Israel to warn them off an attack. It isn’t in OUR interest. It is nice to know that Israel must, according to Barry, protect us before they protect themselves.
Limerick on July 20, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Gesundheit
Daggett on July 20, 2009 at 1:50 PM
At the risk of wandering off into “Black Helicopter” territory, I can’t help but occasionally wondering if the recent “election turmoil” in Iran is actually being orchestrated by the Iranian Powers That Be as a red herring to keep the West, and particularly the Israelis, off balance until the Get The Nuke.
Ok, tell me I’m nuts. (Man, is that asking for it!)
Bruno Strozek on July 20, 2009 at 1:51 PM
Wunderbar. /
ICBM on July 20, 2009 at 1:51 PM
They should put that on their SWAT jackets. Anyone big enough to wear the jacket wouldn’t need to carry a gun.
Vashta.Nerada on July 20, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Iranian Mullahs, who believe the end of the world is coming, with nukes…what could go wrong?
Mr. Joe on July 20, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Are you telling me that the Bush Administration’s influence and authority were undermined for political reasons???
SHOCKA!
cannonball on July 20, 2009 at 1:53 PM
CIA: Close eyes, cover ears, and repeat after us: Bush lied!
The Iranians discontinued their nuclear program in 2003. I’m Valerie Plame, and I approve this message.
/sarc
Steve Z on July 20, 2009 at 1:53 PM
According to Barry? We could stop them.
Limerick on July 20, 2009 at 1:53 PM
The CIA is just as bad as the DNC ever since Clinton purged the CIA and put his own cronies in. Bush tried to clean house but wasn’t allowed to for the most part.
A pox on both the CIA and Congress!
BTW: off topic but I found this interesting:
Obama meeting with LDS Church President Thomas S Monson to recieve family history.
Maybe this will settle the birther question… or just bring it up again?
Chaz706 on July 20, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Steve Z on July 20, 2009 at 1:54 PM
That actually sounds more likely that not to me (but maybe we’re both paranoid).
You’re not paranoid if your right!
Chaz706 on July 20, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Anybody know of some good reference materials on building fallout shelters?
Chainsaw56 on July 20, 2009 at 1:56 PM
FLASHBACK TO 2007
Keith Olbermann exposes the Bush administration’s catastrophic deceptions on IRAN in light of the NIE report.
HA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlF2YcnWUio
therightscoop on July 20, 2009 at 1:57 PM
There were actually two more parts to the NIE that the media conveniently forgets. The first part found that Iran was enriching uranium for purposes other than fuel. The second part found that they were building long-range missiles capable of delivering a warhead. The third part was the one the media likes to focus on which said they were not working on any warheads and hadn’t been doing it since 2003. I am not debating that the report was not politically motivated, but people who use it as a blanket statement as proof of Bush’s malfeasance or idiocy have no clue what they are talking about (which is fairly typical).
txaggie on July 20, 2009 at 2:00 PM
It’s crystal clear why Obama appointed Penetta to head up the CIA and Eric Holder to AG. Black helicopters or not we are in a world of hurt.
fourdeucer on July 20, 2009 at 2:00 PM
The limited (1, 2 or 3 bombs) nature of an Iranian strike here means fallout will be the least of your concerns. You better worry about Bubba looking for a can or pork-n-beans.
Limerick on July 20, 2009 at 2:01 PM
They are all crocks and traitors playing inside politics with American citizens lives, we ought to just line them all up against the damned wall and shoot them.
doriangrey on July 20, 2009 at 2:02 PM
I sense a Renault award in the wind
LimeyGeek on July 20, 2009 at 2:02 PM
…until that speech in Cairo, that is.
cntrlfrk on July 20, 2009 at 2:03 PM
I like your style
LimeyGeek on July 20, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Already working on that!
;-)
Chainsaw56 on July 20, 2009 at 2:05 PM
When the people who are supposed to be watching out for us are playing politics people get killed.
How is it possible that they can get away with that?
Stephanie on July 20, 2009 at 1:49 PM
>>>>>
They gag the people who know.
The US military’s “Able Danger” datamining group identified Atta’s Brooklyn-centered Al Qaeda cell a year before 9-11 but they also identified suspicious connections with Defense Secretary William Perry. So the DOD had the data destroyed.
Later, when a judge forced Perry to obey the FOIA, it was shown that his own company sold dual-use satellite technology to a company he knew was owned by the wife of the Chinese military head.
And of course, the intel they destroyed could have prevented around 3,000 people from losing their lives on 9-11-01.
CYA at its finest – er, deadliest.
It was considered insubordination for the Able Danger folks to keep trying to get the information where it could do some good. Eventually the DOD gagged the Able Danger whistleblowers so they couldn’t testify before Congress. That was the end of it. Down the memory hole.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Oh – and the Able Danger snuffing happened at a time when Congress had already had 2 different reports strongly encouraging Janet Reno to investigate the Clinton administration. The Cox Report showed the danger of Chinese front companies. And the Thompson Report (Fred!) showed the probability that Clinton was selling out to the Chinese for campaign cash.
In both instances, Janet Reno obstructed the Congressional investigation and afterwards when called upon to investigate just said she wouldn’t. End of story.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:10 PM
You’re more likely to be a victim of an EMP attack than you are having to worry about fallout. It’s the post-apocalyptic part I’m worried about!
But since you asked, I’ll answer: on fallout shelters: http://americanbombshelter.com/
Hardening a home against EMP: http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/emp_and_faraday_cages.htm
as for post apocalyptic survival, you will have to learn the skills on your own.
Chaz706 on July 20, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Yea, well some of us still remember and are waiting for a day of reckoning on Able Danger.
doriangrey on July 20, 2009 at 2:12 PM
There are a lot of days of reckoning I’m waiting for. I’m coming to believe none of them will happen until the day these people die – and then justice will be swift and irreversible. Here on earth, it’ll never happen unless something really BIG changes.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:15 PM
I still have the National Review from when the NIE report was given.
We didn’t believe it then, we don’t believe it now.
Anyone who did is a fool or wishes this country harm.
thebrokenrattle on July 20, 2009 at 2:19 PM
It’s pretty sad that partisan hacks within our own intelligence agencies would kneecap our foreign policy.
BadgerHawk on July 20, 2009 at 1:40 PM
thomasaur on July 20, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Chaz506, WorldNetDaily has an article about Israeli scientists who have come up with an injection which, when given within 3 days of radiation exposure, will prevent both death and health damage in most instances. It’s effectiveness has been tested on monkeys exposed to radiation and its safety for humans on humans without radiation exposure.
But, like you say, surviving the initial attack isn’t the whole story. The total shutdown of our society, economy, infrastructure, etc is what would be most devastating for people outside the immediate blast area, or in the case of an EMP attack.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Shaffer has also told the story of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) opposition to Able Danger, prior to 9/11, based on the view Able Danger was encroaching on CIA turf. According to Shaffer, the CIA representative said, “I clearly understand. We’re going after the leadership. You guys are going after the body. But, it doesn’t matter. The bottom line is, CIA will never give you the best information from ‘Alex Base’ or anywhere else. CIA will never provide that to you because if you were successful in your effort to target Al Qaeda, you will steal our thunder. Therefore, we will not support this.”[23][dead link]
Who was it that insisted the inteligence community could not share information? Was it Jamie Gorrelick?
fourdeucer on July 20, 2009 at 2:24 PM
God will not forget. God willing, these men will burn for their crimes… in this life or the next.
Chaz706 on July 20, 2009 at 2:25 PM
That injection sounds interesting… but I’d have to wonder if I really want to deal with the post-apocalyptic wasteland before using it.
Thanks for the info. I do appreciate it.
Chaz706 on July 20, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Fourdeucer, it was Jamie Gorelick – the one who sat on the 9-11 Commission afterwards (gag).
But it has since been admitted that the info Able Danger had was not even subject to the Gorelick Wall, because Atta and his cohorts were not American citizens.
The Gorelick Wall was just an excuse. The real reason for getting rid of the information was the higher-ups wanted to cover for Sec Def William Perry. He had a direct influence on their futures.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Democrats poking the Tiger:)
lasertex on July 20, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Chaz706, I know what you mean. To be honest, as I see how screwed up this country is getting I wonder if I should move to NYC so my children and I can be in the direct blast when it comes. Being turned to fumes instantaneously might be preferable to having to stick around any longer.
I hate sounding like this, but it’s gut-level realistic.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:34 PM
It is tme to level Langley and Foggy Bottom and sow the ground with salt.
Geoffrey de Bouillon on July 20, 2009 at 2:36 PM
The period when the NIE was released was one of the more frustrating ones for me in general in recent history. I was pulling my hair out in frustration & disbelief.
Sec Gates is coming to Israel next week to put the screws on Israel NOT to attack Iran. According to the Pentagon, both Iran, Hezbollah & Hamas are all on the run / defensive and the reason Isn’t Israel.. it is Get This: Obama’s speeches & overtures!!!
Apparently America is preparing to appease & court Syria next.. Yeeha.
saus on July 20, 2009 at 2:37 PM
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Thanks for the information. All the fiction writers could never convolute the truth as bad as our own government.
fourdeucer on July 20, 2009 at 2:38 PM
We all knew that the declaration in the 2007 NIE was a load of sh!t. Only the biggest moron in the world didn’t know this. Of course, only an even bigger moron could think that we should be negotiating with those savages.
The answer is that Iran’s nuke industry must be turned to dust, its top level of government and scientists killed, and its oil and gas fields taken back (the theft of which was one of the main reasons we helped to get Mossadeq out of there). There is no other solution to the savages in Iran. Anything less than what I have detailed will result in the continuation of threats emanating from Iran, necessitating even more actions long into the future.
progressoverpeace on July 20, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Saus, have you read this one?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104430
Makes me sick. Just like it makes me sick to see America siding against the Iranians who want to be free and the Hondurans who want to follow their own Constitution.
Sounds like you’re in Israel. Is that right? If so, do the Israelies realize that what Obama is doing is sickening a LOT of us red-blooded Americans?
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Israelis, that is.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Thanks for the Links.
I’m not so sure they would want to go with an EMP type attack – yes it would mess up our infrastructure, but it might not make the ’statement’ they would like. IIRC,they would need to get a weapon to a relatively high altitude to do that.
Maybe in conjunction with an attack on ground targets, but not by itself – that wouldn’t be (pardon the pun) flashy enough.
Chainsaw56 on July 20, 2009 at 2:49 PM
I think they’ll relish the political momentum they would gain from turning the lights out on the Great Satan.
Accuracy requirements for such a missile are minimal too….just lob it high enough into the vicinity of central USA and we’re toasted.
LimeyGeek on July 20, 2009 at 2:55 PM
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:46 PM
That WND article you just linked is pretty depressing. Time to start practicing Duck and Cover. The entire article should be a headline at Hot Air.
fourdeucer on July 20, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Yeah, the thought of 5 or so Chicago morons running everything in the US is very depressing. And there is nobody who is either willing or able to do a dang thing about it.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Well, before we go into full panic mode, let us remind ourselves that the last time we allowed German intelligence to direct our foreign policy, they foisted Curve Ball on us. And we all know what happened with that.
Given that the Germans have zero credibility in WMD matters, shouldn’t we require corroboration from another source?
DubiousD on July 20, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Yeah…let’s wait until the temperature rises rather suddenly, then start asking questions and pointing fingers. It’s the American Way.
LimeyGeek on July 20, 2009 at 3:08 PM
The Germans botched the intelligence on Iraq. Now we’re supposed to believe their intelligence on Iran?
DubiousD on July 20, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Amazing how all of these experts are always oblivious to the obvious isn’t it?
jimmy2shoes on July 20, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Don’t worry, be happy. When Tel Aviv dissapears in a flash, time enough to start serious talks with Iran on our terms of surrender.
Friendly21 on July 20, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Dude Unreal, I don’t even know how I am going to process that after reading, it is so outrageous.
thx for the link!
saus on July 20, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Oh yeah, Justin – Tel Aviv.
saus on July 20, 2009 at 3:33 PM
Dubious D, when you say the Germans botched the WMD evidence on Iraq, is that considering what we’ve found out from Saddam’s own documents, or is that just following the MSM narrative? Much of what was believed to be inaccurate regarding Saddam’s WMD’s has been corroborated by his own documents, from George Sada, and intel from other sources, such as the Israelis. Saddam’s WMD’s are very likely in Syria right now, unless they’ve since been moved.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 3:47 PM
Curve Ball lied. The world intelligence community now acknowledges this. This is not under dispute. And the Germans knew but didn’t tell us.
Any new reports on WMD from Germany should be taken with a grain of salt. That’s all I’m saying.
DubiousD on July 20, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Saus, I hope everybody over there knows they have a lot more support from America than you’d guess by observing the dude in the White House. I think we always thought we’d help save your country, but more and more it’s looking like maybe we need yours to save ours.
Like you took out the Syrian nuke facility. The usual UN blowhards really had nothing they could say about it, and Syria wasn’t about to let anybody come check it. Suffice it to say that my respect for Israel went even higher after that one.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Trust but verify.
LimeyGeek on July 20, 2009 at 3:53 PM
What did he lie about, and how is it known he lied? I remember something about it but to be truthful our own CIA and media have played so loose and fast with facts that I’m not sure who to believe.
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Someone please explain to me…
If the NIE report was politically motivated and was produced to cover up nuclear proliferation in a country whose leadership has vowed to destroy us, just to discredit the head of the Executive branch, in order gain power over dealing in foreign policy…
How is this not considered treason?
dominigan on July 20, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Dominigan, treason is one of those old, out-of-date, Constitution words. It has nothing to do with the USA in 2009. Only a conspiracy theorist would suggest that our government is anything but roses and sunshine. You don’t want to be considered a truther/birther or other kind of ‘er, do you?
justincase on July 20, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Rats! You beat me to th EMP part.
;)
soundingboard on July 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM
If they put everyone in Washington who is guilty of treason in jail, unemployment would be back down to 5% by August. If they went nationwide, we’d be importing Mexicans by the train load to fill all of the empty spots, and not just in the MSM and legal firms. Prisons would be a lot nicer too, with so many cultured and educated inmates.
Immolate on July 20, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Consider this Chainsaw… what if you could perform 1 attack that would spell the doom of at least 10 percent (and probably more like 40 percent) of ALL americans immediately and put the other 90 (or 60) percent at risk of tearing each other apart.
An EMP strike would kill in indirect ways:
–> If you’re in an ICU, you’re a goner because your life support system just got fried.
–> Depend on medicine? Insulin? Drugs? Your transportation and manufacturing grid has been sent to the stone age.
–> Unless you have a years supply of food storage (or know how to grow your own food) you won’t have any for a week (and bubba will have to worry about you coming over for dinner… with a shotgun).
–> You have no way of communicating with anyone short of going up and talking to them.
–> Your car doesn’t work… because it’s fried.
–> our technology is done for.
In other words, the enemy will have succeeded in bringing us back to 900 A.D.
Chaz706 on July 20, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Time for the French and Germans to return the favor.
Help defeat a Fascist-O dictator from destroying the World.
lasertex on July 20, 2009 at 6:31 PM
Among Curve Ball’s many fibs was the mobile biological weapons labs, which became one of the underpinnings to Colin Powell’s presentation before the UN.
Anyway, for those interested, here’s WMD expert David Kay’s takedown on how the Germans botched intelligence last time.
German Intelligence Was ‘Dishonest, Unprofessional and Irresponsible’
Note, I’m not trying to let the Iranians off the hook here. I just don’t trust German intelligence either, that’s all.
DubiousD on July 20, 2009 at 7:52 PM
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