Zelaya’s ultimatum

posted at 9:11 am on July 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The negotiations between the opposing sides in the Honduras crisis have apparently reached an impasse, which prompted an ultimatum today from Manuel Zelaya, the Hugo Chavez acolyte ousted by the military, the legislature, and the Supreme Court.  If Honduras does not agree to reinstate him, Zelaya threatened to sneak back into the country and seize power:

An ultimatum from ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya left little room for compromise in U.S.-backed talks Saturday aimed at resolving a crisis that has become the latest test for democracy in Latin America.

Zelaya, who was forced into exile in a June 28 military coup, gave negotiators meeting in Costa Rica until midnight to restore him to office, threatening to return to Honduras in secret and attempt to retake power on his own if no agreement is reached. He indicated he would reject any power-sharing agreement, a proposal to be discussed at the talks.

“If at that time, there is no resolution to that end, I will consider the negotiations in Costa Rica a failure,” Zelaya said at a news conference Friday night at the Honduran embassy in Nicaragua. “I am going back to Honduras, but I am not going to give you the date, hour or place, or say if I’m going to enter through land, air or sea.”

He did not say what steps he would subsequently take. But earlier this week, he said Hondurans have a constitutional right to rebel against an illegitimate government.

Costa Rica did what it could to work out a diplomatic solution, but this has been an intractable problem since it erupted.  With both sides rejecting a power-sharing arrangement, the only offer Honduras could make would be amnesty from prosecution for Zelaya’s multiple violations of the Honduran constitution.  Zelaya would take nothing less than reinstatement, which Honduras rejects outright.

Could Zelaya return to foment a rebellion?  He’s got enough support at home to make that a real possibility.  It doesn’t take a majority or even a particularly large minority to make a successful revolution, after all.  The military would resist it — strongly — which could make this a bloody mess.  The real problem for Honduras isn’t a rebellion, but an invasion of Nicaraguan and Venezuelan troops to put Zelaya back in power and back to being a Chavez stooge.

If that happened, eyes would shift immediately to Washington to see how Barack Obama would react.  Will he make clear that the US will brook no foreign military involvement in Honduras, and back it up with a show of force in Central America?  Or will Obama waffle long enough to allow Chavez and Daniel Ortega an opening to invade Honduras?  Obama certainly has given them plenty of tacit encouragement thus far, and I suspect that Obama will do little but issue airy statements of regret in the event of a military invasion of Honduras.


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If Hondurans runs across Zelaya in a secluded location somewhere with no cameras, kill his entire group and make sure the bodies are never found.

The story ends: Zelaya walked into the jungle and was never heard from again.

If he makes it into the country, arrest him ASAP but move him around from one secret location to another rather than holding him in a prison. You can falsely claim he’s being held in a military base or something, and make sure it’s well defended so that any attack can be used as a means to deplete Honduras of as many Zelaya supporters as possible.

FloatingRock on July 18, 2009 at 2:45 PM

I feel like our own government, as it aligns itself with our declared enemies, Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua, is becoming another enemy to the American people. Being on the wrong side of all issues, it is not chance anymore. That is impossible. It is a purposeful strategy to destroy the most successful country of this age.

mile66 on July 18, 2009 at 2:52 PM

Now is this the crises we were supposed to “gird our loins” for? Or was that the previous 100 OTHER crises that have already happened.

Rightwingguy on July 18, 2009 at 3:14 PM

Zelaya had better watch his back. If Chavez determines that Zelaya’s second coup attempt is, or will be, unsuccessful, he’ll undoubtedly realize that Zelaya the martyr is far more useful to him than Zelaya the former wannabe dictator. Chavez may order his goons kill Zelaya and try to pin it on Honduras.

If so, the goons had better watch their backs, too, because Chavez might decide their continued lives are too risky for his plans.

FloatingRock on July 18, 2009 at 3:18 PM

Now is this the crises we were supposed to “gird our loins” for? Or was that the previous 100 OTHER crises that have already happened.

Rightwingguy on July 18, 2009 at 3:14 PM

As it turns out, the Obama administration itself is the crisis.

FloatingRock on July 18, 2009 at 3:19 PM

There’s a lot going on…

“Plan Caracas” para crear masacre es real
El “Plan Caracas” incluye tomas de carreteras, quemas de carros, destrucción de medios de comunicación y una masacre.
17.07.09 – Actualizado: 18.07.09 09:29am – Redacción: [email protected]

CALIFICAR
Actualmente 5/5 Estrellas.12345calificacion actual: 5 votos: 3 64 comentarios Imprimir Enviar
Tegucigalpa, Honduras
.
El “Plan Caracas”, mediante el cual el ex militar Hugo Chávez pretendería fabricar una masacre en el país, es una posibilidad real, insistieron ayer autoridades de gobierno, militares y policiales.

Los funcionarios de UnoAmérica, que aglutina decenas de organizaciones democráticas en el continente, han asegurado que lo planeado en Honduras ya se ha ejecutado en otras naciones del continente como Venezuela, Perú, Ecuador y Bolivia.

Según la información a la que tuvo acceso EL HERALDO, el objetivo militar de Chávez es provocar hechos que conmocionen la sociedad hondureña, con el fin de desestabilizar el gobierno de Roberto Micheletti.

El plan incluye la toma de carreteras, quema de vehículos, destrucción de medios de comunicación y lo más preocupante es la fabricación de una masacre durante una manifestación para responsabilizar por el hecho a los cuerpos militares y policiales.

Ayer, los representantes de UnoAmérica fueron recibidos en Casa Presidencial por el presidente Roberto Micheletti, el ministro de Defensa, Adolfo Sevilla, la ex presidenta de la CSJ, Vilma Morales, la vicecanciller Martha Lorena Alvarado y miembros de organizaciones de defensa democrática en el país.

http://www.elheraldo.hn/

TRANSLATION:

Plan Caracas which seeks to stage a massacre is real.

“Plan Caracas” includes the takeover of major roads, the burning of cars and vehicles, the attacking and or destruction of the national mass media and the staging of a massacre.

“Plan Caracas”, a proposed plot developed by Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez, which seeks to bring about a “manufactured” massacre in the our nation, “has been confirmed as a real possibility”, government authorities, including the military and police, insisted yesterday.

UnoAmérica officials, an umbrella organization which brings together dozens of democratic organizations from Latin America, has confirmed that what is planned in Honduras has already been implemented in other nations of the continent such as Venezuela, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia.

According to information obtained by this newspaper, the military objective of Hugo Chavez’s plan is to provoke a massacre that would shock Honduran society, and destabilize the government of Roberto Micheletti.

The plan includes blocking main roads, burning vehicles, attacking and destroying mass media and what is most worrying is the planned manufacture of a massacre during one of the protests in order to blame the military and the police.

Yesterday, representatives of UnoAmérica were greeted at the Presidential Palace by President Roberto Micheletti, the defense minister, Adolfo Seville, the former president of the CSJ, Vilma Morales, Vice Martha Lorena Alvarado and members of advocacy organizations in democratic country.

More to follow…

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 3:35 PM

10:19am
Injerencia . El gobierno de Honduras advirtió que de seguir la “injerencia en los asuntos exclusivos de los hondureños” por parte de algunos países latinoamericanos, solicitará “el retiro del personal de sus respectivas misiones diplomáticas”.

TRANSLATION:
12:19 EST

Interference. The Honduran Government has announced that any nation that continues to interfere in Honduran internal matters will be asked to remove all of their diplomatic personnel from their embassies.

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 3:40 PM

09:55am

Comercio. El sector empresarial organizado de Guatemala se manifestó en contra de que Honduras sea marginada del sistema económico y comercial centroamericano
http://www.elheraldo.hn/
TRANSLATION:
11:55AM est

Business. The Guatemalan Business sector is holding protests against the marginalization of Honduras from the rest of the Central American economy.

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM

09:51am
Retorno. “Estoy respetando que culmine el proceso de diálogo diplomático”, dijo Zelaya, aunque reiteró que regresará a Honduras “de una u otra forma”.

TRANSLATION:
11:51am EST
Return. “I am willing to see thorough the diplomatic effort to its end”, Zelaya said, although he reiterated that he will return to Honduras “one way or another”.

09:48am
Obstinado. El depuesto presidente Manuel Zelaya, desestimó la posición de EEUU que se opone a que regrese al país mientras no concluya un proceso de mediación.

http://www.elheraldo.hn/
11:48am EST
Obstinate. Deposed preseident Maunel Zelaya, dismissed US opposition to his return to Honduras without finishing negotiating process.

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 3:51 PM

There is a small nation
There is a small nation. It stands alone in a rough neighborhood. Although it is more democratic than its neighbors, it is criticized by them and threatened by them. These neighbors are relentless. They are trying to weaken its institutions. They are trying to incorporate the small nation into themselves. They are trying to take it over.

This small nation has relied on the support of a friend, a defender of democracy who is like a big brother protecting a little brother: The United States.

But now the small nation is worried that it may be abandoned by the United States, that it may be sacrificed.

Israel. Taiwan. Honduras.

Is it any wonder that the first two have been the first to recognize the interim government in Honduras?</blockquote>

http://ferdsblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/there-is-a-small-nation/

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 4:00 PM

Chavez needs to punish Honduras. He has too much riding on this to be thwarted.

Rumors are flying among the expat Venezuelan (anti-Chavez) community and Hondurans that a Venezuelan offensive is in process, possibly for as early as tonite or tomorrow. Details of the rumors include:

1) Venezuelan agents are infilitrating tonite through neighboring countries to prepare for (a) attacking Micheletti and the presidential administration directly and (b) taking principal roads and bridges along with trade union supporters (which demonstrations have already been announced publicly).

2) Payments are being made to military officers to switch sides and to execute a “counter-coup”. Payments are also being made to politicians to switch sides.

3) Violence is to be instigated, and chaos, creating the opportunity for some military units to take over an airport and a border region to facilitate different options for Zelaya’s return to the ground. Such violence also is intended to undermine the legitimacy of the interim regime, which to date has created unexpected local unity of response.

http://ferdsblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/rumors-vennie-offensive-tomorrow/

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Chavez has calculated that the US is sidelined militarily under Obama; it is expected that the barest pretense of legitimacy for his offensive operation will neuter the possibility of defensive aid from Palmerola. Obama’s stance has become an invitation for aggressive behavior.

http://ferdsblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/rumors-vennie-offensive-tomorrow/

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 4:08 PM

The Foro de São Paulo. A Threat to Freedom in Latin America.

The FSP has developed strategies and techniques to gain power through democratic elections. Several campaigns and political parties have been funded through PDVSA, the Venezuelan state-owned oil company, and the FARC have contributed to others. Once power is secured, there are strategies to hold on to it. One is, of course, and not surprisingly, to develop popular hatred of the “Empire” (the US), as well as class confrontation. But, beyond that, most regimes have fueled ethnic mistrust.

http://www.unoamerica.org/unoPAG/libros.php?id=5

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM

This is so f’ing unbelieveable…and a majority of Americans have now become so ignornat that they wouldn’t understand the implications of what it would mean if Obama allowed an invasion of Honduras… and a slaughter of Hondurans…that being that America is now Maxist and supportive of other Marxist countries…and they will use the same tactics on Americans… I predicet a very bloody civil war in our own future… I will not live enslaved…

CCRWM on July 18, 2009 at 4:20 PM

If this is the best Arias can do it is game over. Time to arm up and get ready for war.

02:04pm
Propuesta. Oscar Arias propuso hoy la restitución del depuesto presidente Manuel Zelaya, el adelanto de las elecciones y una amnistía para delitos políticos, según una copia de un discurso a las delegaciones entregada a la prensa.

4:04pm EST
Proposal. Oscar Arias (Costa Rica’s leftist president conducting “negotiations”) today proposed the reinstating Manuel Zelaya, early elections, and an amnesty for political crimes, according to a transcript of a speech he gave the (negotiating) delegations.

http://www.elheraldo.hn/

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM

I predicet a very bloody civil war in our own future… I will not live enslaved…

There is a middle way…

starvethebeast.net

Ragspierre on July 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Obama has the opportunity to make his bones on foreign policy on this one. Hard to imagine he’ll just stand by and let Chavez have his way but the markers are all there. I’ll bet Colombia is watching and learning.

a capella on July 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM

a capella on July 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Colombia yesterday arrested a FARC facilitator and exposed documents showing how much money the FARC gave to finance Correa (the President of Ecuador who is an avowed Communist and whom Obama recently called to congratulate). For its part, the FARC came out with a bombshell later in the day by admitting their role in financing Correa. Now the INTERPOL has been called on to investigate.

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 5:21 PM

It will be left to “Honduras and her neighbors” to resolve. In other words, Obooba will look the other way while Honduras is beaten in the street.

Akzed on July 18, 2009 at 5:33 PM

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 5:21 PM

Very nice. Were these documents taken from the guy they arrested or from the laptops they took in the FARC raid? Any thoughts on what Colombia will do if Chavez and Ortega overtly take military into Honduras?

a capella on July 18, 2009 at 5:42 PM

a capella on July 18, 2009 at 5:42 PM

Hey sorry I had a couple of my facts wrong since I got them second hand. Here is the actual and very damning story:

AP Newsbreak: Rebel video hounds Ecuador’s Correa

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_colombia_rebel_video

http://faustasblog.com/?p=14273

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 5:47 PM

a capella on July 18, 2009 at 5:42 PM

I don’t know what Colombia would do. They would probably protest loudly. Short of an overt move by any of those countries against Colombian interests there’s not much they could do. Maybe some covert aid?

I’d have to assume that any goodwill Zelaya has would be graetly diminished if he is seen as instigating a rebellion when he only has 4 months left in office.

Arias, the Costa Rican leftist president said that violence would NOT be the acceptable route for Zelaya. So…

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 5:51 PM

starvethebeast.net

Ragspierre on July 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM

Thanks… I will put my actons where my mouth is….

CCRWM on July 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM

04:11pm
Firme. El gobierno de Roberto Micheletti mantiene su posición de no aceptar que el depuesto presidente retome el poder presidencial.

Unwavering. The Government of Roberto Micheletti is firm on its commitment to keep the deposed ex president from retaking power.

04:08pm
Declaraciones. “Toda negociación tiene que pasar por el respeto a la institucionalidad”, dijo la ex presidenta de la Corte Suprema de Justicia, Vilma Morales.

Declarations. “All negotiation must be vetted by the appropriate Honduran constitutional institutions” Vilma Morales, the ex president of the Supreme Court of Justice said

04:06pm
Avances. La delegación del presidente Micheletti estaría de acuerdo en varios puntos de la propuesta, excepto el que solicita la restitución de Manuel Zelaya a la presidencia.

Progress. President Micheletti’s delegation has indicated that it is in agreement with various of Oscar Arias settlement proposal except the one that returns Zelaya to the presidency.

04:01pm
Diálogo. De acuerdo a lo publicado en medios internacionales, Zelaya habría aceptado la propuesta del presidente Oscar Arias.

Dialogue. According to published international reports, Zelaya has accepted the settlement proposal of president Oscar Arias (Costa Rica)

http://www.elheraldo.hn/

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Honduras has no choice now. They must kill Zelaya before he goes anywhere. He’s essentially declared war on the people of Honduras and the government there must protect the people. Kill Zelaya now, it’s the only option.

Don Carne on July 18, 2009 at 7:28 PM

FloatingRock on July 18, 2009 at 2:35 PM

Zelaya should be tried for treason. If found guilty – and from everything legitimate I’ve read he is guilty as sin – he should be executed. They should not have exiled him.

BrideOfRove on July 18, 2009 at 7:29 PM

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/07/024078.php

Behind Hugo’s Harassment Of Honduras
By INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:20 PM PT

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548482246461&kw=honduras

Comrades in Arms
The Honduran ‘coup’ is a victory for constitutionalism and a setback for Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez.
by Christopher Caldwell
07/27/2009, Volume 014, Issue 42
http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/754xdnsb.asp

elduende on July 18, 2009 at 7:54 PM

Barry DO something? You obviously haven’t looked at his previous track record.

GarandFan on July 18, 2009 at 9:05 PM

The Hondurans should tell Zelaya to go to hell. If Chavez, Castro, Noreiga, Obama and other commies don’t like that, too bad.

Phil Byler on July 18, 2009 at 9:26 PM

Or will Obama waffle long enough to allow Chavez and Daniel Ortega an opening to invade Honduras? Obama certainly has given them plenty of tacit encouragement thus far, and I suspect that Obama will do little but issue airy statements of regret in the event of a military invasion of Honduras.

Should this come to pass, and if it does it will very likely be with his private blessing, I think we know what Obama will be doing in private.

Joe Bloggs on July 18, 2009 at 10:50 PM

Looks like Zelaya had results already counted and certified.
http://babalublog.com/2009/07/a-page-out-of-the-chavez-leftist-in-other-words-playbook/

a capella on July 19, 2009 at 12:27 AM

Sorry, forgot the lead in.

A page out of the Chavez (leftist, in other words) Playbook
By Alberto de la Cruz, on July 18, 2009, at 8:22 am
A Spanish Catalan newspaper is reporting that Honduran authorities have seized computers found in the Presidential Palace belonging to deposed president Mel Zelaya. Taking a page right out of the leftist dictator’s handbook, these computers, according to the news report, contained the official and certified results of the illegal constitutional referendum Zelaya wanted to conduct that never took place. The results of this fraudulent vote was tilted heavily in Zelaya’s favor, ensuring he could go ahead and illegally change the constitution so he could remain in power for as long as he wanted to. ACORN, I’m sure, is taking notes.

This is the man that the OAS, the UN, and the Obama State Department want the Honduran people to reinstall as their leader.

a capella on July 19, 2009 at 12:30 AM

Picked up by usatoday.
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/article/Places,+Geography/Countries/Honduras/01D891jdUbgu5/1
From the comments on the babalublog, it sounds like this is the smoking gun.

a capella on July 19, 2009 at 12:35 AM

a capella on July 19, 2009 at 12:35 AM

I saw that report in the Honduran press earlier. I hope they allow INTERPOL to verify them. You know just like after the Colombians captured the FARCs laptops the leftists claimed they were fabrications until INTERPOL certified them.

How much legitimacy do you think Zelaya has left if he were to return to power? None.

elduende on July 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM

a capella on July 19, 2009 at 12:27 AM

Thanks for the news. Let’s hope the word gets out. Maybe HotAir can help tomorrow and/or Monday.

FloatingRock on July 19, 2009 at 12:57 AM

elduende on July 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM

Well, it sounds like their Justice Dept is ramping up to file criminal charges over this. I would imagine they would have to have 3rd party verification if they go that far. If true, this is about as blatant as anything I’ve seen. From an entertainment standpoint, I would have liked to have seen the face of the Costa Rican mediator dude when he learned about this.

a capella on July 19, 2009 at 12:58 AM

How much legitimacy do you think Zelaya has left if he were to return to power? None.

elduende on July 19, 2009 at 12:44 AM

This won’t detract from the lefts support of Zelaya one bit. The end always justifies the means with them. Obama won’t back off because of this either, unless it becomes clear, or they calculate, that once/if American’s find out, the strength and breadth of America’s opinion will damage Obama’s own legitimacy.

FloatingRock on July 19, 2009 at 1:01 AM

Columbia should hold some military exercises or move some troops around near the border with Honduras. Such a small gesture could really help Honduras out right about now.

Are you listening, Columbia? Obama administration aside, you’re both our allies. Obama won’t be around forever. Such a small gesture could make a huge difference to Honduras right about now.

What would happen to FARC’s status if Chavez and his entire power structure were destroyed and Venezuela turned away from Marxism?

FloatingRock on July 19, 2009 at 1:34 AM

around near the border with Honduras Venezuela

FloatingRock on July 19, 2009 at 1:35 AM

Or will Obama waffle long enough to allow Chavez and Daniel Ortega an opening to invade Honduras?

That.

Trov on July 19, 2009 at 2:40 AM

Has this hit the MSM yet? Or will they ignore it and consider it a plant by the current administration?

Cindy Munford on July 19, 2009 at 2:46 AM

http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56798&Itemid=79
A little global union activity favoring the Chavez flavor of democracy.

a capella on July 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Mmmm. I’m starting to smell what Obama’s cooking for dinner, 2012.

Get yer guns cleaned and keep your ammo fresh and dry kids. We’re gonna roast us some skunk.

Spiritk9 on July 20, 2009 at 12:08 AM