Walter Cronkite and the national will
posted at 10:35 am on July 18, 2009 by Doctor Zero
Walter Cronkite’s death on Friday evening will doubtless fill the weekend news programs with career retrospectives and fond tributes. He was an extraordinarily accomplished newsman, and a transitional figure for the rise of television news. It is the nature of celebrities that their lives are celebrated when they pass on, so there’s nothing surprising about Cronkite receiving far more public honors than the world’s greatest baker, or neurosurgeon, could expect. There are also strong words of criticism to be spoken at Cronkite’s national funereal. He achieved much during his career, and many other print, broadcast, and Web outlets will spend the weekend recounting these achievements. His most unhealthy achievement was finding the limits of American will, ending an era of confidence that began with victory over the Axis in World War II. Some would say that confidence needed to be shattered. If you have a Ouija board, I can put you in touch with a couple of million dead Cambodians who might beg to differ.
For the conservative student of recent history, and of course for the surviving veterans of Vietnam, the nadir of Cronkite’s career was his reporting in the wake of the Tet Offensive. For the younger reader who might not be familiar with this event, the Tet Offensive was a massive, coordinated attack on all the major cities of South Vietnam, during the normally quiet Vietnamese New Year celebrations, in January and February of 1968. The U.S. Military had been making public statements of Communist weakness, so the large-scale attacks seriously undermined the military’s credibility with the American public. From a military standpoint, Tet was a disaster for the Communists, who were estimated to have suffered over 8000 casualties, severely damaging the Vietcong insurgency in South Vietnam. The operation produced no strategic gains for the North Vietnamese, who had to compensate for the decimation of the Vietcong by committing more regular army troops to subsequent combat operations. It was a huge propaganda victory, however, as Cronkite – a newsman with respect and influence far beyond any single figure in journalism today – declared the Vietnam War to be unwinnable. “We are mired in a stalemate that could only be ended by negotiation, not victory,” America’s Anchorman declared.
Cronkite’s editorial about the war represented a considerable departure from the previous journalistic ethic of reporting objective facts, and allowing the audience to make up their own minds about their meaning. It certainly wasn’t an ethic observed with unshakeable fidelity before him, but Cronkite’s stature made his reporting on Vietnam a significant moment in journalistic history. President Johnson famously declared, “if I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost Middle America.” The military found itself unable to sell its strategically correct assessment of Tet as a defeat for North Vietnam to the public. Consequently, their request for a troop surge, to finish the job in Vietnam, was denied by the President, who became despondent and largely stopped communicating with the media. In the wake of Cronkite’s declaration of inevitable defeat in Vietnam, public support for the war dropped fifteen to twenty points in public opinion polls… in a matter of months.
If any of this sounds familiar to you, it should. The congressional Democrats of 2006 remembered the Tet Offensive very well. You might have thought Harry Reid looked like an imbecile, desperately searching for a live al-Qaeda commander he could surrender to, and you might have considered the “General Betray Us” Moveon.org swill on the eve of the Iraq troop surge to be mindlessly stupid… but they were just trying to reproduce what Cronkite did for the North Vietnamese, the way a cargo cult hopes to bring gifts from the sky gods by building crude replicas of airports.
Cronkite’s reporting on the Tet Offensive was a signature moment in the evolution of asymmetrical warfare. The Vietcong resembled modern terrorists in many ways – they even had suicide bombers. North Vietnam realized, by the spring of 1968, that they could never defeat the American military in battle. The NVA field commander, General Giap, was said to be despondent over the failure of the Tet offensive, and felt his situation was likely to deteriorate even further. Then, as now, American soldiers were proving highly adaptable, and were developing increasing skill at countering enemy tactics, along with a naturally improved knowledge of Vietnamese terrain. The gallantry and skill of Vietnam’s soldiers paved the way for America’s astonishing battlefield victories in Operations Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom, much as tomorrow’s soldiers will study the long and painful story of the Iraqi occupation, to perfect their counterinsurgency tactics. The soldiers and commanders of 1968 were learning, too.
I will leave it to military historians to debate whether a full-scale surge of troops in the wake of Tet would have secured the defeat of North Vietnam. For myself, I think it highly likely. We’ll never know, because the age of modern terrorism – tactics designed to sap civilian will and destroy political support for a powerful military – began when Walter Cronkite took to the air on February 27, 1968, and informed the American public it should not “have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds.”
Walter Cronkite was not an active agent of the North Vietnamese, in the sense Jane Fonda was. He spend the rest of his life steadfastly insisting his editorial judgment on Vietnam represented his honest and heartfelt opinion. When measuring an event of such enormous importance, it hardly matters what his deeply felt personal reasons were. What he did not do was simply and clearly report on the outcome of the Tet offensive, and allow his viewers to decide what they made of it. The Communists came to understand the value of their propaganda victory, with General Giap later saying “The most important result of the Ted offensive was it made you de-escalate the bombing, and it brought you to the negotiation table. It was, therefore, a victory… The war was fought on many fronts. At that time the most important one was American public opinion.” (Contrary to Internet rumors that will probably start floating around again this weekend, Giap did not specifically credit Walter Cronkite with making this “victory” possible.)
Cronkite’s career saw the rise of advocacy journalism in the modern sense, along with the birth of terror warfare. The two developments are not unrelated. Terrorism benefits from access to a media that sees itself as international and “open-minded,” rather than aligned with the patriotic interests of its mother country. Journalists of Edward R. Murrow’s day would have named al-Qaeda killers as vermin, without hesitation, and applauded American soldiers for exterminating them. Cronkite decided the vermin were invincible. His descendants give interviews where they proudly state they would not warn American troops of an impending terror attack, pass along terrorist propaganda and doctored photographs as news, and dispatch reporters to search for signs of defeat when victory is imminent… provided a President of the wrong party sits in the White House, of course. Say this much for Cronkite: he didn’t care that Johnson had a (D) after his name. To Keith Olbermann, nothing else would matter.
After Cronkite came the deluge. Consider the trajectory of his successor, Dan Rather, who began his career lying about schoolchildren applauding the assassination of JFK, and ended it by trying to pass off falsified documents in a partisan hit job on President Bush during the 2004 elections. Cronkite was a powerful and accomplished newsman who made a fateful decision to become the news, instead of reporting it. His replacement was a ridiculous hack. Whatever you think of Walter Cronkite, it seems clear that his profession became smaller, and less trustworthy, after he passed through it. We would be wise to remember the lesson he taught us about the limits of American will in the Age of Terror. It’s better for us to win our battles fast and hard, and let the media weep for the enemy, than give the media time to dictate our strategy, and declare victory impossible.
Update (AP): Oblivious to the travesty of Cronkite’s Tet editorializing, The One sonorously declares that the most trusted man in America “never let us down.”
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the nation as it sits now could never have fought WW2 and will likely not face WW3 well….
sven10077 on July 18, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Great post.
Journalism didn’t die in 2008.
More like 19-seventy something
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM
His opining on the Tet Offensive was his worst moment. I wish he recognized that and admitted it. Walter was a great news man, far less flawed that Dan Rather, but he messed up on that story.
I think he was great though during the Apollo missions.
Mr. Joe on July 18, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Dan Rather was a failure too.
Pwned by Allahpundit
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Bingo. That’s it in a nutshell.
Oh, and Cronkite was the original mentor to Rather. The hack’s hack.
av8tr on July 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Superb comment by RKV at American Digest:
drunyan8315 on July 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM
The above thread does well in many parts, but I don’t think it goes far enough to explain the pure hatred for a man many believe was a traitor, and says nothing about his later years in his ideas to give up some of our national sovereignty to help create a one world government.Listening to this last era of his life and finding out that these notions went back to the 70s is deeply chilling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2br0Qj8IFw
For these things I truly despise the man.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Walter Cronkite published an anti-Iraq war screed in 2007.
He called the war illegal, and said (among other great wisdoms):
So Walter continued his anti-warness, and the Iraqi people can be thankful he no longer held sway with the American public.
MayBee on July 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Obama, once again speaking hidden truths. The “us” he refers to were/are the radical, anti-war leftists who are now running this country.
katy on July 18, 2009 at 10:52 AM
I have been struggling to understand my reaction to the news of Cronkite’s death. This post, and a few others have helped me find the words. He lived. He was famous. He had a long life. He died.
But there was that one moment when Cronkite made a choice, made a decision, reached a conclusion that the war in South Vietnam was no longer worth fighting. He could have chosen, as George Bush did in Iraq, that we must do everything possible to win. Instead, Cronkite wrote it off as a lost cause, as did many others. He could have chosen to be a cheerleader for the country, inspiring people to do their best, not give up, never surrender. Instead, too many self centered liberals chose self gratification. Cronkite validated their choice.
I fear the democrats will re-create the same scenario in Iraq. Iran will escalate their efforts to hit their enemy in Iraq, and the democrats will again chose to write off the effort, and the Iraqi people as not being worthy of further support. The democrats have already said that Iraqi must do more, and US forces have been doing too much.
Re-visit “The Matrix” trilogy. Astoundingly prophetic. In disk one, the hero learns he has the power to create a universe of his choosing. In disk two, Agent Smith is infected with ‘terrible purpose’ as are the Obama cultists who want to remake their universe into the ideal. In disk three we see the results of that remaking. In disk two, we are told by the architect that ‘choice’ is an anomaly that requires correction. Individual choice unbalances the perfect system. Thus the necessity of Agent Smith.
Walter Cronkite delineates the conundrum. You have free will to chose as you see fit. The choices you make, determine your future.
Skandia Recluse on July 18, 2009 at 10:54 AM
You’re dead on with that one katy
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 10:54 AM
sonorously…wow…an English professor..LOL…I’m impressed!
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM
I’ve always been disturbed by the lack of confidence whore-nolists have for their own nation.
Maybe it’s less of a lack of confidence
more of an outright antipathy
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Never let us down…
I’m sure Cronkite paid his dues at some point, but he’s not famous for being a “journalist”. He had a voice and demeanor people liked and trusted, a sort of fatherly/grandfatherly image.
He was a television celebrity, and he used his “trust” to push his own views on people. Sure, most of the time it was subtle, but it was always there.
It’s sad that how a person says something is more important than what they have to say.
Turn of the television…
reaganaut on July 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM
He may have been a good journalist but during the Vietnam war he was a detriment to the country. I was in Vietnam with an army infantry division during the TET Offensive of 1968 and i can say with some authority that the United States military won every battle and throughly defeated North Vietnam’s efforts to turn the tide of the war. Even North Vietnamese general Giap admitted their failure but stated that the American people would win it for him. With the help of the likes of Cronkite, Kerry, a liberal congress and a large gaggle of protesting leftists and hippies we did in fact lose. As with any human being I’m sorry he had to die . . . but he’s not worthy of any special tribute.
rplat on July 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM
I consider Walter Cronkite to be America’s first public Moonbat…
Fuzzlenutter on July 18, 2009 at 11:02 AM
As I posted in one of the other WC threads I didn’t even know he was still alive. The thing I do notice is that he conveniently died at a time when congress is pushing though health care. This allows them to hide behind all the WC tributes that will dominate the media. Even HA isn’t immune with at least four threads dedicated to WC coverage.
jmarcure on July 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM
I was ten in 1968, and remember watching Walter Cronkite each night. As a child, he was like listening to a wise old grandfather.
Then, as an adult (especially after he retired), and I would hear or read about his comments on the US, I thought of him more like the grandfather you’re embarassed about.
As for the BigO saying Cronkite, “never let us down,” I wouldn’t expect anything less of him. Especially since Cronkite was no different than Jimmy Carter or himself.
moonsbreath on July 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM
I see now why the democrats want to paint Rush as the leader of the GOP. Because they honestly see the Media as leadership material.
I like Rush and Brit Hume and other conservative comentators. I just dont see them as leaders.
Im sure the left wishes someone like Olberdummy was a leader. As for me I dont think he should be allowed outside with out his nurse.
Leaders DO actions they dont simply spout off their beliefs.
William Amos on July 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM
To the people his actions helped injure or kill, like another
famous anti-war liberal, Hanoi Jane, may they meet each other soon in some dark corner of hell.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Why can’t these socialist ex-celeb’s just quietly pass away w/o fanfare?
OmahaConservative on July 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Walter Cronkite, the first mainstream media reporter to leave report the news journalism for reporting left wing opinionism.
He is the father of the bastard journal-opinionism of TV “news” reporters of today.
Glad he is gone, too bad he didn’t take a few of the sh!ts we have in the MSM currently with him…like 95% of them.
“Hmm……maybe she is pregnant?”
BillaryMcBush on July 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM
Hey, FOX more tha balances out Cronkite’s “editorializing” over Tet with their incessant pimping of all positions GOP/conservative. So cry me a river.
Grow Fins on July 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM
“The war is lost”- Cronkite, 1968
“The war is lost”- Reid, 2007
Fletch54 on July 18, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Cronkite was an institution in his time. With the internet and the availability of information from all points of view, that would be impossible today. Rather was a Cronkite clone. Rather’s problems were that sources were able to distinquish between fact and fiction and Cronkite did not have that liability to deal with.
volsense on July 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Cronkite was no different than Rather or Couric. We just didn’t know he was lying to us. Now we know that Rather and Couric are lying.
roux on July 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Back then wasnt such a divide in the Media. The “Big 3″ had no problem pimping JFK but they werent overt about it. Now with Cable and all other other ways to get news I find iit humerous that your upset that ONE outlet in the vast media wasteland is conservative ?
William Amos on July 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Birds of a feather…both liberal scum.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Great metaphor of “fool me once…”
ericdijon on July 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM
They did a pretty good “overtly” pimping for JFK as I remember. In fact, it reminds me EXACTLY of the Obama crapola.Michelle is a “Black Jackie” it’s Camelot 2
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM
Great piece Doctor Zero. Advocacy journalism as what we see by the MSM daily was started by none other than CBS and Cronkite. Whether people like to admit it or not, most American watch little to no news, and expect to see facts from these “reporters.” Instead we see a large scale attack on conservatives, our military, and the endless devotion to liberalism.
jencab on July 18, 2009 at 11:14 AM
It was SEE BS NEWS well before Blather replaced Cronkite.
OmahaConservative on July 18, 2009 at 11:15 AM
Well put.
With the Democrats it’s “our enemies first” and America second.
Mojave Mark on July 18, 2009 at 11:16 AM
How do Barry’s Balls taste? Inquiring minds want to know.
BillaryMcBush on July 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM
:sigh: Ok, I’ll bite – it’s Saturday.
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
Do I need to point out that Fox(news) and Cronkite were not contemporaries?
Do I need to point out that Fox(news) is one out of hundreds of cable channels?
Do I need to point out that in Croknkite’s prime you had 3 networks to choose from (if you were lucky)?
Pimping? Grow up.
Why does every liberal argument sound like it comes from my kids?
reaganaut on July 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM
My initial heartfelt reaction was the same as it will be when Ted Kennedy dies: too late for America, waaaayyy too late. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
bill30097 on July 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM
The urn was smashed in 2008.
OneGyT on July 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM
The question that must be asked when someone makes a statement like Cronkite did regarding the Tet offensive is: did he knowingly make a false statement or did he simply make a mistake by not doing his due diligence? If he made a mistake I would chalk it up to being stupid and lazy. If he knowingly made a false statement he is a liar. I don’t think Cronkite was stupid or lazy. That makes him a liar.
By the way, Rather is lazy, stupid and a liar.
Brian Mallard on July 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM
CBS News was know as Cronkite’s Bull S#!t news in our house.
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Because the maturity level required to be a liberal is 9
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM
room temperature IQ (in Alaska in January)
bill30097 on July 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM
Which is part of the challenge in managing a war in a democracy. The incremental commitment of resources from the mid 50′s to the late 60′s resulted in a cost that Americans believed was too high. Tet upended the military’s assurances that the end was soon-to-come. Regardless of Cronkite Americans would have been unlikely to sustain the level of commitment for another decade or more.
dedalus on July 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM
Cronkite was a poor second place at CBS to Murrow and Cronkite knew it.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM
If it was a mistake he would have apologized after the killing fields. He never did. He knew he was lying but did it to further the “cause”.
bill30097 on July 18, 2009 at 11:20 AM
BillaryMcBush on July 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Cronkite was an icon and an anachronism of a little fettered liberal politic age, he hardly represented the middle of America.
Imagine four decades of dominate, nearly unstoppable liberal damage and think about the inferiority complex the GOP has.
Cronkite could spew his less than objective rant about the Vietnam war all he wants too but it was Johnson who was the liberal in charge and it was he who appreciated the opportunity to give up and it was he who literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and it was he who through weakness is responsible to for the needless loss of many thousands of American lives.
Speakup on July 18, 2009 at 11:21 AM
I was going to say that he reminde me of myself when I was young, 9, but I won’t engage the foolish or ignorant.
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Bravo! What an EXCELLENT post! Bravo!! It’s been quite awhile since I’ve read something so well written and reasoned.
Redhead Infidel on July 18, 2009 at 11:22 AM
I can’t be alone in this experience – How many others went to SI Newhouse (or some other communications brainwashing lab) and took a Journalism or Media class where Cronkite was the featured phone-in? You wrote out submittal questions ahead of time (like Omaba’s townhalls) and crawled into his lap waiting for his answers to the cherry-picked questions. The questions asked were empty and baseless and the answers were likewise empty and baseless. I got an A both times.
ericdijon on July 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Will the MSM blame Bush for Cronkites death?
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:24 AM
My cousin was killed in Vietnam in 1968. I will never forgive Cronkite, or others of his ilk, for making Robert’s sacrifice vain. The fact that I was brought up to be a lady is the only thing restraining my tongue.
DrMagnolias on July 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Amen, it has been said before but bears repeating: Dr. Zero, if you are not getting paid for your insight you missed your calling.
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM
Will Obama attend his funeral? Perhaps Biden. Will Biden announce, “Walter, stand up,get up here Walter”
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:29 AM
I arrived in Vietnam with 72 men, on March 19th, 1968, shortly after Tet. Twelve came home in flag covered caskets. I was one of a half dozen that never got a scratch. We never lost a battle. We would slog through a VC ambush, then turn around and go through the gauntlet again and keep doing it until we killed them, or made them hide.
Cronkite is partly responsible for undermining the will and courage to win the war. I can never think of him in good terms.
Star20 on July 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Will Sheila Jackson Lee ask for a National Day of Mourning and a lowering of flags for Cronkite?
OmahaConservative on July 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM
Cronkite set the pattern they all follow. The weekend will be a Jackson repeat in the MSM because they idolize the man who stepped up the power of the MSM by “winning” the war for them – given that they were on the other side, and have been ever since.
I grew up after that, and the left has always held Vietnam as a victory – it took me a lot of years to figure out why they did that. They would say the victory was “ending” the war, but that wasn’t the issue – it was the Communist victory. That’s why they supported Cuba, and, all revisionism aside, supported the Soviets against the US.
The MSM weren’t just “reporters” anymore, now they’re movers and shakers, and they’re moving us places we really don’t want to go – they don’t either, they just don’t know it yet. Here’s hoping the end of the monopolistic MSM comes before the end of the USA.
Merovign on July 18, 2009 at 11:33 AM
This is one of the best posts I have ever read on this site. It should be required reading for every student.
dentalque on July 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM
In his later years, Cronkite was sighted by the left for his 30+ years of tyranny in supporting a one world government, as well as his views to legalize all drug use and his embrace of global warming.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Well another week in which I won’t watch any news programs. YAWN!!!
MaiDee on July 18, 2009 at 11:40 AM
I’ve always hated Cronkite for his Vietnam Traitor thing, but the more I learn about him the more I wish he had died decades earlier and of something much more painful.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Yet today Vietnam is progressing toward a market economy and is an international trading partner. Cuba on the other hand is still a communist mess.
dedalus on July 18, 2009 at 11:50 AM
I will never forgive Cronkite, or Kerry for that matter.
I find spitting on soldiers who have spilled their blood for this country highly offensive. They created and fueled that kind of unwarranted hatred.
How the MSM portrayed and embellished what was going on at Abu Guraib mirrored Cronkite’s biased editorializing of the Vietnam War, and yielded the same results.
He is the leftist journalist’s hero, not mine.
fogw on July 18, 2009 at 11:51 AM
dedalus, I would think that Vietnam progressing toward a market economy in 1970 with less dead innocents would have been a better thing.
But what the Hell do I know.
Merovign on July 18, 2009 at 11:57 AM
I grew up with Cronkite on the tube every night — he was unquestionably the most trusted newsman in the country at that time and as such held a huge influence on public opinion. It can be argued that more than any other single man, he was responsible for our
losingleaving the Vietnam War. He abused his position of trust by declaring Tet a stalemate and the war lost. Thank God no one single media personality holds that much influence these days. Was he a top-notch reporter? Absolutely. Did he abuse his position? Shamefully so. Millions of deaths followed our departure from S.E. Asia. No tears for Cronkite being shed here.infidel4life on July 18, 2009 at 12:04 PM
Cronkite tragic flaw was hubris. He crossed the line from reporting to pontificating. Instead of telling the facts, he presumed to tell viewers what it meant. It started a decline. Many Americans don’t want to bother to think about facts–they just want to be told what it means and thus empower those in the media.
It’s all about power.
goddessoftheclassroom on July 18, 2009 at 12:06 PM
The Vietnam War should have never been fought.
It was a travesty from the get go.
Yes, 56,000 men died for what?
Iraq was justified in every sense. Vietnam was a mistake.
rickyricardo on July 18, 2009 at 12:07 PM
OT, but the deceitful behavior that Uncle Walter “legitimized” has infected an institution I thought was immune to it. I love the Smithsonian’s Air & Space magazine, and my subscription was a gift from a (late) Father-in-law who was a man at arms in his youth. A&S just ran a feature on 20 or so famous heads-of-state who were military pilots.
Number one was Bush the Elder. Guess what head of state that flew the F-102 “Widow-maker”, was not included!
Consider my subscription cancelled, you bastards.
drunyan8315 on July 18, 2009 at 12:09 PM
***
I was a 23 year old Army Draftee from 1964–1966. As a graduate engineer I was sent to White Sands Missile Range to work on radars and missile launchers–not into combat. It was obvious to me and to most of the other G.I.’s I met that something really stupid was going on.
***
President Lyndon Johnson (the first and last Democrat I ever voted for) and Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamera were too stupid to win the Vietnam War. They kept feeding our military into the “meat grinder” without a plan to win the war in a few months.
***
I expected to see every soldier put on landing craft and put ashore North of Haiphong Harbor–Inchon landing style–while the Air Force and Navy devastated real targets and isolated Vietnam. The war would have been over quickly and we would have lost a few thousand persons–not 66,000 killed.
***
Wars are not “touchy–feely” actions–fight them to win or stay out of them. I never would have believed that the U.S.A. would be so stupid as to fight on the enemy’s terms and take casualties for 10 years. I never saw the difference in shooting, stabbing, clubbing, grenading, bombing, or nuking the enemy soldiers–the dead never complain about how they were killed.
***
John Bibb
***
rocketman on July 18, 2009 at 12:09 PM
In that I partly agree. We needed to confront communism yes but Veitnam was not the best choice for us to do it in.
Really Truman blew it when he refused to back the Nationalist Chinese against Mao. That really was the first and biggest domino to fall.
William Amos on July 18, 2009 at 12:10 PM
Oh noes! Darth Cheney’s double sooper-secret CIA assassination squad finally got to Cronkite!
Insomniac on July 18, 2009 at 12:12 PM
ALL of the Doctor Zero posts are just like this one; insightful, carefully written, and thought-provoking.
Also, anyone interested in a different (non-pc) guide to history should also read this book.
Then, go into the bibliography that’s included, and read the source material.
The Vietnam stuff, especially, shows a whole different side to a war that we won, (military,) and then gave up on.
massrighty on July 18, 2009 at 12:17 PM
I retired from the army in 1981 after 23 years and two tours in Vietnam. I remember more than 40 friends and acquaintances whose names are on that wall in DC. And, I for one will never forgive those leftist SOB’s that worked to make my job harder.
Cronkite, Fonda, Kerry, and others all hated me and my kind. Someday I hope to urinate on all their graves.
Special Forces Grunt on July 18, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Michelle – please hire Dr Zero before someone else does and we lose him forever.
Great post. Fair, balanced, and faithful to the facts.
DeweyWins on July 18, 2009 at 12:20 PM
And, they would have been there faster if communism had not been allowed to cover the whole country.
Or, should we have similarly allowed Germany, or Korea, to go communist, and then waited quietly while they “progressed” toward a market economy.
massrighty on July 18, 2009 at 12:21 PM
The Vietnam War should have never been fought.
It was a travesty
from the get gobecause the media portrayed a war we were winning into a war we had already lost.rickyricardo on July 18, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Don’t believe it? Just ask Ho Chi Minh …..
fogw on July 18, 2009 at 12:22 PM
More like 3. A 9 year old may be able to read and thus learn but the 3 year old can only spout what they hear.
jmarcure on July 18, 2009 at 12:27 PM
You would think that this would rate as an infraction of some sort………..
………… and the MSM wonders why they are going out of business.
Another great post, Doc.
Seven Percent Solution on July 18, 2009 at 12:31 PM
FoxNews is doing a real fluff piece on him right now.
OmahaConservative on July 18, 2009 at 12:32 PM
Walter Cronkite was an evil man and has the blood of millions on his hands. At this moment he is writhing in torment as Satan pokes, prods and burns his living flesh in the lowest circle of hell. Hundreds of my friends died because of him. He will scream in torment for eternity – while I smile and whistle a jaunty tune.
(I really dislike this guy.)
lonesomecharlie on July 18, 2009 at 12:36 PM
This thread, and others like it, point to the problem of perception becoming reality.
The more sinister members of the left have learned this well; it weaves through a lot of what gets done to marginallize opposing viewpoints.
My favorite example:
Gerald Ford was a noted athlete. He was an all-star in high school and college, and recieved offers from two professional football teams.
Once, just once, he slipped on the ladderway of an airplane.
Chevy Chase built a career on portraying him as a stumbling, falling down fool.
What does this have to do with Cronkite. Plenty. When we allow these perceptions to become reality, as it applies to our side of the political argument, then our arguments themselve lose some potency in some peoples minds.
Hence….
“Bush is an idiot.”
“Rush Limbaugh is an addict.”
“[fill in name here] is a hypocrite.”
“I can see Russia from my house.”
All part of a plan of attack; weaken the spokesman, weaken the argument.
We need to stand firm and fast, with reason and logic, in the face of these attacks.
massrighty on July 18, 2009 at 12:38 PM
lol..good point
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 12:42 PM
The problem in Vietnam was that communism became linked to nationalism and self-determination. Communism failed but the Vietnamese were left to figure out their own solution.
By the time of Tet, it seems unlikely that there was going to be a bloodless transition to unified and functioning Vietnam. We fought for another 7 years. After we left in 1975, Vietnam implemented communism for about a decade before it began introducing market reforms in 1986.
Re: Germany, we did let much of it go communist and waited about 40 years for it to collapse.
dedalus on July 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM
I graduated high school in 1983, so I barely remember the Vietnam War. Probably wouln’t remember it at all if a neighbor hadn’t been killed there, and that sticks out in my mind. As a Gen Xer from the Reagan years, and therefore a conservative, and having an MA in history, I look at that baby boomer generation and wonder what the hell happened to them? How is it the Greatest Generation who defeated Japan and Germany produced such a worthless generation. I will be glad when they are all gone. I remember how the libs screeched “it’s another Vietnam!!!” when we sent troops to Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, etc. Jeez, give it a rest already!! And here the boomers are, after their first failed “War on Poverty” under LBJ, they’re trying to do it again!! Isn’t insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Cronkite, while not a boomer, was the epitome of a liberal putz and he is responsible for this state-run propaganda machine known as the “mainstream media” that we have today. After watching Fox New’s glorification of this man (can’t even begin to imagine what the msm is doing right now) I was pretty disgusted. This posting cheers me to know I’m not alone in my opinion of this man.
Special K on July 18, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Excellent post, Doctor Zero. Cronkite did a great deal of damage to this nation (which is why I didn’t bother participating in the memorial threads, as I had nothing goo dot say about him). His legacy has been twisted by the left, as they are want to do, but the stain on our culture that came because of him will cause many to suffer. He did the US no favors and will not be missed by me.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Nice to hear a “kid” make some sense. LOL I’m a Boomer, and America has NEVER had a more worthless selfish rotten generation than my generation. The high point for most of my generation was 4 days wallowing in the mud like pigs on an up-state NY farm stoned out of their minds. That should tell you everything.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Thanks for sharing that, kid.
Now tell us again why CNN is superior to Faux News.
Del Dolemonte on July 18, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Glad you didn’t take offense at what I wrote. I know not all boomers are screwed up; afterall, El Rushbo is a boomer. But, overall, yeah, you guys are pretty messed up. My generation (Palin, Santorum, Jindal, Pence, etc.) came of age politically under the Gipper. That whole Woodstock/hippy thing is just beyond my comprehension . . .
Special K on July 18, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Take offense to it?? What I’ve just written I’ve said for years. You are quite correct in your analysis of my generation, I know it’s mostly crap. I also know that we’re getting too old to fight the up-coming fight that you and the generations after will have to fight. With Obama-care at least you won’t have our toothless, diaper wearing butts hanging on forever, bleeding your generation dry lon Social Security. That’s the one good thing about Obama care.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 1:06 PM
After we left in 1975….
After congress cut the funding for our troops still there, and we had to leave, and the men and women we’d been fighting with, and for, were overun…
Then, 10-11 years of full on communism.
Followed by moving toward “market reforms” (which is just blending in enough capitalism to keep the rotten ship of communism afloat)
My point is this;
Capitalism, and political freedom, is inherently better than communism, even with some pseudo-capitalism blended in.
Our shame should not be that we fought a war in Vietnam, but rather that we fought it wrong, won anyway, and then left, abandoning our allies.
massrighty on July 18, 2009 at 1:06 PM
As a boomer who has served his country, put himself through college, had a successful career running a business, raised three sons and put them through college and has never worn a tie-dyed T-shirt or smoked a joint, I say to both of you ……….
Go Fuck Yourself.
All boomers weren’t flower children, some of us led purposeful and productive lives. I am sick and tired of being pigeonholed because half of my generation never grew up.
fogw on July 18, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I am 100% with you on that. In fact, the list could get pretty long, pretty quickly (Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, …)
UltimateBob on July 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Obviously you can’t look at a generation as anything more than from your own life. If you look at the overall generation, as compared to just one generation before, and had any way possible to see things on a scale broader than you obviously can, the generational difference would appear stark, even to someone like yourself.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Our half went to work and began businesses and the other half took over the government. Now the spoiled brats that spent the 60′s and 70′s induling themselves are trying to run the mature half how they should live.
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Just remember that the ‘Greatest Generation’ elected FDR four, count ‘em, four times. That shows us that they weren’t the greatest all of the time.
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 1:24 PM
The REAL sad ones, the aging hippie. Gray hair, pony tail, an earring, and a self satisfied smug look on the face for a lifetime accomplishing nothing.
The aging hippie woman isn’t any better. Same dress from 1969, long gray hair turning white. Braided hair under her arm pits, and the legs have the hair parted. Same rancid smell as her “old man.”
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM
It also showed however they would support the President even when it was a deadly war the 2nd deadliest in US history.
FDR simply lucked out in that Hitler and the Japanese came along. He looked good at that time.
William Amos on July 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM
another good point…but still light years better than boomers.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 1:28 PM
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