Great news: Amazon remotely deleting books from users’ Kindles
posted at 4:38 pm on July 18, 2009 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Most of you will have already read about this at InstaGlenn or elsewhere but I want to use our little platform here to help make the publicity as painful as possible so that they’ll never do it again. I was set to splurge on the DX for my mom’s birthday; now I’m leaning towards Broadway tickets. If there’s a more sensational example in recent years of a company with an up-and-coming product shooting itself in the foot, I’d like to know what it is.
The books that ended up being flushed down the memory hole by Big Brother Bezos, incidentally? “Animal Farm” and “1984.”
An Amazon spokesman, Drew Herdener, said in an e-mail message that the books were added to the Kindle store by a company that did not have rights to them, using a self-service function. “When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers’ devices, and refunded customers,” he said.
Amazon effectively acknowledged that the deletions were a bad idea. “We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances,” Mr. Herdener said…
Justin Gawronski, a 17-year-old from the Detroit area, was reading “1984” on his Kindle for a summer assignment and lost all his notes and annotations when the file vanished. “They didn’t just take a book back, they stole my work,” he said.
Property law experts are using this as an object lesson on the difference between ownership rights and digital licenses, but how relevant is that in this case really? Quote:
Amazon’s published terms of service agreement for the Kindle does not appear to give the company the right to delete purchases after they have been made. It says Amazon grants customers the right to keep a “permanent copy of the applicable digital content.”
The counterargument, per Instapundit’s wife, is that Amazon’s actually protecting property rights by yanking stuff that violates copyright out of people’s hands. Technically true, but commercial law has traditionally let purchasers of stolen goods keep them so long as they made the purchase in “good faith.” Click here and scroll down for a legal explanation of the term or see, e.g., sections 1-201(9) and 2-403 of the Uniform Commercial Code. If the holder of the Orwell copyright wants justice, by all means let him sue Amazon and the unlicensed publisher of the digital books for damages. That’s the surest way to get Bezos and company to more closely police the copyright status of books being sold in their Kindle store. Why they’re not already doing that is frankly unfathomable to me, but doubly unfathomable is them reaching into your virtual bookshelf to forcibly repurchase a book you’ve already bought. Exit question: Is this a dealbreaker for would-be Kindle purchasers?
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »
they need this program for the recovery.gov site.
rob verdi on July 18, 2009 at 4:40 PM
You have a mom, AP?
:)
Bob's Kid on July 18, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Kindler’s List? (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)
I prefer to read my books the old fashioned way–with ink stains on my fingertips.
robblefarian on July 18, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Count me in as another potential Kindle customer who will now rethink such a purchase. Color me old-fashioned, but I like to own the items I purchase.
Ryan Garns on July 18, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Can we get them to delete these idiots in Washington from our Congress?
jimmy2shoes on July 18, 2009 at 4:43 PM
“Most of you will have already read about this at InstaGlenn or elsewhere…”
I come here first. If it’s not here, it’s not news. Your site stats must be telling you a different story.
Leonard210 on July 18, 2009 at 4:44 PM
And ON topic, I’ll buy a kindle when I can buy books PERMANENTLY and store them on my external hard drive to put them on and off the kindle as I see fit. And when I can download books from any source that I want to to do the same. Until then I’ll go to one of my 7 bookshelves and get one made of paper.
It irks the heck out of me when Apple tells me that I can’t play music I bought from them on my new computer because it’s already been authorized on the maximum number of computers–most of which I haven’t owned in years. This is much worse.
Bob's Kid on July 18, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Can Amazon make the Stimulus bill disappear?
ICBM on July 18, 2009 at 4:45 PM
It bothers me. I’m on the fence. Due to purchase shortly but have concerns about font sizes and now this bit of rude theft from amazon.
I don’t like these kind of surprises. I’m firmly in the purchased in good faith camp and don’t delete content without addressing it with me first. No surprises.
tuffy on July 18, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Come on, people. Amazon only did this to celebrate the ascension of well-known moron, affirmative action baby, and property rights hater Sonia Sotomayor to the SCOTUS. It was a party favor for the left.
Just wait until you see what Google does! They don’t dabble in party favors.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Yes.
I will also look for an alternative to Amazon on general principals. Couldn’t they run it by their attorneys first?
horatio on July 18, 2009 at 4:49 PM
I’ve got a Sony bookreader. No wireless connection so Sony can’t delete anything off my book. I just checked the Sony Bookstore and 1984 is available but Animal Farm isn’t yet. Lots of other stuff by Orwell. I too like having a physical paper book in my hand. OTOH though it’s great to be able to pick up a little thing like the reader stick it into my go bag and just…..go.
Oldnuke on July 18, 2009 at 4:50 PM
I’m far from a Luddite, but I prefer my books to be ink on paper. Much harder to delete them that way.
rbj on July 18, 2009 at 4:50 PM
I’m with Leonard. There are a handful of blogs I hit every day, several times a day. HA, American Thinker, AoS, and Watts Up With That. The last one, for those who don’t know, is a AGW skeptic’s site. Tons of great information there, and the comments are usually just as informative. Lots of scientists go there, and my comments are far more rare than here, due to my inability to add to the conversation. Not that I add much here, but you know what I’m sayin’…
As for the Kindle: I’d been considering it, but waiting on prices to come down. Reconsidering it as of right now.
bikermailman on July 18, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Amazon’s problem isn’t its customers’ problem. It needed to make restitution to the rights holder on its own; Amazon messed up, the problem belongs to Amazon.
In the wake of its mess up, good customer service would dictate that Amazon send each of the customers a hard copy edition of the book via 1 day mail, without charge.
obladioblada on July 18, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Interesting footnote, 1984 is public domain in Canada (they have shorter durations for copyright than the US) and all of Orwell’s works can be gotten on the web, free.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 4:53 PM
Apparently the legal department of Amazon did not consult with the public relations department. Not a good move, could have been handled much better.
sherry on July 18, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Link?
Oldnuke on July 18, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Orwell is also past copyright in Australia. For free Orwell.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Sue the sh*t out of them for theft. You bought the “book” fair and square. If they want it back, they have to get it back on YOUR terms as the new owner. Say, for a few hundred dollars you can “sell” it back to them. Otherwise, they’ve just outright stolen it. Regardless of whether they “refunded” the purchase price or not.
KSgop on July 18, 2009 at 4:55 PM
I’ve always pictured him as an orphan.
Or a robot.
Rhinoboy on July 18, 2009 at 4:56 PM
How do they delete them?
Is the Kindle connected 24/7?
Is Amazon actively scanning them?
BallisticBob on July 18, 2009 at 4:57 PM
As a Kindle owner, I’m disappointed by the way Amazon has handled this and I don’t blame anybody who’s reconsidering their purchase. They couldn’t have shot themselves more squarely in the foot if they tried.
Jim Treacher on July 18, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Note: I saw a reference to this first in the comments on Volokh.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Is Amazon going to use the OJ defense? The Vegas OJ defense, that is.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM
You can turn the modem off, but apparently the next time you turn it on to download something or use the web browser, they can delete stuff. But now they say they won’t. We’ll see.
Jim Treacher on July 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Paperback and hardcover, people. Paperback and hardcover.
LiquidH2O on July 18, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Yes. A dealbreaker for me. Christmas for myself and my tween will require another reader.
FeFe on July 18, 2009 at 5:01 PM
AP’s mom was a robot, a la Brave New World and others. Hence his infatuation with the Humpbot and MM. Wait…how does that explain my fascination with the Humpbot??
bikermailman on July 18, 2009 at 5:01 PM
IT HAS PARENTS!?
RightWinged on July 18, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Call me old fashioned, but I would rather hold a real book with pages in my hands than some electronic device that you have to keep feeding in fresh batteries just so you can get through the whole book.
pilamaye on July 18, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Amazon is simply helping out their Messiah. I mean, they sure don’t want kids to see the stunning parallels between Animal Farm, 1984, and the Obama Regime…
Fuzzlenutter on July 18, 2009 at 5:02 PM
How many times have we heard these words, “making changes so that this will never happen again”? Yeah, never.
d1carter on July 18, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Kindle is great for travel. Just thought I’d mention that for all the people who would rather hold a book. I like to have a wide variety of reading materials on a 5+ hr flight.
I have issues with amazon’s music service as well. A complete PITA. Hard to imagine it being any more annoying.
tuffy on July 18, 2009 at 5:04 PM
This is a one time FUBAR act and has to do with copyrights not politics. I’m sure you realize that so if you like your Kindle it shouldn’t be a problem. Dollar to a donut that the next time something like this happens it’ll be handled differently. I love my Sony and have been considering the purchase of a Kindle too. This PR disaster they brought on themselves won’t even enter into my decision.
Oldnuke on July 18, 2009 at 5:04 PM
No, but it does make me much more wary of Amazon.
The deal-breaker for the Kindle is price. Plus, I’ve read some reviews that the 2nd-generation Kindle is worse than the 1st in terms of legibility.
KS Rex on July 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM
This is why only a truly dense individual would trust Google and their online applications and web-OS. That’s just asking those commies to abuse you and your rights.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Amazon sends this song whenever they delete your ebook.
Winston Smith whistled it in Room 101 a lot.
profitsbeard on July 18, 2009 at 5:06 PM
What is a kindle?
Jim708 on July 18, 2009 at 5:06 PM
On this topic, I have often worried if not all digitally stored info we’re not only subject to acts like this, but revisionist rewriting as well.
em>Oceania has always been at war with East Asia!
Is a combination of a F*451/1984 scenario, digital rewrites and burning of books next. i don’t want to stray into a tin-foil-hat realm here but….With much of the past year and a half has seeming out of the Twilight Zone, economic policies from Atlas Shrugged, healthcare sounding like a cross between Logan’s Run & Brave New World, leaves me wanting to scream “Scottie, Beam Me Up!”
Archimedes on July 18, 2009 at 5:08 PM
OT but I’m headed in for knee surgery next week. I attended an orientation class and screening at the hospital last week. The nurse announced that we would be going to “Room 101″! I almost bolted.
Oldnuke on July 18, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Customers might be mollified if Amazon assured them, “We are changing our systems so that in the future we cannot remove books from customers’ devices without an engraved invitation, signed before witnesses and notarized.”
I wonder if Amazon is able to change the text of a work already purchased, that is, without deleting the work and replacing it.
Kralizec on July 18, 2009 at 5:09 PM
I thought it was how you start a fire.
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Apparently a high tech method for burning books.
profitsbeard on July 18, 2009 at 5:10 PM
Thanks for the link. I have Animal Farm (illustrated by Ralph Steadman) and 1984 already. But it is good to be able to access other works from Orwell without running to the library.
bayview on July 18, 2009 at 5:10 PM
Bad decision by Amazon, but it sounds like they have learned from their action, and are going to change how they react towards people unlicensed to sell copyrighted work.
In the scheme of things, much faster adjustment than would transpire in the inflexible, non-responsive public sector.
sDs61678 on July 18, 2009 at 5:10 PM
wait, there is something out there to read besides HotAir?
kelley in virginia on July 18, 2009 at 5:11 PM
I wonder how long it will be before they modify content on people’s kindles. Lets say someone writes a book about population control and some time later they are appointed to some position such as Science Czar. What if they want to go back and eliminate or modify potentially embarrassing works done earlier in life. So they publish a new edition of their earlier work and people with an electronic copy find their edition has been “corrected” or “updated” up “upgraded”.
Washington Post does that all the time with their newspaper’s website. Archives are modified or scrubbed. I am betting the same thing is going to begin happening soon with books.
Electronic copy isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
crosspatch on July 18, 2009 at 5:12 PM
Definitely. I’m not willing to pay for something that allows for such thievery.
I wonder if hardcopy sales of these two titles will soar in the coming days or weeks.
fireweednectar on July 18, 2009 at 5:12 PM
It might make you wonder what sort of information is stored in the Kindle as to books/pages dispayed, time, … (I don’t have one, so I know nothing about it). I guess we’ll find out as soon as a conservative is needed to be taken down and we start to hear about his Kindle-habits …
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Speaking of WUWT, watching a video of a congressman get eviscerated by his constituents right now.
bikermailman on July 18, 2009 at 5:13 PM
It’s not a flashlight. It’s got a rechargable battery. With the modem turned off, I can read hundreds of pages on a single charge.
Jim Treacher on July 18, 2009 at 5:15 PM
A Republican traitor, I might add…Castle.
bikermailman on July 18, 2009 at 5:15 PM
Amazon just lit a match to that brand name.
Kralizec on July 18, 2009 at 5:15 PM
LOL! They stole my work that I did on my stolen work!!
Caper29 on July 18, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Unless you force it to be digitally timestamped, but then you have to rely on the authority verifying the stamp and the future integrity of the hashing scheme …
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 5:16 PM
AP, you might think about linking that video…they tear this guy a new one….watching the massive boos as he defends his garbage.
bikermailman on July 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM
What a lowdown dirty thing for Amazon to do.
It really squicks me out that they have access to snoop in peoples’ reading device. I would never buy one for that reason alone. But if you’re still tempted, read this review of the product:
http://www.amazon.com/review/RV0R3AODMRNJZ/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RV0R3AODMRNJZ
RushBaby on July 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Think of the opportunity that will give a would-be prophet to exercise an ex post facto prophetic gift.
Kralizec on July 18, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Try breaking into your neighbor’s house to retrieve a book you passed on via yard sale, then found out you didn’t own in the first place. That is the issue.
-
Off topic… A caller to The Big Talker in Phila just made note that 30 years ago today Ted Kennedy “murdered Mary Jo Kopecky”
-
RalphyBoy on July 18, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Proud e-consumer: I have a first edition of kindle’s 1984.
Amazon: Not any more you don’t.
Digital means endlessly, and undetectably revisable. Rendering it valueless in legal circumstances (license plate speed trap cameras, et al, since there is no analog hard copy original, only cyber-silly putty 1’s and 0’s) or for historical purposes.
The future of digital is chimaerical.
profitsbeard on July 18, 2009 at 5:19 PM
They couldn’t get her name right?
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 5:20 PM
The fonts are fantastic on the DX. I set them one notch from max size and I don’t need my reading glasses. I don’t see how anyone could think it has legibility problems.
Anyway, this was definitely a bone-headed move on Amazon’s part, but I tend to believe them when they say it won’t happen again.
FuriousAmerican on July 18, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Couple years ago my Amazon account was hacked into, and I got an e-mail supposedly from Amazon advising me that they needed a confirmation on an order being placed through them for a flat-screen TV totaling over $1,800, which was to be charged to the Visa card I had on file. All they needed was the security code from the back of the card to complete the purchase.
Fortunately, I had a limit on the card I use for Internet purchases, just in case this type of thing might happen. I contacted Amazon, forwarded the e-mail (they claimed they didn’t send it, but that the con artists were responsible), and waited for a reply.
Amazon claimed that all accounts at that time were ‘open’ types. Once logged in you couldn’t log out, so theoretically anyone could enter your name and password to log in, which is why simple passwords are not very good policy for use at such sites. They claimed that’s how the con artists had hacked into my account, and they would try to trace the activity to determine what/who/how, etc.
I told them to immediately cancel my account. If I wasn’t allowed to log out, leaving the account vulnerable, then I didn’t want it. We exchanged several e-mail during which they did everything in their power to convince me not to cancel the account. But I insisted, and eventually they complied.
I’ve not purchased anything through Amazon since, had my Visa card replaced with a new one/number, and lowered the limit on it even more in the event a hacker wouldn’t be bothered trying to purchase low price ticket items that weren’t worth his/her time and trouble.
Very rarely now do I make online purchases, and I let the card be close to maxed out most of the time so that I only have enough credit on it for each purchase.
If Amazon can play games with “Kindle” as was described, then I’m especially glad I discontinued doing purchasing anything at all from them. Sounds like, overall, Amazon is not a ’store’ to be trusted, ever.
KendraWilder on July 18, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Which he did in good faith, not knowing they didn’t have the right to sell what they sold to him. The kid was just trying to do a book report.
Jim Treacher on July 18, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Does it also irk you to do a 5 second google search?
warden on July 18, 2009 at 5:25 PM
No offense, but this is not the best idea I’ve ever heard.
Jim Treacher on July 18, 2009 at 5:25 PM
No offense but when I want info about the law I think I want it from InstaGlenn not Mrs. Instapundit. Unless we are talking about how we feel about having our stuff stolen. Sorry, I am joking!! Was it not possible for Amazon to replace the unauthorized versions with authorized versions? Thanks for the heads up Allah I was planning a purchase in the near future for my daughter.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 5:26 PM
Deal breaker for me. Too much recent consumer technologies come with these ‘gotchas’. I want none of it.
DngrMse on July 18, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Dude, I know. Just a joke.
I already sent my complaint in this morning to Amazon telling them I would never buy kindle.
Caper29 on July 18, 2009 at 5:30 PM
It was possible for Amazon to do any number of things. They opted for the bone headed solution for which they will pay dearly. Bottom line is Amazon is a business and their top priority is their bottom line. Anything that adversely affects that is gonna get fixed or they go belly up.
Oldnuke on July 18, 2009 at 5:30 PM
Oooooorwell!
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:31 PM
That review is so damning, Amazon deserves a little credit for having left it up.
Kralizec on July 18, 2009 at 5:33 PM
In the future, that comment and this one will take the elevator straight to Tier 2.
Kralizec on July 18, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Ugh. I really wanted a Kindle. Now, not so much.
I understand protecting copyright but do not understand failing to contact purchasers first to explain.
Lynn2008 on July 18, 2009 at 5:35 PM
My response whenever anyone asks me how I feel about the current administration: “Or well”.
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 5:35 PM
I’ve noticed that “sale” prices on Amazon are anything but.
JAW on July 18, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Reason I’m hesitant on new iPhone
GPS
I know they can triangulate with my version
but it is less accurate
reason I wont ever get a super tech car
tracking
my basic Kia has no technology
no tracking
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:37 PM
Big bro can suck a fat one
-Kenny powers
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Good. Thank you.
It’s gotten so I won’t buy any music, software, anything that I can’t securely store on CD or otherwise.
petefrt on July 18, 2009 at 5:38 PM
I was strongly considering buying one but I. like 99% of buyers, was not aware that Amazon had a way to get into MY device and steal MY books without my consent. As someone on another forum noted, this is like buying a book at Barns & Noble, and then awakening the next day and finding they had broken into your home, stolen the book, and left you a check on the dining room table…The check does not make up for the theft, so, yes, this is a deal breaker. Until and unless Amazon makes their device one way…ie, I load purchased product and NO ONE has the power or method to remove it without my consent, then I will never own one of those toys.
JIMV on July 18, 2009 at 5:39 PM
I don’t know. My kid is crazy about his Kindle. I’m waiting until the technology gets smoothed out.
There is another issue, and that is pricing. Right now, a flat fee is being charged. Publishers are itching to change that.
AnninCA on July 18, 2009 at 5:39 PM
Why, you ask, do I, as a super sexy 21 year old, not have the newest iPhone?
Simple
I don’t want crazy hacker girls tracking my hot ass down
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:40 PM
“blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:40 PM”
most cougars aren’t hackers …
/jus’ sayin’ …
Buckaroo on July 18, 2009 at 5:41 PM
-
My bad… Did a quick post with no spell check.
-
Mary Jo Kopeckney
RalphyBoy on July 18, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Amazon needs to be sued by its customers for burgulary.
scotash on July 18, 2009 at 5:42 PM
“RalphyBoy on July 18, 2009 at 5:41 PM”
er, that’s still misspelled …
[!!]
Buckaroo on July 18, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Yes, the lack of consultation is especially galling.
Kralizec on July 18, 2009 at 5:43 PM
I know. I’ve lost hundred of bucks in music and software that wouldn’t have happened if I could have put them on CD, separate hard drive, etc. Their view on “digital liscense” SUCKS. Either I own it or I don’t. If I can’t own it, why buy it?
petefrt on July 18, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Mary Jo Kopechne died 40 years ago. Not 30. RIP.
tuffy on July 18, 2009 at 5:45 PM
thomasaur on July 18, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Yes. Why wouldn’t this qualify for the same penalties that any hacker suffers for illegally accessing a computer? Times the number of Kindle’s hacked by Amazon. Whoever authorized and carried out this Kindle theft could easily face decades in jail, if some prosecutor cared to bring a criminal case. It could be any prosecutor with a hacked Kindle, or hacked Kindle owner, in their area.
progressoverpeace on July 18, 2009 at 5:45 PM
“blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:40 PM”
most cougars aren’t hackers …
/jus’ sayin’ …
Buckaroo on July 18, 2009 at 5:41 PM
And that is precisely why I don’t want gps
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:46 PM
It would be interesting to know what the secessions on how to best handle this situation looked like? Especially if this was deemed the best choice. Sounds like a rush to keep from getting a call from a lawyer to me. We will never know. I am sure ultimately I will still buy my daughter the Kindle but they have a lot of “splanning” and butt kissing to do first.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 5:48 PM
I believe apple is moving away from DRM
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:48 PM
I read HotAir on my Kindle.. you can’t read the comments, but it’s great to keep up with the news when traveling, and/or outside, at the beach.
I prefer Kindle to reading an actual book, easy on the eyes, change fonts anytime I choose, download books in 30 seconds, GREAT battery life. They have textbooks for Kindle as well.
Oh, and yeah, Amazon screwed this up.
TN Mom on July 18, 2009 at 5:48 PM
“I read HotAir on my Kindle.”
/puts kindle back on wishlist
:-)
Buckaroo on July 18, 2009 at 5:49 PM
I read it mostly on my phone
been wishing for mobile hotair for two years
or a hotair app
come on AP
get with the times
blatantblue on July 18, 2009 at 5:49 PM
I wonder how long it will be before they modify content on people’s kindles.crosspatch on July 18, 2009 at 5:12 PM
As in, “Let me be perfectly clear, as I’ve consistently said…blah-blah-blah.”
Archimedes on July 18, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Kindle has always been unappealing to me. This makes it more so, but in truth – they weren’t going to make this sale anyway. Just a dinosaur who has to be able to turn pages.
Kinda like these digital-rights management they have with some of the computer games. It’s not for me. If I buy it, I want ownership – period. Fee simple absolute!
ManUFan on July 18, 2009 at 5:52 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »