CBO: House version of ObamaCare adds $239 billion to deficit
posted at 9:54 am on July 18, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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As if the White House hadn’t heard enough from Doug Elmendorf and the CBO this week. Their new analysis shows that the House version of ObamaCare not only is not deficit neutral, but the actual hit to the federal deficit for this program alone exceeds $239 billion over the next decade. Democrats immediately pledged to address it — by finding new ways to cook the books:
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office dealt another blow to House Democrats on Friday night, saying their health care bill would increase the federal deficit by $239 billion over the next 10 years.
The projected shortfall means Democrats would need to find additional revenue or make deeper cuts to existing programs in order to meet their goal of paying for the $1 trillion bill.
But those projections don’t account for a $245 billion reduction in the deficit this legislation would create, if Democrats can also approve new balanced budget rules that would permanently address an annual shortfall in Medicare payments to physicians[.] Democrats may also defend the cost of their bill by pointing out that in the long run, under new accounting rules, the bill would generate a $6 billion surplus.
Do these new rules cut expenditures by $245 billion over the next ten years? No. In fact, their new rules allow Medicare to pay doctors more for their services, increasing expenditures. They just don’t have to show that on the books:
In the bill, Democrats provide $245 billion to eliminate an annual shortfall in payments to doctors under Medicare. Democrats resolved this annual headache, in large part, to win crucial support for the bill from the American Medical Association. That money currently counts against the overall costs of the bill, but Democrats have introduced legislation that would remove this obligation from federal deficit. However, CBO won’t recognize that change until those new pay-as-you-go rules become law.
Got that? The Democrats want to spend the $245 billion but just not have it count in the checkbook. I used to try these “accounting rules” with my first bank, although I did it accidentally. They invited me to abide by their accounting rules or find another bank. The money gets spent, but the Democrats don’t have to be held accountable for running the deficit any farther up than they’re already doing. It’s a shell game, and nothing more.
Small wonder, then, that Barack Obama himself made a surprise appearance late yesterday afternoon, when most reporters expect nothing more than the standard document dump. Andrew Malcolm explains why Obama needed to make a personal appearance, and to schedule a prime-time press conference for Wednesday night:
Friday afternoons and evenings — as we’ve mentioned here previously — are usually a dumping ground for political news its originators do not want noticed much. Especially entering warm summer weekends.
The flip side of that adage is that there’s rarely much competition for the news at those times. Tah-dah! Not by accident today President Barack Obama (despite the shattering death of his beloved teleprompter earlier this week) staged an unscheduled media availability to insert himself into the news.
Not much competition, so he got lots of coverage. And since he walked out afterward without taking any questions, there was no chance of anything else detracting from the message he wanted to insert: Healthcare now!
The president knows his keystone program is in deep trouble and losing momentum. That’s why his organization is sending out all those e-mails and organizing local discussion groups to mobilize grassroots support and why he drags the subject into everything he talks about. Why he even dragged it into a speech Thursday night celebrating the NAACP’s centennial. And he’ll no doubt focus on the same subject in his weekly address tomorrow (Text here as always at 3 a.m. Pacific Saturday).
“Now is not the time to slow down,” he pleads.
Which sounds much like winter’s successful argument for urgent passage of the economic stimulus bill, whose benefits have yet to appear. We gotta do this now doesn’t always work the second time around.
The “fierce urgency of now” doesn’t play well once you’ve blown the first “now” into “you’ll see the benefits in 18 months.” With the CBO continuing to shine the light on the deep hole ObamaCare represents, Obama needs to get it done now or watch as it founders in its own sea of red ink.
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It doesn’t matter if our kids & grandkids are crippled by debt! We need HOPE & CHANGE NOW, right?
jgapinoy on July 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Wednesday night’s press conference may be the drive-bys’ last chance to redeem themselves. Because if they conspire with this administration to help get this disaster passed, this country as we know it is finished.
Doughboy on July 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM
I’m done with this fool lying right to my face. I’m sure there’s some re-run of Full House or something that will be far more enlightening than his tired old speech on Wednesday.
anniekc on July 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Reminds me of the Dems’ House post office scandal of the early 90s.
jgapinoy on July 18, 2009 at 10:00 AM
Adds 239 billion and doesn’t offer any solution to the problem. The problem: government meddling in healthcare in the first place! End employer based healthcare! Let the free market take full control over healthcare, back to doctor – patient care, back to the individual!
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:01 AM
This kill this crap for good.
Am I wrong to think that a mere fraction of what they want to spend could be used to help those who truly need medical care and they leave the rest of us alone?
Blake on July 18, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Debatable. It’s run by dems during Dem administrations, and Reps during Rep admins. that’s why it’s rarely criticized–doing so would be a circular firing squad. Nevertheless, that didn’t stop NY stuperliberal Schumer yesterday calling the CBO numbers “wacky.”
JiangxiDad on July 18, 2009 at 10:02 AM
If Obamacare tanks can they still enforce the surtax on the rich? I think that is their ultimate goal anyway.
ctmom on July 18, 2009 at 10:03 AM
As our beloved thug-in-chief said yesterday, those betting against this getting done, are sadly mistaken…
I think Obama is the one taking a big gamble now.
singlemalt_18 on July 18, 2009 at 10:03 AM
..the Statist is dissatisfied with the condition of his own existence. He condemns his fellow man, surroundings, and society itself for denying him the fulfillment, success, and adulation he believes he deserves. He is angry, resentful, petulant, and jealous. He is incapable of honest self-assessment and rejects the honest assessment by others of himself, thereby evading responsibility for his own miserable condition. The Statist searches for significance and even glory in a utopian fiction of his mind’s making, the earthly attainment of which, he believes, is frustrated by those who do not share it. Therefore, he must destroy the civil society, piece by piece.
–excerpt from “Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto” by Mark Levin p 15-16
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. Ther robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
–quote by CS Lewis, excerpted from “Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto” by Mark Levin p 22-23.
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM
The more I think on it, the more convinced I become that, at some point during my lifetime, the United States federal government will fail… and by fail, I mean that the resulting government will be named something like “The 2nd Republic of the USA”
It’s going to get ugly… and by ugly, I mean Nancy Pelosi ugly.
BPD on July 18, 2009 at 10:06 AM
We don’t need any government involvement in health care. How did people ever survive pre-1950s-60s when government began meddling? hm. Insurance was never an issue back then!
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:06 AM
“National health care is the mother of all entitlement programs, for through it the Statist controls not only the material wealth of the individual but his physical well-being. Remind the people that politicians and bureaucrats, about whom they are already cynical, will ultimately have the final say over their choice of doctors, hospitals, and treatments–meaning the system will be politicized and bureacratized. Remind them that this human experiment has been tried and failed in places like Britain and Canada, where patients have been subjected to arbitrary treatment decisions, long waiting periods for lifesaving surgeries, antiquated medical technologies, the denial of high-cost pharmaceuticals available elsewhere, and the inefficient rationing of health care generally. Despite past utopian promises, the Statist rarely delivers.”
–excerpt from “Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto” by Mark Levin, p 203.
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:06 AM
So that’s why the AMA supported it, I was wondering what they got out of it, since it does not appear to be in the interest of doctors for this to pass. Short term gain, long term pain.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:07 AM
“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
–President Ronald Reagan, excerpted from “Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto” by Mark Levin p 205.
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Of course. Repealing the Bush tax cuts in 2011 for the top income earners(and possibly the rest of us) is already a done deal. It’s not a stretch to imagine they’ll bump up the top rate from 39.6% to 45% regardless of the outcome of Obamacare. Especially when we’re approaching a $2 trillion deficit for this year alone.
Doughboy on July 18, 2009 at 10:07 AM
“He is angry, resentful, petulant, and jealous. He is incapable of honest self-assessment and rejects the honest assessment by others of himself, thereby evading responsibility for his own miserable condition. The Statist searches for significance ….”
sound familiar..sound like anyone you may know..?
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:08 AM
The democrats are morons on this issue. And McCain’s plan was very anti-free market. Tax health care so that we can expand coverage? No wonder why he lost.
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:10 AM
oops. The democrats are morons on
thisevery issue.Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Prime time speech by Obama is scheduled for Wednesday to sell this garbsage to the masses?
Even if your Congress critter is a Dem…send them an email, a fax, a snail-mail letter and tell them what you think of this travesty. They value only one thing…getting re-elected and having the adulation of their constituents…OK, two things…and having a steady money stream…OK, three things.
Get family members, friends, co-workers to do the same.
But if we do not let them know how appalled and disgusted we are, the ACORN and statist crowd will win by default.
coldwarrior on July 18, 2009 at 10:10 AM
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Business groups need to throw some ads together QUICKLY and inform the public about their LAYOFF plans if this passes.
artist on July 18, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Everyone of those lying leftist Democrats should be tried convicted and jailed.
rplat on July 18, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Everyone of those lying leftist Democrats should be
tried convicted and jailedtarred and feathered.rplat on July 18, 2009 at 10:12 AM
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Hey, maybe you guys went after the wrong terrorists? lol
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:14 AM
How will the dollar not collapse next year? We have to start paying for all this very soon, it’s not going to happen. Next year will be much worse I’m afraid.
Firebird on July 18, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Bingo. Funny how they are not interested in taxing wealth,(that would impact too many of them: Kennedy, Kerry, Buffet, Pelosi etc.) only the working rich who want to become wealthy by earning their money right now.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:15 AM
He’s riding a snowmobile across an unfrozen pond.
forest on July 18, 2009 at 10:16 AM
WE?? What you talkin’ bout willis? Nobody said nuthin bout no We payin’ for it. You got a mouse in your pocket, cause fo sho there’s only YOU payin for it. Take a “y” out of “payin” and what you get—PAIN. But, if you put an “L” in there and you get something better…. PALIN!
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:17 AM
You can put lipstick on a pig… but it still has big ears,and purple lips…
M-14 2go on July 18, 2009 at 10:17 AM
How do these idiots not get their skulls cracked?
BallisticBob on July 18, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Let me get this straight,he is going to save money by lowering the amounts the doctors receive from Medicare so that he can put more people into the almost same system? Doctors are turning down new Medicare patients all the the time because the reimbursements don’t cover the cost of the care. Then you add his constant encouragement for seniors to embrace death and you have the makings of sure fired winner. I guess he is hoping that the youth vote thinks the oldsters are a pain instead of beloved family members that they are kind of attached to. This administration should start advancing the Goth fashion style in keeping with their theory of American life.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:19 AM
I said it before and I’ll repeat it again. Soon there will be a “CBO Czar” and all these pesky problems will disappear.
Wine_N_Dine on July 18, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Did any of you catch O’Reilly(with Laura hosting)yesterday? They briefly discussed the role of hospice in elderly care and one of the Obama precepts is to have ‘consultants’ go into the homes of elderly and promote hospice as a tool for facing end of life issues. Don’t know if it was spin or not, but it was made to sound as if it would be the substitute of choice over using different means to prolong life…sort of ‘the gov. will help you to accept dying whether you want to or not’ If this is really in the bill in this form, then why isn’t the writer of much of this bill(Ted Kennedy)practicing what he’s preached instead of clinging to life with his fingernails by any means available? Gives truly a new meaning to ‘forked tongue’ Phony, phony Congress and triple phony Obama and company.
jeanie on July 18, 2009 at 10:22 AM
This is just all a show trial to act like due diligence is being done. In the end a bill will pass with Repub votes.
The goal is any bill, the footnotes don’t matter. Once it gets under the door it is permanent. Going forward as expenses grow out of control, as all Fed spending does, each Congress will pass the supposed “fix”. The fact that health care will diminish is not important. What is first and foremost is that the government gets control over another 15% of the economy.
patrick neid on July 18, 2009 at 10:23 AM
It will happen. The dollar will collapse… sooner rather than later. This has been my biggest fear for the past year or so. It gets not press, but China is aggressively hedging itself for the inevitable. They have been on a massive commodities spending spree for the past 5 years (particularly gold). They aren’t purchasing any more long bonds (10yr, 30yr). Instead they are purchasing 1yr/2yr. They are preparing for the collapse, and they are close to being hedged. Once that happens, Financial “M.A.D.” no longer applies and it may be game over.
BPD on July 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Since 1970, Medicare and Medicaid’s combined per-patient costs have risen from $344 to $8,955, while the combined per-patient costs of all other US health care have risen from $364 to $7,119.
Medicare and Medicaid used to cost $20 less per patient than other care. Now they cost $1,836 more. (And that’s even without the Medicare prescription-drug benefit.)
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/07/government_run_health_care_mor.html
ICBM on July 18, 2009 at 10:25 AM
**Aslo, tell them you will spend any amount of money and use all your energy to send them packing in 2010 & 2012!!
This… is very important!
katy on July 18, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:19 AM
I keep saying this but Obama/Orzag have decided the only way to shrink the long term deficit is to reduce the Medicare part of the pie, and they think the only politically feasible way to do that is to pit the general public against the seniors in allocating healthcare resources. Institute the public option. Voila, when a choice has to be made down the road between paying for healthcare services for younger voters and grandma’s hip who will win?
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Andrew Malcolm is alright.
Jim Treacher on July 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM
We shouldn’t expand Medicare, we should eliminate it. Imagine that. The money saved would be a great relief on the economy. Then give ALL Americans a tax holiday while we scrap the federal income tax system, that would cost around 800 billion. We get rid of Medcaid + Medicare then cut sales taxes and we’ll see a surplus in the budget to pay off some of the debt imo
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Smoke and mirrors, Chicago style. Is Congress able to summon the courage to tell The One where to put his expensive overhaul of our society?
They have proven top be his water carrier so far.
FireBlogger on July 18, 2009 at 10:28 AM
Time to make visits to local Congressional offices next week.
Like they did in Missouri the other day.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/17/report-mccaskills-staffers-flip-health-care-protesters-the-bird/#comments
katy on July 18, 2009 at 10:29 AM
They died younger, as a whole. Average life expectancy has increased by more than 10 years since 1950. Cancer was invariably and usually swiftly fatal. There were few prescription drugs. There were no by-pass surgeries, angioplasties, ultrasounds, MRIs or CAT scans.
ProfessorMiao on July 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM
ProfessorMiao on July 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM
So Right. This is why the argument by the leftists that there is something inherently wrong with our spending %17 of our GDP on healthcare is so dumb. Living longer costs more than dying younger. DUH.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:32 AM
You’ve just described Obamacare.
katy on July 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Obama losing some support among nervous Dems
By BETH FOUHY (AP) – 7 hours ago
NEW YORK — Could it be that President Barack Obama’s Midas touch is starting to dull a bit, even among members of his own party?
Conservative House Democrats are balking at the cost and direction of Obama’s top priority, an overhaul of the nation’s health care system. A key Senate Democrat, Max Baucus of Montana, complains that Obama’s opposition to paying for it with a tax on health benefits “is not helping us.”
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Not only does it “help” Medicare but it alleviates the Social Security problem also. What’s a few hundred thousand dead old people, these are the same people that haven’t met an unborn child that they see as drain on their power instead of the golden future of tomorrow. They may just get away with this, people are encouraged to think only of themselves and modern culture has done everything it can to diminish respect for the elder population. It’s the seniors patriotic duty to check out early.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Sooooo–many of y’all think that the hospice idea or similar is OK if it manages to reduce Medicare?
jeanie on July 18, 2009 at 10:34 AM
In Missouri, which Obama narrowly lost to McCain, Democratic strategist Steve Glorioso said hardcore base voters were as enthusiastic as ever for Obama but that there was a sense of disappointment about him among less committed Democrats and independents.
“People are scared,” Glorioso said. “This is the worst economic time anyone under the age of 80 has ever experienced, and you can’t discount people being afraid. Now that we are in July, the fear is turning to disappointment that the president hasn’t fixed everything yet. I don’t know why they thought he could change everything by now, but some did.”
ted c on July 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM
New technology decreases prices in every industry, besides health care. Why is that? GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT. That’s why.
You know the old formula?
Competition among doctors will cut prices. Also increases quality because doctors want to to increase their business
We need more doctors. So if we eliminate the requirement for a STATE license then we would have all of the doctors that the economy needs. The free market is self-regulating. For example, a hospital might only accept doctors that graduate from certain schools. They don’t want to be sued. They want business, so you know that they will make sure that there are no incompetent doctors on their staff.
Same thing for nurses.
We vote with our dollars. The best doctors do well, the rest struggle.. that’s democracy in the economy at work
We have here innovation, quality, all for the best bang for your buck. you can’t beat the free market
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:36 AM
I sent emails to Chucky Schumer, Gillibrand, Peter King(although I know he’s on our side here) and notes of encouragement to some “blue dogs”. It really sucks to be a conservative in NY.
Tazz 55 on July 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Absolutely. Except I’m praying that the seniors will wake up. AARP is for it so I don’t think they are as aware as they should be.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Sure jeanie, it great! It solves all of the nations problems. And yes, Lord, I am being sarcastic.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:40 AM
I don’t quite get that but I guess they figure they always have more customers coming.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM
emails are good. phone calls are better. and next week, i’m visiting my congressman’s local office (its 43 miles away). other than insurrection & survival prep, this activism is all we can do.
but we damn well better do it.
kelley in virginia on July 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM
With Obamacare you will get less. It takes 7 years minimum to train a doctor. If this passes this year it will be 8 years before any new ones can be trained. What happens with that shortage in the meantime?
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Tazz 55 on July 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Know how you feel. In NH there’s no one to write to or call except Gregg and he’s bailing out. That’s why I have to work to see that Kelly Ayotte gets elected to his seat. Otherwise, I’m dis-enfranchised, totally.
jeanie on July 18, 2009 at 10:43 AM
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM
I think it is because they have insurance business that they see as more profitable if this passes. And they care more about profits than actual seniors. Just guessing.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:43 AM
We need to bring back apprenticeships for doctors. Remember when doctors used to do their own training. It’s too bad the government had to go and ruin that.
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM
the lib blogs i read blame us “rich” for trying to “kill” the poor, especially the immigrants.
i know a poor black woman who won’t buy health ins. for her family because they are saving their money to go to disneyworld for Christmas. her daughter has 5 children, the fathers of which are all in jail.
i feel absolutely no guilt here. does that make me a bad person?
kelley in virginia on July 18, 2009 at 10:44 AM
libertarian joseph: explain what you mean by apprenticeships for doctors. you mean like “reading” for the bar? you still have to pass the bar exam.
kelley in virginia on July 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM
I guess I am taking this a bit more personally then the average bear since I am careening into the age group of the designated hit list.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Nobody hates Obama more than I, but I have to call “foul” on this comment.
Obama has done nothing, and will do nothing, to “repeal” the Bush tax-rate reductions. When those rate reductions were enacted, the legislsation itself provided for their expiration in 2010 or 2011 (I forget which). As I recall, the expiration was a budget gimmick used to make the legislation revenue neutral.
Now, you can complain that Obama is not doing anything to extend (or to make permanent) those tax rate reductions. But Obama specifically campaigned that he would not extend those rate reductions for the top two brackets. Of course, Obama, so far as I know, has done know to extend (or make permanent) the rate reductions applicable to the brackets below the top two. I’m not sure what he’s waiting for. We’ll see; I think he’s putting it off for now in case he has to back out on that promise.
Your point about increasing the tax rate from 39.6% to 45% is well taken. But again, you cannot say that Obama is repealing the rate reductions for the top two brackets because that was part of the law since their enactment. Blame Bush and the Congress that enacted that legislation.
BuckeyeSam on July 18, 2009 at 10:47 AM
I just saw Rep. John Dingell on TV saying the CBO issued a statement last night saying this POS legislation does not add to the deficit and is deficit neutral. I can’t find any record of that statement.
He also said that George Bush left them a legacy of two wars, a depression and a 1.3 Trillion dollar deficit. Does anyone know where this 1.3 Trillion figure comes from? This is the second time I heard this, I believe the POTUS said this as well.
msmveritas on July 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM
A scary look into our future:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/13017
American Nightmare
Author
Dave Macy Bio
Send a friendEmail Article
broken watermains
By Dave Macy Saturday, July 18, 2009
(Fantasy Land, USA) The capitol of the United States of America was changed today from Washington, D.C. to a more suitable semantic: Fantasy Land, D.O. (District of Obama).
While the country’s remaining eight Republican senators and twenty-two representatives recorded their protest on C-Span, all of the networks and cable channels devoted four hours of coverage to the ceremonies surrounding the dedication of the new name and new Fantasy Land monument The Barack.
Oprah Winfrey had the honor of unveiling the towering 350 foot monument which depicts President Obama (now in his fourth term) grasping a teleprompter with the phase “I won” scrolling across the screen.
Also sharing the podium was Imam Haj Mohammed who led the massive crowd in a prayer chant to Allah after presenting Mr. Obama with his own personalized prayer rug with a BHO monogram.
The festivities included a parade down Pennsylvania Avenue with members of ACORN tethering a massive balloon shaped like America including all 57 states. The highlight of the gathering came when Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor read a decision by the court making it a hate crime for anyone to read the Bible out loud or to speak the name of Jesus anywhere in public venues or in the workplace. It was deemed acceptable however to say ‘Jesus Christ’ and ‘Goddamn’ as often as necessary in movies, on television, or in public as long as one was using the names in a pejorative manner.
In other news today the population of the US fell to 200 million as the American Eradication Program recorded its 150 millionth participant. Alice Well received a congratulations and thank you note signed by the Surgeon General before being wheeled into the Eradication Center where her last words were spoken to an assembly of the state run media. “I gladly surrender my life at the ripe age of 59 so that others will not have to work hard to cover my potential medical bills and retirement income”, said Ms. Well. “It is a far better thing I do than to become a burden on our society.”
Mr. Obama hailed the program as the cornerstone of American austerity saying that the program has saved trillions of dollars that would have been wasted on older Americans while at the other end of the spectrum the sterilization and selective breeding components have kept the birth rate steady and health care costs controlled.
Vice President Al Franken echoed the president’s comments saying that because of the Eradication Program “America can now go to that Happy Place”.
BPD on July 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM
That is the sick patient (america) deductible. 245 billion is the understatement of the year. It will not as written be a penny under 4 times that..
Obama’s top Whitehouse advisor on Medical economics (Rosie S Cenario) always creates friendly estimates. Remember Hundreds of billions more because they have no employer to parasitically attach their insurance bill to.
“When Rosie Scenario speaks, the bond markets quiver”
Hey folks, check out page 425 of the Killer Bill and note every 5 years our seniors will get free “why aren’t you dying ” counseling. The previous pages say a free interpretor will be provided. That must mean for the illegals on the plan.
seven on July 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM
If medicine weren’t anymore complicated in this day and age than using leeches and no anesthesia, than you might have a point, but I want my doctor to have been the smartest guy in the class not some guy who could barely get out of high school. No offense to those guys.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Exactly. And high tech medicine isn’t cheap.
ProfessorMiao on July 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM
Same here. But that really goes for everyone eventually.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM
That’s why, in a free market, you choose who to see. You don’t just any old guy as you do in the current state of things. People should try using their brains before allowing a doctor treat them. If you don’t trust him, go to a different one ! :)
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Morning Cindy! Yes, it’s hard for some of these youngsters to realise that their turn is coming. However, there is a lot of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid–have to admit that. Wonder if that could be eliminated or sharply curtailed if it would show a difference? Those of us on Medicare have a duty to carefully review our bills and services to be sure that they are accurate and not excessive and actually took place. We also need to take the time and trouble to understand whether the services the doctor’s and hospitals are suggesting are absolutely necessary and worth the time and money. It is not a program without responsibility if one cares to do it right. But(very important)I do not want the gov. doing it for me thanks.
jeanie on July 18, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Since it is not possible to send an email to a Congressman unless you are their constituent I have been Twittering them. Rep. Mike Ross is one.
ctmom on July 18, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Obama is like a sick criminal that’s trapped while robbing a bank and plans to take the bank employees and customers down with him in an idiot gun fight with the cops.He doesn’t care about innocent lives, he only cares about himself.
Jeff from WI on July 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM
The oppoasition should make an amendment to this bill that would immediately put EVERY government employee into this wonderful, new, innovative health care system. Publicize the hell out of their attempt to add that amendment and watch just how quickly this bill gets scuttled
notanobot on July 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM
We have shortages because we have an artificial STATE mechanism that is keeping the supply of doctors in the economy artificially low. That’s also contributes to the rising costs of health care.
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM
ProfessorMiao on July 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM
But a morphine drip and and early funeral are cheaper.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM
and, um, medcine is to complicated these days? You don’t need to study the ins and outs of brain surgery in order to be a general practitioner :/ heh
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 10:56 AM
notanobot on July 18, 2009 at 10:53 AM
I think Sen. Coburn did that in Senate. One of the dems, I can’t remember who objected, but they got it in.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 10:56 AM
All benefits of private enterprise in medicine and insurance.
patrick neid on July 18, 2009 at 10:57 AM
The operative word above is fathers. Beyond that, why bother with health insurance when the government will pick up the tab?
Pork rinds for everyone!
BuckeyeSam on July 18, 2009 at 10:58 AM
libertarian jos: my 1st husband was a doctor. i was with him all thru med school & residency. the educ & training was rigorous. i mean, really, really rigorous. these young docs were very, very bright.
that is who i want. but, if as you suggest, we dispense with all the onerous licensing (I get your point here), then those of us in the boonies will have the crappiest doctors, because those of us in rural areas have less money to pay doctors (so the theory goes).
and i don’t want to move to the city because then i can’t kill & raise all my own food (reference to Keemo).
kelley in virginia on July 18, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Thanks for that. Funny… but not so much really.
katy on July 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Not agreeing with you, but what do you do about the shortage in the next 8 years for those GPs? BTW Neurosurgery specialization is way longer and way harder than that for a GP.
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Was he a specialist? Being a general practitioner is not rocket science. You don’t need to study brain surgery in order to treat a kid with a fever.
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 11:00 AM
They just busted a huge Medicare scam here in Florida. I am not using it yet but I agree it is every citizen’s duty to watch how their money is spent. That said, how is it that if there is an hint of a problem with our food supply the federal government is able to back track and find the location of the factory or the animal where the problem started. But the same damn government can be milked for hundreds of millions of dollars by the same people year in and year out. There has got to be a reason that the optimal plan is to let seniors kick off earlier then to do their stupid job. I would suggest we implement the old adage “follow the money”.
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 11:01 AM
End state licensing. Yeah, I know, scary. But I’m not afraid. I’m sure the BBB, and the like, will show me the way.
Libertarian Joseph on July 18, 2009 at 11:03 AM
libertarian joseph: i’d say being a GP requires some brain power if you are in fact, a good GP. the pharmacology reqmt. alone boggles most minds.
with that said, the best GPs i have known are those with an inner “horse sense”.
the ex husband is breast cancer researcher at one of the country’s leading teaching hospitals. yeah, he’s a specialist.
kelley in virginia on July 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Excellent point. And I’m for summary executions for anyone found guilty of Medicare fraud and abuse.
BuckeyeSam on July 18, 2009 at 11:05 AM
Did you ever think that state licensing might be for the protection of patients from unscrupulous and unskilled people?
txmomof6 on July 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM
As a Hospice nurse I find this a very sad way to look at job security
proudteadrinker on July 18, 2009 at 11:07 AM
libertarian joseph: i can’t go there for the end of licensing for docs & nurses. nor for lawyers (my husband is former atty–now judge).
look at our “unlicensed” Congress. and “unlicensed”, “unresearched” President. the public refuses to protect themselves from quacks–let’s leave the govt. mandated licensing in effect for med. professionals.
kelley in virginia on July 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Sure I do. But MRI machines are not like cell phones or flat screen TVs. Not only is the market for them far more limited, but they require highly skilled people to use them. In fact, in Ontario it is the salaries of radiologists that is the real factor limiting access to MRIs.
Humans wait months to get one. But if you want one for your dog, no problem as long as you’re willing to pay.
Competition among doctors will cut prices. Also increases quality because doctors want to to increase their business
I don’t understand your point about state licensing for doctors. In what way does that limit the numbers? Isn’t the number more restricted by the intake at medical schools, or are you suggesting that foreign-trained doctors should face no restrictions on practicing in the US?
While the selection process you posit would work for those rpracticing in hospitals and institutes, much medicine is by family doctors and physicians working in small clinics. It would then be incumbent on patients to find out (verifiably) where the doctor trained, what the general caliber of students at that institution is, and in the case of foreign-trained doctors whether their medical training is up to US standards.
That strikes me as comparable to doing away with standards for electrical appliances and leaving it up to individual purchasers to find out which ones will set your house on fire and which ones are safe.
I’m less optimistic than you are about the extent to which less regulation would drive down the cost of medical services. Of all the developed countries, the US has the least government involvement in medical services and its doctors are the highest paid. (This is why so many Canadian-trained doctors go to the US to practice.) And what would prevent the AMA, or smaller professional groups of professionals, from setting minimums even if they didn’t ‘fix’ prices?
ProfessorMiao on July 18, 2009 at 11:16 AM
LOL! Easy killer!!
Cindy Munford on July 18, 2009 at 11:16 AM
How is state licensing the problem? I really don’t follow you on this.
ProfessorMiao on July 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM
Cindy: Read about that Medicare scam in FL. I’ll bet it’s only a tip of the iceberg. I would be more than happy to give up Medicare in exchange for a program allowing me tax credits or some such to purchase my own insurance. As it is now, Medigap(private insurance to supplement Medicare)is expensive of its own and one policy that covered what these two do would be an improvement on many fronts. One advantage would be that the private insurers keep fraud to a minimum and that, alone, is a substantial improvement on our incompetent Federal government which seems unable to manage the simplest thing efficiently.The other plusses would help eliminate many unnecessary procedures and a lot of red tape. The Obama mentality is unable intrinsically to see this I guess.
jeanie on July 18, 2009 at 11:17 AM
I find that bit about the mandatory ‘counselling’ for seniors offensive beyond belief.
ProfessorMiao on July 18, 2009 at 11:19 AM
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