It’s on: Atheists want “In God We Trust” removed from Capitol visitor’s center
posted at 7:34 pm on July 17, 2009 by Allahpundit
We’re never going to have an atheist president, are we?
Besides the one we have now, I mean. OH YES.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based church-state watchdog group, claimed the engravings are unconstitutional and would exclude the 15% of Americans who identify themselves as non-religious…
Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., who sponsored the bill in the Senate, said historical references to God should not be censored for political correctness.
“The Founders based the Constitution and our laws on religious faith and principles that clear the way for individual freedom,” he said in a statement. “Our true motto, ‘In God We Trust,’ expresses this fact, and we cannot allow a whitewash of America’s religious heritage.”
However, Gaylor said the mottos are inaccurate since “In God We Trust” and the insertion of “under God” into the Pledge of Allegiance were adopted in the 1950s as anti-communist measures.
“They wanted this up there because they think God is the foundation of our government,” Gaylor said. “Boy, are they misinformed.”
Before anyone says something smart-assed, no, atheists aren’t pro-communist. (Not anymore, at least.) I would have let this one go given that (a) no one pays much attention to the “In God We Trust” stuff anyway and (b) the bad press derived from a lawsuit will outweigh the gain from shielding soft-headed believers from a motto engraved in rock except that, per the Establishment Clause, they do have a point. What’s a prudent atheist to do?
Blowback
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LOL
When the Palin threads run dry, AP will toss in a 1st Amendment thread to get things moving again.
If that doesn’t work……………it’s humping robots.
BacaDog on July 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM
I’ve also never really liked the “atheists will go to hell bit”. It just means that they get even more ticked off (rightfully I think) and become more annoying to me because they then think all Christians are like that. They aren’t, all @$$hats are like that, though.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM
+1
Reaps on July 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM
That is the VERY DEFINITION of not having a purpose or a meaning.
Try thinking about it a little harder estheir.
MaximusConfessor on July 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM
I’m not saying you can’t still enjoy this life. I’m just saying that it’s more significant to those who think this is it.
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 9:57 PM
Let us make a solemn vow now that we will never let it come to that.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 9:58 PM
Yes, most anyway I would think, but it does have a way of bringing out the closet Muslims trying vainly to hide behind a cross.
semloh on July 17, 2009 at 9:58 PM
You want to claim him? Go right ahead.
- The Cat
P.S.
Ok, what government church are they establishing?
If the Founding Fathers thought that In God We Trust was violating this, it would have never shown up on our currency.
MirCat on July 17, 2009 at 9:59 PM
It may very well be, but would you mind telling me why?
OldEnglish on July 17, 2009 at 9:59 PM
Hence the oh-so-juicy raw steak picture. Yummy.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 9:59 PM
LOL….I’m new in here I missed the last humping robots thread.
Jeff from WI on July 17, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Well I missed that one too. Strangely, I have no regrets about that.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:01 PM
call attention….
hillbillyjim on July 17,2009 at 9:11PM.
hillbillyjim: Carry-on HBJ,your rock’n,oh,your on deck duty,
toss’n trolls over da side,hehe,carry on!:)
canopfor on July 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM
It didn’t…not till MUCH later.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM
Maybe. It’s certainly good to be focused if one thinks this is all there is.
On the other hand, if one believes in something after this, what is it? Personally, I hope it’s 18 holes at Pebble Beach with my dad. Afterwards we’ll have a couple of beers and remember the good times on earth. If beer is allowed, that is.
I’m taking some with me, just in case.
BacaDog on July 17, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Hahahaha, classy.
And humble.
Reaps on July 17, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Except myself and my family. Funny how I still think I am not alone in this sentiment. Allah, really…
Mommypundit on July 17, 2009 at 10:04 PM
Try activating the lima bean serving as your brain.
If there is no afterlife, then this life is all we have. This is our only chance to make our mark in history. Therefore, making the most of this life is tantamount.
Whereas, if there is some sort of afterlife, then what you do in this life is of uncertain importance. If there is a heaven, for example, and it is true paradise, then this life is trivial. What is certain is that you are damning yourself quite considerably with your recommending that people commit suicide, what you consider to be a mortal sin.
It also makes you just a sick, twisted freak. However, we found that out when you went by the name SaintOlaf.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:04 PM
There had better be or I’ll have a word with management.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:05 PM
Yeah was just reading on it’s history and dang it, you corrected me before I could correct myself.
- The Cat
P.S. It still wasn’t establishing a church though. IE forcing Ireland to accept an English run Church of Ireland.
MirCat on July 17, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Well, there’s always a Romney thread. Mix that in with a 1st Amendment thread and you’ll have 1,000 comments in no time.
BacaDog on July 17, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Ohh, I don’t know about that. We seem to have a lot of people who worship money.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:07 PM
I’m gonna take a wild guess and say this one’s a Fundy.
Certainly not Catholic.
Actually, barely Christian.
JetBoy on July 17, 2009 at 10:07 PM
As Adams wrote to Jefferson ‘you write ten times better than I do.’
Thank you.
Blacksmith8 on July 17, 2009 at 10:08 PM
I disagree. The afterlife may be great in all, but I have no desire to see it anytime soon. I also don’t see this life is trivial. This isn’t a waiting room for all those souls cuing-up for Heaven (or Hell if your name is “Adolf Hitler), it’s a chance to go forth and have a chance at free will.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Touche
- The Cat
MirCat on July 17, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Our Money is becomming as colorful as yours! ~_^
Kini on July 17, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Uh, until 1818 Conneticut HAD a State Religion… so its kinda hard to say the founders didn’t want it, when THEY didn’t enforce it at the time.
Romeo13 on July 17, 2009 at 10:09 PM
Oh God…..the results would be UNIMAGINABLE. Sort of like mixing baking soda with diet coke and mentos.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:10 PM
This is what “Hey I’m Orthodox and I thought everyone should know at all times” MaximusConfessor AKA SaintOlaf suggested someone else should do.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:10 PM
So it seems about 15-1 here favoring the deist over the atheist, which is about normal. If only we could erect an irrationality pole, one side blue and one side red. On the blue side, we could measure how much faith the idiot puts into the government that assumes he’s a witless child, and on the red side we could measure how much faith the idiot puts into the superstition that assumes he’s a witless child.
Sounds like a fair fight – have at it. This happily conservative atheist will enjoy watching the feud, as he has for quite some time.
elcapt on July 17, 2009 at 10:10 PM
Federal law vs State law
- The Cat
MirCat on July 17, 2009 at 10:11 PM
I could care less. Maybe in the future when the rotting corpse called religion finally dies once and for all we will need a reminder of our stupidity, but we should include all religions and change it to “In God/Government We Trust” or at least pay homage to the Neoconservatives and put God in quotation marks. Reminders of past mistakes are useful in nations where the unwashed masses vote with very little wisdom.
LevStrauss on July 17, 2009 at 10:11 PM
If free will does not exist in heaven, how can it truly be heaven?
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:11 PM
Wow. Took your bigoted carcass long enough.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:12 PM
You’ll make a LOT of friends by calling people “witless children”.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:12 PM
And he was responding to the church because they were concerned about state interfering with the church. His response which has been wrongly used by atheist is that the church is protected from the church being interfered with, not the other way around. It is wrongly interpreted today. Jefferson would be rolling over in his grave. Read the letter he wrote some time. You will find how wrongly it has been used.
It is not legally binding by any means. However, instead of the church interfering with the state, the state is now interfering with the church.
If you wonder why the church is on the side of the gun rights, it is because we know that eventually Christians will be abused and eventually will not be allowed to worship as they wish. It is coming. We know it is.
The church will eventually not be free from the state’s regulation. We will fight it.
Voter from WA State on July 17, 2009 at 10:13 PM
No it doesn’t. It makes it LESS significant.
You are not thinking this out very carefully Estheir.
You are forgetting that if an atheist believes their philosophy.. then their enjoyment or pleasure or suffering make no difference and is also therefore pointless.
Also you are forgetting that if their life does not progress and go to the next stage.. then it was purposeless. And their life (and their actions) by very definition has no meaning whatsoever because they are futile and progress into nothing.
MaximusConfessor on July 17, 2009 at 10:13 PM
That’s interesting–didn’t know that about Connecticut. According to wikipedia it was because they first replaced their colonial charter that year with their first state constitution.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:14 PM
Because I think God has some house rules. One might be “No PS3 after 8 p.m”.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:14 PM
Um, it makes a difference to them. Are you that stupid to think atheists have no self-interest?
Wait, look who I’m asking.
Not if they bear children, or invent something, or create a piece of art, or discover a new species, or find a cure for something, or any of the other activities that even atheists admit make you immortal. If you don’t have a PhD in myopia, you ought to have an honorary one awarded to you.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:17 PM
Of course if you are “immortal” as you put it, you’re still dead. Shoot, Michael Jackson and Elvis are pretty rich right now, too bad they can’t use it. They’re famous, though…….
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:18 PM
Yeah, point is though that the Founders themselves apparently either did not think the modern interpretation of the Establishment clause was correct… or they did not enforce their own clearly written Constitution.
I think the Clause means just what it says… that CONGRESS shall make no law to ESTABLISH a State Religion, nor make laws about how people can worship… its Clearly meant to limit the Federal Congress… not other entities.
Just because Jefferson, ONE of the writers of the Constitution said something in a letter, it does NOT change what the clearly written words SAY.
Romeo13 on July 17, 2009 at 10:19 PM
“…except that, per the Establishment Clause, they do have a point.”
++++++++++++++++
Cut that crap out. Just stop it. The establishment clause addresses freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion…
fabrexe on July 17, 2009 at 10:19 PM
Rah rah Long live Marx and the great society right.
You atheists really are wacko’s.
You’ve been nothing but a plague on society during your entire 100 year history. Grow up. Athiesm died in the 80′s. Don’t be a bitter clinger.
MaximusConfessor on July 17, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Has anyone been following the Mojave Desert Cross case? I think it is supposed to go before the Supreme Court in November? If Sotomayor is confirmed it will be an early test of her on the Establishment Clause.
journeyintothewhirlwind on July 17, 2009 at 10:21 PM
You have the freedom from having religion forced upon you by a third party. The state can’t take sides or become the sugar daddy for a specific religious group. A problem they have been having in Europe for years.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Uhmm… if it’s “dead” why is it still around?
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:22 PM
…and more than 30 years after his death, we’re still talking about Elvis.
Immortality. We may stretch the meaning of the word, since human existence in the span of time is, in fact, finite, but it still means a great deal.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM
Well yes, if you follow the Constitution by the letter each of the fifty states can have endorsed religions. The First Amendment says “Congress shall pass no law” and there is only one Congress recognized in the Constitution, states aren’t required by Federal Law to have legislatures, the Federal Government does not dictate how state governments may be made up. That’s one thing about the Constitution that should emphasized, little words like “right of the people”, “Congress shall pass no law”, etc. These little words are really the most important ones as far as strict constructionism is concerned.
LevStrauss on July 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM
Why won’t Christians accept that America was founded as an elected Theocracy, and accept that there will always be those who chafe at the bit?
OldEnglish on July 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM
That would be the case. If you take a federalist view of the constitution–which I generally do–then conceivably there could be a state (as in one of the 50–or 57 depending on the president) religion. Federal law would still apply to federal buildings and money I would think. So those would still be valid points of contention.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM
Its only MOOOSSSTTTTTLLLLYYYY dead…
(dang, second time today I’ve used that line)
Romeo13 on July 17, 2009 at 10:24 PM
No, AP, I believe that you’re not pro-Communist — just a Francophile. I leave to your judgement which is worse . . .
loneloc on July 17, 2009 at 10:25 PM
What I’m saying is that even though immortality does ease the human psyche a bit it doesn’t help the human condition at all. In many trillions of years, the universe will run out of energy and it won’t matter one way or the other.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:25 PM
He’s a Communist Fascist… the WORST kind!
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:26 PM
No regardless of how the current left/right paradigm is composed Marxists and Religionists are the same, believing in a false utopia that doesn’t exist, the saviors are nothing more than corrupt politicians fleecing you out of your money. Actually before the state had the technological structure to enforce behavior they had to rely on religion, the state couldn’t watch you 24/7 but the invisible man in the sky could so you better listen to him.
Atheism could die for all I care, saying religion is complete and utter bullshit, as it has been in its thousands and millions of forms, does not equate to atheism.
LevStrauss on July 17, 2009 at 10:28 PM
Just read up on it–hadn’t heard of it till you posted about it. I think it was a valid complaint until the ACLU fought selling the land to a private owner. That seemed pretty obnoxious.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:29 PM
Allah,
Have you heard the Dan Barker (Freedom From Religion Foundation) vs. James White (Alpha & Omega Ministries) debate? I think you would find it interestng.
shick on July 17, 2009 at 10:29 PM
It could be argued either way… but putting a fairly generic statement on a wall about some God, while religious in nature, does not really establish a Religion… and unless the saying is put there by LAW?
Romeo13 on July 17, 2009 at 10:29 PM
It does matter if you have interest in dying without regret. I mean, everyone has regrets. However, if there are things you truly want to accomplish before your time runs out, doesn’t the initiative to do something that will remain after you leave in fact drive the human spirit? Sure, many will achieve this through infamy rather than fame, but that’s inevitable.
I sure as hell don’t want to depart this life until I’ve brought a life into this world to enjoy their own life. I also don’t want to leave until I’ve secured a starring role in a stage play, written a book, and seen concealed carry made legal in Wisconsin. I could just as easily argue that if I believed in an afterlife, why would I place any value on any of those things?
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:31 PM
Well you just alienated…..a whole lot of people. Man, even the Buddhists? They’ve never hurt anybody.
Actually if religions is such a false icon why does humanity feel the need to invent it? If atheism is the default mode, why did we change? Just because you are insecure/mad/whatever about your religious/nonreligious identity doesn’t mean you get to rain on my parade.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:31 PM
Thems’ fightin’ words. But nothing AP said in his post seemed Francophilic to me.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:32 PM
Bryan.;..how did that cross establish religion?
CWforFreedom on July 17, 2009 at 10:33 PM
Actually, that was the Marxist justification for atheism.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:34 PM
That would depend on the individual person. If you REALLY wanted to do those things then I’d get them done asap. I don’t think they have concealed carry, books, or plays in heaven. (Could be wrong of course.) I can’t speak for all theists, but I personally feel the same way. I want to live my life to the fullest extent with my friends and family because I never know when my time or there time will be up.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:34 PM
Why do atheists care if In God We Trust is displayed anywhere? Why not just walk by, laugh, and shake your head at the ignorance of us theists?
jimmy2shoes on July 17, 2009 at 10:35 PM
And the great state of the USSR was the freest place in the world! I also heard that Nazi Germany was also very nice.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:35 PM
And in fact Brian how did Congress establish anything with that cross? did they even pass a law putting it there?
CWforFreedom on July 17, 2009 at 10:36 PM
Because down deep they KNOW
CWforFreedom on July 17, 2009 at 10:37 PM
I, personally, do not think that Atheism is the default mode. I am quite prepared to accept that, from the earliest humans, some sort of fear of the unknown has been present. This would be why Atheism is a relatively new movement.
OldEnglish on July 17, 2009 at 10:38 PM
from reading my previous link to the treasury site, it is on the coins BY LAW. Couldn’t say whether that was the case for federal buildings with the saying. I would say the statement referencing a god can only be preferential to certain religions. Whether it’s worth suing over, I would say it isn’t too big of a deal.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:38 PM
Well then I’d say we both should enjoy our lives splendidly.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:39 PM
Humanity needs to invent religion as a coping mechanism. Kinda sucks to know your own mortality.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:40 PM
Suppose they replaced it with “There Is No God But Allah”.
Would you just walk by and laugh?
Neither would I.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:40 PM
It was established as a WWI memorial by congress. Transfer it to private ownership–problem solved. The ACLU was just being a bunch of pricks here I think.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Yeah, tell me about it.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:42 PM
And that sir, is really all that matters.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:42 PM
way to honor our defenders
real nice you assholes
CWforFreedom on July 17, 2009 at 10:43 PM
As you may have noticed most of the atheists on this site are sexual revolutionaries. If theists are right then what the sexual revolutionaries espouse and how they behave in their personal lives is deeply wrong and destructive.
If on the other hand the theists on this site are deluded then they are making a huge mistake and unneccessarily inconveniancing their fellow man and causing disputes over issues that are really no big deal at all.
So, even without going into theology, the combination of social conservatives and sexual revolutionaries, or theists and anti-theists, leads irrevocably to irreconcilable differences.
aengus on July 17, 2009 at 10:45 PM
i see the constitution is lost on many
if you don’t like it change it
it does not state we cannot have religious symbols on federal land
CWforFreedom on July 17, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Well, we are talking about an officially secular state, right? Only one Western nation fits that bill . . . right now.
loneloc on July 17, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Yes, according to this christian web site it was established as a WWI war memorial.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Uhm….what? I’m not sure where that came from but…. if being an atheist means you get to be a “sexual revolutionary” then…. SIGN ME UP!!!
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:47 PM
just about the silliest post of the night bar dcwvu’s posts
CWforFreedom on July 17, 2009 at 10:47 PM
aengus is trying to tell us he is gay
CWforFreedom on July 17, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Ohhhh is THAT what he meant? Darn. I thought “sexual revolutionary” was something a bit more romantic. Sort of like the French revolution…except with more sex….and less guillotine.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:49 PM
Perhaps in practice–funny how it isn’t in law. France still has Catholicism as an official state religion and provides government money to the church.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:49 PM
Heh…funny, I was thinking the same thing.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:50 PM
If it sounds like Karl Marx and acts like Benito Mussilini, it’s probably … … … Barack Obama!
Joe Bloggs on July 17, 2009 at 10:51 PM
And yet they are still morons. I’ve never understood the French. When it came down to ikt in middle school, I totally wnet for the German class. Germans have always struck me as more …. not pansy-ish.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:51 PM
But if you are not in the social engineering game it takes on a completely different context. If what you say is correct than Marxism is admitting that the state and religion are the same exact things, how can that be a selling point for marxism?
LevStrauss on July 17, 2009 at 10:52 PM
LOL. Start practicing your goose-step, comrade.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:52 PM
Once again, it would seem that the hard question is being ignored.
Is, or is not, America a Theocracy?
OldEnglish on July 17, 2009 at 10:53 PM
The French are, well, French–worthy of loathing.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Hey Kini? I’ve gotta borrow this.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Catholicism is the primary religion of France, not the official religion. France is an officially secular state.
loneloc on July 17, 2009 at 10:53 PM
If your life does not progress to the next stage(the future joyous life) then your life has no purpose,no meaning and whatever you do(whether it is pursue pleasure or experience pain)does not matter because it is pointless and futile.
It only gets worse from there but I don’t want to say much more about it because our moderator might just commit suicide when he actually takes a good look at his chosen reactionary and poisionous worldview for the first time..
MaximusConfessor on July 17, 2009 at 10:54 PM
Man, that picture was awesome. I was having a big whiskey-tango-foxtrot moment myself.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 10:55 PM
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