It’s on: Atheists want “In God We Trust” removed from Capitol visitor’s center
posted at 7:34 pm on July 17, 2009 by Allahpundit
We’re never going to have an atheist president, are we?
Besides the one we have now, I mean. OH YES.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Wisconsin-based church-state watchdog group, claimed the engravings are unconstitutional and would exclude the 15% of Americans who identify themselves as non-religious…
Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., who sponsored the bill in the Senate, said historical references to God should not be censored for political correctness.
“The Founders based the Constitution and our laws on religious faith and principles that clear the way for individual freedom,” he said in a statement. “Our true motto, ‘In God We Trust,’ expresses this fact, and we cannot allow a whitewash of America’s religious heritage.”
However, Gaylor said the mottos are inaccurate since “In God We Trust” and the insertion of “under God” into the Pledge of Allegiance were adopted in the 1950s as anti-communist measures.
“They wanted this up there because they think God is the foundation of our government,” Gaylor said. “Boy, are they misinformed.”
Before anyone says something smart-assed, no, atheists aren’t pro-communist. (Not anymore, at least.) I would have let this one go given that (a) no one pays much attention to the “In God We Trust” stuff anyway and (b) the bad press derived from a lawsuit will outweigh the gain from shielding soft-headed believers from a motto engraved in rock except that, per the Establishment Clause, they do have a point. What’s a prudent atheist to do?
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 … 8 Next »
I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think. I’m fed up with these athiest ass*****, and if you want to hold their balls, go ahead.
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:45 PM
Wrong. The majority of us pay attention to that “stuff”. You atheists are in a very small minority. There is no reason why your minority should have control over what the majority of us believe.
And you already have your atheist President. His name is Barack Obama. How can we tell he is an atheist? Because he lies about being a Christian. He is no way a Christian.
Voter from WA State on July 17, 2009 at 8:46 PM
What bloody “support”? Atheism UNDERMINES this country, not supports it! If that’s “support”, then they can bloody keep it.
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:47 PM
I don’t make it a habit to hold other people’s balls, do you?
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 8:47 PM
As usual, your interpretation of the Establishment Clause would make Stalin blush.
Darth Executor on July 17, 2009 at 8:47 PM
You are a charmer and don’t let anyone tell you that your are not.
Cindy Munford on July 17, 2009 at 8:47 PM
Wow. That was enlightening. Did Jesus tell you to be a raging dickhead, or did you come up with that all by yourself?
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Not here to charm, Cindy. As Julius Caesar noted, charm is for lightweights. Go ask Obama.
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:48 PM
I can promise she’ll take your advise to heart.
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 8:48 PM
It’s “advice”, Esthier.
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Esthier and Cindy, can you actually drop the catty girl crap and argue the debate? This is why I have contempt for most women when it comes to politics.
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:49 PM
Obama’s an atheist? I thought he was a muslim? /snark
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Nothing says I love Jesus like a hate filled rant that ends with “hold their balls”. Good job.
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 8:51 PM
There’s the trick question! A “prudent atheist” is an oxymoronic supposition. Prudency examines the past and plans on the future creating the basis of faith. Faith doesn’t readily point directly to God but it unarguably is an act of offering up your trust for your intentions to something more than yourself.
ericdijon on July 17, 2009 at 8:51 PM
Ouch! You caught me with a typo! I don’t know how I’ll recover from the embarrassment!
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 8:51 PM
Canard. That’s not in the Constitution. That’s not even the intent of the establishment clause.
anuts on July 17, 2009 at 8:51 PM
That should leave a mark, but it won’t.
thomasaur on July 17, 2009 at 8:52 PM
You are an a$$. Cindy has been around here a long time–I’ve exchanged comments the rare times that I am around this board, and I have to say I’ve found her to be a very reasonable commenter.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 8:52 PM
If I were you, I’d be more embarassed by the high school, sophomoric girls club you belong to.
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:53 PM
At least I’m not stupid.
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:54 PM
Same creed, different idols.
TMK on July 17, 2009 at 8:54 PM
What’s with the neener-neener fest?
anuts on July 17, 2009 at 8:55 PM
Darn, now I am going to be up all night wondering what I can do to get back in your good graces. Carry on with what ever your purpose for being here is. We girls will just bat our eyes in rapt admiration.
Cindy Munford on July 17, 2009 at 8:55 PM
The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .” The phrase “separation of church and state” is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. ,b>It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.
Google is your friend.
semloh on July 17, 2009 at 8:55 PM
I admit I forgot that Aethism is as much a definition as a political veiw so it is possible for someone to be an Atheist and not an anti Christian Bigot. So I unfairly labeled all Atheists wrongly
My Apologies.
William Amos on July 17, 2009 at 8:55 PM
I’m not hopeful, either.
Now that there’s Comedy Gold.
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 8:56 PM
As is context.
anuts on July 17, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Do you ever actually have something of value to say, or perhaps a thought that is not dependent on others’ opinions?
Better yet, have you ever had an unexpressed thought?
atheling on July 17, 2009 at 8:58 PM
All day long.
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 8:59 PM
Atheling, I’d talk exactly this way to you even if you were a man. You’re a wannabe bully without the actual weight. You are a lightweight and like Obama have no idea due to your overwhelming narcissism.
People like you, only harm Christians, as you show just as much disrespect for Christ as any atheist possibly could, only you go one further by doing so through his name.
I’m not debating the issues here with you, because I agree with you and yet am disgusted that you would be so childish here all while claiming to be a Christian.
Stunts like the one in this post are why people don’t want to vote for an atheist, but people like you are why many have no respect for Christianity. They assume that if someone like you thinks so little of it, then it can’t really be worthwhile. Now I also argue against people who judge Christianity based on Christians, so I’m not excusing that either.
Why are you bothered that they’d want that sign down. If you trusted God, you’d actually prove it through your actions.
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 8:59 PM
I am beginning to think that atheling may be the anti-Christ or SaintOlaf’s sister, but then I repeat myself.
semloh on July 17, 2009 at 9:01 PM
But what purpose would the founders have had for putting in religion in the Constitution? I think the problem you’re having is that you treat the Constitution as if it were a stand alone document, something to be divorced from context, intent, and references.
No, there are no footnotes in the Constitution, so we cannot know that the establishment clause was inspired by Locke’s “Essay On Toleration” for example. What we can note is the parallels in language, the private writings and statements of the founders, and the greater intellectual climate from which it came.
The constitution is merely the establishing of legal and political rights. While it is true that the amendments are an incorporation of elements of both Natural Right theory and the democratic republicanism of the 18th century, it does not mean that these concepts are not enumerated before the constitution, nor does it mean that one should disregard the founding elements of our nation (with the Declaration of Independence being the most powerful embodiment of this). Natural Right is our raison d’etre. And Natural Right is fundamentally Judeo-Christian.
jlerner on July 17, 2009 at 9:01 PM
We’re calling you out for being a b!tch, atheling, not because your socks don’t match your shirt.
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 9:02 PM
Better yet, have you ever had an unexpressed thought?
atheling
Allow me to give you an unexpressed thought:
Think before you type.
If that doesn’t work for you, then piss off.
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 9:02 PM
You might as well just kill yourself.
If there is no point or purpose, then your life is pointless and you might as well just kill yourself now and avoid the future suffering.
MaximusConfessor on July 17, 2009 at 9:03 PM
i guess just go on to hell.
poppieseeds on July 17, 2009 at 9:04 PM
So let me get this right, atheling is ‘Sister Bertha Better Than You”?
thomasaur on July 17, 2009 at 9:04 PM
atheling
You are among your betters, so when you wake up from your semen-induced coma, please show a modicum of respect.
P.S. Modicum is in the dictionary; so is respect.
P.P.S. Go fiddle.
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 9:05 PM
Do you ever…
hillbillyjim on July 17,2009 at 8:59PM.
hillbillyjim: I as well,am soooooooo sick if these
idiots attacking ‘In God We Trust’!
Your on the side of RIGHT,HBJ,pay no
attention to the clown!!–:)
canopfor on July 17, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Allah hates all of you this I know
For the Koran tells me so
Atheists Christians and Jews we bomb
They are weak but we are strong
Yes Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you,
The Koran tells me so.
Allah hates you, you will all die
Blow your ass up to the sky
Say the salat, chop off head,
Eat falafel, go to bed.
Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you! Yes, Allah hates you!
The Koran tells me so.
Aleph on July 17, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Really, that was a woman? Well it appears you ran her off, want get a malt?
Cindy Munford on July 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Hey you little rag headed heathen, how the he!! are ya’?
thomasaur on July 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM
MB4 is that you?
Cindy Munford on July 17, 2009 at 9:10 PM
You would do very well.
True_King on July 17, 2009 at 9:11 PM
canopfor, I love it when these tools show their true colors all by themselves; saves me the trouble.
I want to call attention to the clown–to highlight the insistent ignorance.
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Don’t forget to wear the matching ‘Poodle Skirts’. ; – P
thomasaur on July 17, 2009 at 9:12 PM
“I have often expressed my sentiments, that every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.”
“It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible.”
“Do not let any one claim to be a true American if they ever attempt to remove religion from politics.”
George Washington
jeridhill on July 17, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Rather if someone’s only purpose is hoping for some future far different life then one might as well kill one’s self now so as to get to it that much sooner.
semloh on July 17, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Man, does that mean they are going to give airtime to that creepy Michael Newdow goof again?
pilamaye on July 17, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Once again a dumb a** atheist thinks that a motto inscribed into a rock constitutes congress making a law respecting an establishment of religion, which of course it is not. Read the f*cking First Amendment you idiots!
echosyst on July 17, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Kudos.
hillbillyjim on July 17, 2009 at 9:15 PM
LOL!
Cindy Munford on July 17, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Pretty sure.
I’m game. Who else can we add to our club?
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Even an all powerful being can not have infinite nuance.
semloh on July 17, 2009 at 9:17 PM
True, the context would include the religious beliefs of the founders. The reason to make explicit an appeal to “our creator” would be to justify the authority for the document. Natural Right is all about reliance upon an external authority. The constitution vests all authority in the people.
I will concede that the declaration of independence appeals to god–obviously so–and that the declaration certainly justified the writing of our particular constitution. However, the constitution does not justify in any way why the people have the right to give the government the authority we do. The reason to leave something out is just as important as the reason to put something in. The constitution leaves out god because it is not important to the document how the people god their rights–they have them. Even if our founders believed god was the reason we have those rights, god has nothing to do with our government.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 9:20 PM
No. You are just uneducated.
This is not just all about the future life, for us Orthodox Christians, this is available RIGHT HERE AND NOW.
This is why nearly everyone in the world considers you atheists so ignorant.
There is so much more to reality than what you atheists constrict yourself to perceive.
MaximusConfessor on July 17, 2009 at 9:23 PM
The supply of intelligent gracious women on HotAir is plentiful, we will have no trouble with membership. Ladies who make constant references to the cupping of anyone’s privates must be excluded though, for most of us it is hard to work into a conversation.
Cindy Munford on July 17, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Anyone who has actually studied the things quoted by our Founding Father realize that this is a CHRISTIAN country.
The freedom of religion lets the “outsider” practice whatever religion or no religion they want. It doesn’t mean they can take ours away from us.
Jeff from WI on July 17, 2009 at 9:24 PM
Holy Cow, I can’t remember the last time I saw a comment from holmes spelled backwards. I hope you are well.
Cindy Munford on July 17, 2009 at 9:25 PM
How about “In our creator we trust”. Would that make him happy?
BacaDog on July 17, 2009 at 9:26 PM
When did you start arguing the debate, you worthless troll?
I assure you, both Cindy and Esthier on their worst days are 10 times the woman you could ever hope to be.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 9:27 PM
Challenging a phrase on a rock takes away your religion? How?
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 9:28 PM
OH NO YOU DIDN’T!!!!
I’m sure you are all for voting rights to given only to white males and land owners too right?
Stop argueing for Christianity, you embarass your cause.
portlandon on July 17, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Wow. Not even smart enough to avoid the zingers that got you in trouble before, eh SaintOlaf?
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Actually, she agreed with someone who made that very case. I can link it if you like.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Your cognitive dissonance level is truly astounding, not to mention your extreme un-Christ like persona.
semloh on July 17, 2009 at 9:29 PM
I love my mom and dad, but I don’t see them being the right source of authority for our government. /snark
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 9:29 PM
we are endowed with our rights by our Creator – not the government. This principal places the individual above the state. It’s also at the very heart of the political philosophy of our founding documents. We have the right to worship or not worship according to our own consciences because of this principal. But the concept of a God that has endowed us with free will is one of the most fundamental and earliest principals of American independence. Thus, while we have freedom OF religion, we do not have freedom FROM religion. .
patriette on July 17, 2009 at 9:30 PM
I’m surprised, but I agree with you.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 9:31 PM
It may be that the Establishment Clause was intended to make room for the States to establish their own, respective religions.
Kralizec on July 17, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Just for my education: Are you saying that America is a Theocracy?
OldEnglish on July 17, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Me thinks that MaximusConfessor, aka SaintOalf? and atheling are the Devil’s brother and sister.
Cheshire Cat on July 17, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Why would an atheist who thinks there is no God, spend so much time and effort in combat against something they think isn’t there? That’s what befuddles me.
Hal on July 17, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Holy crap. First I have an aneurysm when I see this:
And I freak out until I see this:
Cause I’m going are you effing kidding me this fraud of a phony Christian sissy douchenozzle President O’Bonehead feminazi is an atheist if I’ve ever seen one and then I come down to the comments and the first one I read is this:
and I’m like whoa I think I’ll go read a nice book or something…
Jaibones on July 17, 2009 at 9:34 PM
I’ll take your word for it. This fool was born in the wrong century.
portlandon on July 17, 2009 at 9:35 PM
One of these posts is wrong. Which one is it?
OldEnglish on July 17, 2009 at 9:36 PM
I’ve never had any problem with atheists, but when they start trying to convince me that THEY are more intelligent because I believe in God and they are more “enlightened”, it start’s to make me mad.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 9:36 PM
I might be wrong, but I recall a constitutional lawyer saying that there’s language somewhere in the Constitution that prohibits states from doing that.
BacaDog on July 17, 2009 at 9:36 PM
I see him as a pirate!
No – a poet!
No – a prince!
A gypsy mopping sweat upon his brow?
Might it be this gypsy of yours stands before you now?
It could be him!
It could be you!
Odd’s fish, it could be me!
This scalawag could be most any sod
Bite your tongue
This thread is about God!
PercyB on July 17, 2009 at 9:36 PM
Obviously you have not fully thought out your philosophy.
Let me help you.
If there is no purpose for your life and you will not reach the future joyous life..then your life has no point and no purpose and you might as well just kill yourself now and save yourself from the future suffering that will inevitably occur.
Neither your happiness nor your suffering mean anything or make any difference anyway right?
MaximusConfessor on July 17, 2009 at 9:39 PM
You’re right. We have a lot of incredible women here.
There are a few for whom its a particular talent. Depending on their wit, I might consider an exception.
Can’t say I’m surprised.
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Just in case there is, they want to have others with them.
It’s hell to be alone……….in hell.
BacaDog on July 17, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Door number 2, Alex. No! Make that door number 1, Alex. No! I better go with door number 2, Alex.
Cheshire Cat on July 17, 2009 at 9:40 PM
America was founded as a Christian nation, which is not the same as the establishment of a national religion–one only need read the writings of Adams, Washington, Madison, and Jefferson, deist though he was, to understand the secular and religious underpinnings of our government (David Barton of Wallbuilders has all sorts of documentation to back this up, lest anyone think I’m pulling it out of a hat). Christianity is the reason other religions are able to exist unmolested. Try that with Islam (which is not simply a religion, but an entire system that engulfs religion, politics, culture, and every other aspect of life).
DrMagnolias on July 17, 2009 at 9:42 PM
And some incredible men with an astounded woman standing near them.
Cheshire Cat on July 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM
So my other question is how in the world is all this ruckus supposed to make me open my eyes to the “obvious” fact that there is no God, ’cause I’m not seeing it.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Atheism, quite simply, is a grown-up version of a stubborn schoolchild plugging one’s ears and shouting “LALALALATHERESNOGOD!!11!!1!1″
Difference is they don’t seem to mind mocking, suing and in extreme cases murdering (see the Roman Empire and the Soviet Union) those who dare to believe in a supernatural being.
Yours.
Dark-Star on July 17, 2009 at 9:45 PM
It’s not. If anything, slapping god on our money and our government buildings just proves to me that I should always be wary of having too much faith in either.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Just because someone doesn’t believe there is life after death, it doesn’t mean their life is without meaning.
If anything, believing this is it, makes their life more meaningful to them than to those who believe this life is a short interlude to the hereafter.
Esthier on July 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM
The best way to dispel the “atheist life has no meaning” bs.
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Damn, you’re a despicable pile of dung.
MadisonConservative on July 17, 2009 at 9:48 PM
I can tell you that expecting either one to always make life easy for you is sure a dead-end road. Especially the latter.
Dark-Star on July 17, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Obviously you have not fully thought out your selection of your current psychiatrist as he is obviously a quack.
Call my secretary on Monday to schedule an appointment and let me help you.
Sigmund on July 17, 2009 at 9:49 PM
Nothing say”s “i don’t believe in god” like mocking Christians and telling them “is that what Jesus would do?”
1) Go to hell
2) that can not offend you, since you think hell does not exist
3) Jesus will cry for you when your in hell, but the rest of us won’t. we will just laugh as you scream…and appologize
Donut on July 17, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Everyone DOES realize that those in charge here are chuckling because a topic like this will get everyone going like Pavlov’s dogs & the bell.
Jeff from WI on July 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM
is that what Jesus would do?
…too tempting
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM
I’m not sure I’m following you. I believe in an afterlife, something that I do not wish to see for a very very long time, and that somehow makes me want to carpe diem less? That is a little bit illogical. No matter where I’m spending eternity, I kind of like it here, thanks.
Rightwingguy on July 17, 2009 at 9:55 PM
If Not In GOD We Trust, Then WHO?
Certainly not Democrats, neither Republicans nor Libertarians, Progressives, Communists, etc, etc, etc.
I just know GOD is DOG spelled backwards and my dog looks at me like I look at him. It keeps my wallet and my heart happy.
Trust is not an issue in this context.
Kini on July 17, 2009 at 9:55 PM
They’ve gotta live up to the blogs name, don’t they?
BryanS on July 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM
You want to claim him? Go right ahead.
- The Cat
MirCat on July 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 … 8 Next »