Bombshell: CBO chief tells Congress ObamaCare will “significantly expand” federal spending; Report: Bipartisan deal close?

posted at 2:20 pm on July 16, 2009 by Allahpundit

I’m using “bombshell” unironically. You and I know that it’ll explode spending but The One’s actually been pitching this boondoggle — insanely — as a cost-saving measure, even though it’s common knowledge that ObamaCare 1.0, a.k.a. Medicare, is well on its way to bankrupting America.

The cat’s all the way out of the bag now.

Conrad: Dr. Elmendorf, I am going to really put you on the spot because we are in the middle of this health care debate, but it is critically important that we get this right. Everyone has said, virtually everyone, that bending the cost curve over time is critically important and one of the key goals of this entire effort. From what you have seen from the products of the committees that have reported, do you see a successful effort being mounted to bend the long-term cost curve?

Elmendorf: No, Mr. Chairman. In the legislation that has been reported we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount. And on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs…

As we wrote in our letter to you and Senator Gregg, the creation of a new subsidy for health insurance, which is a critical part of expanding health insurance coverage in our judgement, would by itself increase the federal responsibility for health care that raises federal spending on health care. It raises the amount of activity that is growing at this unsustainable rate and to offset that there has to be very substantial reductions in other parts of the federal commitment to health care, either on the tax revenue side through changes in the tax exclusion or on the spending side through reforms in Medicare and Medicaid. Certainly reforms of that sort are included in some of the packages, and we are still analyzing the reforms in the House package. Legislation was only released as you know two days ago. But changes we have looked at so far do not represent the fundamental change on the order of magnitude that would be necessary to offset the direct increase in federal health costs from the insurance coverage proposals.

It’s a month to the day since the first time Elmendorf kneecapped Hopenchange by announcing that not only would an early iteration of ObamaCare cost a trillion dollars over the next decade, it would still leave millions uninsured. The money question now: Will this further embolden the Blue Dogs to torpedo the House bill? They’ve got tons of media momentum behind them, believe it or not. Drudge is leading with the New York Post’s story about a 57% combined income tax rate in New York City on top earners once the ObamaCare surtax passes while ABC flags a study showing that combined top tax rates in fully 39 states will soar to over 50% as well. The public’s not buying The One’s crap about how the rich are going to pay for this either: According to Rasmussen, 78% expect the tax burden for ObamaCare to trickle down to the middle class. And in McClatchy’s new poll, the split between those who think expanding coverage is top priority and those who think top priority is controlling costs is now just two points, within the margin of error — even as the number who say the country’s on the right track has dropped 12 points since June, confirming the Hotline poll from yesterday. Like Karl says, the mask is off and The One’s political capital is at ebb tide. If fiscal conservatives can’t stop ObamaCare now — or at least vastly improve it — then we never will.

Update: Even supersquishy Olympia Snowe’s getting cold feet:

But beyond policy, Snowe and other moderates are bristling at the time table set by President Obama – he wants bills passed through the House and Senate before the bodies leave for their August recess on August 7.

She told reporters last night that’s probably not enough time. And she pointed to the creation of Medicare in the 1960s, which she said took a lot longer than the time table set out by Democrats this year.

Update: A must-read post from Kaus. If you’d told me in advance that ObamaCare would run into problems, the very last reason I’d anticipate would be poor salesmanship by Obama. And yet:

He lectures: It’s also time, Obama tells his viewers, to lose weight, and stop smoking, and pull up your socks. Later on he tells people that they are foolish to prefer brand name drugs to generic drugs, and to want multiple medical tests. “If you only need one test, why do you want five tests?” Stop clinging to your tests! You’re worse than those people in Pennsylvania.

Who knew we were electing a national mother-in-law? And get a chance to endure increased taxes for the privilege. Obama’s supposed to be rallying support from voters, not castigating them. Outside the S& M parlor, most people do not enjoy paying to be disciplined.

Update: Uh oh.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus(D-Mont.) said Thursday that he hopes to have a bipartisan deal on a health care reform bill by the end of the day.

He made the remarks after huddling for about two hours with five Finance Committee members most closely involved in the negotiations. It was the first time Baucus acknowledged a time frame for reaching an agreement.

“We are meeting very aggressively today,” Baucus said of the bipartisan group, which plans to meet again at 1:30 p.m. “We will keep meeting all day long. I hope we can reach some kind of agreement by the end of the day, but having said that, it depends on what kind it is.”

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Profits are only a “problem” when the government stands to make money on something.

LibTired on July 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM

I don’t agree with the notion of eliminating private plans entirely, such as in the current House version. Frankly, I’m scratching my head as to why that’s in there.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM

What, in all of your personal experience or study, has ever led you to the conclusion that a powerful government is benevolent? That they don’t seek as much control as possible over individuals? What could POSSIBLY inspire this faith you have in the restraint and good intent of the State?

If you’re really scratching your head over this, then you have ignored reality for quite some time.

Animator Girl on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

You’re destroying AnninCA’s entire argument. You really should be nicer.

The cut-and-paste is annoying, but just take a look at Wellpoint.

That covers 80% of Iowa, for example.

Look at the increase in their profits over 2 years.

It makes the mortgage industry look lazy by comparison, and we all know why THEY were making money. *haha

Seriously, google. go look for yourself.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

thomasaur on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Hey leave my big burgers alone. I run everyday and can afford to have a calorie buster ever once in a while. :)

chemman on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Why should you be allowed to make a profit on burgers at all? Food is more important than health care. Why doesn’t the government just take over all restaurants and supermarkets?

eyedoc on July 16, 2009 at 3:41 PM

The government is taking the fat-tax approach to burgers and such. Eventually, they will open up a Federal Government Burger Chain – where everyone is force-fed the govenrment apporved meal – but currently they are working hard to just restrict our choices in that area … speaking of which, nanny prick Bloomberg is at the Sotomayor joke hearing, now.

progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html

This is interesting- profit margins for comparison.

Monica on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Ha! Apologies for getting off topic, but I would like everyone to look at what industry comes in dead last according to this list. Good times. Good times.

anuts on July 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM

These retards in Congress better realize that they risk all of their seats if they do this President’s bidding anymore.

JAM on July 16, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I want a lot more than their seats. A lot more. I want permanence.

progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM

The cut-and-paste is annoying, but just take a look at Wellpoint.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

3.8% margin. Is that excessive?

lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:46 PM

What, in all of your personal experience or study, has ever led you to the conclusion that a powerful government is benevolent?

My healthcare ideas aren’t about “benevolence.” What I really think we need is way too forward-thinking, I am guessing. But I also think piecemealing, as we’ve been doing, has led to a reimbursement mess.

We need an overall plan that changes that.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:46 PM

MSNBC Is already supporting this. Of course, I only tune in once a month so they may have been doing it for some time.

P. S. GE will die withour Cap & ‘fraid.

And what will NBC and MSNBC do? What will they do?

IlikedAUH2O on July 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM

How foolish!

GOOGLE posted record profits in 2006, then again in 2007. Should we carpet bomb Mountain View, CA to pay for the sins of Google Earth??????

–Wait—wait—-unles—-”excess profits”—-is only a problem—–when it’s insurance, banks, or oil!

Could it be????? You’re a hyprocrite/???

battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM

Said just the same thing in person to a silicon valley uber lib who wanted to see doctors become employees of the state. I asked if she wanted her extremely well-paid google exec husband to be an employee of the state. I’ve never seen her shut up before.

JiangxiDad on July 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Look at the increase in their profits over 2 years.

It makes the mortgage industry look lazy by comparison, and we all know why THEY were making money. *haha

Seriously, google. go look for yourself.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

I’d LOVE to know your theory on why “the mortgage industry” (is that real) “was making money”, because I’m betting it’s about 60% Oprah, 30% Micheal Moore, and 10% tears.

Please, tell me about the situation of Lehman Brothers, being overleveraged at 30:1.

Tell me all about mortgage backed securities, and why they used to work but didn’t work in 2008.

I’d love to hear why you think “they were making money”.

*gets popcorn*

(sorry to be harsh to you, but seriously, you have no qualms with DESIRING the end of my health care as I know it, so deal with it!)

battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM

Frankly, I’m scratching my head as to why that’s in there.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Power, control, hubris of the elite that think they know better. If you couldn’t come up with the above you need to sue the schools that educated you in California because they didn’t teach you any credible thinking skills.

chemman on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM

Give us some of your business / finance related credentials.

Jed_Eckert on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Lorien, we’re looking at different numbers. I provided my site.

Now, your turn.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html

This is interesting- profit margins for comparison.

Monica on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Ha! Apologies for getting off topic, but I would like everyone to look at what industry comes in dead last according to this list. Good times. Good times.

anuts on July 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Don’t forget to note what is next to last, either.

Vashta.Nerada on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

The cut-and-paste is annoying, but just take a look at Wellpoint.

That covers 80% of Iowa, for example.

Look at the increase in their profits over 2 years.

It makes the mortgage industry look lazy by comparison, and we all know why THEY were making money. *haha

Seriously, google. go look for yourself.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

You’re looking at the WRONG table. That’s gross profits.

Click on the tab that says profits as a percentage of revenues (that’s after expenses are taken out).

Note the LARGEST value there is 8%

Skywise on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Doesn’t California have some kind of state funded health care?? California Care..something like that?? How’s that working out??

Is that what this is all about? Hey, let’s Federalize just one of our complete failures so the rest of the country can pitch in and keep my state from swirling down the crapper.

Is BOBINMA all behind it too??

BigWyo on July 16, 2009 at 3:49 PM

Well, freakin’ DUH! It’s hard not to be cynical when the obvious begins to slap the ignorant in the face.

jimmy2shoes on July 16, 2009 at 3:49 PM

Now, your turn.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

What if they had a 25% profit margin? Who the #$%@# cares?

JEWELERS make about 50% profit margin on their goods they sell, for a small example; ditto furniture stores.

Why aren’t there mobs of people with pitchforks screaming

“HE WENT TO JARED!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!”

battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:49 PM

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Here

Again. Is 3.8% excessive?

lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:49 PM

I left Canada 30 years ago to get away from this goverment medical care. It becomes chronically underfunded by 1-2% or more annually.

At first it seems OK, but 10-20 years down the road, there is no innovation, everything is falling apart, no new technology and long waits because all the MDs have quit or left.

So, if this crap passes into law – I am going to try and limit my practice to those who didn’t vote for Obama. I already don’t take Medicare or Medicaid. How about a clinic in Cayman or Belize?

txdoc on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

You’re looking at the WRONG table. That’s gross profits.

Skywise on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

HAHAHAHA.

SPIT. OUT. MY. COKE.

Who’d have thought that “AnninCA” was clueless as to income statements, balance sheets, quarterly reports, etc….

and here i thought she was a wall street wizard!

battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 2:51 PM

You have to study the master works of different media. The NYT, for example, will keep it all straightfor you. Even including the sparkling results as they come in!.

IlikedAUH2O on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

We need an overall plan that changes that.

Stop all government (state and federal) mandates as to what a health insurance policy must offer. Leave it up to the Free Market.

chemman on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Give us some of your business / finance related credentials.

Oh gosh, zip. I was a vice president in the savings and loan industry. BUT….in communications. So that doesn’t really count, other than I wrote all this stuff. I worked with employee communications/public relations/investor relations/executive compensation…but my primary qualification for having an opinion? Employee benefits was my forte.

I was honored by the top business association as being benefits communicator of the year.

LOL*

Bought a new suit and gave the keynote address.

Thanks for asking. It’s sort of fun to remember.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

If they force this garbage down our throats they are in for a rude surprise.

What these thieving leftists fail to see is that they are pushing this country into insurrection.
elduende on July 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM

I never thought I would live to believe this. I have ancestors that lived here before the Revolutionary War and some that fought in it, and I am more than concerned about the outcome of all this. I called several senators on the list and their staff did not sound like they are going to vote for this, but I don’t know.

txmomof6 on July 16, 2009 at 3:51 PM

Why aren’t there mobs of people with pitchforks screaming

“HE WENT TO JARED!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!”

battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:49 PM

L FREAKIN’ OL

thomasaur on July 16, 2009 at 3:51 PM

txdoc on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Might that be because they are living off the innovations of our current “broken” system?
My oh my what will happen if we adopt their policies?

chemman on July 16, 2009 at 3:52 PM

My healthcare ideas aren’t about “benevolence.”

They don’t seem to be about much of anything other than “trust the government” which is exactly the opposite of the motivation behind the structure of our Constitution.

What I really think we need is way too forward-thinking, I am guessing.

Er … not too full of yourself, there, are you? Forward-thinking? You seem to have problems dealing with current reality and the actual structure of our nation.

But I also think piecemealing, as we’ve been doing, has led to a reimbursement mess.

We need an overall plan that changes that.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:46 PM

Uh … er … uh … You have no idea what you’re saying (which might be a point in your favor). Our problems arise from poor legislation and stupid court rulings that force costs on us, not from “piecemealing”, as you put it.

progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Lorien, we’re looking at different numbers. I provided my site.

Now, your turn.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

You seem genuinely confused about the difference between gross profit and a profit margin. A company that makes 3% on its money is barely staying ahead of inflation, no matter how much money it makes overall. A 3% profit margin is miniscule.

BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

I don’t agree with the notion of eliminating private plans entirely, such as in the current House version. Frankly, I’m scratching my head as to why that’s in there.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM

You don’t know why that is in there? It’s called lust for control!

True_King on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Wellpoint….

revenues….58%
Profits……26%

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

I was a vice president in the savings and loan industry. BUT….in communications. So that doesn’t really count, other than I wrote all this stuff.
Thanks for asking. It’s sort of fun to remember.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

You were a VP – who wrote stuff….. Interesting.

Vashta.Nerada on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

From the Uh Oh link:

But in meeting Thursday with Obama, Sen. Olympia Snowe (D-Maine) said she tried to convince the president to push back his timeline. But the president said he was “concerned” about waiting until the fall to pass a bill, Snowe said.

When did the press notice that Snowe was a Democrat?

OBQuiet on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:48 PM

Pushing your policies and ideas on the country in the face of such resistance will eventually lead to violence. Is that what you really want?

elduende on July 16, 2009 at 3:54 PM

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Net profit margin, idiot. 3.8%.

Again is that excessive?

lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:54 PM

What I really think we need is way too forward-thinking, I am guessing.

Saying your ideas for fixing Health Care are just too forward-thinking for America right now is a lot like saying Communism would work in a perfect world…. we don’t live in a perfect world, so what’s the point of discussing a system that will not function in actual reality? Why not try a system that will work in the real world? Like the free market, for instance?

I also don’t understand what exactly these forward-thinking ideas are. You say you support nationalized health care, but not certain provisions or iterations of it. It’s hard to keep up with what you really think and it leads one to believe you don’t fully understand the subject.

Animator Girl on July 16, 2009 at 3:54 PM

The cut-and-paste is annoying, but just take a look at Wellpoint.

That covers 80% of Iowa, for example.

Look at the increase in their profits over 2 years.

It makes the mortgage industry look lazy by comparison, and we all know why THEY were making money. *haha

Seriously, google. go look for yourself.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

Have you adjusted their absolute profits for acquisiotons and / or sales of business units? And, while in the general area, do you know what are included in GAAP profits? Do you know what GAAP stands for?

Jed_Eckert on July 16, 2009 at 3:55 PM

Wellpoint….

revenues….58%
Profits……26%

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Correction: you were a VP – who can’t read a simple stock chart.

Vashta.Nerada on July 16, 2009 at 3:55 PM

You were a VP – who wrote stuff….. Interesting.

While I would love to puff that up, it’s a middle-management position in banking.

I never broke through to senior management. Came close!

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:56 PM

Well howdy doody, it’s the AnninCa show?

scalleywag on July 16, 2009 at 3:56 PM

I don’t agree with the notion of eliminating private plans entirely, such as in the current House version. Frankly, I’m scratching my head as to why that’s in there.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM

Because this really isn’t about getting every American quality health care. It’s about money, control, and power. Ask any nation with socialized medicine. The benefits, and medical needs get cut, or diminish in quality, while the taxes to pay for it, go up. If anyone truly believes this has anything to do with health care, the are sadly mistaken.

capejasmine on July 16, 2009 at 3:56 PM

When did the press notice that Snowe was a Democrat?

OBQuiet on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

I thought she was a Communist? Did she move down even further?

progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:57 PM

Wellpoint….

revenues….58%
Profits……26%

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

This is unbelievably frustrating. You genuinely don’t know the difference between gross profits and profit margins, yet here you are vigourously debating a complex issue and thinking we’re all wrong.

It’s not even mildly surprising that President Obama chooses to just lie in speech after speech, with people like you there to soak it all up.

BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Wellpoint….

revenues….58%
Profits……26%

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:53 PM

Wellpoint – Profits as a percentage of revenues – 5% of assets 9%

Skywise on July 16, 2009 at 3:58 PM

This is unpopular with the majority of Americans, if it passes the fit will hit the shan. Tax increases of this size should not be in the hands of a few people beholding to special interest groups. (lawyers)

thomasaur on July 16, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Pushing your policies and ideas on the country in the face of such resistance will eventually lead to violence. Is that what you really want?

Violence? That’s about personal choices and, no, I have nothing to do with that.

I suppose Bush’s war could be blamed for “violence.”

I disagree. That’s about people and their intolerance or violent natures.

Me? I just might pop off verbally here once in a while.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:59 PM

“We are meeting very aggressively today,” Baucus said of the bipartisan group, which plans to meet again at 1:30 p.m. “We will keep meeting all day long. I hope we can reach some kind of agreement by the end of the day,

……because the Sotomayer hearings will be over soon and people might actually begin to notice that we are bankrupting the country and dooming millions to pain and misery.

Wine_N_Dine on July 16, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Why Government Can’t Run a Business

The Obama administration is bent on becoming a major player in — if not taking over entirely — America’s health-care, automobile and banking industries. Before that happens, it might be a good idea to look at the government’s track record in running economic enterprises. It is terrible.

In 1913, for instance, thinking it was being overcharged by the steel companies for armor plate for warships, the federal government decided to build its own plant. It estimated that a plant with a 10,000-ton annual capacity could produce armor plate for only 70% of what the steel companies charged.

When the plant was finally finished, however — three years after World War I had ended — it was millions over budget and able to produce armor plate only at twice what the steel companies charged. It produced one batch and then shut down, never to reopen.

Or take Medicare. Other than the source of its premiums, Medicare is no different, economically, than a regular health-insurance company. But unlike, say, UnitedHealthcare, it is a bureaucracy-beclotted nightmare, riven with waste and fraud. Last year the Government Accountability Office estimated that no less than one-third of all Medicare disbursements for durable medical equipment, such as wheelchairs and hospital beds, were improper or fraudulent. Medicare was so lax in its oversight that it was approving orthopedic shoes for amputees.

These examples are not aberrations; they are typical of how governments run enterprises. There are a number of reasons why this is inherently so. Among them are:

- more -

Joe Bloggs on July 16, 2009 at 4:00 PM

This is unpopular with the majority of Americans, if it passes the fit will hit the shan. Tax increases of this size should not be in the hands of a few people beholding to special interest groups. (lawyers)

I agree with you the process is very messy right now, and people are unsure. But overall, polls show that people DO want reform. It was a key issue in the election.

What and how it works? They have completely confused people.

It’s hard to even talk about it, since there are so many versions floating around for discussion.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

It’s hard to even talk about it, since there are so many versions floating around for discussion.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

To which a reasonable person would reply, “Then what is the rush, let’s analyze this and do it right.”

txmomof6 on July 16, 2009 at 4:02 PM

I agree with you the process is very messy right now, and people are unsure. But overall, polls show that people DO want reform. It was a key issue in the election.

What and how it works? They have completely confused people.

It’s hard to even talk about it, since there are so many versions floating around for discussion.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Can you please stop voting? You are messing things up for thinking people.

Vashta.Nerada on July 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM

The only answer to health care is to cut out the insurance companies and government middlemen.

Rae on July 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM

Thanks for asking. It’s sort of fun to remember.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Savings & Loan industry.

How are they doing these days??

Things are beginning to become clear.

BigWyo on July 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM

I was a vice president in the savings and loan industry. BUT….in communications. So that doesn’t really count, other than I wrote all this stuff.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

I’m calling bullshit on your being a VP of anything but fantasyland. You clearly don’t understand the concept of profit MARGIN. You’re embarrassing youself- you should quit now while you’re way behind.

Monica on July 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:59 PM

People have had it with US Government intrusion into their lives. Heavy handed government of the type you advocate never ends well. Its human nature. I’ve seen it countless times in Latin America from left and right. I know you don’t see it but its there and it will happen. Human nature never changes.

elduende on July 16, 2009 at 4:04 PM

It’s hard to even talk about it, since there are so many versions floating around for discussion.

Maybe there are a lot of versions up for discussion, but there is only one version up for a vote right now. Will you cheer if it is passed, or are you able to recognize the damage it will cause in its current form?

Animator Girl on July 16, 2009 at 4:04 PM

But overall, polls show that people DO want reform. It was a key issue in the election.

What and how it works? They have completely confused people.

It’s hard to even talk about it, since there are so many versions floating around for discussion.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Reform is different than overhaul and destruction. And there aren’t a bunch of versions floating around for discussion, there’s one. One massive bill being shoved down America’s collective throat before the August recess.

BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 4:04 PM

The only answer to health care is to cut out the insurance companies and government middlemen and other third party payers like employers that skew market decisions.

Rae on July 16, 2009 at 4:03 PM

FIFY

txmomof6 on July 16, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Why would any Republican sign on to this…when the polls are showing more and more are concerned about the cost and impact.
If the dems want it that bad, they have the votes.
This is something so massive that the program needs to be debated for months, maybe years, to get all the details out.
Once out, people won’t select it…the government has never shown restraint, of effectiveness on any of their programs.
Just the thought, no just the illegality, of government competing with private enterprise is absolutely shocking that anyone would consider this bill.
As plain as it gets…it is illegal for the federal or state government to compete with private enterprise.

right2bright on July 16, 2009 at 4:06 PM

Are you ready? The new health bill is called by the initials QAHCAA!! (pronounced ka-ka) LMAO!! Boehner’s right, it is a pile os S–t!

elclynn on July 16, 2009 at 4:06 PM

The cut-and-paste is annoying, but just take a look at Wellpoint.

That covers 80% of Iowa, for example.

Look at the increase in their profits over 2 years.

It makes the mortgage industry look lazy by comparison, and we all know why THEY were making money. *haha

Seriously, google. go look for yourself.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:44 PM

You do realize that the health industry field provides millions upon millions of jobs for about 20-50 different professional careers.

So what will happen to the professionals that lose their jobs as a result of this? Government jobs? Not likely. Those jobs will be eliminated – permanently, making what is already a very bad situation, much much worse. Not to mention the huge government revenue losses as a result of lost jobs.

So you’re promoting even more job losses. That’s excellent business sense, moron.

leetpriest on July 16, 2009 at 4:06 PM

But overall, polls show that people DO want reform.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Well that’s a little vague, don’t you think? Even if we were to assume that polls are accurate let alone the be all end all; of that what do you suppose the percentage makeup of reform on the less government intrusion side is (ie tort reform)?

anuts on July 16, 2009 at 4:07 PM

I agree with you the process is very messy right now, and people are unsure. But overall, polls show that people DO want reform. It was a key issue in the election.

What and how it works? They have completely confused people.

It’s hard to even talk about it, since there are so many versions floating around for discussion.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

But nobody wanted socialized medicine.

The only way, ONLY WAY, Government will keep the price down is by rationing health care.

the old the very sick and infirm will HAVE TO DIE. Obama said it himself.

Skywise on July 16, 2009 at 4:07 PM

While I would love to puff that up, it’s a middle-management position in banking.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:56 PM

First, and with no malice: “in banking” “banker”.

Are you equating a Wharton MBA with HR experience. I am not demeaning HR people, don’t take it that way. But my experience with HR is that they know what things cost, not why they cost what they do. You are claiming to know why and you have yet to establish why you know why.

Jed_Eckert on July 16, 2009 at 4:07 PM

Quality Affordable Health Coverage for All Americans. Still cracks me up…….Ka-ka

elclynn on July 16, 2009 at 4:08 PM

It’s hard to even talk about it, since there are so many versions floating around for discussion.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

No, only one massive version…the democrats version.

Please enlighten us to your “many versions”…

right2bright on July 16, 2009 at 4:08 PM

I was honored by the top business association as being benefits communicator of the year.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM

That honor is legitimate only if a man bestowed it on you, right, Ann? Know what I mean, wink wink?

LastRick on July 16, 2009 at 4:09 PM

If it were up to me I would show Pres. Obama telling people to look into Hospice and/or take a pill for pain instead of expecting surgery. I think he has been really “transparent” but not empathetic to people who are getting older. Many people make the decisions that he is suggesting but it’s their choice. As it should be.

Cindy Munford on July 16, 2009 at 4:09 PM

People have had it with US Government intrusion into their lives. Heavy handed government of the type you advocate never ends well. Its human nature. I’ve seen it countless times in Latin America from left and right. I know you don’t see it but its there and it will happen. Human nature never changes.

elduende on July 16, 2009 at 4:04 PM

She’s in California. It’s happening right before her eyes. She just advocates it.

anuts on July 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Insult away. I don’t take stuff personally.

What I personally would like to see is a low-cost healthcare delivery system that is based on practices, with doctors taking care of stuff that is outside of protocol or involved in research.

That’s what I meant by overly “forward” thinking.

You do not need a doctor for smoking cessation pills, flu, or even a lot of the common ailments that afflict most people beyond a certain age.

They need to radically shift their thinking.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM

This isn’t going well. I have a feeling a huge distraction in on the way.

SouthernGent on July 16, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Ace is reporting the AMA trustees have endorsed this.

True_King on July 16, 2009 at 4:11 PM

You do not need a doctor for smoking cessation pills, flu, or even a lot of the common ailments that afflict most people beyond a certain age.

They need to radically shift their thinking.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM

Says the person who never went to medical or nursing school.

txmomof6 on July 16, 2009 at 4:12 PM

Oh, Southern Gent….I bow out at a certain point and let the naysayers enjoy.

I definitely disagree with the GOP on this issue. Always will. But I am respectful of opposing opinions.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:12 PM

This is just about the ugliest legislative process I’ve ever seen. The Senate Bill:
* Raises taxes on hundreds of thousands of businesses, pushing people on to the public option by disemployment effects;
* May well lead to tens of millions being dropped on to the public option from employer-provided plans they “liked”;
* Raises taxes on people who might well not buy insurance because they can’t afford it to begin with.

The House Bill:
* Raises taxes on job creating upper-middle-class earners with Schedule C income or subchapter S companies.

One or the other of them (the Senate bill, I think) will toss a bunch of people into Medicaid and stiff the States with the bill in 5 years

etc. etc. etc.

… and at the same time, apparently the Senate Bill leaves 34 million still uninsured?

WTFingF?

DrSteve on July 16, 2009 at 4:12 PM

To be fair, the house bill doesn’t REALLY eliminate private insurance on page 16. Over on page 19 they allow insurance companies who are members of an exchnage to right policies. Of course, those exhanges will have their own layer of rules, on top of the layer of rules that ALREADY exist, and the layer of rules Congress imposes here (like not allowing any changes to rates based on pre-existing conditions, which is really not allowing adjustments based on risk).

So they’ll technically allow insurance companies to continue, but they’ll make them play twister in order to qualify.

hawksruleva on July 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Ace is reporting the AMA trustees have endorsed this.

Endorsed what? My idea? I am hoping that’s what you mean. It’s logical.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM

My pitchfork’s ready. Pretty sure I can whip up a torch, too, and find some tar, pluck some pigeons.

If that don’t work, a FAL might.

TinMan13 on July 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM

So there is a compromise already? They are going to shove this boondoggle down our throats so they can party over their summer vacation.

Go**am these elitist pricks, they have no idea what they are about to do or what they are going to make Americans do in response.

Bishop on July 16, 2009 at 4:14 PM

how can we support a legal challenge to this monster?

gatorboy on July 16, 2009 at 4:14 PM

This isn’t going well. I have a feeling a huge distraction in on the way.

SouthernGent on July 16, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Let’s see. Tomorrow’s Friday. Michael Jackson autopsy is expected out late this week.

Nah – I don’t see any way that the healthcare deal gets pushed off center stage…

hawksruleva on July 16, 2009 at 4:14 PM

So they’ll technically allow insurance companies to continue, but they’ll make them play twister in order to qualify.

We’ll see an explanation soon, I am guessing. I don’t get this at all.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:15 PM

So there is a compromise already? They are going to shove this boondoggle down our throats so they can party over their summer vacation.

Go**am these elitist prikks, they have no idea what they are about to do or what they are going to make Americans do in response.

Bishop on July 16, 2009 at 4:15 PM

So they’ll technically allow insurance companies to continue, but they’ll make them play twister in order to qualify.

hawksruleva on July 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM

nope – sorry. They’ll pick up the ball and go home

gatorboy on July 16, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Endorsed what? My idea? I am hoping that’s what you mean. It’s logical.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM

Ann, can you tell me how much the health care plan will save? That’s the point of the legislation, right? I’ve heard a lot of talk about how much it will COST, but I haven’t seen the number on the other side.

We’re not spending Trillions without a solid expectation of some larger amount of savings are we? Becuase if we spend trillions, and save millions, we DID NOT SAVE ANYTHING.

hawksruleva on July 16, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Please tell me that not one (R) will vote for this crap….or is that wishful thinking?

cmsinaz on July 16, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Apparently the AMA is endorsing this plan (no link.) We’re screwed.

BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 4:17 PM

My other “forward-thinking” idea is in line with Obama’s ideas, I think. Anyway, I think a lot of the waste comes in the way we’re collecting up and reimbursing.

It’s just plain stupid. We have the technology to simplify and streamline.

So do it.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:17 PM

We’re not spending Trillions without a solid expectation of some larger amount of savings are we? Becuase if we spend trillions, and save millions, we DID NOT SAVE ANYTHING.

No, of course I don’t.

I am sympathetic with the fears about this if we don’t also tackle healthcare delivery.

That is a lynchpin to any savings.

And right now? It’s a muddle.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM

AMA linky

“The status quo is unacceptable,” Dr. Rohack said. “We support passage of H.R. 3200, and we look forward to additional constructive dialogue as the long process of passing a health reform bill continues. This is an important step, but one of many steps in the process. The AMA is actively engaged with Congress and the administration to achieve health reform that best meets the needs of patients and physicians. We are committed to passing health reform this year consistent withprinciples of pluralism, freedom of choice, freedom of practice, and universal access for patients.”

gatorboy on July 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM

To which a reasonable person would reply, “Then what is the rush, let’s analyze this and do it right.”

txmomof6 on July 16, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Exactly!!! 100% correct. What IS the rush? Because they don’t want every member of the house, or senate to read this bill. They don’t want the public to read this bill. If this were such a great deal, they’d allow us to read it, and awe in it’s magnificence. Instead, we get chastized, berated, and lied to. If someone has to be so covert, and out right lie to the public about this, it’s bad, bad , bad.

Reform yes. Government controlled health care? NO NO NO!!!

capejasmine on July 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM

You do not need a doctor for smoking cessation pills, flu, or even a lot of the common ailments that afflict most people beyond a certain age.

They need to radically shift their thinking.

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:10 PM


Actually you do need a doctor for the flu, especially if you are in a risk group with higher incidence of flu related deaths. Many ailments are now treated by nurse practitioners.

What you really need is tort reform. I have a friend that is an OBGYN. She said the first thing she does if she needed to use foreceps is to call her lawyer.

Jed_Eckert on July 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM

AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:17 PM

But first enlighten to the “many versions” you referenced.

right2bright on July 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM

But overall, polls show that people DO want reform.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Correct–however, “health care reform” is being used as a proxy for “socialized medicine.”

This is akin to saying I’m for “home remodeling.”–and then going in and painting all the walls pink. Well, it was remodeled…

The misdirected jingos that these libs use in order to frame debates are staggering. “Choice” is a proxy for “murder” and “reform” is the proxy for “socialization.”

Anyone else see the pattern???/

ted c on July 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM

nope – sorry. They’ll pick up the ball and go home

gatorboy on July 16, 2009 at 4:16 PM

Well, sure. Just like they did in Florida, with the house insurance market. Very informative lesson, there.
http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/648isrdp.asp

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/storm/content/business/epaper/2009/01/27/0127statefarm.html

Of course, now the state, which is competing with them, is imposing conditions on their departure.

hawksruleva on July 16, 2009 at 4:20 PM

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