Bombshell: CBO chief tells Congress ObamaCare will “significantly expand” federal spending; Report: Bipartisan deal close?
posted at 2:20 pm on July 16, 2009 by Allahpundit
I’m using “bombshell” unironically. You and I know that it’ll explode spending but The One’s actually been pitching this boondoggle — insanely — as a cost-saving measure, even though it’s common knowledge that ObamaCare 1.0, a.k.a. Medicare, is well on its way to bankrupting America.
The cat’s all the way out of the bag now.
Conrad: Dr. Elmendorf, I am going to really put you on the spot because we are in the middle of this health care debate, but it is critically important that we get this right. Everyone has said, virtually everyone, that bending the cost curve over time is critically important and one of the key goals of this entire effort. From what you have seen from the products of the committees that have reported, do you see a successful effort being mounted to bend the long-term cost curve?
Elmendorf: No, Mr. Chairman. In the legislation that has been reported we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount. And on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs…
As we wrote in our letter to you and Senator Gregg, the creation of a new subsidy for health insurance, which is a critical part of expanding health insurance coverage in our judgement, would by itself increase the federal responsibility for health care that raises federal spending on health care. It raises the amount of activity that is growing at this unsustainable rate and to offset that there has to be very substantial reductions in other parts of the federal commitment to health care, either on the tax revenue side through changes in the tax exclusion or on the spending side through reforms in Medicare and Medicaid. Certainly reforms of that sort are included in some of the packages, and we are still analyzing the reforms in the House package. Legislation was only released as you know two days ago. But changes we have looked at so far do not represent the fundamental change on the order of magnitude that would be necessary to offset the direct increase in federal health costs from the insurance coverage proposals.
It’s a month to the day since the first time Elmendorf kneecapped Hopenchange by announcing that not only would an early iteration of ObamaCare cost a trillion dollars over the next decade, it would still leave millions uninsured. The money question now: Will this further embolden the Blue Dogs to torpedo the House bill? They’ve got tons of media momentum behind them, believe it or not. Drudge is leading with the New York Post’s story about a 57% combined income tax rate in New York City on top earners once the ObamaCare surtax passes while ABC flags a study showing that combined top tax rates in fully 39 states will soar to over 50% as well. The public’s not buying The One’s crap about how the rich are going to pay for this either: According to Rasmussen, 78% expect the tax burden for ObamaCare to trickle down to the middle class. And in McClatchy’s new poll, the split between those who think expanding coverage is top priority and those who think top priority is controlling costs is now just two points, within the margin of error — even as the number who say the country’s on the right track has dropped 12 points since June, confirming the Hotline poll from yesterday. Like Karl says, the mask is off and The One’s political capital is at ebb tide. If fiscal conservatives can’t stop ObamaCare now — or at least vastly improve it — then we never will.
Update: Even supersquishy Olympia Snowe’s getting cold feet:
But beyond policy, Snowe and other moderates are bristling at the time table set by President Obama – he wants bills passed through the House and Senate before the bodies leave for their August recess on August 7.
She told reporters last night that’s probably not enough time. And she pointed to the creation of Medicare in the 1960s, which she said took a lot longer than the time table set out by Democrats this year.
Update: A must-read post from Kaus. If you’d told me in advance that ObamaCare would run into problems, the very last reason I’d anticipate would be poor salesmanship by Obama. And yet:
He lectures: It’s also time, Obama tells his viewers, to lose weight, and stop smoking, and pull up your socks. Later on he tells people that they are foolish to prefer brand name drugs to generic drugs, and to want multiple medical tests. “If you only need one test, why do you want five tests?” Stop clinging to your tests! You’re worse than those people in Pennsylvania.
Who knew we were electing a national mother-in-law? And get a chance to endure increased taxes for the privilege. Obama’s supposed to be rallying support from voters, not castigating them. Outside the S& M parlor, most people do not enjoy paying to be disciplined.
Update: Uh oh.
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus(D-Mont.) said Thursday that he hopes to have a bipartisan deal on a health care reform bill by the end of the day.
He made the remarks after huddling for about two hours with five Finance Committee members most closely involved in the negotiations. It was the first time Baucus acknowledged a time frame for reaching an agreement.
“We are meeting very aggressively today,” Baucus said of the bipartisan group, which plans to meet again at 1:30 p.m. “We will keep meeting all day long. I hope we can reach some kind of agreement by the end of the day, but having said that, it depends on what kind it is.”
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American Power tracked-back with, “Obama Health Reform May Threaten Economy”:
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/obama-health-reform-may-threaten.html
Donald Douglas on July 16, 2009 at 2:54 PM
I don’t know whether to believe Baucus has some deal close to being done. This thing is hemorrhaging support. Didn’t the Blue dogs say they had 10 Dem votes against it?
Thunderstorm129 on July 16, 2009 at 2:55 PM
it’s a bluff… plain and simple.
ted c on July 16, 2009 at 2:56 PM
just to make sure your post is seen.
elduende on July 16, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Bipartisan deal? Why the *&@#&^%$#*!@#%$@#!!! are Republicans helping Democrats & Dear Leader in any way on this government takeover of our health?
Need to steal the line from the pro-abortion crowd:
Keep your laws off my body.
Just say no to government run health care.
rbj on July 16, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Anybody over 60 and that voted for Obumbler have signed on to a suicide pact.
jukin on July 16, 2009 at 2:57 PM
good one
ted c on July 16, 2009 at 2:57 PM
I’m completely disillusioned with the GOP. If I wanted corrupt, big gov’t, pro-abortion, global warming alarmists in office, I could just vote Democrat.
jazz_piano on July 16, 2009 at 2:59 PM
When did Snowe make the defection formal?
bloghooligan on July 16, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Figures the Senate “Republicans” who backed Flip-Flip Specter until he finally flopped and are, at last check, still backing Crist, would sell us out.
steveegg on July 16, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Democrats have redefined “bipartisan”. It’s likely to be a bipartisan bill that only Democrats vote for.
DamnCat on July 16, 2009 at 3:01 PM
“Bipartisan”…that means when the whole thing goes to $hit they’ll have Republicans to blame or at the very least say, “Well, lots of Republicans were for it, too!”
Dr. ZhivBlago on July 16, 2009 at 3:01 PM
How do you get a report from the CBO telling you that we can’t afford this health care then get a compromise? I despise Washington, D.C.
Cindy Munford on July 16, 2009 at 3:02 PM
Stop it, you idiots!!! Even if the government controlled health care is revised to make it more attractively improved, the government will screw all of us when they get their foot in the door. We must fight to keep the government control out of everything. There is NO room for compromise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
mobydutch on July 16, 2009 at 3:04 PM
Cindy Munford on July 16, 2009 at 3:02 PM
+1
dont taze me bro on July 16, 2009 at 3:04 PM
+10
ReagansRight on July 16, 2009 at 3:05 PM
I’d be happy with “None of the above” as a permanent option on every ballot.
BobMbx on July 16, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Bipartisan means Democrats and Republicans working together to pass the Democrats agenda.
MarkTheGreat on July 16, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Liar. Why in the world would Republicans want a bipartisan healthcare bill when finally they are getting traction on what a colossal mistake this will/would be?
moonsbreath on July 16, 2009 at 3:06 PM
The numbers are not yet adding up. But neither does the GOP message make sense. It sounds like: We have to pay more for insurance to protect insurance company profits.
That certainly makes no sense, given their excessive profits. And it sure doesn’t make sense if you’re a middle-class person struggling to maintain a policy in this day and age.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Seniors will have fewer Medicare options, the rich will see their taxes rise to pay for some of it, and kids and grandkids will be paying for the rest for generations. See? A compromise.
ChrisB on July 16, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Sounds like the tactic where you announce success to force the other side to actually do it. That being said with a rat bastard traitor like Snowe in the mix, it could well be that the whore is betraying America (yet again).
highhopes on July 16, 2009 at 3:11 PM
I’ve never understood the highlighted phrase. That line of thinking is dangerous and in fact, downright evil.
anuts on July 16, 2009 at 3:12 PM
Working on it. Four down, five to go.
They have to fight this thing. They have to slow it down.
spmat on July 16, 2009 at 3:13 PM
As an investor, I like it. But it’s been quite out of line for years.
As for evil, you’re entitled to your opinion.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:14 PM
No.
Here’re my talking points: Obama is about to force me into his crappy medical plan. I don’t want that.
spmat on July 16, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Worse than that they also destroyed any optimism their children could have had.
highhopes on July 16, 2009 at 3:15 PM
define excessive.
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Uh … the gubmint’s track record says otherwise.
How about I pick my medicine, my doctor and decide how many tests I want? I worked hard all of my life so I could afford good health care.
Get out of my life Uncle Scam!
fogw on July 16, 2009 at 3:17 PM
returns well above other industry averages
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:18 PM
I can’t call from work but I emailed all of them.
Cindy Munford on July 16, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Look. More government policy pushes a hospital into the red.
AnninCA blames lack of government, of course.
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:19 PM
My mother is 74, my inlaws are 77, and 81. My grandmother is 94. This worries me very much, for them, and for us, as we’re all getting older. My brothers, who ignorantly voted for Obama, assured my mother, he (Obama) was ok, and it would be ok. Now, I often wonder. Do they still look at her in the eye, and say that to her? This angers me so much, and I will be burning the lines, as much as I can.
capejasmine on July 16, 2009 at 3:19 PM
So says the lowest quality person to ever occupy the White House. Death by affirmative action is really the ugliest sort of death. What a shame.
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:19 PM
What is the insurance company average profit margin? And what are other industries’ average margins?
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM
The bill that emerged from the House really had that clause in it, which is the real talk of the town today.
I’d say you have a right to your opinion, given the actual bill. I have NO clue as to the rationale for including that in the House bill.
I am certain it won’t stay.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM
You know what else doesn’t make sense? If this healthcare plan is so great why aren’t members of Congress (Democrats) rushing to sign-up for it first?
Now that’s a head scratcher.
moonsbreath on July 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM
That certainly makes no sense, given their excessive profits. And it sure doesn’t make sense if you’re a middle-class person struggling to maintain a policy in this day and age.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:07 PM
By any stretch of the imagination do you have any idea what exactly excessive profits means? Just because a number is big in the absolute doesn’t make it excessive. If you make $1M on a $100M investment you made 1% but if you made $100k on $100k you made 100%. Which is excessive?
Jed_Eckert on July 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I just bet he is. The more people know, the less they’ll like it, just like every other wrong-headed piece of legislation that have been shoved down out throats by these fascist clowns in the 111th CONgress.
Rae on July 16, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Don’t get me going, I am two seconds off of saying something that will insure a visit from Homeland Security.
Cindy Munford on July 16, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Fair question, but I better take time to look it up and quote accurately.
I don’t have the numbers on the tip of my fingertips.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:21 PM
This is kind of changing the subject, but was watching the Senate on CSPAN and De Mint was talking about a hate crime bill the Dems want to pass and have attached to the Military Spending bill, this is one scary bill they can prosecute you for WHAT YOU WERE THINKING when you did the crime. He also said they would be voting on it at 1:30 in the morning, how can you even know what it is being passed when they do it in the dead of night, I thought only cockroaches came out of the woodwork at night, guess I was wrong so do Democrats.
concernedsenior on July 16, 2009 at 3:22 PM
So you don’t know. And yet you think it’s excessive.
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:22 PM
We need to work with our dying breaths to make sure that no one who votes for this monstrosity or crap and trade ever get near an office again when it comes time for reelection. After that we can work on prosecuting these scumbags. Throw the whole lot of them in jail.
Tuari on July 16, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Seriously? Every president including Trumann found this issue to be a stumper.
I’m not surprised. However, I do think we MUST accomplish this.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:22 PM
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:23 PM
There you go thinking of it as your money or the company’s profits. That died when the filthy liar in the White House took over. He’s nationalized the auto industry and given it as a gift to the UAW, he’s taken over the banking industry and is setting it up so his biggest contributors get to amass huge fortunes based on government backing of “toxic assets” at invitation only sales events, he’s pushing through an environmental bill that is designed to further intrude into one’s private life may all sorts of mandates on what you can drive and even what kind of light bulb is allowable in your house. Now the rat bastard traitor is looking to hijack healthcare.
Through it all the filthy liar in the White House has literally squandered billions he can’t account for, raised taxes by covert means, and has not been held to account despite massive unemployment with no turnaround in the economy.
Simply put the filthy liar views America as his own to rule however he wants. He’s, IMO, illegally stealing whole industries as payoffs to his loyalists. GM, for example, was not even shopped around for the highest bidder but simply handed over to the UAW. It is disgusting and it is time for real change.
I suspect that I am not the only American very angry these days. That anger is going to vent soon.
highhopes on July 16, 2009 at 3:23 PM
She feels that it must be excessive. To a lefty, that’s good enough.
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM
It’s 3%. Is that excessive?
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Translation:
I don’t have a friggin clue about math, I just have FEELINGS because I saw a thing on Oprah about minority children that had to wait in a waiting froom for 25 minutes.
battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM
I agree about the privatization of car companies, highhopes.
Just not on this issue.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM
If they force this garbage down our throats they are in for a rude surprise.
What these thieving leftists fail to see is that they are pushing this country into insurrection. Then we’ll see what we’ll see. There won’t be enough healthcare to save them then.
elduende on July 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Phrases I never want to hear:
“excessive profits” (If you believe that an honest business can make too much, you fail economics. Go read the “money speech” in Atlas Shrugged.)
“working class” (What does this even mean? Everyone who earns an income, whether tiny or enormous, is working. I’m offended that if I ever pass a certain income level, I’ll no longer be considered a hard worker.)
Other recommendations, HA folks?
Animator Girl on July 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM
Blue dogs are a bunch of liars that ran as conservatives to fool the useful idiots into voting for them. Read the little prince my friends. It’s about time republicans realized that we need to pull out every weapon
to defeat these liberal marxists. We need to groom an army of freshman congressional conservatives who run as democrats. Say their prochoice, against gun rights and support gay marriage and then vote conservative. If your not at the table, your on the menu.
texaninfidel on July 16, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Ah, another liberal woman that found her new pet issue after seeing “SICKO”.
Questions for Ann —
1.How many hours have you volunteered at your local free clinic this:
year?
month?
week?
2.Have you given up the following luxuries and used that money for your local free clinic:
-cable tv
-cable internet
-car payment
3.If you aren’t willing to fund health care with your own time and money, why are you willing to make me give up mine????
4.Since you want government to take away the choice of your health, will it be ok in a few years when the pendulum swings back the other way and abortion (except for life threatening instances) is outlawed by “government health care”?
battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:27 PM
As I’m sure you were certain that it wouldn’t be there. Or that this bill will help the middle class. Or that it won’t bankrupt the country. Or…
In the end, you like the idea of bureaucrats running people’s lives. Doesn’t matter how or why; you just like the idea of living under a dictatorship of indifference.
spmat on July 16, 2009 at 3:27 PM
Dr. A.E. Wilder-smith in one of this books noted that “you can not talk about who won the race when all the runners are dead at the starting line.” This should be dead at the starting line. I don’t want improvements that will still ruin my options.
chemman on July 16, 2009 at 3:27 PM
But you support the public plan option and that is why the bill is written to make it the automatic default if somebody doesn’t use a private insurer. The whole thing is being underwritten by the government so that the public plan will have deep pockets to undercut the rates of the private insurers. In short Ann, this is all about forcing everybody onto the public plan.
In short the House is only doing what you demand. Both you and they are dead wrong on this issue and people will really die because of it (should the public be silly enough to let this stand).
highhopes on July 16, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Why don’t you answer this question leftist?
elduende on July 16, 2009 at 3:28 PM
That Politico piece listed Olympia Snowe as D-Maine…might as well be.
CP on July 16, 2009 at 3:29 PM
I can’t get my link to show up!
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:31 PM
What is the insurance company average profit margin? And what are other industries’ average margins?
Fair question, but I better take time to look it up and quote accurately.
I don’t have the numbers on the tip of my fingertips.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:21 PM
They make their cost of capital. If one comapny made more the market would adjust it down. If all HICs made the same and it was less than their COC this is stupid. If all HICs made the same and it was “excessive” this is price fixing. Further, given the state regulations and the rate approval process involved if profits were indeed excessive the people most responsible would be the state insurance commisioners amongst other entities that exist soley for the benefit of the public. So, in order for your statement to be correct there must be a cover-up that would so large that the alien’s at Area 51 would be able to go to Vegas for the weekend.
Jed_Eckert on July 16, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Is there a block on links with this site?
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:32 PM
common sense is having equal difficulties.
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Those both get to me too.
BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 3:32 PM
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10 Centene 792 2,279 51 -44 -178
11 Medical Mutual of Ohio 847 2,039 10 100 57
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AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:34 PM
We MUST pass this healthcare plan that even members of Congress won’t sign-up for? You’re funny and not too bright.
It’s really not a “head scratcher.” I was being facetious. Congress doesn’t want this plan for themselves because they know it stinks and will limit healthcare for themselves and their families.
This plan will do more harm than good and even a simpleton can figure that out.
moonsbreath on July 16, 2009 at 3:34 PM
A 3% profit margin? I couldn’t and wouldn’t live on that margin in my business, though I deal with far fewer zeros than big companies. Still, it hardly seems worthwhile when you compare it to the money going through their hands.
Monica on July 16, 2009 at 3:34 PM
That’s the best I can do.
Google heathcare industry profits.
go to Fortune magazine.
It’s listed.
Take a look. It’s been HUGE profits.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM
3% is a lot in the dollar amounts you are talking here. Which is probably what Ann is attempting to dig up right now. A number without any perspective.
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM
A bipartisan bill would have little in the way of meaningful legislation, nor would it have agreement in principle among those voting yes. It would merely be the response of congressmen to threats from the leadership.
Vashta.Nerada on July 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM
I grilled snowes office earlier saying I represented a labor group of 3000 bath iron works employees. Find a Maine area code. Pick a business in Maine and call her office and say you have a petition growing to remove her From office. Play hard ball people the libs are. Stand up and fight for your freedom !!!!!!
texaninfidel on July 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Apples verses Oranges.
Oil Company profit margins are around 9%
Fast Food profit margins are around 20%
Others fall in there someplace.
So is it okay for health insurance companies to make 20% since fast food companies make that much?
chemman on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM
A profit margin of 3-4% is good for a medical insurer/HMO. Meanwhile, Microsoft’s profit margin is about 35%, Walgreen’s is about 18% etc. That should put things in perspective. Medical insurance is a very low margin business. If you think insurers are gouging people you’re very much mistaken. You can dislike them for other reasons, but not that one.
eyedoc on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Was there something in that?
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Is 3% excessive?
If so, why are you the arbiter of excess?
lorien1973 on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Ann, I’d LOVE to hear your thoughts on these numbers:
this is a shortened version of directorblue’s post
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/07/state-run-health-care-by-the-numbers/
***WHY are lines so long with govt health care?
***WHY can’t you get care when you want under govt health care?
***WHY do higher % of people die of breast cancer, prostate cancer, ALL CANCER in “more developed countries” (according to the UN) like Britain or Canada?
Give me an answer to those three and I’ll leave you be!
battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM
You killed the blog with your cut and paste. That’s a lot lefty.
BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Yes, but of course, I have my own version of public option.
That’s probably what’s the biggest sticking point.
I don’t agree with the notion of eliminating private plans entirely, such as in the current House version. Frankly, I’m scratching my head as to why that’s in there.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Burn them at the stake!!! And get a public company oput to compete with them, too .. damn capitalist bastards.
/AnninCA
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 3:37 PM
Just talked to Grassley’s Office in Washington. They said that he isn’t even meeting with Baucus today and were wondering where this deal was coming from. I told them from Baucus, imagine that a democrat that isn’t telling the truth. They are swamped with angry callers. Dah….
Flood Washington with calls. We have to stop Obama.
These are the direct phone numbers for the Bluedogs in Congress that can stop the Bill in Committee: Call them:
All area code 202
Reps. John Barrow (D-Ga.)225-2823
Bart Gordon (D-Tenn.)225-4231
Baron Hill (D-Ind.) 225-5315
Jim Matheson (D-Utah)225-3011
Charlie Melancon (D-La.) 225-4031
Mike Ross (D-Ark.)800-223-2220
Zack Space (D-Ohio)225-6265
suzyk on July 16, 2009 at 3:37 PM
How foolish!
GOOGLE posted record profits in 2006, then again in 2007. Should we carpet bomb Mountain View, CA to pay for the sins of Google Earth??????
–Wait—wait—-unles—-”excess profits”—-is only a problem—–when it’s insurance, banks, or oil!
Could it be????? You’re a hyprocrite/???
battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Or ‘thanks’ a lot. Whatever.
BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html
This is interesting- profit margins for comparison.
Monica on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
There are some sites that won’t show up on links. Although, it has never happened to me, I have seen some complaints on here before.
Who knows why? Maybe someone deemed those sites’ hits too excessive…
anuts on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
You know, I really wish you would quit spouting mindless drivel. We don’t need any health care modification. Those people who can afford insurance should not be treated for free in emergency rooms. This can be verified by social security number. Illegal aliens should not be treated for free in emergency rooms. This can also be verified by social security number.
Health care crisis solved.
Vashta.Nerada on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
WE MUST BREAK UP BIG BURGERS!!!
thomasaur on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Epic failure alert!
scalleywag on July 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Have you really seen Sicko?
Cindy Munford on July 16, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Sorry about the cut and paste. I tried 3 times to link.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Let’s just go with ‘HUGE’….
That works for me.
BigWyo on July 16, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Why should you be allowed to make a profit on burgers at all? Food is more important than health care. Why doesn’t the government just take over all restaurants and supermarkets?
eyedoc on July 16, 2009 at 3:41 PM
This is Alinsky tactics pure and simple. These retards in Congress better realize that they risk all of their seats if they do this President’s bidding anymore.
JAM on July 16, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Yeah, but it’s a movie. I thought it was entertaining, but that’s about it.
He’s not a documentarian, and he has become increasingly nuts. But yes, I enjoyed it and laughed in parts.
Did you see it? It’s not really a good discussion piece on healthcare, but it’s OK for raising big issues, anyway, and giving people a way to start talking about it.
My own ideas are quite different, frankly.
AnninCA on July 16, 2009 at 3:42 PM
You’re destroying AnninCA’s entire argument. You really should be nicer.
BadgerHawk on July 16, 2009 at 3:42 PM
After they crash the economy completely that’s next.
thomasaur on July 16, 2009 at 3:42 PM
No shit.
moonsbreath on July 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM
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