Shouldn’t the “surtax” be called the Doctor Tax?
posted at 4:30 pm on July 15, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
The House version of ObamaCare plans to levy a surtax on individuals earning the highest incomes in America to defray the costs of “reform”. Who would those people be? The Bureau of Labor Statistics has data from May 2008 available on its site on mean incomes of all professions in the US, fortunately downloadable in spreadsheet form. After entertainers and athletes, which professions earn the highest mean annual salaries — and will likely have to contribute most to the surtax? Here are the top 15:
- Surgeons
- Anesthesiologists
- Orthodontists
- Obstetricians and gynecologists
- Oral and maxillofacial surgeons
- Internists, general
- Prosthodontists
- Physicians and surgeons, all other
- Family and general practitioners
- Chief executives
- Dentists, general
- Psychiatrists
- Pediatricians, general
- Dentists, all other specialists
- Podiatrists
Notice a pattern here? Fourteen of the top 15 positions (again, after entertainers and athletes, for which the BLS gives no mean annual income) come from the health-care field. Only CEOs break the pattern, coming in at #10, which might surprise some class-warriors. Lawyers come in at #16, by the way.
Now, this data may make some people say, “Well, great! Doctors make too much money anyway!” However, this also shows that we have a system that compensates the actual providers of health care at a rate which keeps supply at a point where we don’t have to worry about waiting a year for a surgery we need or whether a dentist even works anywhere near where we live. Penalizing the actual providers of medical care means less incentive for the straight-A students to enter the field, which will curtail supply at a point where demand will skyrocket, thanks to the suddenly cost-free basis for people to seek it. That’s exactly the trap into which other single-payer systems have fallen.
Besides, the argument for both health-care reform and the surtax is to supposedly break the bank of those eeeeeevil insurance companies that make all of that money, right? It looks like the entire premise is flawed — which the profit performance of health insurers as a group already attests. (Thanks to HA reader Michael Velez for pointing this out.)
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
Shoot you and make you pay for the bullet…
Caper29 on July 15, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Country club member retention staff weep across America.
Muletrain on July 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Good. If any in this profession were wobbly about this issue, this tax idea should push them to be against this “reform” idea.
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Country club workers gotta eat.
Rich on July 15, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Insanity I tell you…..insanity!!!
grapeknutz on July 15, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Let’s tax healthcare practitioners- to pay for healthcare.
What could go wrong?
cs89 on July 15, 2009 at 4:36 PM
I have a feeling the Dems will not be happy until all of us are living in a barter system and have replaced our cars with bicycles.
Rich on July 15, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Hey, make them work for free, that’ll attract more to the medical profession than ever before/sarc
Chainsaw56 on July 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM
TOTALLY off topic [and deleted for that reason -- Ed]
battleoflepanto1571 on July 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Doctors shouldn’t be practicing for money anyway. Our health-care system would be so much better off if doctors did what they did for altruistic reasons. It works so well in every other government endeavor, we should apply it to health-care as well. [/progressive]
spmat on July 15, 2009 at 4:38 PM
I would imagine The John Edwards Tort Club is pleased.
bloggless on July 15, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Your Chance To Vote On Obama’s Performance on Economy-AT&T/Yahoo Poll
BrianA on July 15, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Obama has invented the economic perpetual motion machine.
askheaves on July 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Maybe, like Justice Ginsburg’s Roe v Wade, health care reform is about killing people.
patrick neid on July 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Kenyan witch doctors are the next big thing in health care careers.
Fletch54 on July 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
I think every liberal should walk into their doctor’s office and tell him “I’m glad you are about to be taxed more so I can get free medical care” and see how well that trip turns out.
lorien1973 on July 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
AnnaCA made that exact point a couple weeks ago.
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
A GP with a private practice is going to get hammered from all directions. All the taxes designed to destroy small business will get them along with the taxes mentioned in this post.
Don’t liberals keep saying we need more doctors who fit that description.
forest on July 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
But … but … Obama cares about my health. He loves me. He’d never allow anything bad to happen to the people who heal my illnesses and injuries. I refuse to believe any inconvenient facts that suggest otherwise.
/sarc
OhioCoastie on July 15, 2009 at 4:40 PM
I have no sympathy. Those professions, as an aggregate, are highly liberal and voted for obama. Even better, I’d love to see obama pass an entertainer tax, where all people in the entertainment business, acting and music, pay 75% for the greater glory of the revolution. Tax those millionaire elites! Power to the people!
keep the change on July 15, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Oh, don’t worry: the US will do what other countries do and import doctors from Romania and Mexico.
Phoenician on July 15, 2009 at 4:40 PM
“Wow! Your blood vessels are hard to find. Let me try again. Can’t miss on the fifth time, right?”
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Let’s only tax registered Democrats to pay for health care.
jimmy2shoes on July 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Price controls == shortages.
It’s that simple, people.
spmat on July 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
you would be surprised to learn how many of my family members agree with this crazy statement!
battleoflepanto1571 on July 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
Who do you suppose they will pass on the cost of the increased tax to?
pedestrian on July 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM
My husband is an anesthesiologist but currently a teaching one. By the way, do NOT go into a teaching hospital ER or have surgery in July – that is when the new residents come on board :)
After hearing Obambi’s speech today, I have seriously recommended that we start our own surgery center/treatment facility – NOT IN THE US. We can put it in Mexico, or on one of the islands in the gulf, and provide safe affordable TIMELY diagnostic and treatment for a variety of illnesses. We would clean up, and since our business would be out of the US I bet we could find a way to get out of those nasty corporate income taxes too.
Sound silly? Guess what? He is actually going to investigate it. …..
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 4:42 PM
A good little progbot, I’m sure.
spmat on July 15, 2009 at 4:42 PM
Not everyone, Most assuredly the Statist elite will keep their mansions and limos.
Don’t forget that our “Rulers” deserve everything they get, being the Elite of society is hard work don’t ya know.
Chainsaw56 on July 15, 2009 at 4:43 PM
“I demand in the name of sheer decency you shoot me now!”
So, we work this so the people who we want to lower health care costs, and who are over worked, and who are actually in short supply; we work this pile of excrement to punish them? Sooooo, then they can go, and raise the costs of health care, not enter the medical profession, and be taxed to oblivion, and still fear the scum sucking lawyers!
If this is what an Ivy League education brings Americans, I demand all Ivy League schools to be shut down immediately, and investigated for fraudulent educational practices! Sheeeesh! What a bunch of maroons!
freeus on July 15, 2009 at 4:44 PM
My father was a doctor, and this is what I always tell people about doctors’ “high” salaries:
Name me another profession in which every decision you make is potentially a life or death decision; in which a simple accident or a single step missed in a series of steps can end up with someone dead or disabled; for which you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars per year in litigation insurance simply to be able to work – none of which is tax deductible; for which you have to have six years of education plus two years of residency and internship, during which you might work 72-hour shifts without a break; and which requires you to be “on call” most of the time, and to miss many holidays and other family occasions because you are responding to the emergency injury or illness of another or simply checking on your patients.
How much is someone worth who is willing to do a job under these circumstances? Certainly more than almost any lawyer in existence.
I saw very little of my father during my childhood and youth, but he was one of the most beloved members of our community because of the way he went the extra mile for his patients. They would have said he was worth whatever he wanted. A good doctor always is.
rockmom on July 15, 2009 at 4:44 PM
spmat on July 15, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Whew, for a minute there I thought you were serious, and I was going to have to come and administer some serious drugs…
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Tax medical lawsuit rewards at 90%
PrezHussein on July 15, 2009 at 4:45 PM
The carbon tax, the surtax, the alternative minimum tax, pretty soon they will be begging to give free health care just so they can stop filling out all the tax returns.
pedestrian on July 15, 2009 at 4:45 PM
I think every liberal should walk into their doctor’s office and tell him “I’m glad you are about to be taxed more so I can get free medical care” and see how well that trip turns out.
lorien1973 on July 15, 2009 at 4:39 PM
That’s such a great line that I think even a few of us conservatives should try it, too. :) I’ll bet the doc would be so impressed with our grasp of economics that he would treat us for free!
jwolf on July 15, 2009 at 4:46 PM
shhh. ixnay on the irthcertificatebay.
JiangxiDad on July 15, 2009 at 4:46 PM
It’s posts like this that make me wonder why you guys don’t have a tip jar. Do you? Because if you do, I’d give.
beatcanvas on July 15, 2009 at 4:46 PM
what about vacuous book authors? aren’t they up there or was Obama an anomaly? doh! nevermind
Real story from this summer. One of my sons friends, son of a doctor, just completed his residency at Baylor College of Medicine in Dallas as an oral surgeon specializing in pediatrics. He is as smart as whip and been in school non-stop forever it seems (he is 30 now). Came out $350,000 in debt and said that was fairly typical unless you could get your parents to sponser you (note, his dad is a doctor and could not). His new wife came out owing $150,000 for anesthiseology.
These kids are starting out in major debt with the expectation of paying it down during their careers. I can see many of our kids generation getting popped pretty hard.
DanMan on July 15, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Gee, how come they just voluntarily give up their earnings?
Chainsaw56 on July 15, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Ed, this is a very good post.
I just can’t fathom how the dems think by TAXING HEAVILY the practioners of medicine, that somehow said doctors will STAY HERE and provide GREAT SERVICE.
it’s insanity, it’s crazy — it’s marxism!!!
battleoflepanto1571 on July 15, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Gee, how come they just don’t voluntarily give up their earnings?
Arrgh, didn’t proof read well enough
Chainsaw56 on July 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
My dad’s a doctor. He said if Obamacare passes, he’ll retire immediately. He’s only 61(about to turn 62), so I think he was planning to work a few more years. That’s one less cardiologist around thanks to this Administration.
Doughboy on July 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
My family doctor is a lovely woman, and a good doctor, but was about to quit a few years ago, due to the fact she was a sole practitioner, and overwhelmed by the administrative matters she had to handle. She had a hard time finding an associate given the malpractice coverage costs. She finally got a nurse practitioner, and then an associate. She also quit taking HMO patients (too little reimbursement for too much work).
She is also a liberal, and in our few conversations was quite enthusiastic about universal health care. I wonder if she knows what she’d really be getting into.
Wethal on July 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that our progressive elite masters seem to think that they can suck the physical & intellectual capital out of our ecenomy and make it run better.
You can’t have capitalism without capital, yet they refuse to admit that they’re socialsts. Will voters wake up in time to stop the rot?
OhioCoastie on July 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Husband in pharmaceuticals said this is exactly what would happen. Docs will set up in either Mexico, or islands and Americans will have to find ways to get to these places in order to receive health care.
freeus on July 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
My spouse is cheif exec for a hospital and I provide med mal for 400 physicians.
I can tell you FOR A FACT, that if socialized medicine goes through under the nightmare scenario, about 70% of the docs we know will retire, quit or move to Panama.
Get used to healthcare being administered by RNs and PAs – if we’re lucky – and more than likely, by bean counters in various government agencies.
Dear God help us survive this man’s term as pres.
stenwin77 on July 15, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Countries with gov’t health care don’t provide their own doctors. They’re imported from places like PAHKEYSTAHN. Many Muslim doctors would kill to come to the US and practice as employees of the gov’t.–pun intended.
JiangxiDad on July 15, 2009 at 4:50 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/Sl4Y4sr5fGI/AAAAAAAAc04/GcLzEjOYTac/s1600-h/healthcare+map.JPG
elduende on July 15, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Just like the Iranian model. Imagine that!!
ICBM on July 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM
My wife is a doctor. She works incredibly hard. I’ve been urging her to cut back to from 5 days a week to 3 or 4.
Given where taxes are going, why kill herself for incremental income?
Of course, that means her patients will have a hard time finding timely care elsewhere. And she will have to lay off staff.
I own a small business. C Corp. I’ll slash my marketing budget, lay off some staff, take more leisure time.
And we’ll probably retire a few years earlier than planned, maybe to Italy or Costa Rica or Belize. We love America, but when America isn’t America anymore, why hang around?
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM
rockmom on July 15, 2009 at 4:44 PM
AMEN!!! My husband has had to clean patients left in the hallways by hourly workers who didn’t give a crap about the basic human dignity of the person on the gurney. He has worked incredible hours, tried to save people who abused their own bodies, and for what? I know that not all docs are saints, in fact a lot of them are a@@es, (personal observation) but when you have to have the courage on a daily basis to take on life and death, give them a break.
Sorry, will get off soapbox now.
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM
WSJ: The Dems won’t antagonize the personal injury lawyers in health care reform with tort reform
Wethal on July 15, 2009 at 4:52 PM
We have a little saying sales, “What gets paid, gets done.”
JAM on July 15, 2009 at 4:52 PM
BO, the disincentivizor!
forest on July 15, 2009 at 4:53 PM
The question answers itself.
Fletch54 on July 15, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Where liberty is,
there is my country.
– Benjamin Franklin
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Doctors are expensive because of government regulation of certification and practice.
PrezHussein on July 15, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Yeah, many of my wife’s physician colleagues are lefties, too.
But guess what? Most of them use the same accountant that she does and boy, does he know how to, um, preserve wealth.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Sadly true.
jimmy2shoes on July 15, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Another war on the successful.
Part of me thinks 80% of those groups vote donk and for Obumbler.
jukin on July 15, 2009 at 4:55 PM
AAAAAAAmen !
Given that I work in the med mal field, I can tell you that healthcare costs would go substantially lower (eventually) if there were caps and taxes on settlements. Also, people who bring frivolous suits shoud be penalized.
NO ONE ever says – MAKE THE ATTORNEYS SUFFER OR SACRIFICE.
Remember how Bush promised to do this – during the campaign. Never happened.
stenwin77 on July 15, 2009 at 4:56 PM
i must be in the only den of conservative doctors left down here in Texas. But that could be because Texas has TORT reform which limits malpractice lawsuits.
Good point earlier about the dems not taking on the lawyers in this industry. Why not? Cause Obambi like the lawyers, they tie everything up in knots.
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Too much 1984 and Dr. Zhivago going on. Paging John Galt…
redwhiteblue on July 15, 2009 at 4:58 PM
WSJ: The Dems won’t antagonize the personal injury lawyers in health care reform with tort reform
Wethal on July 15, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Of course. We wouldn’t dare do the one thing that might actually bring down costs, right?
Grrrrrr!@#^$**
jwolf on July 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM
I am researching countries tonight. Putting together a business plan for the next two years.
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Dentists…..let’s just tax dentists. Sick, sadists, they deserve it….
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM
My family already shuttered its business in FL, fired 21 employees and moved operations off shore. No need to support this socialist POS Obama.
elduende on July 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM
This would require Congress to pass a surtax on its members.
BobMbx on July 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Stay on the soapbox. People don’t realize the amount of non-money making time good doctors must devote to keeping current on medical developments. I say crucify (physically) a doctor for malpractice when it’s the result of greed, laziness, or stupidity. But in the case of conscientious docs, let’s have medical malpractice courts to arrive at a reasonable settlement and move on.
BuckeyeSam on July 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Hey! Let’s stay and fight! Does this country mean nothing to you????? We need like minded people, with GUNS!
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Dentists…..let’s just tax dentists. Sick, sadists, they deserve it….
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM
What was that movie? Marathon Man???
Let’s make every member of Congress visit a dentist on the new Obambi plan…
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 5:04 PM
This is all a distraction. Our Fuhrer knows the “facts”. The “facts” are when He says they are. The insurance companies bleed the people and live high on the profits of the misery of others. The One has said so. Only with His Perfect Knowledge may we once again walk in the sunlight (while generating carbon-free and cost-free electricity) across vast oceans of green grass upon which the noble unicorn can once more nibble, having avoiding drowning by the oceans.
GarandFan on July 15, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Nah. They should just call the “surtax” a tax-cut. Worked in the Porkulus.
progressoverpeace on July 15, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Supported, no doubt, by ACORN-trained census, voter-registration workers, and GOTV workers.
BuckeyeSam on July 15, 2009 at 5:05 PM
How about the people who live off of the tax-free muni interest in their trust funds? It doesn’t look like they’ll be paying anything.
jaime on July 15, 2009 at 5:06 PM
My wife is a doctor and her income would qualify her for the Obama sur-tax plan. However, what people seem to forget is the student loan that people like her has to repay, not to mention the huge malpractice insurance, etc. There is definitely another side to the coin.
And by the way, not all doctors are lefties. My wife has a “Palin 2012″ sticker on her SUV…
Norwegian on July 15, 2009 at 5:06 PM
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 5:04 PM
You know, I got my first gun this winter, after Obambi got sworn in…. getting my second and third in another month, will also get my concealed carry permit.
Yeah, we will stay and fight, hornetsting, but damn, it gets to you after awhile, you know?
I want every member of Congress who votes for this crap to have a proctologist’s visit…
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 5:07 PM
We’re not bailing just yet. But if the GOP doesn’t re-take the House in 2010, the writing’s on the wall.
If a lot of high-earners and professionals do start to exit, look for outright asset seizures. Best to be at the cutting edge of any exodus.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Let me see, the Bush tax cut ends next year. The top rate will jump from 35% to 45% if I recall correctly. If obama care follows medicare, it will cut payments 20% (which could also be called doctors salaries) and they want to add an additional 6% surtax on the rich.
So Doctors will take a 20% pay cut and see their taxes go up to around 50%.
Sounds like a winner.
/S
redshirt on July 15, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Holy crap…how many times has it been keyed?
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:09 PM
Norwegian on July 15, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Yeah we busted our buts to pay off our med school debt in five years. My spouse was a late in life med student too so we lost ALL our retirement savings for this career change.
I know doc who are in it for the money, but mine is not. And slowly but surely he is waking up to the political climate around him…..
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 5:10 PM
My wife’s Lefty doctor friends are probably a skewed sample…most of them came out of the Ivy League.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:11 PM
They didn’t name obama the gun salesman of the year for nothin’!
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 5:11 PM
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:11 PM
Yep, definitely skewed, there.
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 5:12 PM
He’s the best stimulus package the ammunition industry could ever hope for. I haven’t been able to find .380 target rounds for nearly a year.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:13 PM
Zero, although some loser tried to pry it off my car once. (I have one on mine too) We live in a county where McCain/Palin got 65% of the vote though, so it might not be representative of the country as a whole.. :)
Norwegian on July 15, 2009 at 5:13 PM
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Very logical.
catlady on July 15, 2009 at 5:13 PM
My wife grew up in the Soviet Union, so she knows all about Socialism. When time came for her to apply at Harvard, Columbia and Penn, I had to sit her down and coach her on how to sound like a mindless liberal.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:16 PM
From an article at National Review online:
“No health legislation on the table requires federal, state, or local agencies — or private institutions receiving federal funds — to check the immigration status of health-program applicants, so some of the money distributed via Medicaid and tax credits inevitably would go to illegal aliens.
. . .
And another part of the Finance Committee plan would exempt illegal immigrants from a mandate to buy insurance. Uninsured Americans would have to pay a fine, but uninsured illegal aliens would be off the hook — thus, they would have no reason to buy their own coverage or to stop receiving taxpayer-funded health services at clinics, emergency rooms, etc.”
Sounds like a great plan, doesn’t it? More freebies for illegal aliens, while U.S. taxpayers continue to get the shaft.
AZCoyote on July 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Undocumented workers, pleeeeze.
Besides, as an Arizonan, you know full well that they didn’t cross the border, the border crossed them.
And thus, they are perpetually entitled.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:19 PM
My guess is, if this were implemented, there would be salary caps on the medical field anyway and the high paying jobs listed above would no longer be in existence. As a doctor, it will eventually be illegal (as it is in Canada) to accept money for practice outside of compensation from the government. So they will have to get their money from others down the chain.
jeridhill on July 15, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Lets see… who will this tax KILL?
Doctors.
Farmers.
Small Business.
Only way out will be to convert from LLC’s to C-Corps, who then have to pay Business taxes…
Hmmm… intresting though… this move (LLC to C) will take wealth out of the hands of Individuals, and transfer it to Companies…
Companies, which have no Rights as the people do.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2009 at 5:20 PM
He was also a doctor. Eastern Lunatic asylum superintendent.
That John Galt?
Chainsaw56 on July 15, 2009 at 5:22 PM
My husband would probably sell me for a box of .45 ball ammo.
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 5:26 PM
Actually, Corporations are “people” under the law.
LLC’s and S-Corps are very similar, just a little less red tape to an LLC. In both cases, net income flows through to the shareholders’ 1040.
The only reason to form a C Corp is if you plan on having a substantial number of shareholders or on eventually going public. Otherwise, the double taxation is ruinous.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:26 PM
And how many of those CEOs are in charge of health care companies and hospitals?
rockmycar on July 15, 2009 at 5:27 PM
She is also a liberal, and in our few conversations was quite enthusiastic about universal health care. I wonder if she knows what she’d really be getting into.
Yeah, those salaried doctors at Harvard in their Ivory Towers have always wanted single payer gov’t insurance.
Here in Texas, we’re individualists. Screw single payer. I moved here from Canada because of it.
txdoc on July 15, 2009 at 5:29 PM
Looking like Obammycare will give a whole new meaning to “Doctors without Borders”.
guntotinglibertarian on July 15, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Bush also did a lot of things that never should have happened. Like signing the bailout.
Fletch54 on July 15, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »