Quote of the day
posted at 10:30 pm on July 15, 2009 by Allahpundit
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“You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?…
Rationing health care means getting value for the billions we are spending by setting limits on which treatments should be paid for from the public purse. If we ration we won’t be writing blank checks to pharmaceutical companies for their patented drugs, nor paying for whatever procedures doctors choose to recommend. When public funds subsidize health care or provide it directly, it is crazy not to try to get value for money. The debate over health care reform in the United States should start from the premise that some form of health care rationing is both inescapable and desirable. Then we can ask, What is the best way to do it?”
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Agreed. Fascists like Singer have two sets of rules – the elite get all the goodies and we peasants get the boot.
pearson on July 15, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Trauma centers in crime ridden areas are costly. Should we lose them? Treating individuals that require care as a result of criminal activity is usually intensive, immediate, and, of course, costly. But they are mostly minorities. If we ration that care? Racism?
Let’s call this what it is: An attempt to get the doctors and pharmaceutical companies under government control, along with the necessarily skyrocketing costs they require.
TinMan13 on July 15, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Margaret Sanger is cheering in her grave. Eugenics here we come! Woowoooo!
OneGyT on July 15, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Their support for universal health care is one of the reasons I will not join AARP
AZfederalist on July 15, 2009 at 11:26 PM
Don’t forget to call the congress critters:
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
pearson on July 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM
I would say “yes, if you’re the one who’s paying for it”. In other words that’s decision that is best handled by a free market. The problem with government care is the answer will either be “yes” or “no” depending on the political connections of the person. Ted Kennedy gets that drug with no questions asked. You and me? Not so much.
PackerBronco on July 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM
The cool part about that is, right now, it’s YOUR choice. After Obamanation and Singer have their way, it won’t be your choice.
john1schn on July 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM
Oh, Oh! Pick me! I know the answer to question in the quote! We could use a modified form of barter whereby the person(s) with the most goods to offer in exchange for rare commodities gets to trade for the rarest items. Thereby giving both parties to the trade what they really want. We could even set up a symbolic method of tracking these trades. How about we call it “money”? Pretty much the same way we have been rationing everything since before civilation. “Economics” E C O N O M I C S. The study of the rationing of limited goods.
TubbyHubby on July 15, 2009 at 11:28 PM
Someone should have rationed TK’s health care on 18 July 1969. At a minimum, TK should have been convicted of rationing the health care of Mary Jo Kopechne that night. Good thing he called it in the next morning.
Seriously, if conservatives want to go for the jugular, run an ad reminding voters about how responsible Teddy was in dealing with the well being of Mary Jo Kopechne: “The same guy now wants to lead the charge to arrange to have the government control your health care?”
BuckeyeSam on July 15, 2009 at 11:29 PM
Word. I’m going to listen to Peter F****** “infant pigs are more worthy of life than infant humans” Singer talk about health care?
inviolet on July 15, 2009 at 11:29 PM
This story bothers me in so many ways. I just can’t see how someone can put a price tag on a human life. I know it happens but it’s sicking
Brat4life on July 15, 2009 at 11:29 PM
Try this…
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 11:05 PM
I’m not talking about “herbal” medicine.
txag92 on July 15, 2009 at 11:29 PM
I have a living will…a standing do not resuscitate order and no heroic efforts clause. It is my choice. All of my kids have a certified copy of it.
But it is my choice…not a government dictat.
The very idea that government would endeavor to choose who will live and who will die based on some sort of mathematical model is abhorrent.
This travesty directed toward individual freedoms of the citizens is nothing less than genocide in slow motion. And a government takeover of the national health care system (given their track record with Indian/Native American Health Care, as one small example) will mean not only rationing of care but a loss of qualified medical professionals, an end to private development of new procedures and drug therapies, and a growth in deadly diseases not an end to the same.
The mere fact that none in Congress have read this thing, and certainly no citizen has read it, and the demand from the White House that it be passed in its entirety prior to the August recess, indicates that this Administration and this Dem-controlled Congress has a lot more planned than merely “making health care more affordable.”
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 11:29 PM
On June 22, the Arizona legislature voted to place the Health Care Freedom Act on the 2010 ballot.
Could be a model for 10th Amendment push back.
DerKrieger on July 15, 2009 at 11:29 PM
Is a few months worth that much?
Progressive’s answer: No.
Conservative’s answer: It depends.
So much for the manecheanism of the right.
spmat on July 15, 2009 at 11:30 PM
When you are rationed out of the system…based on any number of factors…your last best hope may just be a witch doctor.
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Everything tangible has a price tag whether you want to admit it or not. We get into trouble when we try to deny that reality and pretend that there are some things beyond price. The only things I omit from that list are the intangible things like freedom, honor, and faith.
PackerBronco on July 15, 2009 at 11:32 PM
I’m not sure it’s going to be doable. This health care insanity can be countered if they can force the government health insurance company to never run a deficit and be capped at some very small level of funding (which will be very tough, frankly) and then open up low-tax zones to stimulate the return of private insurance, but the government program will still probably live and forever pose a threat to being re-empowered. I don’t know if they can actually kill it once it’s created, except to set some 5 or 10 year countdown, over which it can be saved at any moment.
No … I am very pessimistic about how this is going to turn out if the Washington junta creates a government health insurance company.
progressoverpeace on July 15, 2009 at 11:32 PM
New ad: “The politicians who support imposing the ultimate in health care rationing upon unborn children now want to impose health care rationing upon you. What could go wrong?”
BuckeyeSam on July 15, 2009 at 11:32 PM
Because going bankrupt over cancer sucks.
ernesto on July 15, 2009 at 11:14 PM
Which would you rather… file for bankruptcy or have your family file your death certificate?
txag92 on July 15, 2009 at 11:33 PM
Sorry, Manichaeism.
spmat on July 15, 2009 at 11:33 PM
Hell no, hell no, hell nooooooo.
Vote for freedom, yo.
Abby Adams on July 15, 2009 at 11:33 PM
I still remember a Democrat Senate candidate from Montana, I believe, named Tester who was interviewed on healthcare prior to his election and when these exact details that we are reading today with ObamaCare was discussed he was “Oh, no! No no no! Never!”. He got elected. Oh, well, his “no” vote will be offset by the two “yea” of Collins and Snowe.
Marcus on July 15, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Someone called a witch doctor?
john1schn on July 15, 2009 at 11:35 PM
The federal government has no Constitutional authority to create a health care plan. Where is the SCOTUS? Is there nothing coming out of Congress that they will challenge on Constitutional grounds? If not, what purpose do they serve?
DerKrieger on July 15, 2009 at 11:35 PM
glad my dad decided to develop cancer as soon as Obarfio starts ramping up his stupid f*cking hell-care plans
whatever
im going to bed
love y’all at HA
night
blatantblue on July 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Rationing by party membership, of course – US Socialist party members – get any hospital and treatment they want anywhere in the world, all expenses paid (need that face lift, Switzerland, no problem); the rest …it depends; those over 55 and not US socialist party members – no chance for treatment , grow your own medicinal herbs, OK ?
runner on July 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM
f*ck this hellcare sh*t
f*ck it!
blatantblue on July 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM
The question Mr Singer avoids asking is: “YOU, Mr Singer, have terminal cancer. This drug will let you live longer, IS IT WORTH IT TO YOU?”
Don’t ask me the question. I’m not the one dying.
Better yet Mr Singer. Why not just issue every 65 years old a gun and one bullet. Think of the Social Security and Medicare savings. After all, the gun can be recycled.
GarandFan on July 15, 2009 at 11:38 PM
So can the cadaver.
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 11:39 PM
It didn’t take long to run into an “uh-oh” moment when reading the House’s “health care for all Americans” bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.
When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.
It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of “Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,” the “Limitation On New Enrollment” section of the bill clearly states:
“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.
Joe Bloggs on July 15, 2009 at 11:39 PM
If I am paying for it, no.
If someone else is, of course.
This demonstrates the folly of a 3rd party payer.
TheSitRep on July 15, 2009 at 11:39 PM
That was my first thought, if every thing is to be rationed, and human life has a lessened value, what’s the point of developing breakthrough wonder drugs? For the government only?
4shoes on July 15, 2009 at 11:40 PM
Vote for freedom, yo.
Abby Adams on July 15, 2009 at 11:33 PM
LOL!
txag92 on July 15, 2009 at 11:42 PM
f*ck this hellcare sh*t
f*ck it!
blatantblue on July 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Everything will be ok BB. :
txag92 on July 15, 2009 at 11:43 PM
Is anyone ready to start considering secession? I’m serious about this. It’s clear that the rift between Left and Right is a chasm that can never be closed. I won’t live in a socialist country or see the US become one. I won’t become a slave or indentured servant of our government.
I would love to see the Libs get everything they want…in a country of their own. They would collapse and descend rapidly into USSR style totalitarianism. They can abort, tax, regulate, and euthanize themselves out of existence. They must be a way to make these people suffer the full measure of their insane ideology.
If not secession, then a really strong states rights/10th Amendment movement needs to grow. Quickly.
DerKrieger on July 15, 2009 at 11:43 PM
Let’s not forget that once Obama controls our health care, many doctors, nurses, therapists, and research scientists will be joining the unemployment lines.
pearson on July 15, 2009 at 11:44 PM
True, so true.
While I believe there is nothing I wouldn’t do for my family, if it is my choice (which it should be) I would end it early on rather than bankrupt them before I die.
On the other side of the coin, I do think that there should be limitations for lawsuits over death or malpractice.
This is where a price can be put on a life.
Because someone dies at the fault of a millionaire versus a trailer park cowboy, does that make their life worth more or less?
‘
cntrlfrk on July 15, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Rise and fly, Sparrow. You are right on the money on this one.
The same Peter Singer who advocates having sex with animals is writing Op/Eds in the Times and serving as a distinguished professor of “bioethics” at Princeton.
Down in Kentucky, they just call people like Singer “chicken-*uckers”, and they don’t give them 10,000 words on the website.
Jaibones on July 15, 2009 at 11:45 PM
You miss the point.
A Liberal would make that choice for you.
A True Conservative would leave that decision up to you.
Chaz706 on July 15, 2009 at 11:45 PM
You’d think a guy with this sort of background would find it disgusting to even contemplate these things as acceptable ways to provide health care. It’s absolutely amazing and disturbing.
mizflame98 on July 15, 2009 at 11:46 PM
Fo’ sho’, shawtayee!
Abby Adams on July 15, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Don’t allow fat old alcoholic Kennedy’s with cancer to get tumor downsizing using any surgeons, let alone one of the best in the world. Just give someone like that another case of Gin and say go home, fat old alcoholic man.
Joe Bloggs on July 15, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Wow I bet if it was his six months he would expect it to be covered even if it cost a billion.
ronsfi on July 15, 2009 at 11:47 PM
I buried another dear friend last year; he died of colon cancer. His political philosophy was very liberal, but he did everything that the best oncologists recommended that he do to fight for his life.
If you seriously think that a man with stage four colon cancer is worried about “going bankrupt over cancer”, you live a strange life, indeed. My life and my wife’s life are obviously worth more than yours.
Jaibones on July 15, 2009 at 11:51 PM
Looks like someone wants to start a civil war………….
……… the first person who dies because of this, game on, then Obama can suspend all of our rights, and start work on his statue.
Seven Percent Solution on July 15, 2009 at 11:52 PM
blatantblue on July 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM
BB – I’m very sorry to hear about your dad.
ladyingray on July 15, 2009 at 11:52 PM
Chaz, I’m making a different point. The caricature of the right is that they live in a hopelessly simple world of black and white. This issue puts the lie to that.
spmat on July 15, 2009 at 11:52 PM
9th amendment = The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
10th amendment = The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
I’m telling you, health care by the govt, particularly by the FEDERAL govt, which says that private plans are illegal, is coercion…. unless I’m missing some sort of “enumberated federal power” that is written in the first part of the constitution that says health care = feds (and face it, there’s not THAT much that the feds get to do…
Anyone see anything REMOTELY close to health insurance?!?!?!?!?!?
battleoflepanto1571 on July 15, 2009 at 11:53 PM
You make a valid point PackerBronco.
I would rather let the market decide than some government diktat.
That, and every system has a level of overhead.
It’s just that some systems have less overhead than others.
And I can guarantee there’s going to be far more overhead than necessary in a government run system.
Chaz706 on July 15, 2009 at 11:54 PM
Oh, I’m sure it is covered by one of those penumbras or emanations or something. /s
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 11:54 PM
Going bankrput PERIOD sucks.
And yet… no checks come in the mail if I open a restaraunt and go out of business.
No checks come in the mail if I buy too many electronics and my credit card maxes out.
But sure… let’s fix 1/4? 1/5? of the bankruptcy cases in America by destroying health care for 300 million people
Are you an idiot>??????
battleoflepanto1571 on July 15, 2009 at 11:55 PM
its okay
he probably deserved the news today.
you know, being white, male, and ex-USAF. his experiences were obviously not up to par with the new gold standard of being poly gendered and purple colored.
so, you know, since he didn’t have the same experiences as, say, sotomayor, his diagnosis was deserved.
oh, and by the way, as punishment for being who he is, I’m sure some lefty bureaucrat is going to make him pay for someone else’s cancer treatments.
blatantblue on July 15, 2009 at 11:56 PM
Certainly puts the lie to Obama’s assurances, doesn’t it? I’m surprised he would lie over something so easily checked.
a capella on July 15, 2009 at 11:56 PM
Perhaps it is imminent, or eminent domain?
ICBM on July 15, 2009 at 11:56 PM
as in “we’re going to build a new highway through your kidneys. we’ll take 1 for ’safe keeping’ “
battleoflepanto1571 on July 15, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Don’t you recognize me, Teddy? It’s me! Your very best amigo, Tuco! Don’t die, I’ll get you some more gin. Stay there. Try to be comfortable. I will get you a nice pillow. Don’t move, I’ll get you a lot more gin. Don’t die until later after you have told me the numbers to all your Swiss bank accounts. And the ones in the Cayman Islands too! If I get my hands on those numbers, I’ll always honor your memory, I swear!
Tuco on July 15, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Now you know what happened to the Hummer brand that GM was forced to sell to the Chinese.
mizflame98 on July 15, 2009 at 11:59 PM
Ernesto says that the right is evil because they would allow a person to go bankrupt fighting cancer. His solution: let them die to save money.
Who needs war to drum up patriotism when you could just use the doctor to exact the same sense of consequence?
spmat on July 16, 2009 at 12:00 AM
Does anyone else get incredibly ANGRY when they think about ObamaCare? I get ‘annoyed’ at the normal liberal tactics, but i say “eh, the pendulum will swing back soon”
But not this… this WILL lead to more people dead in hospitals that don’t have to be. Every country with socialized medicine has higher death rates from every disease, longer waiting times, rationing, refusing of care…. and yet the dems clap in glee when govt health care is mentioned. It’ll be a slow holocaust….
…and it ticks me off every day that it gets closer.
Anyone else like that??
battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 12:00 AM
Yeah…
ladyingray on July 16, 2009 at 12:01 AM
I’m about to go out-of-character and use vulgar language, so if it offends you, please skip my post….
WHAT THE F*CK???
Animator Girl on July 16, 2009 at 12:02 AM
Here we go…we should want our healtcare to be rationed just like we should want to be socialist! C’mon people, buck up!
Christian Conservative on July 16, 2009 at 12:03 AM
Senator Mikulski slips abortion funding into health care bill.
DerKrieger on July 16, 2009 at 12:03 AM
…
Personally, I am about to go nuclear.
ICBM on July 16, 2009 at 12:03 AM
It’s not to save money. Ernesto thinks that everyone should die because someone can’t afford the most expensive treatment. Unless everyone gets ice cream, no one gets ice cream. Unless you know a politician of the right sort …
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 12:04 AM
I am.
ladyingray on July 16, 2009 at 12:05 AM
The Obama Health Care Plan in a Nutshell
Joe Bloggs on July 16, 2009 at 12:05 AM
The government will rent you a gun but you have to pay for the bullet.
Americannodash on July 16, 2009 at 12:05 AM
This and C&T make me very angry. I call my senators (Lincoln and Pryor) every day about both issues and have gotten into some heated exchanges with the aides answering the phones. Sometimes ask just how much of my salary they have to confiscate before I’m considered a slave or an indentured servant. Sometimes tell them that if given the choice I’d opt out of Social Security so I darn sure don’t want to be forced into a government health care system. I use the word forced a lot. Especially in discussing SSI and Medicare.
DerKrieger on July 16, 2009 at 12:07 AM
Are you MIRV?
Joe Bloggs on July 16, 2009 at 12:07 AM
I was a bit ticked off this morning. I call my dad to find out whether he has the big Cancer
I hear a “yes”
and I look at the TV and see how the Senate Healthcare CMTE passed that bill or whatever
I went from shell shocked to “THOSE FILTHY MOTHERF*CKERS” in about two seconds.
Okay NOW I’m going to bed
blatantblue on July 16, 2009 at 12:08 AM
I’m EOD – I can help!
DerKrieger on July 16, 2009 at 12:08 AM
Absolutely
ICBM on July 16, 2009 at 12:09 AM
filthy democrats
filthy little filthy rat ass bastards
blatantblue on July 16, 2009 at 12:09 AM
UGH, stupid computer tonight.
Anyway, did you all read the entire article? I can’t believe something that SICK could make it into the NYT. No wait, yes I can. WHAT THE F*CK???
So, if your legs are paralyzed, you have no right to request research for reversing paralysis if you’re going to insist that your life has equal value to that of a person with two fully-functioning legs? By that logic, there would be no justification for any health care whatsoever based on the idea that all lives have equal value. Mr. Singer (read: @SSHOLE of epic proportions) argues that the ONLY justification for healthcare is the idea that all lives DO NOT have equal value: the young are worth more than the old, the healthy worth more than the sick, the “whole” worth more than the deformed.
Didn’t we used to have a name for this?
Also, after reading this article, I’m sure I’ll feel so much better about me and 13 of my friends sacrificing a grandparent each to the cause of saving one teenager. Or not. I might just rebel. Physically. Stay the f*ck away from my grandparents, Obama.
WOW. Just WOW. Sorry that I’m not coherent at the moment. Reading this made me sick. I fear for our country if this twisted logic becomes commonplace.
Animator Girl on July 16, 2009 at 12:09 AM
The government will
rentloan you a gun but you have to pay for the bullet.Americannodash on July 16, 2009 at 12:05 AM
FIFM
Americannodash on July 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM
Someone with a brain within the GOP has to do an ad campaign where we ask every American “how long would you wait”? Wait for your daughters MRI , your fathers colon cancer surgery, your wife’s breast cancer treatment. How long is too long? Enough about how much this will cost in dollars and taxes. This needs to be personalized about the horrors of rationing and how it will affect all of us.
texaninfidel on July 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM
Go Hogs!! I’m an ex-Arkansan. Love the place. Would love to move back there someday.
I don’t like Huckabee, but i SO wish he would have run against pryor in 2008. He did nothing in the primaries, so why not just put his name in. Pryor unopposed should have been a national embarrassment for the gop.
And now, we have a great chance to get blanche out in 2010… and the only repubs running are the benton countyites, the “that jew” guy…. who knows, maybe he’ll win in a “red” year.
Funny thing about blanche lincoln, in 2004, she was well-known, and ran against that guy that had ZERO tv ads, ZERO radio ads, had ZERO name recognition, and his entire campaign was yard signs with a Jesus fish on them….
…..and he still got about 46%.
If a nobody with a Jesus fish could get blanche within 10 percent, SURELY SURELY there are decent republicans in the state that could beat her this year!
Ah, but i digress….
battleoflepanto1571 on July 16, 2009 at 12:11 AM
Pandora’s Pill Box
mizflame98 on July 16, 2009 at 12:11 AM
prayers for you and your father
as for this, I am joining progressoverpeace’s call for orange jumpsuits
or maybe congressional corpses dragged through the streets of washington
Fallen Sparrow on July 16, 2009 at 12:15 AM
I live in Benton Co. and am in the County GOP. I met a few of the candidates that will be running in the primary to take out Blanche. I think she’ll go down this time.
I’m personally a Gamecock! but love it here.
DerKrieger on July 16, 2009 at 12:17 AM
I can see them telling that to me and anyone else who suffers rare diseases. After all what is the ratio of what we will pay in taxes compared to what it will costs to find a cure?
boomer on July 16, 2009 at 12:27 AM
From the Berlin Times, ca. 1941.
Little Boomer on July 16, 2009 at 12:28 AM
I have one question. How can a law state health care is a “right” and somehow enforce any form of rationing?
Wouldn’t a patient simply sue the government and a judge order that the government must pay any amount or the patient’s right to health care will be violated? We already have state supreme courts ordering the state to spend more on education even after the citizens expressly voted for the amount to be spent on education. Won’t judges simply do the same with health care? Instead of bureaucrats running health care won’t it really be judges in the end?
Rocks on July 16, 2009 at 12:29 AM
Excellent point. If it is a Right…then it cannot be denied by government.
coldwarrior on July 16, 2009 at 12:31 AM
I started my practice at the time of HillaryCare and what killed HillaryCare will kill ObamaCare. A 1,000 page bill that undoubtedly contain the words ILLEGAL, FORBIDDEN, and JAILED.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854
They just can’t stop at governmental support for those who want it and private insurance for those who do NOT.
Marcus on July 16, 2009 at 12:34 AM
What sort of doctor are you?
I had a surprisingly candid discussion today with a surgeon I just met for a consultation, he was more than a bit anxious about the implications of nationalized healthcare.
Bishop on July 16, 2009 at 12:39 AM
I am. But what do we do besides just get angry? Sept 11-12 in DC may be too late. And they are just deluging us with one lib bill after another. I get 10 e-mails/day from conservative groups urging me to call my congressmen over this issue and that issue, I can hardly keep track. The latest is that Harry Reid is sneaking a Hate Crimes (Hate speech, hate thoughts — anti free speech) bill into the Department of Defense spending bill this week! These guys are nuts!
Christian Conservative on July 16, 2009 at 12:42 AM
Christian Conservative on July 16, 2009 at 12:42 AM
Link
Christian Conservative on July 16, 2009 at 12:45 AM
The question, Peter “douchebag” Singer, is why can’t we just provide the same plan that the members of Congress receive.
Answer that, you over-educated, fascist slime ball.
Saltysam on July 16, 2009 at 12:45 AM
Organization chart of House Democrats Health Plan
Joe Bloggs on July 16, 2009 at 12:47 AM
The more extensive and complicated becomes the Americans’ dependence on their “federal” government, the more explosive will be that “federal” government’s demise. I have in mind no particular occasion; to be sure of the “federal” government’s eventual destruction, one need merely observe that everything that comes into being goes out of being. The federal government’s replacement by a “federal” government is a case in point.
Kralizec on July 16, 2009 at 12:51 AM
Do you really think Ogabe, Pelosi, Rangel, etc. would ever allow the little people to mix and mingle with their superiors? Can you imagine Mrs. Lieutenant Ogabe standing in a line with you or I while we wait for care? She can’t.
Bishop on July 16, 2009 at 12:51 AM
Bishop, I am an OBGYN. Just explained to a raging liberal that I think universal coverage for those who want it and private insurance for those who don’t would not be opposed by me but this over-reaching ILLEGAL, JAILED, and FORBIDDEN crap will kill it, just like HillaryCare. Told her she shouldn’t be enraged at “rethuglicans” but at Waxman and Pelosi. She agreed! (cue Hannity music when he converts a liberal)
Marcus on July 16, 2009 at 12:52 AM
Respectfully …
what do you mean by “value”? I agree that all lives have equal value, but when I say it I add the usually unspoken ” … in the eyes of God.” But you see the problem is that God is not the one providing the medical care.
So when we talk about “value” in this context we have to be careful about our terms. Your life is valuable to me on an abstract theological/philosophical level, but quite frankly my wife’s life is a lot more valuable to me than yours.
Under government-run care, the value of a life is determined by the government. Well, what does the government value? Let’s not loose sight of the fact that the government is an entity comprised of bureacrats and politicians. So the question is: what do THOSE people value? The answer is that those people value their own health, the health of their family and friends, and in the abstract sense, the health of people who elect them. Since health care has to be rationed under any system, under a government system it will be rationed for political reasons.
PackerBronco on July 16, 2009 at 12:54 AM
As for doctor care for me and mine were this nationalized disaster to become law, I’ve already talked to people about creating a trade/barter type system. Obviously, technical surgeries and such would be out, but the simpler things could be put into such a system.
Doc gives my kids an exam, I give his car a tune-up, the feds aren’t involved whatsoever.
Bishop on July 16, 2009 at 12:55 AM
That’s how I would say it. The Founders were certainly not enamored of this sort of organization.
progressoverpeace on July 16, 2009 at 12:57 AM
Have to be honest, doc, I was a different person in the 90’s and didn’t pay that much attention to things like this. Do you believe the factors on the ground are the same then as they are now?
I’m not sure when Hillary Care was defeated, but was it after the GOP won big in ‘94? The democrats have all the keys now and a President willing to do literally anything to get his way, what’s to stop them and him from doing their usual “just pass it now and worry about the details later” routine?
Bishop on July 16, 2009 at 12:59 AM
Margaret Sanger, Peter Singer, & Adolf Hitler have all dreamed of this day.
jgapinoy on July 16, 2009 at 1:02 AM
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