Modeling for global warming: Never mind!
posted at 5:30 pm on July 15, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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While Congress debates a cap-and-tax proposal that will kneecap the American economy and drive jobs overseas, the so-called scientific consensus for global warming took a shot to the solar plexus. USA Today reports on a new study that calls into question the entire basis for the modeling that drives the “greenhouse gas” theory of climate change. In fact, its co-author says that climate change modeling is “fundamentally wrong” and that carbon alone did not drive the the rapid warming of the Earth 55 million years ago (via Yid with Lid):
Could the best climate models — the ones used to predict global warming — all be wrong?
Maybe so, says a new study published online today in the journal Nature Geoscience. The report found that only about half of the warming that occurred during a natural climate change 55 million years ago can be explained by excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. What caused the remainder of the warming is a mystery.
“In a nutshell, theoretical models cannot explain what we observe in the geological record,” says oceanographer Gerald Dickens, study co-author and professor of Earth Science at Rice University in Houston. “There appears to be something fundamentally wrong with the way temperature and carbon are linked in climate models.” …
The conclusion, Dickens said, is that something other than carbon dioxide caused much of this ancient warming. “Some feedback loop or other processes that aren’t accounted for in these models — the same ones used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change for current best estimates of 21st century warming — caused a substantial portion of the warming that occurred during the PETM [Palaeocene-Eocene thermal maximum].”
The climate models use the PETM as a major source of data for their modeling. The predictions of disaster come from the rapid warming seen in that period, applied to today’s data. If the models assigned too much reliance on carbon emissions as a cause, then their predictions for future temperature increases become completely unreliable. Since anthropogenic global warming has to this point only occurred in the models, that would be a huge problem for the global-warming industry.
The purported link between warmer temperatures and carbon emissions has been proven wrong just from the temperatures over the last ten years. In 1998, temperatures peaked, and have declined since. The level of carbon emissions hasn’t decreased to any significant extent, which hysterics like Prince Charles note when they claim that the Earth only has 96 months left before disaster strikes. Actual scientists would look at those data points and presume that any linkage between carbon emissions and temperature increases would be flimsy indeed.
Thankfully, some actual scientists have finally begun doing actual science, rather than political hackery in pursuit of government funding. Maybe the best way to prevent anthropogenic global warming is to destroy the only environment where it takes place — in the flawed models used by hysterics.
Update: Anthony Watts noted this yesterday. The comments section there is enlightening, especially this comment:
So, geologic record says…
70% increase in Atmospheric Carbon…
…with a 7 degree C temperature rise.Today we have a 33% increase in Atmospheric Carbon…
…with a ~1 degree C temperature rise…?This is clearly “worse/faster than expected.”
Unless the global warmists are arguing a logarithmic effect for carbon, that also seems to spike the notion that carbon is driving warming. In fact, as many of the commenters note, it’s probably a warming cycle that tends to release more carbon naturally, rather than the other way around. This comment in particular hits that nail on the head:
everyone assumed that CO2 was driving temperature in the vostok cores until they examined them on a decadal level and realized that in every glaciation, temperature started rising 6-1200 years before CO2 did.
increased CO2 is a RESULT of a warmer world. this is very well understood chemistry. heat water and it can hold less dissolved CO2. so when the world warms, oceans outgas. note that mistaking an effect for a cause can ofter look like positive feedback.
THAT is the real problem with the current models. they assume that CO2 drives climate in a meaningful way. this has NEVER been proven or even demonstrated. CO2 is a lagging variable to temperature on any reasonable timescale. the mid troposphere (where the greenhouse effect takes place) has warmed less than the surface in direct contradiction to all of the predictions of these GCM’s. the “fingerprint” that was expected has been shown to be absent by both satellites and radiosondes.
Be sure to read through them all.
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Econometric models have been around longer, are better funded, have better minds working on them, are for simpler systems … and the econometric models are still inaccurate and useless for anything outside of a year 9which isn’t much different from asking Joe Shmo to make a prediction).
To base trillion dollar policies (that will kill our economy) on climate models is pure insanity.
Bonus question: Which econometric models predicted the credit crisis?
I’ll give you zero guesses and you’ll still be correct!
progressoverpeace on July 15, 2009 at 5:33 PM
O’Reiily said the other night that seven of the past ten years were the hottest on record. Heh.
Akzed on July 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM
I don’t need to read through it all…everyone knows the information is based on false or incomplete data.
It is now beginning to unravel, as true scientists are hesitant to put their reputation on the line for this fantasy.
By the end of the this year, global warming will be a laughable subject…except for a few die hard freaks, and people like Hansen who make their living scamming people.
right2bright on July 15, 2009 at 5:35 PM
I’m an idiot and I could tell from the data the CO2 was a trailing indicator, not a leading indicator.
lorien1973 on July 15, 2009 at 5:35 PM
The arbiter of the climate is the sun, the arbiter of the sun is the Son.
fourdeucer on July 15, 2009 at 5:37 PM
The Global Warmists are wanting the nation to step off a cliff, but are promising there is footing there to keep us from falling bases on flawed prediction models?
AlGore,the Libs, and Obama have too much invested in this to admit they are wrong. They will double down on this bad logic GUARANTEED.
portlandon on July 15, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Ice core samples show that there is a relationship between rising temperatures and CO2.
Unfortunately, the Goracle got it backwards. CO2 rise lags temperature rise by about 800 years. Further, as the temp declines, CO2 levels also decline, but at a slower rate.
This means it gets warmer, then CO2 goes up, not the other way around. The last fact de-couples CO2 as a driver of global temperature.
BobMbx on July 15, 2009 at 5:38 PM
I think Gore shouldn’t leave his mouth hanging open like that, he’s emitting too much CO2.
Duc tape anyone?
jbh45 on July 15, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Oh, and I recommend Anthony’s website if you haven’t been there yet. Another excellent website is Climateaudit.org.
BobMbx on July 15, 2009 at 5:40 PM
At least their countdowns are getting shorter, so that when everything is still fine in 8 years, we can all have a good laugh at them.
Snowed In on July 15, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Thank God they admit the basic science is wrong, whew – that was close…
now the House can take that into acoount before…what?
They already passed it?
Hmmmmm, Senators – are you listening??
izoneguy on July 15, 2009 at 5:41 PM
This will not help Al Gore’s childen.
Yakko77 on July 15, 2009 at 5:41 PM
Using a geological record isn’t full proof. And using it as a firm base is not ideal, and those who use it are usually wrong to begin with.
But!
Let me strap this methane inducing carbon sniffer to a moose and energize my hut!
upinak on July 15, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Since Obama says that jobs losses mean the economy is recoveing or “stable”, then obviousy CO2 drives the increase in temperature.
It’s easy if you thik like a libtard.
catmman on July 15, 2009 at 5:43 PM
It’s about power not the climate.
txag92 on July 15, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Pictures please? :P
lorien1973 on July 15, 2009 at 5:44 PM
solar powered sicko!
upinak on July 15, 2009 at 5:46 PM
More factoids.
Facts have nothng to do with GW.
Religion is based on faith.
patrick neid on July 15, 2009 at 5:46 PM
The main problem with the current models is the feedback mechanisms. The temperature will rise if the CO2 content goes up but it is a relatively small amount and would be difficult to pick out of the current up and down cycles. The models assume that small increases in temperature will cause increases in water vapor, which is a strong greenhouse gas, and that this effect will greatly amplify the effect of small amounts warming due to CO2. Recent research suggest in fact this extra water vapor goes into forming more clouds that cool the Earth, so there is no run-a-way reaction and the actual temperature increases may be smaller than the ones just due to CO2 itself. Lots of good stuff on this on Watts’ site linked in the story.
Fredlike on July 15, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Pictures please? :P
lorien1973 on July 15, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Will this do?
txag92 on July 15, 2009 at 5:47 PM
Maybe 55 million years ago, there was Fat Bat, and his queer boy ‘throws like a girl’ pitcher, Robama, and their policies and craziness were the catalysts for this ‘climate change’.
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 5:48 PM
Anyone else notice that big, bright, burning ball of gas way up there in the sky…………..?
Seven Percent Solution on July 15, 2009 at 5:49 PM
This parody seems relevant to the study: Democrats Force Quick Vote on “Cap and Tax” Legislation, Citing an “Escalating Skepticism Crisis” Regarding Climate Warming Theories: http://optoons.blogspot.com/2009/06/democrats-force-quick-vote-on-cap-and.html
Mervis Winter on July 15, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Those models have been wrong since the beginning. When you punch in data from the past – they never accurately reported what happened IN the past.
If they can’t accurately predict what we know happened in the past – why the hell would anyone trust them to predict the future.
Just insane man – freakin’ insane. We’re all mad.
HondaV65 on July 15, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Hmmmmm
I wonder what else could be driving temperature change?
Could it be that giant yellow nuclear fusion thingy in the sky?
Naah! Onward cap and tax!
dlc2 on July 15, 2009 at 5:49 PM
I don’t blame them, they are playing make pretend and walking around with millions in their pockets for it. Although with libs its all make pretend. So I guess they could be logical and have millions but that all makes way too much sense. ahhh right back at square 1.
Tremmy on July 15, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Who are you going to believe, Algore & Ogabe or your own lying eyes?
OhioCoastie on July 15, 2009 at 5:51 PM
This is racism straight up. Global warming denial is just about hating having a black man in the white house…
ronsfi on July 15, 2009 at 5:52 PM
I look at that and wonder – there have to be 1 of 3 things going on here. Either 1) we’re badly misinterpreting that data, 2) We’re not and AGW adherents are stupid, or 3) we’re not and AGW adherents are dishonest.
Now it could be both 2 and 3. I guess it could be 1, but … I mean, it’s not hugely complicated.
TheUnrepentantGeek on July 15, 2009 at 5:52 PM
moooose!
upinak on July 15, 2009 at 5:54 PM
Shocking.
In some equally astounding developments:
University of Hawaii doctors have concluded (with the help of a 73 million dollar federal grant) that swallowing a watermelon seed will not cause a watermelon to grow in your stomach.
A $112 million study (funded by the stimulus) at the University of Delaware has concluded that stepping on a crack will not break your mother’s back.
Univ. of Illinois researchers have finally determined that warts are not caused by toads.
A 136 million dollar study at the University of Chicago was unable to verify any cases where faces of children were “stuck” after contorting into odd expressions.
reaganaut on July 15, 2009 at 5:54 PM
I’m sure MOveon.org sent an email out to supporters for money to launch an ad attacking this report.
darwin on July 15, 2009 at 5:55 PM
hmm.. I’m guessing that whole “Sun” thing had something to do with the earth warming up 55 million years ago.. But I could be wrong…
I’ll report to the re-education camp immediately..
Zippy_Slug on July 15, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Hmmmmmmm…no sunspots the last year, it’s cold. Marauder minimum, it’s cold.
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 5:56 PM
I seem to recall reading somewhere that loss of antarctic ice had some link with increased volcanic activity. Does anyone else recall anything like that?
redshirt on July 15, 2009 at 5:58 PM
Gah! You beat me to it!
It’s amazing all this time all those Gorebull Warming fanatics just totally dismiss that big glowy thing and you can bet the bank they still do. There’s money to e made from this scam and there’s no way a few facts are going to get in the way of that.
Yakko77 on July 15, 2009 at 5:58 PM
I still laugh at the prospect of 4% of the earth’s population (us) will be able to significantly impact the level of CO2 in our atmosphere which is less than 0.04% of the entire volumetric make-up of same. Show me that model!
DanMan on July 15, 2009 at 5:59 PM
The science behind these comments is demonstrated in the video Great Global Warming Swindle, beginning at about 22 minutes in (you can move to that slot).
Jaibones on July 15, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Gore played on my fears!
ronsfi on July 15, 2009 at 6:01 PM
Anyone have any data on solar activity and sunspots over the past 100 years?
Read recently that sunspot activity has been in decline for the past decade…cooler temperatures as less solar energy in the form of bursts of sunspot-related energy is thrown out.
Is the Goracle thinking about stopping solar activity, too?
I am not a scientist…but of all the data I’ve seen thus far, seems solar activity is the arbiter of most of our temperature shifts.
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 6:02 PM
Things are not looking good for the environmental activists’ truisms. Ethanol from corn substituted for gasoline actually looks bad for the earth now, not to mention the pocketbook. The globe refuses to rise in temperature as CO2 rises. The trans-alaskan pipeline seems to have raised the number of caribou rather than lowered it. Arctic winter ice and total ice at the poles is increasing not vanishing. Wind mills and solar panels for electricity are so expensive they are not being built without government subsidy and growth in electrical demand is stalling so green jobs are not being created. The snowy owl and snaildarter are not becoming extinct. Wolves are becoming numerous enough that hunting seasons are proposed. But what is worst of all, people are living longer than ever instead of dying in droves from man-made carcinogins.
The whole “everything is going to heck in a hand basket and only listening to us will save you” left-wing ideology is itself slowly going to heck in a hand basket.
KW64 on July 15, 2009 at 6:03 PM
The Cult of Global Warming has reverted to the notion that the Earth is the center of all things in the solar system.
thomasaur on July 15, 2009 at 6:03 PM
How inconvenient.
backwoods conservative on July 15, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Needed fixin’. :-)
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 6:05 PM
But you looked at the data. How many Congressmen, or movies stars, or news commentators, or even global warming hucksters have done that?
hawksruleva on July 15, 2009 at 6:06 PM
Wow, I wonder how Bill O’Reilly is going to spin this one?
NTWR on July 15, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Gore Lied. The Economy Died.
HornetSting on July 15, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Al Gore needs to be returned to the Earth. He is a waste of semi-organized molecules, designed to do nothing but raise entropy – as opposed to all other living systems – a massive error in the trial and error of evolution.
progressoverpeace on July 15, 2009 at 6:07 PM
Its actualy more simple than that.
Ask ANY Warmer just HOW CO2 will continue to warm the atmosphere when ALL of the energy in the IR Spectrum that CO2 absorbs, is already being absorbed? Adding more CO2 will do nothing, basic physics says to add more temp to the system you would have to increase ENERGY in those IR bands.
They immediatly fall back on… “well, its complicated so let the scientists argue about it”… but I can’t seem to find a scientist who can explain it to me….
Even this article is written by an Oceanographer? Wonder if he knows anything about IR absorbtion spectrums of the Gases (ie, the theory of Green house gasses themselves).
Romeo13 on July 15, 2009 at 6:08 PM
New sunspot cycle just started… like last week. We were in a period of almost no sunspots for quite awhile… but were due to start a new cycle.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2009 at 6:10 PM
LOL… well… gravity is sometimes described as Mass Attraction… and he does have a lot of MASS.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Think for a minute about the difference between what “environmentalists” are saying and what would actually happen. They’re saying that “manmade warming will destroy the earth” and that “manmade warming will hurt nature”.
Let’s say global warming is right, and it’s hugely catastrophic. What happens? Temperature goes up. Which definitely means more plant life. And longer active seasons in northern climes. Oceans may warm rise, which would lead to expanded habitat along the continental shelves, and more active life in the oceans overall. Many animals would be harmed, but many would also benefit. We’re really just picking winners and losers.
Worst case: man, blind to the danger, turns earth into a sauna. Man dies out, due to some cataclysm of oceans rising, or deserts spreading, or insects killing everyone. AFTER man dies out, CO2 emissions drop, the earth cools, and things go back to normal. Whatever that is.
In short, if you’re a nature freak, you should be in favor of global warming.
Of course, it’s all bunk, so rooting for mankind’s doom is just something to keep the hippies happy.
hawksruleva on July 15, 2009 at 6:13 PM
They have been moving the forecast for the start of Cycle 24 for almost a year now. We have currently gone 4 days without a sunspot.
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 6:14 PM
I believe that’s Maunder.
hawksruleva on July 15, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Don’t you mean GWB?
Global Warming Bullcrap? ;-)
cannonball on July 15, 2009 at 6:17 PM
Oh, I don’t know. It is doing a number on the global warming predictions. :)
backwoods conservative on July 15, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Thought I had seen something about a couple of sunspots last week…
Aberations maybe?… not part of the cycle?
Don’t really follow the sunspot activity except for when I see things posted in other types of blogs…
Romeo13 on July 15, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Sadly, you’ll never convince the warmists, no matter how much actual data you give them that conflicts with their new religion. The comments I’ve seen from the faithful indicate that they believe as warming temperatures cause the release of CO2 from the oceans, the increased CO2 in the atmosphere causes additional warming, leading to an out of control circular cycle, increased warming causing more CO2, causing more warming, etc. They ignore the cause of the initial warming, and they ignore the data that indicates that when temperatures fall, CO2 falls as a result. They can’t walk away from the certainty that it’s CO2 that causes increased temperatures, despite all data to the contrary.
mbs on July 15, 2009 at 6:20 PM
Thanks for the correction. I was in a hurry to get to Cominsky Field.
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 6:20 PM
From what I gather the sunspots from once cycle to another have a different polarity. Recent spots have had the cycle 24 polarity. I watch the solarcycle24.com web-site do know if\when I am going to have a good summer for using my pool in Chicagoland. This summer and last…not too good.
WashJeff on July 15, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Do you mean that the sun actually makes us warm?
Johan Klaus on July 15, 2009 at 6:23 PM
CO2 cannot be the problem, or we are dead meat anyway.
96% of annual CO2 emissions are from natural sources.
Eradicate mankind. I mean, we all DIE NOW.
The system is going to go wherever it is going at 96% “throttle”.
And as CO2 has been climbing, temps have been level or falling in 95+% correlation with sunspot activity.
This is not about the environment or science. Its about power and money. Marx just didn’t have a movie to fake the delights of his vision, or he could have been as successful as Algore.
Harry Schell on July 15, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Janeane, is that you?
Oldnuke on July 15, 2009 at 6:25 PM
Good idea… but no pool for me here in Denver… and El Ninyo seems to have more effect on my sport (snow skiing) than sunspots.
Allthough I did get sunburned at the Pool at a Holiday Inn last summer…
/smile
Romeo13 on July 15, 2009 at 6:25 PM
It’s like a cold wind blowing over AGW.
the_nile on July 15, 2009 at 6:26 PM
I swear to God, if I saw Al Gore in public, I’d give him a verbal beating that would make his swollen head spin.
marklmail on July 15, 2009 at 6:27 PM
You nailed it, “the theory“.
Johan Klaus on July 15, 2009 at 6:28 PM
I did not know that Bush was black.
Johan Klaus on July 15, 2009 at 6:29 PM
There is no global warming but Man-Made Global Warming and Al-Gore(low pressure be upon him) is its Profit !!!
Repent your wickedness Ed !!!
Rebuke the Deep Sea Cores of Blasphemy !!!eleventy!1!
Disavow the satanic sorcery of empirical science !!!111!
Accept the teachings of the Profit(LPBUH) as was divined in the holiest of holies, Earth in the Balance !!!1!
The time of holy war, cap and trade, is almost upon the Earth !!!1!one!
elgeneralisimo on July 15, 2009 at 6:30 PM
Hate to say it… but Lab tests show that CO2 does absorb IR in very specific wavelengths, which excite the Molecules, which then warm the air around it via Conduction.
Which is why its called a Greenhouse gas.
Problem is, that once a specific level of CO2 is reached, it absorbs all the energy in those IR bandwidths… thus adding more CO2 does nothing…
http://www.nov55.com/atmo.html
The above chart shows the CO2 Absorbtion spectrum, vs the amount of energy in our biosphere already being absorbed in those wavelengths.
CO2 IS a Greenhouse gas, but its already doing the maximum amount of warming it can do WITHOUT adding ENERGY.
Problem is that most of these “scientists” don’t seem to know of this little CO2 limitation.
Romeo13 on July 15, 2009 at 6:41 PM
You would think this would end the debate, but it only makes way for the eventual global cooling concern. In any case you knew this was going to come to a head when they shifted their rhetoric from global warming to climate change. With the word climate change, any change in the weather must be stopped with CO2 emission cuts. As conservatives we all know that this was a sham from the beginning to bring about global socialism. We knew this and being this close, these people even with this evidence staring them in the face, are not going to withdraw. We need a true conservative champion like Daniel Hannan of Britian who can stared down these liberal socialist. Who is our champion?
milemarker2020 on July 15, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Also, unless I just can’t recall my college science courses, a warmer, moister world would see an increase in the rate of Krebs Cycle metabolism…releasing more CO2 faster than in a cold world.
More vegetation would grow, more would decompose faster
Ragspierre on July 15, 2009 at 6:50 PM
Obama, Gore and the rest of the climate change posse. Fingers in ears LA LA LA can’t hear you LA LA LA.
Greed on July 15, 2009 at 6:50 PM
They can always say that there was a second greenhouse gas along with the CO2 contributing to the overall greenhouse effect during that time.
Perhaps they will tell us that a lot of nitrous oxide resulted from an extinction event as all that death putrified resulting in ammonia which oxidized into nitrous oxide.
Buddahpundit on July 15, 2009 at 6:52 PM
And they gave Algore a Nobel Prize for this?
mph on July 15, 2009 at 6:58 PM
I have no intention of reading “through them all.”
The sun does it. When it is active (sunspots) the earth warms up, when it is inactive (like the past ten years) the earth cools off.
So, when a kid is asked: “what makes the earth warm” and the kid answers: “the sun”, that kid, as unbelievable as it sounds, has just flat out got it 100% right.
Danzo on July 15, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Then they ought to be able to correlate the two events (warming and an extinction event) rather nicely in the record.
And, again calling on my science courses, nitrogen would be rather quickly fixed in the biosphere.
Ragspierre on July 15, 2009 at 7:02 PM
No s..t Sherlock; My high school chemistry students were able to reason through this once they had been taught about “chemical equilibrium.”
chemman on July 15, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Ed,
If you were the IG for the Office of the Climate Czar you would be forced to resign immediately and be declared mentally unfit for your thoughts against the state.
econavenger on July 15, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Aren’t you edukated. Scientists are the new High Priests on the block. You just have to believe them. /sard
chemman on July 15, 2009 at 7:11 PM
Al Gore should become a billionaire once this thing is passed. He, Goldman Sachs, GE and the green supporters will get richer, the poor will get poorer because of an additional energy tax of $1200 per year they will pay to heat, light, and cool their homes and put gas in their cars. They will also have to pay more for EVERYTHING because businesses will pass their increased costs down to the folks. It looks like a Lose-Lose situation except for the friends of the President, who will be well taken care of. How many poor people are going to die because they can’t afford to heat their home in the extreme winter or cool their home in the extreme heat during summer? Does anyone in Washington care? Probably not; their is just too much money to be made off of Cap ‘N Trade….
DL13 on July 15, 2009 at 7:12 PM
/sard = /sarc
damn my silly fingers keep hitting the wrong keys
chemman on July 15, 2009 at 7:13 PM
How many poor people are going to die because they can’t afford to heat their home in the extreme winter or cool their home in the extreme heat during summer? Does anyone in Washington care?
Ragspierre on July 15, 2009 at 7:15 PM
You got that right. A very hot spot for volcanic activity was causing problems. Once the volcanoes were identified the MSM lost interest.
chemman on July 15, 2009 at 7:17 PM
That’s harsh. :)
chemman on July 15, 2009 at 7:22 PM
I made my living for nearly 50 years supervising or applying various specialties of the geoscience world. I cannot even begin to list the number of projects I saw fail or falter through those years.
The majority of those problems were due to scientists who went into the field and saw exactly what they knew, and expected, they would see before they even left the office. Closed minds and personal agendas drove me nuts.
Many explorationists were (and still are) married to their models. Those coming behind them, with more open or curious minds, have often discovered the subtle things that made them, or their companies, very rich.
It is even easier to identify such BS in these flawed climate models: just follow the money, the grants and the tenure.
Yoop on July 15, 2009 at 7:27 PM
That would be one part of the effect. The major effect comes from the changing equilibrium between atmospheric and oceanic CO2. The ocean takes longer to heat up thus continues releasing CO2 after the atmosphere has begun cooling. Hence the long lag times 600-1200 years.
chemman on July 15, 2009 at 7:29 PM
It is like trying to debate with someone who believes sweating causes your body temperature to rise. Exercise (sun spot activity, earth wobble, etc) has nothing to do with your body getting warmer.
timpstewart on July 15, 2009 at 7:35 PM
They seem to be basing this fundamentally on the Venusian atmosphere and the conclusions drawn by Dr. Carl Sagan, et al, very much a part of the “we’re going to destroy ourselves somehow, some day” crowd. Very Humanist…only Man can decide his destiny one way or another. The power of Nature or anything else beyond our control is conveniently ignored.
The problem with the Venus model is we simply don’t know for sure what Venus used to be like; was it ever like earth with all that water to absorb or release CO2 depending on conditions? Was their photosynthetic life on land and sea on Venus?
Nobody likes smog and other forms of pollution and certainly some cities have to take more draconian measures to deal with it. OK. But to apply those same standards nationwide is political rather than necessary or practical.
Dr. ZhivBlago on July 15, 2009 at 7:56 PM
I trust fabulous supermodels over these confabulated climate models.
At least their warming is based on something real.
Gore is Carbon Whore.
profitsbeard on July 15, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Actually they do predict the past, but they first had to edit historical record. Remember how Mann eliminated both the Little Ice Age and the Midieval Warming Period despite evidence of these all over the globe (Northern AND Southern hemispheres)? Considering the way that the GISS data is now off of all other indicators by .5C+, alarmists are pretty stellar at editing the current readings too!
theCork on July 15, 2009 at 8:00 PM
Actually, Anthony Watts has been in communication with a solar scientist who specializes in this, and the scientist is not convinced the new cycle is really going to amount to anything. We may still be in for an extended period of no or minimal spot activity.
We really are in a Minimum, and all of our climatic cycles are completely responding to it. We may see some seriously bad Winters over the next few years, with all the hardship that entails.
I’m wondering what kind of impact this will have on the El Nino that is forming in the Pacific right now. Will it counter-balance the often extreme weather the United States Pacific coast sees, or enhance it? Wonder if there have been any studies on this.
Yes, I’m a weather nerd. I’ve been following the AGW kerfuffle with a great deal of skepticism. I finally went from skeptic to total disbelief a couple of years ago. The data sucks; the science is questionable, at best; the models are horrifying; the mathematical justifications are pathetic; and the advocates are, at best, uninformed, and at worst, simply lying.
nukemhill on July 15, 2009 at 8:11 PM
BINGO!! We should still lower our CO2 emissions if possible but only in a win win way. To destroy the economy is crazy. Hysteria politics is very dangerous. Conservatives love the environment as much as anyone, but we see humans as part of nature.
This is Gores MO. Swift Boat ads was true. I remember Al Gore and other guys testifying about horrors our GIs was doing to Vietnam people. Many of those testifying was later shown to not seen any combat, they were support logistics guys. Al Gore wanted to be president early on, thats why he went to Vietnam to become a war hero. When that didn’t work out he became prince war protester to launch his political career, never mind trashing the Vietnam Solder. To this day people have this idea of the Vietnam solder as some kind of monster that never was. Vast majority of our guys were heroes, one not being Gore. Gore should be made to eat his vomit lies.
Ed Laskie on July 15, 2009 at 8:39 PM
this was all said in “The Great Global Warming Swindle,” which you can Google and watch the whole thing (even though the video and the audio aren’t well synched it is still well worth watching). It is a documentary interviewing actual climatologists. I’ll take that over blowhard Algore, and pretty-boy Leo DeCaprio any day.
“It’s the sun, stupid.”
kscheuller on July 15, 2009 at 9:04 PM
The Great Global Warming Swindle
kscheuller on July 15, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Ted Baxter actually believes in global warming… he must hang out to much with Shep.
CC
CapedConservative on July 15, 2009 at 9:29 PM
I thought that it was a given of weather science that models are not supposed to be predictive.
smellthecoffee on July 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Remember the Goracle and others talking about the massive outbreak of category 5 hurricanes hitting all across the southern coast that were supposed to take place last year due to global warming?
How’d that prediction work out, anyway?
coldwarrior on July 15, 2009 at 9:47 PM
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