An American government health-care system you should know
posted at 12:16 pm on July 14, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Over the last few months, as Barack Obama’s plans to transform the health-care industry in America have proceeded, I have written extensively on the two existing government-run health-care systems and their myriad problems: Medicare/Medicaid and the VA. It seems I missed a third that may be worse than either or perhaps both combined. Mary Clare Jalonick of the Associated Press provides an eye-opening report on Indian Health Service, a single-payer system that rations care to Native Americans on reservations across the country — and kills them through neglect and a severe lack of resources:
On some reservations, the oft-quoted refrain is “don’t get sick after June,” when the federal dollars run out. It’s a sick joke, and a sad one, because it’s sometimes true, especially on the poorest reservations where residents cannot afford health insurance. Officials say they have about half of what they need to operate, and patients know they must be dying or about to lose a limb to get serious care.
Wealthier tribes can supplement the federal health service budget with their own money. But poorer tribes, often those on the most remote reservations, far away from city hospitals, are stuck with grossly substandard care. The agency itself describes a “rationed health care system.”
The sad fact is an old fact, too.
The U.S. has an obligation, based on a 1787 agreement between tribes and the government, to provide American Indians with free health care on reservations. But that promise has not been kept. About one-third more is spent per capita on health care for felons in federal prison, according to 2005 data from the health service.
Without a doubt, the people on the reservations represent some of the poorest of the poor in America. Yet we already have a single-payer system in place to provide health care to Native Americans on these reservations. Do we properly fund it? Do we make sure that enough resources are applied to ensure good health care? Not at all. It is, as the agency itself describes, a system of rationing medical resources, and the end result is a poor population unable to seek out its own care locked into a system that only works when someone is on death’s door.
In fact, as Jalonick reports, it often doesn’t recognize when a patient faces death. Jalonick profiles the heartrending case of Ta’Shon Rain Little Light, who began complaining of stomach pains at the age of 5, and stopped eating and playing. The overwhelmed clinic diagnosed her as depressed, and ten subsequent visits to the clinic over the next several months while Ta’Shon’s symptoms worsened didn’t change the diagnosis. Only when she suffered a collapsed lung did IHS airlift her to Denver, where Ta’Shon was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Could it have been treated? We’ll never know, thanks to a diagnostic service that appears to be just above the wild-guess level on the reservation.
When government owns the nation’s health-care system, we can all look forward to the same level of care. After all, as Obama himself insists, a government-run system will “save costs,” but he never explains how those costs get saved. We will all go into the rationing-system grinder, just as veterans do with the VA, seniors and disabled do with Medicare, and Native Americans do with IHS.
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this as it is proposed will KILL small business job growth
KILL IT DEAD, like RAID as oppossed to the rambling undead healthcare we will get under TOTUS
The Rangel plan calls for a surcharge on any small business that employs over 25 people without giving them insurance
so as any capitalist knows, under the increasingly heavy tax burden there coupled with the 3% surcharge (today they say 1% on income over 300k which is of course most small businesses) will drive people to GALT IT
IOW employ 24 people and earn 299,000 a year
bye bye jobs
bye bye happiness
hello Carter-ness
I feel like I could cry-y
goodbye my jobs goodbye-ee
ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:09 PM
The article you link to is one 12 years old, and two, is for members of congress, i.e., the chosen few. They and other government employees won’t be forced into Obama care.
Blake on July 14, 2009 at 1:09 PM
That is the simple fix. Re-introduction of market forces into the insurance game will fix many of the problems.
Payroll companies, like ADT, are part of the problem. They have 1 or 2 plans to choose from, available to thousands of businesses who use their service. When, if they didn’t offer such plans, thousands of plans would be available to everyone. Choice.
lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I also ask for generic. Up until late, it seems the Doc’s aren’t giving prescriptions that are anything other then the New Thing! And I don’t think they work… IMHO.
The reason I pay out of pocket for everything and go to the insurance for a reimbursement. It works for me. I also do it with Dental and Eye exams.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Kaiser is the best insurance I have had in my 25 working years. I can’t tell you how many people I know wish they had it instead of the more expensive plans their company provides.
I insure all of the employees in my small business with KP plans.
oceansidecon on July 14, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Buckeye Sam…..I know way too many people who have “pretend” insurance.
They will be bankrupt the minute they try to use it. They are doing their best to purchase some kind of healthcare for families.
It’s a disaster out there. Even people with jobs are finding pre-existing conditions are literally putting their personal health into deep jepardy.
It’s not right.
I’ll never, ever yield on this issue. We need real reform.
I personally support a public option as a start.
If there were anything that didn’t just kiss the butts of healthcare industry folks coming from the GOP, I’d give it a listen.
This lobby is entirely too powerful. The profits tell the story.
And it’s got to stop.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:12 PM
You want your private policy, keep it.
But stop blocking reform.
It’s dispicable.
It earns only the reputation that the GOP hates real people and small businesses.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM
What a jerk. Look at what has beeen and you will see the future in “O” Dumbos health care plan.
Between 2001 qnd 2007 looks like the small buisness were doing fine to me.
People should understand the closer “O” Dumbo got to being POTUS the wores the economy became. I believe the people that knew jumped.
Soros has been planing this recession for years.
He got the Dem’s to do his bidding at F May&F Mack. This started the downturn and it was perpertrated by the Dems.
And who put Ca. in the tank??? Dem’s.
Who put Detroit in the tank Dem’s.
Rick007 on July 14, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Hey. Dumb liberal b!tch. Kaiser is a PRIVATE INSURER.
My down-syndrome buddy has a higher IQ than you.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:13 PM
What anninca and others who are so ready to give up freedom and choice (and you will give them up with obamacare) don’t understand is those who are in the most need of health care for serious health issues will be the most expensive and thus the most expendible. You’re committing suicide, both personally and nationally, by begging the feds to take over health care.
If you want to kill yourself, be my guest but don’t take the rest of us with you.
Monica on July 14, 2009 at 1:13 PM
As a former Dr. & Blue Cross provider, following a training stint at a couple of VA installations, I can tell you it’s bad. At one VA hospital I was at they had one physician on staff who was disbarred in the state but allowed to practice at the VA because it was federal property. They also had two other doctors that were actively psychotic. The film “One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest” was based on the authors experiences at the Palo Alto VA in CA.
Is this what we want? Ask the little Canadian girl who now has no legs thanks to government health care. A friend from Sweden is just returning from attending her sisters funeral. She died thanks to having to wait a year for a test to confirm if she had cancer. By then it was too late.
shmendrick on July 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM
during our primaries, TOTUS bit Hills plan to open the congressional health plan (which is the same one the postal workers get) to all of us..it is run by CAC a private company
once he pushed Hill out, he seems to have lost that promise someplace….
these Medicare cuts are OUTRAGEOUS and no one is talking about them
600Billion in cuts to cardiologists EKG payments, stents, caths, MRIs, hip replacements
this as Seniors are working LONGER to make up for the loss of their 401k
If we let Seniors have a new hip and let them keep working we can POSSIBLY get out of the demographic hole which is the root cause of all this, there will be many more contributions to SS by these working could not afford to retire Seniors….
but Noooooo Barry wants to GUT medicare and let these pepole die off instead…sickening and these poor bastids voted for this….trying to relive their heydey in the 60s and McGovern of their youth no doubt, poor suckahs
ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM
The costs and problems with the other types of insurance is FINALLY making people take a second look at Kaiser type insurance.
I loved mine. It was logical. It kept costs down. I do admit, though, I’m one who thinks that people should actually pay attention. They tell you antibiotics don’t address viruses, for gosh sakes, stop making your doctor give you a scrip!
Kaiser ignores you when your request is silly. I like that.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM
You know lorien, I was going to start a payroll business. I am very good at payroll in multiple States from tax to State and Federal Davis Bacon, including Union dues and other “odd’ items. When I was looking into it, I was asked if I would also include a healthcare. I looked at the guy and said no… but I would deduct it from the employees check, with a quarterly summary given to the “owner” of the company or the accountant for them to figures out the figures on it concerning healthcare.
He didn’t like my answer and started rumors about how I was incompetent. I may not be able to spell… but I was very upset about this jerk. It is a payroll company, not a healthcare insurance provider. I didn’t start it for that reason. I was very put off.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Wouldn’t it be nice if you didn’t have to go begging to the drug cartel to get what you want?
Wouldn’t it be nice if you did your homework, made a decision, took personal responsibility, and walked into a pharmacy and bought whatever you wanted?
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Shoulda just said that you would give the employee the money to buy their own healthcare ;)
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM
anninca
have you looked at the Wyden-Bennett plan? it is bipartisan reform. google
ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/2/749230/-Flipping-Insurance-Industry-Democrats
Riiiiigggghhhtt. B/c it’s just the GOP who wants to keep private insurance. You should recognize the link – DKOS!
JAM on July 14, 2009 at 1:16 PM
HMO versus private plans is obviously what I was meaning.
But your very nasty remark pretty much reveals what you’re all about to everyone.
Trust me. When I get snarked like that? I not only don’t take it personally, it reinforces that at least I’m not on your side.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:17 PM
You like being ignored? Just wait until you see the world-class ignoring you’ll get from gubmint!
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Limey why do I get the feeling you are in the “bidness” of pharm-pills?
Dude.. I don’t make the rules.. I just pay the dues.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Most companies join payroll companies to offload the pain of managing health insurance. It’s a lot easier to tell people “the payroll company has rules” rather than “we can’t do that” – it offloads responsibility. And don’t think that’s not attractive.
I worked in a hotel where most employees signed up with the program. You have no idea how much of a headache it was for the HR people to deal with it, even when it’s offloaded. People expected them to make appointments and everything. They didn’t want to do anything. It was crazy.
lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 1:18 PM
That’s why ‘public healthcare’ advocates are sociopaths. They are incapable of understanding the damage they do to others.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:18 PM
I would pay them more if they went and showed me they had their own insurance. But alas… I am unable to do that. I don’t own a bidness no mo.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:19 PM
yes love those people who like when their silly request is ignored by the big HMO
Like thr women in the UK who are so silly and want chemo for their breat cancer!!!
those silly people over age 60 who want to walk and want a knee of a hip!!
whats REALLY hillarious is when those 50 y/os with family hx of heart diease think they can get a stent!! BWAAHAA!! AS IF! Why would we waste money on something silly like that when most people with heart dx history die young anyway?!
ha ha ha
frakkin sickening
ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:19 PM
gotta dash, spelling goes down when temper goes up…
ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:19 PM
have you looked at the Wyden-Bennett plan? it is bipartisan reform. google
OK. I will. One thing that McCain pushed was opening up state lines. But there was a real problem with his solution, which is absolutely no control other than state insurance agents.
That was a problem.
In CA, the major healthcare providers have sunk into old 1930’s tactics. They’ll sell you a policy. But the minute you need it? They find a reason to kick you out.
It doesn’t matter if you’re in the middle of radiation treatment.
It’s disgusting. The only way we can currently stop this is through state insurance oversight.
So John’s plan bothered me. That’s not good protection.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Crowder says Don’t get sick on Sunday in Canada… and Monday isn’t that much better.
The Monster on July 14, 2009 at 1:20 PM
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:14 PM
if your so happy with your plan why push so hard for reform?
SHARPTOOTH on July 14, 2009 at 1:20 PM
STRIKE!
No. I have nothing to do with the pharma industry whatsoever.
I was only trying to prompt you to wonder why you have to go through the bullshit you currently endure.
If you want to try drug X, wouldn’t it be nice to just go into a pharmacy and just buy some? No prescription needed…
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Oh I know. I even had the software I paid 10K for concerning the payroll comp I wanted to start.
But, I was willing to work with heathcare comps and their premiums to deduct it. I had also been a payroll manager for years for the oil industry. I was doing all the medical as well as the “alternative” like Aflac.. I wanted to RIP my hair out.
Don’t get me started on Child Support… or anything else that was to be “striped” out of their checks!
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Kaiser, while nominally private, is an mild example of national health care. Instead of the government rationing healthcare it’s a corporation trying to make as much money as possible while doing as little as possible for the lowest cost.
A friend had a vasectomy at one of their places and they botched it. On a Saturday, after his testes swelled to three times normal size and were filled with blood he called. They told him to call back at 9am on Monday morning. Fortunately he lived to write a very funny song about it all. That was shortly before his wife got pregnant.
shmendrick on July 14, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Dude this isn’t Canada, or Europe. Come on Limey.. youknow better.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Remember school lunches. My son (while he was in public school) kept reciting a report that said that more was spent on convicts than school kids for meals.
That is because convicts are more likely to get a lawyer and sue. Squeaky (or politically connected) wheels get the grease.
Now back to more wealth redistribution — imagine how government healthcare can facilitate that!
IlikedAUH2O on July 14, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Another unintended consequence of this douchebaggery is when a parent dies b/c they didn’t get the treatment they needed, suddenly there are children that need to be cared for. Who pays for that? It is a never ending cycle of stupidity at the taxpayers expense! AAHAHHAHHAHHA! I agree. Temperature rising!!
JAM on July 14, 2009 at 1:23 PM
That’s a shame.
I would say “here’s you salary, and here’s your healthcare bonus”….they can spend it how they wish. Not your problem from that day forward.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I want real medical advice. Not the latest fad. I don’t want anti-biotics if that’s ineffectual. Tell me what to do, I’ll do it.
I see people with private plans calling and dictating treatment based on what their neighbor said worked.
Seriously.
It’s stupid. Private doctors are hostage! They can’t say. No, that’s not good medicine.
I know you don’t believe me, but Kaiser was absolutely outstanding for my entire family. My son chose this plan, too, after being raised in Kaiser.
Yes, there are standard protocols. Yes, you’re not going to get to boss your doctor around.
I say, YOU are the ones with little respect for your doctors.
You don’t like their answers.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:23 PM
What was funny, is even the controller (!!) would talk to the HR person and bitch about the cost and everything. And he knew the HR person had nothing to do with it at all. I never got that, at all.
I was in AP and AR. When they trained me in HR and payroll, I was like….yeah…no thanks. I don’t need to deal with retards all day. Unfortunately, now that I own a business, all I do is deal with em. heh.
lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM
It isn’t my problem now.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:24 PM
That’s a terrible but funny story. My 2nd husband had that procedure. Did they not know about the waiting period?
Still….you made me laugh.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM
I think you are seriously misunderstanding what I’m asking you.
I am advocating a radically deregulated free-market PRIVATE healthcare marketplace.
‘Prescriptions’ are nothing more than tickets to gain access to a legalized drug cartel. They should be abolished.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM
It is a payroll company, not a healthcare insurance provider. I didn’t start it for that reason. I was very put off.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM
So instead of being able to open a business and provide possible jobs or be independent some one decided you weren’t worthy. What a heart break. Business are in business to make money not provide health care.
fourdeucer on July 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM
It works only twice a day.
WashJeff on July 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM
thank you Ed… did you take my hint to do this from comments past? you should have asked me, I can give you loads of examples of how our system (Native Healthcare) doesn’t work.
Kaptain Amerika on July 14, 2009 at 1:25 PM
Are you retarded? You’re singing the praises of Kaiser, A PRIVATE INSURER, yet advocating for ‘public healthcare’.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:27 PM
I’m frankly sick and tired of folks like AnninCA and Obaa-aa-maa telling me that they think they know more and are important enough to tell me what I can and can’t do with my own health maintenance.
Let me put it this way, anninca, you will NOT make these decisions for me. Even if I have to FIGHT to keep it. And yes, that is a threat. Take my insurance, or make it so I can’t have affordable private insurance, and let’s see what happens.
F off, you ignorant, statist, b!tch.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:27 PM
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:23 PM
speaking of being ignored, answer my question, if kayser is so good why push so hard for reform?
SHARPTOOTH on July 14, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Reform means to improve it, make it better. Obamacare doesn’t do that, so stop playing word games.
If people were serious about reforming healthcare, we could all go to health savings accounts (deducted from paychecks pre-tax), have insurance for actual emergenices and serious illness. Throw in some tort reform, keep illegals out of the emergency room for the sniffles and you’re off to a great start.
And ya – I may be able to keep my private plan for a while, but my kids won’t have one because they will be out of business.
I have a real problem now with everyone saddling my kids with all this debt and now you want to put them (and my grandkids) on gub’mint healthcare. I don’t think so.
reaganaut on July 14, 2009 at 1:28 PM
That seems to work fine in Europe, but then they aren’t up to their armpits in lawyers over there. You OD on drugs and die because you’re stupid, your heirs don’t get to sue for $20 million and win.
Americans, on the other hand, have to be treated like illiterate children, according to our “Representative” masters.
NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Legitimate question. It is because CA has been struggling to control the private insurers for years.
I’m tell you guys. It’s a bust. We failed.
They are like the creeps in the 1930’s, taking premiums and then rewarding employees for kicking people off who actually have a need.
It’s beyond disreputable. It’s fraud.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:30 PM
And for the idiot who said that the GOP was in favor of big corporations who provide healthcare…. well guess what? The GOP workers here have a Medical Savings Account plan. The idea is to eliminate the middle men. No government interference, no corporate interference, just Doctors & patients making the decisions as to what needs to be done. AND, no waiting. This is healthcare the way it should be. This is what the GOP is promoting.
shmendrick on July 14, 2009 at 1:30 PM
That’s crap. My mom was given two years to live by a doctor who’s an expert in his field. She didn’t like his answer, so she did some research on her own, found a clinical study for a new drug, and got herself enrolled, despite her doctor’s skepicism. That was twelve years ago — I had dinner with my mom on Sunday.
We have the right to have a say in the treatment of our own bodies. We can and should question our doctors. And thank God we have a system (for now) that fosters innovation and research and does not believe that it’s a waste of money to treat a 50 year old woman with experimental medication.
In any other country, my mom would have died long ago.
patriette on July 14, 2009 at 1:31 PM
Some people are ignorant of what some can do and won’t do. I will not provide something that isn’t worth the headache. I was going to have reasonable fees for paying their employees as well as deal with the feceral taxes, state taxes and other stuff like medicare, S.S. payments and Union Dues depending. I still have the software but it is over 7 yrs old.. so I would actually have to buy new software. It is actually kind of sad.
upinak on July 14, 2009 at 1:31 PM
and you think it will be better with oboobi and the guv ment running the show?
SHARPTOOTH on July 14, 2009 at 1:32 PM
You arrogant statist!
I pay $400/month for my family (a bargain) with a very high deductible and relatively high copays (dont go in that much), and we in turn get great coverage. I sleep at night knowing that if anything catastrophic happens to my wife or myself, for example, I will be covered.
Will I have a high deductible that might end up on a credit card bill? Sure. BUt it beats being dead.
The thing that galls me is that I LIKE MY HEALTH INSURANCE; but because YOU “FEEL BAD” FOR OTHERS, you are going to TAKE AWAY MY HEALTH INSURANCE and force the vaunted ‘public option’ on me or my employer, causing MY EMPLOYER TO GET THE GOVERNMENT PLAN.
Let’s review!
1. I’m happy with what I have
2. You are sad for poor people
3. Your remedy for them is to take what I have away
4. And replace it, not with something that is ‘average’ or ‘mediocre’, but replace it with a system that has a history of passively killing Indians, Veterans, and the Elderly
Pardon me, but @#$% your liberalism!!!!!!!! If you’re so upset about everyone else’s health insurance, why not get a JOB? Why not sell your computer? Why not give up your internet access and use that money and DONATE it to a FREE HEALTH CLINIC
Except…. you won’t do that….
Like a true california liberal, you will B@#$@ about “the rich” but still have a lifestyle like a queen.
How many hours did you volunteer at your free clinic last year? I’m guessing… er… ZERO.
Thanks for publicly wishing to ruin my family’s life. When I’m denied treatment someday by the Department of Red Tape, I’ll remember your name and prevent my children from playing with any girl unfortunate enough to share your moniker.
Good night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
battleoflepanto1571 on July 14, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Good for her. Believe me. I AGREE with you. I hate the smugness of the medical profession. There are many diseases that are way up for grabs in terms of prognosis, and many trials going on that, I think, are proving effective.
Most of those are coming out of the education-centererd research labs. We could debate education funds next, and it would be entirely relevant to this discussion.
I’m not talking about that type of deal. I’m talking about someone insisting that an anti-biotic will cure their cold.
These are the people who have helped create a problem now. They refused to accept common medical information. Now, we can’t treat real illnesses because they have created “meta-bugs.”
I do resent that, btw.
Good grief. Have a cuppa soup, buy tissues, get through a dang cold.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Hear. F’n HEAR!
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:36 PM
I know of no healthcare marketplace in Europe that you can buy any drug you wish at a pharmacy. I don’t know what you’re talking about.
As far as liability is concerned, many have mentioned that tort reform is needed, but I doubt it would be required in this instance. After all, I can buy as much scotch as I like and kill myself, and Johnny Walker need not fear a lawsuit.
I think you would see a shift in drug advertising. Much more informative and cautious. Rather than prompting you to pester your doctor for crap you don’t need.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Because of your advocacy of the public option, I’ve finally learned my lesson not to engage you anymore.
I’m all for eliminating the influence of insurance (or any monied) lobbyists. But please demonstrate for me how they support GOP pols over Democratic pols. I don’t know the contribution percentages, but I’m fed up with unsupported allegations.
Public option, hell no.
BuckeyeSam on July 14, 2009 at 1:37 PM
I hope so. Here? We have case after case where the insurance company immediately starts finding a reason you “lied” on your application. They then kick you off.
They do not refund your premiums, either.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:37 PM
+100
You and JAM have solved the problem. Move away from employer-provided insurance and require (if you must) people to buy their own coverage. Contrary to what AnninCA thinks, this would actually be very pro-small business, as these businesses would no longer be obligated to provide this benefit at staggering expense to their own bottom lines. We don’t expect the government for pay for homeowner or car insurance; why should it pay for health insurance?
And many people ARE overinsured. I know I have been when I was covered by my employer. I’m paying out every month and going to the doctor maybe once a year — and that would be for a routine checkup. As a single person with no family members to cover, I would greatly welcome the opportunity to give up the cushy benefits plan in exchange for higher pay.
If we had to cover our own care, I think people would be more diligent about how often they go to the doctor. This would also drive down cost. People should be encouraged to use low-cost clinics like those at Wal-Mart and Target instead of going to the emergency room over a garden-variety cold or flu. And a typical catastrophic plan ought to be all most healthy people need. It’s what I have and it’s cheap, efficient and suits me just fine.
Government can make all of this an easier burden for people to bear if they would make HSAs more widely available to all Americans, as opposed to just the self-employed.
Loosening restrictions on private insurers to pool premiums and implementing much-needed tort reform rounds it all out. If we could do all of this, I would bet the great majority of Americans could afford to insure themselves and all without the long lines and rationing we’d have to endure under Obamacare.
Of course there will always be people who are chronically ill and can’t work, or are too poor to even afford a basic plan. But we already have programs in place to address these needs. They are incredibly inefficient, of course, but possibly if they were all combined under one umbrella and quasi-privatized, I would bet that would help a great deal.
NoLeftTurn on July 14, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Take your stinking paws off my healthcare, you damned dirty donks!!
Blake on July 14, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Bye, then, Buckeye.
I simply disagree with you.
Here’s what’s relevant from a big-picture. If the GOP is dug in on these issues?
Then, no wonder the rolls are shrinking.
You’ll not be able to sustain a party with a closed mind.
Your choice.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Who the hell are YOU to tell Physicians what they can and can’t try to treat illnesses? What if what you, in your vast expert medical opinion, THINK is a cold, is actually something else that CAN be treated with antibiotics? Leave the diagnosing and treating to actual doctors – and again, stop telling others what they can and can’t do with their medical health.
Ugh. Please go away, and worry about yourself, rather than everyone else’s business.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Didn’t say there is. But you can buy most drugs over there OTC, that we have to have a prescription for, over here. Not heroin or meth of course.
I don’t know how many visits to the doctor I could have avoided if I could have just gone to the pharmacist and not go to the doctor, for an obvious solution to a medical problem.
NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Their costs would not change, but their responsibilities would.
I would demand to receive the money they were paying for my healthcare. It’s all part of my remuneration package. It belongs to me. I earned it.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:41 PM
There is plenty of stories from MDs who admit that their private practices involve giving in to bad medicine.
I take it you’re one who wants an antibiotic with every sniffle.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Bollocks. Who the hell has been feeding you that crap?
It’s just as restrictive as it is here. I know, I have lived in both systems. I am the proverbial horses mouth ;)
…and horses ass…
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:43 PM
AnninCa’s faith in medical bureaucracy is all of a piece with her faith in the wisdom of government to make important decisions for the uninformed “little people.” Lefties have a fetish for giving control to people they see as “elites” — media tongue-bathing of the Niebuhr-savvy Obama is just one example. It is Leftist dogma that The People for whom the “progressives” exert themselves are too dimwitted to act in their own self-interest, and must have a vanguard of really smart people looking out for them. (Funny, Marx thought exactly the same thing!)
The Founding Fathers rejected this idea completely and had deep reservations about anything that could be seen as promoting a ruling class. Small-government Conservatives share this view, and have faith in the basic ability of individuals to act in their own self-interest, without need for nanny-state handholding.
Cicero43 on July 14, 2009 at 1:44 PM
This has been a great educational experience, thank you Mr. Morrissey and all you great bloggers, got to go.
fourdeucer on July 14, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Notice how AnninCA is failing to acknowledge my repeated observations that her much-loved Kaiser is A PRIVATE HEALTHCARE COMPANY.
LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Kaiser is owned by Kaiser doctors.
Blake on July 14, 2009 at 1:46 PM
It was interesting to read that 25% of emergency care is around diabetes. Clinton introduced a diabetes program that was workable.
My friend’s sister, horribly dysfunctional, kept landing in the emergency room.
FINALLY, the last system she was in implemented that program. She “got” it.
She is now managing her health.
Those are the types of solutions we need.
I guess I’m guilty of hating to see those solutions parcelled out piecemeal.
They work!
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:46 PM
Absolutely not. I’ve taken probably only about 4 in my entire life (40 yrs now), but unlike you, I’m not telling other folks what to do. I’d sooner listen to someone with a medical degree on a case by case basis, than leave it to you and Obaa-aa-maa or a rationing board to tell me what to do. You completely miss the bigger point.
Government isn’t there to solve your problems. What power you hand the government takes away from your freedom. They don’t run anything well, and do not have the right under the Constitution TO run health care or not much else for that matter.
Like someone else suggested, if you feel so badly for others that can’t afford help – even tho it’s out there for them, give your time and money to help them, and stop talking to us about taking OUR money and health. It’s not your place, nor is it government’s.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Kaiser is a non-profit HMO. But, I did answer you. You missed it.
Scroll back.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:47 PM
What DrAnninCA diagnoses as a sniffle may be menigitis. In kids, even a short delay in treatment may be too late.
Blake on July 14, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Oh, but you ignore the fact that she has a medical degree, right, Blake?
/sarc
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Good to hear you’re no a neurotic. But I still disagree. Healthcare is a major economic issue, and our costs are out of control
That is exactly when it’s appropriate for government to step in.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:49 PM
anninca:
I hope you stay in CA (if you are really there). like many others, i am the breaking point about govt. intervention in my life. and the fact that their meddling & f**king up of my life costs me money.
stay in CA
kelley in virginia on July 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM
It would have been more efficient for the government to distribute disease-ridden blankets. That would be for the first time, by the way, for any liberal readers.
Grafted on July 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM
No, someone forwarded me this article — must have missed your earlier comments. Send me the info on the tips e-mail, and thank you!
Ed Morrissey on July 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Um, not according to the Constitution, you nutball.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM
if the govt. stayed out of the way of the hospitals, & doctors, then maybe we would have affordable care.
anninca: do you have any idea of the workers’ comp costs for medical personnel? holy, moly. workers’ comp is mandated bythe govt.
just one example.
kelley in virginia on July 14, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Here’s what’s relevant from a big-picture. If the GOP is dug in on these issues?
Then, no wonder the rolls are shrinking.
You’ll not be able to sustain a party with a closed mind.
Your choice.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:39 PM
No Ann, the problem with the number of Republicans or Conservatives shrinking is that we work. More and more people in this country are freeloading or illegal losers. Those that are wanting a free ride are on the liberal side. Since the average Democrat voter does not work, they want free stuff.
My husband and I pay over $500 dollars a month for all of our insurance/our employer pays a greater portion. We have excellent coverage, we don’t need referalls, and and we always get the necessary tests we need. I do not want my plan taken away for your “free” coverage. My husband and I are not wealthy, but we would rather pay $500/per month and take care of our responsibility to our children than to get on the goverment dole and have our health endangered by rationed care. You people need to leave our system alone.
TXMomof3 on July 14, 2009 at 1:53 PM
The Constitution is there to LIMIT government’s power over the people. Not to provide anything but security and freedom.
You need to just move to a communist or socialist country and leave the rest of us alone. Your pushing, and I mean all of you statists, will lead to nothing but armed conflict.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:53 PM
3 Federal Heath Plans,(Of course not one that congress gets), and 3 failures. How can anyone with even one tenth of a brain want government insurance. How stupid can people be. That argument that you can keep your private plan is a lie by Omama/Pelosi as they’ll legislate them out of business.
Now TAXING my employer paid health benefits??!!
Jeff from WI on July 14, 2009 at 1:53 PM
How’s that working for all you folks in California?
patriette on July 14, 2009 at 1:54 PM
In-freaking-deed.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 1:55 PM
Does that mean that when us whiteys get
healthcare rationingObamaCare, that I can start calling myself a “Native American” too?Spurius Ligustinus on July 14, 2009 at 1:57 PM
I think, bottom-line, for the GOP to regain support, they must take seriously the real problems facing the middle-class.
If they stay locked in the ivory towers of high-income people who are comfortable with their health insurance, then they will not grasp why Palin is popular, why they are losing support by the day, why they are considered to be irrelevant.
The GOP needs to get back to basics.
Are you or aren’t you for real people?
Reagan was. I think Palin might be.
But I think a lot of the opinions here?
Obviously, no.
Quit giving up ground to Democrats over this issue. It’s good for small business, which is the future growth of jobs.
It’s good for people.
Get back to thinking, people, about people.
Otherwise, you’re just going to be going off of fumes of people frustrated with Congress, with Obama, and you’re not going to offer a real alternative.
You’re just the “other” suits.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:58 PM
So easy a caveman could do it.
That is the best way out of this “healthcare crisis.” And if you want to play the odds and are relatively healthy, you can forgo traditional helath ins. and opt for a catastrophic care policy.
davidk on July 14, 2009 at 1:59 PM
Stop telling us what to do, you arrogant pain in the tail.
The GOP can screw itself. Most of us on here aren’t GOP’ers anymore anyway. We don’t need you telling us how to do ANYTHING. Like we’d listen to the “other side” to figure out how to win in a competition.
You really are dense, aren’t you? eek.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 2:00 PM
The constitution?
What do you think this says about healthcare?
Just curious.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Exactly right. That’s why I’m fighting to get the gov’ment out of people’s lives.
davidk on July 14, 2009 at 2:01 PM
It doesn’t say anything about Healthcare. That’s my point.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 2:02 PM
OK, so you’re self-identified fringe people?
(Do you live in the woods and tote a gun?)
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 2:02 PM
This is what I’m talking about: “FDA approval for OTC sale has slowed dramatically; in the past five years, it has reclassified only seven prescription drugs (including the bestselling drugs Claritin and Prilosec). Over a 20 year period, by contrast, European countries approved about four times as many prescription medications for OTC sale as the United States, according to a 2003 report from the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development.”
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba524
Europeans can get many of the drugs we have to get prescriptions for OTC, because our FDA is so much slower. Liberalizing the process by which Rx drugs become OTC, would cut down on unnecessary doctor visits.
NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 2:03 PM
BTW…the Constitution limits Government intrusion in our lives. Its not there to give power to Government to take care of us.
Are you really this dim?
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 2:03 PM
No, Sweetheart. I’m not fringe, and I’m not alone.
tickleddragon on July 14, 2009 at 2:04 PM
This is… and this,… and this…and this.
They are well known for hiring foreign doctors, some hardly speak english. They are FOR profit but not in an open and honest fashion.
batterup on July 14, 2009 at 2:04 PM
I did. You have a problem with that?
davidk on July 14, 2009 at 2:04 PM
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