An American government health-care system you should know

posted at 12:16 pm on July 14, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Over the last few months, as Barack Obama’s plans to transform the health-care industry in America have proceeded, I have written extensively on the two existing government-run health-care systems and their myriad problems: Medicare/Medicaid and the VA.  It seems I missed a third that may be worse than either or perhaps both combined.  Mary Clare Jalonick of the Associated Press provides an eye-opening report on Indian Health Service, a single-payer system that rations care to Native Americans on reservations across the country — and kills them through neglect and a severe lack of resources:

On some reservations, the oft-quoted refrain is “don’t get sick after June,” when the federal dollars run out. It’s a sick joke, and a sad one, because it’s sometimes true, especially on the poorest reservations where residents cannot afford health insurance. Officials say they have about half of what they need to operate, and patients know they must be dying or about to lose a limb to get serious care.

Wealthier tribes can supplement the federal health service budget with their own money. But poorer tribes, often those on the most remote reservations, far away from city hospitals, are stuck with grossly substandard care. The agency itself describes a “rationed health care system.”

The sad fact is an old fact, too.

The U.S. has an obligation, based on a 1787 agreement between tribes and the government, to provide American Indians with free health care on reservations. But that promise has not been kept. About one-third more is spent per capita on health care for felons in federal prison, according to 2005 data from the health service.

Without a doubt, the people on the reservations represent some of the poorest of the poor in America.  Yet we already have a single-payer system in place to provide health care to Native Americans on these reservations.  Do we properly fund it?  Do we make sure that enough resources are applied to ensure good health care?  Not at all.  It is, as the agency itself describes, a system of rationing medical resources, and the end result is a poor population unable to seek out its own care locked into a system that only works when someone is on death’s door.

In fact, as Jalonick reports, it often doesn’t recognize when a patient faces death.  Jalonick profiles the heartrending case of Ta’Shon Rain Little Light, who began complaining of stomach pains at the age of 5, and stopped eating and playing.  The overwhelmed clinic diagnosed her as depressed, and ten subsequent visits to the clinic over the next several months while Ta’Shon’s symptoms worsened didn’t change the diagnosis.  Only when she suffered a collapsed lung did IHS airlift her to Denver, where Ta’Shon was diagnosed with terminal cancer.  Could it have been treated?  We’ll never know, thanks to a diagnostic service that appears to be just above the wild-guess level on the reservation.

When government owns the nation’s health-care system, we can all look forward to the same level of care.  After all, as Obama himself insists, a government-run system will “save costs,” but he never explains how those costs get saved.  We will all go into the rationing-system grinder, just as veterans do with the VA, seniors and disabled do with Medicare, and Native Americans do with IHS.

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Giving anyone anything rapes their will and soul.

TheSitRep on July 14, 2009 at 12:20 PM

We don’t need to compromise – we need to vote it DOWN!

Yet … will the GOP Ayatollah’s do that? Hmmmmmm?

HondaV65 on July 14, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Indian reservations are sad, for many different reasons. This is just one.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:21 PM

If the conditions of the reservations are so bad, why don’t these people move somewhere else where the conditions and opportunities are better? Just asking.

WashJeff on July 14, 2009 at 12:22 PM

If only the Native Americans had a woman who was recently nominated to the SCOTUS, they would be getting all sorts of fawning government attention right about now.

Bishop on July 14, 2009 at 12:22 PM

WashJeff on July 14, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Stockholm syndrome

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:23 PM

This story shows that good intentions are not sufficient to meet a worthly goal. If people really care about health care access to the poor, they must embrace free market solutions because that is the only way to ensure better health care alternatives for everyone, including the poor. For me, the primary problem with health care is that consumers do not set the price for two critical aspects of health care: (1) the cost of insurance; and (2) the cost of medical services. Until this is fixed, nothing will get better.

A good example of how to address this matter is shown by the company Safeway…

RedSoxNation on July 14, 2009 at 12:23 PM

This isn’t a surprise at all.

If you saw what they treated for, you all would be stunned. And what these little clinic turning people who really need it away breaks your heart.

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:23 PM

If Obama’s vision comes to pass, within 20 years we will have no one other than third world immigrant physicians providing care.

Specialists will only be available to the rich.

The Democrats can force ridiculously low incomes on health care providers, but they can’t force people to enter the medical profession, nor can they keep people from leaving.

NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Medicine man shortage?
I thought they all wanted to go the way of the traditional native.

Maybe they should start a wampum for shaman scheme.
I wonder if they have a co-pay for there totems and talismans.

TheSitRep on July 14, 2009 at 12:26 PM

TheSitRep on July 14, 2009 at 12:26 PM

I don’t know, but personally, this Obama “administration” has driven me to drink firewater.

NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

You want your private policy, keep it.

But stop blocking reform.

It’s dispicable.

It earns only the reputation that the GOP hates real people and small businesses.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Native Americans are by far the most ignored segment of society so it is no surprise their health care is so poor.

fourdeucer on July 14, 2009 at 12:28 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Say it with me: I want my binky!

I cannot believe none of these threads penetrate your skull.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:28 PM

This article got me thinking. Can we set up a European Reservation where the the laws of the federal government do not apply? Galt’s Gultch would be the logical first reservation.

WashJeff on July 14, 2009 at 12:29 PM

We will all go into the rationing-system grinder, just as veterans do with the VA, seniors and disabled do with Medicare, and Native Americans do with IHS.

Ed, great job bringing this to everyone’s attention.

The Feds are the worst sort of liars, promising with no real intention to make good, just to get more for themselves.

maverick muse on July 14, 2009 at 12:29 PM

You want your private policy, keep it.

But stop blocking reform.

It’s dispicable.

It earns only the reputation that the GOP hates real people and small businesses.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

spoken like someone on welfare.

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Do NOT worry!! A liberal will never let actual results or facts get in the way of spending other people’s money.

jukin on July 14, 2009 at 12:30 PM

fourdeucer on July 14, 2009 at 12:28 PM

The feds put restraints on what type of businesses they can run, who can provide services and what is done there. And then we are surprised when things go bad. Then, most of them are run by corrupt people who just want to open a casino to line their pockets.

Add this to holding onto some medieval culture and it’s not a recipe for success.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

You‘re despicable. You earn only the reputation that you hate real people and small businesses.

maverick muse on July 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM

It is dispicable that the government cannot or will not fix the healthcare problems that clearly exist in thier current government run programs.

myrenovations on July 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Sorry, I will never agree with most of you on this issue. I think the public is right. We do want reform.

And the president who delivers it?

Forever enshrined as the smart one.

It doesn’t look like it will be Obama, either. He’s too much of a suit.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM

But stop blocking reform.

Calling this “reform” is like calling a mechanic pouring sugar into a gastank, “repair”.

The Democrats have no idea what it is they are doing. Everything they’ve touched turns to crap.

I don’t want Democrats turning our health care system to crap.

NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Giving anyone anything rapes their will and soul.

TheSitRep on July 14, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Exactly.

Give us 8 years of B.O. and this could be written about the entire nation.

I grew up on a Rez, and have seen it all firsthand.

Some of my best friends have had everything given to them on a platter, only to waste it and end up depressed and dead by 35.

cntrlfrk on July 14, 2009 at 12:32 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

I’m a small business owner and I am hurt by the current costs. But, I take our current system over a government run system anyday. I have enough reports to file without the taxation of benefits. I don’t mind making the sacrifices on cost.

Tell me ONE thing government has run effeciently. JUST ONE, PLEASE!

HoustonRight on July 14, 2009 at 12:32 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Who doesn’t want reform? But anything that the government is in control of is going to suck. That’s simple reality.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:33 PM

HoustonRight on July 14, 2009 at 12:32 PM

Just wait till they start applying SS to your small business profits. Wanna see small business go under? That’ll do it.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Frankly, none of you make sense to me. I read the anti-reform posts, and I see mostly just the same mantra over and over.

It’s unconvincing, to say the least.

It is OK. I think the GOP is firmly against the reform. I am Independent, voting wise.

And I take the opinions into clear consideration. I wouldn’t vote in a GOP based on this issue, not until we’ve jumped the hurdle.

I am convinced you’re short-sighted and wrong.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM

I think the public is right.

In that they don’t want this reform?

Look at the latest poll numbers.

Most people don’t want the idiotic bill the Democrat House is pushing and neither will the Senate.

The first “reform” we need is tort reform. Bobby Jindal has an actual working “reform” that is light years ahead of what the boneheads in Congress are pushing.

NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM

I am convinced you’re short-sighted and wrong.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM

I think you are projecting.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Giving anyone anything rapes their will and soul.

TheSitRep on July 14, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Giving to someone someone does not rape their will and soul, for how would anyone ever get help when they don’t have the means of getting it themselves. However, taking from something from someone and giving it to someone else who is able to get it themselves rapes the will and soul of both.

GrammarPolice on July 14, 2009 at 12:35 PM

NoDonkey on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM

AnninCA just wants her binky.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:35 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM

you obviously do not either know anyone on medicare and see what they have to go through.

Or you are on it and don’t understand the difference in crap care to good medical care.

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:35 PM

It earns only the reputation that the GOP hates real people and small businesses.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

You. Are. An. Idiot.

Knucklehead on July 14, 2009 at 12:35 PM

AnninCA represents the worst sort, as if a small business, presuming herself an entrepreneur for milking Statist tits for all the grant money our HIGHER taxes provide with no tax cuts ever in sight.

Nurse Ratchet

maverick muse on July 14, 2009 at 12:35 PM

Tell me ONE thing government has run effeciently. JUST ONE, PLEASE!

DMV. DNA testing databases. Heck, even the criminal databases are really pretty darn good these days compared to the past.

We’ve come a long way.

Change is always tough. Sometimes, it’s necessary. Healthcare is simply eating up too much of people’s personal income.

Time to change. Or least offer a reasonable plan.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Awful story; take rural healthcare and degrade it from there for whole sections of western US. A friend’s wife works in a reservation clinic as a nurse in the Southwest. This article squares with what she has said about the lack of qualified doctors, nurses and techs. She takes a bus to the reservation from her home – a 2.5 trip. There are incentives to get personnel there, but they’re not great. She left her job as a manager of Cloth World to renew her certification to work on the reservation since they had lapsed. Why was she at Cloth World anyway? Because TX didn’t recognized her training and would have required her to repeat a lot of her training, but the feds didn’t care…a professional certification from any state is valid for federal employment in this case.

esperpento on July 14, 2009 at 12:37 PM

DMV.

LOL

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:38 PM

I think that those of you afraid should keep your private plans and tell yourself nightly that they are superior.

(I think you’re kidding yourselves, but whatever.)

This is ONLY about a plan for those who are blocked out of the current system.

And that is a much-needed change.

Those who opt into public option? Hey, let it rip. They will complain about waits, whatever.

But it beats what people are dealing with today.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:38 PM

Healthcare is simply eating up too much of people’s personal income.

Because of government intervention. Government causes costs to skyrocket. How many times must you be told?

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Lorien….my DMV works like a clock.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Frankly, none of you make sense to me. I read the anti-reform posts, and I see mostly just the same mantra over and over.

It’s unconvincing, to say the least.

It is OK. I think the GOP is firmly against the reform. I am Independent, voting wise.

And I take the opinions into clear consideration. I wouldn’t vote in a GOP based on this issue, not until we’ve jumped the hurdle.

I am convinced you’re short-sighted and wrong.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:34 PM

You are sounding independent like getalife sounded independent as she used to fiercely claim. But I agree we need reform re: health care — tort reform. Get the lawyers out of health care and we’ll all pay a lot less.

Christian Conservative on July 14, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Reform can only occur with the individual not the State. Any State “reform” is just looting under a different name and sanction.

Mojave Mark on July 14, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Healthcare is simply eating up too much of people’s personal income.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Raising taxes to pay for public Statist healthcare is not going to eat less of people’s personal income, but MORE as it passes through MORE hands to get to where it’s supposed to be directed, requiring MORE bureaucracy than the insurance industry already has bogged us with.

maverick muse on July 14, 2009 at 12:40 PM

The DMV?

Was I supposed to laugh out loud or am I being insensitive?

Bishop on July 14, 2009 at 12:40 PM

My own healthcare, Kaiser, got huge negative PR for a lot of years.

Today, I’m talking to my friend, always on private insurance, and her husband is having stomach pains. He resisted going to the doctor. Why? The wait in the office just makes him nuts.

They just switched to Kaiser. I said, “He may actually like it better. Kaiser stays on schedule.”

She said (I faint) “I know. I told him that.

People are commonsense.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Anna in CA, you seem to be under the impression that our health care system couldn’t be worse.

I could be.

You could get reform, but the system will be worse. . . and it will cost more jobs and taxes.

It might be bad now, but it could be much worse with ‘reform’.

There are simple ‘reforms’ that could help. One big one that I’m sure you don’t support would be to simply apply the law and deny benefits to illegal aliens. That would reduce costs to small businesses and Americans dramatically.

ThackerAgency on July 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM

my DMV works like a clock.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:39 PM

Well, first off. Your DMV is a state institution, not a federal one. So compare apples to apples, okay?

Secondly, DMV’s suck. They are run in the most retarded way possible. Only government can set you up for a 11 am appointment, which means you might see someone at 2pm. To get your picture taken. There is no incentive to move people through quickly or efficiently.

It is the model of how government doesn’t work.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Tell me ONE thing government has run effeciently. JUST ONE, PLEASE!
DMV.
AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Oh, I just love waiting in line for 3 hours to pick up my license plates or 6 hours to renew my drivers license.

Your slip is showing.

Knucklehead on July 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM

DMV? You do realize that is State.. not Federal.

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:43 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM

DMV? You’re kidding. I have posted my solution on other threads. 1. Tort reform 2. Illegals 3. UNrestriting insurance carriers so we can pool premiums. Nest you’re going to tell me health care is a right. I am still writing checks for my wifes 2005 cancer treatment and I smile every time I do. We’ve made sacrifices but well worth it. MD Anderson saved her life and no she could not have waited.

HoustonRight on July 14, 2009 at 12:43 PM

About one-third more is spent per capita on health care for felons in federal prison, according to 2005 data from the health service.
I don’t know if they even consider the cost of a prison guard having to spend time outside the room of prisoners recieving their health care.

fourdeucer on July 14, 2009 at 12:45 PM

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Sociopathic cretin

LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 12:46 PM

AnninCA,

You’ve just read Ed’s post, which quite powerfully addresses the gross inadequacies in single payer medical systems. Rather than accuse us of hating people because we don’t want to be subject to the same standard of “care”, why don’t you tell us WHY you think a nationwide single-payer system could be any better.

No one here is suggesting that the poor and middle class should not have access to health care. In fact, our complaint is that it will become less accessible than it is already. In other words, we will have a system that mistakes terminal cancer for depression. So please, take the floor if you can address this very basic fact.

patriette on July 14, 2009 at 12:47 PM

I don’t know if they even consider the cost of a prison guard having to spend time outside the room of prisoners recieving their health care.

fourdeucer on July 14, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Heck don’t foget Dental and Eye exams.. with Free Tax Payers money to obtain glasses!

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:48 PM

Time to change. Or least offer a reasonable plan.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:36 PM

Here it is. We are ALL over-insured. My family does not need the amt. of insurance my husband’s company purchases. It costs so much b/c everyone thinks they need prescription drug coverage, a $10 copay, and low deductible. If you are healthy get a good, low-cost premium/month w/catastrophic coverage and negotiated rates for doctor visits. A healthy family of 4 can get it for under $300. If Congress wants to mandate that everyone should at least carry catastrophic care, so be it. Make people purchase their own insurance, not businesses. THis is not rocket science. The govt. does not need to get into the market. Sheesh! Why don’t you get this? There are insurers that comment on here who have repeatedly laid it out better than me. They know what they are talking about. No public option is needed!

JAM on July 14, 2009 at 12:48 PM

DNA testing databases.

You have obviously never waited for results from the State crime lab before.

patriette on July 14, 2009 at 12:49 PM

Ny
DMV is pretty badass
normally I’m hard on government
but the DMV where I go is efficient

blatantblue on July 14, 2009 at 12:50 PM

AnninCA: DMV as an example of what the government does right??? Not any DMV I know; if that’s the level of service to expect from ObamaCare, you can keep it.

I am an strong advocate of healthcare reform; I have a son who has a serious 1-in-40,000 condition that we’ve seen a score of doctors and accumulated 51 pounds of MRI film for. The problem is; additional government involvement will (and always has) block true reform, worsen care and drive up all the costs due to massive increases in non-clinical overhead. More money for paperwork, less for care.

michaelo on July 14, 2009 at 12:50 PM

“The problem is they don’t have enough money. Just funnel more money to the system and the system will work how it is supposed to.”

Argument heard 10 years from now after we have lived with this nightmare of a program that will provide inadequate services. Isn’t that the argument used today on the problem with the education system? the solution will always be “more money”.
RR

ramrants on July 14, 2009 at 12:51 PM

I had a dentist who went to the correctional facilities to “fix” and mold the inmates mouths for dentures…. on the Tax dime.

After I found out about it, I left that dentist, as he said he felt sorry for the inmates. BS, they went in for a reason… most of the inmates mouths he “fixed” were methheads.

As, I was at the time, struggling to pay out of pocket for a root canal and a crown… these guys were getting more!

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:51 PM

You want your private policy, keep it.

But stop blocking reform.

It’s dispicable.

It earns only the reputation that the GOP hates real people and small businesses.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Do you really believe this, or are you just stirring up the pot?

davidk on July 14, 2009 at 12:51 PM

good luck to your son michaelo. I’ll remember him in my prayers.

ThackerAgency on July 14, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Here it is. We are ALL over-insured. My family does not need the amt. of insurance my husband’s company purchases. It costs so much b/c everyone thinks they need prescription drug coverage, a $10 copay, and low deductible. If you are healthy get a good, low-cost premium/month w/catastrophic coverage and negotiated rates for doctor visits. A healthy family of 4 can get it for under $300. If Congress wants to mandate that everyone should at least carry catastrophic care, so be it. Make people purchase their own insurance, not businesses. THis is not rocket science. The govt. does not need to get into the market. Sheesh! Why don’t you get this? There are insurers that comment on here who have repeatedly laid it out better than me. They know what they are talking about. No public option is needed!

JAM on July 14, 2009 at 12:48 PM

+100.

patriette on July 14, 2009 at 12:52 PM

AnninCA:
You already got your free baby paid for by all of us. Now shut the f*** up.
You will always take for society more than you give. That is why ilk like you want more. You do not have to sacrifice one bit for it. You are pathetic.

oceansidecon on July 14, 2009 at 12:52 PM

There is one former Congressman who has championed issues for Native Americans, in a surprising part of the country–Rob Simmons, three-term former Republican Congressman from eastern Connecticut, where there are still reservations for the Mohegan and Pequot tribes.

These tribes have a fairly strong influence over the economy of eastern Connecticut due to their ownership of the Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods casinos. Simmons is now the leading challenger for disgraced Senator Chris Dodd’s Senate seat.

Ed, if you are interested in Native American issues, you may want to look into what Rob Simmons has done for them.

Steve Z on July 14, 2009 at 12:53 PM

I have a son who has a serious 1-in-40,000 condition

How is “healthcare reform” going to help people with a 1 in 40,000 odds condition?

What kind of “reform” do you suggest?

davidk on July 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM

JAM on July 14, 2009 at 12:48 PM

I admit, I probably pay a crap load over. But when you have to pay out of pocket over 100 dollars on a certain type of medication… and that is ON a copay of 20% your end.

Who is the problem? The Doctors who give you the prescrition? Or the drug companies who over inflate the cost of the drug?

It can go both ways.

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM

ThackerAgency on July 14, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Ditto that!!

HoustonRight on July 14, 2009 at 12:55 PM

O/T There is a tribe of Kalispel Indians in Washington that make the finest rifle & pistol cases. Heavy guage aluminum cases.

fourdeucer on July 14, 2009 at 12:56 PM

Ed says any reform will lead to the kind of poor health care run by the federal government Native Americans.

Ed says that federal care is crap. How about he stand alone health care plan that is federally administered for members of Congress? Is that plan crap? It sounds pretty good and it seems reasonable.

http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/bg1123.cfm

This article from the a well known right wing site seems to suggest that certain federal health care plans are good.

It would be nice if Ed fostered a real debate rather than pulling out scare stories about he Canadian system or the NHS to try and paint any kind of state administered care as being a fate worse than death.

lexhamfox on July 14, 2009 at 12:56 PM

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM

I agree. All I’m saying is that healthy people, who do not require a lot of doctor visits, do not need as much coverage as people who do. I wish that my hubby’s employer did not get the premium plan for us. I’d prefer the cash. I would prefer to pay out of pocket for most of it, b/c we are healthy. People who need more, should obviously get more. That’s why I truly wish that it was not tied to employement. I really think people would get the healthcare they need, if purchased individually.

JAM on July 14, 2009 at 12:58 PM

happily will I attest to the absolute horror of IHS. in fact IHS used to STERILIZE women without their consent, recently..
when I administered a plan here in Phoenix that often had coordinated coverage with some employees who were covered under IHS I got a look at some of the records, True Horror scene…I expect it is exactly what the health care would look like for all of us under TOTUS plan, particularly know that I have read his science and Green czars’ maniacal plans….

ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Let’s see….tossing out examples of supposedly smoothly-running DMVs as a basis for believing in the competence of gubmint to run a healthcare system….how smart is that?

NOT SMART. And not just because it is trivial to cite counter-examples of poorly-running DMVs.

The DMV, albeit a state-based institution, is responsible for doing ONE well-defined job for EVERYONE.

A healthcare system has to treat EVERY INDIVIDUAL in a SPECIFIC and VARIABLE manner. The barrel-scraping blobs of reject DNA manning the booths at your DMV would shrivel and die under such demands.

Healthcare is an industry many orders of magnitude more complex than dealing with drivers’ issues.

LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:00 PM

/now

ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:00 PM

This is how one destroys a culture with welfare. It worked on the indian reservations and it continues to work yet today, in the urban minority population centers.

First, destroy the family unit, then replace the culture with dependency on government cheese.

bloviator on July 14, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Or the drug companies who over inflate the cost of the drug?

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM

The drugs are the property of those companies. They can charge whatever they wish. You have no right to them.

LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:01 PM

Your slip is showing.

Well, those pointing out I picked a state institution are right.

But we solved the DMV problem easily in our state. We can make appointments.

Simple.

Pass it onto your own state legislators.

OK, I think Medicare works well. I like the way it allows individualization for some extra bucks. The Bush “pill” plan is a disaster, but that can be fixed.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM

I brought this up months ago after hearing a native american call a radio show and complain that this is what national healthcare is really like.

As to the little girl — that’s pure malpractise.

And if you get a diagnosis you are not satisfied with after waiting months and months to see a doctor, where do you go for a second opinion???? Has anyone addressed that problem?

Blake on July 14, 2009 at 1:03 PM

lexhamfox on July 14, 2009 at 12:56 PM

You don’t really believe that “we the people” are going to receive the same healthcare that the members of Congress are now getting?

Proof positive that KoolAid causes brain damage. Please move to the back of the line with AnninCa or get better talking points from your boss.

Knucklehead on July 14, 2009 at 1:03 PM

what exactly is a kaysier plan?

SHARPTOOTH on July 14, 2009 at 1:03 PM

I have worked in health insurance for 20+ years and my solution is simple, mirrors Bennet-Wyden which is a good workable plan and best will allow the practice of medicine to continue here as it always has….of course I am not a two bit pol so no one will listen to it.. Maybe Sarah will campaign for me and I can run as one of the only surviving moderate DEMS in America….I know there are millions of us who do not get counted, if they will come to Phoenix and vote for me I will implement our healthcare reform and we can get back to the business of doing business in Arizona and America, insert Souza song here

ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:03 PM

lexhamfox on July 14, 2009 at 12:56 PM

You should read the story you link to. And realize the goal of each plan is different. But, I’m sure you knew that.

Congressmen also get the ability to put some of their money into private retirement accounts, in lieu of sending that money into social security. Something that they will not let us normal people do.

Fancy that.

lorien1973 on July 14, 2009 at 1:04 PM

The high price of drugs pays for the research and development of newer and better drugs.

Blake on July 14, 2009 at 1:04 PM

I wrote about this type of situation happening in a single payer system for our site’s newsletter. I entitled the piece “Death and Taxes – Obama’s Healthcare Reform”. When Obama talks about cutting costs, it’s through denying treatment because people are too sick or too old to warrant it. You should read some of Ezekial Emanuel and his friends’ papers. It’s right out of a horror movie.

http://www.teapartynation.com

tnmama on July 14, 2009 at 1:04 PM

AnninCA:
You already got your free baby paid for by all of us. Now shut the f*** up.
You will always take for society more than you give. That is why ilk like you want more. You do not have to sacrifice one bit for it. You are pathetic.

My baby care was the best in the country and, indeed, free.

Paid for by Stran Steele. :)

Union….now outta business, probably due to the benefits package that I so enjoyed.

It was incredible. Top-notch, best the country had to offer.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Kaiser Permamente is a behemoth of a monopoly in CA that routinely is sued for denying treatment…

ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:04 PM

You want your private policy, keep it.

But stop blocking reform.

It’s dispicable despicable.

It earns only the reputation that the GOP hates real people and small businesses.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM

With Obama’s public option, employers will opt out, so many employees won’t continue to be provided with employer-provided coverage. Please try to see more than one move ahead in the chess game.

Who’s blocking reform? McCain had a great idea: remove the income tax exclusion but offset it with a generous income tax credit. Decouple health insurance coverage from employment; it’s an anachronism that grew out of World War II wage freezes. Put responsiblity for purchasing coverage in the hands of individuals. With an individual policies the norm, portability will be substantially improved.

Speaking of reform, Obama won’t go near tort reform, so don’t talk about “blocking reform.”

How does any of this reflect a hatred of small business? I have no idea where you came up with that accusation.

Beyond that, who are these “real people” that the GOP hates? Do you mean the supposed 47 million uninsured? If so, let’s first agree to the facts about the number before we begin to try to reform anything.

From what I’ve read (and I’ll be happy to hear a different figure), 25% of that number consists of illegal aliens. Stopping there, I would argue that we should not insure these people. Still, I agree that any decision to cover or not to cover members of this group deserves a debate on that specific issue. The fact that at a townhall meeting Obama hugs an Obama campaign volunteer who has cancer and no health insurance is not a persuasive argument for providing insurace coverage to 11-12 million illegal immigrants.

Then, as I understand it, another 25% of that number consists of people who could afford coverage, but for whatever reason don’t purchase coverage. I don’t feel the need to underwrite coverage for these people. They’ve made their choice. If it’s a question of requiring these people to obtain some amout of catastrophic coverage, I might be amenable to that. But I want to hear a debate about that issue. I see points for requiring and against requiring mandatory coverage. I want to hear more about this issue.

Then, as I understand it, 25% of this number consists of people who already qualify for coverage under an existing program–Medicaid, S-Chip, and the like. For what it’s worth, a doctor friend of mine works in a low-income medical clinic, and he recently told me that his clinic comes across this problem all the time. Many of his clinic’s patients simply haven’t enrolled in programs available to them. I realize that’s the experience of only one doctor, but I think it’s worthwhile to push an effort to enroll those eligible for existing programs before trying to fix part of a problem that may not exist.

That leaves about 25% of the number for whom, it appears, we don’t have a solution. Having narrowed the issue, let’s address the problems of this group.

In the end, however, I don’t see Obamacare undertaking any effort for genuine reform.

BuckeyeSam on July 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM

admit, I probably pay a crap load over. But when you have to pay out of pocket over 100 dollars on a certain type of medication… and that is ON a copay of 20% your end.

Who is the problem? The Doctors who give you the prescrition? Or the drug companies who over inflate the cost of the drug?

It can go both ways.

upinak on July 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM

The cost is artificially inflated because most people have health insurance. Why do you think hospitals charge $25 for a bandaid or $150 for asprin? If you eliminate insurance for run of the mill check ups, the market will find the affordable cost of care. Especially once all the ridiculous paperwork is replaced with up front cash. It wasn’t until companies started offering full medical coverage during wage freezes after WWII that people stopped paying for their own non-catastrophic treatment and costs skyrocketed.

patriette on July 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM

You don’t really believe that “we the people” are going to receive the same healthcare that the members of Congress are now getting?

No, but if the economy continues to sink?

I think their benefits package should be downgraded, for sure.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM

Kaiser also is lobbying like nobodys business to get the business of insuring all the illegals in CA for care in their “clinics”, see the Crowder film for an idea of how great it is to sit in a free clinic

ginaswo on July 14, 2009 at 1:06 PM

lexhamfox on July 14, 2009 at 12:56 PM

I like it. Too bad I don’t believe that they could ever manage it on a national level. So why are they still talking about a public option? It seems to me that the federal govt. employee plan is run by private insurance carriers and people pick their plan yearly. Why have the feds involved at all? Get rid of employee insurance. Everyone buys their own and gets a tax credit for doing so.

JAM on July 14, 2009 at 1:07 PM

How does any of this reflect a hatred of small business? I have no idea where you came up with that accusation.

One of the current plans, which is bi-partisan, will penalize small businesses if they don’t offer insurance.

That’s insane. They will simply shut the doors.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:07 PM

what exactly is a kaysier plan?

SHARPTOOTH on July 14, 2009 at 1:03 PM

It is a private insurance company (PRIVATE) that has successfully lobbied many States to get its hands on tax-payer dollars to pay for top-shelf healthcare for gubmint employee parasites.

https://www.kaiserpermanente.org/

LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:07 PM

Anyone who gives up Medical Liberty for Medical Security deserves NEITHER.

Skywise on July 14, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Well the Seminole Tribe of Florida owns all of the Hard Rock restaurants Nationwide and operates casinos on its Florida reservations and makes gagillions of dollars a year.

The Indians need a community organizer. I nominate Bollocks Obama and his big ass wife, Michewe.

Key West Reader on July 14, 2009 at 1:08 PM

Kaiser also is lobbying like nobodys business to get the business of insuring all the illegals in CA for care in their “clinics”, see the Crowder film for an idea of how great it is to sit in a free clinic

I don’t doubt the lobbying for immigrants. That makes sense.

I will tell you that Kaiser is far more efficient than any private doctor plan I’ve ever been with about appointments.

They keep a schedule.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:09 PM

Union….now outta business, probably due to the benefits package that I so enjoyed.

It was incredible. Top-notch, best the country had to offer.

AnninCA on July 14, 2009 at 1:04 PM

This simple-minded fsckwit doesn’t even realize she just destroyed her own argument.

LimeyGeek on July 14, 2009 at 1:09 PM

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