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A Liberal Lecture on Economics (and Why It Won’t Work)

posted at 2:00 pm on July 12, 2009 by The Other McCain
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The editors of The Washington Post demand to know why a second economic “stimulus” is needed. Dean Baker of the liberal Center for Economic and Policy Research hinges his reply on this analysis:

The collapse of the housing bubble led to a reduction in annual rates of construction of about $450 billion. The bubble in the non-residential sector is also in the process of collapsing, cutting annual demand by approximately $200 billion. The loss of $8 trillion in housing bubble wealth, coupled with a loss of roughly the same amount of stock wealth, is leading to a reduction in annual consumption of approximately $700 billion.
The total loss in demand is around $1,350 billion. The annual stimulus in the bill approved in February was around $300 billion. $300 billion in stimulus is not nearly enough to fill a $1,350 billion shortfall in demand.

Only a Keynesian could waltz past a tremendous fact like the loss of $16 trillion in asset value — Baker’s estimate of the combined losses in real estate and stock markets — to obsess about the “shortfall in demand,” which is the exclusive focus of his argument for a second “stimulus.”

CAPITAL SUPPLY, CONSUMER DEMAND AND ‘STIMULUS’
The fundamental problem of the U.S. economy is a capital shortage, and you can’t make capitalism work without capital. We have a supply-side crisis to which liberals are proposing only demand-side solutions.

I keep repeating, “It Won’t Work,” and here’s why: The government can print money or borrow money or raise taxes to increase government spending in the name of pump-priming “stimulus” — that is to say, demand-side intervention intended to boost consumer spending. (Whether or not the $789 trillion “stimulus” bill passed in February effectively achieves this intent is another question.)

However, any of these three methods of funding Keynesian intervention has negative economic consequences that hinder recovery. Obviously, raising taxes reduces the amount of money that citizens have available for spending or investment. Printing money — i.e., inflation — has ruinous effects on consumers and investors. And if the government borrows money (which has been approach used to fund the “stimulus” so far), it thereby siphons away capital that might otherwise be available to private-sector investment.

This third point — the negative economic consequences of deficit spending — is where the hypocrisy of Democrats is so apparent. All during the Bush years, Democrats harped about deficits, but now that they’re in charge, their pretenses to fiscal conservatism have evaporated. It’s sad, because the fiscal and monetary policies of the Bush years (especially the inflationary policies of the Fed) deserve serious criticism, not the kind of political opportunism that Democrats practice.

TOWARD AN AMERICAN ‘LOST DECADE’
As Reason magazine recently reported, the Obama administration’s “stimulus” approach is almost an exact duplicate of the policies that led to Japan’s “Lost Decade”:

The Japanese government’s easing of credit rates, instead of spurring real demand, created artificial demand. Federal loans and stimulus spending were not economically productive, and they vastly increased the nation’s debt and prolonged the economic malaise. Worse, businesses spent critical time on the sidelines, waiting for government bailouts and other centralized actions, instead of speedily consolidating their losses, clearing their balance sheets of bad investments, and reorganizing.

So Baker’s spat with the Washington Post over the need for a second “stimulus” is a pathetic sideshow. The first “stimulus” is, in fact, damaging the prospects for recovery and the debate over a second dose of the same poison is basically about whether we should commit economic suicide faster.

Liberalism’s implacable hostility to market economics — their attacks on investment and profit, in service of their politically motivated demonization of “the rich” — is one of those ideas that has consequences. Everyone with a 401(k) account has suffered directly from the collapse of the stock market. Measures that prevent recovery will only prolong the misery, and one investment manager summed up the current situation Friday:

“Nobody’s investing because there’s no reason to invest,” said Dawn Bennett, CEO of Bennett Financial Group.

Exactly. If companies can’t make profits, what’s the point in buying stock? But the government is now controlled by liberals who want us to believe that corporate profits are evil, and so the prospects for investment are bleak. “Investment” is just another word for “capital,” and you can’t make capitalism work without capital. As Michelle Malkin said in September 2008, The Fundamentals Suck.

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Comment pages: 1 2

Capitalism is based on hard working people making money and spending it on what they want.

Socialism is based on non working people being given money and spending it on what they want.

The problem is if people dont have to work to get money then there is no incentive for anyone to work to simply give money to the government in taxes to give to non workers.

If you undercut the workers of a country to fund the non workes you are killing your own economy.

William Amos on July 12, 2009 at 2:06 PM

The black(am I allowed to say that) market will be booming. Stock up now while you can. Folks are going to need all kinds of dos-and-dahs.

Limerick on July 12, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Resurgence in popularity of books by Rand and Hayek.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20090712_A_growing_disconnect_.html

a capella on July 12, 2009 at 2:07 PM

Don’t worry, Obammy is working on juicing up those “profits to earnings” ratios.

guntotinglibertarian on July 12, 2009 at 2:10 PM

If you undercut the workers of a country to fund the non workes you are killing your own economy.

William Amos on July 12, 2009 at 2:06 PM

“Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They run out of other people’s money.”

Margaret Thatcher

guntotinglibertarian on July 12, 2009 at 2:14 PM

Socialism is nothing more than subsidization of poverty.

William Amos on July 12, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Socialism is nothing more than subsidization of poverty.

And poor nations have teeny-weeny carbon footprints.

guntotinglibertarian on July 12, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Why, oh, why, does the Obama Justice Dept. insist on bringing up Bush’s “war crimes” every time his poll numbers start dropping? This is one bunch of sick losers!!!!!

mobydutch on July 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM

Citizens will have even less money when next month credit card companies (Chase, etc.) start demanding 6% in minimum payments instead of the current 2%.

We can thank Obama for his meddling in this too.

moonsbreath on July 12, 2009 at 2:26 PM

We can thank Obama for his meddling in this too.

moonsbreath on July 12, 2009 at 2:26 PM

By the way, that credit card bill would have never gotten out of committee when Joe Biden was in the Senate. Delaware is home to his son’s employer – Capital One. Biden’s biggest contributors were the credit card companies, heaadquartered in Wilmington.

guntotinglibertarian on July 12, 2009 at 2:31 PM

Obviously, raising taxes reduces the amount of money that citizens have available for spending or investment.

Trick statement. Especially if you “demark” an income level.

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM

[quote]The black(am I allowed to say that) market will be booming. Stock up now while you can. Folks are going to need all kinds of dos-and-dahs.[/quote]

Heh, we’ve been stocking up on an emergency food supply over the last six months but lately I’ve been adding more “barterable” items. Soap, toothpaste, toilet paper, aspirin, ammunition, etc.

I know it’s veering into tinfoil hat territory, but I figured at least some of my dollars should go into buying real goods. You know, before I start burning them for warmth.

TheMightyMonarch on July 12, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Why, oh, why, does the Obama Justice Dept. insist on bringing up Bush’s “war crimes”

Anything that will protect Abdulla bin Carbomb from being locked in a box with caterpillars is okey-dokey with me.

It’s all about restoring our image in the world, ya know.

guntotinglibertarian on July 12, 2009 at 2:33 PM

6% in minimum payments instead of the current 2%.

We can thank Obama for his meddling in this too.

moonsbreath on July 12, 2009 at 2:26 PM

How is this a bad thing? I don’t like meddling at any level in any business, but if people have less opportunity to ruin their credit – what’s wrong with that?

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM

Liberalism’s implacable hostility to market economics — their attacks on investment and profit, in service of their politically motivated demonization of “the rich” — is one of those ideas that has consequences.

The basic problem which flows through all of liberalism is a deep-seated belief in the ultimate perfectibility of human society through the actions and decisions of a benevolent (but necessarily powerful) elite. Free markets clash with this ideal since they rely not on the decisions of a few wise men but on the chaotic decisions of a collection of individuals.

Obama believes his economic plans will work because Obama believes deeply in himself. That similar plans have failed in the past, says nothing to Obama. Those plans failed because government wasn’t smart enough, the leaders weren’t wise enough, the plans weren’t clever enough. When you believe that you can rationally control a multi-trillion dollar economy, the only remaining problem is to ensure that the right people are the ones in charge.

As Clinton once scoffed:

“We could give [tax cuts] to you and hope you spend it right… But … if you don’t spend it right, here’s what’s going to happen. In 2013 — that’s just 14 years away — taxes people pay on their payroll for Social Security will no longer cover the monthly checks… I want every parent here to look at the young people here, and ask yourself, ‘Do you really want to run the risk of squandering this surplus?’”

In other words, we [liberals] don’t trust that you rubes know how to handle your money and we can handle it for you so much better.

This a very old argument. It’s taken many forms throughout history as a select group of people decide that they only are wise enough because of their birth, heritage, religious views, etc. to run society for the betterment of all.

That’s why liberals hate Sarah Palin so much. They believe she is incapable of ruling her fellow citizens. That Palin has no desire to rule her fellow citizens is a thought that never crosses their minds.

PackerBronco on July 12, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Socialism is nothing more than subsidization of poverty.

William Amos on July 12, 2009 at 2:16 PM

Within each socialist beats the heart of a thief.

PackerBronco on July 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM

In other words, we [liberals] don’t trust that you rubes know how to handle your money and we can handle it for you so much better

You know, that’s probably true. I do own more guns and ammo than one man should be allowed.

guntotinglibertarian on July 12, 2009 at 2:41 PM

At this point I think it’s all about the Dems and friends throwing as much cash on the floor as possible. They know that they are not helping… anyone other that those they allow to pick up the cash. Imagine how much can be stolen if there is too much laying around to keep track of.
-
So, I’m not buying any of the reasons to spend more. They are all just smiling and lying thieves to me now.
-

RalphyBoy on July 12, 2009 at 2:46 PM

How is this a bad thing? I don’t like meddling at any level in any business, but if people have less opportunity to ruin their credit – what’s wrong with that?

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 2:36 PM

I have a credit card with Chase at 0% for the life of the balance transfer. I have upheld my part of the agreement in never being late. I also pay more each month. Now Chase is switching the agreement in increasing my minimum payment or I could agree to a higher interest rate. This isn’t what I agreed to. Imagine if the company which has your mortgage decides you need to pay it off quicker and decides to increase your monthly payment. Would you be fine with that? Somehow I don’t think you would. No other company gets away with this except credit card companies.

Also, a lot of small businesses will be further hurt by this.

moonsbreath on July 12, 2009 at 2:56 PM

These liberal morons doesn’t know the difference between a credit and inventory recession. We are in a credit recession and the main cause of it is debt. Let me stress DEBT. If the US is to recover we must get rid of the DEBT not add to it.

If you guys don’t know what the difference between credit and inventory recession. Read this:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1175-To-Dennis-Kneale-Youre-An-Idiot.html

jdun on July 12, 2009 at 2:58 PM

How is this a bad thing? I don’t like meddling at any level in any business, but if people have less opportunity to ruin their credit – what’s wrong with that?

Plenty, if you’re unemployed, carrying a $10,000 balance, and your minimum payment just went from $200 to $600. Although if I were in that situation I’d just stop paying. Unsecured debt…they really can’t do anything, especially if you’re not working.

The credit card companies are screwed and they know it. They can’t cut off the spigot and risk cash flow going down to nothing, and they can’t increase interest rates or minimum payments without forcing people into default. All they’re doing right now is attempting to weather the storm and try to capture as many “good” borrowers as possible.

Problem is our government is doing everything it can to keep the storm going as long as possible.

TheMightyMonarch on July 12, 2009 at 2:58 PM

Debt is the driving force in this recession. It is not excess inventories.

jdun on July 12, 2009 at 3:00 PM

I still don’t understand why huge, HUGE government budget deficits, the associated borrowing, printing, and eventually promised draconian tax increases along with voiding 250 years of contract law won’t immediately pull the economy out of the worst recession since 1979.

Can someone from the left-wing extremist view explain this?

jukin on July 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM

I consider myself “liberal.”

But I don’t consider myself a proponent of stimulus packages.

I think that just is nonsense.

AnninCA on July 12, 2009 at 3:04 PM

If you guys don’t know what the difference between credit and inventory recession. Read this:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1175-To-Dennis-Kneale-Youre-An-Idiot.html

Warning, reading the Ticker Guy may result in bleeding from the eyes, uncontrollable rage, hopelessness in our leadership, and explosive diarrhea. I think he has a similar disclaimer on his weekly radio show.

Although it is good reading if you’re into real finance education along with some gallows humor. I highly recommend it.

TheMightyMonarch on July 12, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Liberals/communists are not about fixing any problem. That much is clear by looking at the results of their initiatives.

What liberals/communists are all about is C-O-N-T-R-O-L. Use that filter and every move they make becomes crystal clear.

jukin on July 12, 2009 at 3:06 PM

Keynesian economic never work because it goes against human nature

jdun on July 12, 2009 at 3:07 PM

I have a credit card with Chase at 0% for the life of the balance transfer. I have upheld my part of the agreement in never being late. I also pay more each month. Now Chase is switching the agreement in increasing my minimum payment or I could agree to a higher interest rate. This isn’t what I agreed to. Imagine if the company which has your mortgage decides you need to pay it off quicker and decides to increase your monthly payment. Would you be fine with that? Somehow I don’t think you would. No other company gets away with this except credit card companies.

That is why nobody respects their banks any longer. I say, “with good reason.”

They had collateral, in the form of being respected.

They have completely blown that.

They are no longer one whit different from buying your frozen foods from Costco versus you local grocer.

They can take a number, frankly.

AnninCA on July 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM

I have a credit card with Chase at 0% for the life of the balance transfer.

Now Chase is switching the agreement in increasing my minimum payment or I could agree to a higher interest rate. This isn’t what I agreed to.

moonsbreath on July 12, 2009 at 2:56 PM

I have one with Chase as well. I had one with WaMu that was sold to Chase – now I have two Chase cards, same credit limits, but lost all the extra benefits from the WaMu card.

I guess my thinking is because I don’t go for loans from CC companies because force majeure is in their pocket – not mine – I have their card in my pocket.

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:14 PM

The credit card companies are screwed and they know it.

TheMightyMonarch on July 12, 2009 at 2:58 PM

If they croak, it will make obtaining small credit a thing of the past and we’ll need to carry more cash. Do I need to carry the ramifications of carrying more cash further?

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Can someone from the left-wing extremist view explain this?

jukin on July 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM

EASY. It’s Bush’s fault. Did you know waterboarding is torture???

allahallahoxenfree on July 12, 2009 at 3:19 PM

They had collateral, in the form of being respected.

They have completely blown that.

They are no longer one whit different from buying your frozen foods from Costco versus you local grocer.

They can take a number, frankly.

AnninCA on July 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM

Anybody gonna field these?

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:19 PM

Oh, and this is funny. Not haha funny but Fargo funny like I’m going to run some evidence through a woodchipper funny.
Disappeared completely. How many websites do that?

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103531

allahallahoxenfree on July 12, 2009 at 3:25 PM

Anybody gonna field these?

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:19 PM

I would, but it is pretty damn hard to hit a ball you can’t see.

Limerick on July 12, 2009 at 3:26 PM

I consider myself “liberal.”

AnninCA on July 12, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Who would’a thunk it?

Johan Klaus on July 12, 2009 at 3:28 PM

Warning, reading the Ticker Guy may result in bleeding from the eyes, uncontrollable rage, hopelessness in our leadership, and explosive diarrhea. I think he has a similar disclaimer on his weekly radio show.

Although it is good reading if you’re into real finance education along with some gallows humor. I highly recommend it.

TheMightyMonarch on July 12, 2009 at 3:06 PM

I like Karl, he tell it how he see it.

It was clear from the onset of the recession that it is a credit recession. Yet you have morons from CNBC, Ph.d, nobel prize winners, etc that actually think it is an inventory recession. To this day they still think it is.

These morons keep recommending more debt which compounded the problem. In a credit recession you don’t add debt to dig your way out of the recession. You have to get rid of debt. You have to allow individuals, banks, companies, governments, etc to default.

jdun on July 12, 2009 at 3:28 PM

http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332121062189506

This might add to this discussion

allahallahoxenfree on July 12, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Limerick on July 12, 2009 at 3:26 PM

I can’t help but imagine that she has herself a really good laugh after thinking that stuff up and then a side-splitting guffaw after seeing it published.

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:40 PM

thanks for the above link. though i’d read this before in many different contexts, its always good for those of us non-economists to review who & why.

doesn’t sound like BOOOOOSH’s fault, does it?

and obviously, borrowing further only exacerbates the problem. any moron could see that.

kelley in virginia on July 12, 2009 at 3:40 PM

If they croak, it will make obtaining small credit a thing of the past and we’ll need to carry more cash. Do I need to carry the ramifications of carrying more cash further?

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Cash is king in this economy with these Anti-American morons in charge.

If you don’t have a concealed carry permit now would be an excellent time to get one (while you still can).

dhunter on July 12, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Its really kind of intersting to hear economists talk, because so much of what they say defys the logic the rest of the world runs on.

The “economy” is a closed loop system. It takes raw materials, adds value to them by making them into products, which are then consumed by people.

Everything else in economics is HOW we transform those raw materials into goods, and how we get those goods to where they will be consumed.

We have many many “frictions” or losses in this system. Transportation for example is a LOSS to the system as it takes energy to move raw materials around. Its a necesary Loss, or cost, to the system, but my minimizing the cost of transportation, you make your good cheaper.

Workers… same thing… a needed Cost to making goods. Healthcare? needed for your workers health, but still a drag to the system.

Banking? a needed entity to move cash around, but the support of the banking industry itself hinders capital being available to create goods. So, another friction.

Government is also a Friction, as it causes delay, and takes wealth from the system… creating limited goods with that capital…

Whats interesting is that Keynsians argue that by increasing government spending (adding more loss to the system) you can somehow create more wealth (ie goods)?

And that by measuring the banking system flow (GDP) you are somehow measuring the WEALTH (goods) created and consumed by people.

When you are counting the wrong metric to decide success, you come to bad conslusions and erroneous theories…

Its like if you were playing football, but only cared about how many yards your team gained… but did not pay attention to the scoreboard.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Its really kind of intersting to hear economists talk, because so much of what they say defys the logic the rest of the world runs on.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 3:41 PM

I think Truman coined the phrase “let me hear from a one-handed economist…”

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM

TOWARD AN AMERICAN ‘LOST DECADE’

Lost decade? We should be so lucky. After Obama “remakes” America, it’s going to be a lost generation or worse.

petefrt on July 12, 2009 at 3:48 PM

If you don’t have a concealed carry permit now would be an excellent time to get one (while you still can).

dhunter on July 12, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Those applications are through the roof in my area, since about November of last year i believe….

allahallahoxenfree on July 12, 2009 at 3:49 PM

Government is also a Friction, as it causes delay, and takes wealth from the system… creating limited goods with that capital…
Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Government is not always a friction. In any free market economy you need a system of laws to ensure compliance with contracts. You need a system of defense to protect property. etc.

That one caveat aside, your point about stimulus spending being a drag is spot on.

PackerBronco on July 12, 2009 at 3:58 PM

I think Truman coined the phrase “let me hear from a one-handed economist…”

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM

Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out how the Government is going to borrow its way out of debt… would make my life a whole lot simpler.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out how the Government is going to borrow its way out of debt… would make my life a whole lot simpler.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 3:59 PM

It’s like trying to juggle flaming kittens as a birthday party clown. Its dangerous, it stinks and it horrifies the children.

allahallahoxenfree on July 12, 2009 at 4:02 PM

Liberalism is based on a watering down of the teachings of Karl Marx. I think they’re more corporatist than their european cousins, the democratic socialists.

Libertarian Joseph on July 12, 2009 at 4:05 PM

Flaming kittens? I can’t get that mental picture out of my head.

When LIBS lose their jobs and there’s nobody left to loot from THEN maybe a few of them will get it.

It comes down to: Who’s best to spend a trillion. You, or some government hired looter?

Mojave Mark on July 12, 2009 at 4:10 PM

If the government will never allow me to fail due to my own decisions…then I’m going to the track and betting the long-shots hard.

jukin on July 12, 2009 at 4:11 PM

Government is not always a friction. In any free market economy you need a system of laws to ensure compliance with contracts. You need a system of defense to protect property. etc.

That one caveat aside, your point about stimulus spending being a drag is spot on.

PackerBronco on July 12, 2009 at 3:58 PM

Actualy… IMO… Government is always a friction, a needed friction, but a friction none the less because it creates no goods itself. The more we have to spend on the structure to enforce law, the more those resources are not used to create wealth (goods).

Its like the transportation system. A road does NOT create goods, but is needed TO create goods (transport materials), and to move them to where they will be consumed.. Its a necessary friction… a needed cost built into the overall system. I see Government in much the same way.

Key point however… is how by increasing friction (loss) to a system, can you suddenly increase its output?

Because in engineering, we understand that one way to have more output, is to DECREASE friction…

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 4:14 PM

Economic solution: let assets fall to their market (real) value.

Political solution: prop assets up with cheap (inflationary) dollars.

This is the road to serfdom, to tyranny, to hell

PattyJ on July 12, 2009 at 4:31 PM

Actualy… IMO… Government is always a friction, a needed friction, but a friction none the less because it creates no goods itself. . . .

Key point however… is how by increasing friction (loss) to a system, can you suddenly increase its output?

Because in engineering, we understand that one way to have more output, is to DECREASE friction…

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 4:14 PM

The Founding Fathers understood this. That’s why they believed that the government that governs least, governs best.

AZCoyote on July 12, 2009 at 4:34 PM

Of course people said CRA, Freddie and Fannie were dangerous boondoggles. And now look, we get a Congressional report saying the same thing.

Why should we listen tot these people about anything?

tarpon on July 12, 2009 at 4:38 PM

A lecture from a Kenyan Pretender is not worth a cup of warm piss.

old trooper2 on July 12, 2009 at 4:44 PM

I don,t know what is worse Libs on economics or Rino Rep.trying to be just like them.They are all the same just a bunch of no nothing jerks These people could not run a youth fund raising car wash with out going broke.Just like today on the sunday talk shows Libs & the sicko fent Rinos talking about much good Obama is doing.Then saying if Gov.Palin wants to run for Pres she must listen to them a read the NY & LA times and the washington post.to learn all about economics and foreign affairs.

thmcbb on July 12, 2009 at 4:58 PM

shoot, my father told me when i was just a child that one can never borrow or spend their way out of debt. and we were all from a one-horse town in southern rural redneck Virginia.

what i mean is that we didn’t go to Ivy League schools & we weren’t from Chicago & we weren’t metro-sexual, whatever that means.

my daddy liked his beef from out in the pasture, too.

kelley in virginia on July 12, 2009 at 5:17 PM

As Clinton once scoffed:

“We could give [tax cuts] to you and hope you spend it right… But … if you don’t spend it right, here’s what’s going to happen. In 2013 — that’s just 14 years away — taxes people pay on their payroll for Social Security will no longer cover the monthly checks… I want every parent here to look at the young people here, and ask yourself, ‘Do you really want to run the risk of squandering this surplus?’”
PackerBronco on July 12, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Same as Al Gore in the 2000 campaign claiming that Bush was going to “squander the surplus” by giving tax cuts. I still can’t believe the Bush team didn’t do a better job hitting Gore over the head with his argument – squander the surplus by giving the money back to the people as opposed to keeping it in Washington because DC knows better how to spend the money. Unbelievable that they actually admitted their thinking.

PatMac on July 12, 2009 at 5:39 PM

With the exception of Walmart and McDonalds, I don’t invest in American stocks anymore. When Obama goes, I’ll be back.

JiangxiDad on July 12, 2009 at 5:42 PM

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before,
but had once failed an entire class.
——————————————–
That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”.

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that.

bucko36 on July 12, 2009 at 5:44 PM

The lies and deceptions that Obama used to get elected were too easy that now that he has actually made it so obvious, even those in his party have no choice, but to rebuke the insanity. It makes the socialists so easy to distinquish that maybe there is hope we can preserve our country. A good way to start is:

FLUSH the 219 in 2010.

volsense on July 12, 2009 at 5:44 PM

PackerBronco on July 12, 2009 at 2:38 PM

All great points but a long winded way of saying hubris.

chemman on July 12, 2009 at 5:45 PM

kelley in virginia on July 12, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Your dad must be fuming over this mess called government.

Texyank on July 12, 2009 at 5:49 PM

Limerick on July 12, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Johan Klaus on July 12, 2009 at 3:28 PM
ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 3:40 PM

Leave her alone, or address the argument. She’s not nearly as bad as the trolls we used to have around here.

Fortunata on July 12, 2009 at 5:50 PM

I consider myself “liberal.”

But I don’t consider myself a proponent of stimulus packages.

I think that just is nonsense.

AnninCA on July 12, 2009 at 3:04 PM

It is also nonsense when applied to a smaller economic slice, like health care.

GunRunner on July 12, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Whats interesting is that Keynsians argue that by increasing government spending (adding more loss to the system) you can somehow create more wealth (ie goods)?

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Modern day Alchemists in action.

chemman on July 12, 2009 at 5:51 PM

One of the worst things that can happen to an administration is for them to see things as rosey while the citizenry suffers. It’s sometimes called the Pollyanna effect.

Mike Volpe

Considering Obama stubbornly pursues policies that have always failed in the past, perhaps we need a new term. Might I suggest the Pollyanal effect?

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on July 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM

Read today that O is throwing effort behind investment-or so says Geithner. Is he running scared? In 2010 too close? My guess would be yes.

jeanie on July 12, 2009 at 5:54 PM

Open response to a friend unclear on the concept, the concept of reason!

I’m not sure even why I am bothering to respond to this idiocy…

“He says the stimulus package wasn’t big
enough.”

The $787 Billion stimulus package alone is equal to 75% of total Gov’t expenditures in ‘08! I repeat, you cannot remedy overspending by spending yet more. The interest payments alone on US debt is (by team O’s own rosy projections) projected to reach just under $1Trillion a year by the end of his administration. Never before this year has the T-word ever even entered the lexicon of American budgetary politics!

Thomas Jefferson said it best what this portends, “I sincerely believe… that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”

The only difference between Bush & Obama is their respective constituencies getting the largess. Bush’s rich friends and Obama’s rich friends. Many of which overlap, see; Goldman/Sachs. They are identical in their histories of cronyism, Bush in Texas & Obama in Chicago.

It is my firmest belief that the parties, Democrat & Republican, have hi-jacked our now non-representative Gov’t. They now merely battle each other over the spoils that represent what should be our future prosperity.

The founding fathers warned us against the factionalism of parties, that they would be our undoing. There are many quotes to choose from, but so well put by George Washington, “The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism.” We are now reaping that whirlwind.

Ben Franklin admonished us that they had bequeathed us “a Republic if you can keep it!” It is questionable whether we have succeeded.

What troubles me most is how Bush & Obama both have so cavalierly ignored the rule of law, moved apace in the usurpation of our civil liberties, and too many’s apparent apathy to the repercussions. If these actions are allowed stand, there is another warning yet more dire and should concern us all. It was John Adams who so famously said, “A constitution of government, once changed from freedom, can never be restored; liberty, once lost, is lost forever.”

The other day you queried me as to whose side I am on. I am on the side of those of whom I have just quoted.

Archimedes on July 12, 2009 at 5:54 PM

bucko36 on July 12, 2009 at 5:44 PM

+100

I offered, as a lark, a similar grading plan for a High School AP Chemistry class one year. I knew it was full of students who parroted the progressive thought their parents had taught them. The parents went ballistic. How dare I hurt their child’s chance of getting into (name the elite school) with this idea of progressively taxing points. I had a good laugh at the hypocrisy of the parents. They never understood what I was laughing about.

chemman on July 12, 2009 at 5:58 PM

texyank: thank goodness my father isn’t alive to see this. he believed in capitalism, the stock market, land ownership, 2d amendment; he was a veteran, small business owner & taxpayer.

kelley in virginia on July 12, 2009 at 6:07 PM

One again I will remind everyone. OBAMA DOESN’T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT THE ECONOMY!

Barry is all about the REDISTRIBUTION of wealth in this country. Every one of “his” programs is aimed in this direction.

GarandFan on July 12, 2009 at 6:08 PM

The two party system is broken and not worthy of repair.
Inside the beltway professional politicians must be replaced with citizens from the states. Real people with real jobs must replace carreer thieves of both parties.

Those who would run on Term Limits for all branches of government such that the corruptocrats can never again so consolidate their power that they fear not the American voters.

Small government, domestic drilling, right to work union or not, and putting the congress critters and senate scum on the same pay/benefit scale as U.S. military. They serve no higher a function and are no more deserving of their perks of office than those who put their lives on the line for our country.

dhunter on July 12, 2009 at 6:09 PM

Liberalism’s implacable hostility to market economics

I winced mightily when I read this phrase. Liberalism is defined by support for capitalism and free trade. The economic program of the Left is most decidedly illiberal. If you used the language correctly, you would refer to Barack Obama, and those like him, as progressives. Steve Forbes and Rudy Giuliani are liberals. (Mike Huckabee is a conservative.)

So long as market economics remains associated with the anti-science and anti-modernity ideals of conservatism, market economics, and liberty generally, will remain in the political wilderness.

hicsuget on July 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM

You don’t stimulate jobs, the rest goes to hell.

Obama, who never held a real job, knows nothing of this calculus.

profitsbeard on July 12, 2009 at 6:17 PM

Japan’s lost decade has left behind it a large amount of infrastructure with very little use to it. As the population declines there are schools and other buildings that are not even part-way filled, large public infrastructure projects that serve no one and people looking at such things as modern harbors with few ships at them.

The US problem is that we have a huge infrastructure that we haven’t been paying our dues on, and no amount of short-term ’shovel ready’ projects will fix them. By neglecting the annual overhead and maintenance of thruways, water systems, sewage systems, surface roads, railroads, airports… and on and on… no one year, five year or ten year set of plans can address what we have not been keeping up for decades. Those bridges built during the Depression era? Fifty year life spans, and they show it. Even the ones built under Eisenhower show their age. In St. Louis part of I-64 had to be closed to just tear it down and start rebuilding it from the ground up.

America does not have a liquidity problem, it has a solvency problem. Not only do we have to get rid of the debt, in large part, but also the ‘public service’ programs that sound so nice, but take from our infrastructure. What is the first thing to be short-changed during a recession? Maintenance. What is the last thing to be added to in boom times? Maintenance. When a bridge fails it is not a fault of one party or another, but of the political system that forgets that the ’services’ run on infrastructure.

Your choice will soon be to have ’services’ you can’t use, can’t get to, and start to see the infrastructure around you fail… or to cut back, not be as ‘nice’ from government, and have government concentrate on the public infrastructure so you can have clean water, effecient sewage systems, enough electricity, decent roads to drive on, and the slow, steady, removal of decades (and even a century or more) old systems and replace them. That can be done, but not with government mandated fuel efficiencies, Medicaire, Medicaid, Social Security… all of that is making the nation insolvent. We pay to put the most skilled workers on the planet on golf courses and then deprive our younger generation of a good infrastructure so that they can have as good a life as those on the golf course had.

Thanks, but no.

Government is the cause of this, and trying to make ‘good things’ for government to do ignores its stewardship role to the point we have no steward of our public infrastructure. Works great until the engineering limits are reached. Then things go downhill steadily and faster as time goes on. That curve is now becoming apparent. Your choice: be nice to folks and lose our public infrastructure or let folks fend for themselves and have an infrastructure where the people can use their liberty to support the less well off. Government is now failing at both these roles.

The choice is yours.

ajacksonian on July 12, 2009 at 6:20 PM

dhunter on July 12, 2009 at 6:09 PM

Someone posted a link to a chart of GDP per capita, by state.

At the top of the list, by almost 20K more per capita? The District of Columbia.

Yes, the highest per capita GDP is a place that produces nothing except the Federal Government, and lives exclusivly off of the Wealth spent on that government.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 6:24 PM

It’s too bad statist liberal politicians aren’t as concerned with dollars as they are carbon credits. They spend dollars like they think we spend carbon units.

Has anyone calculated the carbon footprint of the big ol’ money printing press that’s working ’round the clock chunka chunkin’ out those bills?

I’d bet it’s equivalent to Al Gore’s casa.

–the hypocrisy

ted c on July 12, 2009 at 6:27 PM

romeo: that chart explains why the people of Northern Virginia are liberal & don’t “get” the rest of our state.

the same could be said of those that live in NYC vis a vis the rest of the state; Chicago & the rest of Illinois.

kelley in virginia on July 12, 2009 at 6:27 PM

In spite of all the arguements to the contrary, I believe that we needed to let ALL of the companies that were ‘bailed out’, to in fact fail!

By not allowing these failed institutions to fail, we have simply sucked the federal government into the absurd ponzi scheme and are in the process of destroying the US dollar.

In the end, rebuilding the dollar is going to cost far more than the money sent to save absurdly operated companies like freddie mae, fannie mac, aig, gm, etc. Allowing these companies to fail would have opened the market place for new companies to form and and grow. Now, all we have are government run institutions that will be sucking up federal money until they are finally put to sleep.

Obama’s dream of ‘redistributing the wealth’ is a failed policy tried many times, in many failed states, all across the world. Obama is ignorant of world history in far too many ways.

Freddy on July 12, 2009 at 6:28 PM

ajacksonian on July 12, 2009 at 6:20 PM

Interesting point, but is Infrastructure a cause, or an effect.

One problem is that we don’t MAKE things anymore. We buy them from overseas (including our energy), and then measure success by the GDP which only measure how fast money changes hands.

What we need to do is start making stuff again… but the only way to do that is to have CHEAP energy, and to get the government out of the way.

California is a good example of how Government policies on energy and the environment, can destroy a vibrant economy. When you can no longer be competitive at the creation of goods, but still consume, you will eventualy go bankrupt.

Obama is not trying to do that on a National scale.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Interesting that he throughs a $1.3 trillion figure out there for loss in aggregate demand. Probably arrived at the same way Timy Geithner does his taxes: start from the desired result and start reasoning backwards.

Ted Torgerson on July 12, 2009 at 6:33 PM

Obama is not NOW trying to do that on a National scale.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Had to fix it for meself… LOL

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 6:34 PM

freddy: we realize that “redistribution of wealth” doesn’t work. obambi surely understands this. he is doing this because he believes it will work this time.

sort of like the Detroit Lions fielding a team, year after year after year.

kelley in virginia on July 12, 2009 at 6:36 PM

I winced mightily when I read this phrase. Liberalism is defined by support for capitalism and free trade. The economic program of the Left is most decidedly illiberal. If you used the language correctly, you would refer to Barack Obama, and those like him, as progressives. Steve Forbes and Rudy Giuliani are liberals. (Mike Huckabee is a conservative.)

So long as market economics remains associated with the anti-science and anti-modernity ideals of conservatism, market economics, and liberty generally, will remain in the political wilderness.

hicsuget on July 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM

You are trying to give English lessons? Here’s one you missed. Words have meaning in context. A 19th century British supporter of free trade would be called a liberal. A 1970s American opponent of free trade would also be a liberal. A conservative might be a monarchist in 18th century England or a Reaganite in the 1980s. It appears though you just went through that trite “you don’t know what liberal means” bit because (1) you wanted to write something irrelevant and negative about religion and (2) you don’t understand what the blogger was writing about.

Ted Torgerson on July 12, 2009 at 6:41 PM

Obama is not now trying to do that on a National scale.

Romeo13 on July 12, 2009 at 6:31 PM

dhunter on July 12, 2009 at 6:41 PM

Fortunata on July 12, 2009 at 5:50 PM

Yes, yes you are right. Since she ignores any conflicting opinion, we need to do the right thing.

ericdijon on July 12, 2009 at 6:42 PM

So,in essence,Hope and Change was actually a code all
along,a plan if you will to destroy capitalism!

Since when will Hope and Change feed a hungry child,or
pay the mortgage,or supply a paycheck,or have any way
possible at fueling America’s economy!!

The Liberal Party has committed financial murder of a
America!!(and yes,I’m kidding)

canopfor on July 12, 2009 at 6:52 PM

(2) you don’t understand what the blogger was writing about.

Ted Torgerson on July 12, 2009 at 6:41 PM

I’m an economist. It was The Other McCain who didn’t understand what the blogger was writing about.

hicsuget on July 12, 2009 at 6:57 PM

If Team Obama,plans to screw America again,oops,I mean,
ask for another second stimulus,in which they have already
admitted,that they “Mis-Read”,whats the next grand excuse,
er,I mean weekly Lefty talkin points gonna be,when they,F-
Up once again!!

And if Team Obama,has the unmittigated gall to demand a
second bailout of the bailout,then,let Nancy Pelosi and
Barney Frank,crawl on all fours to the podium,er the well,
and this time,have Pelosi and Franks lay the blame,not on
Nancys first performance of ” 8 years of failed Bush polic
ies”,

but of “Failed Liberal Policies”,of the last 175 days,of the
the Obama’s Administration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

canopfor on July 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM

bucko36 on July 12, 2009 at 5:44 PM

Could you please oh please provide the source? I would LOVE to take the wind out of a few libtard’s sails with that story!

Dark-Star on July 12, 2009 at 7:17 PM

Obama insists the first stimulus pkg. worked perfectly, exactly as he anticipated, all according to plan. Which is why he wants more. Always more. And again, more.

President Barack Obama said his $787 billion stimulus bill “has worked as intended” as he pushed back against Republican criticism that his recovery program has failed to rescue the economy.

Faced with an economic downturn that has proved deeper than the White House initially projected, Mr. Obama asked Americans on Saturday to remain patient, arguing that his $787 billion stimulus plan had saved the economy from collapse and put it on a gradual course to recovery. “As a result of the swift and aggressive action we took in the first few months of this year, we’ve been able to pull our financial system and our economy back from the brink,” he said, deflecting calls for a new round of stimulus spending and saying that his plan was intended to work not in a few months but over two years.

Facts in summary:
First six months in office facing recession
Bush +24.8% economic growth
First six months facing recession
Obama -5.2% economic negative growth
Obama administration, black hole economics, black matter, negative energy. Obama’s obligations into debt throw our nation and globe into another Great Depression.

So far as fiscal conservatives go, who comes to the rescue? A la Chirac Al Gore’s global governance green economy, chains that bind.

And so far as social conservatives go:

In truth, though, Obama’s pragmatic approach to divisive policy (his notion that we should acknowledge the good faith underlying opposing viewpoints) and his social-justice agenda reflect the views of American Catholic laity much more closely than those vocal bishops and pro-life activists. When Obama meets the pope tomorrow, … Catholics back home won’t care, because they know Obama’s on their side. In fact, Obama’s agenda is closer to their views than even the pope’s.

“IN TRUTH” LOL

maverick muse on July 12, 2009 at 7:18 PM

Measures that prevent recovery will only prolong the misery, and one investment manager summed up the current situation Friday:
“Nobody’s investing because there’s no reason to invest,” said Dawn Bennett, CEO of Bennett Financial Group.

That’s the problem with post bubble environments. Try as they might you can’t put the splat back in the bottle. Every area that was inflated is now deflating. It cannot be stopped.

However there is always one last desperate hail Mary-a new bubble.

patrick neid on July 12, 2009 at 7:36 PM

Liberalism is defined by support for capitalism and free trade. The economic program of the Left is most decidedly illiberal. If you used the language correctly, you would refer to Barack Obama, and those like him, as progressives. Steve Forbes and Rudy Giuliani are liberals. (Mike Huckabee is a conservative.)
So long as market economics remains associated with the anti-science and anti-modernity ideals of conservatism, market economics, and liberty generally, will remain in the political wilderness.
hicsuget on July 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM

Let’s not quibble over semantics, Hic. I know very well that 19th-century “Manchester liberalism” advocated the same free-market agenda that Americans today describe as “conservative economics.”

The liberalism to which I refer, the typical agenda of contemporary Democrats, can be traced in a straight line from the “progressivism” of Teddy Roosevelt, through Woodroow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, LBJ and Jimmy Carter to Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, et al. You confuse the issue, obscuring rather than enlightening, when you introduce definitions of “liberal” and “conservative” that haven’t been widely recognized in more than half a century.

Furthermore, your discussion of “science” and “modernity” ignores the contemporary liberal’s assertion that his anti-market agenda is both scientific and modern — an assumption shared for at least a century by Western “progressives” and Marxists, who have never hestitated to denounce defenders of economic liberty as “old-fashioned” advocates of “horse-and-buggy” notions.

Finally, contrary to your insinuation that conservative Christians are ihherently anti-market (I’ve got no use for Mike Huckabee), I have asserted that Bible-based Judeo-Christian belief condemns the welfare state:

Such a policy is not merely misguided, it is immoral — indeed, it is sinful, as I told the Christian homeschoolers — and by displaying the spectacle of government engaging daily in legalized theft, the welfare state tends to corrupt the morals of its citizens.

Read the whole thing.

The Other McCain on July 12, 2009 at 7:39 PM

Dark-Star on July 12, 2009 at 7:17 PM

Sorry! Source not known. It was sent by a friend and she didn’t know the source. I “Googled” searched for a source, but couldn’t find any. It’s a great story anyway and is an accurate “result” in real world “Socialistic Economy’s”.

bucko36 on July 12, 2009 at 7:44 PM

Socialism is nothing more than subsidization of poverty and sin.

William Amos on July 12, 2009 at 2:16 PM

FIFY

Sapwolf on July 12, 2009 at 7:49 PM

From AP News

On his first trip to the Middle East as Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geithner’s message this week will be similar to the one he delivered to Chinese officials a month ago: your investments in the United States are safe.

Geithner is expected to repeat assurances that the government’s soaring budget deficits will not trigger a devastating bout of inflation that sinks the value of the dollar and foreigners’ holdings.

Geithner is scheduled to hold high-level meetings on Tuesday and Wednesday with top government officials and leading business executives in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

“We have a fiscal policy that will ultimately undermine the value of their holdings and that has got foreign investors nervous,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Economy.com. “They are seeking assurances that the U.S. is committed to dealing with its long-term deficit problems.”

William Amos on July 12, 2009 at 7:56 PM

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