Pope lectures Obama on abortion

posted at 5:55 pm on July 10, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Some people believed that Pope Benedict’s meeting with Barack Obama amounted to a slap in the face of conservative American Catholics, who have criticized Obama’s liberal stands and actions on abortion, a silly notion considering the official status of both men.  Even more obviously, they didn’t understand Benedict or know his history.  When Obama met Benedict, the Pope began with a lesson on the fundamental nature of human life:

Pope Benedict XVI stressed the church’s opposition to abortion and stem cell research in his first meeting with President Barack Obama on Friday, pressing the Vatican’s case with the U.S. leader who is already under fire on those issues from some conservative Catholics and bishops back home. …

“In the course of their cordial exchanges, the conversation turned first of all to questions which are in the interest of all and which constitute a great challenge … such as the defense and promotion of life and the right to abide by one’s conscience,” the statement said.

Even in his gift to the U.S. leader, the pope sought to underscore his beliefs. Benedict gave Obama a copy of a Vatican document on bioethics that hardened the church’s opposition to using embryos for stem cell research, cloning and in-vitro fertilization. Obama supports stem cell research.

“Yes, this is what we had talked about,” Obama said, telling the pope he would read it on the flight to his next stop, Ghana.

There is no word in this report about what Obama gave the Pope as a gift, although it does say that Obama brought a letter from Ted Kennedy and a request to keep the Senator in the Pope’s prayers.  One hopes that Obama is getting better protocol advice on gift exchanges than he did with Gordon Brown’s visit and his audience with Queen Elizabeth.  The Pope’s gift, though, sent a message.  The Vatican later confirmed that Benedict had only given copies of his recent encyclical on human dignity in economics to other heads of state, not the policy position on bioethics.

This should surprise no one.  As a cardinal, Joseph Ratzinger had taken a conservative line on doctrine, supported in that effort by then-Pope John Paul II, and was not one to shy away from confrontation.  He has gently but firmly insisted on reciprocity from Muslim states on freedom of Christians to worship when attending ecumenical meetings.  Benedict planned to control the agenda by making his meeting with Obama a teaching moment, even if Obama had already closed his mind:

Denis McDonough, a deputy White House national security aide, said of the pope and Obama, “They discussed a range of those issues, and I think the president was eager to listen to the Holy Father.” He said Obama was “eager to find common ground on these issues and to work aggressively to do that.”

Bu[t] he said there may be some issues on which they can’t agree.

Clearly, and on those issues, Benedict has no plans to remain silent.  Neither should we.

Update: Actually, the White House did a very good job picking out the gift this time.  Looks like they’re learning from their protocol mistakes, anyway.  (via Fallen Sparrow in the comments)


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If the Pope wants to get their attention rega(r)ding abortion, the(n) EXCOMMUNICATE the DEMS that are Catholic.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 7:30 PM

Including those that are pro-life? The Church is not the Democratic Party, which punishes groups of people. Sin is individual.

There are many reasons why a good practicing Catholic would join the Democratic Party. For example, the Party which is closest to Church statements on the migration of people is the Democratic Party at this point in time. Just a few decades ago, it was the Republican Party which occupied that position with regard to freedom of movement across our borders, while it was the Democrats who were the actors holding the Know-Nothing stance.

Mind you, I’m a Catholic who’s not a Democrat and am very far away from their group-think ideas, but I can understand, how, in good faith, someone who is Catholic can be a Democrat.

unclesmrgol on July 10, 2009 at 9:19 PM

Conservative Catholics did not in general vote for him. I suspect Church going Catholics conservative or not did not either.

CWforFreedom on July 10, 2009 at 8:51 PM

My guess is that liberal voting Catholics either do not regularly attend Mass or attend a parish unlike any I’ve ever seen.

A lot of people who claim to be Catholic don’t attend Mass weekly or take the Sacrament of Penance (confession and absolution). I’ve seen some who only seem to show up on major Feast Days, then either leave without taking the Host, or go up to an alter server and risk the chance that they will be turned away. Given they always go to volunteers and there is usually chaos, I’ve not seen one turned away yet. When I was baptized Catholic as an adult, slowly figuring this out and seeing it happen blew my mind.

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:21 PM

I don’t have the answers to your questions….but let’s just say at my parish, I saw more Obama stickers than McCain stickers and it baffled me….

cmsinaz on July 10, 2009 at 9:22 PM

unclesmrgol on July 10, 2009 at 9:19 PM

point taken

cmsinaz on July 10, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Ed, may I suggest reading this about the gift Obama gave His Holiness:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/07/what-will-pres-obama-give-the-pope-when-he-is-admitted-to-his-holinesss-presence/

Vatican Watcher on July 10, 2009 at 8:55 PM

ED! CHECK THIS OUT!

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf of What Does The Prayer Really Say? got an email from a priest friend stating:

It is said to be a stole that “belonged to” John Neumann, something of ‘great historical significance’ – but when you look at the photo of the stole here, it is obvious that it is an Almy special

and then as you read further, you begin to pick up the fact that it really was only put on the body of the saint in 1989 and removed a few yeas later to be replaced with something that was more authentic to the period in which he lived.

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Barry, the Gift Idiot strikes again!

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:27 PM

Including those that are pro-life? The Church is not the Democratic Party, which punishes groups of people. Sin is individual.

There are many reasons why a good practicing Catholic would join the Democratic Party. For example, the Party which is closest to Church statements on the migration of people is the Democratic Party at this point in time. Just a few decades ago, it was the Republican Party which occupied that position with regard to freedom of movement across our borders, while it was the Democrats who were the actors holding the Know-Nothing stance.

Mind you, I’m a Catholic who’s not a Democrat and am very far away from their group-think ideas, but I can understand, how, in good faith, someone who is Catholic can be a Democrat.

unclesmrgol on July 10, 2009 at 9:19 PM

Conservative Catholics did not in general vote for him. I suspect Church going

I guess I’m kind of lost regarding legitamate reasons for Catholics to be Democrats.The Democratic Party national platform includes support for the most savage forms of infanticide. I’d thing=k this would make it a non-starter for Catholics. As far as the Catholic views on supporting illegal aliens, once again the key word is ILLEGAL and is certainly NOT in the same league of importance with baby murder.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 9:28 PM

If the Pope wants to get their attention regading abortion, the EXCOMMUNICATE the DEMS that are Catholic.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 7:30 PM

Can we get something straight here? The church does not need to excommunicate anyone for abortion. It is automatic. Anyone having an abortion, performing one, or aiding in one is automatically excommunicated. No pronouncement is needed.
Unless and until that person makes a confession and repents of that grievous sin they are doomed according to the Church. They should stop giving communion to these people though as it is ridiculous to claim they do not know who they are.

As far as a majority of Catholics voting for Obama I would remind people that religious persuasion is self identified during a poll. If as many people who claim to be Catholic actually went to church every Sunday they would have to build many more churches.

Rocks on July 10, 2009 at 9:28 PM

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:25 PM

That is all true but none the less it is still a stole which has rested on the body of a saint for 18 years. It does not have great material value but it is still significant and was an appropriate gift, far better than history would suggest they were even capable of.

Rocks on July 10, 2009 at 9:31 PM

80’s and forward. Brilliant wastes, not helpful in preserving society,just taking advantage of it.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2009 at 9:08 PM

Yes. I saw leftist ideology gaining in the 70′s, but it really took off in the 80′s and has been entrenching and expanding since. However, a truly brilliant mind cannot be wasted without its owner’s consent.

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:32 PM

thank you for your good work.

JiangxiDad on July 10, 2009 at 9:12 PM

Well thank you!

highhopes on July 10, 2009 at 9:33 PM

They should stop giving communion to these people though as it is ridiculous to claim they do not know who they are.

As far as a majority of Catholics voting for Obama I would remind people that religious persuasion is self identified during a poll. If as many people who claim to be Catholic actually went to church every Sunday they would have to build many more churches.

Rocks on July 10, 2009 at 9:28 PM

THat’s my point,IF a priest, bishop, Monsignor or Cardinal KNOWS a person is a Democrat, which, logically means they support abortion because of the Party Platform, then it’s that person of authority to inform the offending person they are excommunicated and cannot partake of any sacraments.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 9:34 PM

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 9:28 PM

Are any Lutheran’s Democrats? Any orthodox? Are any Anglicans? Any baptists? Any Evangelicals? Any Mormons? Any Jews? What is the point?

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:37 PM

Rocks on July 10, 2009 at 9:31 PM

At the very least, it would be a third-class relic.

It’s a Catholic thing.

manwithblackhat on July 10, 2009 at 9:41 PM

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 9:28 PM

Are any Lutheran’s Democrats? Any orthodox? Are any Anglicans? Any baptists? Any Evangelicals? Any Mormons? Any Jews? What is the point?

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:37 PM

I’m SURE there are, and like any Catholic that is a Democrat,, they should be excommunicated, in my opinion. Unfortunately, like Catholics there are “Protestant” denominations that call themselves “Evangelical”,that are as liberal, if not more so then some Catholic Parishes.
The ONLY reason the Catholic part comes up is three fold, one, there’s a lot of Catholics in some areas of the country, two, the Catholic Church has the highest profile leader, the pope, and third, so many famous pro-abortion Democrats seem to be Catholic.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 9:44 PM

At the very least, it would be a third-class relic.

It’s a Catholic thing.

manwithblackhat on July 10, 2009 at 9:41 PM

I don’t think it’s holiness was the point but rather it’s history. This was a meeting of 2 heads of state and history usually takes precedent. Obama failed miserably with that in the UK.

Rocks on July 10, 2009 at 9:48 PM

That is all true but none the less it is still a stole which has rested on the body of a saint for 18 years. It does not have great material value but it is still significant and was an appropriate gift, far better than history would suggest they were even capable of.

Rocks on July 10, 2009 at 9:31 PM

Somewhere, I read that the stole was a relic that belonged to Saint Neumann and was presented as such. But I cannot find such a misrepresentation anywhere.

So, yes. You are right. The stole gift certainly has religious significance and is an appropriate gift.

PLEASE IGNORE MY POSTS OF 9:25 PM & 9:27 PM.

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:48 PM

“Common ground” my ass. I suppose the White House was upset because Benedict wouldn’t kiss Barry’s ring.

JonRoss on July 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM

Are any Lutheran’s Democrats? Any orthodox? Are any Anglicans? Any baptists? Any Evangelicals? Any Mormons? Any Jews? What is the point?

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 9:37 PM

The story was about the Roman Catholic Pope and Barry Obama. I suppose if Barry had visited Salt Lake City today the conversation here would be a little different tonight.

JonRoss on July 10, 2009 at 10:01 PM

The story was about the Roman Catholic Pope and Barry Obama. I suppose if Barry had visited Salt Lake City today the conversation here would be a little different tonight.

JonRoss on July 10, 2009 at 10:01 PM

It was a good question by Lax as I made a statement about the Catholics giving us Obama. I guess if you were one of the evidently few Conservative Catholics, you’d be a bit defensive about it too.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 10:08 PM

An honest press would have outlined Obama’s true abortion stance and voting record before the election.

Speakup on July 10, 2009 at 10:11 PM

Credit where credit is due: Obama’s gift to the Pope was tasteful and appropriate. It was a stole from an American saint, St. John Neuman. H/T The Anchoress for posting about it.

evergreen on July 10, 2009 at 6:30 PM

Leave it to Pinnochio to give the pope a stolen gift.

Oh sorry, I guess there’s enough real material with this nitwit I don’t have to make any up.

dhunter on July 10, 2009 at 10:28 PM

I wonder if Benedict XVI had an impulse to hold up a crucifix and repeat over and over again, “The Power of Christ compels you! The Power of Christ compels you!” a la Father Karras in the Exocist?

coldwarrior on July 10, 2009 at 10:31 PM

I wonder if Benedict XVI had an impulse to hold up a crucifix and repeat over and over again, “The Power of Christ compels you! The Power of Christ compels you!” a la Father Karras in the Exocist?

coldwarrior on July 10, 2009 at 10:31 PM

I’d figure the anti-Christ Obama would be uncomfortable around a holy man

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 10:34 PM

Pope Benedict XVI stressed the church’s opposition to abortion and stem cell research

Once again the MSM omits a key adjective. The Church opposes embryonic stem cell research. Adult stem cell research is okay.

But the MSM is definitely not biased, right? /sarc

March Hare on July 10, 2009 at 10:34 PM

The White House staff must have gotten a memo from the Hollywood fashion experts that bud tails on an i-pod would clash with the Pope’s robes.

yoda on July 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM

What the pope SHOULD of said:

http://www.cowboyway.com/Clips/EldersBetters.wav

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 10:41 PM

gently but firmly

Suaviter et Fortiter

That’s how it’s done.

Good work, Pope Bendict :)

bluelightbrigade on July 10, 2009 at 10:45 PM

gently but firmly

Suaviter et Fortiter

That’s how it’s done.

Good work, Pope Bendict :)

bluelightbrigade on July 10, 2009 at 10:45 PM

Pope:

http://www.cowboyway.com/Clips/YourFault.wav

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 10:52 PM

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Perhaps you might look to the voting of every member of your own denomination before you admonish Catholics about our faith, our religious leaders, and our voting practices, as you recommended the Pope do, here:

Pope should start admonishing HIS OWN PEOPLE FIRST!

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 8:22 PM

And then, I missed these:

Not knocking Catholicism but I grew up Catholic and found it to be too liberal for my tastes, so I switched.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 8:03 PM

I guess if you were one of the evidently few Conservative Catholics, you’d be a bit defensive about it too.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 10:08 PM

I’d figure the anti-Christ Obama would be uncomfortable around a holy man

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 10:34 PM

So, you grew up Catholic, but decided Catholicism is “too liberal,” and you “switched.” What teachings of the Church are “too liberal?”

But you’re not “knocking Catholicism?” Just the Pope and Catholics who vote for any Democrat? But not the “evidently few Conservative Catholics?” Which you measure how exactly?

And you don’t have an ax to grind about Catholics and Catholicism, because Catholicism is “too liberal?” And you’re not biased against Catholicism because you so opposed it that you quit?

Okay.

And I have no need to be even “a bit defensive” about my faith. But I did want to give you the opportunity to freely demonstrate your views about Catholics, the Pope and Catholicism to all readers. Thanks for making your views perfectly clear.

However since Obama did appear comfortable around the Pope and you figure Obama “would be uncomfortable around a holy man,” could you be clearer about what you mean, just in case anybody might think you are implying that the Pope is not a holy man?

Loxodonta on July 10, 2009 at 10:53 PM

Perhaps you might look to the voting of every member of your own denomination before you admonish Catholics about our faith, our religious leaders, and our voting practices, as you recommended the Pope do, here:

I’m a member of the most conservative Lutheran Synod there is, if there are any DEMS in my congregation, they’re well hidden. Keep in mind due to the IRS we can’t get into politics at church, but I assure you that the VAST, VAST, VAST majority of my fellow congregation members vote Republican ONLY because there’s no viable MORE conservative party.

So, you grew up Catholic, but decided Catholicism is “too liberal,” and you “switched.” What teachings of the Church are “too liberal?”

I grew up in the 60s in grade school in a large Catholic Church. It was obvious to all that 2 of the 4 priests were a bit light in the loafers and at least one, if not both of the priest have had former member go after them for past “indiscretions” 3 of the four priests would teach religion and go off into pro-Communist tangents speaking to us about “economic justice”, and how our system of government crushed the common workers of the world. Since a family was in the seminary and left due to the fact that he wasn’t gay, didn’t want to be, and wasn’t a Communist confirmed this all to me. This was more common than you think in the 60s & 70s.

My point is simply, today, that most people that call themselves “Catholic”, whether practicing or not, tend to vote Democrat. This, I would think , would fly directly into the face of Catholic Churches hard rule regarding abortion. The fact that they, as a religious group, gave us Obama this last election. This is a FACT, and believe me I have no higher regard for any protestant religion that would also support this evil butcher.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 11:13 PM

family member

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 11:16 PM

If the Pope wants to get their attention regading abortion, the EXCOMMUNICATE the DEMS that are Catholic.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 7:30 PM

You can’t excomunicate someone for voting dem. If you were to use that same logic, you could say excommunicate anyone who votes republican, because republicans have failed to stop the abortion genocide and you could say they are even worse because they use that pro-life claim to get elected but never deliver on it.

Personally I can’t vote dem because of their rabid support of the abortion holocaust and their promotion of the pagan/secularist agenda. But I am certainly getting sick of phony politicians who use the pro-life claim to get elected but never deliver on it when they are elected.

MaximusConfessor on July 10, 2009 at 11:20 PM

You can’t excomunicate someone for voting dem. If you were to use that same logic, you could say excommunicate anyone who votes republican, because republicans have failed to stop the abortion genocide and you could say they are even worse because they use that pro-life claim to get elected but never deliver on it.

Personally I can’t vote dem because of their rabid support of the abortion holocaust and their promotion of the pagan/secularist agenda. But I am certainly getting sick of phony politicians who use the pro-life claim to get elected but never deliver on it when they are elected.

MaximusConfessor on July 10, 2009 at 11:20 PM

Two things. First, I’m on your side about any politician, of either party that either promotes or by doing nothing, wastes his authority to go after that horrible act.As to my view regarding anyone belonging to a party being excommunicated, I’m going to use an analogy that’ll make you cringe, but it’s true.Exactly WHICH NAZIs were the good NAZIs? If you were a member, and belonged to that party, by your own choice, aren’t you at least guilty as an accessory to killing millions of Jews, even if that act was repugnant to you?

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 11:26 PM

VAST majority of my fellow congregation members vote Republican ONLY because there’s no viable MORE conservative party.

Yes it is a problem that there is not a more viable party for all christians. But I would disagree about needing a party more conservative. The problem is conservatism doesn’t really jibe with Christianity in my opinion. If the dems were Pro-Life and more supportive of Christianity and less supportive of the paganist/secularist and gay agenda then I would think the Dem party would be more appropriate for all christians. Christianity does not support cutting out benefits to the poor and does not support wars for unjust causes etc…while conservatives generally do.

MaximusConfessor on July 10, 2009 at 11:34 PM

VAST majority of my fellow congregation members vote Republican ONLY because there’s no viable MORE conservative party.

Yes it is a problem that there is not a more viable party for all christians. But I would disagree about needing a party more conservative. The problem is conservatism doesn’t really jibe with Christianity in my opinion. If the dems were Pro-Life and more supportive of Christianity and less supportive of the paganist/secularist and gay agenda then I would think the Dem party would be more appropriate for all christians. Christianity does not support cutting out benefits to the poor and does not support wars for unjust causes etc…while conservatives generally do.

MaximusConfessor on July 10, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Well the DEMS do have that pesky abortion/gay giant schism to overcome. AS for war I wasn’t aware that only anti-war hippies could be Christian. In fact I haven’t met an anti-war hippie that even wanted to be associated with Christians. Another problem the Democrats have is their ANTI-GOD attitudes. Their love of all things secular.
As for the poor it is true they try to make people more dependent on the government, but considering the fact that they currently want to get rid of tax deductions for charitable giving, which is largely given to Christian Organizations, I tend to put much credibility in that.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 11:40 PM

tend not

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 11:41 PM

We are not anti-war hippies just anti-unjust war(such as our wars against Orthodox Serbs and Russians in favor of immigrant muslims etc.)

I am Orthodox and just about every other Orthodox Christian I know votes republican, but one thing you must consider is, we(and probably roman catholics too) aren’t really enthusiastic about being associated as or led by protestant fundamentalists/evangelicals etc..

Yes there is a lot of common ground that we can work with and much more so with than any other religious group etc but you must understand in our view (and a majority view of most Christians throughout the world) America is essentially a nation run by heretics who misrepresent Christianity. I’m sure that’s not something most protestants who grow up in the west realize but that is how us America as a nation is seen throughout most of the Christian world.

MaximusConfessor on July 10, 2009 at 11:49 PM

We are not anti-war hippies just anti-unjust war(such as our wars against Orthodox Serbs and Russians in favor of immigrant muslims etc.)

I am Orthodox and just about every other Orthodox Christian I know votes republican, but one thing you must consider is, we(and probably roman catholics too) aren’t really enthusiastic about being associated as or led by protestant fundamentalists/evangelicals etc..

Yes there is a lot of common ground that we can work with and much more so with than any other religious group etc but you must understand in our view (and a majority view of most Christians throughout the world) America is essentially a nation run by heretics who misrepresent Christianity. I’m sure that’s not something most protestants who grow up in the west realize but that is how us America as a nation is seen throughout most of the Christian world.

MaximusConfessor on July 10, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Max, I can understand some of your points. First the Orthodontic/Roman Catholic versus Protestant thing. ( I was Catholic until I was 18) I don’t get upset about it as I’ve been on both sides of that line. I really have a hard time worrying about that. I guess it’s more YOUR problem than mine. Kind of like that stupid infighting in Ireland all those years. As for how America is seen throughout the world, again, it’s not something that bothers me as America has been the helper and guardian of every free country since it was founded. Other parts of the world loves to verbally attack America, but sure love it when they send their sons to bleed for someone elses battles.
Anotherwords, i couldn’t care less what some other loser countryu or region thinks of us. That’s a DEM/LIB worry, not a conservative one.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 11:58 PM

Orthodox darn spell check

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 11:58 PM

You don’t worry about that at all? Even when we have do nothing dem(and GOP)presidents who allow mohammedan fanatics to acquire nuclear weapons and threaten on detonating them in US cities?

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:01 AM

You don’t worry about that at all? Even when we have do nothing dem(and GOP)presidents who allow mohammedan fanatics to acquire nuclear weapons and threaten on detonating them in US cities?

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:01 AM

No, I said I don’t care what they think of us. But if it was up to me right now, I wouldn’t let Iran push us around, I’d get them to quit with the nukes, or help Israel make them a smoldering parking lot, or just do it ourselves.

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:05 AM

I mean if you’re going to go to war with the mohammedans, you should AT LEAST have the will to win the war right?

Not alientate and bomb all of the Orthodox world..and then start a war with the mohammedans,lose your resolve and allow the mohammedans to get nukes because you’re too busy siding with the pansy leftist western euro’s..

Yes this is what Bill Clinton,Jimmy Carter,George Bush,Reagan and Obama have done.

If we were smart we would have Orthodox Eatern Europe and Russia(i.e. the only ones who are actually fighting off the mohammedans as they proceed into Europe and the west) as allies on our side.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:11 AM

I mean if you’re going to go to war with the mohammedans, you should AT LEAST have the will to win the war right?

Not alientate and bomb all of the Orthodox world..and then start a war with the mohammedans,lose your resolve and allow the mohammedans to get nukes because you’re too busy siding with the pansy leftist western euro’s..

Yes this is what Bill Clinton,Jimmy Carter,George Bush,Reagan and Obama have done.

If we were smart we would have Orthodox Eatern Europe and Russia(i.e. the only ones who are actually fighting off the mohammedans as they proceed into Europe and the west) as allies on our side.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:11 AM

Max, WHO that is Orthodox, are we bombing?

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:15 AM

Anyone else notice how the omit the “embryonic” when they say Obama supports “stem cell research” and just say that the Pope (and other conservatives for that matter) oppose “stem cell research” when adult stem cell research is supported?

Iblis on July 11, 2009 at 12:16 AM

Anyone else notice how the omit the “embryonic” when they say Obama supports “stem cell research” and just say that the Pope (and other conservatives for that matter) oppose “stem cell research” when adult stem cell research is supported?

Iblis on July 11, 2009 at 12:16 AM

Yup…it’s an old DEM trick that only morons believe.

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:20 AM

I’m talking about the brave Orthodox Serbs who are on the front lines in the Balkans against the mohammedan invaders also the Russians who are not soviets but are an Orthodox Christian nation.

We Americans sided with the mohammedan terrorists in Serbia and fought against the Orthodox Serbs and we also sided with the taliban and the Chechynian mohammedan terrorists against Russia on numerous occasions.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:27 AM

I’m talking about the brave Orthodox Serbs who are on the front lines in the Balkans against the mohammedan invaders also the Russians who are not soviets but are an Orthodox Christian nation.

We Americans sided with the mohammedan terrorists in Serbia and fought against the Orthodox Serbs and we also sided with the taliban and the Chechynian mohammedan terrorists against Russia on numerous occasions.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:27 AM

I thought those brave Orthodox Serbs shot women and children and buried them in huge open pits,

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:38 AM

I thought those brave Orthodox Serbs shot women and children and buried them in huge open pits,

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:38 AM

That’s what the lying mohammedan terrorists told the UN and Slick Willy.

Don’t forget it wasn’t just Clinton. It was W Bush himself that helped create an islamic terrorist country right in the middle of historic orthodox Serbia too.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:43 AM

uly 9, 1999 | DJAKOVE, Yugoslavia — In the village of Meja, on the outskirts of the 16th century town of Djakove, the fields are filled with the anonymous dead. In one, two large compost piles circled by bulldozer tracks have been moved, re-piled and inverted. According to witnesses, they contain countless executed ethnic Albanians. The air around them is putrid, the surrounding grass littered with identity papers, combs, cigarette cases, bloody hats, human bones and teeth; a leg dismembered at the hip, the shoe still attached. The whole figure of a man, just bones and clothes now, lies in the thicket where he fell, probably shot trying to escape. According to war-crimes investigators, at least 400 men, women and children — most of them refugees on the run from other villages, some from Djakove itself — were executed and buried in this one place by Serbian paramilitaries. At least 100 more were shot in a schoolhouse 200 meters down the road and trucked away. Two cemeteries nearby have been scored by pit graves big enough to accommodate dozens of bodies. Atop one lies a severed human foot and the scalp of a young woman who had had long black hair.

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:45 AM

Risking snipers, facing sights so dreadful that they weep along with the victims’ families, forensics teams from around the world — including a team from the FBI — are performing the heartbreaking but essential task of recording Serbian atrocities in Kosovo.

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:46 AM

I guess I’m kind of lost regarding legitamate reasons for Catholics to be Democrats.The Democratic Party national platform includes support for the most savage forms of infanticide. I’d thing=k this would make it a non-starter for Catholics. As far as the Catholic views on supporting illegal aliens, once again the key word is ILLEGAL and is certainly NOT in the same league of importance with baby murder.

Jeff from WI on July 10, 2009 at 9:28 PM

For some people infanticide as a lesser evil, or, as non-scientists, claim that it isn’t infanticide at all — merely the extirpation of a “tissue mass” (a position, of course, completely counter to Church teaching, but then who pays attention to Church teaching other than those at Mass every Sunday?). Neither party is fully in line with Church teachings, so the same argument (as I pointed out previously) could be made with regard to Catholics who are Republican.

As for “illegal” aliens the Church has no such concept — which is probably why you aren’t a Catholic anymore — that “liberal” teaching certainly stuck in your craw.

unclesmrgol on July 11, 2009 at 12:50 AM

The truth is the mohammedan fanatics killed massive amounts of Serbs and even many of their own people (who they also fight with BTW)put them in a pit took a photo and called the UN and blamed the Serbs.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:53 AM

Obama (Drudge) tells Pope he wants to reduce abortions in the U.S.

Well ain’t that like telling a battered wife you are hoping to blacken only her left eye?

Limerick on July 11, 2009 at 12:54 AM

For some people infanticide as a lesser evil, or, as non-scientists, claim that it isn’t infanticide at all — merely the extirpation of a “tissue mass”

unclesmrgol on July 11, 2009 at 12:50 AM

Well uncle, when an ultra-sound, something that’s been around for years can confirm it as a kid, or the kid actually kicking the mother,that’s easily seen, I guess we can dispense with the stupidity of calling it a tissue mass.

By the way do liberal pro-choice women throw each other “Non-Viable Tissue Mass” Showers if the kid is wanted?

I didn’t think so.

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:56 AM

I’m talking about the brave Orthodox Serbs who are on the front lines in the Balkans against the mohammedan invaders also the Russians who are not soviets but are an Orthodox Christian nation.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:27 AM

As Jeff points out, a lot of what the Serbs did wasn’t brave. The people they killed may have had ancestors who abandoned Christianity, but that doesn’t make them less human or less entitled to life and liberty or, after death, our sympathy and resolve to prevent further atrocities against their bretheren. Tito kept the lid on all that (Serb/Croat/Muslim antagonism) for his entire “reign”, but the Serbs definitely blew the lid off. I have sympathy for the Serbian historic viewpoint (they stopped the Muslims from reaching the interior of Europe), but I certainly don’t empathize with what they did to their peers any more than I sympathize with what the Croats did when empowered by the Nazis.

unclesmrgol on July 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM

The truth is the mohammedan fanatics killed massive amounts of Serbs and even many of their own people (who they also fight with BTW)put them in a pit took a photo and called the UN and blamed the Serbs.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 12:53 AM

Max, seriously, nobody cares any more. I don’t care. The Balkans are a crap hole to me with idiots fighting every few years and pulling the world in with it. Remember WW1, another Serb idiot in another Balkan fight. For all I care they can Nuke the entire Balkan region. The world is sick of all you guys.

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 1:00 AM

I didn’t think so.

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 12:56 AM

I don’t either, but that doesn’t stop others from thinking so, or being miseducated to think so by PP or their Democratic fellow-travelers….

And, in Catholicism, acting (or choosing to not act) on an untruth you don’t know is an untruth is not a sin. And if you believe something to be good, action against it, even at the behest of clergy, is a sin.

Our opponenents used our silence against us and now that we aren’t silent anymore, they are calling us uneducated and uncouth. Many people in Kansas City said they’d grown irritated at how their young kids were forced to view all the pictures of killed fetuses being carried around Tillman’s center and through their downtown while he was alive. Inconvenient truths, I gather, bother people.

unclesmrgol on July 11, 2009 at 1:09 AM

Regardless..I give props to the roman catholic Pope for having the guts to lecture “lightworker” himself about abortion and embryonic stem cells..

It definitely would be a great improvement if obama did become roman catholic and abandoned his heretical protestant faith and support of infanticide.

MaximusConfessor on July 11, 2009 at 1:19 AM

President Obama meets man with higher pay grade who is there to answer the questions he can’t answer.

Unfortunately the TelePrompter was absent, so he couldn’t understand it.

ajacksonian on July 11, 2009 at 7:04 AM

President Obama meets man with higher pay grade who is there to answer the questions he can’t answer.

Unfortunately the TelePrompter was absent, so he couldn’t understand it.

ajacksonian on July 11, 2009 at 7:04 AM

Well put!

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM

I liked the picture on here of the two of them. “You’re Holiness, the Spawn of Satan, Spawn of Satan, your Holiness”
“Nice to meet you” “Nice to meet you too”

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009 at 8:46 AM

I wonder what happens when a President lies to a Pope? Obama clearly tells people what they want to hear and it’s even more obvious by telling the Pope he’d like to cut down on abortion. This after he’s stated on several occasions his support of partial birth abortions. Give me a break. What is ‘above his pay grade’ may land him in a special circle of hell.

ccbokc on July 11, 2009 at 12:41 PM

Update: Actually, the White House did a very good job picking out the gift this time.

Yes, this time they got the correct Version 1 DVDs. Benedict is reportedly enamored with his new box set of Passion of the Christ, Jesus Christ Superstar and The Da Vinci Code.

RD on July 11, 2009 at 12:47 PM

Yes, this time they got the correct Version 1Region 2 DVDs.
RD on July 11, 2009 at 12:47 PM

RD on July 11, 2009 at 1:08 PM

But I am certainly getting sick of phony politicians who use the pro-life claim to get elected but never deliver on it when they are elected.

MaximusConfessor on July 10, 2009

It’s amazing the lengths to which people go to rationalize their evil acts. I’ll bet not one of them would believe you’re talking about them.

SKYFOX on July 11, 2009 at 1:13 PM

I liked the picture on here of the two of them. “You’re Holiness, the Spawn of Satan, Spawn of Satan, your Holiness”
“Nice to meet you” “Nice to meet you too”

Jeff from WI on July 11, 2009

Very funny, but I take issue with your assertion that Ogabe is the spawn of Satan. I think he’s just a spawn wannabe.
You did remind me of the joke I read on HotAir (might be yours…I don’t remember the source).
You hear about the dyslexic devil worshiper who sold his soul to Santa?

SKYFOX on July 11, 2009 at 1:18 PM

Perhaps the stole was an appropriate gift in the present day. But apparently not so throughout history. According to a Catholic priest in the UK:

“In a previous age the idea of an Emperor investing a Pope with a stole, the sign of priestly authority would be taken as definite sign of the subjection of the Church to the secular authority.”

http://marymagdalen.blogspot.com/2009/07/obamas-gift.html

Lawbear on July 11, 2009 at 4:27 PM

Obama gave the Pope replicas of ‘piss Christ’ the Dung Virgin Mary and a copy of the DaVinci Code as gifts. The Pope gave Obama a copy of the bioethics treatise and a copy of the US Constitution for Obama to familiarize himself with.

eaglewingz08 on July 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM

No doubt, some people will use BO’s visit with the pope to dredge up the old myth that “no one knows when life begins” and that (most) Catholics are against abortion for religious reasons.

I’m not Catholic, but I know that science has no doubt when a new human life begins. I have a copy of “The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology,” fourth edition, which was written for medical students. On page one, it says, “Human development is a continuous process that begins when an ovum from a female is fertilized by a sperm from a male…Zygote: This cell results from fertilization of an ovum by a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being.”

There are any number of other non-religious textbooks that say the same thing, yet that convenient myth persists. As C.S. Lewis pointed out, there are indeed sins of the intellect.

KyMouse on July 12, 2009 at 8:31 AM

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