House Dems rebel against health-care reform
posted at 6:50 pm on July 9, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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First it was the Senate derailing Barack Obama’s big legislative priority, cap-and-trade, until after the summer recess. Later in the day, the House joined in what looks to be a mini-retreat from the President with the declining poll numbers. The Blue Dog Coalition has demanded a delay in producing a health-care reform bill, with a specific eye towards avoiding taxes and apparent opposition to the “public plan” Obama has demanded:
The drive to remake the nation’s health care system suffered yet another setback in Congress on Thursday when a pivotal group of House Democrats rebelled against leadership-backed legislation taking shape and sought additional time to make changes.
“We need to slow down and do it right,” Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., said outside a meeting of the Blue Dog Coalition, a group of 52 moderate to conservative Democrats. “It needs to do a much better job of cost containment” within the health care system, he added.
Other lawmakers said they were concerned about proposed tax increases, the rules on any government-sold insurance, and other issues that are key to implementing President Barack Obama’s call for sweeping legislation.
Ross said the group was drafting a letter to the Democratic leadership asking for additional time. Although he did not specify how much time, he said he believes no vote should take place until the fall — well after a midsummer informal deadline set by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Something has the Democrats feeling the heat. Obama’s dropping poll numbers, especially among independents, have to have moderate Democrats worried about being seen as a rubber stamp for Obama’s big-spending policies. The Blue Dogs exist in large part because they convinced conservative voters that they could trust Democrats to maintain fiscal sanity better than the Republicans they replaced.
The news from pollsters and constituents look pretty bad for Democrats looking towards a midterm election in the middle of a deep recession and escalating unemployment. In Michigan, for instance, pollsters find that 75% of voters believe the country is going in the wrong direction, up from 71% in May. When considering the US as a whole, that number went from a 46% plurality in May to a 52% majority. Since Democrats have been in charge since January, the blame for that falls on one party. So far, where unions keep voters toeing the Democratic line, the respondents indicated they still trust the Democrats more to fix things, but they may be ready to bolt to the GOP in 2010 if the economy continues to falter (via William Amos).
The moderate and coal-belt Democrats in the Senate doomed cap-and-trade, and now the Blue Dogs in the House may put the brakes on nationalizing the health-care industry. If Obama can’t get either of those packages out of Congress this summer, he will suffer a humiliating defeat at the hands of the friendliest Congress he will ever have.
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I don’t think anyone would argue we need some change in healthcare…it’s in dire shape. I don’t care what they do, as long as they attempt to fix it instead of going with the status quo and bankrupting Americans who are trying to put up with skyrocketing premiums from the insurance crooks.
dcwvu on July 9, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Run dogs, run.
Lincoln Cadillac on July 9, 2009 at 6:55 PM
ACORN needs to get the clubs out, rent some buses and get to work or this thing might be sunk.
JellyToast on July 9, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Yes, lets all vote for Reps in 2010 to get back to the financial utopia we enjoyed before Obama! Um, on second thought…
dcwvu on July 9, 2009 at 6:57 PM
I see the Dems are now realizing they are about to lose their jobs?
upinak on July 9, 2009 at 6:57 PM
You gotta love the placard on the podium. That says it all!
HoustonRight on July 9, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Take this for what it’s worth. My mother in law was taken to the ER last night. Since a doctors visit on Friday where she was diagnosed as de-hydrated and suffering from a possible UTI she has just not felt any better and took a turn for the worse last night. They arrived at 7:30. She was finally seen at around midnight. Tell me this will suddenly get better under a national health care system. My instincts tell me not just no, but hell no.
jewells45 on July 9, 2009 at 6:58 PM
dcwu
you are the reason we conservatives are pissed…. So you don’t care what happens?……. Stand back, take a breath and analyze what you said. I trust insurance companies more than government. No, I don’t work in insurance.
MNDavenotPC on July 9, 2009 at 6:59 PM
Yeah … just who put it in the shape it’s in? Government.
Get the government out. There’s no problem with minor insurance and health care regulation, but the government is strangling insurance and health care. Add to that the exorbitant malpractice rates and you’ve got yourself overpriced health care.
Perfect setup for the dems to come in and whine about it and how they’ll save everyone.
The government caused it … get them the hell out of it.
darwin on July 9, 2009 at 6:59 PM
You trust the insurance companies? Then you’re either A) The most trusting person on Earth or B) laughably naive about how the insurance companies run.
dcwvu on July 9, 2009 at 7:00 PM
In the words of Bob Dylan, “If dogs run free, than why not we?”
CK MacLeod on July 9, 2009 at 7:00 PM
You would be shocked how many people would take you up on that…I sure as hell would…without the Barney Frank/Chris Dodd induced housing disaster, of course.
AUINSC on July 9, 2009 at 7:00 PM
I have no problem with Obama suffering a humiliating defeat but the Repubs better be prepared to take full advantage of it with strong alternative messages and solutions that reach the mainstream, otherwise, we just have a defeated president with time to recover.
sherry on July 9, 2009 at 7:02 PM
Really? Wow. Proof that some people need sterilizing and/or voting rights denied.
dcwvu on July 9, 2009 at 7:03 PM
Private business must produce desirable results for clients or else they won’t stay in business very long. There is no such pressure on government to perform at those standards.
Unfortunately, you seem to be the naive one.
darwin on July 9, 2009 at 7:03 PM
80% of Americans are happy with their current health care – sounds like not much needs to change. Maybe if the false “50 million Americans with no health care” was actually the reality, then we could talk about expanding Medicaid. But since nearly half are illegals, one third qualify for Medicaid but don’t sign up and the rest are “in between” or newly unemployed or “invincibles” who don’t want to spend their beer money, I think the insurance system is working just fine. “Dire shape” sounds a bit exaggerated.
Now, costs could go down if we could accomplish tort reform but with a WH in bed with the trial lawyers, it doesn’t look good in the short term.
gopmom on July 9, 2009 at 7:04 PM
I’ve never advocated for govt to step in and take control. We just need a huge overhaul of the healthcare industry or we’re in huge trouble. It’s at a tipping point as it is.
dcwvu on July 9, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Really just a wonderful day, news-wise. Couldn’t have assed…I mean asked for more.
Reality: That big tree branch that smacks you in the head while you were floating along in la la land.
Thunderstorm129 on July 9, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Its about time…
ladyingray on July 9, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Which is why the filthy liar will scale back healthcare to a socialism-lite version of his grand scheme so that he can force it through Congress and declare victory.
highhopes on July 9, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Ship , iceberg , rats , leaving.
the_nile on July 9, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Concierge care FTW!
Rae on July 9, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Blue dogs, yellow bellies.
Chubbs65 on July 9, 2009 at 7:07 PM
That’s why the best way to lower cost is to get the government out of the way. One reason it’s expensive is because of government.
darwin on July 9, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Really? I bet you care. How about executing everybody with cancer? That’d get costs down. Letting all premature babies die? That’d help. Outlaw MRI’s. They’re expensive!
The entire “DO SOMETHING!” argument is a crock of excrement, and anybody who invokes it knows it as well as I. You do care what they do, and what I’m guessing you want them to do is something pretty socialist.
How about, rather than handing over everything to the people who brought us the Postal Service, fighting costs by lowering the premiums doctors have to pay for malpractice insurance, by regulating the amount of money trial lawyer scum like John Edwards can make from gratuitous class actions suits? If they clear more than $250k beyond administrative costs, isn’t that truly an “obscene profit”? What about reducing insurer costs by giving you both the option of being covered only for truly catastrophic injury, not for every visit you make to the doctor because you think you might have a cold? (You know, rather like your homeowner’s insurance works.)
To fix a system, you first have to find out why it’s broken. Screaming immediately for mommy–or The State–doesn’t automatically provide answers.
Blacklake on July 9, 2009 at 7:08 PM
What? You mean they don’t want any part of funemployment?
ladyingray on July 9, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Huge overhaul is nothing but a talking point. Specifically what do you want to change? Exactly why are we in trouble if the huge overhaul doesn’t happen? What, exactly, is going to happen if it tips over?
Oldnuke on July 9, 2009 at 7:09 PM
dcwvu on July 9, 2009 at 6:53 PM
Those insurance crooks you speak of do not provide health care. They sell a policy of insurance to help mitigate the cost of health care.
fourdeucer on July 9, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Tip:
1.Cut illegals form gov’t paid health care.
2.Tort reform
3.Less gov’t restrictions on insurance to allow pooling of indivual and small business policies to lower risk.
I am sorry that you feel your utopia slipping away.
HoustonRight on July 9, 2009 at 7:11 PM
Wrong timeline, and wrong approach. Let’s all vote for honest, conservitive, Republicans, Democrats and Independtants in 2010, and get back to the financial growth and stability we had before the Democrats took over Congress in 2006. Most of today’s economic problems are not because of Obama, or Bush. It is mostly the House, and to a lesser degree the Senate.
MikeA on July 9, 2009 at 7:11 PM
Then call me anyone. It is not in dire shape. Changes in healthcare that make sense involve rationing and serious discussions about realistic costs both for the services and what portion of that the consumer and his/her employer pays. What is needed is insurance reform, not healthcare reform. What people like you want is Caddilac healthcare for Yugo prices and that just isn’t realistic.
P.S. I love the class warfare by calling an entire industry “crooks.” Most of your ilk at least target the executives or companies instead of calling the local agents criminals. That is the kind of audacity the filthy liar in the White House is banking on. Serious discussions boiled down to emotion by morons who think they should get their healthcare for free but complaining when they think they are being cheated.
highhopes on July 9, 2009 at 7:12 PM
When Republicans are back in power in 2010, we will no longer have healthcare problems!! Keep saying that, please. It will set up Obama’s re-election in ‘12 nicely.
dcwvu on July 9, 2009 at 7:12 PM
Too bad more of em’ didn’t rebel against the peanut laden wrinkle neck that was Crap and Trade.
BigWyo on July 9, 2009 at 7:12 PM
Sorry, 79% of Americans are satisified with their health care as it exists. A high % of the uninsured are illegal aliens. I am dead set against doing ANYTHING for them, other than send them home.
Another fair % of the uninsured are uninsured by choice. Either they are wealthy enough to paygo, or they are young and prefer to spend their money on other things.
We have a fairly small percentage of the population dealing with chronic conditions so they can’t find coverage or their converage has a lot of gaps and their incomes are stretched too far with those gaps. These are the people we need to find solutions for.
However, I don’t favor nuking the entire system and letting some unionized SEIU government hack telling me what my doctor can and can not do to treat my health care needs.
In addition, by almost demanding public coverage of people’s health care insurance premiums is the same thing as my neighbor demainding that I pay for their car insurance and house insurance. Why is health insurance any different?
We need tort reform before we need health care reform. Doctors pay 6 figures annually to keep their malpractice coverage. We need to get the legal sharks out of this water. It just creates unnecessary costs in the system. In addition, we need to go to a loser pays system to prevent frivolous lawsuits.
Case in point. My sister is a cancer doctor. Early in her career, one of the doctors she knows treated a medicaid patient. That patient had a condition that basically was going to end up with a cholostomy bag after radiation treatment. She was required to sign the informed consent before treatment. She was explained very carefully and thoroughly what she was facing.
After being well treated, as well as those with gold plated insurance, by both the hospital staff who had the radiation machine, and the doctor in charge of the care, they were only reimbursed about 10% of the overall costs for the care, thanks to medicaid. My sister and I figured out that the doctor reimbursement paid about $7 per hour for the care given directly to that patient. Remember, these doctors lose 10 extra years of earning power as they train and graduate from medical school with school loans that are in excess of 6 figures.
What was the end result of this case? The patient ended up with the cholostomy bag, and she SUED everyone for mailpractice. Bear in mind this woman was so stupid, she failed to understand that she was going to receive NOTHING from this lawsuit because the state and federal government gets any of the settlement money to pay for the treatment costs. Bear in mind that the settlement money never finds its way back to the caregivers, who gave up 90% of the billing in the first place to treat this ingrate.
Even though the doctor did nothing wrong, the insurance company FORCED settlement of an amount that wasn’t all that much, considering. I don’t remember if it was $15K or $30K. The plaintiff attorney took 40% of the settlement (sued on cintingency), and the state/fed took the rest. The doctor ends up with a mark on his record, even though there was no malpractice, and his insurance premiums skyrocketed up an extra $30K per year for the duration. This was 20 years ago.
So the malpractice premiums that were extra because of this woman approached a half a million dollars over time. The woman got NOTHING. The dirtball attorney who sued on contingency got about $10K at the most. And a terrific doctor has this on his record. If he had gone to trial and lost, the insurance company would pay nothing. SO the doctors are forced to do whatever the malpractice insurance company tells them, even if the standard of care was above any reproach.
This is what has to be fixed in this system BEFORE they come after us to pay for our neighbor’s health care costs.
karenhasfreedom on July 9, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Once a while ago I chided you a little for using the filthy liar epithet. Later I told you I was coming around to agreeing with you on it. Now, I could not truthfully post what I feel about him and his entire administration without being instantly banned.
Oldnuke on July 9, 2009 at 7:15 PM
Cap and trade need to be gone, gone. Health care needs to be looked at very carefully, and if something must come about, very slowly and deliberately with the option to remove if it proves to be damaging.
jeanie on July 9, 2009 at 7:16 PM
How’s that philosophy working out so far?
Jim Treacher on July 9, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Then get the federal government the hell out of it completely.
-Dave
Dave R. on July 9, 2009 at 7:16 PM
yay yay! slow down the machine!! Nice to see some life in the Blue Dogs. I call a Critter almost daily, and pester everyone else to do the same…
if we keep pestering they may help us save the economy despite the cabal of dunces running the show….
ginaswo on July 9, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Excellant post.
HoustonRight on July 9, 2009 at 7:18 PM
Wait…what??? You don’t want the government to take control…but…you want the government to make A HUGE OVERHAUL on the health care industry by…ummm…not taking control…or something???
It’s all perfectly clear now…
BigWyo on July 9, 2009 at 7:18 PM
52 Blue Dogs (misnomer, by the way) -8 RINO votes…at least…leaves 44 vote cushion. I’m sure 35 BlueDogs can be bribed and 9 more RINOS. Nothing to see here. Move along.
SouthernGent on July 9, 2009 at 7:19 PM
I most certainly would argue with that. We do have the best healthcare in the world, period.
The 49-million-uninsured number is a complete fraud. (Though even the RNC is using it these days – idiots).
The “change” we need in healthcare is to get government – Federal and state – out of it. And that’s the last thing that’s gonna happen under the current climate of hysteria.
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 7:20 PM
First and foremost, I hope your mother-in-law is doing well.
That being said (and I really mean it), the national healthcare system would treat your mother-in-law as a demographic. If she’s over a certain age the system would provide less care because old people are simply not cost- efficient in healthcare run like the DMV. There is no way that the system in place now will be better under the socialism advocated by the filthy liar in the White House.
highhopes on July 9, 2009 at 7:20 PM
Whatever you do, don’t look at the latest unemployment figures.
There will always be healthcare problems, no matter who’s in power. But the problems will be worse if Obama gets his way.
Jim Treacher on July 9, 2009 at 7:20 PM
Liberal tolerance alert!
salmonczar on July 9, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Let’s see your Bona fides on how insurance companies run.
PappaMac on July 9, 2009 at 7:23 PM
Oh good, I thought it was just me.
salmonczar on July 9, 2009 at 7:24 PM
karenhasfreedom on July 9, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Excellant post, by the way those doctors who spend tens of thousands of dollars and years in training, start out having tons of debt. The cost of malpractice insurance alone is causing the biggest shortage of health care workers
and the more they have to pay the worse it is going to get.
fourdeucer on July 9, 2009 at 7:24 PM
The Democrats are feeling the heat from the polls. They damn well know that people are waking up to the fiscal madness going on and want it stopped. If it isn’t stopped, the Democrats will not be able to blame George Bush and will suffer a bloodbath in the 2010 mid-terms.
GarandFan on July 9, 2009 at 7:24 PM
I have an even uglier story. In the early 90’s, I suffered a terrible accident. Surgery, two weeks in intensive care, near death the entire time. Three more weeks in a semi-private room.
Afterwards, I saw the explanation of benefits from my insurerer: my treatment cost over $200,000.
Now the guy in the semi-private room next to me was an illegal from the Dominican Republics. He had been diagnosed with AIDS back home, hopped a plane to New York, claimed asylum, was released at the airport pending a hearing, took a taxi directly to the airport.
He had been in that room for 5 weeks before I got there. His treatment, from what I could see, was much more intensive than what I was receiving. Nurse told me they expected him to live another two months or so…all on our dime.
My guess is his care had to have cost at least twice what mine did.
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 7:26 PM
Flush the 219 in 2010.
volsense on July 9, 2009 at 7:27 PM
You mean when unemployment was 5%, the DOW was above 12,000 and the deficit was less than half what it is now? Though you keep trying to hide the fact, the Dems took over after the 2006 election gave them both houses of congress. They wrecked the Rep economy.
I don’t think you’re “laughably naive” though. More likely “intentionally dishonest”
Cowboy is a compliment on July 9, 2009 at 7:28 PM
Here’s the one problem with your statement which I second with a resounding AMEN! The filthy liar in the White House and his corrupt party in Congress have so fouled the country that the GOP needs to come out with strong alternative messages and solutions that reach the mainstream but they have to be focused. All of the damage done by Obama and Democrats will not be undone simultaneously.
My suggestion would be a message that focuses on the economy (stopping as much of the Democrat stimulus bill as possible, lower taxes, encouraging capitalism) and national security (calling terrorists “terrorists” again, standing for democracy over tyranny again) The rest would need to be sorted out as it goes.
highhopes on July 9, 2009 at 7:29 PM
Meanwhile, the unemployment time bomb taped to Nancy Pelosers chair just keeps on ticking
tarpon on July 9, 2009 at 7:29 PM
I’m sure many of us can tell stories like this – of money lost, careers destroyed. When I signed on with a new primary physician a year ago, I had a conversation with her about what I expected as her “customer” and asked her, as a supplier of a valuable commodity, how she operated. It was very eye opening – for both of us. When I saw her last week, she told me that she now holds a meeting with all her new patients and has instigated similar conversations with all her patients since then. She said it has dramatically improved her business (that is what it is – a business) and she is encouraging other physicians to do the same. I went to a lot of trouble to find a physician – and I’m healthy and young. But I want to know who and what I’m dealing with if and when that changes.
It is time for Americans to take more responsibility for their health and their health care. They need to educate themselves. Wanting the government to step in and take care of everything is the exact opposite of what we need. People make mistakes – and they’re not always the doctor.
gopmom on July 9, 2009 at 7:29 PM
We need tort reform to bring down the cost of health care.
Of course, so long as we keep on electing lawyers to Congress and the White House, that will never happen.
atheling on July 9, 2009 at 7:29 PM
The only thing that’s going to set up Obama’s re-election in 2012 is an economic recovery that’s well under way by then.
Unfortunately for your boy (and thanks to his idiotic tax and spend and screw over businesses policies), there’s very little chance of that happening.
AZCoyote on July 9, 2009 at 7:29 PM
Well stated.
highhopes on July 9, 2009 at 7:31 PM
Well good..you can un-ball your tiny little fists and unclench you sphincter again.
BigWyo on July 9, 2009 at 7:32 PM
We need a new Contract with America that stresses issues independents can understand. (Which probably means there has to be a phonetic version, but nevertheless…)
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 7:33 PM
WELL said! *bravo*
The high deductible health plans coupled with an HSA was designed to do just that. I am a fan and like my plan.
bazil9 on July 9, 2009 at 7:33 PM
Wow…way to defend your position, genius.
AUINSC on July 9, 2009 at 7:33 PM
Currently the government pays about 50% for services under Medicaid and Medicare. The uncollected costs are passed on to everyone else that has insurance. Make Uncle Sam pay its own damn bills and quit leaching off of everyone else all the while stating your doing such a great job.
trs on July 9, 2009 at 7:34 PM
And Obama has already told the doctors last month at the AMA convention as much.
tru2tx on July 9, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Ruthie Ginsburg, is that you?
myrenovations on July 9, 2009 at 7:34 PM
The first HOPE for CHANGE since Nov 2008.
petefrt on July 9, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Apparently, the new polls have made the circuit in DC.
PappaMac on July 9, 2009 at 7:37 PM
I pay 23 dollars a week for my health care and I’m quite happy with it.
Geronimo on July 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Wonder how Barry’s taking the news tonight. G8 isn’t going to do shit on “Global Warming”. “Crap and Tax” just got derailed, now “ObamaCare” hits the skids. Just got caught oogling the ass of a 16 year old, and Michelle’s out buying $900 dollar shoes. What a week.
GarandFan on July 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM
This is clearly starting to drive the lefties nuts…they get a veto proof majority, and Barry’s programs are too batsh*t loony for even Democrats to stomach.
AUINSC on July 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM
I think dcwvu went to take his glaucoma medicine. :)
HoustonRight on July 9, 2009 at 7:41 PM
.
Don’t they have economic courses at West Virginia University? If not, then go to the library and check out the book “Free to Choose.” Learn about businesses that have no competition thus, they have no incentive to keep their prices down. The problem is simple. Create an environment for competition and your cost for insurance plans will go down. Any kind of government public health plan would be a disaster. Do some homework on this subject and quit using the talking points given to you by the DNC. The DNC is now a criminal organization attempting to rip the guts out of the capitalism system. I’m sure that your bright, young and enthusiastic but that and being misinformed is a bad formula for success. Educate yourself in macro-economics and a whole new world will open up for you.
Americannodash on July 9, 2009 at 7:41 PM
More on doctor story. My sister said that the only “fix” that involves the government is to ration care. For example:
People over 70 won’t get heart bypass surgeries anymore. It is their time to die, they cost too much. People on medicare or any state paid insurance won’t get any joint replacements, too expensive. They are just going to have to deal with pain and mobility issues. An aspirin is cheaper.
In England, the wait is so long for colon cancer treatment, people with treatable and curable cancer have advanced cancer by the time their wait is over and they have a very high death rate compared to the US.
In England, women can’t get that breast cancer drug that helps the estrogen to somehow work better or something, so breast cancer doesn’t come back. That drug is too expensive.
They don’t have the neonatal intensive care we do, neither does Canada.
That one actress who dies from hitting her head in that ski accident in Canada? Would not have happened here in the US. Even our littlest hospital ERs have the diagnostic equipment to properly stabilize and treat those kind of patients in time, to prevent death.
Need I go on?
Anyone who has a loved one need to know that if the government gets involved in our health care, the government is basically going to allow your loved one to die sooner than they would if we keep the present system, in spite of its “flaws”.
karenhasfreedom on July 9, 2009 at 7:41 PM
If the Democrats really, truly believe that their plan for healthcare is the right thing to do, they should not be afraid of poll numbers or losing elections.
Putting their plans on ice just leads me to believe that they don’t believe in what they are doing. If they are not willing to sacrifice their pretty titles for ObamaCare or Cap N Trade, then they shouldn’t be bothering with it at all.
They have the voting numbers and they have all the power.
myrenovations on July 9, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Me, too. I’m old enough to remember when the insurance you got through your employer was called “major medical”. It was high-deductible that protected you in case you had a catastrophic condition. Otherwise, you took care of your day-to-day doctor’s visits in cash. The market reigned and doctors kept their fees affordable.
Then all the nanny-staters, unions and, yes, the doctors, started beating the drum for “preventive care”, forcing the insurance companies to provide plans with laughably low deductibles. That boosted demand through the roof and made doctors a lot of money.
Which then ushered in the HMO era – as businesses demanded cost control.
Which ushered in capitation: insurance companies requiring the doctors to take on bigger and bigger patient populations.
Which meant that your “preventive care” ended up being a rushed, 10-minute consult that did nothing to improve your outcomes.
High-deductible, HSA plans take us back to the days of Major Medical. Problem is, a lot of people who are used to not having to pay for their own care don’t want HSA’s, even though, if they had the brains to do the math, they would find that they are usually better off taking and HSA than a low-deductible plan. But they don’t, because it just feels better to be able to send Junior to the doctor for $15 every time he has a sniffle. I say man up, Junior.
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM
I read about that just days before my very first, ahem, test/procedure.
I have happily paid my part of the bill that my insurance did not cover for the peace of mind that all is well.
The ramifications of socialized medicine is not only frightening – it is infuriating – for responsible people who pay their premiums, use the benefits only when necessary, and pay their bills.
tru2tx on July 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Definitely one of those Margaret Sanger liberals.
Guardian on July 9, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Good day for us. Bad day for Barry.
Hey, Barry… Suck it.
tickleddragon on July 9, 2009 at 7:55 PM
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 7:43 PM
I consult businesses on a variety of things. HSA plans as well. People are co-pay addicted. I created a cost comparison sheet for them which calculates their premiums for their traditional plan for the year and all the co-pays they used the previous year vs the premium for a hdhp/hsa plan. They usually spend a lot more for there current plan and until I show them the math, they don’t get it. The HSA accounts also allow for so many items to be reimbursed pre tax (dental, vision, COBRA premiums, LTC premiums, otc meds ect..) interest bearing account that they own.
So in short, because people are lazy do not want to do the math or educate themselves , they would rather pay a higher monthly premium so they can have that co-pay. All they see is a $100 co-pay for the ER ..so no biggie because they have no idea the real cost of that service. As you said, junior has a sniffle..lets run to the doc, it is only $15.
People do not know the true cost of care or take the time to check out less expensive alternative options.
bazil9 on July 9, 2009 at 7:56 PM
Is 6 months into his first term too early to call Obama a lame duck?
GrayDog on July 9, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Hmmm…if we’re talking barnyard animals, I’ll pick jacka$$. But that’s just me. :)
tickleddragon on July 9, 2009 at 8:02 PM
I would be pleased to argue…
If by “dire shape,” you actually meant “American health care is the best in the world,” then fine. I’ll say again, for emphasis; American health care is the best in the world.
You may argue,with some success, that our system of paying the providers of that care needs to be changed.
Tort reform is needed first. Doctors and hospitals overtest, and overprescribe, in order to avoid potential lawsuits. The cost of lawsuits, as well as the cost of malpractice insurance, is built into the entire structure.
In addition to the dollar cost, defensive medicine means that all patients are prescribed essentially the same course of meds. If you are allergic, or sensitive to meds, you get them anyway. This leads to a new course of tests and medications, to fix the problems that the first course caused.
Patients need to see the bills. My wife was charged, during the delivery of one of our children, for a monitor she didn’t get, three meds to which she is allergic (which she did not get) and 2 meals that would have been served to her later in her stay (except that we had already left.) I only saw this bill due to a mistake made by the hospital; I had to present this to my insurance company, in writing, before they would even agree to audit the bill. The amount they would have paid was $ 1,100.00 higher than it should have been.
Insurance companies need to be able to offer plans “across state lines.” Currently, a Massachusetts resident can’t buy isurance from New Hampshire (or any other state.) Competition always lowers prices.
A more secure identification program needs to be implemented, to prevent fraud. I know this is more intrusive, and can raise some red flags for conservative folks, but anything that can reduce fraud will lower costs.
These things will satisfy this part of your statement;
But you need to think more clearly about the last part;
…skyrocketing premiums from the insurance crooks.
massrighty on July 9, 2009 at 8:02 PM
Anyone who wants government interference in health-care has to answer one simple question for me. Name or show me one, just one, institution that they run that is efficient and cost effective. From what I can tell the military is the closest to a success but a little investigation will show that there have been some horrendous judgments that have both wasted money and endangered lives.
Cindy Munford on July 9, 2009 at 8:03 PM
At this point I would say, yes,that’s premature. But with the delay the American public are going to have a greater chance to see the flaws in public option health care and cap-and-trade. Provided, of course, the GOP take advantage of it with a full-court press. Regardless, we should still keep up the battle for public opinion ourselves if need be.
Wellsy on July 9, 2009 at 8:04 PM
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Prostitution. They get to screw us and we pay ‘em for it.
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 8:10 PM
massrighty on July 9, 2009 at 8:02 PM
Hey Mass, :)
I have a friend in Mass that tells me some pretty bad stories about Mass Care. She is an accountant and tells me it is hell at tax time. People have to supply documentation that they have insurance (only a plan that Mass recognizes as a credible plan by their standards) if they don’t have one, they get taxed. She told me because of the heavy mandates and what they deem credible coverage the rates are high, so some people say hey- just tax me, I am not getting a plan.
My observation and some experience is that Mass, Hawaii, Cali, NJ are really messed up. Heavy mandates, regulations ect.. compared to other states.
I wanted to hear your opinion.
bazil9 on July 9, 2009 at 8:12 PM
Nope, because I am not enjoying it.
Cindy Munford on July 9, 2009 at 8:12 PM
guntotinglibertarian on July 9, 2009 at 8:06 PM
That is the sad truth bud.
bazil9 on July 9, 2009 at 8:13 PM
Ooh, I hadn’t seen this one, at first. So, what’s your specific plan for the huge overhaul you advocate?
What would you change? Do you have any concrete ideas?
If not, you are (by abdication) going to let the government muck around in it. The masters of unintended consequences will make it a larger, more regulated system; it will be neither cheaper, nor better.
So, lets hear your plan.
If you keep sitting in the puddle created by your tears, you’ll eventually drown.
massrighty on July 9, 2009 at 8:16 PM
I don’t trust the Blue Dogs. They’re more like lap dogs.
They’ve done this in the past – stood together, only to come apart after a second run of a vote.
Don’t count on them to stand firm.
madmonkphotog on July 9, 2009 at 8:21 PM
MassHealth has been a mixed blessing. It’s the old story; some peoples circumstances have allowed them to benefit from it. The individual plans are attractively priced; the family plans less so. You’re right, some opt to pay the tax penalty rather than get covered.
It’s original goal was laudable – create a system where all residents could have (and had to have) insurance. It got worked over by the Mass legislature, and became larger, and more expensive, than the original design (stop me if you’ve heard that before!)
massrighty on July 9, 2009 at 8:21 PM
You don’t want government to step in? Then who? Fairies?
You leftists think you’re the smartest people in the room. You go to conservative websites and spew your touchy-feely talking points, and think your magnificently full brains will easily lord it over us troglodytes.
The really funny thing is – when you people finally grow up, and realize how wrong you were, America will no longer be functional. At best we’ll be like the socialists in Eutopia were (for a few short years). They have totally anemic economies, with massive social unrest (with riots and car burnings nightly). After that, we’ll collapse just like they’re doing now – only we’ll implode much faster than they have, since we won’t have a benevolent superpower to float us.
Lord help us.
Squiggy on July 9, 2009 at 8:25 PM
Shocker! lol
Thanks for your take.
bazil9 on July 9, 2009 at 8:25 PM
Can we still say Fairies?
/kidding.
massrighty on July 9, 2009 at 8:27 PM
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