Waxman: L’etat, c’est Obama; Update: AOL Hot Seat poll added

Dangit, stop using logic. Don’t you know the MSM relies on polls like this instead of real reporting.

cozmo on July 8, 2009 at 7:00 PM

Yep, that’s right.
Step # 1 – commision a poll – use a pollster who will;
A. Oversample democrats and so-called independents.
B. Call peoples houses during the day, guaranteeing an under-representation of, oh, I don’t know, people who work?
Step # 2 – skew the questions to promote an answer. Example: “Do you think torture, as the U.S. Military has practiced it at Guantanamo, is evil?”
Step # 3 – Widely report only the answer, tied to a headline that seems to be supported by the answer.

Presto, you now have a headline that screams:
“Poll shows Americans think U.S. torture is wrong.”

Step # 4 – Report on the headline, as if it had clearly established a complete, unassailable truth. Do not provide any internal components of the poll; if possible, avoid even referring to the stated poll question in your article.

This is how it’s done.

Combine it with the “big lie theory;” A lie, repeated often enough, becomes the truth.

We who know better are a small group, and must continue to expose the techniques, in hopes of swinging more people to our side.

massrighty on July 8, 2009 at 7:23 PM

Good luck with that Donna Quixote, Sometimes it feels like you are hitting your head against a wall.

cozmo on July 8, 2009 at 7:29 PM

I’m a Don, not a Donna;

And, I know it’s a short payoff proposition, but I think we’re called to do this.

massrighty on July 8, 2009 at 7:31 PM

Waxman’s appearance reminds me of Frank Oz, the man behind Miss Piggy and many other Muppets.

Check out his prison guard role in Trading Places.

massrighty on July 8, 2009 at 7:52 PM

ernesto on July 8, 2009 at 9:20 PM

OK, I’ll bite – please provide an actual citation, with a link, or a source.

A specific case where an elected Republican, in a leadership position, said that a particular dissent was treasonous, or indicated that the person who gave the dissent hated America.

If you’re wondering why I challenge your assertion, it’s because it follows a particular construct.

To excuse a Democrat, say “both parties do this.”
To accuse a Republican, say “look what the Republican did.”

massrighty on July 8, 2009 at 9:28 PM

ernesto on July 8, 2009 at 9:40 PM

Not a flimsy justification, a solid question, which you have chosen not to answer.

The argument you made, that I took exception to, was this one;

Democrats didn’t start turning political differences into treason or hating this country, Republicans did.

And, since we were original talking about Waxman, who happens to be an elected representative, I asked you this;

A specific case where an elected Republican, in a leadership position, said that a particular dissent was treasonous, or indicated that the person who gave the dissent hated America.

Not really flimsy, when you look at it.

When you’re argument is that Republicans started something, and I ask you to come up with a specific citation, you should work on that, instead of trying to be dismissive of me.

Remember, “you saying so, don’t make it so.”

Proof of your original assertion?

Then, in your later post, you say this;

I’ll gladly concede that it takes a democrat official to make such an assertion from a position of leadership. But i’ll continue to assert that the general line of argument was the crux of many a conservative criticism of liberal political ideas.

Okay, so we’re getting closer.
“democrat official making assertion from position of leadership” does not equal “the general line of argument was the crux of many a conservative criticism of liberal political ideas.”

Seafood chowder may have clams, but it is not clam chowder.

Now, whose argument looks flimsy?

massrighty on July 8, 2009 at 10:02 PM

ernesto on July 8, 2009 at 10:11 PM

Ernesto, you seem to think I’m hung up on the non-interchangeability of the terms “conservative” and “republican.”

Nope!

You need a Venn diagram for this, each has a component that is a subset of the other.

But, don’t do that exercise yet; answer my original question first.

What always gets me is the glib and easy way that some posters throw out logically unsupported statements like;

Democrats didn’t start turning political differences into treason or hating this country, Republicans did.

Without being able to support the assertion.

So, I asked you to support it.

You haven’t.

It’s not about labels; it’s not about the non-interchangeability of conservative and republican.

Don’t try to move the goalposts.

More dismissiveness, not based in logical arguments.

Swing. Miss.

massrighty on July 8, 2009 at 10:19 PM