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Ace’s “special comment” on Palinistas

posted at 2:15 pm on July 6, 2009 by Karl
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Edited only slightly, so there will be some profanity:

It’s this insane idea that if you want something to happen, you will also of course agree that it will happen, and if you don’t agree it will happen, obviously you don’t want it to happen.

In other words, if you’re cheering for one side, you must of course believe that side will win, and if you suggest our side won’t win, well, gee, you must be cheering against us.

It’s insane. I wanted the Giants to win against the Eagles in the playoffs, but I predicted they’d lose, because the Eagles had their number and they were coming apart at the seams. They did lose, for the reasons I guessed (I think). That did not mean I wasn’t “on their side,” I’ve been on the Giants’ side all my life.

But there is a mentality in the nutroots that if you dare to post a poll showing Republicans down and say “we’re in trouble, we need a game-changer,” well, that means you’re secretly rooting against our side.

And if you say that Fred Thompson isn’t catching on as hoped, well, you hate Fred Thomson.

And if you do not believe that Sarah Palin has some double-secret probation plan for the presidency, you must hate her too, and you’re rooting against her, and cheering for the other side.

This is fucking insane and it must stop. I will not be bullied by this ludicrous magical thinking brigade who insists that only Nice and Positive Words must be uttered or else one is contributing one’s Evil Energy to the Wrong Side.

It’s insane.

I disagree with you. I have tried to do so pleasantly but I am tired of the imputation of bad motive simply because I am more realistic and less prone to flights of hopeful fancy than you.

If you think I’m wrong, say so. I do not mind being called wrong. I do, however, greatly mind being called a traitor, of harboring a secret agenda I hide from you in order to advance the MSM’s interests, etc., and all the rest of this insane bullshit.

Someone can be wrong honestly, without the need of claiming he’s wrong dishonestly, wrong because he’s actively intending to subvert the cause (so he can of course get invited to these famous DC dinner parties, etc.)

Stop jumping to claim some one is not just wrong but actively malicious.

It’s insane. It’s fruit fucking loops. and it’s tiresome.

And I do think I am taking off the week. You guys only seem to want to talk about Sarah Palin and furthermore you only want to hear the same thing — she’s running, this is a great move, she’s now perfectly poised for the race, etc.

It’s nonsense. And I hardly need to blog about it, because you all seem to know the words to the song. So you don’t need me as part of the chorus. You can sing the same words well enough without me.

I am really tired of this relentless nonsense and occasional nastiness whenever someone is believed to have departed from the conservativey correct line.

To anticipate some of the responses that comments like this have already generated, for the purpose of this discussion, I really do not care what Ace wrote about Palin’s resignation, any more than I care about what Ed Morrissey wrote about it, any more than I care about the advice Jonah Goldberg was offering Palin before her announcement. I can disagree with any part or all of their opinions without irrationally jumping to the conclusion that they hate Palin, or have thrown in their lot with David Frum and Colin Powell.

Indeed, I can point out what I think are some of the flaws in Goldberg’s piece. He overstates how much Palin has been out of Alaska since the election, while understating the degree to which her profile these days has been dictated by David Letterman, Vanity Fair’s Todd Purdum, and disgruntled McCain campaign officials dragging her (and her daughters) into the spotlight. But consider some of the over-the-top reactions against Goldberg’s writing and person when the piece was linked here at HotAir (Obviously, not all of the critical comments were over-the-top, but if you read them all, you’ll find a fair number of them). To grasp how off-kilter some of the vitriol was, consider that Goldberg argued that Palin can match Romney’s ability to talk policy if she wants to, but Romney will never have Palin’s charisma. How that qualifies as heresy eludes me. The notion that Goldberg is somehow “blowing up the conservative movement” by stating his opinion also seems to impute to him influence far beyond that which he actually has (and I would say the same of Charles Krauthammer, let alone a handful of conservative bloggers).

As for her resignation, my analysis would be closer to that of Mark Halperin than Ace or Ed. But I can disagree with them on Palin’s future prospects while utterly agreeing with Ace’s comment about Palin’s most rabid supporters, who are probably doing her no favors. I suspect that some of the reasons the Left has a special loathing for Palin are the same reasons why some on the Right seem to have an absolutely blind love for her. Should she decide to run for president, the Left will likely enjoy the prospect of using her most devoted followers to highlight her most polarizing qualities.

Granted, the knee-jerk defense of Palin is also a product of the sheer volume and bile of the attacks on her from the Left. But the unfair attacks of the Left will not go away, so long as Palin remains in politics. Nor do those unfair attacks justify unfair attacks by Palin supporters against others on the Right who have supported Palin, or simply called the balls and strikes as they saw them. It is possible to be mistaken without being evil.

Finally, consider this from R. A. Mansour’s profile at Conservatives4Palin:

Make no mistake, the beating she took during the campaign was wounding. She’s not as confident as she once was. You can see it in the difference between her pre-campaign interviews and her post-campaign interviews. There’s a stuttering nervousness about her now. She’s trying to get back on her game.

That could be read more than one way. Presuming that Mansour did not intend to paint Palin as someone who can be beaten down by the likes of Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson, it suggests that Palin recognizes that she needs to raise her game to meet The Narrative likely to be built against her — should she seek a national leadership position. If so, Sarah Palin and Jonah Goldberg really are not all that far apart.

Addendum (Ed): Sarah Palin is not an issue.  Sarah Palin is not a political principle.  Sarah Palin is a politician.  If her supporters demand no criticism of a politician, they risk turning Palin and her supporters into nothing more than a cult of personality, the kind we derided with Barack Obama.  And it does our friends no favors if we see them going over a cliff and remain silent, or worse yet, cheer them to go faster.

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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I’d like to repeat my “kneejerk” analysis.

My take is that she is going to come out swinging. Now that she doesn’t have to worry about what she says as a governor, all those anal orifices that have dumped on her will get what they give. Except that it will be more subtle and will cut deeper.
GOP RINOs had better dot their “i”s and dot their “t”s. The ‘Cuda is coming, and she’ll be kickin’hiney and takin’ names.
She’ll be brushing up on “international affairs.” By 2010.5 she’ll have the equivalent of a Phd. in current events.
She’ll take the Katie Courics to school, and Rinos to the woodshed.
Tough? You ain’t seen $#!+.
davidk on July 3, 2009 at 6:21 PM

But if she instead turns to being a mother, wife, and homemaker exclusively, God bless her; it will be America’s loss.

davidk on July 6, 2009 at 2:46 PM

A great conservative website would be one devoted entirely to everyone of the dems mistakes, corruption, bonehead remarks, physical appearance, status of their bank accounts, what they drive, where they live and just an all around TMZ accounting of democrats…..Maybe then there would be less honing of the republican party by the right (?).

I am surprised that the right blogs aren’t pretty much supporting all of the GOP frontrunners at this point.

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Before anyone deifies her, realize she’s a politician. That means at the end of the day she has more in common with Obama than different.

frankj on July 6, 2009 at 2:42 PM

Dude, they even left Bush’s family alone.

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:47 PM

I’ve read too many articles that argue that those of us who do not support Palin in 2012 (or those who think she made a mistake) are the enemy of conservatism. Such arguments are pure poppycock.

Yes, Palin fires up the base. But if all you have is a candidate who fires up the base, you have a latter-day Barry Goldwater — a great man (or woman) with great ideas who will get trounced in the general election.

What you need is a candidate who fires up the base and attracts the confidence and support of another 25-35% of the American public. I don’t think Palin can do that in 2012. Does that make me the enemy of conservatism? Even if I think Palin may be the right answer in 2016 or 2020, provided she burnishes her credentials and image in the interim?

Frankly, too many Palinistas sound like cultists in their willingness to declare those who question her wisdom or electability — think Scientologists or last year’s supporters of Ron Paul if you want to understand how such over-the-top devotion is seen by the rest of America.

RhymesWithRight on July 6, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Reagan didn’t quit because he had nothing to quit. He had been out of the CA governorship for years when he ran for President. He also had no one calling his daughters sluts, his sons retards that should have been aborted, or had people trying to bankrupt him by making every penny-ante “ethics” charge they could. Reagan also did not have a 24/7 cable/internet media trying to destroy him every possible second.

That said, we cannot eat our own over her. Her supporters (me included) have been forced to watch and respond as people on both the left and right assault this woman. A hair-trigger response mechanism to cope with it is understandable. BUT, criticism of a decision or a position IS NOT the same as wishing her harm or personal destruction.

SCSoxFan on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Bravo, Karl!

Buy Danish on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

My my, not only does Sarah Palin incite rage and frothing effluvia from the left, she drags alleged conservatives into the fray for some much needed soul searching and some.. flesh rending.

EVEN when she resigns her office.

This Woman so scares the piss out of the Lay-z-boy recliner republicans and the drones of the DNC that practical, almost virtual civil war has broken out.

See why I love her?

/makes note to send her some more money.

44Magnum on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Dude, they even left Bush’s family alone.

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:47 PM

Not exactly. The Bush daughters drinking got major attention.

darii on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Fine.. get banned. See if I care.. or anyone else as someone recently GOT banned due to it.

Have a nice life.

Banned for referencing a Chris Rock comedy sketch?

LMAO.

What do you think this is, Little Green Footballs?

Luckily, Ed & Allah have a sense of humor and actually possess the intellect to differentiate between sarcasm and racism.

You sound like a flippin’ Obama supporter.

Have a dull life, ya prat.

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Everyone can have their own opinion as to whether her quitting is a good thing or not. As for all of you ‘conservatives’ who don’t want Palin to run for President, who can you convince to run in her place – who will uphold conservative principles once they are elected? We had a whole lot of non-conservatives the last round and we see how that worked out.

The problem is, I haven’t seen too much constructive criticism going on with regards to Palin. Let’s see anyone of you put up with the she has – day-in and day-out and see where you stand. It is my understanding that she has more than $500K in legal bills from all these frivolous lawsuits they keep bringing. Now she can setup a legal defense fund that she was unable to do will being the governor.

Sporty1946 on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Wow. So Ace hates Fred AND Sarah?

Kasper Hauser on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

You sound like a flippin’ Obama supporter.

Have a dull life, ya prat.

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Spoken like a true idiot.

upinak on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

I happen to like Palin very much, but there’s no doubt what we saw this weekend in these threads was the exact same thing seen during the hunt for a VP for weeks on end in comments..

It’s ugly, it looks 2 dimensional, it is cult of personality to the core, and it actually harms the politician’s credibility. Guys & gals acting tough shooting off one liners to anyone who dares even as raise the level of discussion to anything but ‘I am ready to martyr myself for Palin.’ Suddenly everyone is a troll outside the echo chamber.

I will tell you flat out as someone who has no bone whatsoever on the issue looking in from outside, you look like clowns & when you rip the bloggers Ed or Allahpundit for no reason other than to feel better about your clown nose, my blood really boils.

saus on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

If Palin doesn’t get the nomination in 2012 for whatever reason, are her fans going to be so bitter and jaded that they turn on whoever is the nominee?

Doughboy on July 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM

No, but I refuse to vote or support any candidate who has been dirty dealing and I believe Romney and his supporters have been doing just that. However, Allahpundit claims that he did not vote at all in 2008 because he would not vote for McCain. So, please – no more double standards for bloggers as oppose to bloggees. Go lecture him.

Blake on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

the issue here is that the conservative critics of Palin aren’t thinking through what happened. Put yourself in Palin’s shoes for crying out loud. Financially and otherwise, she couldn’t govern under these circumstances.

Combine that with the fact these conservative ‘critics’ are essentially touting the Democrat line on Palin for all practical purposes and helping destroy her politically(which she had no chance of surviving staying in office under these circumstances), instead of defending the insanity she was force fed through, how dangerous that is to our Political Culture and how they were ruining her financially and otherwise.

This is a modern day Witch Hunt, a burning at the political stake by the MSM and Democrats against Conservative values.

This whole episode, is a Cultural Civil War and its foolish to not recognize it for what it is.

jp on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Not exactly. The Bush daughters drinking got major attention.

darii on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Minor compared to what Palin was put through right out of the gate.

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Predicting a loss is one thing. Pissing in your teams water cooler during the game is quite another.

I think Palin is refreshing. She is what she is. Her worst times were when the RNC experts in campaigning tried to remake her into something she wasn’t. Sometimes during a political campaign it’s just better to keep your mouth shut.

roux on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

That was edited? And you chose to leave the F word? What did you take out? Nevermind I probably don’t know what it means.

I actually hadn’t read the Jim Geraghty article before and it is spot on. Accept for one point. I don’t think Sarah is an anomaly. I think people are happier… if they make the kind of life choices Sarah has made.

It isn’t that she is the exception to the truth of liberalism it is that she is the truth about liberalism.

Being an “enlightened” liberal is a miserable existence precisely because it so limits your choices as to how to get happy again.

Conservatives are happier because they have all the choices still open to them. They didn’t limit their lives with false choices that enslave them.

At anytime Sarah could still take the liberal way out of her life… dump the family for the career… make choices that benefit her but not her husband and family… pretend that her own fulfillment is separate from those she loves… but she doesn’t and that brings happiness.

Yes that probably motivates both sides to like her and hate her.

But that doesn’t mean she has what it takes to lead the free world. She might. I just don’t know yet and all the hype makes it harder, not easier to figure it out.

petunia on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Wow, the Giantts/Eagles analogy is a classic Ace! As if the winner of a football game is determined by the number of fans one has!

[Knee jerk on]
Public opinion is everything, and the Republicans WILL fail.
[/Knee jerk off]

Oh how I hope they do. :-)

dtestard on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

But then, the GOP has trashed everyone who speaks for the GOP, even the head of the RNC. LOL* So I suppose this is just how it goes when a party is in disarray.

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Hey, did you guys hear Michael Jackson died?!

/runs and hides behind couch

Wyznowski on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

She didn’t quit, her opponents made it impossible for her to stay and be an effective governor. Her agenda was blocked by a legislature that wasn’t going to let her make a name on their backs, and she was going to continue to be assaulted by phony ethics charges. There is nothing to suggest that she couldnt stay in office and simply punch the clock for the next 18 months. But why should she when all she’d have to show for it at the end would be some headaches and a massive legal bill?

Nat Hound on July 6, 2009 at 2:38 PM

Agreed. It may not seem, or be, politically wise, and that is extremely unfortunate, but maybe, just maybe, it was a selfless act and was indeed best for the state and her family. If she was able to get things done and be effective, I think she would have toughed it out. But attacks on her children coupled with ineffectiveness? It just wasn’t worth hanging around. And this stuns many of us, of course, but then it is a rare thing, seeing a politician, perhaps, doing something not in his or her political best interest, but in the best interests of the people. We’ll see.

XWing5 on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Oh no, the bloggers FEELINGS have been hurt.

Grow a pair bro, then get back to us. (To Ace and Ed)

Criticize her decisions all you want, it’s a free world and your (MM’s) blog.

But don’t cry when commenters criticize your analysis (premature, may I add).

omnipotent on July 6, 2009 at 2:39 PM

I have never figured why these guys would get upset about people commenting on there posts. Afterall they control who can comment and they can close comments anytime they want. They can also ban people for whatever reason they want.
What is the purpose of having a comment section. do you really want see page after page of ‘that a boy’.

Here is an idea, just go full charles johnson and go through the comments and ban all of these so called palinistas.

kangjie on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

It would be different if the Democrats were put through the same level of insanity and lawsuits, but as we all know there is a huge Double Standard at work.

jp on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

A lot of Palin’s appeal consists of getting the people in the hinterlands to sympathize with her for being detested by those very “elites” who they believe detest them.

The resentment that drives her supporters shuts down the debate before policy questions even come up.

Here are excerpts from the letters sent to Jonah Goldberg after his ridiculously mild criticisms of Palin:

How about you go back to your basement apartment and shut the f**k up. Maybe study up on the fact the nobody gives a rats a** what you think about Palin.

media elites like yourself whine and whine, blah, blah, blah, about how palin “whines” in a commentary…then, at the next cocktail party you will get all kinds of bravo’s jonah, from the rest of the members of the “club”

Well what a piece of s**t that uninformed letter was. You’ve just humiliated yourself beyond repair. You have no f**king idea what you’re talking about…Yeah, that’s correct…those people in “fly over country” who actually choose who they want to run.

aengus on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Spoken like a true idiot.

Way to prove me wrong.

Pray tell, does your race card come laminated or does the Kinko’s do it free of charge?

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

AMEN Ace. As I said before, the Palinistas are no better than the Obamabots. Thinking she took a misstep is not equal to wanting her to fail. I have no idea how people can be so fanatical to think this is the case.

sluhser589 on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

JR is exactly right.

Alaskans have all sorts of weird hang-ups about “outside” and even which end of the state (Mat-Su Valley vs. Juneau)you’re from. Throw national partisan politics into the mix and you see why she never could go home after the campaign and have it be as it was.

Nat Hound on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Minor compared to what Palin was put through right out of the gate.

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

This is true.

darii on July 6, 2009 at 2:51 PM

Minor compared to what Palin was put through right out of the gate.

Not even an fair comparison.

Palin was crucified during the campaign.

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:51 PM

Sarah Palin is not an issue. Sarah Palin is not a political principle. Sarah Palin is a politician. If her supporters demand no criticism of a politician, they risk turning Palin and her supporters into nothing more than a cult of personality, the kind we derided with Barack Obama. And it does our friends no favors if we see them going over a cliff and remain silent, or worse yet, cheer them to go faster.

+1000.

portlandon on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:30 PM

Ed? Allah? Banstick?

MadisonConservative on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

Conservatives pride themselves on personal responsibility.

How responsible is it to abandon an elected office in the middle of one’s term?

Lost in all this discussion is the difference between right and wrong. Barring personal catastrophe, Palin resigning in the middle of her term is wrong.

B26354 on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

I mentioned various times, from the beginning, that Palin leveled some huge attacks on The Precedent and his junta, indicating where she was headed and why. It was clear and obvious, but you will have to search far and wide among the (complaining) pundits’ posts to find them even discussing that, though it was a major part of her speech.

progressoverpeace on July 6, 2009 at 2:37 PM

It’s entirely possible that they’re dismissing them because they don’t find them relevant to the discussion.

Probably. But that is exactly the sort of poor analysis that I am talking about.

Even with that, many who are criticizing her don’t see those are legitimate reasons to stand down and have said so.

Esthier on July 6, 2009 at 2:41 PM

Those weren’t the main reasons to leave the governorship, but they figured into the decision and indicated what she wants to do. She explained the main reason (her inability to effectively govern due to outside attacks) and also explained that she had fulfilled her policy promises from the campaign. Alaska moves on, seamlessly, with her Lt. Gov. and she goes to work on much more pressing problems that our nation is facing and that she might actually be effective in fighting against.

Now, whether she ends up able to do something is yet to be seen, but it shouldn’t have too difficult to understand this situation.

I would add that her use of the “lame-duck” argument was a bit of a non-sequitor that she should have been left out (I really think she meant something different from “lame-duck”) but that was a minor part. Instead, many focused on that as if it was the meat of the argument.

progressoverpeace on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

Trying to decide what is the difference between being called a Palinista (if you support her) or a traitor if you don’t. What shoe are some wearing?

Limerick on July 6, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Alaskans have all sorts of weird hang-ups about “outside” and even which end of the state (Mat-Su Valley vs. Juneau)you’re from. Throw national partisan politics into the mix and you see why she never could go home after the campaign and have it be as it was.

Nat Hound on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

Out “hang ups”? First, where is Juneau compared to Wasilla? Do you know? Do you understand?

It isn’t the “outside” it is the fact you assume and then look like an idiot when you say one thing and I have to correct you.

It is like asking about Chicken Alaska. Why is it called Chicken?

upinak on July 6, 2009 at 2:53 PM

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:30 PM

That’s Magic Negro to you.

The Race Card on July 6, 2009 at 2:53 PM

makes note to send her some more money.

44Magnum on July 6, 2009 at 2:48 PM

Which site is legit. I’d like to contribute, too.

/s/ davidk aka 18″ 870

davidk on July 6, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Blake on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

So basically it is really all about Romney? That’s just more weirdness from the Palin people. The two have nothing whatsoever to do with each other. That kind of thinking is just counter productive in the extreme.

petunia on July 6, 2009 at 2:53 PM

I am surprised that the right blogs aren’t pretty much supporting all of the GOP frontrunners at this point.

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Ann, you commented that the party should not ’split’ at this time…..the party is already split, you have conservatives that believe in small govt, lower taxes, and then you have rinos, republicans that like to bend over and spread their cheeks for the dems and the media so that they are still liked. We have a split and you have two sides to the party……this is the fight that we will take into 2010 and 2012, so that we don’t get another bend over candidate like mccain.
Sarah represents one of the conservatives, but I still want to hear ALL her stances on issues, not one’s that were dictated by the mccain fiasco.
But, we need to worry about 2010 first.

HornetSting on July 6, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Good post Karl! Let’s get this all out of our system and get back to focusing on Obama.

darii on July 6, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Good for Ace, AP, and Ed.

Amen, Amen, and Amen.

I am a Palinista (I suppose), and hope she does run. I’m perplexed, naturally, but I’m trying to be focused on being a conservative American by principle – despite my fav POTUS hopeful.

The epic Palin HA thread this weekend was a good time, but dayum…we all need a f**king break.

I mean…out current POTUS is liking Putin’s balls, ignoring abuses to democracy in Iran while denouncing soverignty in Honduras in favor of socialist totalitariansm. He’s ignoring the Norks, and forcing the Israelis to honestly contemplate starting WW3.

And Christ…Jacko threads are just more fun at this point (b/c at least he is a real freak of nature).

I want a better America, even if that means dragging Golda Meir’s f**king bones out of the ground, granting her US natural-born citizenship status and sending her zombie ass out to punish the Obama f**ktards’ agenda with a vengeance not seen this side of a Brice Campbell movie (Bruce!)

If its not Palin, it’s SOMEBODY….ANYBODY…ALL OF US.

G-ddammit…just take the f**king country back any way we can, one inch at a time.

/gotthatoffmychest…Palin 2012

bluelightbrigade on July 6, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Pray tell, does your race card come laminated or does the Kinko’s do it free of charge?

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

She’s not black, and she’s right that people have been banned for that. You can either take the advise or not, but you’ve no reason to get into battle with her over this.

Esthier on July 6, 2009 at 2:54 PM

Ed? Allah? Banstick?

MadisonConservative on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

But he said “please.”

The Race Card on July 6, 2009 at 2:54 PM

I thought you said that you were going to ignore me?

progressoverpeace on July 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Apparently, I should have.

MadisonConservative on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

aengus on July 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM

You think they represent all mail he got , or did he just pic the worst so he could whine like a victim?
You know , Palin is never allowed to defend herself or her family like the thin skinned pundits always does..

the_nile on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Fred!, Allen!, Coulter!, Rush!, Beck! Palin!

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

OK, so if we follow the desires and advice of Ed, Ace and AP, we will only post our opinions of their opinions if our opinions are not counter to their opinions about their opinions. They can be wrong about Palin without being evil, but we can’t be wrong about them without being evil. I think I got it.

Remember guys, just because you are parinoid does NOT mean they are not really out to get you.

MikeA on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

The Race Card

Lol.

Did a bunch of prudes on this site lose their sense of humor?

Since when is referencing a well known Chris Rock comedy sketch a call for banning?

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Which site is legit. I’d like to contribute, too.

Her legal defense fund is here: The Alaska Fund Trust

Pablo on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Hopefully Ace isn’t in danger of jumping off the same cliff that claimed Charles at LGF.

World B. Free on July 6, 2009 at 2:23 PM
Funny. In the same thread the author of this post quotes, Ace complains about being “bullied” on his own blog and vows not to blog for a week. Hopefully he’s getting some needed RnR.

james23 on July 6, 2009 at 2:26 PM

I stopped reading Ace’s blog a while ago. No doubt in my mind that he will eventually turn into another Charles Johnson nutcase, it’s just a matter of time. Hopefully Allah won’t follow the same path.

Palin supporters are not “rabid” or “cultish”. If that was true, then 75% of the GOP are cult members. This tiresome meme is usually perpretated by people who support another candidate and seem to envy the fact that Sarah Palin gets all the attention.

The only pundits I trust regarding Sarah Palin are Levin, Limbaugh and Beck. These three command a far larger audience among Americans than the rest of the “Oh-my-god, Palin is done” punditry crowd.

Norwegian on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

But then, the GOP has trashed everyone who speaks for the GOP, even the head of the RNC. LOL* So I suppose this is just how it goes when a party is in disarray.

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Rebuilding for the war, ann. Growing pains. Getting back to basics, Ann.

HornetSting on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Even though they have generated much traffic this week, Ed Allah and Ace may have damaged their brands somewhat.

The question is, how do they recover? Backpedal? Call half their readers “Palinistas” or “cultists”?

faraway on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

How many times will this strawman be offered?

People don’t have a problem with the criticism. It’s the juvenile analyses that bother people.

progressoverpeace on July 6, 2009 at 2:17 PM

It’s not a strawman if it is true. There is decidedly an element of Palin’s support that reacts like juveniles whenever the support isn’t 100%. Far too many Palin supporters demand the rest of us support her- WITHOUT QUESTION OR CRITICISM.

Ed is right. This isn’t a personality cult and Palin isn’t an issue or political principle. She is a human being and a politician which means she has her flaws and weaknesses too. It is absurd, particularly in 2009, to be squelching any sort of criticism of a woman who hasn’t even declared her intentions beyond resigning latter this month.

To Palin’s unrelenting cadre of supporters I would say that you are missing the mark. Right now, the focus needs to be on taking back the Congress from the left and restoring some of the checks and balances that have been decimated under this evil regime. Then, after the mid-terms in 2010, there will be time enough to see if Palin emerges as a valid candidate for high office (if that is what she is looking to do) or if some other candidate better fits the needs of the nation, party, and times. In other words is Sarah Palin the right person to fix Obama’s messes? At this point I think the answer is a resounding NO! It does you no good to call me names for pointing out the obvious- that Palin is not ready for primetime as the top of a ticket for President. Instead, I would suggest you get a sense of reality and understand that Palin is not the last best hope for the GOP. It remains to be seen if she will even be relevant by 2012.

highhopes on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

A great conservative website would be one devoted entirely to everyone of the dems mistakes, corruption, bonehead remarks, physical appearance, status of their bank accounts, what they drive, where they live and just an all around TMZ accounting of democrats…..Maybe then there would be less honing of the republican party by the right (?).

nondhimmie on July 6, 2009 at 2:43 PM

I got BringItOn.org, so lets do it.

WoosterOh on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

People don’t have a problem with the criticism. It’s the juvenile analyses that bother people.
progressoverpeace on July 6, 2009 at 2:17 PM

Are you kidding me? Did you read all the comments from loony Palin supporters who called Ed (and commenters) a “traitor” for various and sundry reasons – all of which were insane?

Buy Danish on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Palin!

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

smiles and TBOD. Dude you are cracking me up earlier.

upinak on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Ann, you commented that the party should not ’split’ at this time…..the party is already split, you have conservatives that believe in small govt, lower taxes, and then you have rinos, republicans that like to bend over and spread their cheeks for the dems and the media so that they are still liked. We have a split and you have two sides to the party……this is the fight that we will take into 2010 and 2012, so that we don’t get another bend over candidate like mccain.
Sarah represents one of the conservatives, but I still want to hear ALL her stances on issues, not one’s that were dictated by the mccain fiasco.
But, we need to worry about 2010 first.

I’m starting to sense this, but I guess it’s the same in both parties, really.

Progressives versus moderates versus blue dogs. Same stuff.

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Since when is referencing a well known Chris Rock comedy sketch a call for banning?

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

There’s a number of things he’s said which would violate the ToS of this site. Grow up.

MadisonConservative on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Heard Palin’s been twittering away… True?

Upstater85 on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Maybe so, but Firebird didn’t offer anything of substance except blind faith in a woman most people only heard about for the first time less than a year ago.

[Esthier on July 6, 2009 at 2:45 PM]

Maybe, but I didn’t see blind faith there, unless taken in the context of that comment alone, not knowing anything else of events, or for that matter, still, after almost a year, not knowing anything of Palin.

As I see it from Palin (and team) comments, Palin has a plan and maybe, just maybe, leaning towards reticence in comments/criticism would be the better part of valor, not to mention a) shown to be wrong in one’s snap judgment and b) making it more difficult for the plan to succeed.

Dusty on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Conservatives pride themselves on personal responsibility.

How responsible is it to abandon an elected office in the middle of one’s term?

Lost in all this discussion is the difference between right and wrong. Barring personal catastrophe, Palin resigning in the middle of her term is wrong.

B26354 on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

She would have resigned to be VP. She resigns later to pursue a “higher calling”. How is any of that “wrong”?

littleguy on July 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM

Heard Palin’s been twittering away… True?

Upstater85 on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

haven’t seen one lately.

upinak on July 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM

the_nile on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Jonah gave some positive emails too. His email probably looks as bad as anyone’s. The left calls him pantsload.

gh on July 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM

I would add that her use of the “lame-duck” argument was a bit of a non-sequitor that she should have been left out (I really think she meant something different from “lame-duck”) but that was a minor part. Instead, many focused on that as if it was the meat of the argument.

progressoverpeace on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

It was more than a non-sequitor. It ruined so much of her argument, and made it seem like she was cutting and running.

I get the rest of what you’re saying, and I’d support her in her attacks against the president. And yet, I think the GOP would have gained far more from someone with her talents and a thicker resume.

That’s actually what’s upset me most about this. As a two term governor (that would have been my preference) who’d studied up a bit, I feel she would have been nearly impossible to beat.

It’s not impossible for her to win now. It’s just going to be harder.

Esthier on July 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM

Has anyone considered that perhaps the Right pressures Palin as much as the Left does? I’m convinced she’ll run for President…but what if she truly hasn’t decided that yet? What if she just wants to BREATHE for a moment without being pulled in 200 different directions (from the Left who want to destroy her and the Right who are now mounting pressure to “run” or to justify her actions, or who now express ‘disappointment’ in her, etc, etc.)

I think we should give her a chance to regroup inside the bomb-shelter, then come back out when she’s ready-to do what she feels she needs to do. And whether that’s running for President, or eating chocolate and ice cream all day long while playing with Trig…support that and move on.

LiquidH2O on July 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM

But then, the GOP has trashed everyone who speaks for the GOP, even the head of the RNC. LOL* So I suppose this is just how it goes when a party is in disarray.

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

Rebuilding for the war, ann. Growing pains. Getting back to basics, Ann.

HornetSting on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Exactly, HS.

Ann…conservatives have standards.

you know, that think that liberals basically run like hell from.

Sometimes, when people lose sight of those standards, they need to recalibrate.

It’s like fixing the a broken pull on a keg…we just want a proper flow.

bluelightbrigade on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Anyone else not see the Cultural Civil War this all represents?

IMO, the Palin’s could call together their own troops if they wanted to. I would have a hard time not knocking Letterman on his rear if I came in contact, I don’t know how Todd manages honestly

jp on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Up, if AKs don’t have hang-ups about outside, then why did Ramras go nuts on RAM last week, telling her essentially to butt out because she was from CA?

My understanding from 4,000 miles away, is that the Juneau crowd never warmed to Sarah, in part because of the long standing Mat-Su/Anchorage rivalry with Juneau over the location of the capital. (Juneau is a couple hundred miles southeast of Wasilla.)

We’re on the same team here…

Nat Hound on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Even though they have generated much traffic this week, Ed Allah and Ace may have damaged their brands somewhat.

The question is, how do they recover? Backpedal? Call half their readers “Palinistas” or “cultists”?

faraway on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

Let me say this, if there is even one iota of doing this for traffic then they have absolutely no right to complain about what the MSM does for ratings, like non-stop coverage of Michael Jackson.

AP once told me everything he writes here is his true opinions and I take him at his word.

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Having come from the great Hillary Vs. Obama wars, I can predict here this leads. *haha

Not pretty!

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Typical Palin, Romney, Huck, Fred thread….it is nothing more than a ‘your mama’ fight.

Limerick on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

MadisonConservative

Grow a sense of humor.

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

The Race Card
Lol.

Did a bunch of prudes on this site lose their sense of humor?

Since when is referencing a well known Chris Rock comedy sketch a call for banning?

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Do we seem like big Chris Rock fans to you? I mean I don’t know if I’ve ever heard one of his routines… so some context is important considering you audience.

petunia on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Sounds like Ace quit, could not take the heat, or the criticism. I guess Ace now knows what Palin feels like.
WoosterOh on July 6, 2009 at 2:32 PM

When did Ace run for office?
Esthier on July 6, 2009 at 2:37 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++++
What the hell does running for office have to do with it? He put himself out there in the public/political arena and offered opinions. Oops, other people had their own opinions about his opinions. That’s the way it works in the arena. He’s a crybaby who couldn’t take his own medicine.

fabrexe on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Those of you throwing the word “cult” around have little sense of human nature.

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

She would have resigned to be VP. She resigns later to pursue a “higher calling”. How is any of that “wrong”?

littleguy on July 6, 2009 at 2:58 PM

I’d say that even the Left Stream Media couldn’t take that as far as they’ll take any book deals… Further, the reason for which she resigned would have been crystal clear (she was becoming VP). The reason as to why she actually resigned is far from clear.

Upstater85 on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

upinak on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

How is this going over in AK?

Think Palin would’ve done this without Parnell waiting in the wings?

jp on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Grow a sense of humor.

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

We’re all still trying to laugh at TrigTrooferism jokes, but we just can’t find the “humor…”

Upstater85 on July 6, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Do we not want someone, ANYONE, that is not afraid to drop bombs on obama’s facade of lies and dreams of fascism by speaking out loud??

If this woman can bring obama & his ilk down just one notch, in any way shape or form by speaking actual truth, in plain terms, to plain people LIKE ME, then who cares about all the snobby credentials.

The obama freak train is moving 100+mph, killing our country’s pride and economy with every minute that passes; he demeans us at every turn. His visage makes me want to vomit; and everyone acts scared of him. He is not my master – He is not my boss. I’ll take anyone who expresses true love of country over him any day.

obama does not own this country….WE DO. If Sarah is the mouthpiece to speak for me that I hate his stupid juvenile fantasy-land policies, then so be it. No one else has the balls thus far to do anything but bitch and moan. I WANT HIM GONE.

Ris4victory on July 6, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Heard Palin’s been twittering away… True?

Upstater85 on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

Palin always “Twitters away”. I get more texts from her that my best friend! :p But alas, I haven’t seen her write anything today. Probably dealing with the fallout of this whole situation.

LiquidH2O on July 6, 2009 at 3:01 PM

The problem is this, WE on our side, are so ready to right about ONE of our OWN when we disagree with what they have said or what they have done.

AND that in turn IS USED my the LEFT and the MSM to prop up there arguments against the RIGHT.

Example
Powell
Frum
Palin bashing from our side

I love the fact that if you don’t follow the SET MOLD in how to run for President, then you have become an IDOT.

I would love to see as many people defend Palin, no wait not Palin she can take it, but her family, defend her family with the same fortitude as speaking out against her. I hear people say she is whining about the attacks on her family, was Obama whining when he said his family was off limits.

this stuff makes me sick and want to slap some body.

kara26 on July 6, 2009 at 3:01 PM

To Palin’s unrelenting cadre of supporters I would say that you are missing the mark. Right now, the focus needs to be on taking back the Congress from the left and restoring some of the checks and balances that have been decimated under this evil regime. Then, after the mid-terms in 2010, there will be time enough to see if Palin emerges as a valid candidate for high office (if that is what she is looking to do) or if some other candidate better fits the needs of the nation, party, and times. In other words is Sarah Palin the right person to fix Obama’s messes? At this point I think the answer is a resounding NO! It does you no good to call me names for pointing out the obvious- that Palin is not ready for primetime as the top of a ticket for President. Instead, I would suggest you get a sense of reality and understand that Palin is not the last best hope for the GOP. It remains to be seen if she will even be relevant by 2012.

I agree. But let me get my public option in before you do that. :)

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Which site is legit. I’d like to contribute, too.

/s/ davidk aka 18″ 870

davidk on July 6, 2009 at 2:53 PM

Here ya go.

http://www.thealaskafundtrust.com/

44Magnum on July 6, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Ace, Ed, and Allahpundit, you can speak your mind about Palin again just as soon as you have been through the same amount of public defamation she has.

This is the lunatic standard that Palinistas expect other conservatives adhere to.

So, according to this statement, as long as the left spews irrational hatred at Palin and defames her no one on the right is allowed to criticise her at all unless they can fully empathise with her personal pain.

It’s the Fairness for Palin Doctrine.

aengus on July 6, 2009 at 3:02 PM

AP once told me everything he writes here is his true opinions and I take him at his word.

TheBigOldDog on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

That is more that I can say AP (well, ED, Ace and a host of others) has done for Palin.

WoosterOh on July 6, 2009 at 3:02 PM

Firebird’s up there saying we should just trust Palin. What is that if not trying to stifle criticism of what she’s done?

Esthier on July 6, 2009 at 2:29 PM

This is outright misrepresentation and a straw-man. I don’t mind if people provide constructive criticism — I despise the repeating of MSM memes as fact, that Palin must be harboring a scandal, or her speech was pure babble, or that she left too many things unclear. This is pure b.s.

Douthat’s piece today parroted the same nonsense, and the Palin critics cheered — “it was a balanced piece.” What a crock.

Richard Romano on July 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Are you kidding me? Did you read all the comments from loony Palin supporters who called Ed (and commenters) a “traitor” for various and sundry reasons – all of which were insane?

Buy Danish on July 6, 2009 at 2:56 PM

So this is what it was like when the Left’s “Bush Lied” meme started? Some trolls showed up and used the word “traitor” and the same group of people here keep repeating it over and over.

faraway on July 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM

This “quitting” meme is getting tiresome.

I’ve quit several jobs–to go on to better jobs. President of the United States or Mother and Wife, she’s got my support.

And you haven’t heard about any of her accomplishments from the MSM. DUH!

We’ll hear where she stands as she goes around supporting genuine conservatives. And her kids? They’re as tough as their Mom. And Todd–don’t piss him off.

davidk on July 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Is this “Ace” going through some kind of midlife crisis? I just read, well scanned as a body can only take so much, his red-faced outburst and sundry ramblings and it sure sounds like it. It is deeply saddening that a man who had once been a fighter pilot and shot down five or more airplanes in a single day has now declined to the point where he sounds like he is ready for the, how do I say this politely, the “Happy Home”.

MB4 on July 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Maybe, but I didn’t see blind faith there, unless taken in the context of that comment alone, not knowing anything else of events, or for that matter, still, after almost a year, not knowing anything of Palin.

Even if we’d known her a decade, this is unprecedented and looks bad. It’s even worse when you consider that “unprepared” and “not qualified” were the most effective complaints against her in the election.

As I see it from Palin (and team) comments, Palin has a plan and maybe, just maybe, leaning towards reticence in comments/criticism would be the better part of valor, not to mention a) shown to be wrong in one’s snap judgment and b) making it more difficult for the plan to succeed.

Dusty on July 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM

And it’s precisely point B, that is the most offensive. That we should just shut up, because talking might hurt her, is honestly, beyond silly. If her plan can’t take heat from her own side, gentle as this heat is, then it’s one doomed to fail anyway.

We ridiculed Biden when he said Obama would do something stupid that would make his supporters question their support of him and that they should just trust him anyway. I still support that ridicule, even when the target is someone on our side.

Politicians are just people. And they can’t be surrounded by “yes men” all the time. It’s bad for them and bad for the country.

Esthier on July 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM

Barring personal catastrophe, Palin resigning in the middle of her term is wrong.

B26354 on July 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM

So was getting elected to the US Senate and then immediately starting your campaign for the White House but the Chicago street thug got a pass and won the election. I’m not interested in moral equivilencies here but which is worse- Leaving your office 18 months early with a clear succession plan in place or ignoring your Senatorial duties for over two years so you can stump for higher office before you’ve even completed on third of your term of office?

highhopes on July 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM

You’re still equating “juvenile” (or wrong) with some sort of malicious intent…that anyone who comes up with this “juvenile” analysis is guilty of subverting conservatism intentionally.

Thats paranoid delusion.

ernesto on July 6, 2009 at 2:22 PM

This.

Asher on July 6, 2009 at 3:03 PM

But then, the GOP has trashed everyone who speaks for the GOP, even the head of the RNC. LOL* So I suppose this is just how it goes when a party is in disarray.

AnninCA on July 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM

That’s what happens without true leadership. I suspect many GOPers are scared of her potential to fill that void,..so they tear her down and the turmoil created by the vacuum continues. She represents change. Many of the over the top Palinista responses are due to frustration this is happening.

a capella on July 6, 2009 at 3:04 PM

My understanding from 4,000 miles away, is that the Juneau crowd never warmed to Sarah, in part because of the long standing Mat-Su/Anchorage rivalry with Juneau over the location of the capital. (Juneau is a couple hundred miles southeast of Wasilla.)

We’re on the same team here…

Nat Hound on July 6, 2009 at 2:59 PM

Nat, Juneau is what many call LIBERAL VILLE! Most do not even want the Capital in Juneau… yet there it Stays due to the Legilsotrs. I even have proof that it was “shut down” by them in 82. But I digress.

Ramras was outted and took it out on RAM. He is a sleaze… you and I know this via the conversation.

But what is interesting that when the Nation began to notice Alaska… the people in politics changed. Changed in ways that were not FOR Alaskans or Alaska but so they would get “noticed”. That kind of bothers many up here.

Also it is the fact that when someone on the outside tells Alaskans to do it this way… we look at them like “WYF” and ask them how it would work since they have never lived up here.

Alaska is VERY rural… we don’t have the same stuff you all have down there. I am being nice to many on here. But if ANY of you EVER come to Alaska.. I would be proud to show you around… and show you the REAL Alaska… not the crap you see on TV. It isn’t easy up here.

upinak on July 6, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Grow a sense of humor.

You-Eh-Vee on July 6, 2009 at 3:00 PM

It’s not about US growing a sense of humor when you have TV shows and other left wing blog sites who patrol these comments looking for any little thing they can take out of context. That could be just the nugget they are looking for

kangjie on July 6, 2009 at 3:04 PM

So, according to this statement, as long as the left spews irrational hatred at Palin and defames her no one on the right is allowed to criticise her at all unless they can fully empathise with her personal pain.

It’s the Fairness for Palin Doctrine.

aengus on July 6, 2009 at 3:02 PM

They can criticize, but fairly and honestly — not simply repeating false stories and accusations and representations.

Richard Romano on July 6, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Ace was wrong about Obama not winning the election when he beat Clinton in the primary.

What do you expect when these so-called “conservative blogs” attack her 24/7. Her supporters do what they must do defend her from morons.

jdun on July 6, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Addendum (Ed): Sarah Palin is not an issue. Sarah Palin is not a political principle. Sarah Palin is a politician. If her supporters demand no criticism of a politician, they risk turning Palin and her supporters into nothing more than a cult of personality, the kind we derided with Barack Obama. And it does our friends no favors if we see them going over a cliff and remain silent, or worse yet, cheer them to go faster.

Straw man argument here from Ed.

A.) I don’t think anyone demands there be no criticism (other some freepers, maybe).

B.) To define “Is her career over. YES” as simply “criticism” is a bit of a stretch.

JMO

kevinkristy on July 6, 2009 at 3:05 PM

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