Honduras to OAS: Pound sand, take 2

posted at 10:15 am on July 4, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The Organization of American States has threatened to suspend or expel Honduras if it doesn’t immediately reinstate deposed president Manuel Zelaya, kicked out of the country after the legislature and the Supreme Court demanded his arrest.  Acting president Roberto Micheletti has called the OAS bluff, according to Xinhua, the Chinese news agency (h/t Steven G):

Honduras’ interim government announced Friday that the country decided to quit from the Organization of American States (OAS).

In a letter to the OAS read by Honduras’ Vice Minister of International Relations Martha Lorena de Casco, it said “This government believes that inside the organization (of the OAS), there is no room for Honduras, for the states that love its freedom and defend its sovereignty.”

The reading of the letter was made in presence of Honduran Acting President Roberto Micheletti.

The government in Tegulcigalpa says they will not negotiate Honduran sovereignty.  That comes at a price, though.  The poor nation relies on OAS aid as well as OAS-influenced support from other nations.  By withdrawing from the regional assembly, Honduras will lose hundreds of millions of dollars they desperately need, especially in this economy.

However, it seems more than odd that the OAS has made such a fetish out of Zelaya while they’re preparing to admit Cuba, with its military junta firmly in place for the last 50 years.  After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did — the legislature and the courts have solid grounds on which to remove him.  And while the military conducted the arrest and the extra-legal expulsion of Zelaya from his country, they did not seize power and install a military junta.  Instead, they followed the orders of the civilian government, which retained political power all along.

If Cuba belongs in the OAS, then Honduras belongs as well, and on their own terms.  If the OAS and the Obama administration want to defend democracy, they should stop isolating the democracy that fumbled the legal and justifiable removal of a renegade executive and focus on the dictatorship in Havana.


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doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Thanks. Michelle is CinC of his new civilian army. Interesting. Hope Ed does a whole thread on it.(btw Maybe they should practice the open homosexuality idea in that army first.)

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:48 AM

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:41 AM

The LAST census was far too intrusive.

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:50 AM

Is it me, or are people really coming down on Ed and AP here lately? Even when you disagree with them….sheesh….they’re good guys and on our side!

bikermailman on July 4, 2009

All of a sudden Ed and AP are untouchable? None of us are spared when we spout ignorant crap. Why should they be?

SKYFOX on July 4, 2009 at 11:52 AM

they should practice the open homosexuality idea in that army first.)

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:48 AM

You can count on it. Nothing like unleashing radical aggressive vindictive bitter gay rights activists with their warped sense of entitlement to persecute the world starting with whoever they bear a grudge against.

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:53 AM

The VP candidate has to be Constitutionally elegible, which a two term former president would not be.

myrenovations on July 4, 2009 at 11:48 AM

I did not know that.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Now I know where to escape to when Acorn comes for me…….

TwinkietheKid on July 4, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Viva Honduras and butt out Barry.

Mojave Mark on July 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM

That’s worth carrying a poster to tout.

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:56 AM

All of a sudden Ed and AP are untouchable? None of us are spared when we spout ignorant crap. Why should they be?

SKYFOX on July 4, 2009 at 11:52 AM

Because, if you haven’t noticed, they have a different status here than the rest of us. Is it that hard to understand that being rude to your host is bad form? I’m sure neither of them mind disagreement, but a lot of people go way too far.

capitalist piglet on July 4, 2009 at 12:02 PM

Butt Out Barry

it works on every level

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 12:02 PM

Ed, I have to disagree with your characterization of Zelaya’s removal as “botched.” The use of the military was a necessity, given that they were the only ones capable of such an operation. It was quick, clean, and bloodless. There was never any military control of the country. Indeed, the entire operation was done under the laws of the country. There’s nothing to criticize… and a lot to admire, including their refusal to bow to external socialist pressure.
Just because it wasn’t an “American-style” operation or it didn’t conform strictly to our idea of what’s legal doesn’t make what they did wrong. It’s their country, their laws, and they followed those laws to the letter. Good for them!

n0doz on July 4, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Yeah, Go Pound Sand too Barry!

BigMike252 on July 4, 2009 at 12:06 PM

SKYFOX on July 4, 2009 at 11:52 AM

Never said they were untouchable. It just seems like people are piling on all of a sudden.

The piglet above has a good point. You want to call your host a moron, go over to AoS. They love it! :P Of course, be prepared to be called a moron back…

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 12:08 PM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM
doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Thanks. From my news reading, I was able to figure out the legal circumstamces, that this is not a military coup, and Zelaya shouldn’t be re-installed by outside force.

How can Americans show our support for Hondurans?

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Anyone want to sell Barry a clue? Namely that his foreign policy SUCKS! But then, what do you expect in promoting a ‘community organizer’ several steps above his competency level. Another prime example of “The Peter Principle”.

GarandFan on July 4, 2009 at 12:10 PM

“extra-legal”, “botched”? why must everyone go out of their way to appease the elites?

I say they did a brilliant job and acted courageously. And now withdrawing from the OAS? I must say I’m now overwhelmed and truly supportive of this little country that is setting such an important example.

exceller on July 4, 2009 at 12:13 PM

The mouse that roared.

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 12:15 PM

How can Obama have any opinion on Honduras; The tele-prompter doesn’t understand what’s going on.

Cybergeezer on July 4, 2009 at 12:16 PM

WOW, a country that actually enforces its constitution!
I’m envious.

Amendment X on July 4, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Is it me, or are people really coming down on Ed and AP here lately? Even when you disagree with them….sheesh….they’re good guys and on our side!

bikermailman on July 4, 2009

I for one find it reprehensible that ‘our side’ should take a position that securing your own country’s liberty under your own country’s laws is in ANY WAY considered extra-legal or botched. I truly respect Ed but sometimes he supports legal process over higher moral principles such as freedom. I feel it necessary to take issue with that attitude and I don;t think I’m going over the top in my protestations.

JonPrichard on July 4, 2009 at 12:23 PM

The larger crime remains,

WHERE ARE THE REPUBLICANS AND THE LEADERSHIP in support of Hondurans?

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM

“..even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did”

How Ed…..explain this? He should have lost citizenship if the law was to be strictly followed.

RobCon on July 4, 2009 at 12:33 PM

isn’t it great that they just withdrew from the OAS. i wish we could just withdraw from the UN.

kelley in virginia on July 4, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Dees leetle countree’s got cojones; More dan Obama and his worshippers.

Cybergeezer on July 4, 2009 at 12:39 PM

After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did…-Ed

Well I suppose they could’ve had a sniper do the dirty work from a grassy knoll, alas, these immature freedom loving constitutionalists have no grasp of how realpolitik works.

“Let’s Roll”

On Watch on July 4, 2009 at 12:53 PM

I continuously see posters here and elsewhere wonder if our “Democracy” will survive, or, if we will remain a “Democracy”

The United States is NOT, and NEVER has been a “Democracy”. Not understanding how your Nation was established, and how it is structured makes it that much easier for the Left to bamboozle you and snatch your Freedom and Liberties away.

The evidence of that is happening all around you. Now, for some edification, an old man (Me) is going to give you a concise description of what the U.S.A. is. BTW, they actually used to teach this stuff in schools, that’s where I learned it.

Here comes the good part:

The United States of America is a Constitutionally established Federal Republic with a Representative Government based on Democratic principles and grounded in Common Law.

24 words. Learn it, learn to say it, learn to explain it.

For those of you that do not understand what any of this means, take that as a clue to invest some personal time for educating yourself. It will mean more to you. Oh, and actually reading The Constitution can be enlightening as well, yes, it is available online.

Happy Birthday to the United States of America!

mrpeabody

mrpeabody on July 4, 2009 at 1:04 PM

So—WHERE ARE THE CONSERVATIVE VOICES SPEAKING UP FOR THE RULE OF LAW?
OH, I FORGOT, THEY ARE ALL TRYING TO BE NICE.
I AM DISGUSTED WITH THE LOT OF THEM.

woodswalking1 on July 4, 2009 at 1:10 PM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Hear, hear! Plus “ochlocracy” is the word of the day!

CK MacLeod on July 4, 2009 at 1:17 PM

mrpeabody on July 4, 2009 at 1:04 PM

Thank you Sir. You are spot on with that.

An let me say that in view of the keeping of that Republic, there are other things to consider besides allowing the mobs to rule us. For example THIS

MikeA on July 4, 2009 at 1:24 PM

Look for products made in Honduras. Support the Honduran people. Buy Honduran.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 10:21 AM

If the effort to isolate Honduras continues, I’m going to boycott nations that are boycotting them.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 1:27 PM

Well I suppose they could’ve had a sniper do the dirty work from a grassy knoll

That was some darn good shootin’.

guntotinglibertarian on July 4, 2009 at 1:33 PM

After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did

That’s about the third or fourth time you’ve made that claim, Ed, care to try to back up your allegation with some facts? The only basis I can imagine for it is that you are upset that their constitution doesn’t function identically to ours in every aspect. In that respect Honduras may have “botched” it, but that respect is absurd since we aren’t twins. In reality their constitution served it’s purpose very well, perhaps better than ours might should we ever be confronted with similar circumstances.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 1:34 PM

After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did

Ed thinks they should have sent Girl Scouts to do the job; from a PR standpoint, using the military was just too butch.

guntotinglibertarian on July 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM

After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did — the legislature and the courts have solid grounds on which to remove him.

They didn’t “botch” Zelaya’s removal, he miscalculated his own coup. The Supreme Court removed him from office using the below Article 239 from the Honduran Constitution.
Article 239 — No citizen that has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President.
Whoever violates this law or proposes its reform, as well as those that support such violation directly or indirectly, will immediately cease in their functions and will be unable to hold any public office for a period of 10 years.

He violated the law by trying for a special referendum to extend his term in office.

moonsbreath on July 4, 2009 at 1:44 PM

Maybe its time to move to Honduras…they seem to still get that its better be poor and free, than be a rich slave.

Conservative Voice on July 4, 2009 at 1:46 PM

Maybe what Ed means by “botch” is that from his position as an armchair quarterback with the benefit of hindsight, anything that Honduras did that doesn’t comport specifically with “what Ed would have done”, is a botch.

But it seems more likely that Progressoverpeace is probably right, that Ed is trying to defend his initially incorrect assessment of the situation.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 1:48 PM

Now I know where to escape to when Acorn comes for me…….

TwinkietheKid on July 4, 2009 at 11:54 AM

No kidding. It will be nice to get a taste of freedom again.

Daggett on July 4, 2009 at 1:55 PM

Go Honduras! We stand with you on our own Independence Day!

KSgop on July 4, 2009 at 2:00 PM

The bullies are taking over the world. Including us.

Alana on July 4, 2009 at 2:26 PM

I am just outraged at Obama’s position on this issue.

How dare he.

Liberals always complain about how conservatives are Yankee imperialists who try to impose their will on the states of Latin America.

Yet just like everything else they are projecting their own arrogance.

All Obama needed to do was keep his mouth shut-

Sackett on July 4, 2009 at 2:32 PM

All Obama needed to do was keep his mouth shut-

Sackett on July 4, 2009 at 2:32 PM

If he did that, then he wouldn’t be in the headlines – and he simply cannot live without being the center of attention.

Rusty Bill on July 4, 2009 at 2:43 PM

I think the idea that this was “illegal” in any way, is, at the very least, subject to debate.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0702/p09s03-coop.html

Octavio Sánchez, a lawyer, is a former presidential adviser (2002-05) and minister of culture (2005-06) of the Republic of Honduras.

I imagine that the guy knows what he is talking about.

johnnymozart on July 4, 2009 at 2:45 PM

But it seems more likely that Progressoverpeace is probably right, that Ed is trying to defend his initially incorrect assessment of the situation.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 1:48 PM

We all make mistakes. I tend to think he’ll eventually be retracting his categorical criticisms of the Palin resignation, too.

In his defense, it can’t be easy trying to be the voice of reason in this madhouse!

CK MacLeod on July 4, 2009 at 3:00 PM

Honduras should take this chance to set up their own Hong Kong on the Caribbean. Slash taxes, free up trade and stick their middle finger up to all anti-liberty global/regional organizations.

scoromastel on July 4, 2009 at 3:16 PM

Hasn’t anything to do with democracy as far as this FAR LEFT Administration is concerned, however it has everything to do with ideology and we know it to be socialism to which this country is just waking up to this fact.

larvcom on July 4, 2009 at 3:26 PM

I was stationed in Honduras for 6 months in 1989. We did a lot of humanitarian work then. Do the still have a US military presence there?

rspock on July 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM

Wuoldn’t it be great if the US followed Honduras’ lead,showed some intestinal fortitude and dropped out of the UN?

DDT on July 4, 2009 at 4:10 PM

breaking

Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya has confirmed to a television news station that he will return to his country on Sunday, and do so with “several presidents” of allied countries.

“I am planning my return to Honduras… we will arrive at the international airport in Tegucigalpa, Honduras with several presidents, (and) members of international organisations,” Zelaya told Caracas-based station Telesur on Saturday.

William Amos on July 4, 2009 at 4:17 PM

isn’t it great that they just withdrew from the OAS. i wish we could just withdraw from the UN.

kelley in virginia on July 4, 2009 at 12:34 PM

+1! Flush the UN.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Obama’s reaction was entirely predictable. From the twenty years in the pew listening to Rev Wright you knew what Obama’s position would be not matter how pretzel shaped.

But the Republican position? I’m more outraged by their failure of leadership at such a critical juncture. Is their silence to be interpreted that they to think it was a coup? Do they also want the constitution overthrown so Chavez can spread his murder and mayhem? Is that the picture I’m not seeing?

We can waste our time ranting against Obama who does not give a rat’s ass what we think or we can turn our attention toward the folks who claim they are with us–the Repubs.

We need to demand an answer from the leadership.

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 4:46 PM

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 4:46 PM

Some republicans have made strong statements in support of Honduras, but as for the rest, whether it’s because the press hasn’t been reporting it or beltway insiders don’t consider this a pressing issue, there seems to be a veil of silence. It’s disappointing to me, too, and gives me a sense of foreboding about our future, that America no longer stands on the right side of history.

I think part of it is that a lot of people just aren’t interested. Fox News barely covers it, that I’ve seen, and even Rush hasn’t given it nearly as much attention as I think is worthy.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 4:54 PM

The worse thing about Fox’s coverage is that they don’t seem to care that the AP articles they keep linking to are left wing propaganda reinforcing Obama’s efforts to railroad our decades long ally, Honduras.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 5:00 PM

n0doz on July 4, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Well said. At least Honduras is trying to do things democratically. Most of the rest of Central and South America participate in the Socialist/Marxist Dictator of the Month Club.

Sporty1946 on July 4, 2009 at 5:18 PM

All Obama needed to do was keep his mouth shut-

Sackett on July 4, 2009 at 2:32 PM
If he did that, then he wouldn’t be in the headlines – and he simply cannot live without being the center of attention.

Rusty Bill on July 4, 2009 at 2:43 PM

I’m trying to go the entire day to day without hearing the voice of The One. An Independence Day of sorts.

petunia on July 4, 2009 at 5:54 PM

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Some republicans have made strong statements in support of Honduras, but as for the rest, whether it’s because the press hasn’t been reporting it or beltway insiders don’t consider this a pressing issue, there seems to be a veil of silence. It’s disappointing to me, too, and gives me a sense of foreboding about our future, that America no longer stands on the right side of history.

I think part of it is that a lot of people just aren’t interested. Fox News barely covers it, that I’ve seen, and even Rush hasn’t given it nearly as much attention as I think is worthy.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 4:54 PM

I think the problem is that when it happened most of us were not really up to speed. I was confused, when Obama took the same side as Chavez I was pretty sure he was on the wrong side but it is hard to figure out what happened and what side to take.

How many of us ever give any thought to Honduras on a daily basis.

petunia on July 4, 2009 at 5:57 PM

How many of us ever give any thought to Honduras on a daily basis.

petunia on July 4, 2009 at 5:57 PM

True enough but the Repub leadership should know better. If and thankfully it is still a big if, the situation spins out of control Honduras will be a much bigger problem than Iran. Iran is a soap opera of 30 years. Honduras on the other hand will be a civil war that will envelop Nicaragua, Venezuela and probably El Salvador and Guatemala.

We will be sucked in or forced to watch a replay of the 70′s and 80′s where 100,000′s were killed and tortured.
Chavez means to bring down all of Central and South America. There is no amount of murder and mayhem Chavez and Ortega will stop at.

There is just no excuse for the lack of a very clear statement from the leadership. Only a miracle will make this problem go away peacefully. Tomorrow on the tarmac will be the first chapter.

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 6:19 PM

According to this article, the Honduran constitution represents a hypersensitivity against the president-for-life machinations which became a South and Central American political artform:

These are the facts: On June 26, President Zelaya issued a decree ordering all government employees to take part in the “Public Opinion Poll to convene a National Constitutional Assembly.” In doing so, Zelaya triggered a constitutional provision that automatically removed him from office.

Constitutional assemblies are convened to write new constitutions. When Zelaya published that decree to initiate an “opinion poll” about the possibility of convening a national assembly, he contravened the unchangeable articles of the Constitution that deal with the prohibition of reelecting a president and of extending his term. His actions showed intent.

Our Constitution takes such intent seriously. According to Article 239: “No citizen who has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President. Whoever violates this law or proposes its reform [emphasis added], as well as those that support such violation directly or indirectly, will immediately cease in their functions and will be unable to hold any public office for a period of 10 years.”

Notice that the article speaks about intent and that it also says “immediately” – as in “instant,” as in “no trial required,” as in “no impeachment needed.”

I for one would like to see a knowledgeable rejoinder to this Honduran’s constitutional argument before accepting Ed’s legal analyis. Meanwhile, as one has come to expect in this Alice-in-Wonderland political world, a term limits provision with teeth gets turned on its head by the world political establishment. Whatever could explain that?

Barnestormer on July 4, 2009 at 6:25 PM

Above link repaired, sorry.

Barnestormer on July 4, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Fumbed the removal? According to whom, a bunch of people outside Honduras who didn’t like the way Honduras managed its own affairs? Good to see Ed is joining Obama in the ranks of “Honduran constitutional & legal experts”.

jarodea on July 4, 2009 at 7:21 PM

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 6:19 PM

Well, at least we got Jim DeMint:

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) has come out in support of the military coup against leftist Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, and he criticized President Obama for opposing it: “I am hopeful that as President Obama grows in office, he will eventually turn away from despots like Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Castro, and Zelaya, and give the United States’ full-throated support to the people of any country who are fighting for the same values we cherish and defend in America.”

Maybe DeMint could find some other Republicans to join him in a statement of support if he asked around. There are probably some Repubicans who want to say something but can’t get the message out. The media couldn’t ignore a statement signed by several Republican Congressmen.

You’d think the GOP would have some kind of blog where we could keep up with their concerns and announcements on issues. The RNC would never build it because they would worry about message control. Only Michelle Malkin could get that done.

Buddahpundit on July 4, 2009 at 7:36 PM

I think the problem is that when it happened most of us were not really up to speed.

petunia on July 4, 2009 at 5:57 PM

True, neither was I, but I was fairly well up to speed by the end of the first day. Our media doesn’t have that excuse. Many of them support Zelaya because they share an ideology. But Fox News, instead of continuing to promote their propaganda, should be doing their own objective reporting and informing the public what’s really going on there.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 7:38 PM

Buddahpundit on July 4, 2009 at 7:36 PM

However it’s done, American’s need to be made aware of the truth and of Obama’s support for dictators in the region against our own allies. That this wasn’t done by now, our Independence Day, is disheartening. Even if American’s aren’t interested in the region, Obama’s support of tyranny is itself a major story, at least.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 7:48 PM

Legal won’t taste so sweet then.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Excellent point.

-Dave

Dave R. on July 4, 2009 at 9:00 PM

Sounds like Obama.

Wade on July 4, 2009 at 11:18 A

Right you are.

-Dave

Dave R. on July 4, 2009 at 9:19 PM

Ed,

I certainly hope I don’t have to remind you that this nation’s rebellion against King George III wasn’t exactly legal, either.

If we were to apply your apparent standard to that time and place in our history, you would be typing your articles here at HA with a decidedly British accent.

-Dave

Dave R. on July 4, 2009 at 9:22 PM

Dave R. on July 4, 2009 at 9:22 PM

I say, steady on there. old chap. What, pray, is wrong with an English accent? :)

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 9:46 PM

On this, our 233rd Independence day…I am appalled at the dismissing of the rule of law in a small representative democracy within our own hemisphere by our government.

Instead of standing shoulder to shoulder with the people and government of Honduras, we are allowing the thugs to take over. Tomorrow morning, Zelaya is scheduled to arrive in “Teguch”…and then we will see exactly where this Administration, this Congress, stands when a free people are threatened by a Leftist thug.

God speed, Honduras. We all can learn a lesson from your valiant efforts.

coldwarrior on July 4, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Here is where Honduras “botched” it: they should have impeached him instead of kicking him out of the country. Had they done that the technicality, which the whole world is using to warble about a “coup,” would have been non-existent. Lesson to Honduras: impeach; try; arrive at a verdict; if the verdict is guilty, boot the sucker out!

SilentWatcher on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 PM

By the same token, given the contents of the Honduran constitution, every government in the region, excepting the Castroite-Chavezite ones, should be supporting them for upholding the rule of law. The only problem for them is that glitch in their ejection procedure. Obama is a communist with a disdain for democracy and the American Constitution. Do NOT expect him to support any nation’s democratic process or to seek to uphold any nation’s constitutional laws. DO expect him to overset ours, as he is in the process of doing. So, let us support Honduras. Let us also take to the streets and protest EVERY unconstitutional move the Obama has made (firing GM’s CEO, for instance) and will make. He has used and is using Alinsky against us. Let us use Alinsky against him.

SilentWatcher on July 4, 2009 at 10:31 PM

On second thoughts, let us not use Alinsky against him lest we become as he is—communist, disregarding of the Constitution, despotic and tyrannical. Let us use the Founders, the Federalist Papers, the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence against him. Therein lies the path to our restoration of freedom, to our American exceptionalism, to us being: “a Constitutionally established Federal Republic with a Representative Government based on Democratic principles and grounded in Common Law.” (mrpeabody @ 1:04 PM)

SilentWatcher on July 4, 2009 at 10:35 PM

they actually used to teach this stuff in schools, that’s where I learned it.

I am a certified teacher, elementary through high school. Up until the mid 70′s I taught a class called “Americanism vs Communism” I doubt that the course would be allowed today. If I still taught Government it would be a nightmare trying to justify all the contridictions between the constitution and current reality. Since I would teach it as it is; I am sure that I would make someone unhappy.

Franklyn on July 4, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Can a two-termer run again – after a hiatus? (I’m thinking of Obama’s wife, here).

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Amendment 22
1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice,
and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for
more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President
shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this
Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President, when this
Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may
be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term
within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of
President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

darwin-t on July 4, 2009 at 10:59 PM

Here is where Honduras “botched” it: they should have impeached him instead of kicking him out of the country.

SilentWatcher on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 PM

How was it not impeachment?

Would affixing a familiar American label to the process have altered the reality of what Honduras did? It might have helped alleviate Ed’s superficial concerns, but the truth of the matter wouldn’t have changed. By American standards, aside from the absence of the “impeachment” label and some relatively inconsequential procedural differences, that’s precisely what they did, “impeach” him, but Zelaya refused to leave office. This forced their Supreme court into the fray, which ruled against him, and he still refused to back down. Finally the military was called in to force his compliance.

The process worked regardless of what it’s called. That it doesn’t work exactly like ours is immaterial. What’s important was the result.

Ed shouldn’t be so smug that our procedures regarding these matter are somehow superior to Honduras’. They may be, but they’ve never been tested so we can’t possibly know. Honduras has already passed this test with flying colors, and while that may not be surprising considering their experience with dictators in the past, that is also why we should learn from their experience and not malign them with false allegations that they somehow “botched” the job based on superficial technical comparisons to our own system.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Note to Honduras: Every paragraph, if not every sentence regarding Zelaya, should include the word “impeachment”.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 11:14 PM

What do you know, Fox News has another Associated Press piece on their web site. Gee, thanks Fox News….

Secretary General Jose Miguel Insulza asked the organization Saturday to punish the de facto government by suspending the country from the organization.

If I had the authority, I would expel this piece of sputum from our shores.

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 11:29 PM

FloatingRock on July 4, 2009 at 11:29 PM

Secretary General: OAS Fails to Reinstate Zelaya

So what was the vote? Since we are all subjects under the rule of this mysterious ruling body, aren’t we entitled to know how they voted?

As for the constitutionality of the circumstances involving the removal of Zaleya, I think there is something in the Honduran Constitution that makes Ed and SilentWatcher higher authorities than the Honduran Supreme Court on the matter. It’s known as the “Morrisey/SilentWatcher Ultimate Authority Clause” in Honduran law parlance…if I’m not mistaken.

Buddahpundit on July 4, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Ed, you’re disappointing me here, on two very big points:

1) The fact that you don’t like the way the Hondurans handled this does not mean they “botched” it. If what they did was in accordance with their constitution, then the rule of law prevailed. That is what’s important

2) We don’t need to promote just “democracy.” Read the Federalist Papers. The Founding Fathers quite clearly didn’t trust democracy. Pure democracy all too easily leads to some individual gathering all power to himself. This situation in Honduras is a perfect illustration of the danger of emphasizing democracy above a constitution. If Zelaya had successfully ignored the Honduras constitution, subverted the legislature, ignored the rulings of the Supreme Court, and distributed his referendum, he might very well have become the dictator he wanted to be without ever stepping outside of democracy. By following their constitution, the Honduras stopped him cold.

Now, it may well be that the Honduras constitution could be improved somewhat here, with provisions for imprisonment of the president in such cases and a vote for impeachment. Regardless, that’s not how their constitution reads now. Further, as I understand it, this particular section of the Constitution can not be amended in any way. That restriction is to prevent it being amended in such a way as to allow a president to avoid his term limits.

Frankly, the Honduras have the U.N., the U.S. State Department, and the OAS aligned against them already. They deserve better than the media coverage they’ve been getting.

ThereGoesTheNeighborhood on July 5, 2009 at 12:08 AM

Ed: they did not botch the removal of Mel Zelaya. Their constitution has no impeachment clauses. It does however allow their Supreme Court to use the Military to enforce the removal of the President.

opusrex on July 5, 2009 at 12:41 AM

Does anybody know if the Honduras Army is used to enforce domestic law?
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Hang tough Honduras freedom loving people everywhere support you.

darktood on July 5, 2009 at 2:20 AM

What do you think Obammy and Hugo talk about in those tender post-coital moments?

guntotinglibertarian on July 5, 2009 at 2:26 AM

Ed, Americans don’t want to think about Hondurans & Iranians now. Like who are they anyway? We’re too busy BBQing the burgers & worrying about an entertainer’s pervert’s funeral.

jarhead0311 on July 5, 2009 at 8:29 AM

I say, steady on there. old chap. What, pray, is wrong with an English accent? :)

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 9:46 PM

Nuthin’ if you are in England.

-Dave

Dave R. on July 5, 2009 at 9:18 PM

I sent off an email to Fox sharply criticizing their “news” coverage and general format. It has been annoying me for some time now. Sad that it is still the best thing going tho. I say everybody here should burn up the server with complaints. Oh yeah, I also implored them to can Geraldo. What a tool.

Jamewah on July 5, 2009 at 11:24 PM

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