Honduras to OAS: Pound sand, take 2

posted at 10:15 am on July 4, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The Organization of American States has threatened to suspend or expel Honduras if it doesn’t immediately reinstate deposed president Manuel Zelaya, kicked out of the country after the legislature and the Supreme Court demanded his arrest.  Acting president Roberto Micheletti has called the OAS bluff, according to Xinhua, the Chinese news agency (h/t Steven G):

Honduras’ interim government announced Friday that the country decided to quit from the Organization of American States (OAS).

In a letter to the OAS read by Honduras’ Vice Minister of International Relations Martha Lorena de Casco, it said “This government believes that inside the organization (of the OAS), there is no room for Honduras, for the states that love its freedom and defend its sovereignty.”

The reading of the letter was made in presence of Honduran Acting President Roberto Micheletti.

The government in Tegulcigalpa says they will not negotiate Honduran sovereignty.  That comes at a price, though.  The poor nation relies on OAS aid as well as OAS-influenced support from other nations.  By withdrawing from the regional assembly, Honduras will lose hundreds of millions of dollars they desperately need, especially in this economy.

However, it seems more than odd that the OAS has made such a fetish out of Zelaya while they’re preparing to admit Cuba, with its military junta firmly in place for the last 50 years.  After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did — the legislature and the courts have solid grounds on which to remove him.  And while the military conducted the arrest and the extra-legal expulsion of Zelaya from his country, they did not seize power and install a military junta.  Instead, they followed the orders of the civilian government, which retained political power all along.

If Cuba belongs in the OAS, then Honduras belongs as well, and on their own terms.  If the OAS and the Obama administration want to defend democracy, they should stop isolating the democracy that fumbled the legal and justifiable removal of a renegade executive and focus on the dictatorship in Havana.


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Good for Honduras. You make a good point about the disparity between responses levelled against Cuba and Honduras. I don’t know why people are making such a big deal about a would-be dictator like Zelaya.

Wellsy on July 4, 2009 at 10:17 AM

“This government believes that inside the organization (of the OAS), there is no room for Honduras, for the states that love its freedom and defend its sovereignty.”

Remeber when the US loved its freedom and defended its sovereignty?

Good times.

myrenovations on July 4, 2009 at 10:18 AM

Hang tough Honduras . . . never yield to that gaggle of communist bastards.

rplat on July 4, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Good for the acting President of Honduras. Now that’s leadership. Something we do not have right now in this Country. I’m starting to wonder if we even have a Constitution and democracy anymore with this clown in office.

suzyk on July 4, 2009 at 10:19 AM

Ed, Americans don’t want to think about Hondurans & Iranians now. Like who are they anyway? We’re too busy BBQing the burgers & worrying about an entertainer’s funeral.

jgapinoy on July 4, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Can we have him for a while after he is done protecting freedom and sovereignty in Honduras?

RalphyBoy on July 4, 2009 at 10:20 AM

Look for products made in Honduras. Support the Honduran people. Buy Honduran.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 10:21 AM

I never thought I’d see the day when Honduras was schooling everyone on freedom.

Thunderstorm129 on July 4, 2009 at 10:22 AM

Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did

That’s quite a claim Ed. Exactly how are the actions ‘botched’ when they were carried out in accordance with the Honduran Constitution, which has no formal impeachment proceedings via their Congress?

Seems like you side with Obama in making the claim these actions were ‘extralegal’ which is the same as illegal. Please explain to those of us who admire free people securing their own freedom, how the Hondurans ‘botched’ the exercise of that freedom in accordance with their laws.

JonPrichard on July 4, 2009 at 10:23 AM

Hugo Chavez all for the Fairness doctrine

Diosdado Cabello, a top aide to President Hugo Chávez, said the government would revoke the licenses of 240 radio stations across the country. Mr. Chávez has also threatened to shut down Globovisión, a television network critical of his rule. Mr. Cabello cited incomplete tax payments and improper regulatory filings as reasons for canceling the licenses, but he also criticized the control of radio stations exercised by elite families, declaring a need to “democratize spectrum use.”

William Amos on July 4, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Leftist always stick together. Meanwhile, AP is still trying to figure out what that crafty Obama has up his turban to deal with this situation.

Howcome on July 4, 2009 at 10:24 AM

Obama and his ACORN ilk are petrified that the American people will wake up and do it to him too. Way to go Honduras.

jaimo on July 4, 2009 at 10:25 AM

After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did

No, they didn’t.

the legislature and the courts have solid grounds on which to remove him. And while the military conducted the arrest and the extra-legal expulsion of Zelaya from his country,

It was legal. Period.

If the OAS and the Obama administration want to defend democracy,

Who wants to “defend democracy”? This is about constitutionalism, not “democracy”. But keep using the wrong term as you try and split hairs with how incorrectly you believe Honduras to have acted … Sheesh.

they should stop isolating the democracy that fumbled the legal and justifiable removal of a renegade executive and focus on the dictatorship in Havana.

They didn’t fumble anything. The only reason that Honduras is having problems is because morons like The Precedent incorrectly declared those who fended off a coup to have committed a coup – because The Precedent and his administration are a bunch of despicable, lying scumbags who don’t know jack.

Ed, that’s 3 times you have tried to sully Honduras in order to defend your, incorrect, initial assessment that the government had perpetrated a coup.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

And stop bleating about “democracy”. That is a trap that The Precedent and his buddies, who are into ochlocracy, are setting, in their attempt to have popular referenda trump constitutionality, or any sort of written law. That is the framework of a savage society and you should know better.

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Just last year we would have been on the right side of this. And a lot of other things.

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 10:29 AM

At some point in the last six months I crossed through some inter-dimensional portal into Bizarro World.

“Us do opposite of all American things! Us hate liberty! Us love tyranny! Is big crime to make capitalist profit in Bizarrobama World!”

warden on July 4, 2009 at 10:30 AM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Thank you for putting it neatly and succinctly.

But please don’t be too hard on Ed. (smile)

Happy 4th of July!

mz.josephine on July 4, 2009 at 10:31 AM

good

rob verdi on July 4, 2009 at 10:35 AM

After all, even if the Hondurans botched the removal of Zelaya — and they did

Evidence? Or is this even required anymore? The dude violated the constitution – and was firing people who didn’t comply with him. It was a crisis and the Congress and Supreme Court and the military acted appropriately.

This is not a “botch”.

HondaV65 on July 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM

William Amos posted a video from CNN last night that showed the military shooting the tires of buses bringing in the rent-a-mobs. I guess I shouldn’t call them that since I have not proof, somebody sue me. No coverage of any pro-democracy citizens. And as usual our president is backing Zelaya and telling Columbia to go forth and multiply. Got to love him.

Cindy Munford on July 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM

This is not a “botch”.

HondaV65 on July 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM

I think the suggestion is that he should have been arrested and jailed, not sent out of the country. I wonder if in retrospect they would agree?

Cindy Munford on July 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Once Sarah becomes president America will welcome Honduras again and do all we can to kick out Chavez and isolate Cuba once again.

izoneguy on July 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM

This is an ideal opportunity for the Obama Administration to do the right thing and support the Honduran people and their right to self-determination, and their defense of their Constitutional government.

Too many people are transposing the details from our Constitution onto the Honduran people and accusing them of impropriety, while defending Zelaya, a power-mad Chief Executive, who was working (with the aid of Chavez) to circumvent the Honduran Constitution.

The details of the situation don’t support the continued charges that this was a military coup. It wasn’t. The US government should acknowledge that fact and support the Honduran people in this mess. We’ve got plenty of leverage with the OAS, our efforts there should be on the side of the Honduran people.

cruadin on July 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM

HA was mocking Rush for worrying about the releal of he 22nd Amendment too. But this a*hole has been jumping to support dictators at each opportunity. Does anyone really think that he is destroying this country so that he can turn it back over the the Republicans to undo everything (as if they c/would)?

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Wouldn’t it be nice to have our people make the Goverment stand behind the Constitution?

“O” Dumbo ears would be on the unemployment line also!!!

Rick007 on July 4, 2009 at 10:40 AM

JonPrichard on July 4, 2009 at 10:23 AM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM

AMEN –
Ed Morrisey Faux intellectual, Faux Conservative

allahallahoxenfree on July 4, 2009 at 10:41 AM

I think the suggestion is that he should have been arrested and jailed, not sent out of the country.

Cindy Munford on July 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Zelaya was given that option and chose to leave the country.

mz.josephine on July 4, 2009 at 10:31 AM

Ed’s coming along … slowly.

Happy Independence Day!

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:42 AM

JonPrichard on July 4, 2009 at 10:23 AM

More importantly, how can we do the same thing here? Oh..and include all of Congress in that as well :)

Wolftech on July 4, 2009 at 10:45 AM

I think the suggestion is that he should have been arrested and jailed, not sent out of the country. I wonder if in retrospect they would agree?

Cindy Munford on July 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM

Arrest him for what? Zaleya nullified his presidency by flaunting their constitution. The Honduran Supreme Court executed the penalty, they removed Zaleya from the presidency. There was no basis for jailing him.

Buddahpundit on July 4, 2009 at 10:46 AM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Does Honduras have a procedure in its constitution to remove a president that has violated the constitution? I’ve been looking for that info and cannot find it. If anyone has a link in English, I would appreciate it being posted.

If there is such a constitutional procedure, it looks like Honduras didn’t follow it, although they had good reason to act quickly. If there isn’t such a constitutional procedure, it looks like they did the best they could, under the circumstances.

I think the central points about Honduras are that former president Zelaya violated the Honduran constitution and a Supreme Court order, pitting him against the Honduran Supreme Court and National Legislature. So, this is an internal affair, to be settled peacefully by the Honduran people by political means. Obama and his dictator and communist allies should keep their hands off Honduras.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Need some of this pounded sand for my vegetable garden. About a cubic yard ought to do it. You can come in through the alley. Second request.

whitetop on July 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Buddahpundit on July 4, 2009 at 10:46 AM

Ok, I get it but then why all the whining? According to progressoverpeace it was Zaleya’s call to leave of the country. So why is our non-meddling president meddling? I can barely keep up the garbage that goes on here and I have a working knowledge of the rules, this is confusing.

Cindy Munford on July 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Withdrawl from the OAS sounds suspiciously like a group of Texans who said ‘Come and take it’.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM

HA was mocking Rush for worrying about the releal of he 22nd Amendment too.

Yeah. That was pretty low. One would think that Hotair would understand that turnover is one of the fundamental mechanisms for not allowing power to concentrate. Anyone who would even want to have more than two terms in the White House is exhibiting qualities that make him totally unsuitable to be President. George Washington would be very disappointed at the way many have lost the feeling of how American governance should run.

But this a*hole has been jumping to support dictators at each opportunity. Does anyone really think that he is destroying this country so that he can turn it back over the the Republicans to undo everything (as if they c/would)?

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 10:40 AM

Personally, I don’t think The Precedent is so much thinking about a third term, rather, how he can destroy us in his first term and leave an unrecoverable, smoking ember of a nation. But, he might be getting seduced by all the power and fun he’s having tearing us apart and decide that he wants to stay forever. It’s clear that anyone possible extension of The Precedent’s power is an insane risk and Hotair doesn’t want to come to grips with this.

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Whatever the constitutionality of his exile, it was a matter of self-defense. Honduras is acting in its own best interest to prevent it from becoming the next Cubazuela. Godspeed to them.

Remember, Jimmy Carter deposed Samoza and imposed Ortega. It didn’t happen by benign neglect. Honduras knows that as well as anyone, and doesn’t want Zelaya rousing the rabble from within the country, hosting Chaves etc at big rallies etc.

I predict that this is going to get real ugly, and Hugo Obooba wll have been the author of it.

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Botched??? Extra-legal?????

Ed, I just don’t get you lately. I think AP is having a bad effect on you.

What the Hondurans did was perfectly within their laws and constitution. It was no coup, it was the legal removal of a renegade president who was subverting the laws of his land.

conservnut on July 4, 2009 at 10:56 AM

If anyone has a link in English, I would appreciate it being posted.

Hondoran constitution in Espaniol

With Google Language translation

William Amos on July 4, 2009 at 10:57 AM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:27 AM

Jeez, now I have to google “ochlocracy.”

good points. I’m beginning to think we all put too much insistence on the intellectual purity of the pundits we read. Instead of demanding purity from them, we ought to just lower their significance a notch. Too many of our political problems in general come from listening to the media, old or new, as if its gospel.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 10:58 AM

I can ask someone.

I can tell you, there is a Honduran exchange student and a Venezuelan exchange student personally known to me in my program, and they both are incredibly happy with the Honduran government over this.

Ed, I do believe that you’re overstating the legal ‘concerns’ that exist here. The Honduran people are backing this 100%, and if that isn’t democracy, I’m not sure what is.

Scott H on July 4, 2009 at 10:58 AM

Extra-legal?

Option A: Go legal, the world admires you, you die.

Option B: Go extra-legal, the world screams, you live.

Honduras took the Thomas Paine approach. Legal or not the shackles had to go.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Obama and his dictator and communist allies should keep their hands off Honduras.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Remember, up is down, right is left, good is bad. It will take some getting used to, but the US under Obama is a potent force for evil in the world. We’ve been accused of that by the left for decades, and its finally come to pass. Others ought to be very worried.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Extra-legal?

Option A: Go legal, the world admires you, you die.

Option B: Go extra-legal, the world screams, you live.

Honduras took the Thomas Paine approach. Legal or not the shackles had to go.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Go kim jong ill or Assmidjanashmuck and people line up to kiss your feet.

the_nile on July 4, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Viva Honduras!!! The Obama administration’s handling of this situation has been dim and dismally wrong-headed. Big mistake. OAS looks like a U.N. wannabe. Buy Honduran coffee and bananas at your grocer.

Bob in VA on July 4, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Honduras has the balls once displayed on this day by the USA.

Obama and his dictator and communist allies should keep their hands off Honduras.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 10:51 AM

Obama has enough problems at home without telling others how to run their country, like Bush.

Wade on July 4, 2009 at 11:08 AM

Remember, up is down, right is left, good is bad.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Do you remember the leftists at colleges over the years chanting, US hands off (fill in the name of some communist country)?

Well, that was then. This is now:

US HANDS OFF OF HONDURAS, OBAMA!

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:09 AM

However, it seems more than odd that the OAS has made such a fetish out of Zelaya while they’re preparing to admit Cuba, with its military junta firmly in place for the last 50 years.

Consistent, nothing “more than odd” about the predictable.

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Damn it…. The Obamanation was just on the TV pimping out his personal private SS.

doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:10 AM

It’s a sad day when the people of a Third World nation, and a muslim mullocracy have more respect for freedom and rule of law than does America.

Is it me, or are people really coming down on Ed and AP here lately? Even when you disagree with them….sheesh….they’re good guys and on our side!

Lastly, Happy Independence Day, everyone!

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:11 AM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM

I’v done a quick check of the 22nd Amendment and I have a question.

Can a two-termer run again – after a hiatus? (I’m thinking of Obama’s wife, here).

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

I’ll be gone today and I’d like to wish everyone a Happy 205-213th 4th of July.That was the last time I recognized my country. Today my country attacks freedom, supports despots, where supposedly FCC monitored TV allows comedians to joke about raping little girls, (back then this man would be shouted down until he was unemployed which would of taken less than a day because the network would know FCC sanctions were coming.) Back then we had a REAL leader, not a snot nosed punk weakling with the world view of a true 60s scumbag hippie. Back then we wouldn’t allow a group of lying scientists & politicians hoodwink us into the greatest sham in world history.
Nope, it sure wasn’t perfect back then,but this is no longer the America that lead the world in innovation, the country that defended freedom in the world, the country that used common sense to solve it’s problems,not a socialistic European way. The country that the Founding Fathers started and died for is dead too. We’re living in the hollow husk of it’s dead and decaying body.
So again, Happy 4th of July, a toast to our dead friend. We’ll remember her fondly!

Jeff from WI on July 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

pimping out his personal private SS.

what did he say

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

William Amos on July 4, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Nothing in what I read of what appeared to be relevant to this issue mandated Zelaya’s expulsion. However, although Google Translator seems to have mangled the syntax, the last line of the Honduran Constitution seems to require that he repay whatever damage he has done:

“Congress may declare the vote of an absolute majority of its members, the seizure of part or all of the assets of those persons and those who have been enriched under the impersonation of popular sovereignty or the usurpation of public authority to compensate the Republic of the damage it caused.”

So maybe he got off easy instead of having to pay the govt for the expenses incurred in opposing his coup.

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 11:13 AM

what did he say

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

He was urging people to join.

doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:13 AM

What the hell is wrong with people? The left has grabbed hold of the ‘legal’ option to destory us. If the system is so flawed that it allows your enemy to slit your throat then what good is it? It gives you some moral highground in the cemetary?

These lefty governments lead to nothing but poverty for the masses and kings, princes and ‘gods’ to oversee them. Putin, Chavez, Dinnerjacket, Kim…….all use ‘legal’ as a shield. Common Sense appears to be dead.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:15 AM

He was urging people to join.
doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:13 AM

Join what, ACORN?

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 11:15 AM

Jeff from WI on July 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

It’s good to be realistic about who/what we are today. It’s good to recognize that we’re not what we once were. It’s good to recognize and admit all that’s wrong with us now. And it’s good to try to come up with and implement a plan to do something about it.

If I have learned one thing: LIFE is about choices!

And one chooses how to react to circumstances. You can choose to engage in things that tear down, or build up. I choose to work very hard on a path for fruitfulness and productivity. I choose NOT to tear down and waste precious time; but to build UP this state and our country, and her industrious, generous, patriotic, free people!

Life is too short to compromise time and resources… it may be tempting and more comfortable to just keep your head down, plod along, and appease those who demand: “Sit down and shut up”, but that’s the worthless, easy path; that’s a quitter’s way out. And a problem in our country today is apathy. It would be apathetic to just hunker down and “go with the flow”.

Nah, only dead fish “go with the flow”.

No. Productive, fulfilled people determine where to put their efforts, choosing to wisely utilize precious time… to BUILD UP.

And there is such a need to BUILD up and FIGHT for our state and our country. I choose to FIGHT for it! And I’ll work hard for others who still believe in free enterprise and smaller government; strong national security for our country and support for our troops; energy independence; and for those who will protect freedom and equality and LIFE… I’ll work for and campaign for those PROUD to be American, and those who are INSPIRED by our ideals and won’t deride them.

I WILL support others who seek to serve, in or out of office, for the RIGHT reasons, and I don’t care what party they’re in or no party at all. Inside Alaska – or Outside Alaska.

I really liked her speech. Happy 4th to you too. Tks for the good comments all the time.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Evidence? Or is this even required anymore? The dude violated the constitution – and was firing people who didn’t comply with him.
HondaV65 on July 4, 2009 at 10:36 AM

Sounds like Obama.

Wade on July 4, 2009 at 11:18 AM

I really liked her speech. Happy 4th to you too. Tks for the good comments all the time.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Think the men who voted on July 2, 1776, read what they were voting on?

Wade on July 4, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Hope Honduras comes out of this OK. Butt out Barry and let things take their own course. You’d think that Zelaya was a sports star and friend of Obama’s the way things are going.

jeanie on July 4, 2009 at 11:19 AM

He was urging people to join.

doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:13 AM

Yeah, what’s it called, what is it ostensibly to do.

I ask not only cause it sucks, but because I think the right needs to do exactly the same thing. I don’t think Rep. politicians can do much with the unlevel playing field they get because of the dominance of the srm. Undoing that should be the goal of the grassroots army of the right.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:19 AM

From ACORN’s web site:

Global Campaign for Remittance Reform

Member organizations of Community Organizations International (formally ACORN International) launched a grassroots campaign to reform the global remittance market today with coordinated actions in cities across India, Peru, Argentina, Mexico, Canada, Dominican Republic, Kenya, Korea, the Philippines and Indonesia.

The targets of the actions; Scotia Bank, HSBC, Western Union, MoneyGram and the Reserve Bank of India are major players in the global remittance market that in 2008 topped $300 Billion.

Community Organizations International is calling these corporations to commit to meetings with our leadership in the coming weeks to discuss proposals to reduce costs and improve the flow of remittances to the developing world. [end]

They’re goin global! They prolly have an office in Honduras now.

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 11:19 AM

If the Fairness Doctrine passes it will be ‘legal’ to force HotAir to comply. Legal won’t taste so sweet then.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:09 AM

Good thought, but today’s masses only read from all those syllables: Hands off Obama.

Humanitarians Aid Honduras

The Hondurans had the good grace to send Zelaya on vacation in Costa Rica instead of shackling him in prison. Their Supreme Court and Military officially are acting to preserve their Constitutional Government.

American military under Obama is standing down while enabling the Communist Coup. International banks owned by global Marxists are boycotting Honduras. Now their OAS “neighbors” have officially 86ed Honduras; obviously the OAS is owned by the same interests manipulating international banking system.

What of Colombia? AND Costa Rica? A new American Liberty Alliance in the works?

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:21 AM

If our congress and supreme court only had half the balls
maybe we could rid ourselves of the ONE.

easyone on July 4, 2009 at 11:23 AM

While it is easy to criticize Obama/Clinton and to a lesser extent other pundits, I have to ask where is the Repub party on this issue.

If in fact Honduras has acted completely within the law why has the Repub party, outside of a few, remained silent?

I don’t get it. This is a made to order situation where clear lines could be drawn between the parties not to mention a morale boost for the Hondurans. It is continuing episodes like this where I have no faith in the Repub leadership. They deserve to be back benchers.

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 11:24 AM

jeanie on July 4, 2009 at 11:19 AM

Butt Out Barry!

bingo

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:20 AM

No worries, there – we’ve got AnneinCA.

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 11:26 AM

If our congress and supreme court only had half the balls
maybe we could rid ourselves of the ONE.

easyone on July 4, 2009 at 11:23 AM

EXACTLY!

As Patrick Neid points out, the GOP is a flop on every point, each as it occurs. Cowards without principle, self serving crud.

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Can a two-termer run again – after a hiatus? (I’m thinking of Obama’s wife, here).

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

No. The hiatus doesn’t matter, but there does seem to be one little loophole – in that someone can be a non-elected President as many times as the situation comes up:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. [ ... ]

If someone is only “elected” once (or even twice, depending on the order), but gets selected several times – moving up from VP or Speaker, etc. to take over Presidential duties – there seems to be no limit.

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM

patrick neid on July 4, 2009 at 11:24 AM

Because the Golf Club lives in the world of our betters.

The GOP isn’t just lost, it’s drain bamaged.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM

According to voa, the OAS is still going to vote on firing Honduras today, even though they already quit. It’s like they don’t want to give Honduras the upper hand by acknowledging their declaration of independence.

Buddahpundit on July 4, 2009 at 11:28 AM

With Google Language translation

William Amos on July 4, 2009 at 10:57 AM

Thanks. There are 375 articles in the Honduran Constitution, many referring to other articles. A little confusing. In my first scan, I have seen means to remove people from other government posts, but not yet found a constitutional means to remove the Honduran president. If that’s true, it’s a major oversight.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:28 AM

I’m off to the Philly Tea Party. Happy Independence Day to all!

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 11:28 AM

With this attempt to ignore the Constitution of Honduras, is there anyone here who questions the reason the founders wrote the 2nd amendment?

Wade on July 4, 2009 at 11:29 AM

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Good thought, but today’s MSM only read from all those syllables: Lips on Obama.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:30 AM

If the OAS and the Obama administration want to defend democracy, they should stop isolating the democracy that fumbled the legal and justifiable removal of a renegade executive and focus on the dictatorship in Havana.

The current United States administration does not believe in “democracy” or “legal”…

* The embrace of ACORN, known for perpetrating voter fraud

* The takeover of the auto industry

* The takeover of the banking industry

* Moving the Census from the Commerce Department to the White House, eliminating any oversight (consider the implications for political representation and government funding)

* The firing of Inspectors General, without the required approval of Congress

* The bypassing of Congress-approved Cabinet officials by the appointment of “czars” answerable only to the Executive Office

* The conscripting of the so-called media, thereby denying the American people access to the facts

The current administration is, in effect if not in actual name, a Socialist/Marxist takeover of the United States government. As far as this Veteran is concerned, the United States no longer has a functioning democratic government.

Rusty Bill on July 4, 2009 at 11:30 AM

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Thank you for the reply. I thought I’d found his loop-hole. Glad to be wrong.

OldEnglish on July 4, 2009 at 11:31 AM

If our congress and supreme court only had half the balls
maybe we could rid ourselves of the ONE.

easyone on July 4, 2009 at 11:23 AM

Based on? Don’t misunderstand, I wish it could happen too. However, what could you do it on?

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:31 AM

If the OAS and the Obama administration want to defend democracy,…

They don’t – that’s the whole problem. If this were another communist/socialist/facist takeover then the OAS and Obama administrations would have no problem with it.

Hats off to Honduras for standing up for their constitution. Yes, it may cost them – but on this day above all others we should remember that freedom always comes at a price.

DamnCat on July 4, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Why would Ogabe focus on the dictators (Castro. Chavez)? They are his role models!

jwp1964 on July 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Yeah, what’s it called, what is it ostensibly to do.

I ask not only cause it sucks, but because I think the right needs to do exactly the same thing. I don’t think Rep. politicians can do much with the unlevel playing field they get because of the dominance of the srm. Undoing that should be the goal of the grassroots army of the right.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:19 AM

http://www.serve.gov/

doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:35 AM

Too many people are transposing the details from our Constitution onto the Honduran people and accusing them of impropriety,

cruadin on July 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM

No kidding. The Hondurans had a rogue president, blatantly defying the legal orders of their Supreme Court, and deliberately violating explicit provisions of their Constitution. What were they supposed to do? Send him a sternly worded letter? Go on t.v. and express their “grave concerns” about his illegal actions?

Nobody claiming that the Honduran military’s actions were “botched” or “extra-legal” has cited any specific Honduran law that the military violated when they carried out the order of the Honduran Supreme Court to remove Zelaya from office. The fact that we in the U.S. have different procedures for removing a law-breaking president from office is irrelevant. The Hondurans have no obligation to act in accordance with U.S. law. The only relevant question here is did the Honduran military act in accordance with Honduran law, and it appears that they did.

AZCoyote on July 4, 2009 at 11:36 AM

Why would Ogabe focus on the dictators (Castro. Chavez)? They are his role models!

jwp1964 on July 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM

He’s jealous of them.

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:37 AM

Rusty Bill on July 4, 2009 at 11:30 AM

Speaking of the census, the new long form is 28 pages. There’s a $5k fine for each failure to answer a question, including questions about when you leave for work and when you get home each day. Do you want ACORN to know when your house is empty?

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 11:38 AM

The State Department may be shifting its position. From CBS we see

U.S. State Department lawyers continue to study whether the action to throw Zelaya out of office was legally a military coup, because the person, who was constitutionally next in line as President, did take over after Zelaya’s removal.

Something to think about — Obama is now in Moscow — while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is still back in the USA. She didn’t go with Obama to Russia. And when Zelaya visited Washington she refused to meet with him.

SunSword on July 4, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 11:38 AM

Glenn was saying the other day that he probably won’t flaunt the census form, they’ll be looking for anything to get him on. The rest of us? No frakkin’ way I’m giving the ACORN thugs my information. I’ll be a test case for this!

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:41 AM

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:41 AM

But it’s a crime to misuse your information, dontcha know?

Akzed on July 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM

mm hmmm…lol

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM

Something to think about — Obama is now in Moscow — while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is still back in the USA. She didn’t go with Obama to Russia. And when Zelaya visited Washington she refused to meet with him.

SunSword on July 4, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Love it!!! So excellent. For years, State has been a rogue agency, and a thorn in Rep. Presidents’ sides. I’m happy to see Hillary try to wield it to hurt Barry. Great theater.

JiangxiDad on July 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:28 AM

From the (fairly awful) Google translation:

ARTICLE 313 .- The courts will require the help of the security forces to fulfill their resolutions, if they refused or were not any available, as required of citizens.

Article 314 .- It is a custodial power of the Courts of Justice, judge and enforce judgments. To them to the application of laws in specific cases.

Lox, check out elduende’s posts about this on the Honduran threads. He goes into more detail (with better translations) about the relevant Constitutional articles.

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM

lots of things are crimes….

bikermailman on July 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM

If someone is only “elected” once (or even twice, depending on the order), but gets selected several times – moving up from VP or Speaker, etc. to take over Presidential duties – there seems to be no limit.

progressoverpeace on July 4, 2009 at 11:27 AM

So, this is how they do it “Constitutionally.” Barry runs again in 2012 and wins, because, well, he’s The One.

Then Michelle runs in 2016 in the number one position with Barry as number two, which is something I always see him as. And they win because Michelle bears arms. So right after inauguration, she resigns, and Barry takes over.

Then they repeat this in 2020. And by then, all this stupid constitutional talk should be dead, and we’ll be celebrating the birth of a new nation.

[Make this not happen please!]

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Thanks. There are 375 articles in the Honduran Constitution, many referring to other articles. A little confusing. In my first scan, I have seen means to remove people from other government posts, but not yet found a constitutional means to remove the Honduran president. If that’s true, it’s a major oversight.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:28 AM

ARTICLE 239 .- The citizen who has ownership of the executive branch may not be President or Designee.

Anyone who violates this provision or the proposed reform, and support those who directly or indirectly, immediately cease the discharge of their duties, and shall be disqualified for ten years to exercise any public function.

ARTICLE 313 .- The courts will require the help of the security forces to fulfill their resolutions, if they refused or were not any available, as required of citizens.

Anyone who unreasonably refuses to give aid liability.

Lox, these two Articles pretty much lay out the legality of the Honduran congress and supreme court.

doriangrey on July 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM

THE OAS. UN’s younger bro’ with a drug problem.

Fletch54 on July 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM

If the Fairness Doctrine passes it will be ‘legal’ to force HotAir to comply. Legal won’t taste so sweet then.

Limerick on July 4, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Progressives conform in advance donning cloak and dagger as good moderates corrupted by a sense of power. Principle: selfish survival by sabotage of ideal. Bow to whatever. Those who dance with the devil are his.

I support the Honduran nation’s right to uphold their own Constitution and to evict dictators and tyranny.

Who is celebrating July 4th preparing subservience to Marx via negation of the US Constitution?

I argue the legality of any legislation that presumes to pre-empt the Supreme Law of the Land, our Constitution!

It is not the citizen’s responsibility to support unconstitutional agendas, but in fact, our responsibility to uphold the urtext of the Constitution.

maverick muse on July 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM

Latin America is plagued with lousy presidentes. Honduras just made sure in their constitution that they could get rid of one quickly if need be.

Viva Honduras and butt out Barry.

Mojave Mark on July 4, 2009 at 11:47 AM

Then Michelle runs in 2016 in the number one position with Barry as number two, which is something I always see him as. And they win because Michelle bears arms. So right after inauguration, she resigns, and Barry takes over.

Loxodonta on July 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM

The VP candidate has to be Constitutionally elegible, which a two term former president would not be.

Not that the Constitution matters much to these people.

myrenovations on July 4, 2009 at 11:48 AM

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