CanadaCare sends baby to US for treatment

posted at 11:00 am on June 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

My friend Michael Stickings links to a story of bureaucratic outrages involving an acutely ill premature baby, but only focuses on one particular outrage while excusing the other.  Because Canada does not have the capacity to deal with the demand for neo-natal intensive care for premature births, the single-payer system sent the critically ill child to the United States for treatment.  Unfortunately, the parents do not have passports which are now required for crossing the border, and the US refuses to allow them into the country without them:

A critically-ill premature-born baby from Hamilton is all alone in a Buffalo, N.Y., hospital after she was turned away for treatment at local facility and transferred across the border without her parents, who don’t have passports.

Ava Stinson was born Thursday at St. Joseph’s Hospital, 14 weeks premature.

A provincewide search for an open neonatal intensive care unit bed came up empty, leaving no choice but to send the two pound, four ounce baby to Buffalo.

Her parents Natalie Paquette and Richard Stinson couldn’t follow their child because as of June 1, a passport is required to cross the border into the United States.

They’re having to approve medical procedures over the phone and are terrified something will happen to their baby before they get there.

Stinson has a criminal record, which makes matters worse for entry to the US.  Obviously, though, this is not a planned diversion but a real medical crisis.  Surely the US and Canada can agree to temporary measures that will allow the parents to cross the border, even if under embassy supervision and security, to join their child.  As Michael notes, keeping them away from their child at this critical juncture is needlessly cruel.

But let’s not place the onus on the US for the need to separate the parents in the first place.  Michael attempts to dismiss the underlying problem:

I won’t get into the relative merits of the American and Canadian health-care systems here. Suffice it to say that there obviously need to be more neo-natal intensive care unit beds up here. Thankfully — and this doesn’t mean that the American system is better (after all, at least the couple and their baby are guaranteed care up here, thanks to our public system, even if it’s not perfect) — there was an opening south of the border.

Well, it’s impossible to look at this situation without seeing the relative merits of the American and Canadian systems.  First, the child would have gotten care in the US, too, regardless of insurance status.  People get emergency care regardless in this country.  There is a difference between health insurance and access to care that some people elide for purposes of political argument.  No one gets turned away from emergency care for lack of ability to pay.

But why wasn’t there a NICU bed for the child in the entire nation of Canada?  The government of Canada won’t pay for more.  They don’t exist to expand supply to meet demand; their single-payer system exists to ration care as a cost-saving mechanism.  In a free-market system, supply expands to meet demand, which is why Canada could subcontract out to a US hospital for capacity.  Michael writes that paragraph as if it was mere luck that an NICU bed happened to be open in the US, but that’s a function of the system, and not luck.  These parents are separated from their child at the moment through the fault of Canada’s government and not the US.

It’s a good lesson for both Americans and Canadians as the administration and Congress attempt to push a systemic overhaul of the US health-care system that will cost trillions and push us towards the same kind of single-payer system that Canada has.  When we handle our health-care system like Canada, where will Canadians send the next NICU case they can’t handle?  And where will America send ours?

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But BY GOD I’d love to see the Lefties’ beloved Communism re-instituted! I’d love to see it shoved up the Lefties ALL the way to the hilt — and broken off. I’d love to see every Leftie who swoons at the glories of Socialism compelled to LIVE under it for two centuries, since most of one century evidently wasn’t long enough to give them a clue.

Stick it in slowly and covertly, Obama-Socialist-fashion, if necessary. Or stick it in openly and briskly, euro-Socialist style, if possible. Whatever the tactics, I say GIVE people the Socialism they so deeply crave. I’ll leave the world a smiling, happy man if I can see that justice done.

HalJordan on June 28, 2009 at 3:01 PM

Lol, Hal. I love your writing style! Plus, you express exactly the way I feel. I feel kind of guilty about it.

Alana on June 28, 2009 at 4:22 PM

My apologies to Ann in NY.

My rant was against the infamous ‘AnninCA’.

Sapwolf on June 28, 2009 at 4:22 PM

As a rancher 16 hours is about right.
Some of the folks on this rant might try it.
The other comment is pure BS “Raw capitalism has NEVER produced the best results.”

“It’s always had to be softened by regulations, etc.

Otherwise, frankly, we’d all be working 16 hours a day still.

Right now, we’re all suffering because capitalism was given too much rein. They bankrupted the flipping world.”

Barney Frank and friends with his flakie Fannie and Freddie mac did us in with the sub prime racket.They bankrupted the flipping world, Global warming credits is the next scam that will burn traders and investors.

Col.John Wm. Reed on June 28, 2009 at 4:32 PM

My apologies to Ann in NY.

My rant was against the infamous ‘AnninCA’.

Sapwolf on June 28, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Apology accepted. I did agree with your rant btw.

Ann NY on June 28, 2009 at 4:35 PM

I’m sorry but I cannnot believe that someone can truly be as ignorant and smug as AnninCA comes across. She patting herself on the back for standing naked in front of the fridge during a hot flash. Here’s a liberal flash for you honey…that isn’t green behavior. You should have just sweat it out if you were truly of the hearty stock that you claim. And if you knew your kid was going to be on the BRAT diet for his stomach ailment, why did you waste resources going to the DR to find out? Fluidity in CA tx? How about the discovery recently that the drug used to treat breast CA also works for stomach CA. How did that happen? The push for socialized medicine is part of Obama and Soros plan for one world with few people in it. Only the power elite. I say to you: go back to California and figure out your own state. Socialized medicine has been tried in this country and it is called Medicare, Medicaid and the VA (all terrible failures). It is a sin some of the care these government entites provide/fail to provide. I’m a nurse and not an economist but here’s my thought. I want to be able to purchase health insurance the same way I can purchase auto and home owners insurance. I pay for basic maintainance and have insurance for catostrophic illnesses.
Soory for the long winded rant but 4 pages of reading AnninCA’s drivel set me off. Thanks.

red131 on June 28, 2009 at 5:04 PM

It does seem like cancer treatment is very fluid these days.

AnninCA on June 28, 2009 at 2:25 PM

LOL!!

What the hell does that mean? Modern medicine is about 100 years old.
The planet has been about for 6 billion years more or less and man has been
around for about 40,000 years more or less??
The human body is god’s greatest creation and man could only begin to imagine that he would know all about the human body. Everyone that is alive today was born from a mother. Everyone dies. To say that “It does seem like cancer treatment is very fluid these days.” shows our ignorance has no bounds. Any medical treatment is based on what the greatest minds of today know. And we know it is not 100%. And any medical treatment is the best guess of another human being. We are not in Star Trek. So for Obama to come out and say that he will “boldy go where no president has gone before” is no different than to say I have solved the problem of time travel. It is all pure fantasy based on a leftist agenda. Pure & Simple.

izoneguy on June 28, 2009 at 5:15 PM

after all, at least the couple and their baby are guaranteed care up here, thanks to our public system, even if it’s not perfect

That statement is just nonsensical. How can they be guaranteed care if they could not get care? They are welcome to let thier baby die comforted by the fact that if canada was capable of providing adequate services they would? I didn’t know they had obamamaniacs in canada.

peacenprosperity on June 28, 2009 at 5:17 PM

Earlier this year, I woke up at about 4 in the morning with serious abdominal pain. My Mom and I went to the ER and got checked in. They did all their tests, and it turned out I had appendicitis. I got the appendix out in the next 2 hours, stayed overnight, and got checked out the next day.
Our healthcare system is far from perfect (and way too damn expensive). We need to make it better, but I don’t believe socialized medicine is the way to go. If I couldn’t have gotten care at my hosipital, and had to be moved I would’ve been scared shitless. I can’t even imagine it.

Emily M. on June 28, 2009 at 4:04 PM

And if you had been in Canada or Britian you might have died. Much cheaper to deal with than some pesky operation.

Canada’s Nationalized Health Care Continues Jeopardizing Patients’ Lives
http://ginacobb.typepad.com/gina_cobb/2007/10/canadas-nationa.html

Yet another near disaster in Canada’s socialized health care system, as a man desperately searched for a hospital to give him an emergency appendectomy:

. . . the 21-year-old Gatineau [Quebec] student went to bed, thinking he’d feel better by the morning. But when he woke up the next day, the pain was still there, and it was getting worse.

He headed to Gatineau Memorial Hospital, thinking that doctors would soon figure out what was ailing him and take care of it.

He never imagined the ordeal that would follow: The young man was turned away from five hospitals, got lost in an ambulance and, 28 hours after he was diagnosed, he had a burst appendix removed — in Montreal.

Single Payer Singularly Unsuccessful

http://www.i2i.org/main/article.php?article_id=158

In 2001, Lisa Campbells physician suspected appendicitis and sent the 18-year-old to the Royal Cornwall Hospital with a letter requesting urgent attention. She spent 12 hours on the hospital floor wrapped in a blanket. Despite a high fever, vomiting, and excruciating pain, the hospital would not examine her until a gurney was available. It took two more days to diagnose appendicitis.

As treating sick people is more expensive than letting them die, single payer systems also discriminate against the elderly and powerless.

izoneguy on June 28, 2009 at 5:24 PM

That statement is just nonsensical. How can they be guaranteed care if they could not get care? They are welcome to let thier baby die comforted by the fact that if canada was capable of providing adequate services they would? I didn’t know they had obamamaniacs in canada.

peacenprosperity on June 28, 2009 at 5:17 PM

All this talk of guarantees reminds me of the scene in “Tommy Boy” when Tommy is trying to convince a potential customer that a competitor’s product, while guaranteed, is not as good as the one Tommy’s company makes. In this case, the Canadian government is the competitor.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That’s all it is, isn’t it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer’s sake, for your daughter’s sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

venividivici on June 28, 2009 at 5:24 PM

On a neo-natal intensive care scale, the Stinson baby looks fairly good. It’s pretty bad that Canada doesn’t have a bed for what appears to be a relatively stable but premature infant. But, as I said, Canada has been transferring infants and children who need critical care to the US as long as I can remember.

Canada pays the bill and we have a bed that doesn’t go to waste. (I hope we charge Canada full price.) So, Canada saves money and we don’t pay for an empty bed. Almost win-win, because the US still foots the bill for R&D of healthcare.

Problems are going to arise when they start rationing care and we can’t provide enough beds for our own critical care patients.

Blake on June 28, 2009 at 5:24 PM

izoneguy on June 28, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Yeah, I actualy stand in awe of our Medical profesionals.

I’m an IT guy… for over 30 years now. Watched the technology evolve… crap… I used to program in Ring 1 (thats 1 and 0s and register shifts… real low level stuff).

But as things became more and more complex, we in the industry find ourselves guessing more and more… we now replace instead of fix…

Now, add a couple of orders of magnitude of complexity to what we do, and you get close to the human body, and its somthing that we did not design… we’re trying to figure it out as we go.

Heck, I’m suprised they are correct as often as they are with the complexity of the system they work on.

Romeo13 on June 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM

Great. Just what we all wanted: Less of everything for everyone. Back to the dark ages.

Alana on June 28, 2009 at 4:12 PM

And this is why I think the American people are not going to accept obammycare. They are not going to pay more and in order to receive less care and wait months for it to boot.

And this is also why they will sneak it in and then change the rules – putting private insurance out of business, taxing health care benefits, raising taxes, rationing care, etc. All they want to do is get their foot in the door and set it up. Once in, they will pretty much do what they want because they will never jettison the program. That’s why it is important to stop it now and stop it completely.

Blake on June 28, 2009 at 5:32 PM

izoneguy on June 28, 2009 at 5:15 PM

Yeah, I actualy stand in awe of our Medical profesionals.

I’m an IT guy… for over 30 years now. Watched the technology evolve… crap… I used to program in Ring 1 (thats 1 and 0s and register shifts… real low level stuff).

But as things became more and more complex, we in the industry find ourselves guessing more and more… we now replace instead of fix…

Now, add a couple of orders of magnitude of complexity to what we do, and you get close to the human body, and its somthing that we did not design… we’re trying to figure it out as we go.

Heck, I’m suprised they are correct as often as they are with the complexity of the system they work on.

Romeo13 on June 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM

Bingo!! Romeo13 -Why does the left think they can solve complex problems with more laws (words written on paper) and more taxes (money taken from the very people they are “trying” to help)?

The ZERO liability voter is fast becoming the greatest liabilty to the producers. Obama’s class warfare will destroy America. not make it stronger.
Nationalized Health Care would be the final nail in the coffin.

izoneguy on June 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM

You’re right Ed, let’s not lose sight of the fact that Baby Stinson was born at 26 weeks gestation into a system that made a choice to not provide a system of care that is easily accessible and readily available – at a cost.

There is a model NICU at Children’s Hospitals and Clinics of Minnesota you can read about the costs in the link.

One thing Obama said during the ABC infomercial was a way to save healthcare costs is to ditch care that “evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve” the patient’s health. Well not all infants who enter NICU live, and some who enter at 26 week gestation leave with life long issues. NICU is expensive. You all may have been thinking he was talking about abandoning the care of old people – but maybe he was also talking about infants too – just like that Canadian healthier system has done.

Breakthroughs in the care of pre-term infants (and the elderly for that matter) have come because we have been willing to do extraordinary things. We have pushed the viability younger & younger because we have been willing to be extraordinary. And as we have saved them younger, we have also made their quality of life better and more near normal, or as normal to a term infant. Are we ready to stop moving forward?

batterup on June 28, 2009 at 5:51 PM

You know, Democrats love to tell stories about some down and out individual who slipped through the cracks in the system and use the unfortunate person’s story to agitate for change. I think the story of poor little Ava Stinson should be on the lips of every Republican from now on.

Kafir on June 28, 2009 at 5:53 PM

Nationalized Health Care would be the final nail in the coffin.

izoneguy on June 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM

Thats a tough one… I’m not sure which is the bigger threat… Healthcare “reform” or Cap and Trade…

Healthcare will bankrupt and kill us…

Cap and Trade will make us poor, bankrupt, and too weak to continue to pay for our defense.

If you look at the history of the industrial revolution… its all a cycle of new energy sources being exploited… cheap energy means progress. This makes energy MORE expensive, and less available.

But if you put Healthcare “Reform” and Cap and Trade together… well, there used to be a military/intelligence group I worked with that came up with the term Scroomed… combo of Screwed and Doomed…. it fits..

Romeo13 on June 28, 2009 at 5:55 PM

batterup on June 28, 2009 at 5:51 PM

It was not that long ago that octomom’s kids would have all died or the majority born premature, small for gestational age, and with serious lung problems, cerebral palsy, and blindness. Healthcare has come a very long way.

Blake on June 28, 2009 at 6:02 PM

Healthcare has come a very long way.

Blake on June 28, 2009 at 6:02 PM

And it about to go back.

About the touted “choice” Obama would offer; where you can choose to keep your existing health care or opt for the governmnet plan, hwat he is not tell you is that this will cost you far too much for most people to afford. That is because you will be taxed rfor the government plan even if you do not use it, and then have to pay for the private plan on top of the taxation.

If you send you kids to a Catholic school, or any other school operated by a chuch based entity, you already know how this works. You also know how nice it would be to get those vouchers Obama is so dead set against. Obama care will function in a similar way.

MikeA on June 28, 2009 at 6:10 PM

AnninCA on June 28, 2009 at 2:38 PM

You still haven’t anwered the good Professor’s question regarding overprescribing medications. You mentioned it in context of being a fault in our present system and he asked why switching to another system would alleviate the problem. You’ve toe danced all around having to answer his question. How about a direct answer? Standing naked in front of the open refrigerator doesn’t count. Neither does claiming to be opposed to a single pay system. Both are irrelevant to his question.

a capella on June 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM

HA! AnninCA is a member of talkleft.com

go figure

http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/4/22/0143/90714/2

Libertarian Joseph on June 28, 2009 at 6:31 PM

AnninCA on June 28, 2009 at 2:38 PM
You still haven’t anwered the good Professor’s question regarding overprescribing medications. You mentioned it in context of being a fault in our present system and he asked why switching to another system would alleviate the problem. You’ve toe danced all around having to answer his question. How about a direct answer? Standing naked in front of the open refrigerator doesn’t count. Neither does claiming to be opposed to a single pay system. Both are irrelevant to his question.

a capella on June 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM

Not gonna happen. If she isn’t just an astroturfer, she’s a bit, well, logically challenged.

Actually, in some ways she reminds me of Obama – barrelling on with the ‘talking points’ and agenda regardless of the facts.

ProfessorMiao on June 28, 2009 at 6:40 PM

HA! AnninCA is a member of talkleft.com

go figure

http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/4/22/0143/90714/2

Libertarian Joseph on June 28, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Nice catch. I thought she was simply overmedicated, I guess we can’t rule that out completely though.

daesleeper on June 28, 2009 at 6:43 PM

AnninCA

I’m a nurse working in a 200+ bed Midwestern hospital in Chicago and from my direct experience working as a floor nurse in a cardiac telemetry unit , you are full of it . Let me give some examples .
1) I worked with patient who came into the hospital with high fever and SOB , x-ray revealed some consolidation in the lung fields . So , the guy was given antibiotics hoping it would work . Patient cannot speak a word of English , no Social Security and obviously an Illegal with no money . when it did not work ,MRI of the chest was ordered and it revealed something else . So , the antibiotics were all stopped , but the patient stayed in the hospital while his attending and his multiple consultants grapple what to do . Finally , they decided on surgery . The patient spend another week or two in the hospital before getting discharge . The hospital and the doctors never saw a single cent for their services .

2) I took care of a patient who was on her nineties , A&O x 3 , ambulates on her own but sometimes uses a walker and lives alone and very independent . She came to the hospital because she broke her hip and she came to our unit because her cardiac enzymes are abnormal . she was just waiting for cardiac clearance prior to her surgery . So tell me AnninCA , if I read your post right , the hospital and her doctors would just send her home with pain meds because she was just wasting limited resources . You cared more about the illegals rather than your own citizens .

3) Emergency Rooms nationwide also acts as clinics to the non-insured patients and nobody gets denied . It’s the law .

I worked in Nursing homes as well and have seen how the government works in health care, first hand . I have heard of doctors complaining that they have to wait for six months , sometimes more to get paid by Medicare .

As an outsider , you think you know everything about healthcare . But to us in the front lines , you know nothing . To you, everything is abstract with fast and easy solutions . With us , that patient in bed one is reality and every decision the doctor would make , every order , everything that the nurse will do and chart have consequences , legal or otherwise . So if I were you AnninCA , why don’t you spend time working in a health care facility either a hospital or a nursing home as a floor staff . It quickly cures every health care nonsense you have in your head if you last long enough .

DinobotPrime on June 28, 2009 at 7:14 PM

Oblahma won’t react. He has DHS claim people that oppose abortion are terrorists.

seven on June 28, 2009 at 7:15 PM

I hope the baby lives. The baby and her parents are fortunate to be so close to the best medical care system in the World, for the time being.

Mexican babies and their parents close enough to the border, or residing here illegally have had access to this special care for decades now.

From the north and south people come here to seek great medical care.

All babies should have the best care modern medicine can offer. After Rahm, Axelrod and The One get done screwing up our system babies that may otherwise live will die.

With fewer doctors going into specialties and rationed care on the horizon more people will die.

This certainly is change.

FireBlogger on June 28, 2009 at 7:42 PM

DinobotPrime on June 28, 2009 at 7:14 PM

Same thing here, several illegals with bills over 1 mill. It amazes me that so many people listen to talking points on MSM. Totally false and they will argue with the truth till blue in the face. I mentioned before on another thread about the number of Drs and Nurses working here from Canada.Ask any one of them they will tell you horror stories.

LSUMama on June 28, 2009 at 7:46 PM

Thats a tough one… I’m not sure which is the bigger threat… Healthcare “reform” or Cap and Trade…

Healthcare will bankrupt and kill us…

Cap and Trade will make us poor, bankrupt, and too weak to continue to pay for our defense.

I think it would be easier to roll back cap and trade than socialized medicine. Cap and trade will be seen as a mistake very quickly. New Zealand is rolling their version back but they still have socialized medicine.

Ann NY on June 28, 2009 at 7:51 PM

We have pushed the viability younger & younger because we have been willing to be extraordinary. And as we have saved them younger, we have also made their quality of life better and more near normal, or as normal to a term infant. Are we ready to stop moving forward?

batterup on June 28, 2009 at 5:51 PM

But see, Obama and his radical feminists don’t think this is moving forward. To them, it isn’t progress, because it has made the abortion debate much more difficult. Seeing a baby in NICU surviving at 21 weeks gestation proves that, *horror* it really is a baby.

I don’t know if it has already been discussed, but I’d like to add to the point that no one is turned away here for emergency treatment. We also have publicly funded Health Departments in all states where you can take a child and get all it’s immunizations for free. While the services may vary from state to state, most that I know of supply everything from family planning, to prenatal care, to cervical/breast cancer screenings and more, all provided according to one’s ability to pay, meaning if you don’t have the money, it is free. Here in Tennessee they even have dental services.

I really don’t know how leftists get away with claiming that everyone doesn’t have health care in the United States.

pannw on June 28, 2009 at 8:04 PM

The answer to that question is simple, selective reporting by the media .

DinobotPrime on June 28, 2009 at 8:07 PM

DinobotPrime,
AnnInCA would never have the decency or the facts or the intellect to respond to you. But thanks a million for coming out and telling it like it is. Thank you for your service.

I am Indian and honestly i have not seen our state run media in India so blatantly propogandize for the Govt, the way the liberal MSM is doing it for the Democrat party and whomsoever the Democrat President is. Even the most fundamental facts are unknown to many of your well meaning citizens who clamour for nationalized healthcare.

This display of ignorance from so many people is stunning – and this deception being aided by the media is nothing short of treacherous.

God needs to save the USA first before going to the blessing part.

nagee76 on June 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM

Let me get this straight. We’re taking on a Canadain preme because Canadian Health Care sucks, but our President endorses putting those babies born alive after a botched abortion, to be put in a broom closet to dies.

Something here seems CRAZY

Jeff from WI on June 28, 2009 at 9:06 PM

Let’s put this in perspective. At 26 weeks, this baby would be considered a late term abortion under Obama’s way of thinking.

red131 on June 28, 2009 at 9:24 PM

The answer to that question is simple, selective reporting by the media .

DinobotPrime on June 28, 2009 at 8:07 PM

Agreed, but it is also partly willful ignorance on the part of the people, since no one can actually believe they are getting the true story from the msm anymore, surely. Okay, willful ignorance on the part of many, and actual stupidity on the rest. We are doomed.

I hate the msm.

pannw on June 28, 2009 at 9:45 PM

Response from Michael Steele and the rest of the GPO:

crickets

angryed on June 28, 2009 at 9:45 PM

That statement is just nonsensical. How can they be guaranteed care if they could not get care? They are welcome to let thier baby die comforted by the fact that if canada was capable of providing adequate services they would? I didn’t know they had obamamaniacs in canada.

peacenprosperity on June 28, 2009 at 5:17 PM

It makes sense if you understand how leftists think–what they really believe and care about, unconsciously, as opposed to what they say. They aren’t pragmatists. They may argue that their proposed solutions are practically beneficial, and some may actually believe it’s so, butto them that’s not the crucial issue. The crucial issues is that the Right People are empowered to make the decisions. The outcomes don’t actually matter, so long as the Right People (Thomas Sowell refers to them as “The Anointed”) are, to paraphrase President Bush, “the deciders”–no matter what the outcome.

Blacklake on June 28, 2009 at 10:50 PM

AnninCA

Before I go , let me tell you something . Doctors cannot over rule the decisions of the patient and their families in regards to their care , We may not like it if we have to take care of a 103 old man who had multiple sores or is demented and the family expects that we will treat him and cure him . Want to know why , one word , lawsuits . With the Obama administration who is very friendly with the trial lawyer lobby . The health care team of doctors , nurses , therapists as well as the hospitals , clinics and nursing homes we work in will be hit hard with the double whammy of government bureaucrats and trial lawyers looking for the big payday .

If you don’t believe me , try sitting in one of those hospital multidisciplinary ethic committees with family members in attendance . You will be very surprise on what family members unrealistic expectations from the staff in regards to their very sick loved ones even if everyone had already gave them the complete and brutal truth about the patient’s condition . I have enough stories to tell in regards to that .

DinobotPrime on June 28, 2009 at 11:25 PM

venividivici on June 28, 2009 at 5:24 PM

One of my favorite buddy comedies of all time. Never thought I’d see a line from it used to defend the American health care system.

Awesome.

warden on June 28, 2009 at 11:25 PM

I won’t get into the relative merits of the American and Canadian health-care systems here. Suffice it to say that there obviously need to be more neo-natal intensive care unit beds up here. Thankfully — and this doesn’t mean that the American system is better (after all, at least the couple and their baby are guaranteed care up here, thanks to our public system, even if it’s not perfect) — there was an opening south of the border.

Hmmm how can you be guaranteed care if there is no care to be had. There was no U.S. below Canada what would have happened? What good is a guarantee if there is nothing to back it up?

jharada on June 29, 2009 at 1:37 AM

AnninCA,

California is bankrupt right now because EXISTING immigration laws haven’t been enforced. The ANCHOR BABIES have guaranteed that. The CRIMINAL ALIENS go to an emergency room because they know that they can skip out on paying the bill because taxpayers will pick up the tab. Does this country have to turn into a TURD WORLD NATION ( Yes I mean A TURD WORLD NATION ) in order to satisfy you ?. Enacting single payer healthcare won’t fix the problem because there is a lack of having moral absolutes and never compromising on them. IF you compromise on them you end up with all the problems and no true solutions. Another thought; Why do most of the despots from other countries come to the USA for medical care instead of getting it in their own country ?

hamradio on June 29, 2009 at 1:48 AM

For about 80% of our lives, all we need is someone who can deliver a baby and give us a prescription when we’re knocked down by flu. That last leg in life is generally where most of us need more attention. And even then, I’d guess a lot of stuff could be charted, predicted, and easily handled with a systematic approach.

AnninCA.

Here it is in all the glory. Liberal Doctoring! No Doctor for you young ones. Just a PA or a NP and good luck. And the Affirmative Action Doctors and Doctors trained in Uganda that have just passed the new (lower) standard exams. Exactly what happened to the school system when the government took over. Guess we will be passing those Neonatal babies to god knows who, but we will call them “Doctor”, even if their knowledge of science is a little rusty.

GunRunner on June 29, 2009 at 2:32 AM

“Well, it would be unreasonable to expect Hamilton, a city of half-a-million people just down the road from Canada’s largest city (Greater Toronto Area, five-and-a-half million) in the most densely populated part of Canada’s most populous province (Ontario, 13 million people) to be able to offer the same level of neonatal care as Buffalo, a post-industrial ruin in steep population decline for half-a-century.”

— Mark Steyn

Jim Treacher on June 28, 2009 at 3:44 PM

You mean Buffalo, a city residing in the 4th most populous state, a state containing the nation’s most populous city (Neat trick!)? Buffalo may provide better care than Hamilton, Ontario?? Shocka.

crr6 on June 29, 2009 at 2:42 AM

AnninCA how can you be so COLD?

Don’t you see these wait times? Child dentistry wait of 105 days? Cardiac care a over a month!

And you mumble something about Iowa and 70% and lack of competition and never show any harm, just fantasies.

What is wrong with you? Open you eyes. Look at those wait times again! For children!

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/transformation/wait_times/public/wt_paediatric.html

GunRunner on June 29, 2009 at 2:49 AM

crr6 on June 29, 2009 at 2:42 AM

just down the road from Canada’s largest city (Greater Toronto Area, five-and-a-half million) in the most densely populated part of Canada’s most populous province (Ontario, 13 million people)

ALL OF CANADA did not have a bed, moron.

The point is that an area of single payer did not a have bed or care for a Neonatal child 5 times and so had to send it out of they Country because their system is broken, not ours.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/transformation/wait_times/public/wt_paediatric.html

GunRunner on June 29, 2009 at 2:54 AM

I take proponents of universal healthcare very personally. Theyre pretty much threatening my well-being and I take that very personal. You can disagree on issues, but there is no argument for universal healthcare.

canada’s system, fail

britain’s system, fail

france’s system, fail

I mean, cmon, where is the argument? where’s the quality? why are the rich of other nations coming here when they need healthcare? even 50% socialized, we still kick their asses in healthcare because theyre 100% socialized and even a private face on an over regulated industry is better than the crap they have going on in just about every other nation on earth.

I need more than just the same ol “what about the uninsured” argument because we already see that they receive the best treatment in this country than in countries where the entire thing is “free”

Libertarian Joseph on June 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM

Well, here’s one more anecdote about excellent U.S. health care. Last summer, I had what I thought was a stomach bug but turned out to be a gallbladdar about to explode from infection. My primary care physician’s office accepted me for an appointment at about 10 a.m. on a Friday morning; my doc sent me to another office for an ultrasound at about 11 a.m.; and when the results came back at 4 p.m., she called me and said to go right to a neighboring hospital.

I’d had nothing to eat or drink for three days because I’d been feeling so bad, but I was checked into the hospital with only one quick form to sign, and nice nurses and techs immediately got me settled in and on an IV.

At 10 a.m. the following morning, the surgeon removed my gallbladdar (laparoscopic–five small incisions), and I was home in my own bed, eating dinner from a tray, by 6:30 p.m. Everything worked like clockwork, and in all, I spent a very pleasant 26 hours in the hospital. Six weeks later, I had my follow-up appointment with the surgeon, just to make sure everything healed well.

I’m self-employed and pay a great deal for my Anthem Blue Cross insurance, but my goodness, it came through for me when I really needed it. I hate to think that such good care, both from my insurer and from all of the medical folks involved, may soon become a thing of the past.

KyMouse on June 29, 2009 at 7:30 AM

Re my previous post, my doctor got me in for that Friday 10 a.m. appointment as soon as I phoned her office. No waiting, because it sounded serious. And it was.

KyMouse on June 29, 2009 at 7:31 AM

KyMouse on June 29, 2009 at 7:30 AM

I ride horses, when I got diagnosed with sciatica I thought I might have trouble continuing riding. I looked online to see if there were others with my problem and I stumbled across a board of riders in the UK talking about back problems, wow, I have lived in the UK and have known some of the horror stories, but reading post after post of people with debilitating back problems who have been waiting months and months for MRIs and some even to see a Dr was sickening. The fact that they sell painkillers with codeine over the counter there says it all.

Ann NY on June 29, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Ann NY, I hope your sciatica is okay now. Good grief, do they really sell codeine OTC there? Yikes. A friend of mine in the UK waited six months to have fairly minor surgery on her nose, which for all I know might have been handled on an outpatient basis here.

I envy you for riding regularly! I took lessons as a kid and have ridden occasionally ever since, and have always loved it. Never was much good, but never got hurt either, so I guess did all right. Tickle one of those incredibly soft noses for me, please.

KyMouse on June 29, 2009 at 9:05 AM

KyMouse on June 29, 2009 at 7:30 AM

Wow, it stuns me how efficient the US system truly is in comparison to ours.

I live in BC. After my gallbladder was deemed “an emergency” – which under our system doesn’t mean it must be removed immediately, but just that the stones are mobile and may cause damage “if” the organ is not removed in a timely fashion – I waited 4 months to see a surgeon, and then 7 months for surgery.

My 19-year-old daughter is currently waiting for kidney surgery. She saw the Urologist in record time, given her age and condition, her GP pushed it, but the Urologist gave her no specific time line for when she can expect a surgery date. We do have an online “wait times” list categorized by surgery type and surgeon, but the lists aren’t accurate. For mine, it stated the wait would be 6 weeks.

Best thoughts to the Stinson’s and their baby.

lili on June 29, 2009 at 10:20 AM

As an outsider , you think you know everything about healthcare . But to us in the front lines , you know nothing . To you, everything is abstract with fast and easy solutions . With us , that patient in bed one is reality and every decision the doctor would make , every order , everything that the nurse will do and chart have consequences , legal or otherwise . So if I were you AnninCA , why don’t you spend time working in a health care facility either a hospital or a nursing home as a floor staff . It quickly cures every health care nonsense you have in your head if you last long enough .

DinobotPrime on June 28, 2009 at 7:14 PM

*clapping*

Spent many years as an RN in critical care in an inner city hospital in a major metropolitan area on the coast.

She has no clue. 80% could be handled like Oil Changers? LMFAO.

GeeWhiz on June 29, 2009 at 10:49 AM

Here is some real-time contrast:

On December 23, 2008 I was diagnosed, at age 45, with congenital hip dysplasia that was so advanced that it required a total hip replacement. I scheduled my surgery for February 23, 2009. Surgery was done and I was back to work by the end of April 2009.

Sometime in the past 2 years, a woman I know in England was diagnosed with the same thing at the age of 32. She needs two hip replacements. She finally got to see her 3rd consultant this past April, after waiting 3 months for the appt. They confirmed her diagnosis and surgical requirements. She now has to see yet a 4th consultant who can’t see her until August. Once that consultant confirms what the other 3 have already confirmed, she’ll be scheduled for surgery. Her approximate wait time for the procedures? 2-3 years.

Yes, years.

Living with congenital hip dysplasia is an odyssey of ever-increasing pain from degenerative arthritis as your hip joint falls apart. By the time my friend in England has her surgery, she’ll have likely been in a wheelchair for at least one year, possibly longer.

KrisinNE on June 29, 2009 at 10:50 AM

I ride horses, when I got diagnosed with sciatica I thought I might have trouble continuing riding. I looked online to see if there were others with my problem and I stumbled across a board of riders in the UK talking about back problems, wow, I have lived in the UK and have known some of the horror stories, but reading post after post of people with debilitating back problems who have been waiting months and months for MRIs and some even to see a Dr was sickening. The fact that they sell painkillers with codeine over the counter there says it all.

Ann NY on June 29, 2009 at 8:18 AM

There you go, in Canada codeine is sold over the counter in many forms like 222`s . I was floored when I saw all the meds they sell in pharmacys, over the counter. It was like visiting Mexico.

LSUMama on June 29, 2009 at 10:56 AM

Ann NY on June 29, 2009 at 8:18 AM

Ann, on a side note when I was down with herniated disks and sciatiica, the fastest way to heal was and is walking in pool thirty mins a day. I hope you are well now ,but if not walking in the pool will speed your recovery up. Also helps mobility. That kind of pain can really bring you low.Good Luck.

LSUMama on June 29, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Hamilton, Ontario, Canada is the 9th largest metro in Canada. It hardly qualifies as sparsely populated. Furthermore, the article states that they checked for an open NICU bed across the entire province and came up empty. That’s when they sent the baby across the border for treatment

Not only is Hamilton a large city, they also have a medical school there – McMaster. This is one of 5 med schools in Ontario, the most populous province. DISGRACEFUL

Single payer only allows a person to get on a list for care – not to get the care they need. Getting on a list is free! Big freaking deal.

That is why I left 30 years ago.

txdoc on June 29, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Praying for the baby. Hopefully everything will turn out right for this family.

unclesmrgol on June 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Hamilton, Ontario, Canada is the 9th largest metro in Canada. It hardly qualifies as sparsely populated. Furthermore, the article states that they checked for an open NICU bed across the entire province and came up empty. That’s when they sent the baby across the border for treatment

Not only is Hamilton a large city, they also have a medical school there – McMaster. This is one of 5 med schools in Ontario, the most populous province. DISGRACEFUL

Single payer only allows a person to get on a list for care – not to get the care they need. Getting on a list is free! Big freaking deal.

That is why I left 30 years ago.

txdoc on June 29, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Health care is rationed here…that’s why it doesn’t serve the needs of the populace. Wait until the U.S. has rationed health care…you won’t believe the mess you will soon be in.

But don’t worry; the tame media lapdogs on the left will soon be filling the MSM with stories about government health care “successes;” you’ll feel better just reading them!

Slightly off topic: the left’s idea of “cap and trade” for energy is nothing more than energy rationing. If you think the Canadian health care system is a mess, because it is rationed, just wait until you have both rationed health care AND rationed energy!!

rightsideupinthegwn on June 29, 2009 at 12:37 PM

No wonder so many Canadians are apposed to the USofA copying their health care system. What will they do when there are not any beds available here ether.

darktood on June 29, 2009 at 2:05 PM

Canada saves it’s money by having us protect them and when a tough medical case comes along, by healing their people. Yet the ingrates often whine anti-American slogans.

Jeff from WI on June 29, 2009 at 3:39 PM

Canada saves it’s money by having us protect them and when a tough medical case comes along, by healing their people. Yet the ingrates often whine anti-American slogans.

Jeff from WI on June 29, 2009 at 3:39 PM

But there are PLENTY of us up here who appreciate what the U.S. does for us (and the rest of the world). The whiners are a very vocal minority, aided and abetted by our MSM (especially the CBC), which is is even more lefty than yours.

rightsideupinthegwn on June 29, 2009 at 3:59 PM

Lili, best wishes to you and your daughter. I hope her kidney surgery goes well — and soon.

KyMouse on June 29, 2009 at 5:48 PM

Surely the US and Canada can agree to temporary measures that will allow the parents to cross the border, even if under embassy supervision and security, to join their child.

We already have a system where you can ask for an official letter from your countries embassy stating the need to travel rapidly in a time horizon that is shorter than that needed to get a passport done. In rush circumstances I’ve known people to get them in under 2 days if they show up to pick them up themselves. Not too bad I would say.

The author of the article skirting over the fact that Canada’s extreme rationing is at fault here is as egregious a sin of omission as you are likely to see. The rationing of care the way Canada does is one thing I fear more than anything if ObamaCare is passed as is. (and Canada does it more strictly than anyone else, private insurance is completely forbidden unlike in a country like Germany who actually has a decent in terms of budget hit ‘universal’ care system but also allows those who can afford it the opportunity to have private insurance intead…even then guess who gets the better of the care in Germany?)

MannyT-vA on June 29, 2009 at 6:39 PM

whoops countries = country’s

Gotta stop trying to type at work during down times! :)

MannyT-vA on June 29, 2009 at 6:40 PM

I feel like I am watching a train wreck in slow motion and I am powerless to stop it. Why does any sane person even consider giving up the best system in the world in exchange for… Oh it makes so little sense.

petunia on June 30, 2009 at 3:30 AM

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