Video: Ezra Klein in 2008 on “sneaky” stalking horse of a public plan
posted at 4:10 pm on June 26, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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As Morgen Richmond does, I like Ezra Klein. He’s unmistakably and unapologetically liberal, but he’s honest, and on the couple of occasions I’ve chatted with him, a friendly and reasonable guy. Even when he disagrees with me, he generally gives me credit for not being disingenuous as well, and argues on facts rather than strawmen. That’s why when Morgen put up this video from 2008 at Verum Serum, I give Ezra credit for explaining explicitly what the “public plan” in ObamaCare is — a “sneaky” stalking horse for single-payer:
Got that? Everything conservatives have been saying about the public plan is true, and that’s just fine with Ezra. He’d like to throw tens of thousands of people out of work and collapse an entire industry, one that satisfies over 80% of its clients mind you, because he doesn’t care for it. So instead of actually arguing for its elimination, as Ezra does more honestly than most of his colleagues, they trot out a “public plan” that Ezra concedes will do covertly what he wants to do overtly.
As far as disagreeing with me, though, Ezra is just a little less honest this time:
There’s really no reason to think Ed Morrissey actually believes Obama is proposing a health system in which people are legally barred from purchasing care beyond what their insurers would provide. Ed’s a smart guy. He follows politics. And he certainly doesn’t offer any evidence for such a view. But his post takes it as a given that that is in fact what Obama is proposing.
So it was OK for progressives to deduce in 2008 that Obama’s health-care proposals were really just stalking horses for eliminating private insurance altogether, but Ezra’s puzzled when conservatives deduce it in 2009? Plus, if Obama (or Ezra) got to wipe insurance companies out with the stroke of a pen or through a stalking-horse strategy of a “public plan,” then the only people who could take advantage of what would be left of private care would be … who? Those wealthy enough to pay full price out of pocket. Well, that’s certainly egalitarian!
Besides, Obama seems to at least appreciate locking out private transactions altogether, and that’s not a terribly difficult deduction, either. If you accept Ezra’s view (and mine) that the public plan is a stalking horse for single payer, then that’s Step 1. Step 2 would be Obama’s praise for the Canadian system, which does bar private insurance, and whose providers are all in the government system. Canadians who want private care have to leave … and come to the United States. And that makes his stated intent to use his money to get what he would wind up denying most other Americans very hypocritical.
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What an asshole. Thinking that the government exists to destroy the existence of legal businesses.
lorien1973 on June 26, 2009 at 4:16 PM
So where is the GOP on fighting this? Any ads out there that actually connect the dots? Despite the Dems huge numbers, we should be able to defeat all these boondoggles, but it seems as if we’re the only one’s who really care.
El_Terrible on June 26, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Any bill that you have to lie about its intent is, by definition, a bad one.
lorien1973 on June 26, 2009 at 4:18 PM
If you have to lie to get it passed and even with the lie you only get tepid public support, it means you have no business even bringing it up for a vote.
myrenovations on June 26, 2009 at 4:18 PM
If, as Democrats say, health care is a “right”, then how can they morally prevent someone from obtaining health care privately, and how can they prevent a doctor from providing the service or an insurer from insuring it?
Kenrod on June 26, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Because they believe that rights come from the state.
myrenovations on June 26, 2009 at 4:21 PM
One of your best posts…
right2bright on June 26, 2009 at 4:21 PM
…and of course NONE of us think that if this plan succeeds, that the health care industry would not become more completely unionized like the Post Office, AMTRAK or GM?
Want a disgruntled US union employee in charge of your health care decisions?
Want to give corrupt, lame unions more power? Go ahead.
ElRonaldo on June 26, 2009 at 4:21 PM
So it’s all about winning and not the real issue, healthcare.
txag92 on June 26, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Should I know who Ezra Klein is?
txag92 on June 26, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Steele… Steele ? Is Steele present today?
jjshaka on June 26, 2009 at 4:25 PM
My new health insurance plan is to NOT get sick period
.
Is this of interest to anyone:
WASHINGTON DC Rally Sat June 27,11am-5pm,Iran Int.sect. 2209 Wisconsin Ave NW
http://twitter.com/lotfan/status/2346098706
& here:
http://protests.sharearchy.com/protests/98-Candlelight-Vigil-Poetry-and-traditional-music-to-remember-those-killed-in-Iran
lobosan5 on June 26, 2009 at 4:25 PM
They brought up CAP and TAX under the same circumstances so why won’t they bring up this obscenity.
chemman on June 26, 2009 at 4:26 PM
By trotting out the lie that 47 million people are uninsured.
Why are you kissing up to this tool, Ed? The 47 million number is a myth.
lorien1973 on June 26, 2009 at 4:29 PM
I think they will. Unless it looks like it is going to be a horrible embarassment, then they will take it off of the table to work on a better set of lies.
myrenovations on June 26, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Translation: He is open about his disdain for the Constitution and for the personal freedom of individual Americans… if he had his way, he’d destroy what the Founders designed and envisioned… but, golly, you just gotta admire a guy who sticks to his convictions!
Blech!
mankai on June 26, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Sure the public plan is a dishonest device to destroy the private insurance industry contrary to the current wishes of the voting public, but that is only because they do not know what is good for them. Ezra is so super smart that he knows better. That is why even though he is an honest honorable guy he will support this dishonest plan… Stop being so paranoid and just trust your betters.
tommylotto on June 26, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Well, Klein is honest to the extent that he has no moral qualms whatsoever about lying to the public to achieve his goals. He says he’ll lie, and then he does.
Ed, that is not a virtue.
av8tr on June 26, 2009 at 4:40 PM
I wish someone would REALLY explain the lie of “47 million uninsured”….
Health Care Lie: ‘47 Million Uninsured Americans’
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx
Breaking It Down: Who’s Uninsured?
The number of the uninsured who aren’t citizens is nearly 10 million on its own, invalidating all the claims of 40+ million “Americans” without health insurance.
They Can’t Afford Insurance …
Many of the same people pushing the incorrect numbers of uninsured Americans also claim that these people cannot “afford” insurance.
But according to the same Census report, there are 8.3 million uninsured people who make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year and 8.74 million who make more than $75,000 a year. That’s roughly 17 million people who ought to be able to “afford” health insurance because they make substantially more than the median household income of $46,326.
Subtracting non-citizens and those who can afford their own insurance but choose not to purchase it, about 20 million people are left – less than 7 percent of the population.
A Lie that Promotes Big Government
“Proponents of universal health care often use the 46-million figure — without context or qualification. It creates the false impression that a huge percentage of the population has fallen through the cracks,” Gratzer told BMI. “Again, that’s not to suggest that there is no problem, but it’s very different than the universal-care crowd describes.”
So what is the true extent of the uninsured “crisis?” The Kaiser Family Foundation, a liberal non-profit frequently quoted by the media, puts the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for current government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 13.9 million and 8.2 million. That is a much smaller figure than the media report.
Kaiser’s 8.2 million figure for the chronically uninsured only includes those uninsured for two years or more. It is also worth noting, that, 45 percent of uninsured people will be uninsured for less than four months according to the Congressional Budget Office.
izoneguy on June 26, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Just like higher taxes on “the rich” isn’t about revenue generation, but about fairness (so says The One).
On the healthcare issue, one of my favorite recent sneaky questions from Barry is when he asks, ‘If everyone thinks government health insurance is so bad, why are they worried about it competing with the private market?’
Of course, he’s smarter than to ask such a misleading question, and knows it’s misleading. There won’t be a private market; government is never an equal player – they cannot both play by the rules and make the rules in a way that’s fair to everyone. And government-run healthcare won’t crowd out private care because it’s better (it won’t be), but because it will be cheaper because it’s subsidized by you and me, and private companies will not be able to exist profitably.
Further, what most pols overlook is that the existing public market (Medicare, Medicaid) relies on the private insurance market to essentially subsidize the loss they take on government care. Reimbursements are typically below market, forcing the insurers to make up the difference in the private market.
redfoxbluestate on June 26, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Thank we often lose an argument because we never challenge the underlying facts libs trot out and repeat over and over.
dpierson on June 26, 2009 at 4:47 PM
I have a lot of questions:
If (like Medicare) the Public Plan will pay providers some abritrary figure for services delivered; won’t providers eventually go bankrupt? Why would any Dr. continue their practice in this scenario? Wouldn’t they all hang up their stethoscopes and become fishermen or something? How can hospitals stay in business when costs exceed revenue?
If reducing cost is really the goal, then wouldn’t the “base” costs need to be reduced first? (i.e. the equipment, supplies, drugs, facilities, labor costs)
Or is the “stalking horse” the eventuality that all Doctors, Hospitals etc become government entities? In that scenario, how will the Hospital’s investors or owners be reimbursed when the gov’t seizes their assets? Who will pay the Dr.s massive student loan debts when they become employees of the gov’t?
I just don’t get it. I guess my problem is: I can see the logic in capitalism; but socialism confuses me.
kooly on June 26, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Mr. Klein’s idealism gets in the way of his ability to fully think this issue through.
paraff on June 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Wrong! They are future Democrats, hence, they are soon-to-be citizens.
Wrong! Under Obama, you don’t get to make choices anymore.
”
Well DUH! You just nullified your entire argument. The media will NEVER report that number (8.2 million to 13 million) because it doesn’t sound a scary as 50 million insured!
/sarc
VibrioCocci on June 26, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Nothing honest and open about Klein’s “JournoList” media echo chamber, which imo is nothing more than a sneaky, underhanded, covert way to advance left wing talking points throughout all forms of media.
OxyCon on June 26, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Fighting hard to prop up their political careers. With goodies for their constituents. And themselves.
spmat on June 26, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Sometimes I wonder about your statements Ed. Perhaps it is something I could not peg you earlier for. That is no longer the case. Erza Klein honesty? Obviously you are not persuaded to his side but damn when “Ezra concedes he will do covertly for what he wants to do overtly” that is just plain deception beyond belief. Content of your character, and not on superficial impressions comes to mind when trying to understand Erza Klein. He is an anti-capitalist which makes him un-american. Adversarial also figures into this mans mindset. I told you yesterday “judge not lest ye be judged” but apparently there are exceptions to every rule. Erza Klein fulfills the exception rule.
Americannodash on June 26, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Liberals always let idealogy get in the way of facts & logic.
Without an “emotional” argument they have nothing.
Liberals are feeling like with Obama this is there chance to
break through. You must fight the Idollogy in addition to the lies.
izoneguy on June 26, 2009 at 5:03 PM
The goodies will be the poison that kills in the end.
You cannot live your life by sucking the life out of other people.
The liberal house of cards is on the verge of collapse.
They cannot get away with passing bad legislation into law.
If we let them get away with it then all of America will collapse.
izoneguy on June 26, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Add this attempt to lie to the people, in order to destroy the private sector and further empower the federal government to control the lives of the citizenry, to the already long list of high crimes and misdemeanors that The Precedent has committed while in office. Sentencing and execution of sentence cannot happen soon enough.
progressoverpeace on June 26, 2009 at 5:11 PM
Seriously?
What about every bad piece of legislation that has been passed just since the first of the year?
VibrioCocci on June 26, 2009 at 5:11 PM
They will own the results…Obama is snake-oil salesman and tricked the public into a false sense of security. Now some democrats are starting to realize they have been fed hogwash as well. The public is waking up and now is the time to stop what is going on or the government will own much more of your life then you can imagine. – Even if you did vote for Obama.
izoneguy on June 26, 2009 at 5:24 PM
They cannot get away with passing bad legislation into law.
izoneguy on June 26, 2009 at 5:06 PM
.
Seriously?
What about every bad piece of legislation that has been passed just since the first of the year?
VibrioCocci on June 26, 2009 at 5:11 PM
.
Next time you cut & paste something do it right. His follow on staement answers your question.
Americannodash on June 26, 2009 at 5:28 PM
Although I realize you can never be sure with callers to a radio show, a gentleman saying he was an doctor from Canada that moved to the U.S. called Rush’s show today. He said that originally the Canadian plan started off as a government plan along side of a private plan but when the government plan ran out of money they just co-opted the private plan. I wish someone who knows the history of Canada’s system would verify whether this is true or not.
Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 5:44 PM
The government “elites” know what is best for the commoner. I can hardly wait to see what sort of medical plan Congress will reserve for itself.
GarandFan on June 26, 2009 at 5:47 PM
vibrio = fermentative
cocci = pieces
*statement
Americannodash on June 26, 2009 at 5:48 PM
In a former life I did business as a general contractor with the city I live in. A couple of years after I quit doing that, the city passed a law that said they would only do business with companies that provided health care/insurance for each and every one of their workers, whether that worker worked on the contract or not. No business that didn’t provide health insurance could do any business with the city.
Do you think that meant that small, minority owned, independent businesses could do work for the city and make a profit? Did the cost for any work done by contract go down?
Nope. Single payer will turn out like the TSA – take off your shoes.
TinMan13 on June 26, 2009 at 5:57 PM
We can jump up and down all we want, waving all the stats that clearly show why health care and cap and trade are terrible legislation but it will be to no avail.
Even the folks that like their health care still voted for Obama. There are no innocents. Left or right we all knew what the Dems plans were. They swept the elections and now these things are probably all going to pass with more coming. Open borders/amnesty, pro Islamic agreements, warm relations with revolutionary Marxists, reparations, activists judges taking over the Supreme court for beginners. These are just a few of the many, all of which will be passed in the first four years. Even if he loses in 2012 the damage will be generational.
When someone says the “bridge to nowhere” didn’t really cost anything straighten them out.
patrick neid on June 26, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Ed 1
Ezra 0
Next round!
percysunshine on June 26, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Read this post by this same douche. Foul language and all.
keep the change on June 26, 2009 at 6:59 PM
The problem the GOP has with their own argument is obvious, and O actually said it. So you want more medical expenses because it’s good for the country?
Say what?
AnninCA on June 26, 2009 at 7:02 PM
Ezra Klein, Naomi Klein (no relation) what is it with these Klein people?
keep the change on June 26, 2009 at 7:03 PM
Even if it’s the 50 MILLION uninsured figure put forth by the liars, Why fundamentally change the system for 85% of the people because 15% are underinsured????????????????? It’s nonsense. It’s a scam! Who doesn’t see this? Man, 2010 is gonna be a bloodbath at the polls. The libs have overstepped by a factor of 10.
marklmail on June 26, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Most people are vastly underinsured.
AnninCA on June 26, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Ann, you’ve proven time and again you don’t know what you’re talking about, so you might as well limit your comments to things that are obviously just your opinion.
Does it bother you at all that you’re being manipulated and lied to?
DrSteve on June 26, 2009 at 7:52 PM
And that’s really what it all boils down to. When the government subsidizes something, be it healthcare or education or housing, the cost goes up — FOR EVERYONE! When government gets out of the way and lets the free market do its thing, the cost (theoretically, b/c once govt. gets involved it’s forever) comes down.
This thing will be a disaster of epic proportions. Those of us with personal experience with Medicare, Medicaid, and VA have had but a taste of the advancing nightmare of govt.-sponsored healthcare.
NoLeftTurn on June 26, 2009 at 8:19 PM
I don’t believe in most health insurance, either. Every household in a health care system should pay a monthly fee to that health care system directly rather along the lines of paying utilities, but a constant fee.
Why we pay into city and county stuff like fire, police, roads, schools, etc. but not into our local hospitals is beyond me.
Doesn’t matter though. If it’s not about health system monopolies and lawyers, it comes down to politicians.
Screwed either way.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 26, 2009 at 8:56 PM
This has not been my experience.
Jim Treacher on June 27, 2009 at 12:18 AM
Anne can be reasonable on a lot of issues but not this one. I have to assume this is something that hits very close to home for her.
Cindy Munford on June 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM
I’ve been a Community Organizer, know Community Organizers and Single Payer is the most talked about plan. It will not only be public, it will be the only plan. It will include rationing of benefits for old fogies like myself but will allow for a pill to end my suffering as he PLAINLY stated in his infomercial. But nobody is listening, but every body grows old if they are lucky.
Herb on June 27, 2009 at 12:49 PM
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