Could Iran restart democracy movements in Arab world?

posted at 10:55 am on June 26, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

If a regime as repressive as the Iranian theocracy can’t keep democracy activists from staging massive protests over a rigged election, could Arab nations see similar movements in the near future?  The Washington Post reports that people throughout the Middle East have watched events unfold in Iran with awe and more than a little envy.  But they are sure of one thing — the current administration will be of little use to them in promoting reform:

Across the Arab world, Iran’s massive opposition protests have triggered a wave of soul-searching and conflicting emotions. Many question why their own reform movements are unable to rally people to rise up against unpopular authoritarian regimes. In Egypt, the cradle of what was once the Arab world’s most ambitious push for democracy, Iran’s protests have served as a reminder of how much the notion has unraveled under President Hosni Mubarak, who has ruled the country for 30 years.

“I am extremely jealous,” said Nayra El Sheikh, 28, a blogger and Sharkawy’s wife. “I can’t help but think: Why not us? What do they have that we don’t have? Do they have more guts?”

The frustration comes against a backdrop of deep-rooted skepticism among pro-democracy activists that U.S. policies under President Obama will help transform the region, despite his vow to engage the Muslim world in a highly publicized speech here last month. Some view Obama’s response to Iran’s protests, muted until Tuesday, as a harbinger of U.S. attitudes toward their own efforts to reform their political systems. The Egyptian government, they note, is a key American ally, and U.S. pressure on Egypt for reforms began subsiding in the last years of the Bush administration.

“When Obama does not take a stance, the very next day these oppressive regimes will regard this as a signal. This is a test for his government,” said Ayman Nour, a noted Egyptian opposition politician who was recently released from jail. “If they can turn a blind eye to their enemy, they can turn a blind eye to any action here in Egypt.”

Barack Obama finally did issue the kind of strong signal we expected, about a week later, which is a signal of another kind.  The world watched the US to see what we would do, to see what values we would defend outside our own self-interest.  In the event, our President made it clear that he valued dealing with the regimes rather than supporting democratization, even through non-violent means.

Obama’s supporters defended his inaction, claiming that any show of support would stigmatize the Iranian opposition.  The problem, however, is that Obama’s insistence that he wanted to work with the mullahs gave the regime more legitimacy, and disheartened those who want to bring hope and change to the Middle East.  And for what?  The mullahs blame the CIA anyway, and have from the start insisted that the protesters are part of a Western plot arranged by the US and Great Britain.  Oddly, though, Obama’s supporters have been busy trying to convince people that Obama had always talked this strongly about the Iranian protests, turning on a dime from before Tuesday when they stoutly defended his diffidence as wise realpolitik.

Those fighting for democracy in oppressive regimes expect more from America than cozying up to oppressors.  “Engagement” to them sounds an awful lot like “propping up the dictators,” a policy that keeps them chained.  Iran shows them that they’ll have no support from the US if they plan on reforming the Middle East, not unless Obama gets dragged to the podium for even a condemnation of human-rights violations.  That was the message Barack Obama sent the world over the past two weeks.

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But they are sure of one thing — the current administration will be of little use to them in promoting reform

What about those magic bullets Obama is smuggling to the protesters via the terrorist-assassination group known as the Gladiators? Huh?
/

Disturb the Universe on June 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Iran might, and inspiration from Iraq might, but you know people looking at American policies right now will be disinclined to move towards Democracy.

hawksruleva on June 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Thank You “W”

redrock on June 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM

It’s a good thing Obama started this with his Cairo speech

/sarc

ThackerAgency on June 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Hope & Chains – the traditional tools used by Democrats on the people who support them. Only the Chains are used on their opponents.

hawksruleva on June 26, 2009 at 11:00 AM

“When Obama does not take a stance, the very next day these oppressive regimes will regard this as a signal. This is a test for his government,” said Ayman Nour, a noted Egyptian opposition politician who was recently released from jail. “If they can turn a blind eye to their enemy, they can turn a blind eye to any action here in Egypt.”

This is exactly how appeasement works, and exactly what Obama is doing throughout the Muslim world. He is abandoning those seeking political and religious reformation. And what are we going to get in exchange for this approach? More terror.

Loxodonta on June 26, 2009 at 11:00 AM

no no no…its not Iraq which lead to Iran…

its Barry’s Cairo speech DUH!!!!

alexraye on June 26, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Neocons: right about everything.

BohicaTwentyTwo on June 26, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Has anyone noticed the increase of suicide bombings in Iraq?

mjbrooks3 on June 26, 2009 at 11:03 AM

In a decade, perhaps less, that “Evil Booosh” toppling of Saddam will be looked back on as the pivotal moment in the Middle East. Lebanon moved closer to civil government…and the murmurs across the region, as in Iran, are growing into voices…soon to be loud ones.

That Cairo speech? Will become a non-event, provided the Left doesn’t succeed once more in rewriting history as it happens.

At the risk of sounding a bit Maoist, the voice of the people is the strongest horse…dictatorships and theocracy, soon to be seen as a weak cowering horse.

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

I don’t see how protesters getting massacred in Iran, with Obama standing mute, will have anything other than a chilling effect on other countries.

Rebar on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

A little OT, although not entirely: Caught this on the Weekly Standard blog page, twitters from a bunch of their contributers. This one was linked by Michael Goldfarb.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/06/2009624225744811593.html

WS blog at http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/

So the foreign relations expert Brent Scowcroft goes on Al Jazeera, and says that, sure, we have spies in Iran. And that he didn’t know if they were participating in or organizing the protests, but, gee, they could be. Holy SH1T! He just handed the mullahs the club to beat down the protest. An advisor to Dear Leader has suggested the the US may in fact be behind the protests, so they have carte blanche to start killing the protesters. Well done.

iurockhead on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

It’s a good thing Obama started this with his Cairo speech

/sarc

ThackerAgency on June 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM

You’re a tool. But that was funny.

The Race Card on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

And Obooba gets all the credit. It was his Cairo Speech, dontcha know.

Akzed on June 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM

History will be far kinder to W than the traitors in our midst have been.

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Let’s hope not. Most arab rulers are better than their crazy populations. Syria? Sure, why not. But Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia? No thanks.

Darth Executor on June 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Of course Obama wants to reverse it – this is the Bush foreign policy “cowboy diplomacy” legacy, and it’s working.

That’s a political inconvenience for the “NO WAR NOW OR EVER BUSH SUXOR” Democrats, of whom Obama was one (Obama voted against the Iraq liberation, as he’s been apt to remind everyone for years).

History will owe an apology and even a debt of gratitude to BOOSH, and that’s what the Democrats don’t want.

Bush was right, Obama was wrong. Sux for the trolls, don’t it?

Good Lt on June 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM

It’s a good thing Obama started this with his Cairo speech

……….

Lucky you!

You got an advanced copy of future history books.

That’s how it will be portrayed.

artist on June 26, 2009 at 11:06 AM

You’re a tool. But that was funny.

The Race Card on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

I think I’ll buy you new knee pads for your birthday. The ones you have right now must have worn out already.

Darth Executor on June 26, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Bush doctrine is paying dividends

heroyalwhyness on June 26, 2009 at 11:06 AM

redrock on June 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM

+ 1

mz.josephine on June 26, 2009 at 11:06 AM

Has anyone noticed the increase of suicide bombings in Iraq?

mjbrooks3 on June 26, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Yes.

4shoes on June 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM

Thank You “W”

redrock on June 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Dittos.

Loxodonta on June 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM

Weenie Diplomacy:
Unclench your fist and have a hot dog.

Disturb the Universe on June 26, 2009 at 11:10 AM

I wouldn’t hold your breath about Democracy in Iran or other middle eastern countries. They’ll all end up voting in the extremest government sooner or later. It’s just like Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. People in these countries WANT Shari’a law. Go to Robert Spencer’s Jihadwatch if you don’t believe me.

nazo311 on June 26, 2009 at 11:10 AM

I have no doubt this will be placed on Obama’s resume in 2012 as something he proactively sought and was responsible for.

Thunderstorm129 on June 26, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Protesters: Help us, Hussein.
Hussein: LOL

LibTired on June 26, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Can America restart democracy HERE?

Star20 on June 26, 2009 at 11:11 AM

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Do you think the Iranian people will overthrow the tyrants this year?

Loxodonta on June 26, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Could Iran restart democracy movements in Arab world?

All because of Obama…that will be what is reported, he gave them an opportunity to express themselves without intervening…I can almost see the headlines now, good Lord.

right2bright on June 26, 2009 at 11:13 AM

What a great time to have a communist dictator for a US president, eh?

Daggett on June 26, 2009 at 11:13 AM

Could Iran restart democracy movements in Arab world?

Persians aren’t Arabs. They have a pre-Islamic past to draw on, if they wish to. Watch for that.

Also, Egyptians used to be offended to be called Arabs. Arabs were from Arabia, and inhabited places like that, and Jordan, and Syria and Iraq. An Eqyptian was something superior, also inheritor of a nation with a proud pre-Islamic history.

Also, there are Sunni/Shi’a politics at play as well.

There are so many fractures in the muslim world. That’s good. It keeps Islam from being as dangerous as it could otherwise be. I’m hoping that in the end, Islam itself goes through its reformation as a result of all this. Bin Laden might have started something whose outcome is the opp. of what he intended.

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Can America restart democracy HERE?

Star20 on June 26, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Kinda ironic, ain’t it?

Maybe we should take a few lessons from those Iranians, and Lebanese and others, who actually put their money where their mouth is and do something to bring real Change, based on honest Hope?

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:14 AM

If Iran becomes democratic it will be solely due to the Won’s Cairo speech.

If it does not and the mullah’s crack down harder it will be due solely to BUSHHHHHH!

jukin on June 26, 2009 at 11:15 AM

iurockhead on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

Is Brent Scowcroft still in “the loop”? I doubt it. If he is then he shouldn’t be running his mouth. He probably has a financial stake in Iran’s current administration. Very bad form, these “suggestions”.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Loxodonta on June 26, 2009 at 11:12 AM

Closest they’ve been in 30 years. Plenty of tinder and fuel laying alll over Iran…a few more sparks and the pending massacre at Q’om will make the Mahdi’s Khartoum look like a day at the day care center. The mullahs are so…so like the 70′s…

The Mullahs have reached a point where if they crack down even harder, they’ll only serve to fracture and crack the facade even more.

This year? I’m willing to take that bet.

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM

In a decade, perhaps less, that “Evil Booosh” toppling of Saddam will be looked back on as the pivotal moment in the Middle East. Lebanon moved closer to civil government…and the murmurs across the region, as in Iran, are growing into voices…soon to be loud ones.

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

I tried to make this argument a little over a year ago. I think history will treat Bush very well. Unless, of course, it is rewritten.

InCali on June 26, 2009 at 11:19 AM

I think women are going to be the big push in the Arab world. They can’t keep the world outside anymore and it’s hard for me to believe that these women want to hundreds of years behind. It’s a waste and they know it. I don’t know if anyone has notice but women can be a tad bitchy. Even those who might get beat up.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Can America restart democracy HERE?

Star20 on June 26, 2009 at 11:11 AM

If Obamacare and Cap&Trade passes in the U.S. no country will want to emulate us, we will have reduced ourselves to the ash heap of history.

fourdeucer on June 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM

In a decade, perhaps less, that “Evil Booosh” toppling of Saddam will be looked back on as the pivotal moment in the Middle East

prompted by bin Laden, and those that enabled him.

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM

I don’t see how protesters getting massacred in Iran, with Obama standing mute, will have anything other than a chilling effect on other countries.

Rebar on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM

I think it goes back to a saying that’s been used in these threads lately. That it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees (or something like that). Obama isn’t helping, but the fact that others are envious even still, points to their serious frustration with the status quo.

Sadly, it seems the time is ripe for change, but without help, I can’t seem them succeeding.

History will be far kinder to W than the traitors in our midst have been.

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Considering how they treated him, I can’t imagine it possible for it to be otherwise. But seeing what the opposition will do is surely helping.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 11:22 AM

I don’t know if anyone has notice but women can be a tad bitchy. Even those who might get beat up.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:20 AM

I’d say especially those who might get beaten. They live with that threat no matter what they do, so there really isn’t much to lose.

Still, watching how some Muslims act in free counties like Britain, continuing to wear the burka, gives me pause.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM

If Obamacare and Cap&Trade passes in the U.S. no country will want to emulate us, we will have reduced ourselves to the ash heap of history.

fourdeucer on June 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Can’t count out the blowback. It might be awesome, and re-ignite feelings of patriotism and civics. Keep the faith.

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM

Thanks for that hopeful outlook, because if the mullahs succeed in suppressing the Iranian people, that will surely embolden the other tyrants of the region.

Loxodonta on June 26, 2009 at 11:26 AM

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM

From your mouth to God’s ear.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:28 AM

Obama is not the great hope of the Muslim people. George W. Bush was.
They are finally waking up to that fact. Obama lumps all Muslims togethet,
George W. Bush understood that Radical Islam was the problem, they also happen to be Muslim. Obama has a hard time in calling out the radicals in the Muslim world. Will I don’t have a problem in calling out the radicals in American government.

izoneguy on June 26, 2009 at 11:32 AM

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM
From your mouth to God’s ear.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:28 AM
I second that. I do have faith in God, in my own convictions
and in our constitution.

fourdeucer on June 26, 2009 at 11:33 AM

Too bad we have a Chamberlain at the helm, when we need a Churchill.

reaganaut on June 26, 2009 at 11:36 AM

Here’s a two-for-the-price-of-one vid…Beat It!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOx4avw8WY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgatewaypundit.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded

CPT. Charles on June 26, 2009 at 11:36 AM

You Get The Nukes-We get to WithdrawObama has tried to cut a deal with Ayatolla Khameanie. Iran lets us pull out of Iraq without a problem. Iran controls the Iraqi Shiite, manipulates the govt. direct and with terror proxies. Same for our supply lines from the north, so our guys could be bottled up in the bases by a hostile population armed by Iran. In return Iran gets the nukes, Obama will keep Israel at bay and focus on Afganistan (whish is in our supply line anyway). We also won’t interfere in the Iranian power consolidation.

The “election” was planned to expose any university or progressive elements left that might cause a problem for the Iran dictatorship. There is no democracy in a theocracy- not possible. Now that any dissenters have shown themselves the same old movie will be replayed, hands and heads roll, trucks take them away, and back to business.

What Obama doesn’t get is you cannot make deals with these terrorists islamic theocracies. They are failed systems, women can’t contribute, tech etc. The only way they survive is by terror, dictatorship of their own populations and propogandizing the population towards a common enemy. Nazi tactics. They are strong and the strongest survive. Already the Ayatolla has stabbed Obama in the back-failure, a slap in the face from Abbas by releasing murderers of Americans-failure, and Korea-failure and our S. American enemies-failure understand he is a little prince.

Much of the US military is beginning to detest this guy who reads rights and rewards the enemy and while paying lip service to our veterans as well. I expect him to try to pressure Israel as a last resort to show he is not a failure on all fronts. Of course that will fail too because 1)you cannot cut deals with hamas and 2)even left wing Israelis won’t lie down on a railraod track with an oncoming train in plain sight.

As for American Jews, 80% would vote for Hitler if his name had a (D) after it. The (D) is for denial, not democrat. Regardless, he will bring enough damage to this country that one term will be it.

Reality Check on June 26, 2009 at 11:37 AM

I second that. I do have faith in God, in my own convictions
and in our constitution.

fourdeucer on June 26, 2009 at 11:33 AM

That’s exactly the way I feel. And some lucky red-staters prob. have faith in their neighbors as well. I’ve read about that :)

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2009 at 11:37 AM

If the statistics from Egypt are accurate, I don’t think what we’re seeing in Iran could be replicated there with any success.

Iran’s population is young, but relatively well educated and technology is available on a wide enough scale to give flash demonstations and protests a critical mass.

Egypt on the other hand seems more primitive and less able to reach the point needed where an effort against Mubarak would be self-replicating. Thirty people heading to the local square to be met by a hundred riot police does not a revolution make.

Vatican Watcher on June 26, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM

I think the burka is a straw man and has been used as effectively. Since I don’t know any of these ladies I obviously can’t be sure but modesty or tradition shouldn’t be a cloak for intelligence and the desire for the rights of all people. I don’t think what they wear has any or much impact on who they are and what they want.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Obama is not the great hope of the Muslim people. George W. Bush was.
They are finally waking up to that fact.

izoneguy on June 26, 2009 at 11:32 AM

Actually, most Muslims still don’t get it. I’ve been reading posts by one who is writing about what is going on in Iran, they referred to Bush and Cheney as America’s Basij. They also still don’t get that we liberated Iraq, they still see it as an invasion which killed Muslims.

There are some that do “get it,” but they are few and far between.

moonsbreath on June 26, 2009 at 11:57 AM

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM

A number of years ago, while traveling in the region, it was common to be on a flight from Amman or Cairo or Dubai to Frankfurt or Paris or London, and the women who boarded the plane in hijab or in chadorrahs would disappear into the bathroom once the plane had departed Jordanian, Egyptian or Emirates airspace and change into more comfortable clothing…and gotta tell you…top of the line Paris fashions, often skimpy, revealing…and then they’d get a Johnnie Walker, double, from the cabin stew.

The men? Proper Moslems all of them…would open their “duty free” as soon as the landing gear retracked and be drunk as hell before we even got out over the Med.

For those who say the burkha or hijab or chadorrah is a voluntary sign of modesty and respect…well, they are either deluded, deranged, or part of the oppressing class.

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:57 AM

Could Iran restart democracy movements in Arab world?

Not if Obama has any say in the matter.

CarolynM on June 26, 2009 at 11:58 AM

Irony of ironies.

Sarah Palin got an “F” because Katie Couric and Charlie Gibson thought she couldn’t define the Bush Doctrine.

Hey Katie, hey Charlie, got a sec? …

Your goddam Bush Doctrine is over there in the Iran uprising, and you’re letting your child-President take credit for it because you’re unprincipled, talent-lacking hacks.

jeff_from_mpls on June 26, 2009 at 11:58 AM

“I am extremely jealous,” said Nayra El Sheikh, 28, a blogger and Sharkawy’s wife. “I can’t help but think: Why not us? What do they have that we don’t have? Do they have more guts?”

I keep wondering if We the People also have what the Iranian freedom seekers have. Do we have the guts? or will we roll over with a sigh and let this travesty continue?

Not giving up, but certainly questioning just how many are left in the USA who recall the blood this great republic was founded upon and how easily it is being taken from us.

Miss Molly on June 26, 2009 at 12:00 PM

I think the burka is a straw man and has been used as effectively. Since I don’t know any of these ladies I obviously can’t be sure but modesty or tradition shouldn’t be a cloak for intelligence and the desire for the rights of all people. I don’t think what they wear has any or much impact on who they are and what they want.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM

An example of this in the West is the chapel veil. It was worn widely by female Catholics up to the reforms of the 1960s and has remained strong in traditional Catholic circles. Modesty as a custom ought not to be demonized just because of the garment’s misuse by the power elite. Not everyone wants to shed their cultural heritage and dress like a sexed up tramp.

Vatican Watcher on June 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Could Iran restart democracy movements in Arab world?
Answer: No.

Better question: Can dictators learn how to stop democracy movements by watching Iran?

Answer: Yes.

Dictators learn fast that one must totally destroy (as in kill the leaders, imprison and seriously injure the followers) of any opposition during any democratic-type uprising.
That is the lesson learned from China, Burma, Venezuela, Zimbabwe and again from Iran.
Plus they see that under Obama the US has withdrawn any type of support for democratic movements.

albill on June 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM

I don’t think what they wear has any or much impact on who they are and what they want.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM

Depends on whether or not they’re truly free to wear it. But even still, buying the idea that in order to be “modest” or “religious” one must cover from head to toe, because your body is just too dangerous to be seen, does betray a certain thought process that is, more often than not, conflicted with the ideals of freedom.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Not everyone wants to shed their cultural heritage and dress like a sexed up tramp.

Vatican Watcher on June 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM

I’m sorry, but there is a vast, vast difference between dressing like a “tramp” and wearing the burka.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:04 PM

iurockhead on June 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Is Brent Scowcroft still in “the loop”? I doubt it. If he is then he shouldn’t be running his mouth. He probably has a financial stake in Iran’s current administration. Very bad form, these “suggestions”.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 11:17 AM

.
He, along with Zbigniew Brzezinski, were described as “advising” 0 pre-inauguration. Don’t know what the connection is now. Either way, he’s an idiot.

iurockhead on June 26, 2009 at 12:07 PM

I’m sorry, but there is a vast, vast difference between dressing like a “tramp” and wearing the burka.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:04 PM

The cheap jezebels have an eyeslit, what more do they want?

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 12:08 PM

coldwarrior on June 26, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:03 PM

I was referring to the women who have moved to the West but as I said I don’t know a single Muslim woman. At least not that I know of. I just don’t want what these ladies wear to get in the way of the fight they have in front of them. It would probably be a plus to the fight not to stand out. Now if they all removed them in mass that might be a really strong sign.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:10 PM

iurockhead on June 26, 2009 at 12:07 PM

Then it makes you wonder if The Won is encouraging these rumors. More of him playing both sides of the fence while he in fact he does nothing.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:12 PM

Ah the virtues of the burqa, not allowing women to vote, drive, work in certain areas. Morality police and Supreme leaders. That failed culture in failed states has what? to offer us?
It’s over. Cleanup the stragglers. There will be no democracy in the ummah. Watch em continue to kill each other.

Reality Check on June 26, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Iran’s population is young, but relatively well educated and technology is available on a wide enough scale to give flash demonstations and protests a critical mass.

Look at photos of Tehran. It certainly doesn’t look like an Arab city.

JiangxiDad on June 26, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Modesty as a custom ought not to be demonized just because of the garment’s misuse by the power elite. Not everyone wants to shed their cultural heritage and dress like a sexed up tramp.

Vatican Watcher on June 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM

First you have to know the history of the burka and hijab. It has nothing to do with modesty, but with control. Women are considered inherently evil. Muhammad said there would be more women than men in hell.

Islam has a slew of Hadiths which foment violence against women.

moonsbreath on June 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM

Vatican Watcher on June 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Other expressions of cultural heritage we should not demonize: honor killing, genital mutilation, a woman’s testimony counting for half that of a man’s, a man’s ability to divorce his wife by simply saying “I divorce you” 3 times (while a woman must petition the clerics)…/

Disturb the Universe on June 26, 2009 at 12:22 PM

Iran can’t even restart democracy in Iran.

Speedwagon82 on June 26, 2009 at 12:23 PM

More Ed cluelessness pimping us on “democracy” in the Arab world. Yes, we really need more democracy like HAMAS’ election in Gaza. Ah, democracy and free elections in the Arab World. If there are free elections in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood will win. If there are free elections in Saudi Arabia, Bin Laden’s people will win, and our economy will collapse as they pull out their investments and refuse us oil.

This is what happens when ignoramuses on the Mid-East (a/k/a Ed) push Mid-Western values like “democracy” on the Mid-East. No surprise, though, since Ed also praised Obama’s speech on the Mid-East as “Surprisingly Good” and cheered on Hezbo Beunos Aires bombing mastermind Rafsanjani. Just read a newspaper. Even with the liberal BS, you’ll know more about the Mid-East than Ed. Sounds like he’s been getting advice again from his pan-Islamic friend, Grover Norquist.

Debbie Schlussel on June 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM

Modesty as a custom ought not to be demonized just because of the garment’s misuse by the power elite. Not everyone wants to shed their cultural heritage and dress like a sexed up tramp.

Vatican Watcher on June 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM

I believe modesty is a good value to promote among all people. But you don’t promote modesty by stoning women who do not completely cover themselves. Instead, you promote the treatment of women as subservient objects, and you promote fear and submission among women.

Loxodonta on June 26, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Er . . . I mean Ed praised Obama’s speech to the Muslim world as “Surprisingly Good.”

Debbie Schlussel on June 26, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Other expressions of cultural heritage we should not demonize: honor killing, genital mutilation, a woman’s testimony counting for half that of a man’s, a man’s ability to divorce his wife by simply saying “I divorce you” 3 times (while a woman must petition the clerics)…/

Disturb the Universe on June 26, 2009 at 12:22 PM

On the other side of the coin, expressions of American cultural heritage (yes, there really is such a thing) liberals readily demonize:
Flag wavers
Gun toters
Religion clingers

CarolynM on June 26, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Religion clingers

CarolynM on June 26, 2009 at 12:31 PM

They rather like those Koran clingers.

Disturb the Universe on June 26, 2009 at 12:33 PM

Meant to put Bible before strike.

Disturb the Universe on June 26, 2009 at 12:34 PM

Debbie Schlussel on June 26, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Don’t you have your own site?

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:35 PM

The cheap jezebels have an eyeslit, what more do they want?

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 12:08 PM

They should be lucky to even have that!

I was referring to the women who have moved to the West but as I said I don’t know a single Muslim woman. At least not that I know of. I just don’t want what these ladies wear to get in the way of the fight they have in front of them. It would probably be a plus to the fight not to stand out. Now if they all removed them in mass that might be a really strong sign.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:10 PM

I was speaking primarily about British women, but there are women even in America who aren’t free to leave their house without a burka. And whether all women agree or not, it is a symbol of oppression.

I completely agree with your last sentence.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:37 PM

Now if they all removed them in mass that might be a really strong sign.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:10 PM

I completely agree with your last sentence.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:37 PM

Only if they’re not hairy and flabby underneath.

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 12:42 PM

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 12:42 PM

Dude!!

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Is Rush reading Baldilocks on his show right now?

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:44 PM

If Tehran square was suddenly filled with sweaty Jabbas, even I’d vote for Sharia law

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 12:50 PM

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Never mind, but the message is very close.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:50 PM

I’m sorry, but there is a vast, vast difference between dressing like a “tramp” and wearing the burka.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:04 PM

If you went back in time in this country 50 years, they would think almost every woman was dressed like a tramp now. In the Middle East, even our most modest womens clothes would look slutty to them.

Speedwagon82 on June 26, 2009 at 12:50 PM

Could Iran restart democracy movements in Arab world?

Planting seeds.

If they’re cultivated, seeds don’t grow without care and nutrients.

Speakup on June 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 12:50 PM

LOL! Your terrible. That’s not the big picture you are suppose to be focusing on.

Cindy Munford on June 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM

If Tehran square was suddenly filled with sweaty Jabbas, even I’d vote for Sharia law

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 12:50 PM

I think we’re all pro-burka when it comes to Rosie O’Donald.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:52 PM

I think we’re all pro-burka when it comes to Rosie O’Donald Donnell.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:52 PM

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:53 PM

If you went back in time in this country 50 years, they would think almost every woman was dressed like a tramp now. In the Middle East, even our most modest womens clothes would look slutty to them.

Speedwagon82 on June 26, 2009 at 12:50 PM

Sure. Societal norms change over time, but that doesn’t excuse the burka. In no free society has that ever been considered modest. It’s a monstrosity.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 12:56 PM

I think that Catholic lacey head covering looks quite classy actually.

I also like the Amish/Mennonite prayer coverings in a ‘little house on the prairie’ kinda way.

Simpler, sweeter times.

LimeyGeek on June 26, 2009 at 1:03 PM

Has anyone noticed the increase of suicide bombings in Iraq?
mjbrooks3 on June 26, 2009 at 11:03 AM

Yes.
4shoes on June 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM

What’s going on in Iran started in Iraq. The terrorists and liberals are more desperate to “stabilize” the region now than they ever were before.

Obama keeps begging Iran’s Mullahs to squash these pro-democracy demonstrations, but the dictators are pissed that he hasn’t yet removed the giant thorn in their side that keeps riling up their subjects in the first place.

logis on June 26, 2009 at 1:06 PM

American Power tracked-back with, “Whoa Baby! Arab Activists Go Neocon! Diss Obama!”:

http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/woah-baby-arab-activists-go-neocon-diss.html

Donald Douglas on June 26, 2009 at 1:06 PM

“When Obama does not take a stance, the very next day these oppressive regimes will regard this as a signal. This is a test for his government,” said Ayman Nour, a noted Egyptian opposition politician who was recently released from jail. “If they can turn a blind eye to their enemy, they can turn a blind eye to any action here in Egypt.”

Wait a second. What about the vaunted Cairo effect? I thought he inspired the reformists in the Middle East to stick their necks out and oppose their regimes. I don’t get it. This sounds like the dissidents aren’t really inspired by The One, but more concerned that he will let them get crushed. I just don’t get it.

By the way, remember when Obama would talk about how many more enemies George Bush created for America with his cowboy diplomacy? Well, when the reformers and dissidents around the world watch Obama cozy up to their oppressors what are they going to think of America?

How many people in the Middle East, Venezuela and Cuba are going to feel betrayed by America? Their faith in America won’t be easily restored. He doesn’t realize it, but he is creating more negative feelings for America than George W Bush ever did.

JohnInCA on June 26, 2009 at 1:16 PM

Obama is more interested in not letting Bush be vindicated than acting in America’s interests.

amkun on June 26, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Obama is more interested in not letting Bush be vindicated than acting in America’s interests.

amkun on June 26, 2009 at 1:28 PM

Ironically, that’s part of what’s vindicating Bush.

Esthier on June 26, 2009 at 2:01 PM

oh wow. Watch this!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOx4avw8WY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2F

Mommypundit on June 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM

Who needs Democracy?

The important issues are universal health care and saving the planet.

Democracy is overrated. These guys need to get with the Obama program.

NoDonkey on June 26, 2009 at 2:07 PM

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