remember when Fiat came here as the YUGO

Jeff from WI on June 27, 2009 at 9:44 PM

Ya what a piece of shit car that was. The transmission stick was glued together. Obama will cause many american to die because of his meddling in auto business. Many Americans travel long distances and smaller cars with less power and weight will cause driver fatigue and accidents. Lower mass to protect the occupants resulting in higher deaths. Obama is a killer. When will people realize this is America is not Europe with small streets and local driving habits. We really have some very ignorant people in charge right now.

Some may know that GM sold the Saturn line to another owner, Penske. Will you be buying their cars, if not GM’s current products under Obama?

AND…I don’t know if you’ll buy Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, but, if Fiat comes back to the US, will you buy the current products under their badge? My parents recently rented a Fiat Punto, and found it worked like a charm. I don’t know about their products of yore, but since the mid-90s, they’ve improved considerably. In fact, I recommend you also take a look at the Fiat Multipla and Fiat Ducato-Maxi.

ericdijon on June 26, 2009 at 6:15 PM

Should have jumped to :55 as you suggested. Stopped watching when he food drunk kids funny.

YiZhangZhe on June 26, 2009 at 11:34 PM

Again, no arguments. I, too, mourn the loss of my England.

If they compete well enough can they run for a position and replace someone in the government?

PaCadle on June 26, 2009 at 10:39 PM

Yes. The process will be different to the process in a European democracy but of course it is possible. Not everybody has equal opportunities, but that is true of all nations. Even in egalitarian democracies some people are “more equal than others”.

… I do think it’s a shame that the China of old is no more. Where are the individual scholars, scientists, philosophers, inventors, and wise men of old? Perhaps I live in a time bubble, yearning for a world that existed only in my childhood books.

OldEnglish on June 26, 2009 at 11:07 PM

I have a lot of sympathy concerning that time-bubble but a lot of what has gone was horrible and the books never told the whole truth. If nothing else, the adoption of the flushing toilet and sewage processing plants should be celebrated.

Also, where is the Europe of my childhood books? Nowhere to be found. The whole world is suffering from a plague of uniformity and conformity as technology reduces the physical and geographic barriers between communities. The invention of the ‘Limited Company’ has allowed groups to form that can outlive any mortal and which accumulate assets and use them in ways that effectively exclude most eccentric geniuses from the game.

PaCadle on June 26, 2009 at 11:08 PM

I don’t say you are wrong as China is a communist nation. I redirect back to DarkCurrent on June 26, 2009 at 11:07 PM post. I feel time has changed the China you know. I’m speaking about a very exciting time in China that is evolving today. I’m glad I know you speak from your heart rather than from headlines.

DarkCurrent on June 26, 2009 at 10:04 PM

Thank you for sharing that. It’s always best to get it straight from source.

I understand. Wonderful, energetic, competitive and clever folks. But their competition is among themselves. Can they run for office? Can they demand an audience with an elected rep and present him/her with a list of demands? If they compete well enough can they run for a position and replace someone in the government?

- Can they run for office? : Yes, with limitations
- Can they demand an audience with an elected rep and present him/her with a list of demands? : Yes
- If they compete well enough can they run for a position and replace someone in the government? : Yes (with limitations)

Chinese periodically restructure their government. They’ve done it before many times, will again. But as YiZhangZhe observes, there is no particular pressure to do so today.

YiZhangZhe on June 26, 2009 at 10:23 PM

While I cannot argue any of your points, I do think it’s a shame that the China of old is no more. Where are the individual scholars, scientists, philosophers, inventors, and wise men of old? Perhaps I live in a time bubble, yearning for a world that existed only in my childhood books.

As for Europe, it was destroyed by two world wars – and its aftermath of Socialism. I agree that Europe, in particular, has no right to look down on other cultures, they have abandoned their own, and replaced it with this “one size fits all” mentality.

PaCadle on June 26, 2009 at 10:43 PM

How do you come to know the Chinese the way that you describe them? I know them because I work with them daily. I travel with them in their country. I meet with the meek and the elite. I endure the Government. I do not know the China you describe as the China of today.

I’d like to take you for a walk through my neighborhood. They compete, strongly.

DarkCurrent on June 26, 2009 at 10:09 PM

I understand. Wonderful, energetic, competitive and clever folks. But their competition is among themselves. Can they run for office? Can they demand an audience with an elected rep and present him/her with a list of demands? If they compete well enough can they run for a position and replace someone in the government?

I submit the “people”, have nothing to compete for.

PaCadle on June 26, 2009 at 9:48 PM

The “people” of China would be extremely surprised to learn this.

Chinese society is intensely competitive and Chinese people compete for the same things that people compete for in any other nation:

Work, goods, education, money, lovers, education, spouses, houses, education, opportunities, health-care. Did I mention education?

China is not a listless society.

ericdijon on June 26, 2009 at 10:01 PM

These shoppers, “truckers”, and job competitors live in their own world. Most sympathetic Americans who try to rationalize the Chinese society have, in their usual government experience, dealt with elitist Chinese who have done well…. wait, where did they start from?? Certainly not at the market (they have their servants), not at the auto shop (they have chauffers) and they certainly didn’t compete for their positions; they had to have been born in to their destinies. Those shoppers, truckers and job seekers, who very few Westerners live and deal with, are in their own frozen world, forever.

And, which founded the current regime. As long as that exists, the skeleton still rattles.

OldEnglish on June 26, 2009 at 9:48 PM

Obviously there is some continuity, because everything and everybody, including Comrade Mao, in someway rests on who and what went before.

However, I perceive that in the western nations there is a very common arrogance that tends to presume that all things Occidental are superior to things Oriental, and that the USA or the EU or some Western activism groups are the best source of wisdom for governance and morality. Given the present rapid rate of moral and social decay throughout the west it is hard to understand how this belief could subsist so perhaps I am wrong.

Furthermore it seems that many western people assume (it is never stated) that countries like China have learned nothing of value about governance in the past 4000 years. There seems to be an assumption that the Chinese people don’t have some good idea about how their own country best operates.

What Chinese people expect from their government is not the same as what many non-Chinese people seem to think Chinese people should want from their government.

Although there are many problems, most Chinese people are, generally, quite happy with their government. That’s not the popular western narrative but which journalist, evangelist or political activist would ever try to make a career out of happy, contented people?

Jeep had to redesign their 4wd system to try to match it. That Japanese copy is so pathetic nobody this side of a Gap store would be caught dead in it and Range Rover would have lost the real 4wd market but they haven’t had it for years. They are the most pathetic of the lot with trying to turn their box into a hot rod. Check the quality of Land Rovers with JD Powers. They actually had 10X the problems of the better makes the last time I looked.

The guy who made a “dreck” remark probably drives a KIA.

When you say the Chinese are you saying the government and elite or the people? I submit the “people”, have nothing to compete for.

PaCadle on June 26, 2009 at 9:48 PM

I’d like to take you for a walk through my neighborhood. They compete, strongly.

That’s good to hear. Now, if only they could throw off their Communist history.

I must admit, I’m still locked into the 1949 to 80s mode. I doubt that I’ll live long enough to shed it entirely.

OldEnglish on June 26, 2009 at 9:28 PM

The week before last I was watching the History Channel on my (theoretically illegal) satellite dish. There was a program about Mao. It covered mostly the post-revolutionary period, including the ‘Great Leap Forward’, ‘Cultural Revolution’, etc. I called my son in to watch. He’s been in China 3 years so is familiar with day-to-day life here today. I called my wife in to check it out too. She was one of the educated city kids sent off to work on farms.

‘Yes, that’s just how it was!’
‘Everybody went insane!’

My son was shocked, but learned a lot about what his mom had been through.

I submit the “people”, have nothing to compete for.

PaCadle on June 26, 2009 at 9:48 PM

But the “people” do compete. They compete for jobs, just like we do. They price compare and evaluate quality, just like we do. If they can put two wheels on something it is considered a truck for hire. They live within their means but aspire to always do better.

I’m not saying the Chinese are judgement proof, but always look further into the story.

ericdijon on June 26, 2009 at 9:47 PM

Good point

The Chinese are very competitive and westerners cannot deal with the thought of a spirit of competition existing in a communistic land.

ericdijon on June 26, 2009 at 9:37 PM

When you say the Chinese are you saying the government and elite or the people? I submit the “people”, have nothing to compete for.

The happenings of that era were the exception that proves the rule.

YiZhangZhe on June 26, 2009 at 9:33 PM

And, which founded the current regime. As long as that exists, the skeleton still rattles.

PaCadle on June 26, 2009 at 9:38 PM

What’s cheaper? The lint in your pocket or that shot?

Follow the lead toy’s path back to it’s creator. The Chinese aren’t promoting their brands here, the western producer is promoting the product he has made in China. The Chinese follow the western specs but we don’t get that crucial piece of the story as it would take the blame away from the Chinese and place it on domestic soil. I’m not saying the Chinese are judgement proof, but always look further into the story.