The 2nd Amendment and Iran
posted at 8:47 am on June 23, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Josh Kraushaar appears mystified by a Twitter message from Marco Rubio, the GOP Senate candidate, about the uprising in Iran. Noting that a few politicians have managed to embarrass themselves through the use of the social-networking platform, Kraushaar manages to embarrass himself by misunderstanding the nature of the 2nd Amendment and its place in American history:
Florida Senate candidate Marco Rubio is the latest to make his own curious comparison drawn from the Iranian demonstrations — that the protesters would have more success if they had a constitutional right to bear arms.
“I have a feeling the situation in Iran would be a little different if they had a 2nd amendment like ours,” Rubio tweeted on Sunday.
Not sure if Rubio was advocating an armed uprising from the otherwise peaceful protesters, but his follow-up tweet was a bit more dovish: “Hoping police and military in Iran will refuse to attack unarmed civilians if ordered to do so.”
Wouldn’t it be just awful if an armed citizenry overthrew a tyranny by force and established democracy and liberty? That never turns out well. Oh, except for that one time when we did it, of course.
Besides, Rubio quite obviously means that an armed citizenry would not allow tyranny to be imposed in the first place. That is one of the reasons that he founding fathers of this country included the right to keep and bear arms in the Constitution, right after the right to free speech, religious practice, and peaceable assembly. In fact, it meant to guarantee that Americans could expect those other rights to continue unmolested — rights that the past week proved yet again that the Iranian people do not have under this regime of mullahs.
Rubio was being glib, of course. (Can you be anything else in 140 characters or less?) However, his meaning was pretty clear, and hardly controversial or “curious”. Supporters of the 2nd Amendment offer these reminders whenever oppression makes itself obvious in the world, to help Americans recall the value of the Bill of Rights and the exceptional place it has in human history.
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Um…did those protesters come with those truncheons? Oh, that’s right. They took them off the thugs beating their heads in with them.
MadisonConservative on June 23, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Only ACORN should have guns.
faraway on June 23, 2009 at 9:16 AM
your name fits, go away far away….
SHARPTOOTH on June 23, 2009 at 9:19 AM
hmmm Maby faraway is right. From the ACORN nutjobs Iv’e seen on tv they would be looking down the barrel when they fired it to make sure the bullit came out. LOL
Rick007 on June 23, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Apply that to ALL living prophets, no good has ever come from any of them.
Jones town, Koresch, Heaven’s Gate, it goes on and on…even some of the very best known religions have had these living prophets rape young girls…when someone decides they are speaking for God, hide your children, your bank account (funny how God’s messenger always needs your money), and run.
right2bright on June 23, 2009 at 9:57 AM
Johnnyreb on June 23, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Which Cabby’s do you shop at because I feel your pain. Beyond specialty defense rounds, my local Cabs is pretty well out of most pistol ammo except the small stuff like .32 or FN 5.7 oddballs.
Bishop on June 23, 2009 at 9:58 AM
That was his exact quote…
right2bright on June 23, 2009 at 10:01 AM
right2bright on June 23, 2009 at 9:53 AM
1878 Military Law Gets New Attention
Nov 24, 2001 – This bit of relative antiquity defines the role of the US Military in our lives and keeps us from becoming little more than a wealthy banana republic.
Currently, America’s military is largely prohibited from acting as a domestic police force. And while the presence of military “advisors” during the siege, brutality and slaughter at WACO Texas set ominous trends in motion, few thought in terms of its implications. But that was before the terrorism of September 11, 2001, now glibly called “911.”
“Our way of life has forever changed,” wrote Sen. John Warner R-Va., in an October 2001 letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. “Should this law [Posse Comitatus Act] now be changed to enable our active-duty military to more fully join other domestic assets in this war against terrorism?”
The law, was championed by far-sighted Southern lawmakers in 1878. They had experienced a fifteen year military occupation by the US Army in post-Civil War law enforcement. They understood the heel of a jackboot.
In a nutshell, this act bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the act.
Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, testifying in October before the Senate Armed Services Committee, agreed that it might be desirable to give federal troops more of a role in domestic policing to prevent terrorism. “In certain cases we can do more than anyone else in the country because of the special capabilities that we have,” he said.
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Opps…sorry for the BOLD in the wrong place.
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Shouldn’t a people have the right to shoot back at their oppressors?
TheSitRep on June 23, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Agreed!…With scope!
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Speaking for G-d or speaking AS G-d.
It never ends well.
crom on June 23, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Yeah – 2 million protesters with guns. That would have been just awful. It would have been terrible if the Iranian people overthrew the mullahs by use of force. We all know that only the peaceful overthrow of tyrants is ever justified.
besser tot als rot on June 23, 2009 at 10:09 AM
He confused military with police action and he considers Koresch an upstanding citizen…
What do you expect?
He has yet to apologize to the military…expect nothing less then a desperate attempt at trying to group the military in with the Attorney General…
BTW, they used normal common tear gas…not some concoction he (jeff) stated…obviously a student of conspiracies.
right2bright on June 23, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Jeff,
Do. The. Numbers.
The liberals have. That is what has them scared.
I disagree with your premise that the military would follow the administration’s orders aginst the US population, but IF they did they could be up against 30 MILLION armed citizens (a number that is growing daily). An armed citizenry that knows their territory.
Consider this:
From Reuters (Aug 28, 2007)
“The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world, a report released on Tuesday said.
U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world’s 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.
About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.”
These numbers were BEFORE the buying spree that started last November.
DO. THE. MATH.
Yoop on June 23, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Exactly, one morphs into the other…
That is why maintaining a 2nd amendment is so important.
It is imperative that leaders know where the ultimate power is placed.
We learn that in the sand box…you don’t defend what you have and your toys are taken, if you have the “stick” and willing to use it, no one steals your toys.
Bully’s prey on the weak…and politician’s are bully’s.
The way to make sure they never have any doubts of who has the ultimate power…you make sure we have a 2nd amendment.
right2bright on June 23, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Yup.
itsnotaboutme on June 23, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Okay that kind of over the top statement has to be sarcasm – it’s unfathomable that some would actually believe that.
Look, there is only one reason the government would want to disarm the law-abiding and that would be to empower themselves.
It has been proven again and again that Disarming the law-abiding only increases crime, and yet the leftists keep on trying to incrementally erode our right to self-defense.
It should be Clear WHY they have that as part of their agenda.
Juno77 on June 23, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Yoop on June 23, 2009 at 10:11 AM
What’s there to argue about anyhow. Obama is destroying this country every day LEGALLY. There are no demonstrations, there is no outrage. Half of this country are women, 80% of them will vote for whoever flirts with them more. As for the guys , every generation is becoming weaker, more pansy-like Democrat males.
There IS no revolution. The country is doomed. The fighting point is moot
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Throwing out the baby w/ the bath water.
Thousands of pastors speak for God every Sunday, & hundreds of thousands of listeners are blessed & inspired to be better people.
itsnotaboutme on June 23, 2009 at 10:17 AM
Agreed!…With scope!
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Mounted on a receiver saddle of course, for easy dismount. I love that gun so much that I bought an extra one as well as a boatload of accessories.
Bishop on June 23, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Palin/Rubio 2012
Instantly cut the amount of sleep per night of Dem operatives nationwide.
Sapwolf on June 23, 2009 at 10:19 AM
If I could have only one of mine, it would be my 870
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Sarah should stump for Rubio, but I’m not sure she will.
If he asks her, I think she would if she can fit it in the schedule.
Does anybody think that Rubio should go for the governor spot? Isn’t that more important at this time to be an outsider from DC?
Sapwolf on June 23, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Surrender if you must.
Me. I’m 68 years old and I WILL NEVER SURRENDER, right up till my last breath. I am of one of the generations that helped build this country and I will not willfully forsake those who have gone before in defense of it. I will not willfully give up any part of this country to lying, liberal politicians.
THEY only think they are on a roll. The brakes are going to be applied sooner than they think.
Yoop on June 23, 2009 at 10:26 AM
I have no idea what a statement in 2001 has any value regarding an event in 1993…the military were only informed, they did not participate in the action as you have tried to imply.
Listen, this is the best way for you.
You misstated, tried to paint the military with an ugly brush for something that they did not participate in…the military was advised, the sherriff was advised, attorney were advised, police were advised, the President was advised, senators were advised, newspapers were advised, this was a 50 day standoff…and Koresch was a child molester, you like that?
Apologize to the military, state that you mis-posted…and move on…be a man, or keep whining and posting nonsense, it your decision.
right2bright on June 23, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Precisely why the Statists are beginning the gun grab going after Patrol Rifles like the venerable AR-15 (Yeah, I’m biased all right).
But just like every other Governmental scam, bad ALWAYS leads to worse. First it’s Patrol Rifles and handguns, pretty soon it will be any kind of firearm.
Chainsaw56 on June 23, 2009 at 10:27 AM
You are correct. I am one of those of which you speak.
These comments were written within the context of a discussion about those who speak for G-d with evil intent.
crom on June 23, 2009 at 10:27 AM
I guess you miss the point…it is the ones who truly think they are speaking for God exclusively…pastors preach what they think God means, but really can any actually speak for God?
Can a man full of sin, speak for One that is sinless?
They can only interpret what they think is God’s word, knowing that they will fail and fall short of that challenge.
They certainly inspire us to follow God, but not to follow them.
right2bright on June 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM
You forgot the last step:
Donate to SarahPAC and mention it last in your statement.
Sapwolf on June 23, 2009 at 10:33 AM
I guess the Mullahs are now running a close second behind “the Big O” in the “Greatest Gun Salesman in History” contest?
SayNo2-O on June 23, 2009 at 10:37 AM
I lobbied to have the original operation in Afghanistan called “terrible resolve”. As usual, nobody listened.
MarkTheGreat on June 23, 2009 at 10:41 AM
So the govt was right to incinerate everyone in the building in order to kill the molester?
MarkTheGreat on June 23, 2009 at 10:44 AM
They don’t even have real rocks to throw. In the pics I have seen it looks like they have to chip the ones they do have off of some nearby concrete/brick building.
kahall on June 23, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Mine of choice is a Mossberg 500A w/ the 18.5″ barrel.
Stocking up on appropriate feed as it is available. But my favorite “accessories” are some 12 gauge white flares (really light up an area) and 12 gauge “animal crackers”. The latter are M-80 equivalent that will launch out 80 to 100 yards before they go off with a good bang and puff of smoke. They work good to help coyotes and bears decide to move on… ;-)
Yoop on June 23, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Interesting enough, our local gun stores are experiencing a dearth of blackpowder stuff too. I have several charcoal burners (way fun to shoot,plus it’s like holding a bit of history) and til now, supplies haven’t been any problem.
Demand for ALL types of ammo and firearms doesn’t seem to have dwindled even slightly. Don’t recall EVER seeing this phenomonon grow such legs in my life. Kinda seems like a bad omen, imho.
irongrampa on June 23, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Where do you get those?
[Asking from an academic standpoint only you understand]
RustyFeedramps on June 23, 2009 at 11:00 AM
The video of Marco Rubio posted at Hot Air here is what got me interested. WOW!
Loxodonta on June 23, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Nobody has to face an M1A1 Abram.
All that you need to do is take away the fuel.
Blow up, hijack, ambush the fuel convoy, and you stop the Abram.
The people in this country are armed.
If Obama through ACORN or another org. steals the elections in 2010 in any major material way or steals the POTUS election in 2012, it will lead to armed uprisings across the country. The military will not support a corrupt administrations attempts to cheat an election in a blatant way like what happened in Iran.
Sapwolf on June 23, 2009 at 11:10 AM
Let me think about that. Hmmmm… YES!
Loxodonta on June 23, 2009 at 11:12 AM
That depends on your aim and the distance. Clearly, you haven’t practiced enough, and you are loathe to actually get close enough to be effective. Many is the Man who can disable an M1A2 with his brain and not with a shot. We are lucky that all the smart, brave Men are in the US, and not in foreign countries. They have only foolish bravado, and unthinking devotion to their god. We have a devotion to Justice and the US Constitution.
Therein lies the difference.
Subsunk
Subsunk on June 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM
Yoop on June 23, 2009
Based on the numbers you cited and the buying frenzy since November, it appears we are nearing (or passing?) 300 million firearms privately owned in the US. Most gun owners that I know (myself included) own more than one firearm. I have more than five myself and that’s small potatoes among my peers. Even if the total number of gun-owning households is between 75 and 100 million, that’s a bunch! If we could all be convinced to vote en bloc, we’d be unstoppable without firing a shot. Problem is that so many gun owners do not vote to protect the constitutional rights on which they rely.
It’s not the outside enemies who will destroy us. The final bloody battle for freedom will be against those who call themselves Americans.
SKYFOX on June 23, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Smart guy.
logis on June 23, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Man, that date just keeps cropping up over and over again doesn’t it?
logis on June 23, 2009 at 11:24 AM
Ya want to see what happens to unarmed citizens?
See both photos here: http://jforbes.us/neda/
Hal-9000 on June 23, 2009 at 11:26 AM
I imagine it would be easier for the Americans to maintain and strengthen what little they have left of a federal order, if their states and cities organized and supported, you know, well-regulated militia.
Kralizec on June 23, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Weapons (preferrably large guns) are far better for purposes of expelling a tyrannical oppressive government than candles, ribbons, singing Kumbayah and group hugs.
I wish that the Iranian citizenry were heavily armed right now.
The Revolutionary Guard, the mullahs and the national police would feel like they had bullseyes on their backs.
molonlabe28 on June 23, 2009 at 11:36 AM
The out of this world gun sales and the fact that I can’t buy many types of ammo right now at any price pretty much paint a stark picture about where many people think things here are heading.
I hope thoughts like that keep King Barry Hussain warm at night.
The Ronin Edge on June 23, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Don’t look now but the Supreme Court hasn’t followed the Constitution in a while.
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 11:40 AM
There IS no revolution. The country is doomed. The fighting point is moot
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 10:17 AM
The spirit of revolution lives in the beating hearts of patriots everywhere who would rather die free than live as slaves. Most of those who will come for us are just following orders and we were once under arms as they are now. Old men will stand with the younger and if need be do what is required. At some point, those that face us will join us for they are Americans, also swore to defend the Constitution as we ( my oath from 1966 has no expiration date ). So Jeff if you don’t have the stomach for a fight go sit with the children so the women are freed to join their men!
nowhiners on June 23, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Maybe you should have tried it in the original Japanese. :)
Count to 10 on June 23, 2009 at 11:45 AM
You might want to rethink this statement. Some folks in Vietnam still used some really old hardware. And I can show you how to make a lethal, silent weapon out of two lengths of surgical tubing and a rock.
The military cannot be trusted to stand down. That notion is outright stupid and one of the main reasons for the second amendment. Don’t take my word for it. Go read the writings of James Madison and the other folks who crafted the Constitution. (it wasn’t a one man job, but some of you know that.)
Its an eye opener.
dogsoldier on June 23, 2009 at 11:47 AM
It’s already happenning.
davidk on June 23, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Just takes one, to be heard round the world.
Speakup on June 23, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Glenn Beck did a segment on ACORN yesterday – they are setting up offices around the world. Their new name will be Community Organizers International.
Akzed on June 23, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Not if they have to beg their oppressors for the right.
No. They would have 2nd thoughts if the people were armed.
Kenosha Kid on June 23, 2009 at 11:50 AM
The focus on guns and ammunition alone seems decadent. Consideration needs to be given to armor, non-lethal weaponry, and training for coordiated civil defense, as well. It seems it would be a fine thing if the citizens of any city or state were competent to serve as adjuncts to the police and, in the extreme case, to oppose an unjust action.
Kralizec on June 23, 2009 at 11:53 AM
As you may recall, the Brits were horrified to see that the Americans ventilated a large portion of the British officer corps in the first minute or so of the battle.
Their practice had been to aim generally at the enemy mass, turn your head, and fire. Until then, to take aim at a particular man was considered murder. They practiced target shooting the next day.
Akzed on June 23, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Hence the philosophical debate we are having in this Country.
Do all rights belong to the people, except those rendered to the government via the Constitution
Or, do all rights belong to the Government, and are dispensed to the people as they see fit?
The FOUNDERS were clear-or so I thought
When we ask, does a man have the right to tell another man he has no right to defend himself…..
Browndog on June 23, 2009 at 11:54 AM
It has been quite a while, but I recall buying them from “Cheaper Than Dirt”. I just googled them. Yikes!!! Looks like the prices have doubled, or tripled.
Here are some “animal Crackers”.
http://www.macecanada.com/wilderness/Cartridges/12_gauge_bearbangers_1.htm
OK. Here is ALL of the assortment:
http://www.margosupplies.com/public/american1/scare/12_gauge_carts.htm
Yoop on June 23, 2009 at 11:57 AM
COI?
Count to 10 on June 23, 2009 at 11:57 AM
http://www.margosupplies.com/public/american1/scare/12_gauge_carts.htm
Among other places.
davidk on June 23, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Sorry for the dup., Yoop.
davidk on June 23, 2009 at 12:02 PM
OMG, OMG…he’s raving on about the Second Amendment!!!
I always knew this guy had to be a far-right bigot.
What next with these nutters? The 4th Amendment? The 5th?
Clinging to their guns and their Constitution.
guntotinglibertarian on June 23, 2009 at 12:03 PM
First, I despise Koresch and to try to paint me as a child molester supporter is a typical LEFTY way to win an argument. The fact that innocent women and children were KILLED is my only point. I hope Koresch burns in hell.
and:
Between August 1992 and April 1994, Clark was commander of the 1st Cavalry Division of the Army’s III Corps at Fort Hood, Texas. According to a report by the U.S. Department of the Treasury, the list of military personnel and equipment used at Waco included: 15 active-duty military personnel, 13 Texas National Guard personnel, nine Bradley fighting vehicles, five combat-engineer vehicles, one tank-retrieval vehicle and two M1A1 Abrams tanks. Additionally, Fort Hood reportedly was used for much of the training for the bloody attack on the Davidians and their children.
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:13 PM
We beat the worlds superpower to win our freedom and now a lot of Americans want us to be like the Europeans we separated ourselves from so very successfully.
Speakup on June 23, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Thanks to both of you.
RustyFeedramps on June 23, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Besides an 870, I would recommend an M1a over almost an other rifle. And several disposable .22’s. Several.
GunRunner on June 23, 2009 at 12:26 PM
“any” sorry.
GunRunner on June 23, 2009 at 12:27 PM
Yep, if the Revolution happens in the U.S. it may very well be worse than Y2K. Members of the military take an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the Untied States from both enemies foreign and domestic. So the key to winning is to get the Military on your side. Some Military officers have other motives though.
Let’s start by dispelling that myth. Here
is the list of US military personnel and
equipment that the US Justice Department
admits were used at Mt. Carmel:
“Military Personnel and Equipment
- Personnel
Active Duty Personnel – 15
Texas National Guard Personnel – 13
- Track vehicles
Bradley fighting vehicle (OMZ) – 9
Combat Engineer Vehicle (M728) – 5
Tank Retrieval vehicle (M88) – 1
Abrams Tanks (M1A1) – 2
Clark authorized the use of Weapons and was in on the planning of the Mt. Carmel assault. There is also specultaion of Delta Force mebers present as well.
BubbaGun on June 23, 2009 at 12:29 PM
So I guess right2bright was WRONG
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:35 PM
If you truely believe that you are a fool, and you won’t last a week in any real confrontation.
MarkTheGreat on June 23, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Quote: “The Second Amendment will not keep tyranny from enveloping America, since we HAVE a Second Amendment and we HAVE a tyrant that is determined to take away our rights. Waco/Weaver have proved that American soldiers will kill American citizens when ordered to do so. So the 2nd Amendment point is moot. You can’t defeat an M1A2 with a Remington 870.”
1: The federal agencies that burned down those crazies in Texas were not our soldiers. Correct your history, it makes you sound stupid and incoherent when you make such a silly factual mistake.
2: A tank can’t drive down a manhole. 12 gauge buckshot from a home defender < 5.56 every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
3: Nobody here is stupid enough to run out into the street with their Glock and start shooting at soldiers, BATF, FBI, NSA, or TSA agents. It’s called asymmetrical warfare.
The targets will be the interdependent power grid, water mains, water treatment plants, water towers, roads, bridges, rail lines, fiber optic cable, satellite transmission towers, ect. The objective will be destroying crippling amounts of the infrastructure that an out of control government uses to feed itself. Nobody will attack armored convoys. Nobody will try to battle trained commandos. They will tear apart anything and everything that’s UNGUARDED that this government uses to operate until said government bleeds itself out trying to investigate, rebuilt, fortify, and protect. While the government waists millions and billions to clean up these mass acts sabotage, deals with the civil unrest that results, and tries to quell the populous with increasingly totalitarian attempts to regain order, the insurgency, rather than attempting attacks on a behemoth military machine, has picked up and moved to a completely different state to devastate more infrastructure.
The feds know damn well that they will loose this kind of war. They know they can’t fight when our infrastructure is under constant attack, and they also know America is too de-centralized, too open, and too mobile to defend their assets from a truly determined insurgency.
Sleep well congress critters. Know that we the people are watching you closely, and we won’t let you become tyrants. Ever.
The Ronin Edge on June 23, 2009 at 12:36 PM
The good news is that Fauxbamo and the rest of the Statists have pledged to not gradually erode the rights enumerated in the 3rd Amendment – the rest, well that’s a different story.
Maybe the DNC could use the following slogan: Supporting selected parts of the Constitution since 2009 !!
Chainsaw56 on June 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM
West Point graduate Joseph Mehrten Jr. tells Insight, “Clark had to have knowledge about the plan because there is no way anyone could have gotten combat vehicles off that base without his OK. The M1A1 Abrams armor is classified ‘Secret,’ and maybe even ‘Top Secret,’ and if it was deployed as muscle
for something like Waco there would have been National Firearms Act weapons issues. Each of these M1A1 Abrams vehicles is armed with a 125-millimeter cannon, a 50-caliber machine gun and two 30-caliber machine guns, which are all very heavily controlled items, requiring controls much like a chain of legal custody. It is of critical importance that such vehicles could not have been moved for use at Waco without Clark’s knowledge.”
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:40 PM
You can’t have an M1A2 for each politician or judge you want to protect. When you run out of enemy politicians and judges, the guys driving the M1A2s will decide they work for you now.
And that M1A2 needs fuel … who refines that fuel? People who own Remington 870s, maybe?
And how is that M1A2 theory working out in Afghanistan? Just askin’ …
Kristopher on June 23, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Sounds like you want to set up a militia.
Which I would consider to be a good thing.
MarkTheGreat on June 23, 2009 at 12:40 PM
U.S. Department of the Treasury, the list of military personnel and equipment used at Waco included: 15 active-duty military personnel, 13 Texas National Guard personnel, nine Bradley fighting vehicles, five combat-engineer vehicles, one tank-retrieval vehicle and two M1A1 Abrams tanks. Additionally, Fort Hood reportedly was used for much of the training for the bloody attack on the Davidians and their children.
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Jeff: The FBI agents who burned down the Waco compound violated Posse Commitatus when they borrowed M2 Bradleys from the military.
Kristopher on June 23, 2009 at 12:42 PM
I’d like to defend my gender, if I may. There are a lot of stupid women out there, true, but a lot of excellent, intelligent, and capable ones as well. Witness the Tea Parties, the majority of which are planned by women, and the loudest and boldest voices of Conservatism, which include Michelle Malkin, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Megyn Kelly, etc…
This past weekend, a girlfriend and I went out shopping: we’re both young, recently-married professional artists and we love shoes and skirts and generally being girly. We also spent the entire day talking religion, politics, and philosophy: we’re both vehement conservatives. We ended the day on the subject of guns, and when I told her that I’m looking into purchasing my first firearm, she invited me to join her and her husband the next time they go to the shooting range. Trust me, the ladies are up to the challenge.
And yes, there are some dangerously-feminized men out there, but there are a lot of REAL MEN left, too. I’m certain these types will come out of the woodwork when the situation demands it.
Animator Girl on June 23, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Lot of chest thumping going on here.
Heard that from the English, just before they surrendered all their guns without resistance. Heard it from the Australians too, same result.
Fact is, if people voted their guns, Obama wouldn’t be president. And if people won’t vote for their guns, they sure as hell won’t fight for them.
Rebar on June 23, 2009 at 12:44 PM
I wonder how Yamamoto would assess us today…
hawksruleva on June 23, 2009 at 12:44 PM
He had the juice to say no, concludes Mehrten, “and he could have and should have. But if he had done so he probably wouldn’t have gotten his next star. There is a reason critics say this man was not recommended by the military for that fourth star but got it anyway because of political clout, just as there is a reason that Chief of Staff Hugh Shelton brought him home early from Europe because of ‘character and integrity issues.’ Sure the Bradley vehicle could have been operated by a civilian, but that’s unlikely. This military equipment is very specialized and would be virtually useless in the hands of untrained operators. But just using military equipment against civilians is running way afoul of Posse Comitatus. Legally, if he were involved in it and there were active-duty units where these armored vehicles came from, then it is a clear violation of the act. Clark’s command at the time, 1st Cavalry, is an active-duty federal division and it is my understanding that these vehicles used at Waco were from Fort Hood – his command.”
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Liberals love it when protesters “peacefully” get slaughtered.
While the “peacefully” savage beatings and murders are going on, liberals get to sit around and wallow in the melodrama. And then when all the protesters are imprisoned or dead, things are blissfully quiet and “peaceful” once again.
Of course the “peaceful” (i.e., unarmed) protesters themselves wish to God they had some way of stopping the violence. But to liberals, that’s irrelevant. To liberals, the protesters aren’t standing up for any identifiable political issue; they’re just standing up in order to provide a sense of vicarious self-righteousness among the faraway and perfectly safe worshippers at the Cult Of The Ego.
Armed insurrections are the worst of both worlds as far as moral relativism is concerned. They are messy, and they never seem to go away quickly. Worst of all, conservatives keep pestering liberals to think about whether it’s possible that one side might be “right” or “wrong” – and that makes liberals’ heads hurt. On the plus side, though, that sense of annoyance always serves to help liberals remember who their REAL enemy is.
logis on June 23, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Exactly, they know they wouldn’t be able to win, so they won’t try – UNLESS they can try to disarm the populace ahead of time, under the guise of crime control or child safety or some such other nonsense.
Chainsaw56 on June 23, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Believe me, it’s VERY nice to meet one of the 20%!
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:47 PM
I can’t think of ANY amendments that Democrats clearly support.
hawksruleva on June 23, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Quote: “U.S. Department of the Treasury, the list of military personnel and equipment used at Waco included: 15 active-duty military personnel, 13 Texas National Guard personnel, nine Bradley fighting vehicles, five combat-engineer vehicles, one tank-retrieval vehicle and two M1A1 Abrams tanks. Additionally, Fort Hood reportedly was used for much of the training for the bloody attack on the Davidians and their children.”
Prove it. Anyone clown on the itnernet can say somethin – or in your case, a defeatist clown. Someone said got sit with the wkids and shup up while the rest of us insure you have the right to be such a coward.
I agree with their assessment.
Anywho, pony up some info on military resources being allowcated. And I want something official, on an official site, not some rambling blog post off the Survivalist Forums.
The Ronin Edge on June 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM
“I can’t think of ANY amendments that Democrats clearly support.
hawksruleva on June 23, 2009 at 12:47 PM”
Oh yeah, one of them, they support religiously. The 16th amendment. I never *EVER* met a democrat that didn’t think every penney *I* earned didn’t belong to the government to dispense with “fairly and equitably”.
Webrider on June 23, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Two points:
One, we can learn from the English and the Australians – Registration=Confiscation
Two, like all other Statists, Fauxbama LIED through his teeth to get elected, but that doesn’t mean people can’t wise up.
Chainsaw56 on June 23, 2009 at 12:54 PM
The Ronin Edge on June 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM,
One question Ronin, you might not be old enough to remember, but I remember the M1A1 and the Bradleys there. We old enough ALL saw them on TV.
Care to tell us where THEY came from??
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 12:54 PM
Let’s be practical here, it’s one thing for the government to do that in a few isolated incidents, but it’s an entirely different matter for them to try on the whole country.
They know that’s impossible, so they won’t try in the first place, barring some way of disarming the law-abiding first.
That’s what will keep the peace, and that shows the genius of the founders of this nation.
Chainsaw56 on June 23, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Fact is, if people voted their guns, Obama wouldn’t be president. And if people won’t vote for their guns, they sure as hell won’t fight for them.
Rebar on June 23, 2009
I agree with the first sentence but not the last. Who we vote for can be the product of myriad rationalizations. What we fight for is usually clear and specific. Many Americans won’t fight for their constitutional rights but many (most, I hope) will.
SKYFOX on June 23, 2009 at 1:05 PM
The problem with that theory is, HALF the country voted for and supports this traitorous tyrant. In my OWN AREA a woman who attended a tea party, and was seen on TV, got a pro-Obama-Anti-Bush hate letter, on the local police Dept. letterhead paper. The ARMED COPS are supporting this traitor.
Jeff from WI on June 23, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Are you a cook or a rifleman!
Rem. 870’s are nice for defensive applications, I have one.
Go to http://www.odcmp.com/ and find out how to get a real rifleman’s rifle, an M-1 Garand from Government inventories M-1 Carbines are available as well. Although Like everthing else firearms related they are behind.
Also visit this site http://appleseedinfo.org/ to learn to be a rifleman at one of their clinics in a neighborhood near you which will also let allow you to meet the requiremnets of the CMP program.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program is a government mandated program created to teach marksmanship and issue government surplus rifles to Civilians. Better check on it now before the One puts an end to it. Clinton already took it out of the Army’s hands.
The CMP was created by the U.S. Congress as part of the 1903 War Department Appropriations Act. The original purpose was to provide civilians an opportunity to learn and practice marksmanship skills so they would be skilled marksmen if later called on to serve in the U.S. military. Over the years the emphasis of the program shifted to focus on youth development through marksmanship. From 1916 until 1996 the CMP was administered by the U.S. Army. Title XVI of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 (Public Law 104-106, 10 February 1996) created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety (CPRPFS) to take over administration and promotion of the CMP. The CPRPFS is a tax-exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation that has been Federally chartered by the U.S. Congress, but is not an agency of the U.S. Government (Title 36, United States Code, Section 40701 et seq). Apart from a donation of surplus .22 and .30 caliber rifles in the Army’s inventory to the CMP, the CMP receives no Federal funding
BubbaGun on June 23, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Ever? You sure?
Some might argue that a little bit of good came from this one crazy Jewish dude who swore he was the living Son of God.
And of course “300″ would have sucked without Xerxes.
Professor Blather on June 23, 2009 at 1:18 PM
This is the point I’ve been making since 2003.
That we should always support justified violent revolution because it is the foundation of our nation.
Furthermore, in one of the last acts of decency to come out of France until recently, France was key to our victory over the British in the same way that we should be critical to supporting other just revolutions.
demotheses on June 23, 2009 at 1:21 PM
I spent a good portion of Father’s Day at my reloading bench whipping up a few hundred .40 S&W, 7.62×54r, and 12ga rounds and my mind kept jumping from the current events in Iran to the events of this great country’s founding.
Thank God for guns.
pugwriter on June 23, 2009 at 1:25 PM
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