Video: Iranian protesters rout police; Rumor: Split in the Revolutionary Guard? Update: Neda’s fiance interviewed
posted at 12:47 pm on June 22, 2009 by Allahpundit
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A tasty leftover from the weekend on a day when it’s starting to seem like we’ve seen the last of mass confrontations. Be sure to watch to the end. The Iranian twitterers I follow sound increasingly frightened and paranoid this morning, and with good reason: Between the massive Basij presence in the streets, the new threats from the Revolutionary Guard, and the Journal’s report of how deeply the regime has penetrated Internet communications, there’s danger around every corner, real or virtual. It’s come to this:
One regular protester, 20-year-old student Behrooz, told the BBC that protesters were aware their electronic communications were being monitored.
“We know that some of them are tracking us on our phone,” he said. “When we say certain words… such as ’supreme leader’ or ‘demonstration’ our lines are cut.”
The way forward now, I presume, is the sort of mass strike Mousavi’s reportedly calling for followed by some type of dramatic gesture by the clerics to galvanize the people. Absent the latter, I think it’ll peter out. In fact, the only large-ish protest I know of today was a rally in Haft-e Tir Square to remember Neda and that was evidently broken up by Basij and riot police. More information is coming out about her on Twitter, incidentally, including new photos of her and her grave. And if you thought her story couldn’t get any worse, think again: According to HuffPo, citing a BBC Persia report, she was … engaged. Any Farsi speakers willing to follow that last link and translate for us?
Update: No verification on this, but it’s potentially so huge that I’m tossing it out there anyway.
According to unconfirmed reports in Balatarin [Farsi] , Gen. Ali Fazli, the head of revolutionary guards in Tehran, has been arrested after refusing to execute Khamenei’s order of using force against demonstrators in Tehran. He is a war veteran who lost an eye during the Iran-Iraq war.
Update: The regime counters Mousavi’s call for a strike by reportedly announcing that anyone who doesn’t come to work tomorrow is fired.
Update: HuffPo’s 1:03 update features an English translation of the BBC Persia interview with Neda’s fiance.
Kasamin Makan, Neda Agha-Setan’s fiancee, was interviewed by BBC Persia, noting that Neda would have turned 27 this year. “Neda’s goal was not Mousavi or Ahmadinejad, it was her country and was important for her to fight for this goal. She had said many times that if she had lost her life or been shot in the heart, which indeed what happened, it was important for her to continue in this path,” he said.
Considering her young age she has taught a lesson to us all.
Mr. Makan said regarding the day of the event: “When this happened Neda, was away from the front lines, in smaller alleys near Amir Abbad. She had been in the car with her music instructor for an hour in traffic. She got tired of the heat in the car and they decided to walk. However, based on the distributed pictures by people, there had been Basijis in civilian clothes present in the area and one of them had shot her in the heart.”
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Surely the leftists of the world will support a general Iranian strike.
Maybe not, modern Marxists want the defeat of the West before helping the oppressed.
RobCon on June 22, 2009 at 12:50 PM
I hate to be pessimistic about this (this is the new golden era of HopenChange after all), but I think it’s probably over for now. Without military/police units siding with the people…and no way for the people to arm themselves, there is not much they can do.
AUINSC on June 22, 2009 at 12:52 PM
Good thing Obama didn’t favor one side or the other.
I mean, clearly, the video above shows 2 ‘waffle minded’ groups whose opinions would be totally swayed if Obama spoke
Obviously, these wavering Mousavi supporters above would turn 180 degrees if they heard Obama’s ‘meddling voice’, according to Chris Matthews on MSNBC
battleoflepanto1571 on June 22, 2009 at 12:52 PM
One thing our side needs to hammer home from this day forward: Obama has forfeited ANY right to speak for oppressed peoples anywhere. Period.
Patrick S on June 22, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Nokia helped set up a system that is very sophisticated and can, indeed, shut down and track cell phone and internet. It’s not a false paranoia, in other words. We’re just now seeing the extent start to emerge.
Also, an interesting story on the radio last night said that the Benjis are now being brought in from rural regions, and they have NO problem bashing heads. Many do not even speak Farsi, there is no identification, and this tactic was used by the Chinese. Lesson learned?
The strike should be the next step for the uprising.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 12:55 PM
Damn..just after I posted my pessimistic assessment, the one thing that could make a difference looks possible…but only if these units actually actively support the people…rather than passively stand by and hold fire.
AUINSC on June 22, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Best vid from Iran yet, those people chasing off the thugs is awesome.
A plus is that we can use this as a training vid for when our own government under Ogabe finally pushes too far. I’ve already got a huge pile of broken cinder blocks and bricks.
Bishop on June 22, 2009 at 12:58 PM
If this is indeed over, some of the blame has GOT to focus on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. The man said NOTHING of substance. NOTHING. No support whatsoever. We left them out to dry.
Red Cloud on June 22, 2009 at 12:58 PM
It would be good if the military failed to support the mullahs. However, even if they do support them it will further diminish the authority of the mullahs and increase the political power of the military. The result might be a power struggle within a troika of 1.Theocratic rulers 2.Fake elected leaders 3.Military muscle. It’s a recipe for long-term turmoil, though the bright side is that each group would be in competition for the support of “the people”.
dedalus on June 22, 2009 at 1:00 PM
you are kidding right? He is the ONE!
cmsinaz on June 22, 2009 at 1:02 PM
the state run media will never put the blame on him….
cmsinaz on June 22, 2009 at 1:03 PM
I don’t believe Obambi kept his mouth shut when Israel was defending itself against attack. He is so blided by his hate for Israel that he instinctively sides with its enemies.
max1 on June 22, 2009 at 1:04 PM
Wait, Obama didn’t will this to happen…
He sooo wanted to bow to Khamenei
DamnYankee on June 22, 2009 at 1:04 PM
I dunno…I’m beginning to think, at this point, it would serve the demonstrators better to take a page from the likes of Gandhi and MLK…and start some civil disobedience.
They’ll garner much more support by gathering en masse, sitting in the streets, blocking traffic, etc…every day… than they could by continuing to “fight” the armed police, etc. It’s really the Basij who’s the most frightening…simply civilian volunteers, dressed as civilians, with police power…that I’d be most afraid of.
JetBoy on June 22, 2009 at 1:05 PM
Check your history. Thousands died in those “peace full protests” of Ghandi.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Kudos to Gen. Al-Fazli. An army fights FOR its people, not against them. I wonder if the Air Force maneuvers cited on Drudge might be a pre-emptive flight to seek asylum?
hawksruleva on June 22, 2009 at 1:07 PM
At some point, perhaps, people will embrace being arrested. That’s been a long-standing tradition in our own protest movements.
They can’t arrest everyone! :)
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM
One can’t help but wonder how the outcome on Monday might have been different if the American voice of support for the protesters wasn’t stepped on by an idiot more interested in getting his picture taken buying ice cream treats for the dog and spending father’s day golfing.
highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Miracles do happen. If one takes place in Iran, how will the resulting regime view America, and view Obama?
hawksruleva on June 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Now the roundup will start of all those Iranians who participated in the protest marches and those commenting via cell phone and the internet.
These demonstrators will disappear into the dungeons of Iran never to be seen from again.
(Mousavi seems to have wimped out.)
History will look back on this and judge the current President of the United States negatively. What could have been if the US had given strong moral support to the demonstrators?
Ayatollah Khamenei and Amadanutjob can use a little bit of Obama-speak and tell the world they could have been tougher on the demonstrators: “We saved or created thousands of lives by not bringing in the full force of the Revolutionary Guard”
albill on June 22, 2009 at 1:09 PM
For that matter how would Americans view Obama if, on his first outing into unscripted foreign affairs, he throws his support to the Mullahs and then the protesters win.
IMO, Obama lost face in world affairs this weekend.
highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Well maybe you will be throwing rocks but a bunch of folks will be throwing a lot harder and faster stuff. This country’s citizens have weapons…big nasty mean loud weapons. These videos give stark testament to the utility of having weapons to fight back with. Throwing rocks is so last epoch.
Also notice that running will get you killed. Never run because that vastly emboldens the enemy to chase you and kill you. Most of the battlefield deaths in set piece battles come when the enemy tries to flee the battlefield, always a bad idea.
PierreLegrand on June 22, 2009 at 1:11 PM
This phase may be on hold but time is on the side of the movement. It will ebb and flow, perhaps for years, but eventually the mullahs will go. It will be interesting to see how much the Shias in Iraq back the present regime after all IRG activity in Iraq and also whether Sunni money from Saudi Arabia can find it’s way to top military commanders in Iran. It will all take time.
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 1:11 PM
By checking history, thousands of more lives were most likely saved…and, the “peaceful protests” worked.
JetBoy on June 22, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Clearly you don’t understand what the term “arrest” means in places like Iraq. One of the reasons the embassies were taking in wounded protesters was the Iranians knew from past experience that protesters who sought medical help at hospitals were “arrested” and never heard from again.
highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 1:13 PM
In order to inspire the Iranians it would take a great orator and leader of the U.S. Oh , Reagan is no longer with us and the teleprompter wont work on the golf course. Then there’s that whole leadership thing. Maybe Yobama could organize one of their communities.
faol on June 22, 2009 at 1:14 PM
JetBoy on June 22, 2009
I think the mullah’s would laugh at their “civil disobedience” and keep cracking skulls anyway. I think the Iranian people know that “civility” will not win lasting freedom.
BTW, our own (potential) coming civil war will likewise be anything but.
I wonder if our military will open fire on their countrymen.
SKYFOX on June 22, 2009 at 1:14 PM
As “horrible” as liberal Americans want to believe America is, there is a huge difference between getting arrested here and getting arrested in Iran.
myrenovations on June 22, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Not when your opponent plans on killing you.
Count to 10 on June 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Their police certainly don’t appear to have their hearts in their work.
This could turn, but are the Iranians willing to die for freedom? When people get to that point, things turn, because the hearts deep inside all of us, yearn for it, including individuals in the police and military who might change allegiances if they observe such resolve.
Danzo on June 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Of course you can make the same case in reverse to justify dropping atomic bombs on Japan to end WWII. Thousands of more lives were most likely saved through the use of devastating weaponry.
highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM
JetBoy on June 22, 2009 at 1:05 PM
I hear ya and I won’t say which way is better because I’m not one of those who have to worry about getting shot in the chest by a Basiji thug. Still, the vid itself of the populace putting the government skull-crackers on the run was exhilarating.
Bishop on June 22, 2009 at 1:16 PM
Please let it be true. If it is, the regime is sunk.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:17 PM
there is a major difference between being arrested by the campus police at an American university and being arrested by the police enforcing the will of the Mullahs in Iran. Here you are about 99.9999% sure you will be home for dinner and get your picture in the paper. There you stand about that change of never being heard from again.
And they don’t have to arrest everyone. Like in other forms of terrorism, they only have to arrest enough to instill abject fear into the rest.
MikeA on June 22, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Or he could simply point an “Iranian czar” so that, in the future he won’t have his weekend spoiled by annoying international events. Plus that gives him somebody to throw under the bus when things in Iran get worse.
highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 1:18 PM
PierreLegrand on June 22, 2009 at 1:11 PM
I figure it will start with rocks, but don’t worry, if need be I’ll take the field with you armed with far more than chunks of masonry.
Bishop on June 22, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Fox had a reporter on about an hour ago who also emphasized the unconfirmed nature but told of the rumor…I can’t help but hope she had heard the rumor from enough people she felt it could be advanced on air with the disclaimer.
KittyLowrey on June 22, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Good post. Obviously these leftist MSM liars will say anything.
On the one hand, they claim the protestors were motivated by Obama’s error-laden, Islam Is Peace, speech in Cairo, rather than by an election stolen by Islamic fanatics.
On the other hand, if Obama speaks out in favor of democracy it will cause those trying to dethrone the theocratic dictatorship to give up.
AP’s posting is hilarious in its own right. On the one hand, the revolution is petering out. On the other hand, there’s a possible split in the Revolutionary Guard.
Basilsbest on June 22, 2009 at 1:20 PM
At some point, perhaps, people will embrace being arrested.
Why not? Unlike this country they don’t have a problem with prison overcrowding. Sentences are carried out rather swiftly.
Just A Grunt on June 22, 2009 at 1:22 PM
Basij types wouldn’t do well in this country, particularly if not in uniform. Giving them superficial police power wouldn’t stop the pushback. CCW laws would have to be repealed by the feds and they won’t be able to do that. It would be the spark which sets off the simmering resentment in this country.
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM
They can’t arrest everyone! :)
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM
Nope, they can’t, they can just beat the tar out of those they don’t arrest and drag them off by the thousands to be tossed into open-air kennels.
I do believe you think Iranians would be treated the same that hysterical moron protesters are treated in Berkeley, except that the Berkeley P.D. doesn’t whip you across the face with a bicycle chain before breaking your arm and throwing you into the back of a truck.
Bishop on June 22, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Sounds like they need to organize an underground and start working out some disposable codes and such.
AZCoyote on June 22, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Basiji’s would be like the New Black Panther’s showing up your polling place with clubs to make sure things went the ‘right’ way. They are protected by the leaders and the justice system.
We all know how far fetched that is. Somebody threatening somebody else at a polling place and getting by with it….
Just A Grunt on June 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Oh, I agree completely on that vid, and others, and I can’t say I don’t get some kind of satisfaction watching it.
But, and this goes out in reply to everyone above, yes…I suppose the kind of protests we’ve been seeing out of Iran the past few days are, all in all, inevitable. But how much longer can this go on, like it is now? A few more days? A week?
If the regime were to crack down and shoot civilians gathered in the most peaceful way….Now, how would THAT look to the rest of the world? And how would it result within Iran itself?
They’d be far more hesitant to murder sitting ducks. And it would look, and be, a far worse crime of humanity.
Just sayin’, is all.
JetBoy on June 22, 2009 at 1:29 PM
If they get themselves get peacefully arrested, they will be beaten, tortured or killed in private.
If they stay on the streets in loud protest, they will be beaten and killed, but for all the world to see.
myrenovations on June 22, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Actually, Read “Reading Lolita in Tehran.” It’s more complex than you might think.
They do a lot of arresting and releasing.
Also, I am a huge advocate of prison reform in the U.S. We have more than our fair share of unreasonable practices, which is born out statistically by the % incarcerated.
Again, my personal opinion is that we have work to do on ourselves. Let’s see where we are alike, rather than different.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Even now, the world is chanting Obama, Obama,Obama…that he may stretch out his mighty arms and merely speak this womans name and she will rise again alive!
Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 1:30 PM
http://tinyurl.com/nznpo9
A translation of that Farsi page
Larry Farr on June 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Anybody know why they would want her femoral bone?
TheBigOldDog on June 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM
The stage is being set, but if that continues we all know there will be a violent incident that creates blowback. The intimidation might work in certain areas but overall it is a losing proposition.
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM
No, I’m no state apologist for Iran. But…I have been interested and reading, and I have Iranian friends. They are just like us….mixed opinions about the severity issues.
My own conclusion is that they are like us in one respect. They go through waves. Our history in the civil rights movement, for example, was undeniably violent and embarassing. But we’ve changed.
What’s the “meta-text” is the anti-US sentiment from the State, even today. I think the population is obviously over their resentment of the Iran-Iraq war and our part.
They are like real people…..just move on.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:34 PM
It’s inevitable. :)
Globalization is awful in some respect, but the Iranian state is learning what we all have. You just can’t keep em’ down on the farm!
Dish TVs are very proliferate in Iran. Obviously, so are cell phones.
It’s over for this type of repressive government. They have just been kidding themselves with their state network messages.
A strike, however, would truly put the clerics into choosing.
It could work.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Check your history. Thousands died in those “peace full protests” of Ghandi.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 1:07 PM
I doubt the Iranian government has the same sort of class the British did in the same situation. See, the Brits essentially saw the Indians as inferior, but human beings.
The Iranian government doesn’t quite see the rabble as human beings.
Larry Farr on June 22, 2009 at 1:37 PM
That is the normal practice. During normal times of keeping the people in submission.
As you’ll recall from the book, one of the main characters who dared to protest was kept in prison for quite some time where horrible things happened to her. Because she was protesting. Not prostesting on the current scale, even.
The people who have been arrested over the last ten days are not going to be given the normal catch, intimidate and release treatment.
myrenovations on June 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM
The same tactics and strategy used in the ‘79 revolution are being used in this one by the protestors. Tactical use of the sequenced 40 day mourning period climaxing in more martyers at the 40 day end, leads to more mourning periods and continual strife. I anticipate a mullah crackdown on the Iranian tradition of the 40 day mourning activity to counter this, which adds to the tension. This race has a long way to run, unless the military sides with the opposition.
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 1:42 PM
At the risk of repeating myself–if this isn’t one big ad for the second amendment, what is? If even 1/100 of these protestors had a serious handgun, the Basiji a-holes would have had a completely different experience. Every once in a while they would have gotten shot off right off of their motorcycles. Ooooh, how do you like me now? Die like Neda, biotch. As it is. . . a really solid general strike that lasts a week might be a game-changer, but w/o major RG defections, I don’t see how they get can do it.
smellthecoffee on June 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Eh, the conflation of the American civil rights struggle with that of today’s Iran is to ignore the vast gulf of differences between the two societies, not the least of which is the utter disdain the Iranian national government has for its own people. All of them.
America had violence during our struggle, no doubt, but never once did any level of government expand the arena to include such barbarities as attack helicopters strafing civilian crowds. You want to concentrate on our similarities, while reality demands you concentrate on the differences.
Bishop on June 22, 2009 at 1:46 PM
I have no idea. Weird.
Zetterson on June 22, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Am I wrong in thinking a few pallets worth of aluminum Louisville Sluggers airdropped into the middle of the crowd would be advantageous at this point? Would certainly take the piss & vinegar out of those pansy-ass Basiji and their little nightsticks.
fusionaddict on June 22, 2009 at 1:50 PM
To anyone who might have contact with people in Iran …
Cellphones can be used as a bug to monitor conversations even when not in use. Even if you have it “turned off”. When you are not using the phone, remove the battery. Locations can be tracked and conversations monitored even if the phone is “off” as long as it has battery power.
crosspatch on June 22, 2009 at 1:50 PM
…she was engaged.
When I think of what I want done to these f***ing c***suckers, movies like Saw and Hostel fail to grasp my wishes.
All I want is horror for those who perpetrate this injustice.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:52 PM
Freedom is never free.
29Victor on June 22, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Those peaceful protests worked because they were protesting a Christian British empire, not a group of Islamic thugs.
They could fire people who don’t show up for work, but they cannot make people work. A work slow down would be hard to handle by oppression.
Right_of_Attila on June 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I know. I’m quite worried for them.
It could be a very long and harsh decade. They really should keep going on this. The strike is the answer.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM
There’s more we could have been doing all along. We were never restricted by any consideration to rhetoric only. Obama, however, has failed to use even that.
It’s the cohesion, confidence, and tactical capability of the regime we should have been going after. Instead, we’re letting it shut out the world and prepare to defeat its people with a kesselschlacht approach.
Pray for the Iranians. And yes, to all those above with this point: this ia a good reminder of the essential importance of the Second Amendment.
J.E. Dyer on June 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM
There is a museum in VA which you might wish to visit. It has actual torture devices used on slaves.
That might open your eyes.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Well, it looks like a spam filter might have eaten the URL I posted as a reference for my above “cell phone used as a bug” comment. Google “cellphone bug” and read the CNET story from 2006 where the FBI used cellphones as “roving bugs” to nab mobsters. The same technology can be used by Iran to use the cellphone microphone as a bug even when the phone is not “in use”.
crosspatch on June 22, 2009 at 1:58 PM
She was just a few months younger than I am.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Murdered after her music lesson, stuck in a traffic jam.
maverick muse on June 22, 2009 at 2:01 PM
She’s the same age as I am, too.
Mousavi or no Mousavi, they need to take back that country.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 2:02 PM
We’re no better than anyone else. Any example of barbarism abroad can be countered by you with one at home, or inflicted by us on others. Oh heavens,our incarcerations rates are so high, for ex.
How can you stand to live here, when other peoples and places have been our victims? Can’t you find any other place to live where the people are better than we are? it shouldn’t be hard.
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:04 PM
I knew we’d agree eventually.
That is exactly my point.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Who knows with some of the primitive creeps in that part of the world? Before Ann in CA attacks me for that, I know there are some good folks there too, but when dealing with the government types from almost any Muslim thugocracy, I’d not be surprised to hear that they used it to carve into napkin rings for the President.
MikeA on June 22, 2009 at 2:08 PM
America squanders her best opportunity in 30 years to topple the worst of the mullah governments. Why? Because we refuse to call monsters monsters in the hopes that they will think kindly of us. What a bunch of Sesame Streeters we have become.
Congratulations, all you peace morons. You just can’t help but throw open the gates and sprinkle flowers at the feet of your murderers.
Limerick on June 22, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Maybe so but only after thousands have died. You’re essentially suggesting that thousands sacrifice themselves in a hope that it’ll make a difference.
I get where you’re coming from, and considering they have no weapons, it may be their only solution, but it’s still a horrible one.
I personally would rather go down fighting.
Jet, isn’t that what they’re doing now? Neda was just standing there if reports are to be believed. Many who have been killed were likewise doing nothing but peaceful protest. They may have shouted, but I’ve seen nothing to indicate they in any way provoked their attacks. Have you?
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Let’s not topple anyone. Let’s learn to allow things to unfold.
It calls for a bit of self-discipline, I know.
But our interference has consequences that we often do not intend.
Let’s learn.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Cookie Monsters…..indeed.
Limerick on June 22, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Ha. I’m your elder!
Agreed. This cannot stand. So many people seem to simply be sitting on the sidelines as witnesses to a terrible chapter in history, but it has the potential for so much more, and they deserve it. Otherwise, it’s all in vain. The world will move on. Obama will meet with Ahmedinijad, legitimizing his administration and what it did to the Iranian people, and Neda will be forgotten.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Yes master. Grasshopper is thankful for your wise counsel.
Ann, have you read that book I told you about where you are mentioned?
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:14 PM
I assume your statistics of incarceration rates is some effort to show that America targets people of color for arrest. While it is true that our jails hold a disproportionate number of blacks, for example, as compared to whites, the statistics you think show bias can as easily be used to show predisposition to crime, a more prevalent acceptance of doing things wrong and less personal dedication to doing things right.
Besides, now that Obama is president, if all this imbalance were a white man’s sham to keep the blacks in line, why has he not fixed it yet? He could simply pardon them all if they are victims of racial oppression. He has that power.
MikeA on June 22, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Yes we know Ann.
It’s all good.
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:16 PM
I am very much against the standard thinking that we’re so much better than everyone. We shepherded Indian children into resident schools, away from their mothers and families. I can dig out the posts of those old men today who still cry at the memory if you need proof.
I am very much in favor of our founding principles. I respect other cultures, their religions, their ways. I often don’t understand fully, but I do know….respect is the solution.
I don’t see this as an any type of political statement about Obama. He’s hit an OK tone, different from Bush, but not really, in action. Conservative or Liberal, everyone seems to agree, arming or direct interference isn’t right.
This “debate” seems to be silly to me and all about word choice.
I don’t even get the right-wing meme on that. Who cares?
If we’re not heading into war, and we’re clearly not about to do that on behalf of the protesters, who cares what he says?
His position that he’s not going to go overboard is legitimate.
The fact is, that’s close to what Bush would have done, too.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Yes, we know Ann. Good and evil.
It’s all good.
(ur mask slipped, but I knew who u were anyway. You’re timeless.)
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:17 PM
No, those stats have always seemed self-evident to me.
I’m talking about the percentage of the population incarcerated.
It’s quite high.
I think the recession is going to help, actually. We can’t afford this nonsense now.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:18 PM
Learn what?
That some men just need killin’? That is the lesson that should be taught. You can’t grow flies without maggots.
Limerick on June 22, 2009 at 2:18 PM
OBAMA SUCKS, PEOPLE ARE FU**ED.
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Obama’s silence in the Iranian protests reminds me of Flatnose at the end of this Butch Cassidy clip.
Guest1.1 on June 22, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Dear God.
youngO on June 22, 2009 at 2:21 PM
If only we could all learn to be indifferent, what a beautiful world it would be.
The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it’s indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it’s indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it’s indifference.
– Elie Wiesel
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 2:21 PM
What’s with the constant one-liners?
With space between the lines?
Is this a cut-and-paste thing?
Am I doing it right?
Let’s learn from Ann, tee-hee*
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Lox….Sometimes, you just have to pray.
That’s the only appropriate action.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Well that did not work I will try again.Here
Guest1.1 on June 22, 2009 at 2:24 PM
America squanders her best opportunity in 30 years to topple the worst of the mullah governments. Why? Because we refuse to call monsters monsters in the hopes that they will think kindly of us. What a bunch of Sesame Streeters we have become.
Congratulations, all you peace morons. You just can’t help but throw open the gates and sprinkle flowers at the feet of your murderers.
Limerick on June 22, 2009 at 2:08 PM
this near-perfect post deserves reposting.thanks L
max1 on June 22, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Ann is not for indifference. Ann is for a blurring of the distinctions between good and evil, for an acceptance of moral relativism whose results are already well-known. She is a virus that finds few hosts elsewhere, but sees America as fertile ground. I think you, Lox, of all people, know who Ann is.
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:26 PM
And we have Ann here specifically to show us the mind of our enemy, who has led us to this moment of Am. shame.
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Very good approach with Lox Ann. Well done.
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM
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