US will not engage Taliban near housing
posted at 2:32 pm on June 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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The US will change its rules of engagement in order to ease tensions between NATO and the Hamid Karzai government in Afghanistan. New theater commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal will order American troops not to engage Taliban terrorists in houses in order to avoid the collateral damage that comes from urban warfare — and the political damage it does to Karzai. Instead, US forces will retreat unless retreat is impossible (h/t HA reader Geoff A):
The top U.S. general in Afghanistan will soon formally order U.S. and NATO forces to break away from fights with militants hiding in Afghan houses so the battles do not kill civilians, a U.S. official said Monday.
The order would be one of the strongest measures taken by a U.S. commander to protect Afghan civilians in battle. American commanders say such deaths hurt their mission because they turn average Afghans against the government and U.S. and NATO forces.
Civilian casualties are a major source of friction between Afghan President Hamid Karzai and the U.S. The U.N. says U.S., NATO and Afghan forces killed 829 civilians in the Afghan war last year.
Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who took command of international forces in Afghanistan this month, has said his measure of effectiveness will be the “number of Afghans shielded from violence,” and not the number of militants killed.
McChrystal will issue orders within days saying troops may attack insurgents hiding in Afghan houses if the U.S. or NATO forces are in imminent danger and must return fire, said U.S. military spokesman Rear Adm. Greg Smith.
Wee Willy Keeler, the Hall of Fame batter, once said that the secret of hitting in baseball was to “hit ‘em where they ain’t.” Keeler was right about baseball. I’m skeptical that the same approach can work against terrorists who exploit civilians for targets as well as shields. If we retreat from urban confrontation, it seems to me that we concede ground in the fight against the Taliban, and provide greater incentives to them for using homes in Afghanistan and Pakistan as bases for their terrorist operations.
To be fair, though, McChrystal — and Barack Obama — are in a tough spot. There is no doubt that our aggressive pursuit of Taliban terrorists in residential areas creates a big, big problem for the democratically-elected Karzai government. Civilian deaths have increased, and with them anger at NATO and the potential for more radicalization. We need more cooperation from Afghanis against the Taliban in order to get better targeting that would alleviate the problem, but we can’t get that while we’re alienating Afghanis through collateral killings.
It’s the basic conundrum of fighting terrorists. How do you kill them without making more of them? Donald Rumsfeld once called that the “known unknown,” and we can add to that the risk of Karzai’s government falling for one much less inclined to allow NATO to operate against the Taliban and al-Qaeda. There are no easy answers, and McChrystal’s new plan may produce better overall results — but it still seems like a step backwards. We should watch carefully as to how McChrystal plans to keep Taliban out of the cities to avoid having the problem in the first place — and I’d bet he has a plan to do just that.
Update: JD Johannes keeps his powder dry, and agrees that this could be more effective than what we’d previously done — depending on the actual wording in the order.
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Let’s publicize it!
artist on June 22, 2009 at 2:35 PM
I have absolutely no military background. I would not know my a@@ from a hole in the ground when it comes to most military matters. I’m even a crappy Monday Morning Quarterback.
I wanted that all out there before I stated that this sounds like it is not going to work out well for our troops.
myrenovations on June 22, 2009 at 2:37 PM
Artist – Exactly.
I’ve never understood the American military letting the enemy know where and how it will fight.
Of course, the tough part has always been making sure the enemy keeps to the same rules.
Larry Farr on June 22, 2009 at 2:38 PM
So if the Taliban take over a urban center we do what? Send a congratulations card?
WashJeff on June 22, 2009 at 2:39 PM
yea, the greatest word to give the troops to increase moral and combat efficiency…….”Retreat”
the Coondawg on June 22, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Does a cave qualify as a house?
how about a pile of smoking rubble?
max1 on June 22, 2009 at 2:40 PM
Bring out the government issued burqas and blend in with the locals. See a Taliban enforcer in the area, blast him with a silincer through the burqa.
WashJeff on June 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Taliban, the couch potatoes of the Middle East.
Cindy Munford on June 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM
Why does this sound like the mistake made in Iraq before the surge?
PackerBronco on June 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM
The POS POTUS just gave our enemies haven. When can we call this treason?
How about this: Just escape the world, defund the military, and declare the United States world property. Oh, wait! That would remove the POS POTUS as Dear Leader. Such a quandary for him. But, thankfully, not for us.
We know what to do. Now to get from point A to point B.
Liam on June 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM
I am with you Ed.
If you think about it, many afghan people protect them as they are family members.
What can one do then?
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 2:42 PM
War is hell. There sould be no safe havens. Maybe bombing houses it will help get the Afghan public off their asses and run the taliban out of their neighborhoods.
An eye for an eye. those shmucks don’t worry about innocents.
saiga on June 22, 2009 at 2:42 PM
LMAO! +10
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 2:43 PM
So we are telling the Taliban to hide in houses with women and children?
- The Cat
MirCat on June 22, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Great so now we are the Bizzaro Winston Churchill
“We shall not fight on the beaches, we shall not fight on the landing grounds, we shall not fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall not fight in the hills; and with Obama’s help we might surrender”
LincolntheHun on June 22, 2009 at 2:43 PM
My initial impression is that this is not a wise move, but I’m not a military strategist. My question is, what does Petraeus think of this? If he signed off on this, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
He did recently talk about increased violence in Afghanistan as we “go after safe havens.” Not sure how these pieces fit together.
cs89 on June 22, 2009 at 2:44 PM
In a perfect world, our troops would not engage because the Predators are quickly approaching to do the job for them…
I can’t say that I hate our president, but I’m thoroughly ashamed and disgusted with him.
revolutionismyname on June 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM
who broke the story first, oh let me guess THE NEW YORK TIMES!!!!!
SHARPTOOTH on June 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Then every house becomes a safe haven. It’s like saying “We will negotiate with hostage takers”.
I’d opt for more advanced precision weapons.
the_nile on June 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM
If the Americans destroyed neighborhoods containing Taliban fighters, the men living in other neighborhoods would begin purging the Taliban from their midst, as best they could. Failure would carry a high price.
Kralizec on June 22, 2009 at 2:46 PM
O/T
Hawkdriver said you have adopted his group, if you need anything please know that blatantblue has my email address. Seriously, anything I can do, let me know.
Cindy Munford on June 22, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Welcome to Vietnam Redux.
irongrampa on June 22, 2009 at 2:46 PM
This reminds me of “in order to save the village, we had to destroy it.”
In order to fight the Taliban, we won’t engage them.
Great.
I love it when nonsense becomes the letter of the day. If you’re not going to engage the Taliban in a “housing” area, just come on home.
This sounds like how the war in Vietnam was fought. By allowing the enemy to dictate the battlefield.
OhEssYouCowboys on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
It might be better to opt for just whatever is effective and affordable.
Kralizec on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
So, we just told our enemies that we will NOT attack them while they are completing their mission, which is terrorising the Afgan Population.
We just threw the Afgans to the wolves….
Romeo13 on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Dhimmitude and stupidity. Great. Surest way to lose.
You can kiss any success in Afghanistan goodbye. This is the end coming on strong, and not a pretty end, at that.
No, they’re not. They are putting themselves into a tough spot, an untenable spot, but that is purely by their choice, not due to any circumstances.
You still don’t understand anything about the nature of these cultures, Ed. They don’t get ticked at being attacked and killed. Life is extremely cheap in their cultures. They get really ticked about people shaming themselves by not fighting like men. Nothing drives them crazier than that. Imagine if the US were invaded by an army of men wearing pink tutus. Even aside from anything else they did, wearing the pink tutus would make many Americans (those who didn’t vote for The Precedent) mad that they were making such fun of us while doing whatever else they were doing. Well, take that and multiply it by 1,000,000 and that is how Afghanis look at armies that refuse to engage their enemies in a ruthless fashion. It offends Afghanis and THAT is what generates extremism among them and more radicalism, in addition to the fact that these suicidal ROEs give enough of an advantage to the taliban that it whets the appetite of the population in that they see that the taliban could actually win, against such an army that fights in such a half-azzed way.
Death doesn’t cause islamic extremism. The taste of their possible victory does. Some day people in the West will learn this …
progressoverpeace on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
This is not because of Pres Obama. This has been going on the entire time of the WOT, with changes periodically (including under Pres Bush) with how aggressively terrorists are pursued and targeted.
exhelodrvr on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I disagree. I remember a certain Mosque in Iraq that Al Sadr was holed up in. I think we should have blown him to hell. This aint no picnic, it is war. Take the gloves off. If people in urban areas in Afghanistan are harboring terrorists, they are complicit.
infidel on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
Until some of the training and operations behind airstrikes are improved, I think this is a good policy. Just last month 140 civilians were killed by the US in one strike. That helps no one but the enemy.
Of course once the confidence levels are back up they can always resume attacking urban areas but airstrikes aren’t really productive if your goal is to win over the public and have locals defend against Taliban infestation.
lexhamfox on June 22, 2009 at 2:48 PM
actually Cindy.. I could use some help. He has 19 guys. I only ask for your name and address to send to Hawk’s major as they are getting some weird Liberal mail … it is more for precautionary.
my email is helpingpalin@gmail.com anyone is welcome to help me and the other who are starting to help out. :)
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 2:48 PM
I guess they will have to float convoy info and set up traps. I am sure our military will come up or has come up with some scathingly brilliant ideas.
Cindy Munford on June 22, 2009 at 2:48 PM
Shades of Vietnam, where the rules of engagement made the soldiers job more difficult and dangerous. We’re back to fighting wars with at least one hand tied behind our backs.
rplat on June 22, 2009 at 2:49 PM
So now they’re using the same tactics against us as Hamas did against Israel…
Hide in the civilian population.
Obama’s just stalemated Afghanistan.
Skywise on June 22, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Then every house becomes a safe haven. It’s like saying “We will negotiate with hostage takers”.
I’d opt for more advanced precision weapons.
the_nile on June 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM
i opt for kill them all let allah sort them out, win the war!
SHARPTOOTH on June 22, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Well, I most certainly can.
betsyz on June 22, 2009 at 2:51 PM
It won’t work, as it’s designed and obama knows it. After WW II, against the Nazi Werewolves, if out guys caught sniper fire from a town our artillery leveled the town. That’s how to win a war.
I don’t think the POS in the WH wants to lose, because that threatens the turd’s power. He wants to perpetuate, to keep the people alarmed, vis-a-vis Machiavelli and Orwell’s 1984.
With addicts of any type there is often an enabler. POS wants to enable our enemies, so he can and his party can assume all control. Tyranny is the ultimate aim here. If POS cared a whit for our troops, he’d tell them that if it shoots at you, shoot back to kill with all and extreme prejudice. Nothing on Earth is more valuable than the life of an American soldier.
Except to POS Obama, that is.
Liam on June 22, 2009 at 2:51 PM
And Taliban soldiers can only be attacked after they’ve clocked in for their shift.
Cicero43 on June 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Great so now we are the Bizzaro Ward
instonChurchill“We shall not fight on the beaches, we shall not fight on the landing grounds, we shall not fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall not fight in the hills; and with Obama’s help we might surrender”
LincolntheHun on June 22, 2009 at 2:43 PM
(if you don’t mind my “meddling” with your great quote) :)
max1 on June 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Do the collateral killings also alienate the Afghanis from the Taliban? If not, why?
JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Unbelievable! That sounds like a winning plan! It should be, “take no prisoners.”
GFW on June 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Exactly how will this be measured? Sounds a lot like “saving jobs” in our economic sector, doesn’t it? Hell, they can’t even tell miltants from civilians in a lot of cases.
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 2:53 PM
And the citizenry will be more likely to welcome the Taliban moving into their urban centers knowing that their presence will not bring about US attacks.
More people will join the Taliban now that it’s safer. You create more terrorists with policies like this.
Buddahpundit on June 22, 2009 at 2:55 PM
We are the strongest military on the planet, are we not?
The Taliban should be dust by now.
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 2:55 PM
Done!
Cindy Munford on June 22, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Sent back info ! :)
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 2:57 PM
Democrat as Commander In Chief I see. Tie our troops hands in combat. Nothing new here. Same bunch of pansies pretending to have the guts to fight. Lord how I despise Democrats.
Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Hmmm, maybe Obama, who bows to the King of Saudi Arabia and refuses to stand with the citizens of Iran fighting for their very lives against the religious thugocracy there, actually wants the U.S. to lose in Afghanastan.
maryo on June 22, 2009 at 2:59 PM
maryo on June 22, 2009 at 2:59 PM
I think that if Obama cared about this country he would not have run for POTUS simply because he has the ‘gift of gab’
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM
Oh, he cares about one thing – himself. Period. End of story.
maryo on June 22, 2009 at 3:04 PM
We have officially lost Afghanistan to the jihad, thanks to Obama. And just when the Pakistani army has gotten off it’s ass, there was a real chance to put the squeeze on the taliban.
Maybe it’s not a coincidence.
Rebar on June 22, 2009 at 3:04 PM
Hamstringing the military got us the results of the Viet-Nam War, and will do the same, here and now.
Its got to be drummed into the Afghan skull that if you don’t HELP route these bastards, you ASSIST them. You give them ground, they’ll go to it. Rangers, Force Recon, SeALs and USA SRT MP units have to seek and destroy in these housing areas, heavily backed by the 3ID. The best weapon: Special Forces. They know the land and the people, and can work to convey the message to them that if they don’t help more, they’re going to end up like the last big group that failed to help defend their own homes and fight terror: the residents of FALLUJAH.
Virus-X on June 22, 2009 at 3:04 PM
We can’t kill ‘em where they are.
We can’t kill ‘em where they ain’t.
Sounds like a winning strategy to me…
catmman on June 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM
And if retreat is impossible is it then surrender before self defense or victory?
Prime Minister Harper, time to pull the boys out, they should not have to fight beside the lost intent on endless semi self defeats.
BL@KBIRD on June 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM
What about fighting Taliban hiding in Dairy Queens? Chuckee Cheese?
Insanity.
guntotinglibertarian on June 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM
New, smart military strategy:
“Yoo, whoo. Come out, come out wherever you are.”
Followed by:
“I am here, first and foremost to make you aware of your
Miranda rights.”
Awesome!!!
betsyz on June 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM
I believe the most advanced precision weapon we have in our arsenal is a US Army infantryman. In a clinch a marine is fine too.
BohicaTwentyTwo on June 22, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Coming from the A.P. there is more to this than the attention grabbing pull quotes. Our military have the double duty of fighting an asymmetrical war and tring to show the world we are not barbarians. Killing civilians is not our objective but for everyone that is killed it gives the enemy propaganda ammunition to use for recruiting. I think I side with the General on this one. The whole miranda
warning crap is going way to far.
fourdeucer on June 22, 2009 at 3:09 PM
Hmmmm! If we aren’t going after them when they are in villages, it seems like they can’t go after us unless they come out of hiding.
How does this change our fighting method? I believe that our forces can adapt to any battlefield. Smaller, quicker, forces making use of snipers and Afghanis? Sending Barack in to talk them to death?
Vince on June 22, 2009 at 3:10 PM
I’ve always maintained that the U.S.’s policy of trying to minimize civilian deaths has resulted in more civilians being killed. I realize it’s hard for me to show with hard numbers — not unlike Barack Obama claiming that he has saved jobs in America.
No matter how much our enemies and liberals claim that we kill civilians with impunity, the combatants on the ground know the truth. They know that U.S. ground, air, and naval forces do not target civilians or civilian areas, so, of course, that is where they hide. They use civilians as shields knowing that we will bend over backwards to keep from hurting a civilian.
Civilians know this, too. They will not leave an area when fighters — both regular and irregular — show up in their neighborhoods. They have little to fear.
If we targeted the enemy no matter where they sought refuge, eventually collateral damage and deaths would decline. If civilians knew that when those hostile to the U.S. showed up, that our bombs would soon destroy everything around, they would flee or resist.
Instead, we fool ourselves by thinking that modern wars can be fought with minimal wounding of civilians and limited destruction of civilian assets. I’m guessing that our “surgical strikes” are more like a butchering floor than a operating room.
I’ve also contended that we need not tangle ourselves in these messes until the American public is ready to fight a war over there the way it needs to be fought: Sherman style. Until we are willing to make war distasteful to these nations, we will always fight them. Until we commit to complete victory and unconditional surrender, then we will always fight them. It will never end. Our soldiers will continue to die, and civilians will continue to get mixed up in these hellish little battles until the end of time.
I’ve often wondered where the U.S. citizens’ trip wire is located. Where is the point that we will not take anymore and go after our enemies like a pent up torrent? Where is it? Many thought it was with the destruction of some of our buildings, but leftists started wetting their beds as soon as we started bombing terrorists in Afghanistan (a leftist friend of mine condemned the U.S. response in anticipation of that response in 2001).
I hate to say it, but Afghanistan just became hopeless with the change to the rules of engagement. A lot of Americans will needlessly die over there.
The irony is that Democrats compared U.S. involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq to Vietnam, and they have now made it like Vietnam.
Ampleforth on June 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM
Oh, you gotta be shittin’ me. Politicians running the war, huh? Shades of Vietnam. Great.
For the record, if I end up in Afghanistan in 9 months rather than Iraq – something pretty likely – my compliance with this policy will last right up until the moment somebody inside a house fires on my men.
And then I’m going to frickin’ level the house and probably half the neighborhood. Because in a choice between taking care of my soldiers and obeying some painfully brain-dead publicly announced political policy – there is no choice.
They can court-martial me afterward if they want.
I thought we learned our lessons on this kind of crap 40 years ago.
Professor Blather on June 22, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Anything that puts American troops in danger is a bad idea. Is this the type of military stupidity that we can expect from Obama’s generals? We fought a defensive war in Vietnam and lost a large chuck of that generation. Now we have Dems in charge during a war, again. May God help our military men and women.
Hening on June 22, 2009 at 3:15 PM
If I was the general, I’d already have special forces in burqas in the cities with automatic weapons waiting for the Taliban to try moving in. Then make this announcement to get them to make a (fatal) move.
Right_of_Attila on June 22, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Nope… wish they were.
How are you doing over in the hot house? I would adopt you too but we never see you anymore?!?!
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Have you seen what constitutes “housing” in that part of the world?
It’s not like rolling into New Rochelle…
If there are more than five or six rows of intact mud bricks on at least three sides…it is “housing.” If it has an intact roof then it is deluxe “housing” in many parts of Afghanistan.
coldwarrior on June 22, 2009 at 3:21 PM
There are only two ways to defeat an enemy… Take away his ability to fight (as we did by bombing the ball bearing plants in Germany in WWII), or take away his WILL to fight.
With Jihadists and the multinational and transnational support they get, without bombing IRAN and Saudi, we cannot take away their Ability, to fight…
Thus, we must attack the WILL to fight. Their will stems from RELIGIOUS writings, and we will not attack that (heck we can’t even make fun of it)… so the only other method we have to attack their Will, is FEAR… make it clear that if you “F” with us, the outcome is clear, and devastating.
We are going the EXACT wrong way IMO. Being NICE has not, and will not, work.
We need to get MEAN… to the point where the Afgan people, like the Iraqis before them, decide to throw out the bad guys.
Romeo13 on June 22, 2009 at 3:21 PM
If that is the ROE, then get our troops out.
Johan Klaus on June 22, 2009 at 3:24 PM
“Engage” is the old term. From now on, let’s just have “robust dialogue” with them, right, Barry?
Christien on June 22, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Killing the terrorist supporting Tollybahn is not exactly at the top of our president’s to-do list. His name is Barack H. Obama. Connect the dots yourself.
Little Boomer on June 22, 2009 at 3:27 PM
You guys have forgotten one thing. As a follow-up to Mirandizng the enemy, we can always serve a search warrant on them, too.
Problem fixed.
:O)
OhEssYouCowboys on June 22, 2009 at 3:28 PM
coldwarrior on June 22, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Ah I see you have been there as well. Such a nice place I am sure tourism will soon be a major industry for them.
LincolntheHun on June 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM
Professor Blather on June 22, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Thanks for your service~
And if you do what you say and get in ‘trouble’ for it…I’ll personally recruit hundreds of thousands of fellow Americans to defend you. Hey..we can do this!
My father went to West Point, My husband is a Marine.
Where Ever you end up (with Obama in charge, the world is heating up all over) ..You could end up in a number of places. Godspeed 2 U. And to anyone else that reads Hot Air and is serving. Thank U! Get ‘er Done. :)
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM
This is what happens when you pretend you are not at war with a population dedicated to protecting Al Qaeda.
We killed 11% of Japan’s population in WW2. We had military units whose stated mission was to go out and kill noncombatant fishermen and cargo haulers. We leveled cities. If we had to do it again with this government, we’d lose rather than violate their–not our–values.
Chris_Balsz on June 22, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Romeo13 on June 22, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Our military is far better educated,far better trained and far more sophisticated than we were in Viet-Nam. Hell our boot camp was abreviated just to get us over there quicker.Killing the enemy is tough but if you ever had the experience of Med-Vac ing W.P. victims that shared the same ville with V.C. it is tougher. We are not going to handicap our brave soldiers by protecting civilians. Look at the outrage over the death of Neda.
fourdeucer on June 22, 2009 at 3:36 PM
That’s the sort of unconditional defeat scenario that America has always prided itself on! Seek out and destroy the enemy wherever he is located. Unless he’s near someone.
If I was a Taliban leader who was unsure about the use of human shields, this would certainly solve my dilemma.
hawksruleva on June 22, 2009 at 3:39 PM
This is nothing new. I just attended a welcome home party for 3 Marines from Afghanistan. They were on the front line in a stalemate position under orders for 7 months not to engage the Taliban. They told me they can see hundreds of them along a tree line ridge and are not allowed to take them out. The Taliban are constantly using sniper fire on them and they cannot return fire. They said they are dejected, pissed off, and outraged they are there and cannot take out the enemy. It’s politics over principle.
roninacreage on June 22, 2009 at 3:39 PM
I guess Publishers Clearing House has free reign over there now?
0321_GUY on June 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Funny thing is, we’re not fighting under their values. In their culture, most of what America is doing is considered signs of weakness and moral decay. Take, for example, Al Qaeda’s stance on collateral damage. To them, it’s justified in the Koran as long as it furthers the cause of defeating the infidel. So our argument that “we hold the higher moral ground” is laughable from their point of view. What’s higher moral ground than doing Allah’s will?
hawksruleva on June 22, 2009 at 3:42 PM
So we are fighting urban warfare but our side doesn’t get to engage the “the man made disasters” in well the urban area…this only makes sense if you are a pandering politician so Karzai thinks this is how he will knit a coalition together sans George W Bush’s support to hold onto power?
Every time you tie the hands of the people you have sent in to fight the battle for you – it is because of politicians..who don’t understand the concept fight to win. They fight to stay in power, it is self serving at best.
This is what happened to NATO, check out their terms of engagement how many NATO troops died after they took over after 2005? Who wants to see more dead American Military Service People? Who wants to $Spend$ more Americans to appease politicians? Mind you not really good politicians just average or mediocre politicians.
So what is the plan for Afghanistan? The specific Mission if it isn’t to fight to win? We know how well appeasing the Taliban has worked in Pakistan, yeah we better let up on them, someone (Pashtuns) a Taliban sympathizer, might get hurt or killed.
Dr Evil on June 22, 2009 at 3:42 PM
American advice to Taliban: Hide in houses.
This is exactly the opposite of the “surge” strategy that was so successful in Iraq: American soldiers camped out in abandoned houses in cities, talked to Iraqis living around them, who eventually trusted them enough to “rat” on Al Qaeda operatives nearby, who were then targeted by house raids.
So if the Taliban take over a house in an Afghan city, they will intimidate the neighbors, who will NOT alert the Americans to their presence, because the Americans won’t attack houses! Brilliant Stategery, Barack?
Oh, while you’re at it, Brother Barack, why don’t you draw a map of Pockyston’s nuclear weapons installations, and post it on al-Jazeera? It will prevent the Taliban from accidentally killing civilians on the way there, right?
/sarc
Steve Z on June 22, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Looks like the rules of engagement that us Brits used in Southern Iraq and we all know how that turned out, might as well pull out now!!
TrueBrit on June 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM
Stanley McChrystal will order American troops not to engage Taliban terrorists in
housesThe White House!I think thats what he meant to say or should have said!
dhunter on June 22, 2009 at 3:45 PM
The Afghan Army doesn’t want any houses damaged before they can loot them.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 22, 2009 at 3:46 PM
On a historical note, this thread comes on the 68th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union.
Sort of an eye-opener on how the fighting of a war has changed.
OhEssYouCowboys on June 22, 2009 at 3:48 PM
That is the stupidest ROE I have EVER heard of.
The first thing the taliban will do is base themselves in houses and lob mortars day and night into our bases and convoys.
This commander should be releaved right now.
sonofdy on June 22, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Um, didn’t we try something like this in Vietnam?
I don’t remember hearing that it worked out well.
Count to 10 on June 22, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Even I know you got it backwards and I was a pansy flyboy for heavens sake.
chemman on June 22, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Maybe the Iranians can lend us a little tear gas.
T J Green on June 22, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Thank you for your service. :)
Hopefully it doesn’t come to a CM, but put down to help pay for your defense if it does.
chemman on June 22, 2009 at 3:55 PM
The U.S. Army will now be limited to attacking terrorists and Taliban fighters through persistent, annoying telemarketing calls at all hours of the day and night.
Cicero43 on June 22, 2009 at 3:56 PM
roninacreage on June 22, 2009 at 3:39 PM
That’s just sad, and just from talking to the Marines I know…WOW, I can feel their outrage. They are professionals. Sometimes I wish they were as crazy as people make them sound. Break the law and KILL THE ENEMY already.
“break the law and kill the enemy”
Did I just say that? unbelievable.
Let our men go. Let them do what they are trained to do. Kill the enemy. We’ll be done and back home in no time.
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 3:56 PM
Here’s the funny thing about the “politically sensitive” solution. If we’d taken the warmongers’ advice years ago, we’d have already attacked the Taliban bases in Pakistan, killed them, apologized profusely, built new roads, hospitals and airports, apologized, and left. Pakistan’s anger would’ve already been replaced by the cozy benefits of a peaceful civil society.
hawksruleva on June 22, 2009 at 3:57 PM
This ROE will get americans killed.
sonofdy on June 22, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Put another way, if you don’t kill the cockroach when it skitters across the floor, you’ll be killing thousands of cockroaches later.
hawksruleva on June 22, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Hmmm. This was the same problem that we solved successfully in Iraq.
Wonder what we did there to succeed. Anybody ask? I konw one guy who knows: he commanded an engineer battalion in Iraq and had a very successful tour – provided lots of infrasructure and the local Iraqis loved him.
Wonder what he did right – anybody think of asking the folks who have already demonstrated success and have an effective track record?
ElRonaldo on June 22, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Instead of giving us counts of numbers of Taliban killed, we will now get counts of numbers of villagers saved.
ICBM on June 22, 2009 at 3:59 PM
We don’t need any more John Murtha’s John Kerry’s (I DESPISE THE MILITARY) Bill Clinton’s or giving the left excuses to spit on our service men & women. Yes, kill the enemy but come home proud.
fourdeucer on June 22, 2009 at 3:59 PM
You can only do that AFTER you kill off the enemies fighters because they simply blow up what you biuld after you are done. See pre-surge Iraq.
sonofdy on June 22, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Here’s a possible alternative solution for Mr. Karzai. How about evacuating the civilians from areas that are Taliban-controlled? Once we’ve finished pounding the area and exterminating the bad guys, we’ll build the people new homes.
hawksruleva on June 22, 2009 at 4:01 PM
So in the nObama fantasy world of moral equivalancy, terrorists are to be Mirandized and Afghani civilians are worth more than our miltary personel….God Damn America indeed.
Behold the reality destroying power of pigment, all hail the Messiah!
dmann on June 22, 2009 at 4:01 PM
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