Endgame?

posted at 8:46 am on June 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

The moment of truth has come in Iran.  The Guardian Council and Ali Khamenei have played their last card — and it might be a trump.  The Revolutionary Guard has now threatened to meet the protestors in the streets and give them a “revolutionary confrontation”:

Iran’s Revolutionary Guard is threatening to crush any further opposition protests over the disputed presidential election and warns demonstrators to prepare for a “revolutionary confrontation” if they take to the streets again.

The country’s most powerful military force ordered demonstrators to “end the sabotage and rioting activities” and said their resistance is a “conspiracy” against Iran.

A statement posted Monday on the Guard’s website warned protesters to “be prepared for a resolution and revolutionary confrontation with the Guards, Basij and other security forces and disciplinary forces.”

The mullahs have given up on the police and Basijis alone.  The Friday warning from Ali Khamenei, the prince formerly known as the divine and Supreme Leader, did nothing to stop Iranians from filling the streets this weekend.  Increasing brutality from the Basijis and police resulted in hundreds of arrests, dozens of deaths, and one national martyr for the opposition, but no end to the protests.  The police and Basijis have failed to put Iranians back in their place as subjects, and the only option left is a military operation to clear the streets.

If the Revolutionary Guard makes good on its threat, the transition to military dictatorship will be complete.  The mullahs will have no credibility with the people and will remain completely reliant on its army to maintain power internally.  The Revolutionary Guard will understand this well, and will quickly turn Khamenei and his elders into nothing more than puppets for the Guard’s purposes.  The question then will be whether the Guard can maintain control over 70 million Iranians who have already lost faith in their theocrats and never assented to rule by military force.

That assumes the Revolutionary Guard will remain cohesive.  Their senior leadership will see this as a way to grab power, but the rank and file may find it difficult to go to war with their own people, especially against Iranians protesting an election that the Revolutionary Guard considers stolen from one of their own.  Will the Revolutionary Guard maintain cohesion as they march into Iran’s cities and kill women and children?  The fact that the mullahs have to play this card makes the question all the more critical.

Update: Unconfirmed reports have the opposition calling for a general strike of indeterminate length starting tomorrow.  That will be difficult for a military operation to counter, and will further undermine the mullahs, if successful.

Update II: Allahpundit retweets a report from Tehran that claims the streets have gone quiet today, with Basiji and police patrolling in large numbers.  The strike may be the next phase, if it’s true and it’s successful.

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Comment pages: 1 2

As a generality, oppressive regimes like to keep the army away from the capitol – keeps the ambitious generals from getting bad ideas.

Mew

acat on June 22, 2009 at 8:51 AM

The mullah bastards are on the run. STRIKE!

RobCon on June 22, 2009 at 8:52 AM

For the Iranian people’s sake, I hope this is not the end.

Would of, could of, should of… the one.

singlemalt_18 on June 22, 2009 at 8:52 AM

Ironic that these supposed rough and tough “revolutionary guards” are only rough and tough against unarmed people. I seem to remember Saddam Hussein’s hotshot revolutionary guards running and hiding at the first sound of gunfire.

bradley11 on June 22, 2009 at 8:53 AM

This would be a perfect time for Isreal to do their thing. I wish we would go along for the strike, but we have a gutless speech maker as our president.

THE CHOSEN ONE on June 22, 2009 at 8:53 AM

Will the Revolutionary Guard maintain cohesion as they march into Iran’s cities and kill women and children? The fact that the mullahs have to play this card makes the question all the more critical.

Will the Obama administration continue cowering if such an atrocity occurs or will the filthy liar in the White House man up and condemn the regime instead of making it clear that he’s still willing to sit down and talk with them? What about world reaction? Control over the streets has consequences too.

highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 8:54 AM

who really runs the Rev. Guard?

kelley in virginia on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

If this nonsense ends now perhaps we can start considering realistic ways to end Iran’s nuclear ambitions. As it is this rook to Queens five diversion has succeeded beyond Tehran’s wildest expectations in getting the west and especially America to forget about their nuclear weapons program.

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

This would be a perfect time for Isreal to do their thing.
THE CHOSEN ONE on June 22, 2009 at 8:53 AM

You can’t be serious. Israeli action would justify the extreme repression and serve as a rallying point.

highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

I can hardly wait for Obama to re-extend the open hand of dialog about their desire for nuclear energy.

Skywise on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Godspeed to the Iranian resistance. I can only imagine how chilling it must feel as modern life seems to come to a halt… the eye of the storm feeling.

All I can say is that the world leaders had better be prepared to step up their game if Iran falls under a complete dictatorship.

Siobhan on June 22, 2009 at 8:57 AM

You can’t be serious. Israeli action would justify the extreme repression and serve as a rallying point.

highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

And you have fallen for the Iranian bait and switch.

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 8:57 AM

Gee, what would happen here in the former United States if the producers of labor and revenue decided to go on general strike? How would Pasha Hussein al-Chicago make us go back to work? Would we see Obamacore and ACORN thugs with billy clubs break down doors to frog march residents back to work?

Doubtful since al-Chicago doesn’t have the cajones to risk direct confrontation with an armed citizenry.

Interesting concept tho’

SeniorD on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Whichever way it ends, with regime change, or with exposure of the clerics as nothing more than a brutal military dictatorship, it’s better than what they now have.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

I suspect if wholesale slaughter occurs or is contemplated, we will start to see fissures between army elements and the IRGC. It appears some commanders have already been arrested and I assume a main focus of the regime is to prevent those fissures from widening.

a capella on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Allahpundit retweets a report from Tehran that claims the streets have gone quiet today, with Basiji and police patrolling in large numbers.

Isn’t the candlelight vigil supposed to start later?

Phoenician on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

All I can say is that the world leaders had better be prepared to step up their game if Iran falls under a complete dictatorship.

Siobhan on June 22, 2009 at 8:57 AM

How can it fall under something it has been under for the last 30 years??

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

just listening to bill bennett, a caller asked if this situation would have occurred if saddam was still in power and the answer would be no….Bush ignited something here that hopefully will stay afire…..

cmsinaz on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

Who run Barter Town?

Bishop on June 22, 2009 at 8:59 AM

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Wow, mass fraud, attempted coups, and civilian deaths at the hands of joyriding police officers are just nonsense now? Really?

Also, you suck at chess.

Siobhan on June 22, 2009 at 8:59 AM

where has ackmydumbjihad been hideing this whole time, in oboobi’s golf cart maybe, just a thought…..

SHARPTOOTH on June 22, 2009 at 9:00 AM

And you have fallen for the Iranian bait and switch.

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 8:57 AM

You are speaking from the POV of the Iranian gov’t. But would you admit that there will be plenty of people inside and outside of Iran who will see for the first time the illegitimacy of the ruling regime?

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Wow, mass fraud, attempted coups, and civilian deaths at the hands of joyriding police officers are just nonsense now? Really?

Also, you suck at chess.

Siobhan on June 22, 2009 at 8:59 AM

You have been deceived and apparently know nothing of the game chess.

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Iran as we know it is OVER.

What is coming is any one’s guess. I read an article that suggests 3,7 and 40 days after a “Neda” martyrdom are days of trouble. These are official mourning days when things happen.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1906049,00.html

patrick neid on June 22, 2009 at 9:02 AM

I’m more worried that Obama and his administration are examining the Iranian Government’s response to the demonstrators so as to be better able to deal with the American public.

AW1 Tim on June 22, 2009 at 9:03 AM

If this nonsense ends now perhaps we can start considering realistic ways to end Iran’s nuclear ambitions. As it is this rook to Queens five diversion has succeeded beyond Tehran’s wildest expectations in getting the west and especially America to forget about their nuclear weapons program.

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

Please check out the video of Neda screaming in agony and tell me that that is nonsense. If Obama dares to legitamize those disgusting thugs after what they did, then his ego really has no bounds

Illinidiva on June 22, 2009 at 9:03 AM

You are speaking from the POV of the Iranian gov’t. But would you admit that there will be plenty of people inside and outside of Iran who will see for the first time the illegitimacy of the ruling regime?

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:01 AM

What they see doesn’t matter in the slightest. This uprising will end as soon as it is no longer useful to those ruling Iran. Because that is all this is, a useful distraction.

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 9:04 AM

I don’t think that the “elite” is involved in it as a distraction. The students are involved. They just want their voices heard.

Illinidiva on June 22, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Can I finish my waffles and watch some golf this morning?

/BHO

JammieWearingFool on June 22, 2009 at 9:05 AM

Bush ignited something here that hopefully will stay afire…..

cmsinaz on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

The true irony is that GWB did what he did in Iraq because it was the right thing to do and he did it despite the polls or the Democrat Party which almost universally worked to keep Saddam in power. Now, if the new Iraq and the new Iran result in greater geopolitical stablility in that part of the world. The coward in the White House now is going to get all the credit for the job done by real Americans.

highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 9:05 AM

The problem of playing the trump card is you only get to play it once. And if the trump isn’t successful, you are then screwed, big time.

It’ll be interesting to see which side the Iranian army takes.

rbj on June 22, 2009 at 9:05 AM

This conflict in IRAN is proof that our “Founding Fathers” were so wise regarding a 2nd Amendment.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 9:06 AM

What they see doesn’t matter in the slightest. This uprising will end as soon as it is no longer useful to those ruling Iran. Because that is all this is, a useful distraction.

doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 9:04 AM

I am thinking about the longer term. I haven’t a clue what’s going to happen now. If I was forced to guess, I’d say the opposition is too weak, didn’t have enough planning and support, has ill-defined leadership, insufficient coordination, etc. etc, and won’t survive. But it can set the stage for what comes later.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

And Ochimpy already has Americas apology to the Mullahs and the world ready to deliver at a moments notice.

csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

If this nonsense ends now perhaps we can start considering realistic ways to end Iran’s nuclear ambitions.
doriangrey on June 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM

That isn’t going to happen. If this “nonsense” stops, and we deal with Ahmadinejad’s thugs, the best we could expect, after they run out the clock, would be a worthless agreement they woun’t honor. If it continues, by the time it is over, Mousavi might be a bit player on the sidelines. No one can forecast the outcomes on these things

a capella on June 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

Gee, what would happen here in the former United States if the producers of labor and revenue decided to go on general strike? How would Pasha Hussein al-Chicago make us go back to work? Would we see Obamacore and ACORN thugs with billy clubs break down doors to frog march residents back to work?

Doubtful since al-Chicago doesn’t have the cajones to risk direct confrontation with an armed citizenry.

Interesting concept tho’

SeniorD on June 22, 2009 at 8:58 AM

I think the US version would be a subtle “Go Galt,” ramping back one’s productivity to stay under the magic $250,000 income level limit below which Obama said you’d have no new taxes. Yes, I know he’s lying, but his redistributionist philosophy requires a lot of money to redistribute, especially from the entrepreneur and professional classes.

Wethal on June 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

There will be no revolution.

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:08 AM

What they see doesn’t matter in the slightest. This uprising will end as soon as it is no longer useful to those ruling Iran. Because that is all this is, a useful distraction.

I agree that this won’t matter in the slightest because the Mullahs won’t let it. There will be more blood in the streets. There will be a massacre. BUT it’s fairly inspiring to see Iranians trying to change their country. Even they probably know it’s pointless, but it’s admirable to watch them risk their own lives in an endeavor that will end in the morgue.

And the distraction isn’t this. It’s the breathless, breathless reporting of a f*cking ice cream run.

mjk on June 22, 2009 at 9:10 AM

Don’t forget that Obama promised us a civilian security force here in the U.S., too.

BigD on June 22, 2009 at 9:11 AM

And Ochimpy already has Americas apology to the Mullahs and the world ready to deliver at a moments notice.

csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

That I believe completely, like a newspaper with the choice between two headlines re. an election. And he’s had many days to get the spin right. Obama’s speech after the fact will rival his Cairo speech :)

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:11 AM

It is not unusual for the “generals” of these type of throwdowns to begin changing their allegiance.
It is not always easy to fire on your “brothers and sisters”.
What immediately happens, and the aftermath are two separate incidents.
Nothing like coming in, shooting up a mass of people, then going back and realizing you just killed your cousin…

right2bright on June 22, 2009 at 9:11 AM

Cross-posting this from the other Iran thread:

Has anyone else read this from the Asia Times:
‘Color’ revolution fizzles in Iran ?
He says it’s basically over, even if there are more sporadic riots, mostly because everyone from the US to the Chinese and even the Israelis are too scared of the chaos resulting from regime change in Iran to support the protestors. We’re going to leave them twisting in the wind.
Sucks, I hope he’s wrong but what do I know?

Seems to me that a general strike would be a better way to continue than to expose your unarmed supporters to assault weapon-fire. On the other hand, it’s crunch time for the regime if they do….

Fortunata on June 22, 2009 at 9:11 AM

I am thinking about the longer term. I haven’t a clue what’s going to happen now. If I was forced to guess, I’d say the opposition is too weak, didn’t have enough planning and support, has ill-defined leadership, insufficient coordination, etc. etc, and won’t survive. But it can set the stage for what comes later.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

Iran is going to become a repressive state. They’re going to have to keep the Internet shut down and the cellphones shut down and the thugs on the street. If they don’t, then the kids will likely rise up again.

This doesn’t bode well for Iran long-term. They’ve done a good job legitimizing the revolution through “elections” and supposed rights. People have had at least a choice between as Friedman says dark black and light black. Now that they cannot even choose light black, revolution is inevitable.

Illinidiva on June 22, 2009 at 9:12 AM

The protesters need communications first and foremost.

I would not trust the interwebs or phones.

faraway on June 22, 2009 at 9:13 AM

I think the US version would be a subtle “Go Galt,” ramping back one’s productivity to stay under the magic $250,000 income level limit below which Obama said you’d have no new taxes. Yes, I know he’s lying, but his redistributionist philosophy requires a lot of money to redistribute, especially from the entrepreneur and professional classes.

Wethal on June 22, 2009 at 9:07 AM

I hope people will consider coordinated general strikes before they start dismantling the mechanisms of wealth production. I have said several times here before that general strikes would frighten the Dems to their core, and expose the power of the opposition to those Americans who only know what the SRM is saying.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:13 AM

There will be no revolution.

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:08 AM

It has already started…not all revolutions begin and end in the streets…the seeds have been planted.
The revolution has begun…

right2bright on June 22, 2009 at 9:15 AM

Any word on whether Google is helping the Mullahs locate dissenters the way they have in Red China?

TugboatPhil on June 22, 2009 at 9:16 AM

t has already started…not all revolutions begin and end in the streets…the seeds have been planted.
The revolution has begun…

right2bright on June 22, 2009 at 9:15 AM

That’s the point I was trying to make to Dorian.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:16 AM

Iran is going to become a repressive state. They’re going to have to keep the Internet shut down and the cellphones shut down and the thugs on the street. If they don’t, then the kids will likely rise up again.

This doesn’t bode well for Iran long-term.

I was with you until the last sentence. I think it does bode well for Iran long-term. They may become one of the least likely Islamic nations to want fundamentalist Islam–and that change could last several generations. (I don’t have really long-term hope in any Islamic nation.)

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM

right2bright on June 22, 2009 at 9:15 AM

Nah — it won’t make it in Iran. They have no weapons — just voices and stones. I hate to be a killjoy, but that isn’t enough to combat the SAVAK and security forces and Republican Guard.

Rafsanjani is being intimidated.

I don’t see this revolution going anywhere.

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:19 AM

I was with you until the last sentence. I think it does bode well for Iran long-term. They may become one of the least likely Islamic nations to want fundamentalist Islam–and that change could last several generations. (I don’t have really long-term hope in any Islamic nation.)

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM

I meant for the regime… For the Iranian people, it is a good thing.

Illinidiva on June 22, 2009 at 9:20 AM

Seems to me that a general strike would be a better way to continue than to expose your unarmed supporters to assault weapon-fire

ditto. But there’s no organized opposition back in Paris coordinating these movements, as was the case with the Ayatollah Khomeini vs. the Shah.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:20 AM

There will be no revolution.

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:08 AM

Probably not. But, I do not think the young people in Iran will quietly retreat into the night. This is the first of many steps in destabilizing the mullahs. The violence and deaths are vivid in our minds. I doubt that those closest to the situation would be less affected.

HoustonRight on June 22, 2009 at 9:20 AM

This conflict in IRAN is proof that our “Founding Fathers” were so wise regarding a 2nd Amendment.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 9:06 AM

So true. If the Iranians had something better than rocks to fight back with, we’d be looking at a whole different ballgame.

AZCoyote on June 22, 2009 at 9:20 AM

Those of you who think that an Israeli strike would send the Iranian people scurrying back to the Mullahs have fallen for a false narrative. The Iranian people really don’t give a damn about the Palestinians and they are not ill disposed towards Jews and Israel. When you live in a dictatorship you go out and shout death to Israel because the government mobilizes the populace and you’d better shout it like you mean it.

Now with reports of Hamas and Hezbollah thugs working with the security forces whether true or not, ordinary Iranians are going to be even less enamored with the Palestinians. If the Israelis were to strike at leadership and nuclear targets the people would cheer them on. This isn’t like Serbia in 1999 where the people temporarily rallied to the regime over the issue of Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo. The regime is the enemy and Israel would not be attacking Iranian sovereignty, they would be decapitating the hated regime. People forget that historically Persian has been very well disposed toward the Jews. The last thirty years have been an aberration.

jerryofva on June 22, 2009 at 9:21 AM

I can’t imagine our government ordering our military to fight against American citizens. (Ruby Ridge, Waco notwithstanding). what an awful thing to use your military for. The military is supposed to PROTECT the country.

ThackerAgency on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

dorian: i don’t think this “revolution” in Iran has taken the focus off Iran’s nukes, but rather brought it in sharper focus. but well, i try to keep up with world events & don’t watch MSM, so what do i know about the avg. American mentality?

kelley in virginia on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

ThackerAgency on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

I’ve contemplated that before

Would our guys really act against us if the government ordered them to?

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

The coward in the White House now is going to get all the credit for the job done by real Americans.

highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 9:05 AM

that’s what gets me so bloody upset!!

cmsinaz on June 22, 2009 at 9:24 AM

My guess is that this is the end of the protests. There won’t be a general strike. They’ll just fade quietly into the night. The protestors lacked any cohesive leadership, and the Mullahs were smart to basically lock down Mousavi very early in the protest to avoid him serving as leadership for his own movement.

This is what happens when free countries do not help those who seek freedom. If we had CIA folks on the ground helping out and preparing an opposition for this kind of moment, it may have turned out differently. But we don’t, and it didn’t.

Outlander on June 22, 2009 at 9:24 AM

I’m wondering where Neda’s father is right about now. If that were my daughter who was murdered, I’d be on a rooftop with a scoped rifle, picking off Basiji one by one.

Bishop on June 22, 2009 at 9:24 AM

Who run Barter Town?

“Bust a deal…face the wheel…”

SDPlissken on June 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM

This uprising is a step toward modernity from the youth. I say bravo, welcome aboard. The invertebrate eunuch in the white house will do nothing but President Bush has been vindicated.

doctormom on June 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM

jerryofva on June 22, 2009 at 9:21 AM

I would love to believe that what you said was accurate. But I believe that Israel probably has the best intelligence on Iran of any country. So if what you say is true, they would probably know it. And if Israel doesn’t act, it may be because they believe it would backfire badly.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM

if everyone in the world hates the israelis anyway, wouldnt’this be a good time for them to hit Iran? how could world opinion against israel get worse (except by physical assault to their country?)

kelley in virginia on June 22, 2009 at 9:26 AM

the invertebrate eunuch in the white house…

ouch.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:26 AM

doctormom on June 22, 2009 at 9:25 AM

not if the state run media has anything to say about it…

cmsinaz on June 22, 2009 at 9:26 AM

Street protests in Iran are important but are themselves not enough to force change. The supreme leader will not be swayed because he considers himself accountable to God, not to the people. Indeed, even the Islamic Republic’s clerical establishment is irrelevant in this calculus. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s invocation of folk religion — his appeals to the messianic Hidden Imam, for example — is a way to bypass senior religious figures who, according to Shiite theology, will be among the greatest obstacles to the Hidden Imam’s return. Nor does the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pay too much heed to his fellow clerics in Qom. They have always refused to bestow on Khamenei a level of religious legitimacy to match his ambition. Today, the majority of Iran’s grand ayatollahs oppose the concept of theological rule. Not by coincidence, the majority are now in prison or under house arrest.

Khamenei can weather the public’s disdain so long as the Revolutionary Guard serves as his Praetorian Guard. Khomeini, the Islamic Republic’s founder, formed the Revolutionary Guard to defend his revolutionary vision. It is more powerful than the army and answers only to the supreme leader. That the Islamic Republic has lost legitimacy in the eyes of the Iranian public is now evident to the outside world, but it is not news to the regime. In September 2007, Mohammad Ali Jafari, the new Revolutionary Guard chief, reconfigured the force into 31 units — one for each province and two for Tehran — on the theory that a velvet revolution posed a greater threat to regime security than any external enemy. Guardsmen are not stationed in their home cities so that they do not hesitate to fire on crowds that might include family and friends.

In the public mind, the Islamic revolution 30 years ago looms large. The regime is not aloof to this. It understands the shah’s mistakes and is determined not to repeat them. Next month marks the 10th anniversary of the student uprising, which erupted after the security forces attacked a student dormitory. Their brutality shocked the Iranian public, and demonstrations spread throughout the country. For a few days, regime survival was also subject to speculation.

In the aftermath of the protests, the Chinese government supplied security consultants to Tehran. Rather than bash heads and risk protests and endless cycles of mourning, Iranian security services began photographing demonstrations, after which they would arrest participants over the course of a month when they were alone and could not spark mob reaction. With the assistance of European businessmen, the Iranian government upgraded its surveillance of communication (and the Internet).

Ultimately, the theocracy will fall only if servicemen in the Revolutionary Guard switch sides. There will be compromise. The end will come only over Khamenei’s dead body. Certainly, Iran today is a tinderbox. The question is whether the regime is better at putting out fires than demonstrators are at starting them.

Insight from Michael Rubin at the Corner. (emphasis added)

Wethal on June 22, 2009 at 9:26 AM

I’ve contemplated that before. Would our guys really act against us if the government ordered them to?
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

It depends. FBI torched Waco and shot the pregnant woman at Ruby Ridge and kidnapped Elian Gonzales at gunpoint because they were conditioned to believe they were a bunch of fruitcakes who deserved whatever they got. (Which was true in the case of David Koresh, certainly, but I’m not so sure I would take as harsh a line with his brainwashed followers).

I think the Army would turn on American citizens if the government convinced them that those citizens were “evil.” That’s part of why conservatives need to be extremely aggressive in combatting things like the DHS right-wing extremist report and the MSM’s efforts to say Bill O’Reilly is responsible for the assassination of George Tiller.

Outlander on June 22, 2009 at 9:27 AM

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:19 AM

Hey BB don’t mean to quibble with your post but the Savak was the Shah’s secret police. The Ministry of Intelligence and National Security is called the VEVAK now.

elduende on June 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

I’ve contemplated that before

Would our guys really act against us if the government ordered them to?

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

being ex military i’d have to say no, ecspecially under oboobi….

SHARPTOOTH on June 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

Some things are true whether the MSM say them or not.

doctormom on June 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

lduende on June 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

Yea — I know — I was hoping my mistake would skirt by :X

lol

early — sorry

but i hope you know what i mean

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

some readers got that scrupulous eye!

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:29 AM

oboobi….

SHARPTOOTH on June 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

LOL-love it

cmsinaz on June 22, 2009 at 9:29 AM

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:29 AM

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:28 AM

LOL! ;-)

elduende on June 22, 2009 at 9:30 AM

The regime is the enemy and Israel would not be attacking Iranian sovereignty, they would be decapitating the hated regime. People forget that historically Persian has been very well disposed toward the Jews. The last thirty years have been an aberration.

jerryofva on June 22, 2009 at 9:21 AM

First, a preemptive strike at Iran would be attacking Iranian sovereignty. Secondly, you seem to think that other Muslim nations would just sit by and let Israel get away with such an attack without retaliation.

highhopes on June 22, 2009 at 9:30 AM

This conflict in IRAN is proof that our “Founding Fathers” were so wise regarding a 2nd Amendment.
Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 9:06 AM

You’re DAMN right. If you wonder why Democrats want to take away our guns, look no farther than your favorite oppressive regime–all of them have extremely strict gun control laws, and leverage them as appropriate to preserve their strangehold on power.

Outlander on June 22, 2009 at 9:31 AM

An Israeli strike would not go well

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Iran is going to become a repressive state. They’re going to have to keep the Internet shut down and the cellphones shut down and the thugs on the street. If they don’t, then the kids will likely rise up again.

This doesn’t bode well for Iran long-term. They’ve done a good job legitimizing the revolution through “elections” and supposed rights. People have had at least a choice between as Friedman says dark black and light black. Now that they cannot even choose light black, revolution is inevitable.

Illinidiva on June 22, 2009 at 9:12 AM

What crack are you smoking?

Become a repressive state?

Supposed Rights?

Do you even know anyone who lives in that country?

The people have been oppressed for the past 30 years.

More political executions and “deaths” per year than the entire reign of the shah.

Womens rights out the window…beating for wearing too much makeup or showing too much hair.

Public Hanging of suspected homosexual youth.

Rights?

GOing to become a repressive state?

Seriously, either you are a complete moron or an just a blubbering idiot.

BillaryMcBush on June 22, 2009 at 9:32 AM

It’s a shame it’s over now. I know Obama did his absolute best to help the Iranian people along their journey to freedom. It’s clear now that they just didn’t want it enough. Obama should be praised for his decisive actions and smart power.

Thunderstorm129 on June 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Wethal on June 22, 2009 at 9:26 AM

Tks. good stuff from Rubin. I don’t know why we haven’t heard all this about ayatollahs arrested, and the imposition of military rule in place of theocratic rule before these protests began, if its been going on so long. It seems like we are woefully ignorant about Iran.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:35 AM

BillaryMcBush on June 22, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Take it easy, guy.

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:35 AM

It’s a shame it’s over now. I know Obama did his absolute best to help the Iranian people along their journey to freedom. It’s clear now that they just didn’t want it enough. Obama should be praised for his decisive actions and smart power.

Thunderstorm129 on June 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Who gets to say it? Biden?

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:36 AM

Thunderstorm129 on June 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM

are you kidding, or what?

SHARPTOOTH on June 22, 2009 at 9:38 AM

We fixed an election
Like we always do
How were we to know
That the people would see through

Now I’m hiding here in Tehran
I’m a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The sh!t has hit the fan

—Mahmoud Ahmedinjad (sp)

Percy_Peabody on June 22, 2009 at 9:38 AM

Thunderstorm129 on June 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM

lol im gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you sarced

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:38 AM

The Revolutionary Guard are a bunch of murdering thugs and I hope the people out there give these bastards the fight of their lives.

My question is where is the wimp the MSM calls “Our President” in the midst of all of this? Buying more ice cream?

pilamaye on June 22, 2009 at 9:39 AM

Thunderstorm129 on June 22, 2009 at 9:33 AM

Obarfa will make Hillary say it, so he can re-play it during his re-election campaign.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:39 AM

Ed I think your analysis and the questions you pose are right on.

What disturbs me the most is that our president reached the conclusion early on that the protesters would be crushed and he based his actions on what he felt was the inevitable outcome, without giving a second thought to what the people of Iran will now suffer, and suffer they will. The mullahs do not take kindly to challenges to their power.

Barack is also determined to engage in ‘conversations’ with the ruling party, which is now very apparent is not Ahmadinejad, but rather the Ayatollahs. The suppression, repression and revenge will take place out of sight of our media and 5 or 10 years from now somebody will start rolling up the numbers and wonder how it is that 100 of thousands people could be slaughtered, while we engage in toothless resolutions and dialogue.

This is where I have my biggest disagreement with Obama. Even knowing what the likely conclusion would be I would have thrown my support behind the protestors and then once the protests were put down continue to highlight the situation making it harder to ‘disappear’ these people.
I like to draw the analogy to the battle at the Alamo. Everybody knew how that would end, and the goal was simply to buy time for the rest of the forces to muster to deal with the Mexican Army. What have these protestors bought? They are being left on their own and may now find themselves in a worse condition then when they started.

I feel for the everyday Iranian and will be curious to see if a mass flight to maybe Iraq starts taking place.

And as the Arab saying goes, a dog barks and the caravan continues on it’s way.

Just A Grunt on June 22, 2009 at 9:39 AM

BillaryMcBush on June 22, 2009 at 9:32 AM

Places like Egypt or North Korea don’t even pretend to have fair elections… They have elections where the President for Life manages to get 99.9% of the vote. Although Iran isn’t a democracy, it pretends to be one. Friedman has an interesting column which stated that people in Iran generally have a choice between dark black and light black. They voted for the light black candidate, Khatami, twice in the late nineties and voted for the light black candidate fairly decisively this time. The mullahs allowed people to vote for the light black candidate as a safety valve to keep the population in check. People could express their dissatisfaction with the gov’t by voting for a slightly more moderate candidate. The mullahs turned off the light black safety valve by throwing the recent election to Dinner Jacket in a fairly obvious way. People are outraged because the one legit. outlet they had to protest (voting for the light black candidate) was taking away from them.

Illinidiva on June 22, 2009 at 9:40 AM

And as the Arab saying goes, a dog barks and the caravan continues on it’s way.

Just A Grunt on June 22, 2009 at 9:39 AM

Great phrase.

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:40 AM

lol im gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you sarced

blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 9:38 AM

LOL myself. Because it doesn’t matter whether he/she/it means it. Nobody believes it :) Obarfa is cruising towards having as much legitimacy as the other ayatollahs.

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:41 AM

Barack is also determined to engage in ‘conversations’ with the ruling party, which is now very apparent is not Ahmadinejad, but rather the Ayatollahs.

I thought the opposite was apparent. That the ayatollahs and their theocracy are exposed as a sham, and that the Rev. Guard and Andy run the place in connivance with one dude only, Khamenei, as a military dictatorship?

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:45 AM

At 6:13 Police, Bassij, Hezbollah attacking People at Hafte Tir.Protester throwing stones and set fire,tea gas used #iranElection #neda

http://twitter.com/IR_REVOLUTIONAR

elduende on June 22, 2009 at 9:51 AM

Quietly into the night..heh

HoustonRight on June 22, 2009 at 9:53 AM

highhopes:

Yes the Sunni world would sit around a watch the Israelis taking out the Iranian leadership and nuclear program. They would do more then sit around and watch, they would cheer. I suspect that the Saudis, Egyptians and Jordanians have already expressed support for such a strike through covert channels. The Mullahs seek to overthrow Sunni domination. They are far more dangerous to Sunni rule then Israel.

Jiangxi dad: Just because Israel doesn’t strike doesn’t mean they believe that it would be counterproductive. All it means is that they don’t have an operational plan to do it.

The past week has been a Mideast narrative breaker, i.e., Israel is the source of instability and cause of Islamic terrorism. Middle East violence will not end until regional powers stop sponsoring Palestinian rejectionism. The Palestinians will not give up until they lose all financial support from radical governments. The have lost Egypt in 1979, Iraq in 2003 and Iran remains their last important sponsor. If the Islamic Dictatorship goes down then Hamas and Hezbollah die with it. Syria does not have the money to support Palestinian terror.

Obama is a prisoner of the current narrative. His failure to speak out as have the leaders of France, Germany, Canada, and the UK is a sign that he does not want to see this narrative replaced.

jerryofva on June 22, 2009 at 9:53 AM

thought the opposite was apparent. That the ayatollahs and their theocracy are exposed as a sham, and that the Rev. Guard and Andy run the place in connivance with one dude only, Khamenei, as a military dictatorship?

JiangxiDad on June 22, 2009 at 9:45 AM

Well for right now it is the ayatollahs who still issue the orders for when the Revolutionary Guard are deployed, but that could very well change. The nightmare scenario is that somehow Ahmadinejaid manages to get the Rev Guard to become loyal to him and then you will have another Saddam regime. Saddam was able to play on the Sunni/Shiite divide to keep control. I wonder what whoever gets the support of the Revolutionary Guards will use as incentive? The revoluntary Guards could very well be in the cat bird seat, but a quick purge would solve that problem.

Just A Grunt on June 22, 2009 at 9:55 AM

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