A proper obituary: Neda’s relatives remember her to the LA Times
posted at 4:55 pm on June 22, 2009 by Allahpundit
“She was a person full of joy,” said her music teacher and close friend Hamid Panahi, who was among the mourners at her family home on Sunday, awaiting word of her burial. “She was a beam of light. I’m so sorry. I was so hopeful for this woman.”…
The second of three children, she studied Islamic philosophy at a branch of Tehran’s Azad University, until deciding to pursue a career in the tourism industry. She took private classes to become a tour guide, including Turkish language courses, friends said, hoping to some day lead groups of Iranians on trips abroad.
Travel was her passion, and with her friends she saved up enough money for package tours to Dubai, Turkey and Thailand. Two months ago, on a trip to Turkey, she relaxed along the beaches of Antalya, on the Mediterranean coast.
She loved music, especially Persian pop, and was taking piano classes, according to Panahi, who is in his 50s, and other friends. She was also an accomplished singer, they said.
But she was never an activist, they added, and she began attending the mass protests only because of a personal sense of outrage over the election results.
Follow the link for her last words and a description of the scene in the Agha-Soltan family home after the murder. Her friend claims she warned her not to go to the protests, to which Neda allegedly responded, “Don’t worry. It’s just one bullet and its over.”
It’s not over, though. Take it away, Maverick.
Blowback
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Dear Senator McCain, thank you for that moving statement.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Perhaps you and Comrade Innocent should consider this…
redwhiteblue on June 22, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Fool, by standing back it will unfold in such a manner that the protesters are eventually suppressed. Not standing back and actually doing something might change the outcome to something more positive. SO by making your argument that the best course is to do nothing you are preordaining the outcome.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Nice post Texas gal
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM
I’m not gonna sit here all day and defend my position, but it’s pretty laughable to call those who disagree with you “trolls.” Open your mind a little, maybe Schlussel and those who say both sides are extremists may have a point. Probably not though, your mind is made up.
Not cut and dry folks, all I’m saying.
jjraines on June 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM
No Marxist country has practiced, let alone worshipped, democracy. You are suffering from terminological inexactitude.
theCork on June 22, 2009 at 6:32 PM
I won’t cross post from the other thread but.
All your line of reasoning is intended to accomplish is to make the current inaction by the O seem to be the better choice.
“Why he is so sophisticated that he understands the finer points so well that he can’t really do anything”
Bull crap he is a fool.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Yeah, and we all knew that quite some time ago. You pretending that you’ve just explained to us that 1+1 really does equal 2 is a farce.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 6:33 PM
You can disagree
it’s when people are jerks that, IMO, makes then trollish
or when they try to provoke
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Not really. It could have done without the pointlessly profane name calling.
Grayson on June 22, 2009 at 6:37 PM
That’s generally when I call someone a troll, only if it’s obvious their posts are meant only to inflame. Plus, trolls generally don’t stick around.
I’m sure the word gets thrown around too often here when what people really mean is “obnoxious” or something similar.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 6:37 PM
I’m not intending anything, just posting my thoughts (which I guess have no place here; asking questions be damned). I agree that the situation now may be the best we’ll ever get to get something done, and maybe we should. But what exactly do you want Obama to do? Write a strongly worded letter? I didn’t know the POTUS had so much power as to decide the fate of Iran.
Obviously you don’t, because I’ve been jumped on for arguing both sides are extremists, and the Iranian people are less than noble and don’t necessarily warrant our full support.
jjraines on June 22, 2009 at 6:40 PM
No you are not. People post thoughts that support what they think. The eventual goal you are after is clear to me.
And yes a strong worded letter supporting the demonstrators would be a good start. Doing nothing, which is the current track, is not a policy.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Maybe it’s because you keep pretending that you support them. Which is it? Do you support them and their attempts at peaceful protest, or do you think they don’t deserve our support?
You really can’t have it both ways.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 6:45 PM
Why on earth do you support theocrats that hang gays from light poles like Christmas decorations? That beat women for accidentally flashing an ankle? That threaten the extermination of Jews? Yeah, Mousavi’s no better, but the revolution isn’t completely about him, is it?
If the protesters win, the status quo will change. Perhaps real democracy can come about, it’s worth a chance. Otherwise the evil bastards in charge now will wipe out Israel and eventually nuke some US cities through terrorist proxies.
Only if the tyrants are overthrown will there be no more Neda’s. SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS!
theCork on June 22, 2009 at 6:46 PM
No Marxist country, but Marxist ideologues and intellectuals. No inexactitude there. Look at American liberals, for instance. And please, no smugness and sarcasm.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 6:47 PM
I posted this earlier on this thread, but I had to do it again, it’s a very powerful and moving video compliation of the weeks events in Iran done to the Pat Benatar song Invincible and dedicated to Neda.
As for jjraines and innocent, all I an say is an Iran not under the thumb of an autocratic, thugish, brutal, and draconian religious ideology of its Mullahs is better for th people of Iran and the rest of the world. Therefore anything that can bring about the fall of the Mullahs (even if it’s Sharia lite) is better than full strength Sharia.
I hope the Iranian people will use the memory of Neda as their rallying cry, their beacon of hope and strength in their pursuit of freedom, liberty, and justice!
Liberty or Death on June 22, 2009 at 6:48 PM
I like what he said. I like how he said it.
Mr. Obama should take a lesson or two from him.
Miss Molly on June 22, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Iranian protesters are not America’s concern. We should not involve ourselves with the internal politics of other countries. Even practically speaking, no one here has the foresight to see which course will turn out best. America should be disengaged from this conflict as well as all other Middle Eastern conflicts. All of this is just liberal internationalism disguised as conservatism.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 6:50 PM
As opposed to your posts here.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 6:51 PM
rEVOLution?
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 6:52 PM
LOL omg…today’s the first time I’ve ever been accused of being a troll. I posted an article that supports some of what I think, written by Debbie Schlussel, someone who knows more on the subject than I do. If you actually read the article it speaks for itself.
I can’t believe how hostile you guys are for just a slightly alternate viewpoint, sheesh.
But isn’t that all I’ve been saying, that it isn’t black and white, and it is possible to see it both ways? I, like you, want the mullahcracy overthrown, sympathize with the oppressed people — just realize that they aren’t my friends, mostly still agree with islamofascist ideology, and are not fighting for “liberty and democracy.” If they end up doing so, and establish a more American and Israel-friendly, less tyranical state, GREAT.
I just won’t pretend like that’s what’s happening now.
jjraines on June 22, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Hey it’s Ron Paul – welcome.
This country was founded because people chose self determination over an arbitrarily enforced rule. Even since the founding of this country we have stood for certain ideals. When other people rise up so that their voice is heard we stand by them.
Look up “Shining City on the Hill” and “Ronald Reagan”. Maybe then you will see that standing for values is a true conservative principle.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 6:55 PM
Looks more to me like you’re flogging Schlussel’s. Such “ideas” as they are.
We can be forgiven for missing this notwithstanding a close reading of your first comment here.
What representations have you heard expressed here regarding what the protesters are fighting for, exactly? The protesters are not their government. If we were talking about the assassination of a candidate here, the terms of reference might be different. But we’re talking about the brutal murder of a young woman now established not to have been even particularly political. You might also have noticed the choices available to the Iranian people are rather limited.
And I called you a troll for posting a lengthy excerpt in a condescending and insulting manner, in the service of a logically degenerate argument. Don’t burden the rest of us with your faulty framing of the issues.
DrSteve on June 22, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Thanks.
You mean like this:
jjraines: “ignored by the useful idiots”
I’m not an idiot and I don’t need a racist bigot (opps sorry, that name calling just slipped out) calling me a useful idiot because I’m not a racist bigot.. (opps, did it again)
Texas Gal on June 22, 2009 at 6:58 PM
I’m not either. Though I do believe that if that will ever happen, it has to happen with a small step, which is how I’m viewing this, as one gigantic small step. The people are in the streets because they don’t trust their government.
It’s possible more will follow if they’re successful, which can only happen if the rest of the world takes notice of what they’re doing.
But if they fail, then we’re back where we started.
I see no reason why people can’t support the people with their eyes wide open about the man they voted for.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Actually I never called you a troll – I just pointed out that if you feel it’s important enough to post something here it is probably because it supports your viewpoint.
I stand up for people who fight for their self determination just as we did over 200 years ago. I don’t qualify my support to only support them if they are planning to institute a US style democracy.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Where is Russel Kirk when you need him?
It is not the business of America to decide what the political regimes of other countries are. I do not care if Iran has an autocratic regime or a direct democracy or both or neither. It is liberal do-gooders who think that America should intrude in other countries in order to impose specific and arbitrary types of government.
Why should I even worship democracy? Everyone here talks of freedom and liberty, but what about the evils that are bread within America? Unrestrained liberal ideology has given us feminism, abortion, gay marriage, bureaucratic despotism, and Obama. It has produced an amoral people who are concerned with money and material satisfaction over all else.
I have not been smug or sarcastic, either. I am not insulting any of you and I will not. I love Hot Air, but this is not conservatism. That is all I am arguing.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Here it is innocnt smith
If it were say
Sweden
I’d agree with you
however
the Iranian regime has contributed to the deaths of OUR boys.
And is one of BIGGEST international exporters of Islamic terrorism.
Their internal politics matters to us. If it strengthens or weakens.
It matters
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Who said we were deciding anything?
Are we not allowed to support people struggling for representative democracy?
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM
Fair enough but “useful idiot” isn’t really profane.
Grayson on June 22, 2009 at 7:02 PM
What a terrible loss this is for her friends and family. The world truly has lost a beam of light in the world.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 7:02 PM
I understand the point you are making, and I share your concern that some of us in the West may be misapprehending the mindset of the protestors. Western Civilization, particularly Americans, finds it difficult to imagine that not everyone shares our ideal that everyone should be free. I believe we all want freedom for ourselves, but not everyone wants it for others.
The problem is, we can’t really know what the protestors ultimately want as their form of government until it comes to pass. I have difficulty imagining that they want democracy (I don’t want democracy–we are not a democracy, thank Heaven), but what do the Iranians envision for themselves? Do they look to Mousavi because of the choices they had, he seemed the least bad? I don’t know. I do suspect, though, that many people support them with the idea that Iran couldn’t be much worse, and could be a far sight better.
DrMagnolias on June 22, 2009 at 7:04 PM
Just wait until Obama yougoogalizes her. He can deliver a yougoogaly like no one else. What? You think just because he’s pretty he’s stupid?
29Victor on June 22, 2009 at 7:04 PM
I partially disagree. Conservatism is about values and standing up for those values. Freedom through self determination is one of those values. I think we have a higher calling to be both the example for and supporter of any country that wants to move into a style of government that lets its people choose its leaders openly and freely.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 7:04 PM
Pathetic isn’t an insult? Comparing us to Marxist is what, a compliment? What about this idea that we’re narcissistic because we actually care about people we may never meet? Is that supposed to be a badge of honor?
And considering most of us supported the Iraq War, and Reagan told them to “tear down that wall,” I’m not sure where you’re getting this idea that it’s against conservatism to intervene.
It’s against libertarianism, but they’re not exactly the same.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:05 PM
I agree with blatantblue that inasmuch as our soldiers are harmed by Iran we should be interested in their actions. As long as our men are in the Middle East I would rather us annihilate our enemies before we let a single American’s life be jeopardized. With that said, I also think that our long term goal should be complete disengagement from Middle Eastern politics, meaning that we are no longer interested parties in the internal affairs of these countries. Of course that would entail the removal of our military from the region, something I support while many other obviously do not.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Nice idea, but where are you going to get the oil from?
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 7:06 PM
See now that is a good post.
Grayson on June 22, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Not sure if you’re aware, but the internal activities of Iran concern the future of one of our closest allies.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 7:07 PM
I called nobody pathetic. I do think that memorializing a woman in the service of an ideology is pathetic and wrong, but I did not call anyone that. My use of the word Marxist was to reiterate my main point that supporting democratic revolutions, or any revolutions, in other countries is not part of the conservative tradition. I am not seeking to personally attack anyone, and to say that I am is not true,
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:08 PM
And I think it’s naive to think that just because we ignore them they’ll return the favor.
Also, there’s Israel, an ally, to consider.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:08 PM
What a nice thing to say. :)
DrMagnolias on June 22, 2009 at 7:08 PM
InnocEnt smith
I shouldn’t have told you to suck a fat one twice
I’m cranky today and I have a habit of putting my foot in my mouthh
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 7:09 PM
You really believe this?
“Please, everybody get over yourselves”
“Everyone here sounds like they are part of some AIDS or breast cancer campaign where we all congratulate ourselves over how caring we are.”
“Leave it to modern conservatives to worship liberal democracy louder than any Marxist ever could.”
You really see no reason why anyone would take offense at what you’ve written?
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Madisonconservative, I am guessing that you mean Israel, a country that seems more than capable of managing its own affairs. If Israel feels threatened by Iran then perhaps they will destroy the country. I do not particularly care just as long as America is not involved.
Dpierson, I did not say that we should be prevented form commercial exchange with other countries. I think there is a distinction between that and what is going on now.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:11 PM
Huh? Oh right, reading back you were the one that called me a “sanctimonious arrogant little twat” and “pathetic child,” all because I take issue with your ignorant claim that they are heroically fighting for “FREEDOM, LIBERTY, and DEMOCRACY.” Yeah, I’m the incendiary, hostile, sanctimonious one. Hmmmmm, alternate reality you live in…
I just thought it was interesting and note-worthy. It may not be the case here, but I think most who are full-fledged “We are all Iranian today” types don’t know the background and the complicated dynamics surrounding this conflict. They think it’s the theocratic thugs versus the poor, freedom fighting, freedom loving Iranian citizens. Classic good vs. evil (which it is not).
And because, as I said before, am no expert, thought Debbie’s article articulated some of my thoughts well. No where, though, have I name-called or accused anyone of anything, unlike some of you. Don’t confuse me with this other guy either.
jjraines on June 22, 2009 at 7:13 PM
None of those sentences are personal, and my point is still valid. I do think that it a pathetic attempt at self-admiration to feign sorrow for a girl nobody knows. If you take offense at that then you are too thin skinned.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:13 PM
You don’t care if a country is destroyed?
Well, that’s all you needed to say.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 7:13 PM
Hot Air, meet narcissism’s latest child since The Wall got banned for the third time.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 7:14 PM
I think feeling sorrow is a very basic human condition and I feel sorry for you that you cannot feel it
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 7:16 PM
How old are you jj? I ask because I believe you to be too young to remember that prior to the 1979 Iranian revolution Iranian’s (more precisely Persians) were the most “westernized” Middle Eastern nation and many of their youth (which is currently a strong majority in Iran) like and desire the same freedoms we have here and want to partake in, such as our pop culture (although I don’t understand why sometimes) and things they are not allowed to enjoy now.
My point is it seems the Iranian youth are getting weary of the draconian Sharia lifestyle they are being forced to live under and it is my belief if this does evolve into a full on revolution they (the Iranian youth) wouldn’t wouldn’t replace full strength Sharia with moderate or Sharia lite, I think they will become a free and secular government.
Just MHO.
Liberty or Death on June 22, 2009 at 7:16 PM
And you have no self awareness. At least we understand each other.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:17 PM
I understand your views about Neda’s murder and the reactions of people here to her murder, but I haven’t read anything from you regarding this:
State Dep’t: Iranian diplomats still welcome to celebrate July 4th with U.S.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 7:18 PM
I understand that but I still support other people’s struggle for self determination. I don’t care if they self-determine there way to another version of the Islamic State but at least let the people decide.
This struggle is actually more about age than anything else. 2/3 or Iran is under 30 and I am pretty sure that they are tired of being policed by the over 70s crowd.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM
I get what you’re saying, but most of us are outraged at the atrocities being perpetrated against these protesters and not just Neda. Right or wrong, crass or respectful, she has simply become the face of the struggle. As Allah has said, she represents the contrast between the oppressive dark ages regime and the hope of a new generation. I wonder if she would want to be the face of this considering she was not an activist.
But her loss is a very personal loss to many and for those of us who did not know her, we are saddened at the murder of this woman simply because she was a part of humanity.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Israel might not have the luxury pretty soon of being so morally upstanding.
Grayson on June 22, 2009 at 7:19 PM
I’m not saying I wouldn’t see the destruction of Iran as preferable to the destruction of Israel.
However, the destruction of either would be horrible.
Apparently, some don’t care.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Agreed.
Grayson on June 22, 2009 at 7:23 PM
I might care remotely or abstractedly whether a country that I have no connection to is destroyed, but the point is that I care infinitely more for my own country than I ever could Iran, even if it was invaded by Israel. I do not think that is extreme, just patriotism.
Esthier, you have been nothing but disrespectful and nasty to me. I am merely trying to talk with other people who are interested in the same things as I am, even though I heartily disagree. I have not said anything to you that was disrespectful and I would ask that you stop hurling shallow insults at me. I have self awareness and I do not understand you because you have had nothing meaningful to say. I find it disheartening that you are handling my simple disagreements to poorly.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:28 PM
This country has always aligned itself using the philosophy that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. And then years later when that alliance has lost it’s usefulness, we sever ties.
Ochimpy should be aligning us with the protesters for the time being. It may be the best chance at expelling the hard line mullahs in favor of some more moderate ones. As it is, Ochimpy is doing nothing except inviting the hard liners to a 4th of July celebration. He thinks that they are only hard liners because they haven’t been shown the light by his majesty. They are hard liners because they are steeped in the tradition of oppression. Just as Ochimpy is steeped in his traditions of racism and other liberal lunacy. The difference between Ochimpy and conservatives is that we know Ochimpy will never change and don’t presume to have the power to convince him to do so. He is to be opposed at every idiotic Marxist turn he makes until we can eject him from office and render his influence moot.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 7:29 PM
He’s a RINO.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 7:32 PM
Actually Obama generally sounds just like many on this site and others. In his Cairo speech he too extolled democracy as if it was some savior of man. I do appreciate that you see it as realpolitik, meaning that our interests should come first. I agree with you generally. I just think that that is not what the popular sentiment currently is. People do not want us to support one Iranian faction over another for shrewd purposes, they want it because they are liberal at heart.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:33 PM
I call ‘em like I see ‘em.
BTW this post by Allah is about a young woman who was murdered in the street of her own country on the order of her government. We all watched as her life’s blood drained from her body onto the street and her soul looked at us as she died. jjraines had already posted his cut and paste of Debbie’s usual I-know-better-than-you-do hateful speech on another thread and got no response. So it was a deliberate act to cross post on this thread about Neda. A profane gesture on jjraines part. Totally disrespectful, not to mention the content of the posting to this thread.
Texas Gal on June 22, 2009 at 7:33 PM
That you don’t realize you have, is why I said you are not self aware. I don’t even mean that as an insult but just as a truthful statement indicating that you very obviously do not understand how you are perceived.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:34 PM
Agreed. And I like your description of Debbie’s post. Why does she always come across that way?
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM
Yes, I think you are correct. The ’79 revolution was orchestrated from Paris by Khomeni who managed to create a Jim Jones type movement ready to topple the Shah when Carter jerked the rug out from under him. One of the reasons the fundies hated the Shah so much was he was trying to modernize Iran and bring in some western values and culture. When the crazies took over, Iran was fairly progressive(in the cultural sense), and although the Shah had his Savak and there was much mistreatment by our standards, the population had advanced much more than other countries in the region. I agree that given the opportunity, the younger generation will become a free and moderately secular government, if allowed to do so. Mousavi is simply a means to an end, but it will take time, and the nuclear issue must be adresed first.
That was very well said.
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM
Esthier, you are a joke. That is an insult. You sit at a computer trying to convince me that your feelings are hurt. Get over it. Why is it that you are the only person who took what I said personally? It is obvious that I am being sincere and honest and that you are a waste of time. Please stop addressing me.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Can you cite a particular example of her nastiness to you? I read this entire thread twice, and I don’t see it.
Disturb the Universe on June 22, 2009 at 7:39 PM
Neda Agha-Soltan
The Voice of Iran.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 7:39 PM
The posting of that girl’s death was the height of inappropriate and trivializing. No one’s death should be broadcast for the sentimental consumption of others. I would not want my daughter’s brutal murder to be either shown on monitors in peoples’ living rooms or used as propaganda. This is the height of misguided compassion.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:42 PM
That is not a trollish comment. And even though I am in complete disagreement with you, I understand how you reach the conclusion.
I don’t think these protesters are a monolithic group. I think there are those who are as extreme as dinner jacket and see this as their way to get into power. I also think that there are those who see this as a way to make a huge step toward democracy. I think Ochimpy should err on the side of hoping that democracy will become stronger. Even if I am wrong and the new thugs take over, Ochimpy is no worse off. He’s willing to deal with dinner jacket, so the new guy wont be any worse. It’s a wash. But with my suggestion, Iranians who seek democracy have a chance of being supported by us and we have the chance of being what we are: that shining city on the hill.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 7:44 PM
Why don’t you give it up? People have pretty much taken their measure of you by now.
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 7:45 PM
You address me then ask I not address you? Thanks but no.
I’m not acting as though my feelings are hurt. That would be me pretending I’m sitting in the corner crying, and I’m just not like that. No, I’m offended. Your initial comments in here were offensive.
That’s it. Sorry if that “insults” you somehow (though I love it how when you don’t mean offense, that’s supposed to automatically exonerate you, but the same doesn’t work for me), but there’s really nothing I can do about that.
Thanks. I was wondering if it was just me. It’s too early for me to be drunk.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:52 PM
But the Iranians are already accusing us of interfering in their business. We can say that we hope that the outcome will benefit our country, but what if, 20 or 30 years down the road, events that are taking place today or in the near future are used to fuel hostilities against us by our enemies? Or what if some in Washington are using this as a prelude to eventual armed conflict with Iran? The future is always uncertain, and no government should view the world as a giant chess board on which players are manipulated for our own advancement.
Also, how are we to support the Iranians? Aside from arms or covert operations, what will prevent these protesters from being utterly suppressed by the current regime?
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Wow, I thought conservatives did not whine about being offended? I thought that was the Democrat game. My comments were true and not offensive and you are wasting your time arguing otherwise. You want to stop the whole world to let everyone know how offended you are. No one cares. Either say something else or don’t say anything at all.
A Capella, what have I done besides disagree with the prevailing sentiment on this site? I obviously think that I am right and so far only a few people have actually said something meaningful against me that doesn’t imply that I am personally attacking anybody here. What did I do to you?
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Even though we’ve done nothing, proving only that they’ll make that accusation regardless of what we do, so it’s hard to take it seriously.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Her nastiness is accusing me of being offensive when I just wanted to disagree with what Allahpundit and others were doing with the images of this girl. I do not know Esthier and I do not have anything bad to say about him or her. I therefore find her accusations both tedious and insulting.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 8:00 PM
How about here?
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 8:01 PM
I’m not whining. I was only explaining that your comments were offensive even though you don’t seem to believe they are.
But then, if that’s what you believe, then what’s up with this?
Is it only whining when I’m saying you’ve been disrespectful?
Just want to know the rules here.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 8:01 PM
First make a statement expressing support for people who want to have affair and free elections. Second, un-invite the Iranians from the 4th of July celebrations. Third, jam the security forces communications equipment. Forth, hack into their computers and make sure they can’t track protesters on Twitter or on their cell phone.
3 and 4 can be done in such a way that no evidence points to us.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 8:04 PM
She gets that way sometimes. Best to ignore her and simply make your points to people who will have a rational discussion with you.
If you want to discuss instead of getting into a war, then I am willing.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 8:05 PM
Why don’t you run along, then, and lecture the people who actually are exhibiting the simplistic views you find so disturbing?
Just in case anyone needs reacquainting with how you leaped into the discussions here, have a gander at Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 5:56 PM.
DrSteve on June 22, 2009 at 8:07 PM
I didn’t even bother listening to McShamnesty. That RINO will simply go back to castigating conservatives the minute it is expedient for him to do so.
The LA Times article gives me all the warm fuzzies I need and I don’t have to listen to a RINO troll for votes.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 8:09 PM
Anyone who was on the Neda thread last night believe this? The irony is a bit much for me.
I took offense at these discussions being called pathetic, at being compared to Marxists and at being told I’m not to care about people I’ll never meet.
For that I’m nasty.
Figures.
Yeah, that was my point exactly, but apparently it’s “nasty” to point that out.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 8:10 PM
Well I am always on Hot Air, even though I disagree strongly with many movement conservatives, which is why I hardly comment. Well, that and the fact that most do not want to have a discussion, they merely want to sound off really quickly on an issue. I am not saying that’s wrong, just not worth reading. I appreciate the words csdeven, especially since I am aware that most people on this site do not agree with me. I just was not expecting somebody to act as if I had any personal hatred towards them, which I don’t.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 8:14 PM
I find that hard to believe. I bet you go on moralizing about another pet peeve of yours as soon as you have the chance.
But let’s give it a try. How about the four things things I mentioned that could be done?
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Who should take offense to that? It’s a valid opinion and could be met with valid counter arguments.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 8:14 PM
Can yahoo guys stop feeling sorry for yourselves.
What would you do different from Obama?
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 8:15 PM
It still is pathetic to act as if you care about some girl you will never know. It is also insulting to her and it is very trivializing. I mean everything I said in my first comment. All of this sentimental nonsense strongly resembles liberal activism (Darfur, animal rights, racism, diseases, etc.). Now this girls death will be used by people who do not actually care about her in order to serve their own political ends. I think that on this point, this site is no different from liberal sites, Marxist or otherwise.
Innocent Smith on June 22, 2009 at 8:18 PM
If you consider that a well laid argument and not inflammatory then I would like to see inflammatory from you. The post is almost certainly designed to piss people of, bit because of the content but the tone.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 8:18 PM
I’m not at all acting that way. I only talked about the words you chose and even then, after you were trying to tell others to speak to you with respect.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 8:19 PM
You cannot be serious.
I count 2 insults, a generalization and a loathsome exhortation to indifference to human suffering. And that’s just in the first paragraph.
Where I’ve seen an actual argument in that pile of horse manure I’ve responded to it.
DrSteve on June 22, 2009 at 8:22 PM
He wasn’t the best choice the GOP could have picked to run as President, but he speaks with conviction and an understanding on this issue. The man lived it.
And it was well said.
Asher on June 22, 2009 at 8:22 PM
So again, we’re pathetic and really don’t care (and what’s worse, we’re pretending to care). And, on top of that, we’d fit right at home in liberal and/or Marxists sites.
No, nothing at all offensive about any of that. Guys, these are actually complements.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 8:23 PM
When I see a dead girl on TV (News not CIS) I feel for her to. Somehow assuming that because you are not capable of the human compassion means we are not allowed to be is pretty self centered.
Actually putting it all together: Inflammatory opening post + whiny self pity = liberal
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 8:25 PM
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