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The NYT/CBS poll is junk – and bad news for Obamacare

posted at 5:10 pm on June 21, 2009 by Karl
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This is what propaganda looks like:

Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system and are strongly behind [72%] one of the most contentious proposals Congress is considering, a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Bruce Kesler points out that — in traditional NYT/CBS fashion — the sample is badly skewed:

According to the actual poll data, of the 73% of respondents who said they voted in 2008 only 34% voted for McCain and 66% for Obama. The actual vote was 48% McCain.

This is a good example of why reading a poll is as much art as science, because the first problem is the percentage who say they voted in the 2008 election. In reality, no more than 62% of eligible voters cast ballots last year. Accordingly, the poll has sampled a lot of adults who were ineligible to vote… or, as often happens, respondents lied about voting. In such cases, the lie tends to skew in favor of the winner.

Does that mean the sample might be more valid than Kesler suggests? Not in this case. In this poll, the sample identified as 27% liberal, 37% moderate, and 29% conservative. In contrast, last week’s Gallup Poll showed Americans identify as 21% liberal, 35% moderate, and 40% conservative.

But wait… there’s more. The same NYT/CBS poll previously published more information about this very sample, showing that 16% was temporarily out of work, and another 10% was not in the market for work. Democratic pollster Stanley Greenberg tells us that those who have been unemployed within the past year (or have an immediate family member in that category) are the most supportive of a government takeover of the US healthcare system. So a sample with much higher unemployment than the national average tells us something about the skew here also.

While the NYT trumpets the supposed support for a public plan among its skewed sample (which was not asked about support in the event they were to be dumped into the public plan by their employers), the rest of the results are bad news for Obamacare. The number who say the system needs fundamental change is almost exactly what it was in 1993-94. The number who trust the president to make the right decisions on healthcare policy is almost exactly what it was in 1993 — the number who trust Congress has actually declined. Both are below 40% in trust.

The number who would be willing to pay higher taxes to fund Obamacare (57%) is lower than in 1993. Of those willing to pay higher taxes, only 43% would be willing to pay as much as $500 a year more in taxes. That means fewer than 25% of a sample largely skewed towards liberals are willing to pay an amount far less than what Obamacare may actually require.

In short, the skewed NYT/CBS poll is no better for the Democrats than any of the other recent polls. In some ways, it is worse.

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
To see the comments on the original post, look here.


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Comment pages: 1 2

Shameless, in the tank, disgusting.

OneGyT on June 21, 2009 at 11:03 PM

Is there any way for a rich conservative to buy CBS? Out of the 3 MSM networks, it seems to be the one in the most financial trouble.

Tasha on June 21, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Great breakdown, Karl. It’s good to know the “why”, even when we already know the “what”.

Jaibones on June 21, 2009 at 11:17 PM

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.

HotAir is a promotion from the Green Room?

Are they elitists?

/

faraway on June 21, 2009 at 11:35 PM

I love it. The poll is simultaneously junk AND actually stands for the opposite proposition!

cjw79 on June 21, 2009 at 8:11 PM

If you look at the analysis in the post, the author’s conclusion is along the lines of “It’s junk when the pollsters try to extrapolate from the sample to the general population and it’s ‘bad news’ for Obama because even the people in his base don’t want to pay for it”. It’s really not that complicated.

venividivici on June 22, 2009 at 12:01 AM

72% of Kool-Aid drinkers really like Kool-Aid. Nothing surprising about a poll like that.

crosspatch on June 22, 2009 at 1:57 AM

Just another example of the fourth estate fifth column trying to tell Americans what to think instead of reporting the facts.

infidel4life on June 22, 2009 at 2:55 AM

I also read recently that this new program of Obama’s might not include as many as two thirds of the uninsured. Would people support spending a trillion plus for a program that ignored two thirds of the unemployed?

Terrye on June 22, 2009 at 7:09 AM

2 things to do this week: call/write/email your congressmen to protest the obamacare or any publicly funded healthcare bill coming out of Congress. sit in their local offices as a protest.

boycott anything advertised on ABC

kelley in virginia on June 22, 2009 at 7:21 AM

infidel4life

The hell of it is that the state-run media beleives it is reporting the facts. As Mr. Goldberg described so aptly in his book, they don’t see themselves as slanted to the left. To them, the left is natural and just and normal and is actually the middle. It’s the right that is abnormal, unhinged and deserving of ridicule. When the polls (even their own) show the public doesn’t agree with them, they call the result a “temper tantrum” or agonize over the public’s induced schizophrenia, clearly the fault of Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.
This mindset will continue until the stilted crop of “journalists” die off. Of course J-schools are cultivating this mindset so that could take a long, long time.

SKYFOX on June 22, 2009 at 7:37 AM

Terrye on June 22, 2009

You would support it if you cared enough, you racist, sexist, ageist, homophobic neanderthal. You are despicable because you focus on the numbers in a world of limited resources instead of the feeling behind the effort. Your logic is damnable. Embrace the emotion. Yes, we can!

SKYFOX on June 22, 2009 at 7:44 AM

Why does anyone in today’s political climate think it’s germane what the masses want? That’s not how Congress runs anymore. What the poll should have looked at is what O supports because I predict that’s what will happen in the dead of night – a quick passage of crap, not read by anyone in the government, wham bam, thank you Congress.

katablog.com on June 22, 2009 at 8:31 AM

Why does anyone in today’s political climate think it’s germane what the masses want? That’s not how Congress runs anymore. What the poll should have looked at is what O supports because I predict that’s what will happen in the dead of night – a quick passage of crap, not read by anyone in the government, wham bam, thank you Congress.

katablog.com on June 22, 2009 at 8:31 AM

You’re exactly correct . . . congress passes those bills that will secure their place at the public feeding trough. The masses are irrelevant and with Obama so is the Constitution. Sad but true.

rplat on June 22, 2009 at 8:41 AM

Is there any way for a rich conservative to buy CBS? Out of the 3 MSM networks, it seems to be the one in the most financial trouble.

Tasha on June 21, 2009 at 11:10 PM

Always hoped it’d be Rush.

ExTex on June 22, 2009 at 8:57 AM

My question is: What value is a poll about peoples views, when those people elect an idiot that thinks there is 57 states.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 9:13 AM

The NYT skewing data…you mean the same one who kept quiet one of their people who were kidnapped because they were “protecting” them, but who plasters every other name of the internet?

NEW YORK (AP) – Deciding not to report initially on reporter David Rohde’s capture by the Taliban for seven months was “an agonizing position that we revisited over and over again,” New York Times executive editor Bill Keller said Sunday.

“All along, we were told by people that probably the wisest course for David’s safety was to keep it quiet,” Keller said in an interview on CNN.

But they would have no problem reporting of intelligence that leads to the death of our military…f**in parasites.

right2bright on June 22, 2009 at 9:19 AM

My question is: What value is a poll about peoples views, when those people elect an idiot that thinks there is 57 states.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 9:13 AM

Worse, it was 60 states.
He visited 57, had one more to see, and was not allowed to go to Hawaii or Alaska.

right2bright on June 22, 2009 at 9:21 AM

Do you understand that this deliberate misuse of polling to accomplish this healthcare agenda is tantamount to stealing our civil rights? Stealing our money? Stealing our freedom of choice in healthcare? The MSM are criminals. I’d love to get ahold of their emails to prove it.

marklmail on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

pure crap.

moonbatkiller on June 22, 2009 at 9:27 AM

Worse, it was 60 states.
He visited 57, had one more to see, and was not allowed to go to Hawaii or Alaska.

right2bright on June 22, 2009 at 9:21 AM

LOL…I stand corrected. I was an idiot. Now I can be eligible for a NYT/CBS poll

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 9:39 AM

There’s lies, damn lies and polls…….

imperator on June 22, 2009 at 9:48 AM

Do you understand that this deliberate misuse of polling to accomplish this healthcare agenda is tantamount to stealing our civil rights? Stealing our money? Stealing our freedom of choice in healthcare? The MSM are criminals. I’d love to get ahold of their emails to prove it.

marklmail on June 22, 2009 at 9:23 AM

You assume that by exposing them more than half the country would care. Look, people stupid enough to vote in Obama don’t have the mental capacity to understand complex topics. Hence a campaign based on moronic chants of “Hope & Change”, and “Yes We Can”.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 9:56 AM

…don’t have the mental capacity to understand complex topics. Hence a campaign based on moronic chants of “Hope & Change”, and “Yes We Can”.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009

I think they could understand but chose to switch on “cruise control” guided by persistent media bashing of the past eight years, black racism and white guilt. The key is to get the electorate to engage their brains again. Don’t know if we can do it, but we have to try. Our children deserve the effort.

SKYFOX on June 22, 2009 at 10:07 AM

I am SHOCKED.

easyone on June 22, 2009 at 10:14 AM

I think they could understand but chose to switch on “cruise control” guided by persistent media bashing of the past eight years, black racism and white guilt. The key is to get the electorate to engage their brains again. Don’t know if we can do it, but we have to try. Our children deserve the effort.

SKYFOX on June 22, 2009 at 10:07 AM

On the contrary, forty years of “dumbing down”in our schools have left an electorate that cannot comprehend any issue that isn’t first, delivered by the elected officials in small doses and simple wording, then regurgitated by the media into chants. That’s easily shown when a word or phrase seldom used in common everyday usage, like “lacking gravitas”, turns into three weeks of the media spewing it back at it’s audience.

No, I’m sorry, but there is no hope of actually thinking through an issue by anyone calling themselves a Democrat.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 10:18 AM

I disagree, of course. I think the polls reflect the truth more than you’d like to admit. Healthcare was always listed as a number one concern throughout the primaries and the election.

And I also think the Dems and Repubs in the senate blocking reform will be surprised when voters reject them in the future.

AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 10:43 AM

I disagree, of course. I think the polls reflect the truth more than you’d like to admit. Healthcare was always listed as a number one concern throughout the primaries and the election.

And I also think the Dems and Repubs in the senate blocking reform will be surprised when voters reject them in the future.

AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 10:43 AM

If it is so wanted by the electorate, then why LIE about the fact that the REAL goal is not, “another choice”, but “the only choice”.

If this is passed, we’re doomed as a country. There’s NO way to pay for it.

Jeff from WI on June 22, 2009 at 11:11 AM

I disagree, of course. I think the polls reflect the truth more than you’d like to admit. Healthcare was always listed as a number one concern throughout the primaries and the election.

And I also think the Dems and Repubs in the senate blocking reform will be surprised when voters reject them in the future.

AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 10:43 AM

First off, you misunderstand what people are saying. They want some kind of reform, to make it affordable. What they do NOT want, is Government intervention on this. They’ve pilferred, and destroyed Social Security. Medicare, and Medicaid are on the verge. What makes anyone think Govenrment run health care will work? It’s not working anywhere else? Just because it exists, and is forced on people, to have to take substandard care, doesn’t make it a success.

Secondly…all polls, and I mean ALL polls are not 100% concrete in their data. We don’t know if the person answering the questions is being honest, or some teenager screwing around. We don’t know a lot of things about those answering these polls.

But I wouldn’t trust the NYT, or CBS. They’ve all but said they’re there to support, and uphold Obama. If that means lying, then I’m sure they will, or skew the truth, to put it in his favor.

capejasmine on June 22, 2009 at 11:35 AM

I am unemployed and DO NOT want free healthcare. I am not one to believe that anything is free.

I hope this is a sign that the people will stand up to government healthcare just like they did with Hillary’s healthcare plan. It’s the last thing we need and all you have to do is look at public education to see where it will go.

In order to get government funding a school has to pass certain arbitrary tests. Some teachers fudge the number, which is corruption. Some students actually improve and get no credit because they still didn’t make it above the threshold for passing which also disheartens them. They end up teaching for and studying for the test which changes the curriculum.

Government run healthcare will turn into health mandates for everyone to keep costs down. Doctors will fudge the numbers which will result in sickness and death, which will result in lawsuits against either doctors or the government. You’ll have to prove you eat a certain diet to keep the best healthcare otherwise you are too expensive. The government will end up telling you when and what to eat or you lose your healthcare. Actually follow this system and if you don’t improve quick enough you could still lose some coverage. It’s gonna happen folks…look to the schools. It’s all there as proof.

ConDem on June 22, 2009 at 11:39 AM

They want some kind of reform, to make it affordable. What they do NOT want, is Government intervention on this

I disagree. People asked if they trusted government more than insurance companies actually responded: government.

That’s how badly the private insurance industry has performed over the past few years. It’s not just the sub-prime mortgage lenders who started using deceptive practices. It’s also the insurance industry.

People know it, down to their very toes.

AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:06 PM

AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:06 PM

You’re a believer of polls, then perhaps Rassmussen is dead on. More are losing hope, and don’t trust Obama with the economy. I think the same could be held for health care. If he can’t get the economy under control, what makes you think he can do health care?

In this economy, how will it be paid for, who will pay for it? I think you want this so bad, without realizing this isn’t about health care at all, but about control. When , in the end, no choice is given pertaining to your health care….just how good is that care going to be? It won’t be what’s offered now.

I think you just hear, read, and see what you want to see! No offense, but if we’re reading the same polls, we’re not reading the same things from them.

capejasmine on June 22, 2009 at 1:16 PM

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