Neda identified? Update: New details
posted at 7:18 pm on June 21, 2009 by Allahpundit
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Word on the street via one Iranian tweeter is that her name was Neda Agha Soltan. That’s also the name circulating on a few websites and now being attributed to her in a hastily arranged Wikipedia bio. The rumor — and it’s all rumor until some newspaper tracks down her family — is that she was 27 years old and a philosophy student. I hope to god this isn’t really her photo because the thought of her being so beautiful and dignified makes the murder somehow that much more obscene.
Two clips below. The second you’ve already seen; the first is a new one circulating today, shot sometime before the moment of truth. The blue shirt on the gray-haired man in the foreground should look familiar. That’s almost certainly her standing to his left, watching the protest, bothering no one. Read this Time piece on Neda by Iran expert Robin Wright afterwards, as it touches on the huge significance of martyrdom not only in Shiite theology but in Iran’s political tradition. If there’s any justice, there’ll be videos like this of Khamenei and Ahmadinejad someday soon.
Update: A Farsi speaker tells HuffPo that this blogger is claiming that Neda was at the protest with her professor and several other students and that the fatal shot was fired by a Basij driving by on a motorcycle. No rhyme or reason; I wonder if he even aimed. The burial, reportedly, was today — and her memorial service was ordered canceled by the regime.
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You’d wish – you irritate me not threaten me. Just like every other moralizing busy body irritates me. Would you do the same in church at a funeral? Probably so.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I’m rather shocked people are still arguing over what AP already explained.
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Produce the quote troll. All you are doing now is trying to illicit an emotion response by making outrageous statements.
Produce the quote or STFU.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Your opinion was an attack. Sorry if people don’t like you attacking them. I’d say to you not to attack people.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:11 PM
Ain’t that the truth, Ann. I read you on another site state your independent thought and then are attacked viciously with ad hominem. Why is it that people so often can’t respectfully and civilly disagree? I love the Internet, but the anonymity has led to a pervasive online culture of brutal “flaming”. It’s one thing to ask people who are deliberately causing trouble to respectfully go away or just ignore them, but quite another to squelch those who simply hold dissenting opinions from the majority.
(Sorry to go O/T, but it seemed to fit in with the current conversation. It *would* be nice to go back to discussing Neda, specifically.)
EarthToZoey on June 22, 2009 at 1:13 PM
The general belief is that she was simply in the path. But we do have a thread that specificall discusses the role of women in this revolution. If you pop over there, I’ll try and respond later in the day. My eldest was married this weekend and I’ve got a yard I have to clean up.
Peace
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 1:13 PM
There ya go.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:14 PM
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I don’t feel bad for being good looking.
I feel bad for my friends and family members who are judged for not being so.
I never told anyone what to think. I simply gave my opinion on the statement that AllahP made in the original blogposting.
Because I feel bad for people being judged on looks, I try not to judge by that myself. That’s just me.
Now, if you are arguing about the Job someone is doing…That’s totally different. They are responsible for doing a good job. But people don’t choose their looks. They’re simply born that way.
I get the points being made here.
I’m not playing ‘better than thou’
I simply made a comment.
I’m not a troll.
I’m just a girl who wishes others wouldn’t judge people because of how they look. I just can’t help it.
:)
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Exactly. But, it’s used to today to suggest the person’s differing opinion is outside of the “group think,” and it’s nearly always followed by “Why are you here?”
It’s a way to marginalize someone who disagrees. What’s interesting to me?
Real trolls rarely need to be “marginalized.” They get boring fast. It’s actually someone who is ‘threatening’ or, in a lot of cases, is available for nasty exchanges for whatever reason.
I figure those exchanges probably means someone’s spouse barked at them, and they are still nursing a resentment. *haha
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Did you also read his clarification
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM
See:
gh on June 22, 2009 at 1:16 PM
No, I’m just pointing out what everyone else but you knows. I couldn’t care less about your response. Frankly, I think you are devoid of emotion. You STFU.
Blake on June 22, 2009 at 1:16 PM
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Yes, see here:
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 12:54 PM
:)
I’m getting good at this. lol
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 1:17 PM
I don’t know if or why you were called a troll, or whether you are one. But people’s emotions are running high in reaction to Neda’s murder and in reaction to attacks on the way they express their reactions to her murder. So, if you were falsely targeted by anyone, I am sorry for that. I know what it’s like. But I hope you can forgive and forget.
If you don’t like the way others express themselves about Neda’s death, I request you post or report your own views about it. But do so in a manner that does not cast aspersions on others for the way they express their reactions. If you do, nobody should attack you. If you don’t, but do attack others, then expect combat.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Neda WILL be the icon image of this amazing and captivating story of Iran. The entire story is absolutely riveting to me, anyway.
And the fact that she’s beautiful simply was, for me, sort of what I call a “God shot.” Of course, I thought when I saw her. That’s just adds to this woman’s story and melts hearts of anyone who has a shred left.
The real story is watching a human literally die. That’s the real gripper here. I was stunned, as I sure most of us were. That was not like CSI.
That was just such a stunning, stunning video.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Csdeven,
Pay no attention to Blake. He will just continue with his insults while whining how you’re attacking everyone. He’s mental.
Alexey on June 22, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Good deal
I guess people can be pretty AND smart! :P
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:19 PM
I think we can put the argument to rest now.
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Good. I understand. Take care.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:17 PM
I could never hold a grudge about anonymous internet commenters. nothing to forgive or forget.
I don’t mind combat, but I need to understand the combat I’m in! Like being called a troll.
Now I know! Thanks for your advice~
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Woo Hooo! :) lol
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 1:22 PM
That’s fine. Except we’re not judging her because she looks good. We’re judging that she does look good, as opposed to not doing so. Hence, the beauty she has is lost. That it is lost makes the death more tragic. Any more good things we learn about her will make her death more tragic.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM
Neda. Won’t soon be forgotten.
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 1:24 PM
I think it’s too late after 12 pages (and counting) to “not feed the troll(s)” But just one Off Topic example might help to explain what AP explained a while ago.
When John Edwards cheated on his wife, that was awful, right?
That his mistriss became pregnant made the situation worse, right?
That he was paying his mistress a lot of money for a job she wasn’t necessarilly qualified for made the situation worse, right?
That he apparently bribed a staff member who was married with children of his own to pretend the affair and child was his made it worse, didn’t it?
That his wife at the time of the affair had cancer made it worse, didn’t it?
That he spent time on the campaign trail bringing her with him to gain sympathy that she had cancer, made it even worse, didn’t it?
According to what some are saying, him having an affair is aweful, and nothing else thereafter affects that fact at all. What the rest are saying is that the initial fact is horrible, and every single other factor adds to the sadness of the event.
As in this case, there was report of a human murdered in cold blood.
She happened to be female (an oppressed minority in Iran)
She happened to be young (being denied a lifetime she should have been able to freely live)
And yes, she happened to be pretty, too.
Yes, we’re outraged at the initial fact, but it is reasonable, and doesn’t make us bad people, to feel incrementally worse as more and more information is known.
I see someone posted that she was engaged, that makes it even worse, because now there is a man grieving the loss of his fiancee. By my saying that are people really going to argue that I value engaged people more than single ones?
Please let this tribute be a tribute, and not an opportunity to air pet-peeves.
DrAllecon on June 22, 2009 at 1:24 PM
I only hold grudges in response to those held against me. And often, not even then.
FWIW, I do not think you are a troll. You are making a reasoned, sensible argument.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:25 PM
They think they are friends, so they pile on. Probably the same goes on here. I’ve been on the net for a lot longer. I got over that. *haha
I state my opinions here. That spares my family from having to listen. :)
I figure this is an appropriate outlet.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:25 PM
Rosslyn Smith @ American Thinker has posted a great article substantiating my opinion that I shared earlier.
How it goes for women in Iran specifically determines how it goes for everyone.
maverick muse on June 22, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Cool! The two liars have found each other. I expect they will form a club with secret handshakes and all other kinds of neat stuff. lol!
Blake on June 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Maybe some of you should invest in some cosmetic surgery. Then hopefully you will not be so bitter, petty, and shallow.
RIP Neda, may your “voice” endure.
infidel on June 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM
What is that supposed to mean?
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:28 PM
Iran’s tyrants can
kill Neda Agha Soltan
but her voice still lives
– Haiku in memmorium of Neda
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:29 PM
You’re making too much sense.
Blake on June 22, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Nice… start off with a bust and end with a rest in Peace.
**rolls eyes**
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 1:31 PM
infidel on June 22, 2009 at 1:27 PM
lol, because telling someone to get cosmetic surgery is so NOT Bitter, Petty or Shallow, huh?
sheesh.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Good One~
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 1:32 PM
I’m really getting disgusted with some of the mental density of some of the commenters here. AP clarified his comment.
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:32 PM
But then again I’m a conservative so naturally, I am disgusted
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Ugh…
How is telling people they should alter their physical appearance through surgery not shallow or petty?
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:34 PM
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:25 PM
:)
Thank You!!
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Nature has nothing to do with it. You are looking out for a friend. Good boy.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Persia has been the gem of the world throughout history, envied by so many, coveted by her Islamic, Arab and Russian neighbors for centuries. Every legitimate nation has the obligation to protect the innocent. Neda’s life was snuffed out as she looked to see for herself, DARING to use her mind even in so passive a role as being a bystander next to her father.
I admire Sarkozy for repudiating the tyrannical Iranian oppression, and for again repudiating the burqa IN FRANCE.
maverick muse on June 22, 2009 at 1:37 PM
If I’m disgusted about your disgust, am I a conservative, or a conservative squared?
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:37 PM
lol, the first, and probably last time I’ll ever be accused of that.
DrAllecon on June 22, 2009 at 1:38 PM
HM
Good question
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Can a conservative be both square and lame? Yes we can!
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:39 PM
you are conservative to the 5th power, divided by 3.172 multiplied times infinity.
Happy now?
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM
European elections indicate a swing to the right. He’s not stupid.
And the burqa issue, I take it, is whether they are standing up for Iranian women there who are being forced into burqas unwillingly.
We have an interesting case, too. We insisted the burqa not be worn in a trial, since it’s important for the jury to watch someone while testifying. The Muslim community has filed a lawsuit.
Great conflict of values type case.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM
You broke my graphing calculator.
I’ll email you an address to send the replacement.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Nope, can’t. I am sending Hawkdriver boxes. Money it tied up in the army right now… to protect our BUTTS!
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Neda was engaged.
I said something earlier about wanting to see Dinner Jacket and Khameini swinging from a rope.
I rescind that.
What I would like to see happen to them is probably a bit too graphic to explain here. I will only say that I would like horror struck in the cold hearts of monsters that cause this.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:44 PM
I feel that some people here must be ugly. What they have written does not honor Neda. I feel they are jealous. I am extremely dissapointed regarding the twelve pages of BS arguing about her beauty. These shallow and petty trolls, yes trolls, you know who you are, have hijacked this memorial thread. The same trolls who dishonor Neda’s memory by telling me I do not have a right to be outraged because Neda is beautiful. I said last night, most of us were outraged when we did not even know about her physical beauty. I was hoping these same trolls would not take a dump on this thread again this morning, yet they live to troll and are either classless, clueless or both. End of rant.
infidel on June 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Then hawkdriver will get the bill when he comes back safe and sound.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM
My opinion on the beauty deal?
Well, I worked with this incredibly beautiful Latina. She was, frankly, dumb as a doorknob. We’d go to meetings. I’m no dog, by any shakes, but I’d work my tail off, preparing reports, etc. She never did. She’d show up to meetings, unprepared, and say the most stupid things.
Every corporate guy in the room would jump in and “fix” her remarks, sometimes contradicting her entirely.
The rest of we merely “attractive but not stunning” women would laugh later and say, “We got graced.” That was her name.
It’s just the way of the world. She ALWAYS earned more than me. Probably still does.
My only consolation? Her personal life was a complete mess. She could pick the most gumba men of anyone I’ve ever met. They were about as bright as she was and handled relationships about that way, too. *haha
I don’t begrudge pretty people their prettiness. She didn’t write a single thing that wasn’t really written by me. :)
I felt sorry for her in a way. She’d never developed a single skill and was completely dependent in that way. So I helped her out.
Yeah, I was a sucker. But I really always felt a bit sorry for the beauty queen types. They didn’t have much reason to learn how to work in life.
I seriously doubt that’s the case with Neda. That’s not a society, obviously, where that’s a huge factor, given they cover up. She was obviously in college and working.
Anyway, jealousy is silly in life. Some people are given this gift. Others are given that gift.
It all works out.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Death — the great equalizer, as I put it :D
blatantblue on June 22, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Since quite a few of us haven’t said anything about beauty. Wanna add who you think are “trolls”?
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Certainly. And with that a whole wave of dumb blonde jokes and bimbo jokes to equate beauty with stupidity. I grew up hearing a lot of them and as a blonde 10-year-old, took them personally. Maybe that’s why I don’t feel beauty is something to be ignored when discussing a person.
Oh, I’ve seen plenty as well, and often that’s appropriate, but I’ve never seen a forum where reading through wasn’t at least appreciated, especially if the comments in the later pages are connected to the ones on the first few pages.
But again, certainly mean nothing ill towards you. You seem to have your heart in the right place and are more than welcome to share your point(s).
Wow. That’s far worse. I don’t even have words for that except to wish the fiance peace.
And many pretty women have been taught to feel guilty as well. That’s not right either. You’re more pleasant to look at than your sister. Fine. I’m sure she has many other things people prefer about her.
How am I disgusting? All I’ve said is that we know nothing about her father, and we don’t. You’re the one who called her “dead meat” and that’s far more obscene than what I said which was merely that we can’t judge something we don’t know.
Well, what about people who were born with specific advantages that relate to their jobs? They didn’t choose them either.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 1:51 PM
I think he’s talking specifically about posters like csdeven who made a big deal about those who mentioned her beauty as something that makes her death even harder to bear.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Thank you very much for returning so soon and posting here.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I’m waiting for the mullahs to make displaying of Ms. Soltan’s photo or likeness a crime.
Blake on June 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM
the displaying
Blake on June 22, 2009 at 1:57 PM
I don’t know. I’m too hot to answer that. I’m too sexy for this question.
LOL
I’m kidding. I’m just not in the mood for combat anymore. I got Allah’s point thanks to Csdeven and I think my point was made.
RIP NEDA, no matter what your earthly body looked like~
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 1:57 PM
Ok I will feed the troll. Csdeven, some of your post are well thought out, but your ugly side is showing in this thread. I wish you would have let it rest, but your smallness is showing. You have dumped all over this thread and dishorered Neda’s memory by trying to get your petty point across. I get it, you are ugly. But you cannot change the way I feel. My apologies to everyone else for being vague/cryptic before.
Can we please drop the arguments about Neda’s beauty?
infidel on June 22, 2009 at 1:58 PM
I have a break at work. Learning that she was engaged and wasn’t even 27 yet… this story just keeps getting worse and more heartbreaking.
That’s fine.
Esthier on June 22, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Well, I’m more liberal. I think it’s the 50’s. *haha
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:08 PM
TY ini… very well put.
upinak on June 22, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Brit Hume is laying it on Obama about his silence right now. I do feel sorry for Neda’s fiance. While we are not young, if something were to happen to my fiance, I would be devastated. Obama does not have the strength of character necessary to hold the job of an American President. His only talents are following the orders of his handlers and the ability to read a teleprompter.
kingsjester on June 22, 2009 at 2:10 PM
They shall not silence
the vibrant soul of Neda
The Voice of Iran
– Haiku in memoriam of Neda
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 2:10 PM
No quote? I knew it you despicable troll. Go back to Huffpo or kos and troll there.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:22 PM
You sir are the dispicable troll in this thread. Let it go. Try to stay on topic, maybe you could contribute something nice to say about Neda.
infidel on June 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Rich coming from you. You can’t overcome your own pettiness and sully a thread about a serious issue with your need to defend you self-admitted “pet-peeve”.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Hahaha!
Blake on June 22, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Typically, I consider Blake much more of a troll than you.
You’re proving me wrong.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Damn,..give it a rest. Please!
a capella on June 22, 2009 at 2:34 PM
You may assume that my pants are around my ankles or that they are belted around my waist. I don’t think I’m very important, so I will return you to my subject: It seems that, other things being equal, we prefer whatever is beautiful in some respect over whatever is ugly in that same respect. Thus, however much we would deplore the destruction of the ugly thing, we would deplore the destruction of its beautiful counterpart even more.
Don’t waste energy telling me I’m a bad man, unless wasting your energy pleases you. I’ve told you I don’t consider myself very important. But perhaps you can show me some way in which my simple statements are deficient.
Kralizec on June 22, 2009 at 2:35 PM
You act like your position is an unknown for us. We just disagree that her beauty is more important than who she is as a person. Your straw man argument about liberal “eveyone wins” pc is BS. If she were in a beauty contest there would be no discussion. Unfortunately for your argument, she wasn’t in a beauty pageant where her looks were a consideration. She was in a political protest where her views and commitment were the issues at hand.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:36 PM
I already have by defender as a person and rejecting the insistence that she was simply a pretty face.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:38 PM
For the umpteenth time, I’ll repeat this, and then repeat it no more.
We don’t know who she was as a person.
We only know what she looks like, and what happened to her, and now we know she was engaged.
What else are we expected to pass judgment on?
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Is that you, Barry? You’re acting like him. An egotistical, narcissistic child. Let’s just forget all about Neda and focus on you. Is that it?
Shameless Desecrater Troll.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM
What she was “like” isn’t the story.
She is and will always be the iconographic image of this uprising by people.
Without a doubt.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM
And for the umpteenth time we know she has a family and friends. She was loved and gave love. There is even mention of a fiance. Isn’t that enough for you?
That is enough for me to have all the moral outrage I can muster. And trying to get MORE OUTRAGE because of her looks is simply impossible for me.
Like I told you last night, we will have to simply agree to disagree.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Wow. No you’re assuming the mantle of a defender of Neda. You must be dripping with that self-absorbedness of yours.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 2:42 PM
I agree.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:44 PM
So you don’t defend her?
Why would you not defend her?
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Yep.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 2:46 PM
csdeven is simply defending his own opinons and comments.
It’s called having a discussion. He’s got a strong opinion. So what? You are all allowed to have one and he’s not?
csdeven, they want to attack someone. You’re the go to guy, I guess. Just give up. They cannot hear you.
bridgetown on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I’ve been posting here for three years and I’m the troll? You don’t understand the definition of the word.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I consider you two equal.
Blake on June 22, 2009 at 2:48 PM
My stubborn streak doesn’t make it easy for them or me for that matter.
But you’re right. Discretion is the better part of valor and I’ll just leave them to their fantasies.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Stupid is as stupid does.
You are trolling this thread.
Loxodonta on June 22, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Savages.
jrab01 on June 22, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Explain yourself.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:51 PM
You are really lacking in reading comprehension as I noticed earlier – so this will be my last response to your increasing frantic and incoherent ramblings.
I already stated my opinion. You are letting your need to fight for your pet-peeve interfere with a thread that has a lot of people pretty upset. You don’t know when to stop and be quiet and you insist on attacking other people for having their opinion and then whine when you get attacked in return. Passive aggressive behavior like that must make you a West Coast guy.
Let it be. When a thread appears on why ugly people get paid less then you have a perfect forum to argue you viewpoint, right now you are just in the wrong thread.
dpierson on June 22, 2009 at 2:51 PM
You’re both a couple of trolls.
;-)
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Seriously, anyone that thinks Neda’s beauty doesn’t make this story much more compelling is being intellectually dishonest. Looks affect our perception of things. It’s biological. Some can claim all they want that it doesn’t matter. Your brain will say otherwise.
Fed45 on June 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Don’t you find it ironic that when you point your finger at me you have three pointing back at you?
Bwahahahahahaha!!!
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:54 PM
I take it back. csdeven at least comes to civil disagreement. You’re simply a bully.
MadisonConservative on June 22, 2009 at 2:57 PM
oh, goodness. You guys labeling make me laugh.
Whose a troll and who isn’t?
Who is being nuts?
Those labeling.
Real trolls are completely self-evident.
AnninCA on June 22, 2009 at 2:57 PM
I have never claimed differently. My point is that we can overcome that biological instinct. Men have an instinct to want to have intercourse with as many women as possible. It’s biological, but that doesn’t stop us from recognizing that we have the ability to be better than that.
csdeven on June 22, 2009 at 2:57 PM
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