Chaos in Iran: I’m ready for martyrdom, says Mousavi; Videos: Woman murdered in cold blood; Update: Obama calls on regime to end violence; Update: Obama goes out for ice cream; Rumor: 150 dead? Report: Mousavi’s office sends letter to Obama?
posted at 9:23 am on June 20, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Today is widely considered the crucial day of the Iranian crisis, which erupted when the ruling mullahs of the Guardian Council made their vote-rigging too obvious for their subjects to ignore. Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei warned Iranians yesterday that his patience was at an end with protests, but activists claimed that they would defy Khamenei and gather again in cities to protest the government and the election results. Today, sketchy reports have hundreds of police blocking access to key areas, including the use of teargas, to keep protestors out:
Heavily armed police prevented several thousand Iranian protesters Saturday from entering Revolution Square — one of the main protest sites in Tehran, a witness told CNN.
About a mile away, police kept the crowd back by throwing two canisters of tear gas at their feet, the witness said.
The Web site of the main opposition candidate, Mir Hossein Moussavi, quoted news reports as saying a flood of people were headed to the capital from surrounding towns.
Thus far, we’ve seen attempts by the government to spread misinformation about the rallies, and confusion and hesitation among the organizers. Protests today will almost certainly be an irrevocable act. If the government doesn’t act with force to suppress the protests, the mullahs will lose all credibility and will have to run for their lives. If they give the order to attack and the police don’t carry it out, they will have to run for their lives. They know the stakes and the risk, but the alternatives for them are all bad; their backs are against the wall — but they still have all the guns, at least for now.
We’ll keep an eye on reports and update as the day goes along. So far, it looks as though the confrontation will come.
Update (AP): Multiple Iranian twitterers are claiming there’s been some sort of explosion at Khomeini’s shrine, which they’re treating as the regime’s version of the Reichstag fire. There’s precedent for that in Iranian history, too.
Update (Ed): NBC’s Today has a good, if basic, report this morning:
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Update (AP): The Khaleej Times says the explosion at Khomeini’s shrine was caused by a suicide bomber. Hmmm.
Update (AP): Two mind-blowing videos for you. The second is familiar; it’s clearly taken at the same assault on the Basij complex that I wrote about earlier this week. Watch all the way through and you’ll see Iranian protesters actually fall after being shot. I don’t know where the first clip is from — it was uploaded by BBC Persia today but could also be from the Basij complex incident a few days ago — but it’s the closest thing I’ve seen yet to all-out war.
As I write this, Iranian twitterers are reporting use of water cannons, teargas, gunshots, and even some sort of burning agent being dropped on the crowds by helicopters. There’s still no confirmation as far as I know that a bomb really did go off at Khomeini’s shrine, but Reuters is now reporting that Mousavi supporters have set fire to a building being used by Ahmadinejad supporters. And now, suddenly, Mousavi is making some sort of statement where he says he’s prepared for martyrdom. Sounds like the gloves are finally all the way off.
Update (AP): Anecdotally, after following them all week, I can tell you that the tone of Iranian twitterers is strikingly different from what it’s been before. Some are openly asking people to pray for them. The fear is palpable.
Here’s a poignant video in Farsi with English subtitles that’s making the rounds today. The din you hear in the background is Tehranians screaming “Allahu Akbar” in defiance of Khamenei last night.
Update (AP): A comparatively calm but significant new clip: According to NIAC, protesters can be heard chanting “Marg bar Khamenei,” i.e. “Death to Khamanei.” It’s not about Ahmadinejad anymore.
Update (AP): If you’re unfamiliar with the cast of characters in Iran, Time’s primer is useful. Meanwhile, new video of what the streets look like in Tehran today. Note the end, where a few protesters display nightsticks they’ve seized from the Basij — to cheers from the crowd.
Update (AP): To see just how bad things have gotten, brace yourself and click here. Strong content warning.
Update (AP): Mousavi knows the regime can’t let him walk free forever and is calling for a strike if he’s detained. Who steps in if he’s jailed, I wonder. Karroubi? Rafsanjani, whom Khamenei would be loath to arrest lest it inflame the clerics?
Gosh, if only the U.S. had troops stationed in some neighboring country or countries so that we could start feeding weapons to the protesters.
Update (AP): Not sure if this is wise under the circumstances, but Israel’s minister for strategic affairs is now openly predicting a revolution — with no resulting change in Iran’s nuke program. Meanwhile, a provocative report from NIAC:
This morning a friend of NIAC who gets Iranian Satellite TV here said that state-run media showed President Obama speaking about Iran this morning. However, instead of translating what he actually said, the translator reportedly quoted Obama as saying he “supports the protesters against the government and they should keep protesting.
Assuming this report is correct, it shows the Iranian government is eager to portray Obama as a partisan supporting the demonstrators.
Update (AP): A HuffPo reader reports that the news about a bombing at Khomeini’s shrine appears to be yet another regime lie:
“I’m watching state TV here in Dubai and they just did a report on the bombing at the mausoleum. There was NO DAMAGE. All they showed was a broken window saying the “terrorists” luckily blew themselves up outside the building before doing any damage inside. The “bombing” was clearly a fraud as there was NO DAMAGE done to the mausoleum other than a broken window they showed at the entrance of the building. It clearly looked like there was NO BOMBING, no explosion fragments or blood shown just one shattered window. Also a correction to my previous e-mail. The program said the youths had been talking to “friends” in the U.K. and the U.S. on the phone about causing destruction in Iran rather than actually going to the U.S. and being trained. Important difference but the subtext is the same. They’re clearly building a case for foreign interference i.e. the U.K and U.S.”
Update (AP): Dear god. Here’s another extremely graphic video of the murder of the young woman I linked up above. NIAC translates the Facebook description as follows: “A young woman who was standing aside with her father watching the protests was shot by a basij member hiding on the rooftop of a civilian house. He had clear shot at the girl and could not miss her. However, he aimed straight her heart. I am a doctor, so I rushed to try to save her. But the impact of the gunshot was so fierce that the bullet had blasted inside the victim’s chest, and she died in less than 2 minutes.”
Update (AP): Another one that’s going viral shot at Shiraz University. Note at about 90 seconds in how the police trap women against the gate and break out the nightsticks. Click the image to watch.
Update (AP): Multiple reports on Twitter now that people are shouting from the rooftops — literally — at Khamenei and the regime.
Update (AP): Verrry interesting: Rooftop shouts now being heard in Mashad, the Shiites’ second holiest city. Proof that the clerics are coming around to the people’s side?
Update (AP): Another murder in Tehran. Skip ahead to 3:25 to see the latest victim of Iran’s “robust debate,” or watch from the beginning and you’ll find protesters picking up rocks and chanting “Marg bar dictator.”
Update (AP): A statement from the White House:
The Iranian government must understand that the world is watching. We mourn each and every innocent life that is lost. We call on the Iranian government to stop all violent and unjust actions against its own people. The universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights.
As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect the dignity of its own people and govern through consent, not coercion.
Martin Luther King once said – “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” I believe that. The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian peoples’ belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness.
Update (AP): An ominous rumor from Tehran Bureau: “good source: Hospital close to the scene in Tehran: 30-40 dead thus far as of 11pm and 200 injured. Police taking names of incoming injured.”
Update (AP): I linked the Facebook video of the young woman being murdered by the Basij earlier but it deserves wide dissemination so I’m giving you the embeddable LiveLeak version too. Forward the link around.
Update (AP): More Twitter reports trickling in about acid or some other sort of corrosive agent being dropped on protesters. And there’s a hot rumor that the Canadian embassy in Tehran has its gates closed to the injured, even as many other embassies have theirs opened. Can anyone confirm/deny?
Update (AP): It’s raining rocks on the streets of Tehran.
Update (AP): Reuel Marc Gerecht tries to answer the million-dollar question: Why would Khamenei risk his supreme authority to fix the election for a disposable goon like Ahmadinejad?
Khamenei, who worked with and struggled against Mousavi for a decade, knows the former prime minister politically as well as anyone. The supreme leader knows that what Mousavi lacks in charisma he has always made up in doggedness…
Khamenei acted so crudely and rashly on June 12 because he’d already seen this movie. What’s happening in Iran now is all about democracy, about the contradictory and chaotic bedfellows that it makes, about the questioning of authority and the personal curiosity that it unleashes. Khamenei knows what George H.W. Bush’s “realist” national security adviser Brent Scowcroft surely knows, too: Democracy in Iran implies regime change. Where Iranians in the 1990s could try to play games with themselves–be in favor of greater democracy but refrain from saying publicly that the current government was illegitimate–this fiction is no longer possible. Khamenei has forced Mousavi and, more important, the people behind him into opposition to himself and the political system he leads. Unless Mousavi gives up, and thereby deflates the millions who’ve gathered around him, a permanent opposition to Khamenei and his constitutionally ordained supremacy has now formed. Like it or not, Mousavi has become the new Khatami–except this time the opposition is stronger and led by a man of considerable intestinal fortitude.
I don’t get it. If Mousavi’s famous for his perseverance, the last thing you’d want to do is antagonize him and his youth movement by defrauding him. It’s practically begging for an uprising. The smart move would be to placate him by bringing him into the regime and then compromising with him on some basic reforms; that, at least, would keep the regime in place. It makes more sense to me to think that Khamenei feared opposing Ahmadinejad because he’s been such a generous patron to the Revolutionary Guard. If Mousavi won and Khamenei endorsed it, the Guard might stage a coup to protect the gravy train they’ve been riding for the past four years. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.
Update (AP): Have we already reached the point in the crackdown where negotiating with Iran is unthinkable? I know The One has his heart set on it, but the point’s going to come — if it hasn’t already — where the regime behaves so monstrously that he simply can’t afford a photo op with them. As a thought experiment, imagine that the tanks roll tomorrow and then Khamenei turns around on Monday and offers to give up the nuclear program in exchange for the lifting of all sanctions and full diplomatic recognition. Can Obama make that deal now, knowing that it would legitimize these monsters?
Update (AP): Uh oh: The latest Twitter rumor claims there’s a tank in Azadi Square.
Update (AP): CBS reporter Mark Knoller reports that the president decided today of all days would be a good time for a leisurely trip to the ice-cream parlor. Quoth Jim Treacher: “Imagine if Bush went on an ice cream run during something like this. He’d be ‘Worst Person in the World’ every day forever.” Any lefties care to dispute that, especially in light of the longstanding faux outrage over this clip?
Update (AP): The latest unverified/rumored death toll is 150. In other news, Obama ordered a small cup of vanilla.
Update (AP): If Gutfeld’s this pissed about the skateboarding photo op, wait until he hears about the ice cream trip.
Am I an old fart or am I right to be pissed that some jackass is skateboarding down the halls of the White House while all this Iranian shit is going down?…
Right now, people are risking their lives for the glimmer of freedom, and Tony Hawk is in the White House tweeting about Frosted Flakes.
Update (AP): I’m skeptical that Mousavi would send a letter to Obama without publicizing it, but for what it’s worth, Michael Ledeen says he’s got a copy. Excerpt:
In the name of the Iranian people, we want you to know that when you recently made the statement “Achmadinejad or Mousavi? Two of a kind,” we consider this as a grave and deep insult, not just to Mr. Mousavi but especially against the judgment of the Iranian people, against our moral conviction and intelligence, especially those of the young generation that comprises a population of 31 million.
It is a specially grave insult for those who are now fighting for democracy and freedom, and an unwarranted gift and even praise for Mr. Khamenei, whose security forces are now killing peaceful Iranians in the streets of every major city in the country.
Update (AP): If Iranian goons are willing to shoot women dead in the street, I guess it makes sense that they’re willing to drag the wounded from hospitals where they’re being treated. Note that communications from the notorious Evin prison have been cut off, too. I’ve got a nutty hunch that whatever’s going on inside is a bit worse than waterboarding.
Update (AP): CNN is airing YouTube vids of today’s brutality nonstop, which makes me think American public opinion of the regime will soon be so poisonous as to make diplomacy impossible. The One simply won’t be able to justify shaking these cretins’ bloody hands. If that’s so, it means negotiations are dead and a desperate Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear sites is assured — unless the regime is overthrown. The stakes couldn’t be higher.
Update (AP): I keep waiting for news to break that Hamas or Hezbollah has attacked Israel, as Iran could use a distraction right now to appeal to the protesters’ sympathies. Maybe this week? Southern Iraq would be an even more attractive target, as it would embarrass the U.S. The fact that they haven’t done that may be among the best evidence yet of how weak their influence has become in that part of the country.
Update (AP): Just posted at Mousavi’s Facebook page, feast your eyes on Iranian police rushing a crowd of protesters, unsheathing the batons, and swinging for the fences. The chaos starts a little more than a minute in.
Update (AP): The sounds of terror: Screams in the night as the Basij break into people’s homes.
Update (AP): I’m skeptical, but supposedly this clip shows the good guys getting a measure of revenge by lighting a gas line … that leads straight into a Basij complex in eastern Tehran. Watch for the boom five seconds in.
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I’ve heard Iran makes its own unique flavor… It’s called Crusty Islamofascism.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:04 PM
Skateboarding in the halls
Hanging w/ Ludicris
Just 2 questions:
When does Hef spend the night amd when does Yobama install the stripper pole?
faol on June 20, 2009 at 9:04 PM
To make things even more absurd, Tony Hawk is 41. He’s not some stupid “kid”.
Mike Honcho on June 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM
All I can say is I pray you are right. One thing I am sure of, if the situation doesnt get bad enough when it is resolved it will not be resolved in a productive or beneficial fashion. In other words, it will just go back to business as usual with the real power brokers in Iran using the people as pawns to continue to advance their agenda.
If this turns into something good it will not be because that is how it started out. It will only be because the Ayatollah and the Mullah’s over reacted with a degree of violence that shocked a people who are already used to brutality.
doriangrey on June 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM
+1
Obama: First President to get the FemNazis to try out the Stripper Pole…
*HISTORIC*
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:06 PM
I got excited briefly when my channel show ID said “Glenn Beck.” Then I saw Jerry Rivers. Crap.
pfamis on June 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM
I know, I had similar feelings, feelings before that I felt for Israelis. People fighting for freedom, even a small increment of it, and their own survival is a heart wrenching thing.
petefrt on June 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM
^^It’s a good theory and I think you are close. However, I think it’s more likely that Khamenei, Amadinnerjacket, and the IRG are just “peas in a pod” – they like each other a lot. The big question is – “why did Mousavi get on the ballot in the first place?” We know Khamenei had to approve it – maybe he figured Amadinnerjacket would easily win anyway.
^^If Mousavi made this statement it’s the best reason I can point to as to why we SHOULD NOT back him. Under Mousavi’s tenure as Prime Minister – Iran bombed our Marines in Beirut – killing 241 American Marines. Over 144 extraterritorial asassinations carried out against enemies of the Islamic Republic. 30,000 internal political enemies eliminated.
If Mousavi is truly a reasonable dude – he’d understand intuitively why we’d suspect his motives after what we’ve seen from his Prime Ministership.
HondaV65 on June 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM
Hey, I don’t know about you, but I wish my dad were that kewl /sarc
Seriously, when will people realize that being kewl doesn’t mean acting like Tony Hawk?
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM
I saw him in a hotel lobby once with his rock star entourage. I can see why he appeals to Obama.
txmomof6 on June 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM
By my estimation, welcomed, at first, and then ripped apart after they helped and were no longer needed. That’s the general pattern out there.
progressoverpeace on June 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Man up!!
Cindy Munford on June 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM
The disconnect from reality is almost impossible to express here.
The libs are tearing this country apart over waterboarding and the Iranians are pulling young people out of operating rooms and finishing them off in basement torture chambers. It’s time to go balistic. I think most conservative commentators are starting to let loose!! ’bout time
Will this information get out via the media, human rights groups, PETA, code pink, IRC ?/
It’s up to us to risk losing some friends and family but we have to get this stuff to go viral.
katy on June 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Yes, that is one huge let down. I can barely manage to flip through his show…
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM
If only John McCain were president…dear gawd, what has this country done?
JetBoy on June 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM
TBOD theorem: There are more sad, pathetic, lonely losers using Twitter per capita than any other service.
TheBigOldDog on June 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM
I
A fact that will be conveniently ignored and/or twisted by the left
NoFanofLibs on June 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM
His daughter could have been his spokesperson.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/20/paul-begala-schools-megha_n_218469.html
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:09 PM
Think of what so often happens when a gallant young man comes across a woman being beaten in public by her husband. He rushes over to the woman’s defense only to be surprised as she attacks him because he has assaulted her husband.
doriangrey on June 20, 2009 at 9:10 PM
Yes, the young people’s shock is our hope… and theirs.
petefrt on June 20, 2009 at 9:11 PM
It won’t be forgotten. When the time comes around for the Obama Khamenei Ahmadinejad schmooze fest the photo ops are going to be priceless. The anti Obama campaign commercials alone will be reminder enough.
elduende on June 20, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Remember when in the early days of Iraqys running amuck
in the streets of Bahgdad,tasting FREEDOM,
the Liberal Left,had a caniption fit that Bush was
playing golf as well as not containing the violence!!
———————————————-
Meanwhile,back at Team Hopey/Changey,Obama is “excited
about the robust debate“ taking place in the streets of
Tehran,
and he watch`s skateboarding in the halls of the WH!!!
———————————————————-
WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE OF THE CARING AND COMPASSIONATE
LIBERAL MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on June 20, 2009 at 9:13 PM
I like Dorian’s response. I’m not betting on welcomed. If they were, it would be momentarily.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:14 PM
I just finished reading the whole thread. Wow! I understand the cynicism of a lot of the folks here, given Iran’s history and they may never change but they should at least get some points for trying. I would be very surprised if many of those out in the street have given much thought to what comes next if by some crazy chance they were to succeed. I just hope that our current administration is considering what all the options are. We didn’t do a very good job with Russia and now we have Putin, pretty close to being back to square one.
Cindy Munford on June 20, 2009 at 9:15 PM
C’mon now…his daughter speaks for him? Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UOS7zUVa94
JetBoy on June 20, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Where’s the “leader” of the US? The world wonders. Oh, he went out for ice cream. PRESENT!
GarandFan on June 20, 2009 at 9:16 PM
Me, too, Dorian. Me, too. I am just so filled with sadness tonight. A people I don’t really know being slaughtered by the truckload…
It just feels very familiar. And I hate it.
wccawa on June 20, 2009 at 9:16 PM
For some dark humor, Obama’s generally tepid response to the Iranian situation is parodied in this Onion-style piece entitled “Obama Sends Sterner Message to Iran from His Personal Blackberry, But Experts Say His Use of Emoticons ‘May Cloud Message’”: http://www.optoons.blogspot.com/ (June 19 entry)
Mervis Winter on June 20, 2009 at 9:17 PM
I would suggest that the filthy liar in the White House would have betrayed those Marines if he only sent 50 into harm’s way instead engaging the enemy like a responsible Commander-in-Chief. Not that is outside the realm of possiblity with the coward infesting the presidency.
highhopes on June 20, 2009 at 9:18 PM
How about,like the Berlin airdrop,somebody parachutes
in weapons and lots,and lots,and lots of ammunition
clips,
to even out the ahem,playing field!!(Yes,i know,wishful
thinking).
canopfor on June 20, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Tomorrow’s Sunday morning news program anouncements:
Fox & Friends – Iranian protesters take to the streets once again.
This Week with George Stephanopoulos – President Obama receives Daffy Duck Looney Tunes tie for Father’s Day.
Meet the Press – Mullah’s and Ahmadinejad order “Learn to Twitter and Blog in 1 afternoon” from the Video Professor.
yoda on June 20, 2009 at 9:18 PM
It would appear they do agree on Iran… and probably everything else.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Iranians scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream!
RightWinged on June 20, 2009 at 9:19 PM
We have a very bad track record in that part of the world. What with encouraging uprising that we don’t support and installing regimes that the natives hate. We did prop up the Shah of Iran and like it or not the Iranian people pretty much hate us to this day for it.
doriangrey on June 20, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Obama has promised a group of pro-Mullah Iranian orphans that if they behave, he’ll take them out for ice cream tomorrow.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Focusing like a laser beam on Obama’s small cup.
Loxodonta on June 20, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Meet the Press – Mullah’s and Ahmadinejad order “Learn to Twitter and Blog in 1 afternoon” from the Video Professor.
yoda on June 20, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Tooo Funny!
txmomof6 on June 20, 2009 at 9:21 PM
But of course it was small in that large sense. You know, large with scoops and scoops of ice cream that would never tarnish his moobs in anyway – and at the same time not too much.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:22 PM
Pinch me, I think I’m having a nightmare. Do I hear someone on FNC asking Al Sharpton for his opinion on Iran, or am I just hallucinating again?
Asking Sharpton about stuff like this really degrades FNC.
Sure, let’s ask Paris Hilton what she thinks about it, while we’re at it, FNC.
petefrt on June 20, 2009 at 9:22 PM
Agreed. But the message we are sending out now is not going to help. When we abandoned the Shiites at the end of Desert Storm we set a very bad precedent. If we at least stood for supporting freedom over tyrannyconsistently we would have some credibility.
dpierson on June 20, 2009 at 9:23 PM
I’ll say it again … it’s the fruit of the “Poison Tree”.
A movement with good leadership produces positive change – they produce democracies that are non-threatening and responsive to their people …
America’s Founding Fathers.
The Founders of Israel
Vaclav Havel — Czechoslovakia
Leck Walesa — Poland
(many other examples)
A movement with EVIL leadership produces negative change – they produce faux democratic institutions that are THREATENING to others and manipulative of their people …
HITLER – Germany
Chavez – Venuzuela
Khomeini – Iran
Castro – Cuba
Lenin – Russia
Mao – China
Ho Chi Min – Vietnam
(many other examples)
Which group would you put Mousavi, Khatami, and Rafsanjani in … hmmmmm?
It’s as if our side has forgotten this basic fact of life.
HondaV65 on June 20, 2009 at 9:25 PM
I think the US had a reasonable amount of credibility pre-Obama Motors. Do you think that this will somehow give us the credibility in the eyes of the world that oh so hates us?
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Come on, Al is a professional demonstrator. Who better to ask?
TheBigOldDog on June 20, 2009 at 9:25 PM
This is exactly what happens,under Liberal Leadership!
Obama only wants to straighten out,in his warped mindset
what Obama see`s as all the so-called injustices of America!
For Liberals,its about being IN POWER,and buying votes,
till the next election!!
Meanwhile THE WORLD BURNS,UP NEXT NORTH KOREA and the
SLAUGHTER OF SOUTH KOREA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on June 20, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Was that double entendre intentional, Lox?
ROTFLMAO
either orr on June 20, 2009 at 9:26 PM
Excellent post, Honda.
progressoverpeace on June 20, 2009 at 9:27 PM
+ one billion. I hate George the Elder for what he did, and always will.
wccawa on June 20, 2009 at 9:27 PM
For the good side, you forgot Gorbachev/Yeltsin/Putin/Sarc.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:27 PM
I don’t think the world hates us. Maybe the liberal media has brainwashed everyone to the degree that we take that as a truth. i have traveled extensively and most places I go the US is still liked.
dpierson on June 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Yes, several incidents come to mind, China, Russia, Poland. The problem is that Iran is a Muslim nation and it’s citizens are under the disturbingly irrational influence of Islam. I have substantial doubts that any nation under the influence of Islam can make decisions that will not eventually result in disaster.
doriangrey on June 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM
HondaV65 on June 20, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Maybe just maybe the people, if they succeed in overthrowing the regime that stole their election, will elect a different leader once they get a taste of real freedom.
txmomof6 on June 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM
To be fair, it is hard to come up with live coverage on a Saturday night of a story that nobody had and inkling was going to be going in this direction. The call list has netted the usual media whores.
I mean, really- Al Sharpton, Mike Huckabee, Wesley Clark, Rick Santorum, and Geraldo sitting around and talking about Iran??? Could there possibly be a lamer group of b-listers to form a panel?
highhopes on June 20, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Absolutely. In her book, Reading Lolita in Tehran, Azar Nafisi wrote about the same thing happening in 1980-81, when the Islamic regime was cracking down on dissenters. The wounded were arrested, and the bodies of the dead disappeared. She wrote about the students going to the hospitals, trying to prevent the dead and wounded from being taken by the government’s guards. Excellent book, by the way.
mbs on June 20, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Yes. Al Sharpton and Gen. Wesley Clark interviewed by Jerry Rivers. Good thing The Outlaw Josie Wales is on.
pfamis on June 20, 2009 at 9:30 PM
small cup…..
Loxodonta on June 20,2009 at 9:20PM.
Loxondonta:
You mean,Hopey`s cup,that contain`s the family jewels
in his supportive jock-strap!! Ahem,hehe:)
canopfor on June 20, 2009 at 9:30 PM
I’m gonna post this every day. At least.
Tell me people don’t make a difference.
wccawa on June 20, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Gorbachev never intended what happened in the USSR. It was merely the uninteneded consequences of his actions, that he did not even come close to foreseeing. That was evident as he tried to hold onto power and keep the Soviet Union intact as it was all crashing down. Gorbachev stumbled into his place in history, mostly forced to go there by American actions rather than choosing to be the freedom fighter of the Soviets.
progressoverpeace on June 20, 2009 at 9:31 PM
Allahpundit: You have been doing ALPHA blogging on today’s events in Iran. Thank you.
Loxodonta on June 20, 2009 at 9:32 PM
It’s as if some on “our side” have forgotten, or never knew, something much more fundamental than that.
MB4 on June 20, 2009 at 9:32 PM
I suspect that is the subtext that is slowly emerging. This is no longer about which state-approved thug is president. It has gone beyond that. The elections were merely a rallying point for a far more dramatic shift in the Iranian government. What is unclear at this point is precisely what that preferred end-state is.
highhopes on June 20, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Well, in the words of a liberal, “maybe hate is too strong a word.”
1) Many of my American co-workers have a large degree of disgust for our country.
2) The Japanese that I’ve met despise much of American culture.
3) The Europeans that I’ve encountered I prefer to stay away from (scary, scary people)…
4) South Americans are still pissy over our help for Thatcher in the Falkland Islands…
5) The Palestinians that I know keep b*tching about the American Zionist conspiracy.
Seriously, the most “positive” pro-American foreigners that I’ve met are usually Taiwanese and Chinese (ironic).
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:33 PM
The problem with that is that you never think these people are what they turn out to be. I think that is our biggest problem, we are incapable of thinking like they do. To this very day I can’t believe nineteen people hijacked airplanes and flew them into occupied buildings. I know it happened but I can’t fathom the mind who would come up with such a plan. And I can fathom the minds of people who say we should have known.
Cindy Munford on June 20, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Woot woot +1
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water!
MB4 on June 20, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Oops. here’s the link.
wccawa on June 20, 2009 at 9:34 PM
I took Jack for a walk to the liquor store instead ;)
Ugly on June 20, 2009 at 9:34 PM
100% Agreed. The most comprehensive reporting on this situation there is out there.
JetBoy on June 20, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Agreed. That’s my whole point. The left paints him (not Reagan) as some hero… Yeah, maybe he was more “liberal” (I prefer to say he saw the writing on the wall) than his predecessors, but clearly not enough… We then got Yeltsin (ehhh)… And then back to Putin.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Agreed. I don’t always agree with you, AP, but your coverage on this has been epic.
Ugly on June 20, 2009 at 9:35 PM
I officially feel sorry for her right now and hope she has learned her lesson. She’s not ready for this type of encounter.
Cindy Munford on June 20, 2009 at 9:36 PM
We DIDN’T prop up the Shaw..”we” DESPOSED the Shaw(who was a moderate) and installed the radical islamist Ayatollah Khomeniei.
BTW this “we” actually was Zbignew Brezinski (the man behind Carter) and WHO RIGHT NOW IS THE MAN BEHIND OBAMA!
MaximusConfessor on June 20, 2009 at 9:36 PM
A better idea. Is Jack a puppy? I want a dog.
Cindy Munford on June 20, 2009 at 9:36 PM
I dunno, TBOD, the way it’s going nowadays, in the polls Sharpton may be considered a moderate in a year or two.
After that, criticizing people of his ilk will be hate speech, punishable by law. Just following in Euro footsteps, about 2013.
petefrt on June 20, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Yes… We all learn from our mistakes. Maybe she will from hers.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:37 PM
The problem is that they need a whole new system of government. What they have now doesn’t even qualify as a government of any rational sort. But this is what happens with revolts from the street, there is no system waiting to function. They can’t vote for anyone because there is nothing to vote for. The council of mullahs would have to go. The council of experts, … They would have to install a whole new system of government. But when the ruling government falls, someone must rule in some structure. It is highly unlikely that that structure would be anything approaching decent and highly unlikely that those in charge of that structure, in the aftermath of the chaos and disintegration fo the current governing system, would be looking to have votes for anything. Iran’s only chance would be to have some outside force helping in that difficult transition, but that takes either total strength to force it on the people or tons of planning before this all occurs. Neither of those are possibilities. This is why the easiest transition would be to military rule and then to building a new governing structure. But militaries in that part of the world never really like to give up power. One possibility is to bring the Shah’s kid in and set him up, but that ain’t happening, either.
progressoverpeace on June 20, 2009 at 9:38 PM
1. Yes, self-loathing is a major part of the liberal make up
2. Japanese despise every other culture than theirs
3. Depends on the Europeans, they are happy that we do the fighting for them but go to Poland or Eastern Europe and you get a different opinion
4. Only in Argentina. People in Brazil seem to have a positive attitude about America
5. Who cares about them?
Go to Africa and talk to people, they still have that glimmer in their eyes when they talk about someday hoping to come to America. We still do stand for something, don’t let the libs convince you otherwise.
dpierson on June 20, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Whao…. Hey Allapundit, Ed which one of you allowed Alex Jones to register???
doriangrey on June 20, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Nobody is saying Mossavi is the second coming of Walesa or Havel. But, there are distinct advantages to giving him support. First, there’s a distinct possibility that the Kohmenei mullahcracy can be broken. That’s a good thing in itself. Second, you can negotiate terms with Moussavi for offering him support. Since, he is in a precarious position he’d be willing to trade. Whether Moussavi is a promising candidate or not,at this point, only the overthrow of Khomenei regime can stop nuclearization of Iran. Of course, a lot of diplomatic work would need to be done but that’s par the course. Nobody is expecting miracles overnight.
promachus on June 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
No doubt…also, AllahP and Jim Treacher have been rocking twitter hard all day too.
AUINSC on June 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Maybe – but before that happens – they’ll have to throw off the yoke of Islamic rule and return to secular government. Do you think they are up to it? I don’t.
My belief is that these people are still infected with Islamo-fascism. And before they’ll be over it – they will have to see many more of their families and friends burned by the Islamo-fascists.
If they come to power too easily – you’ll see only cosmetic changes in the Islamic Republic. Mousavi says he’s willing to become a martyr – and I’d like to see it given his history of brutality and blood. Make him a martyr and maybe the people will choose a George Washington.
But Mousavi isn’t him.
HondaV65 on June 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Question: With Netenyahu in charge of Israel, while Tehran is currently bedlam, isn’t this the perfect time for Israel to nail Iran’s nukes?
MadisonConservative on June 20, 2009 at 9:40 PM
My misunderstanding. I got it now, Upstater.
Oh! That /Sarc was your sarc tag. For some reason I thought you had stuffed Sarkozy in there – though I couldn’t figure out why. Oy! I’m getting too tired.
progressoverpeace on June 20, 2009 at 9:41 PM
We did both.
dpierson on June 20, 2009 at 9:41 PM
He turned five of our human years last month (which would make him 35, I guess)… and you can NOT have him :P
Ugly on June 20, 2009 at 9:41 PM
I don`t think the world hates us.
dpierson on June 20,2009 at 9:28PM.
dpierson:
Just to let you know,on CoastoCoast last night,a fellow
Canadian called in,and went to town,on the 911 conspiracy
crap,the Obama administration,and how dangerous Obama
was in his handling of foreign affairs,and how he was sick
and tired of the Hate America Crowd!!!
The more this Liberal Leadership,keeps F/$%$%?&&*& up,
it shows the Liberal Party`s true colours!!!:)
canopfor on June 20, 2009 at 9:41 PM
It’s St. Olaf/RedPill.
Get ready for a hailstorm of horseshit.
MadisonConservative on June 20, 2009 at 9:41 PM
I think Bibi will hold off to see what happens…even though will probably keep the program, no matter what.
AUINSC on June 20, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Whoops… meant for Cindy:
Ugly on June 20, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Ugly on June 20, 2009 at 9:42 PM
In-f’ing-deed.
Top notch work.
MadisonConservative on June 20, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Such as it was, so shall it be:
Well should we remember these words when others fight for freedom, and our own government place too onerous a tax upon us. It is the right of all men to be free of overbearing, authoritarian government that seeks to take all your liberty, freedom, and welfare from you in the name of doing any good, or any service be it to man or God.
Such as it was, so shall it be.
We are, again, in the times of Paine.
ajacksonian on June 20, 2009 at 9:42 PM
Sorry, meant to say:
I think Bibi will hold off to see what happens…even though Iran will probably keep the program, no matter what.
AUINSC on June 20, 2009 at 9:43 PM
HondaV65 on June 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
As long as there is some hope even unlikely that they might, it should not be dismissed, but encouraged. Things are happening very fast, you never know.
txmomof6 on June 20, 2009 at 9:44 PM
That they do…
I’ve been informed that the “real” Europeans live in the western part of the continent… give you one guess who “informed” me of this.
No, not just Argentina. Venezuela and her cronies. The only reason Chile doesn’t embrace this view is because they like (and liked) to upset Argentina. They are still blaming us for Pinochet, though.
Apparently Obama and the entire American left.
Gotta give Bush a lot of credit here.
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Blake in 5..4..3..
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:45 PM
Not to be picky,but its SHAH!!!!!
canopfor on June 20, 2009 at 9:45 PM
True. The former was to save Iran from falling to the Soviets. Lots of less than palatable decisions made on account of the Communist Menace.
Maquis on June 20, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Weird. I was totally thinking how Sarc might be an abbreviation for Sarkozy…
Upstater85 on June 20, 2009 at 9:46 PM
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