Video: Sotomayor explains how men subconsciously discriminate
posted at 4:05 pm on June 19, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Greg Hengler has this interesting but relatively unsurprising clip of Sonia Sotomayor explaining in 1986 the difficulties women face in male-dominated professions, such as the law, as Sotomayor claimed on Good Morning America. The clip comes from a round-table discussion by successful women on the hurdles they faced in succeeding in a man’s world. Mostly, it’s standard boilerplate, except curiously for Sotomayor’s complaint about dating:
Honestly, I don’t find her description of the mechanism of bias all that surprising or objectionable. Certainly, people internalize their own experiences and rely on them when making subjective decisions on hiring and promotion; in a more positive context, it’s called instinct, and any good hiring manager has to rely on it. In 1986, I’d agree that the women’s movement had yet to overcome that built-in bias in hiring and promotions, but that’s changed in the last 23 years as women moved upwards. “Images of success” are as female as male now, and as ethnically diverse, too.
But the complaint about dating I find strange. If a woman tells a man she’s too busy to see him three times, should she be surprised when he stops calling? If he kept calling, some would define that as stalking. Sotomayor endorses a remarkably passive role in this instance, because the solution to this problem would have been to suggest another day on the schedule when declining an invite.
Blowback
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I’m going to add this subject to my list of topics to stay away from here.
ProfessorMiao on June 19, 2009 at 6:24 PM
let me see—work late or go home to that—-i’ll work late and fly all over the place
rjoco1 on June 19, 2009 at 6:24 PM
Tell me, do you think that people should react the same way to seeing teenage boys beat each other up as they do to teenage girls beating each other up (assuming the same sorts of beatings) or does one seem a bit more unnatural than the other?
Do you believe that hormonal schedules have anything to do with behavior and specific mental/emotional functioning?
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 6:31 PM
Sure, it’s fun to laugh at 80′s fashion – I mean, that was an entire decade of fashion hell. However, I’m not laughing at the insinuation that women today generally only get ahead because of affirmative action – and that as a sex we’ve done nothing to advance mankind (other than give birth, I suppose).
Anna on June 19, 2009 at 6:31 PM
I’ve been witness to more girl-fights than boy-fights, and yeah, we should react the same way – break the damn fight up. Girls are more vicious and aggressive than I believe you’re giving them credit for – and yes, I believe that’s inherent to our nature. Times have changed enough that we don’t have to keep it all inside anymore.
Anna on June 19, 2009 at 6:34 PM
This is true in every field. One of the biggest obstacles I still face today is the fact that I simply do not have the same credibility that a man in my position is automatically granted. Why? Affirmative Action.
I got a job as a technician fair and square by passing the same test the men had to take. But the test was changed to make it easier, and a lot of women came into the job. Dumb women. Today the job of a tech is pretty much nothing more than a clerical job.
I thank my lucky stars for those women who were the true pioneers of equal rights for women because they worked to get me the same opportunity as men. But Equal Opportunity became Affirmative Action and that pretty much made everything I worked for seem to be handed to me because I was a woman.
In 1992 I was scheduled to take another test to become a rated technician. It was an oral exam that was notorious for being difficult to pass. But it meant better job security and a raise in pay. I studied for it for over a year. The day before I was set to go to Boston to take it a male coworker of mine said to me “Oh, you’re a woman so they’ll give it to you”.
Great.
Well, I didn’t pass it. I did so bad on it that I flunked out at 11AM. It was supposed to be an all day test. My union rep, who went with me, and I left the office and headed to the nearest bar. Oh. I crashed and burned on that test.
But you know what? My humiliation at flunking that test was more than offset by my co-worker having to eat his words. No, they didn’t just “give it to me” because I was a woman. After I flunked it I heard many funny stories from my male colleagues who had also flunked it the first time. It was a hard test.
I went back a year later and I aced it. I have never been more proud of myself before or since. But I know that there are many people who don’t know I flunked it the first time that think I didn’t earn it. But I know it.
Jaynie59 on June 19, 2009 at 6:38 PM
So, are you saying that you don’t believe that testosterone levels affect aggression? Because, if you look at physical aggression in males and females the same way then you must totally discount the idea that testosterone has anything to do with physical aggression.
You are aware that most scientists believe that our hormonal schedules determine the bulk of our personalities?
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 6:39 PM
Yes, affirmative action taints the accomplishments of those, in the specified group, who have truly earned them.
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 6:41 PM
Oh, no, I totally understand that testosterone levels affect aggression. And women can have elevated levels of testosterone, which can make them more aggressive too (and more hairy!). I don’t look at the biological causes for aggression in the same way – you asked about reaction. I’d react in the same way. I also don’t find aggression in either sex to be unnatural at all. It may stem from different roots, but it’s in both sexes nonetheless.
Anna on June 19, 2009 at 6:44 PM
I do defend Palin. And it isn’t because she’s physically attractive and I like the way she dresses.
ProfessorMiao on June 19, 2009 at 6:46 PM
Okay. My reactions to the two situations are quite different. I find girls (normal girls, not hairy ones)beating each other up, as if they were boys, to be revolting and highly unnatural. I would suspect that most feel that way, but perhaps I’m just a throwback.
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 6:49 PM
I do defend Palin. And it isn’t because she’s physically attractive and I like the way she dresses.
ProfessorMiao on June 19, 2009 at 6:46 PM
I guess your perfect then. Would you defend comments about how unattractive Henry Waxman is?
hmfearny on June 19, 2009 at 6:51 PM
I agree with you 100%. Affirmative action has helped the incompetent and damaged the competent. I would go farther, though, and say that rather than help to get rid of sexism it has provided the excuse to entrench it. At least for some.
ProfessorMiao on June 19, 2009 at 6:52 PM
You’re not a girl.
Girls fight dirty and it has nothing to do with testosterone levels.
Jaynie59 on June 19, 2009 at 6:53 PM
I never said or insinuated that women today generally only get ahead because of affirmative action. About 50% of my colleagues are female lawyers, and, for the vast majority of them (and me), affirmative action had absolutely nothing to do with their and my success.
Callie C. on June 19, 2009 at 6:53 PM
No.
ProfessorMiao on June 19, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Callie C.,
Oh yeah, jokes about someone’s appearance are hilarious–if you’re 14. I could care less about Sotomayers’s appearance. I’m more concerned about how she’s going to interpret the law, particularly with regards to abortion and gun rights.
drflykilla on June 19, 2009 at 6:55 PM
You’re no Kreskin, but pretending is fun, isn’t it? Maybe next week you’ll advance to finger-painting.
Now, let me help you out a little. I am a Republican. I am a non-white Republican, which pretty much means that your words are foreplay compared to what I been called. The liberals who discriminate harshly against minority republicans are as off base in their allegations as you are in yours.
I believe the Republican Party to be the party of the US Constitution and capitalism. Dems are the party of big government and blank checks.
That being said, I expect more from my side, not less. Sexism is an easily recognizable offense Just think about how you likely feel every time someone takes an unwarranted swipe at Governor Palin.
Oh yeah. Thank you for the update from your stellar system.
The Race Card on June 19, 2009 at 6:55 PM
Not a throwback, just of a different generation perhaps – I’m young, and growing up, a lot of the girls aspired to be just like the guys. Sometimes, that even translated into fighting and bullying (I was on the recieving end). Like I mentioned before, I think we’ve come to a point where girls are no longer afraid of being openly physically aggressive. I suppose that can be seen as a bad thing – I’d rather channel that physical aggression into something more positive, like working/studying harder to be at the top.
Anna on June 19, 2009 at 6:56 PM
You didn’t. Someone else did. I don’t recall you making any personal insults about Sotomayor either – I was under the impression that we were both talking about the thread in general.
Anna on June 19, 2009 at 6:58 PM
I understand, but girls are not guys. That is a fact of biology. That’s my point.
It’s not that they’re no longer afraid, but that they are doing what they think makes them more like guys. They are imitating their ideas of what a guy is and does. It is very contrived and quite strange.
That is the better route and there is nothing unnatural about this.
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 7:01 PM
But don’t put too much effort into it, Anna, because very few women really excel in their fields. Most are just mediocre because they didn’t invent law, or medicine, or whatever.
/sarc.
The sun’s setting so I’m out of here.
ProfessorMiao on June 19, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Not all girls that fight are trying to be like guys, though, so I can’t call it contrived. Some actually like to fight, and don’t care how masculine it makes them look.
Unless there’s a biological reason why girls should not fight, I’ll never consider it unnatural (but I fully acknowledge that the root cause can be and is different than why males fight). But I can see why one would find it unsettling.
Anna on June 19, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Heh. Back to the kitchen I go!
Anna on June 19, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Men routinely kill other men in fights. That’s pretty “dirty”.
venividivici on June 19, 2009 at 8:02 PM
Poor poor Sotomayor. Couldn’t get a date, couldn’t get ahead without affirmative action. Maybe, honey, you should have tried to be a WOMAN and get a date, and then used your BRAINS to get ahead. If that didn’t work, then maybe those things are just beyond you.
Nobody has a God-given right to be a judge. Maybe you should have learned to do what you are good at rather than what you thought you were entitled to.
I’m a woman, married with kid, graduated from grad school in ’85, and a registered architect (man’s profession). I paid my own way through school, and I earn a fair wage for my labors.
It ain’t rocket science, unless that’s what you are good at. I’m just sayin’.
tcn on June 19, 2009 at 8:17 PM
You’ve been drinking haven’t you? You know the old saying, what’s the difference between a Fox and a Dog? About 6 beers.
TheBigOldDog on June 19, 2009 at 8:23 PM
Shut up..
How did this dingbat get through law school???
oh yea if your a NON white RACIST its
A OK ..
Sheesh
obamination
obamenomics
obamaracism.
whats next..
veteranoutrage on June 19, 2009 at 8:29 PM
SHe had all the right qualifications: Female Hispanic from NYC.
TheBigOldDog on June 19, 2009 at 8:32 PM
Sorry, late to the party, but this comment made me laugh. Yes, Obama will soon appoint a Matchmaking Czar. Problem solved.
Constance on June 19, 2009 at 8:38 PM
You can take comfort in the knowledge that we’re doing it sub-conciously (sp..tough day); we’re not aware we’re doing it. It’s not our fault.
Being male and all that.
BobMbx on June 19, 2009 at 8:42 PM
The amusing thing to me is that this supposedly liberated woman couldn’t do the obvious thing, which is call that guy she turned down three straight times and let him know that she’s available, say, next Friday.
Brainster on June 19, 2009 at 9:29 PM
I wonder if Barry called her “Sweetie” when he invited her up to the WH for a chat.
I’m guessing the real reason he nominated her isn’t her politics: it’s that Michelle insisted that the only women who could get the nod had to be uglier than she is.
guntotinglibertarian on June 19, 2009 at 9:29 PM
Was she naked underneath her robe? Wow, so much for my appetite.
tbear44 on June 19, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Not true.
Boys have rules when fighting. When it’s over it’s over. Girls will gouge each others eyes out and then hold a grudge for the rest of their lives and get their other girl friends to take sides.
I’ve worked with all men crews and in all women offices and I would rather work with men any day. Women are horrible to each other. I’ve never worked with women who didn’t single out at least one other woman for ridicule and shunning. The prettier the other woman, the more she was hated.
Jaynie59 on June 19, 2009 at 9:39 PM
Too bad I’ve read the posts you’ve made on this site for a long time. You are as Republican as John McCain and Olympia Snowe.
Here’s a tip for a lousy astroturfer like you: real conservatives don’t reflexly proclaim their allegiances, they boast in them. Real cons don’t run crying into the big, comfy arms of racism, classism, and feminism in defense of a racist, sexist she-thing like Sotomayor, and they certainly don’t need to ask what an “A.A. Baby” is.
TMK on June 19, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Sotomanure to the highest court, parley-voo?
Sotomanure to the highest court, parley-voo?
She has a foul temper and spews such a crock
On her la Raza has a full head lock
She could beg a peso, a drink, a meal
But it wasn’t because of sex appeal
If she changes her underwear
The frogs will give her the Croix-de-Guerre
She has so many delusions it would make Freud’s knees knock
And her face would stop a cuckoo clock
You might forget her racist chant and sexist yell
But you’ll never forget the nominee from Hell
Hinky, dinky, parley-voo
InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on June 19, 2009 at 10:18 PM
ROFL
tbear44 on June 19, 2009 at 10:32 PM
Hmmm, interesting.. Maybe that’s why Fwank don’t like women.
tbear44 on June 19, 2009 at 10:45 PM
I like her because she added $1200 to our PFD checks last year even though everyone cried and told her not to do it (Oblama: THAT is how you stimulate an economy). Thanx Sarah! Alaska rocks! And so do you!
tbear44 on June 19, 2009 at 11:07 PM
I wasn’t being metaphorical when I said guys kill other guys in fights. Read the newspapers and count up the number of men killed in fights versus the number of women. Holding a grudge or shunning someone is hardly the same as killing someone.
Also, ask the least well-integrated or “beta” male on those work crews how his life is. Ever seen a woman take a p*ss on another woman after beating the crap out of her? I’ve seen that happen to guys by other guys.
venividivici on June 19, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Well now we know why the Whiner in chief selected her.
DSchoen on June 19, 2009 at 11:59 PM
Don’t you actually have to BE a woman to comment on what it’s like to get through life as one. Look at the top of the page.
There’s a T Mobile ad featuring Catherine Zeta Jones. Whether or not you like her politics, you can easily identifier as a woman. (Not hard a on the eyes at all) This Sotomayor,I haven’t a clue what it is.
Jeff from WI on June 20, 2009 at 6:19 AM
What caught my eye was the Dow/Nasdaq ticker.
The numbers were almost exactly the same as today’s numbers. Except then, the economy was on it’s way up.
See what scared me?
Squiggy on June 20, 2009 at 6:48 AM
Kim Jong-Il called Obama, laughing. He told him:”Barry,you pick real dog for Supreme Court. She well beaten with ugly stick.
Jeff from WI on June 20, 2009 at 7:03 AM
Men? There are men left? Well we must put a stop to that.
johnnyU on June 20, 2009 at 8:50 AM
I didn’t watch the vid, did she admit to being gay?
la.rt.wngr on June 20, 2009 at 9:14 AM
Where did she get those glasses? Is Buzzie Ginsberg missing a pair. I think she made the story up about a man calling her 3 times unless it was closing time.
Kissmygrits on June 20, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Damn, that woman could stop a clock.
GunRunner on June 20, 2009 at 12:03 PM
What you fail to understand is that in the Age of Empathy, if this guy does not also have a job he places above all other life considerations because the job represents the ability to empower minorities above their oppressors, then he wont understand why she is buy for 3 times in a row and is therefore undeserving of her time to begin with.
FeFe on June 20, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Does this person appear to be of Supreme Court Caliber to everyone or am I simply suffering from that of which she speaks? Hmmm. I am a male and I am white so I guess I have no politically correct avenue available for critiquing this particular nominee without being labeled sexist or racist. So does this mean that in certain areas I have no legitimate right to offering an oppinion?
Geez, I don’t remember feeling this way about Sandra Day O’Conner. I guess that means I can limit myself to just being a racist.
(did I spell Critiguing right? It doesn’t look right and my dictionary doesn’t display that form of the word)
Ernest on June 20, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Subconscious? I’d have to be unconscious! Three bagger. One for her, one for you and one for the window in case there’s a peeping Tom.
johnnyU on June 20, 2009 at 8:07 PM
I never had all of that much interest in lesbians anyway.
LarryG on June 20, 2009 at 10:33 PM
Seeing people like this pig Sotomayer, I now know why my attitude about women is so poor.What disgusting freak she is.
Jeff from WI on June 21, 2009 at 8:10 AM
Well, I worked for the phone company and not a drug cartel or street gang, so I’ve never seen any man piss on anybody. The last fist fight I saw was in junior high, and trust me, the girls were much more violent than the boys. The boys would dance around each other until maybe one punch was thrown and it was over. The girls would be rolling around on the ground pulling each others hair out.
Your comment about the new guy does apply to my work situation, however. Any new guy on a crew gets tested. Practical jokes. Messing with their tools. Comes with being the new guy. Men are good natured about it. Women? Ugh. Cry-baby shrills.
I had to go to a two day conference for “Women in Technology” once. It was torture. I was never so embarrassed for my gender as I was those two days. They had a seminar on “Sexual Harrassment” and I had to sit there for 3 hours and listen to a bunch of whingy women complain about every perceived slight they “endured”.
The simple fact of human nature is this: once someone knows something bothers you, they will go out of their way to do it to you. Try it if you don’t believe me. Tell 5 people that you hate whistling and I will bet that within a week 4 out of the 5 will whistle in front of you. These women were complaining about things that, if they had just reacted differently, would never been an issue at all. And nobody likes a snitch.
I can count the number of men who gave me a hard time on 3 fingers of one hand. The truth is that most of the problems I’ve had being taken seriously were from other women.
Jaynie59 on June 21, 2009 at 9:24 AM
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