Barone: The President who Fell to Earth from the Sky
posted at 10:55 am on June 19, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
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Michael Barone reviews the latest polling on Barack Obama and his policies, and comes to the consensus opinion that the honeymoon has ended. Despite his high personal ratings after five months on the job, Obama has increasing resistance to the policies he’s championed. Overall, Obama’s biggest problem is that people don’t trust government — and he may not be helping matters. Barone points to the following indicators, among others:
● 69% say they have a great deal or quite a bit of concern about government ownership of General Motors and a 56%-35% majority opposes government aid to General Motors in return for a share of its stock
● 58% say the president and Congress should concentrate on keeping the budget deficit down, even if it takes longer for the economy to recover
● by a 52%-41% margin they prefer reducing the budget deficit to stimulating the economy
● only 30% think Obama has developed a clear plan for dealing with the budget deficit, while 60% believe he hasn’t
His conclusion? Get ready for political turbulence:
These results suggest a larger point, that despite the financial crisis and current economic distress, there has not been a drastic shift in American voters’ views of the balance between the market and government. The economic failures of the 1930s and successes of the 1940s convinced Americans to trust government more and markets less; the economic failures of the 1970s and successes of the 1980s convinced Americans to trust markets more and government less. These results show that American voters remain suspicious of centralized government power over the private sector and that they have great unease about the enormous far-larger-than-Bush’s budget deficits which experts project the Obama programs will produce.
If Obama’s big-government solutions succeed, then that would change this dynamic, a bet Obama will clearly lose. The $800 billion Porkulus has not deflected the upward trajectory of unemployment in the slightest, despite his economic team’s worthless projections in January. Obama himself now admits that unemployment will blow into double digits this summer, when he promised that the stimulus package would prevent it from rising to 8.8%. That will not build confidence in big-government solutions.
Health-care reform and cap-and-trade are two other areas where Obama risks credibility. It doesn’t take a math whiz or an economist to know that spending as much as $4 trillion to overhaul the private market health care sector seems rather stupid while the government faces an entitlement crisis in Medicare. Most people will wonder why reform doesn’t start by fixing the government-run portion of the industry first. As people learn more about the costs and implications of government control of energy production, they will wonder why this big-government push exists to impose a plan that will kill economic growth in the short, medium, and long terms.
Obama’s ratings were always going to come down to reality, and this is exactly what has happened. If he continues to roll the dice on big government — and loses — expect those ratings to come down a lot more, even the personal ratings.
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What does g0tmylifeback say? Has she been 86′d already?
daesleeper on June 19, 2009 at 11:48 AM
He may be the last black liberal…but a black conservative would be able to win.
right2bright on June 19, 2009 at 11:49 AM
I would say this goes back to his childhood. He was probably a mama’s boy and was always told how special he was and had no father to balance his mother’s smothering. As he grew older, he was able to deflect criticism and get what he wanted with a quick wit and flashy smile. O’Reilly had one of those people on when he interviewed Obama that analyzed his movements, etc. and he was always reaching forward to try to convince O’Reilly of what he was saying.
Mr_Magoo on June 19, 2009 at 11:49 AM
I like my congressman also but both senators are losers even though I have one from each party.
Cindy Munford on June 19, 2009 at 11:49 AM
We do, it’s called the Libertarian party.
MarkTheGreat on June 19, 2009 at 11:52 AM
I knew a man, Objangles, and he danced for me
In worn out new deal shoes.
With short hair, flashy shoes and fancy pants,
The old new deal soft shoe.
He tap danced so high, tap danced so high, then he lightly touched down.
I met him in a ward in Chicago, I was
So down and out.
He looked to be the Messiah of the Age,
As he spoke right out.
He talked of hope, he talked of change.
But then he laughed and just clicked heels instead.
Mister Objangles
Mister Objangles
Mister Objangles
Dance!
MB4 on June 19, 2009 at 11:53 AM
50% of nothing is still nothing.
MarkTheGreat on June 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM
I &%$@*( HATE that picture on the front page.
I’ve visited Metropolis, IL, taken a picture of my dog under that statue, and will be taking the boys there this summer.
I HATE seeing that jug-eared weasel inserting himself there.
snickelfritz on June 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Thank you sir.While it does seem like I’m attacking 100% of the female gender, I do know that there’s probably about 20% of women that can use logic, and therefor are conservative.My wife is a perfect example.I also must admit, that there’s a huge number of “girlie men” in this country that’ll act “feminine” and vote Democrat. Chris Mathews being a poster child. My point being, I know conservative women that’ll agree with me that, as a nation, we’d be better off if women never could of voted.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM
Well, you probably already know the answer but it is not about providing healthcare. It is about control and eliminating the elderly by denying them care under the “they are too sick for it to help” premise. The more they die off, the the fewer collect SS and Medicare which is the only way they can hope to save those two programs. People are living way too long and sucking too much in health care costs for these programs to be viable anymore.
Mr_Magoo on June 19, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Speaking the mid-terms I hope the GOP doesn’t get full control of the House because it will force O to move to the middle and possibly reelection. Remember 1994 and Clinton. We haven’t see the full exstent of the spending yet. Wait to late fall or early next year when the real sh!t hits the fan.
Clyde5445 on June 19, 2009 at 11:45 AM
.
Obama is not Clinton. First, let us take the house back in 2010. We’ll build on that and then move forward. Americans already know or will eventualy figure out that this bastage is a campaign panderer the Nth degree.
Americannodash on June 19, 2009 at 11:56 AM
JiangxiDad on June 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM
Yeah, hell, if Justice Thomas wanted to make a run for the Oval Office I’d vote for him in a heartbeat.
Ryan Gandy on June 19, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Priceless! Thanks for that!
OldEnglish on June 19, 2009 at 11:59 AM
We have a great black conservative candidate that will be running for Senate in 2010. He is our Texas railroad commissioner Michael Williams. I was also impressed with OK. rep JC Watts until he left office.
Next item. People always vote their pocketbooks. The porkulus spending bill that is nothing more than thank you “C” notes to supporters which will drag the economy further down.
There will be alot more pain. And, one can only hope the damage is not irreversable.
HoustonRight on June 19, 2009 at 12:00 PM
Me too. In a funny way, Barry has now made it easier for anyone to become President. Those who think they’re not good enough to run no longer will think that, and the voters will find almost anyone better than Obama by comparison. I’d even take Biden over Obama. At least our enemies wouldn’t have the slightest idea what we’d do about anything.
JiangxiDad on June 19, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Many years ago, I had a friend who liked to say, “The worst mistake we ever made was letting women vote.” At the time, I laughed but thought it was harsh. The older I get, though, and the more I see the likes of Clinton and Obama and their blatant appeals to women . . .
Apologies to all right-thinking women.
Also, I finally saw the fly-swatting incident last night. What struck me the most: the haughty, “damn, I’m cool” look on Obama’s face, followed by “That was pretty impressive, wasn’t it?”
This narcissistic egomaniac makes Bill Clinton look like the picture of humility.
tsj017 on June 19, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Heh, been saying that for months!
I’m ashamed to admit I voted for Carter. But his gross incompetence and failed presidency forced me to research and learn as much as I could about the various political ideologies and I am still at it today.
I am also a conservative. I always was. Carter just had slick attractive marketing and the propaganda networks with him and I was ignorant.
I fixed that. I really hope Bozo Hussein wakes up a lot more zombie class citizens and turns them into objective critical thinkers.
Carter actually helped to fuel the Reagen landslide as John Adams fueled the Jefferson win.
dogsoldier on June 19, 2009 at 12:05 PM
“Experience: That most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.”
–C.S. Lewis
Rae on June 19, 2009 at 12:10 PM
TGIF Week In Review “Tipping Points”
http://youhavetobethistalltogoonthisride.blogspot.com/2009/06/tgif-circus-life-tipping-points-not.html
Dr Evil on June 19, 2009 at 12:11 PM
No. The only solution is to work towards impeachment as soon as possible. Obama is clearly and consciously working on dissembling and destroying this country from the inside out through piling on trillions upon trillions to the deficit,destroying our currency etc. He is a very bad man and the media is covering for him. Even if people are changing their opinion of him, the media will continue to cover for him and obsfucate the truth.
MaximusConfessor on June 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM
That must explain why the Democrats were willing to work with Bush to reform Social Security after the 2004 election. Such changes were talked about during the election, and Bush won.
Oh, you say that such logic only works when the Democrat wins? Sorry, got confused for a minute.
MarkTheGreat on June 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM
After being a libertarian party activist for 15 years, I can tell you, it’s somewhat less useful than teats on a boar.
Join the republican party and work to make it better, because there is really really no alternative.
Rebar on June 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM
I would add Gov. Palin to the list. She can slice n Dice O like nobody’s business.
Clyde5445 on June 19, 2009 at 12:14 PM
If it weren’t for his ability to tar his opponents as racist Islamaphobes, he wouldn’t even have been elected.
highhopes on June 19, 2009 at 12:14 PM
There’s Still Hope In America!
Honor, Integrity, Compassion and Respect..
You just need to get away from the Beltway and Large Cities to experience them.
Remember he only got what?…52% of the vote.But how many in America didn’t feel either candidate was worth voting for? There are a lot of folks out here in Middle America that don’t agree with this Administration. 2010 is a lot closer then you think.
Eagles Dominion on June 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Only two things makes up the Ochimpy administration….
1) A bunch of amateurs who screw everything up
2) And then blame Boooooosh
Hope and Change? I think not…
Dopes and Blame…..
Dopey/Blamey
csdeven on June 19, 2009 at 12:17 PM
I understand what you mean I just don’t want the GOP to make O look to good. He can BS as the best of them. Strike that O is the KING of KINGS of BS.
Clyde5445 on June 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Yes, they can. Racism works both ways.
OldEnglish on June 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Here’s how I see the dichotomy between DER OBAMA’s high approval numbers and low policy numbers. Obama is The Cubs. Chicago fans love the cubs, but year after year after disappointed in the ‘policies’ of the cubs, ie the fact they lose.
Yet they still end up ‘voting’ for the Cubs year after year. Obama will have 20% approval numbers on the deficit by 2012, and still win a landslide.
angryed on June 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Impeachment isn’t going to work for a couple reasons.
First, at least until 2010, the Democrats own Congress. Nancy Pelosi will not bring the charges against her own party leader. No matter what, the Democrats will defend this worthless pile of garbage.
Secondly, President Joe Biden. Enough said.
Third, Unless there is a singular impeachment-worthy event in which case my first point my be overcome by the circumstances, any attempt at ousting the bastard will be portrayed as vindictive racist behavior and most likely backfire on those leading the charge.
In my opinion it is far better to merely keep an up-to-date list of all the things Obama has done in order to get the indictments right when his corruption crosses the line and the man finds himself with criminal charges and not just popularity numbers to worry about.
highhopes on June 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM
He doesn’t care. If necessary he will create a national crisis to seize indefinite power. If that isn’t necessary before the next elections in 2010, acorn will have a death grip on the electoral process by that point and power will never shift.
peacenprosperity on June 19, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Another problem with that thought is that we honestly didn’t have a good candidate in ‘96. Of course, out of the whole bunch, let’s see, Forbes, Buchanan, Dole, Wilson, and I forget who else, I doubt any of them would have beat Clinton at that time.
‘Cuda willing, we WILL have a candidate in ‘12 who can bring it home!
JamesLee on June 19, 2009 at 12:22 PM
MarkTheGreat on June 19, 2009 at 12:22 PM
I’m waiting until they start pollng what percentage of Americans think The Precedent is a traitor who wants to destroy the US.
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 12:27 PM
It’s the big lie technique in action.
70 years after the fact, most people still blame Hoover for the Depression, even though the vast majority of economists blame Roosevelt for it.
MarkTheGreat on June 19, 2009 at 12:27 PM
In a syndicated column in mid-March 2008, Walter Williams, a black columnist, said much the same thing. His point was that blacks needed to have a Jackie Robinson break the color line and that Obama was no Jackie Robinson.
Someone above said that a black conservative could win, and I don’t disagree, but I hope we learn our lesson that no candidate this radical and this liberal, regardless of color or gender, should ever hold a position of significant responsibility in this country ever again.
BuckeyeSam on June 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM
I agree with the appeal to women comments, I cannot agree with this. There are probably just as many uninformed, easily-swayed male voters as female. Listen to “the man on the street” interviews and you will see and hear a whole bunch of male “idiots” who voted for Hope and Change.
Mr_Magoo on June 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM
While I’ll agree, the gap has narrowed with this last election, it’s still a statistical FACT that the majority of Democratic Party voters are women, and a statistical FACT the majority of Republican voters are men.
Minus out the women with a non-women’s suffrage idea, and presto, NO DEM PARTY
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM
I think that quote is destined to become Barry’s own “Mission Accomplished”
VelvetElvis on June 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM
The BILLIONS being funneled by The One and his wife and cronies to inner city entities like ACORN will present an obstacle to 2012.
Porkulus was never intended to boost the economy as much as it was intended to boost entitlements through groups like Americorps and ACORN.
Their plan, I believe is to saturate urban constituencies with money, cars, rent subsidies, mortgage subsidies and BS busy work government jobs.
Once 2012 comes along they shift the base to election concerns. Voter registration, organizing town halls, etc.
Unless somehow the money being funneled into these urban money pits is stopped I can’t see how this socialist freight train can be stopped.
FireBlogger on June 19, 2009 at 12:35 PM
More Good News For Obarfa:
Jobless rate in Western US tops 10 percent
JiangxiDad on June 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Doesn’t matter. Obama is a hubrisric radical ideologue with a blank check from the Reid-Pelosi Congress to ‘re-make’ America. So Obama will cram as much as he can down our throats between now and Nov 2010, the public be damned.
petefrt on June 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Ground control to Barry Hussein, ground control to Barry Hussein.
Misinformed electorate starting to figure you are so lame.
Hening on June 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM
RE: JiangxiDad on June 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM
So, the stimulus is working is NE and VT right?
angryed on June 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM
It is the continuing oversampling of democraps and independents and vast undercounting (scoring) of republicans/
conservatives, that keep Obama’s ratings above fifty percent. If the scoring were done accurately (republicans at 32 percent not 23 percent) Obama’s ratings would be in the toilet. The press continues to cover for the charlatan. However with the Iran situation, I believe that even with the massively massaged numbers Obama may plummet below fifty percent.
eaglewingz08 on June 19, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Too bad he isn’t vulnerable to kryptonite.
Dark-Star on June 19, 2009 at 12:51 PM
We still need a two-party system and obviously they would have opposing views. The Founding Fathers knew this as well as the three branch system. Otherwise, you might end up with the likes of the Jim Jones, Warren Jeffs, the Taliban, Dear Leader, Supreme Leader or worse.
Mr_Magoo on June 19, 2009 at 12:52 PM
And we have a virtual dictator destroying America now WITH a two party system. Besides, whio says it’d need to be the far left girlie man DEM party of today.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Yes, getalife got 86′ed by Ed several weeks ago. She first “banned” herself, then immediately came back.
Del Dolemonte on June 19, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Remember that in order to make Obama a one term president, we actually need someone who can win the election in 2012. As far as I know, the Republican party is not doing much to uncover fresh new candidates. And lets remember that the power to win presidential election lies with the independents.
mperek on June 19, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Jeff from W
Ahh, I see. One could say the same thing about Blacks, who voted overwhelmingly for Obama. I personally know some who voted for him just because he was black. Shall we dis- enfranchise them as well? Slippery slope.
Your way of phrasing makes it sound as though you want women to go back to being barefoot and pregnant, which I am sure you aren’t advocating at all. You have a tendency to use a sledgehammer to make a point when a crowbar would work better and not be so divisive. But, you are what you are and that is that.
I’ll be the first to admit there are plenty of illogical women voting (I know a few), but the vast majority of women I know are thoughtful voters, who understand what is at stake in our country. I would be a pity to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater when there are other ways to win elections.
Beaglemom on June 19, 2009 at 1:19 PM
new video from RNC on health care and taxes taxes taxes coming
ginaswo on June 19, 2009 at 1:21 PM
Yea, that’s all I’m sayin’.
Reagan’s message about “no pastels – but bold colors” does not mean black and white. There’s enough room in this great country for plenty of bold colors.
Mr_Magoo on June 19, 2009 at 1:33 PM
“If you subsidize something, you get more of it; if you tax something you get less of it.”
I hold this Reagan truth to be self evident. Obama is subsidizing failure and wants to tax success. And he is a Harvard grad. I am a lowly SFA grad, and even I know enough history to know that taxing more during an economic downturn is stupid and a proven loser.
saiga on June 19, 2009 at 1:37 PM
Amen. The Republican party looks like it is in a death spiral. No ideas, only the party of no to block the party of dough.
Once the dems grant amnesty, the deck will be stacked and America will begin it’s journy to third word status.
saiga on June 19, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Perhaps YOU know a thoughtful group of women voters. I, I’m sorry to say, don’t know as large a group. Perhaps I’m guilty of using a “sledgehammer” rather than a “crowbar” to make my point,but that’s EXACTLY my point.
I’m sick of having to: re-phrase, re-package, hide, obscufate, weaken, sugar coat or just generally have to make an argument politically correct to protect the sensibilities of those I’m discussing/debating with.
Since simply restricting Black Voters, might not defeat the Leftist Women, tactically it’d be better to just leave the entifre gender out, especially since the Black Vote would then be “halved”.
As far as “thoughtful voters” I guess that’s a matter of opinion when it comes to calling someone thoughtful.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 1:42 PM
As far as “barefoot & pregnant”, I’ll debate anyone, anytime, that the “Women’s Movement” of the 1960s did more to HARM women than to help women.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 2:08 PM
My daughter, a law school graduate and staunch conservative, and my niece also a staunch conservative have arrived at the same conclusions that in many cases giving the vote to women has done more harm than good.
Beaglemon agree that we need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
“As far as “thoughtful voters” I guess that’s a matter of opinion when it comes to calling someone thoughtful.” You seem to be making a claim to omniscience here Jeff. One pseudo-god in this country is enough.
chemman on June 19, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Sorry if it sounded that way, but I’d love to hear the “thoughts” in the term “thoughtfulness”. Most women I speak to about politics start out says, “I feel…
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 2:19 PM
ooops..saying
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM
We can talk about Iran, women’s suffrage, polls and on and on.
While we argue Owebama is installing czars that report only to him, and firing
Inspectors General that don’t.
The MSM should be all over this “coincidental” step toward total control, and
yet no one connects these 2 troubling dots. What a f..king mess!
ontherocks on June 19, 2009 at 2:33 PM
You won’t get an argument from me about the women’s movement. I think “feminism” did women no favors. I’m no feminist.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the point you are making about giving women the right to vote. There are plenty of women who are ga-ga over Obama. (Wasn’t it Vogue that had an article about women who fantasize about being with him?) Same with Clinton. But, there are many who are not and think you are a tad overgeneralizing.Most of the women on here are very well grounded and astute.
I was more questioning your delivery, as it made you sound anti-female, which clearly you are not. You’ll have to pardon my being confrontational,as I am new here and can only go by what I am reading on the screen. I’ve been on other forums and seen too many men who have valid points to make have the point discounted because of “sledgehammer” and “anti-female” tactics. As you say, you are tired of sugar coating. Actually, I appreciate not having things dumbed down, but don’t be surprised if you get women in a huff. :)
Valid observation
Beaglemom on June 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I hate the sight of him. I can’t stand to hear his droning, preaching, voice. I have to leave the room if he’s on t.v. Uh, this of course is all on his “white half.” I adore the black half and always will. Black is beautiful. Barry is a dork, but Barack is coooool. Do you think I’m on to something here? Huh?
UnEasyRider on June 19, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Beaglemom on June 19, 2009 at 2:47 PM
I’m really NOT anti-female. It angers me though when I seen an obvious con artist, like Obama, put one over on a self allowing gullible female. The adulation part also bugs me.
I thought it ended by age 21. (Just remembering the ages of the screaming girls when the Beatles were on Sullivan in ‘64)
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Quick…watch this before it gets pulled and everybody at the station gets fired.
whatzit2u on June 19, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Well as a guy, all I can say as a black guy Obama seems as cool as Erckel.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 3:05 PM
oops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhhkF3dqXR0&feature=player_embedded
whatzit2u on June 19, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Right on the money. Thanks for a good laugh.
Kevin71 on June 19, 2009 at 3:10 PM
I like both my Senators (both GOP) most of the time and I really like my Rep…in fact he used to be my doctor before he retired to run for Congress.
ladyingray on June 19, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Well you can put this conservative woman in the disagree with you column.
ladyingray on June 19, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Math 101….
American citizen count: 330,000,000
2010 Budget: $3,500,000,000,000
- Tax reciepts: $2,381,000,000,000
= 2010 Deficit: $1,119,000,000,000 (more spent than received)
National Debt: $11,400,000,000,000
Quick math produces ~ per US citizen.
Deficit: $3,390
Budget: $10,606 (for a total of ~$14,000 / person)
Debt: $34,545 – what we already owe per person
The interest paid on the national debt is ~ $242,000,000,000
That’s $733 /per person on interest alone
This is ABOVE and BEYOND what is already collected!
So let’s apply some of these to the health care spending proposed:
A figure I’ve heard bantered around is $1.2 Trillion -
$1,200,000,000,000 / 330,000,000 = ~$3,600 / person or $300/mo.
Now I ask you, what quality of health care insurance can you buy for a family of 4 for $1,200 / mo? ($14,400/yr!) Cadillac baby!
By comparison, what you will get from Uncle Obama is a waiting line for rationed services.
Reform yes, but open it to greater free market. Don’t turn it into a Government Monopoly. -that would be bad-
hoakie on June 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM
They stay that way until old grannies. Even the Bible warns us about it: “For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts…”
Obama and the Democrats are just another form of snake-oil salesmen or televangelist, and they just love naive women.
TMK on June 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Obama was a fool to wade into national health care without having a plan.
Being the one who usually plays both sides and jumps to the winner, he thought he could use Congress for the same game.
Obama should have talked to McCain who was sunk by his Congress buddies in his great election mistake (thinking Congress would rally behind him and save the economy so he could get elected President instead of rallying the people behind him to save the nation from Congress)
Obama let Congress write the stimulus so it would be their fault and they drained the Treasury for nothing but maintaining payrolls and election paybacks
Now Obama is asking the same bunch to empty an empty bathtub to make him look good
If employment had gone up, or foreclosures had gone down he might have a chance, but the stimulus home saving package turned out to be a reprint of the Bush Hope for Homeowner package which saved a grand total of 25 homeowners. And the jobs situation is kaput
Wait til they start taxing employer health benefits. They do that in Michigan and it is is the greatest disincentive to offer health benefits. Any employer dumb enough to offer good benefits will pay a premium in higher taxes
entagor on June 19, 2009 at 3:20 PM
“They stay that way until old grannies. Even the Bible warns us about it: “For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts…”
Obama and the Democrats are just another form of snake-oil salesmen or televangelist, and they just love naive women.
TMK on June 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM”
Excellent Point, and we all know how Eve helped Adam by having a voice in matters.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Nothing to argue about. Without women voting, no Democrats in power.It’s statistical.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 3:27 PM
I was still a bleeding heart Liberal at 21.
Beaglemom on June 19, 2009 at 3:34 PM
I always point out that Adam’s sin was explained by God as “heeding his wife.” A faithful follower of God listens to what a woman says, then rebukes her when she says to do something stupid (See: Job & Wife, Joseph & Potiphar’s Wife). Today’s male politicians of every stripe make a nation-ruining career out of “heeding” the stupid and selfish wants of gullible women.
TMK on June 19, 2009 at 3:35 PM
Excellent Point, and we all know how Eve helped Adam by having a voice in matters.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 3:26 PM
Hallelujah! Speak it Speak the truth TMK Hallelujah!
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 3:37 PM
No, not really..I bet you’re exaggerating.
I was BORN a conservative. I had to take care of things at home. That’ll make you grow up real quick.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Jeff from WI:
You make me wish I were a liberal. It’s hard enough being a non-white conservative woman without having to apologise for idiotic stereotypes like you.
Fortunata on June 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Obama is a young foolish man with old, discredited ideas. A disaster.
echosyst on June 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
No need to apologize for me. I simply stated a FACT that if women were NOT given the right to vote, the Democratic Party would NOT be in power. Nothing to get emotional about, it’s just a statistical FACT.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM
No, no exaggeration: Born a Liberal, bred a Liberal, was a Liberal.I still have the Liberal playbook encoded in my brain. A public school education reinforced it and a political science major in college would have sealed it. I was a freshman at UCLA when Iran took our citizens hostage. Carter’s ineptitude in office made me question everything I had been taught and when I graduated Reagan had turned the country around. I started college a Liberal Democrat and graduated a fence sitter. By the time the 84 election came around I was a solid Conservative. I was 23.
Beaglemom on June 19, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Had Adam not partaken of the fruit, Eve would have been expelled from the garden alone. I wonder what effect that would have had on the population of the earth.
So in a way, Adam had to eat so that we could all exist.
I say thanks to the fairer sex.
csdeven on June 19, 2009 at 4:31 PM
So they couldn’t procreate in the garden of Eden?
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 4:36 PM
I’m sure, but my point is that after Eve partook she was history. Adam had to eat in order to stay with her. She convinced him to partake.
csdeven on June 19, 2009 at 4:44 PM
It was a trade of immortality for knowledge (of good and evil), which, once Man had this knowledge and then ate from the tree of life, there would be nothing that separated Man from G-d … but Eve didn’t know any of that.
On the bright(?) side, we have, in these days, returned the fruit to the tree, as there is no longer any such thing as good or evil in this post-modernist world.
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Additionally, isn’t that how women are? Passive/aggressive? You say you don’t have the money to remodel the front room. She proceeds to pull down the wallpaper and viola’!! She gets her new front room.
csdeven on June 19, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Oops. I didn’t mean a trade of immortality, but the closing of the separation from G-d and the beginning of a sense of the individual self. The immortality would be had in the second part, had G-d not expelled them. Sorry.
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 4:49 PM
I’ve never heard it explained that way. It’s perfect. The difference is that Adam and Eve were without sin and the world embraces it.
csdeven on June 19, 2009 at 4:49 PM
The question is: Did Adam make the choice to eat because she was his help meet and needed to be with her or did she beguile him as the serpent beguiled her?
csdeven on June 19, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Darn. I have to correct another mistake (Sorry, again). Eve did know what she was doing. Straight from the Old Testament, (Gen. 3:4-5) “And the serpent said unto the woman: ‘Ye shall not surely die; for G-d doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as G-d, knowing good and evil.’”
All it says further is that Eve ate and then, “she gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.” I think that some other texts might go into more detail on this, but this is all the Torah has to say. Adam replies to G-d, “The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.”. It sorta, kinda, sounds like he knew, since I would think he knew what the fruit looked like. But when your wife tells you to do something …
Sorry about messing some of these details up.
progressoverpeace on June 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Adam ate and was punished because….. (from Gen. 3 King James)
“And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;”
Adam knew he wasn’t supposed to eat it, but he allowed himself to be convinced. He is responsible for his actions, just as Eve was responsible for allowing the serpent to talk her into doing something she knew was forbidden.
Beaglemom on June 19, 2009 at 5:22 PM
So basically, once again, a guy gave up a great thing because the thought with his little brain and listened to a woman.
Jeff from WI on June 19, 2009 at 6:06 PM
Yep.
That is the question. Was it the little brain thinking or did Adam realize that his place was with his help meet? I believe the latter.
csdeven on June 19, 2009 at 7:00 PM
You have it wrong. It was not Eve that was first sinner but Adam.
The garden of Eden was gated and on top of a mountain.
Adam was the Priest of creation. He named the animals. He saw creation,saw through it to see God and offered it back up to God(the Holy Trinity).
One of his duties was to guard the garden.
He failed to guard the garden and let the serpent in.
It was he who first missed the mark.
Their sin was that they mistook the creation for the Creator. They broke the fast that Christ commanded of them and they thought that there was Life in the food, when in fact the only Real life is Christ God.
St Maximus the Confessor
MaximusConfessor on June 19, 2009 at 10:49 PM
Dear St Maximus the Confessor,
.
Don’t get me wrong but would you mind sighting for all us here the passages in the Holy Bible that supports your claims. It’s a good book. I mean a real page turner from you know “Let there be Light” and so on. Just finished reading the good book last week for the eleventh time and I do not recall the Lord of host making himself known to this earth till around the reign of Augustus the Emperor of Rome. It is always good to read more than one book of history to source your materials which will affirm someones testimonies which expressed ethical conduct of truthfulness …
.
Peace be with you. Just do not assert false claims that can not be proven outright. It is a quality of being believable or trustworthy thing. I’m sure if you take the time to think about what I have written to you the light will come shining through.
Americannodash on June 20, 2009 at 5:51 AM
I remember some posts I read about the Carrie Prejean/gay marriage episode where the liberals all assume Obama is lying about being against gay marriage, and how *wink, wink* every progressive is in on it. Then I see a pattern too:
– this post, “Barone: The President who Fell to Earth from the Sky”
– another on Hot Air, “Oh my: Health care, amnesty, climate change bills all suddenly in trouble”
– Where are the Cries of ‘Obama Lied, Jobs Died’?
http://www.bizzyblog.com/2009/05/23/where-are-the-cries-of-obama-lied-jobs-died/
– or how about “false ‘vows’” and “aspirational statements”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2009/06/21/free-pass-obamas-strident-vow-ama-shouldnt-be-taken-literally-ap-yawns
– Obama in negative approval ratings
Maybe the American public is winking back at Obama — Affirmative Action President.
FeFe on June 21, 2009 at 8:04 PM
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