Video: Sebelius’ double talk on public plan

posted at 4:05 pm on June 17, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

Another gem from the guys at Verum Serum. The video has been up before, but it’s even better after hearing from Health & Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius today. She tried denying that a public-plan option would serve as a stalking horse for single-payer nationalization of health care, but in 2007, she sang a different tune:

In 2007, Sebelius explains that the US can’t just change to a single-payer system without a way to “close the gap” and move gradually to it. Today, though, she tells the AP that the public plan isn’t designed to do that:

In an interview with The Associated Press, Sebelius said that President Barack Obama does not want to drive health insurers out of business, but make them more competitive by offering working families and small businesses the option of a public plan without the high overhead costs of marketing, administration and profits. …

The idea of a public plan has drawn sharp opposition from the insurance industry, which sees it as a step toward a government-run system like in Canada or the United Kingdom. Business groups, doctors and hospitals also have concerns. Republicans have made the issue the cornerstone of their opposition to Obama’s health care push. And while liberals enthusiastically support a government plan, conservative Democrats are leery.

Sebelius said that Obama is not trying to run insurers out of town.

The notion that a public option “is really the stalking horse” for a government-run system “is not accurate,” Sebelius said.

Er, sure, except that Sebelius herself championed that very approach.

Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal notices the Democrats shifting positions on competitiveness:

Democrats have spent years arguing that corporate tax rates don’t matter to U.S. competitiveness. But all of a sudden one of their favorite arguments for government-run health care has become . . . U.S. corporate competitiveness. Political conversions on this scale could use a little scrutiny. …

A recent study from none other than the White House Council of Economic Advisers notes exactly this point: If medical spending continues to accelerate, it expects take-home pay to stagnate. According to the New York Times, White House economic aide Larry Summers pressured CEA chairman Christine Romer to make the competitiveness argument, “adding that it was among the political advisers’ favorite ‘talking points.’” Ms. Romer pointedly retorted, “I’m not going to put schlocky arguments in there.” How the schlock gets into Mr. Obama’s speeches is a different question.

It’s certainly true that the U.S. employer-based insurance system can dampen entrepreneurial spirits. There’s the “job lock” phenomenon, in which employees fear leaving a less productive job because they’re afraid to lose their health benefits. Another problem is that insurance costs more for small groups than the large risk pools that big corporations assemble, meaning that it’s harder to form new businesses that can offer policies. But all this is really an argument for developing the individual health insurance market, where policies would follow workers, not jobs.

As for the competitiveness line, it’s nonsense for most companies. The exceptions are heavily unionized businesses like auto makers that have locked themselves in to gold-plated coverage, especially for retirees. They have a harder time adjusting health costs and wages. Other companies might get a bit more running room in the short run if government assumed all health costs a la the single-payer systems of Western Europe. But over time the market would clear — compensation being determined by the demand for and supply of labor — and wages would rise. Or they might not rise at all if health-care costs are merely replaced by the tax increases necessary to finance Mr. Obama’s new multi-trillion-dollar entitlement.

Besides, as the WSJ notes in another article, the Democrats plan on taxing businesses to pay for ObamaCare:

In the House, Democrats are putting off public release of their financing plans, but have begun discussions. Among the options under consideration: a levy on upper-income individuals, or claiming revenue that would be raised when the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy begin to expire. Another option is curbing a tax break that lets companies defer or postpone taxes on their foreign income.

Obama has already announced his intention to pursue the latter tax increase.  How, exactly, does that make US-based corporations more competitive? Answer: it doesn’t.

It’s not just Sebelius that doesn’t know the meaning of the word competition.

Blowback

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Comment pages: 1 2

Thank God she’s not in Kansas anymore

CMonster on June 17, 2009 at 4:08 PM

Ed, clean up in Pawlenty thread. Please.

upinak on June 17, 2009 at 4:09 PM

I disagree with the GOP on this issue and think it’s a political mistake.

Just my 2 cents.

The GOP could STEAL the 2012 elections if they viewed this as a good thing for business.

Alas, I can tell it’s not going to happen.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:09 PM

In an interview with The Associated Press, Sebelius said that President Barack Obama does not want to drive health insurers out of business

That’s why Obama chose her for the job. She has no integrity and is willing to lie through her teeth.

Daggett on June 17, 2009 at 4:11 PM

My apologies to the rest of the nation. But I’m so glad she’s not in Kansas anymore.

Keyser-Soze on June 17, 2009 at 4:11 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:09 PM

It is a losing thing for business, for the American people and for health care.

I’d like to see you provide some sort of fact of support for your opinion that it’s a “good thing”. Can you do that?

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:11 PM

No wonder she had tax problems…

d1carter on June 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM

I think he means “she sang” a different tune,” not “she sung a different tune.”

Unless we’re feeling a little backwoods today. And not that there’s anything wrong with that, among friends.

BigD on June 17, 2009 at 4:13 PM

mycowardice weighs in to begin extolling the virtues and benefits of the single payer system in 3………..2…..1…..

(and thereby totally missing the point that the theme of the thread is Sebelius lying her ass off about the public plan’s intentions)

manofaiki on June 17, 2009 at 4:14 PM

They deny that given the choice between paying for benefits of employees and not paying for benefits of employees that companies would choose the not paying for benefits for employees.

The new government plan is going to come from raising taxes. Why would a business both pay higher tax rates AND higher medical insurance premiums. . . especially if they then tax those premiums as earned income.

It’s just completely disingenuous of them. But I’m sure they believe what they are saying on some level because they are ignorant about this subject and how it works. They just want all medical insurance premiums to come to DC so they can spend more money.

ThackerAgency on June 17, 2009 at 4:14 PM

I’m on the board of a non-profit org. We have 2 employees.

Healthcare is killing us. If there were a public plan, we’d gladly pay these employees to purchase it.

It would save us so much in the future.

I’m absolutely FOR a public option.

I also have a child in school who is too old for my insurance and cannot get covered. It’s awful.

Today, Blue Cross was in the news for paying bonuses for kicking people off of their plan who had serious illnesses.

Bonuses. That’s the private way.

I will NEVER agree with any of you guys on this.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM

The GOP could STEAL the 2012 elections if they viewed this as a good thing for business.

Alas, I can tell it’s not going to happen.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Perhaps because it would be a disaster for business because it would wreck our economy?

Medicare is wrought with fraud now, how is it going to be when the idiot Democrats allow anyone, at any time, to march into a “mental health” provider and demand care on the taxpayer’s tab?

Costs won’t be contained or lowered, they will explode. The idiot Democrats have no idea what it is they are doing.

NoDonkey on June 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:09 PM

Since its going to increase labor costs for business either through more taxation or higher insurance costs, please explain to me how it is good for business???

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM

I, along with the majority of peopled polled, want to see real healthcare reform.

And pronto.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

I’m on the board of a non-profit org. We have 2 employees.

Healthcare is killing us. If there were a public plan, we’d gladly pay these employees to purchase it.

non-profits are not businesses.

rolls eyes…

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:11 PM

In AnniCA defense, it is sort of “good” for business, but it screws individuals over pretty bad. Businesses would just offload the healthcare costs and move employees over to the govt plan and they wouldn’t have to pay healthcare for their employees.

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:18 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Link to said poll, please…

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:18 PM

But 1)we ain’t got anymore trillion dollars to borrow 2)who the hell wants the govt running healthcare in the first place? 3)Sorry AnninCA but this aint “real healthcare reform” it’s more like a deathwish

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM

Roll your eyes all you wish. We’re like any small business with a small number of employees.

We pay the same rates as a regular business. No private insurer gives us a break simply because we’re non-profit.

The public plan is the only way for small business to survive.

I’m for it.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM

Today, Blue Cross was in the news for paying bonuses for kicking people off of their plan who had serious illnesses.

Bonuses. That’s the private way.

I will NEVER agree with any of you guys on this.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM

Blue Cross in Ca is a poor example. They were a corrupt company and they got punished for it. Now you can get another plan because you don’t like Blue Cross. If it is all government plan and they do something you don’t like, what are you going to do? Where are you going to go? Fortunately you get to vote, but you get to vote for the same option you had that you didn’t like.

ThackerAgency on June 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:18 PM

I give you Exhibit A:

Perhaps because it would be a disaster for business because it would wreck our economy?

Medicare is wrought with fraud now, how is it going to be when the idiot Democrats allow anyone, at any time, to march into a “mental health” provider and demand care on the taxpayer’s tab?

Costs won’t be contained or lowered, they will explode. The idiot Democrats have no idea what it is they are doing.

NoDonkey on June 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:20 PM

And pronto.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Reform ne socialist medicine.

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM

How about the link to that poll?

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:21 PM

And Anna, your argument is exactly what they are saying WON’T happen.

You just said that you currently have a plan for your business. . . but if there were a government plan, you would drop it in favor of the government plan (that doesn’t have to make a profit, it only has to raise your taxes).

They say that companies won’t drop their private plan. If all companies drop their private plan for this government one, the cost goes to about 3T thats THREE TRILLION dollars each year.

The revenue this year was around 2 Trillion for everything else.

Anna, it sounds good, but unless you can come up with 3 trillion dollars for the government to pay for this, we can’t afford it because of what you said you’d do.

You live in California. . . you know how good the government is with money aren’t you. . . ya’ll are down to what a 30 billion dollar deficit this year? GREAT! Give them all power over all money. . . that’ll fix it.

ThackerAgency on June 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Is health care insurance a right? If so, at what cost?

d1carter on June 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM

Roll your eyes all you wish. We’re like any small business with a small number of employees.

No you are not. Small business is no way the same as a non-profit.

come on….

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Ann — look

You can keep repeating what you want, and what other people want, but wanting something doesn’t make what is desired correct.

It doesn’t make the desired object good for us.

Ensign is a lesson in that.

The fact is, government has long been the PROBLEM with it’s ludicrous health insurance laws and regulatory tom foolery.

It’s been the problem with their state to state mandates. Been the problem by letting people sue for anything.

They’ve been the problem. Why do you want the problem? More of the same.

blatantblue on June 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM

I do not want my healthcare decisions being made by a woman who cannot explain policy without moving her arms around in a bizzare interpretive dance.

myrenovations on June 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM

Ladygray- I totally agree with you. I was just saying that it would reduce costs for businesses but it would be a disaster for their employees. The Bizs are getting taxed the hell out and they’ll be happy to get some sort of relief even if they have to lay off workers. F’d up? Yes, but they need profit.

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Where is the video of Sebelius explaining how ObamaCare is going to be just like AnninCA’s Kaiser plan?

myrenovations on June 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Again, the trolls are missing the point.

It isn’t just the merits of a nationalized single-payer health care system vs. the present system.

IT’S WHY THE DEM’S HAVE TO CONSISTENTLY LIE THEIR ASS OFF ABOUT WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO.

As Sebelius is clearly demonstrated to be doing in the video above.

What say the trolls about this?

Why can’t your leaders be HONEST about what they intend for this country and it’s insurers? Why do they feel COMPELLED to lie and deceive on this issue?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

manofaiki on June 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM

come on….

You…”come on.”

You tell me how it differs, one iota.

You’re a small business with 2 employess.

OK, now what?

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM

I, along with the majority of peopled polled, want to see real healthcare reform.

Depends on who you poll, now doesn’t it? Ditto for the definition of “reform”.

Bishop on June 17, 2009 at 4:25 PM

I do not want my healthcare decisions being made by a woman who cannot explain policy without moving her arms around in a bizzare interpretive dance.

So keep your insurance.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Ensign is a lesson in that
blatantblue on June 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM

Ding! You scored big with that cheapshot. Love it!

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:26 PM

Where is the video of Sebelius explaining how ObamaCare is going to be just like AnninCA’s Kaiser plan?

So don’t join it.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:26 PM

40% is a majority??

rolls eyes

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM

And, anytime, I’ll take that apology Lady.

I can’t beieve you think you’re informed but having been following the polls on this topic.

*tsk, tsk*

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM

Healthcare is killing us.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:15 PM

If you think it is killing us now just wait to see the killing under the public option.

Dire Straits on June 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:25 PM

You sound like a reasonable person so check this: How the heck do you expect private insurance to compete with the government? It’s impossible. Every private one would go broke within 5years and all that would be left would be Obamacare and goodluck with getting cancer treatment before you die.

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM

That’s 3 TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Not this measly 1 trillion over 10 years.

You are going to make your kids pick up this tab when you leave it to the one in college.

3 TRILLION dollars a year. California is closing schools, shutting down jails, etc etc etc because of a budget short fall. . . if they could (to save money), they’d close hospitals and doctors offices. Under a government plan, they’ll have to under a budget crisis like this.

ThackerAgency on June 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM

So don’t join it.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:26 PM

There will not be a choice.

myrenovations on June 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM

I wonder why you ignore the pitfalls of government run healthcare

The waste
the gerrymandering of care (obese and smokers will one day be barred from getting it)

the corruption (only the elitist gentry in england get private care — oh, and kennedy)

i mean, why invite such insanity with open arms?

why not embrace other alternatives?

why the utopian nonsense?

blatantblue on June 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM

You’re a small business with 2 employess.

OK, now what?

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM

Well number 1 I have to make a profit. So under this plan I would be required to give insurance to my employees or pay for the government plan. Both of those options probably increase my expenses so that I either have lower profits, have to lay someone off, or go out of business.

Non-profits don’t need to worry about that now do they??

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Ok, so keep paying for it through the ER rooms. Lose your local hospitals.

That’s your choice.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Non-profits don’t need to worry about that now do they??

Are you nuts? Of course, we do!

We barely survive. Healthcare costs will drive us out of business in 10 years, I predict.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:32 PM

It makes me sad to see people just accepting governmental growth and the Road to Serfdom with open arms like this.

blatantblue on June 17, 2009 at 4:32 PM

http://www.webmd.com/news/20090513/americans-divided-on-health-care-reform?src=rss_investeap

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM

You really should try another poll…there was no majority in favor of government run healthcare…

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:32 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:24 PM

I have lived SOCIALIST MEDICINE. Go ahead, ask me what its like.

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

The public plan is the trojan horse that will put the boot of ‘single payer health care’ on the necks of all those who it will affect.

Single payer care will be rationed, have waiting lists, require ‘authorization’, and at times will be denied.

That is not utopia, that is Hell.

daesleeper on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Ed, I’m sure Sibelius wouldn’t mind if a public plan drove private insurers out of business, but you’re setting up a big straw man here. She simply did not say anything to justify what you are saying she said here… in fact, she seems to be explicitly saying that right now she is for working with what he currently have to get more people insured.

DaveS on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Ok, so keep paying for it through the ER rooms. Lose your local hospitals.

That’s your choice.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:30 PM

Look at a map of where (most) hospitals are closing.

Then spend some time in contemplation of the locations.

Then brain storm about all the reasons hospitals in those locations are closing their doors.

myrenovations on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Meanwhile, you guys all sit back and play “ain’t it awful”

In my city, 7 hospitals……outta business. In less than 5 years, due to the flood into ER.

This is theoretical to you guys. Real, where I live.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

I give up on you AnninCA. Maybe you can try government healthcare in Cali and let the rest of us know how that works out for y’all. Just like the other “great” ideas that have been popping out of there lately.

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM

Non-profits don’t need to worry about that now do they??

Are you nuts? Of course, we do!

We barely survive. Healthcare costs will drive us out of business in 10 years, I predict.
AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:32 PM

Are you saying your non-profit makes a profit???

hmmmmmm.

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:34 PM

The public plan is the trojan horse that will put the boot of ’single payer health care’ on the necks of all those who it will affect.

You bet it’s a trojan horse.

Medicare costs went up 3%. Private insurance, up substantially more.

Why? Administration and profits.

You bet it will put them on notice.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM

Meanwhile, you guys all sit back and play “ain’t it awful”

In my city, 7 hospitals……outta business. In less than 5 years, due to the flood into ER.

This is theoretical to you guys. Real, where I live.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Nobody’s saying that here. I love the hospitals here in Texas. They’re great and always expanding. Can’t say that for government run Cali.

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM

In my city, 7 hospitals……outta business. In less than 5 years, due to the flood into ER.

This is theoretical to you guys. Real, where I live.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

And you think making it free will REDUCE that flood?

rolls eyes again

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM

son, either address the issue or bug off.

We have to buy healthcare just like a business does.

There’s no discount.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM

I wish we could “close the gap” on her mouth.

karlant on June 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM

Private insurance, up substantially more.

Why? Administration and profits.

You bet it will put them on notice.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM

State government mandates.

Lack of cross state options.

myrenovations on June 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM

I don’t see how you’re defending govt healthcare while criticizing how bad Medicare is. Duh, medicare is exactly what they’re proposing, just on a larger scale.

youngO on June 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM

And you think making it free will REDUCE that flood?

Where do you come up with the idea that it’ll be free?

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM

So Biden says about the trillion dollar stimulous package, that was fear-forced, mach-speeded through, “We guessed wrong.”
Now we come to the triple-trillion health-care hog that
has this enormous URGENT sticker attached to it. And you know what, it’ll get through, hampered only by, at first,
robust outcries, followed by whimpering protests, then
approved.

betsyz on June 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM

And you think making it free will REDUCE that flood?

rolls eyes again

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM

Making it “free” will crush the general practioners all over. Ask a gp in Mass.

myrenovations on June 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM

You honestly think that government will REDUCE paper work???

REALLY????

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM

You bet it will put them on notice.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM

IT WILL PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS.

You, who are arguing for govt health care cannot play the ADMINISTRATION card. Truly you are a moonbat.

daesleeper on June 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM

I wish we could “close the gap” on her mouth.

So annoying, having to listen to someone who doesn’t cosign everything you imagine to be true.

But, your wish is granted.

I have said my peace, again.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM

blatantblue on June 17, 2009 at 4:32 PM

sheeple…

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM

In my city, 7 hospitals……outta business. In less than 5 years, due to the flood into ER.

This is theoretical to you guys. Real, where I live.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

In every thread, you type this exact same thing. In every thread, it is explained to you why hospitals are closing and how the government is the cause of, not the solution to, the problem.

Yet, in the next thread you repeat it again. And again. And again.

lorien1973 on June 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM

And you think making it free will REDUCE that flood?

Where do you come up with the idea that it’ll be free?
AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM

Oh please. Are you really telling me that the ONE will force unemployed illegal and poor people to pay there share. God you really bought the party line didn’t you?

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:40 PM

Where do you come up with the idea that it’ll be free?
AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM

It’s not free now. I don’t see how think there’d be an improvement.

lorien1973 on June 17, 2009 at 4:42 PM

Anyone who thinks Sebelius cares about our health care yet has no problem with late term abortion is a bigger fool than I can imagine.

Dire Straits on June 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM

In my city, 7 hospitals……outta business. In less than 5 years, due to the flood into ER.

See “Immigration, enforcement of”……….

BacaDog on June 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM

If a single-payer system is such a great idea, then sell it to the American people–or are we too stupid? What I can’t stand is this blatant dishonesty and dissembling.

karlant on June 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM

I’m for it.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM

Move to Canada, then.

Meanwhile, the rest of us don’t want Obama to destroy the economy by spending another $4 trillion (probably much more). In fact, most of us would like him to cancel what’s left of the porkulus and budget overruns.

Daggett on June 17, 2009 at 4:44 PM

If a single-payer system is such a great idea, then sell it to the American people–or are we too stupid? What I can’t stand is this blatant dishonesty and dissembling.

karlant on June 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM

I don’t understand why people want to import a broken system (socialism) into the USA. If you want socialism, there are plenty of countries that will provide it for you. Move.

The USA is built on liberty and individual responsibility. Don’t screw up the USA for the rest of us just because you’re a closet Marxist. I say again, move.

Daggett on June 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM

If a single-payer system is such a great idea, then sell it to the American people–or are we too stupid? What I can’t stand is this blatant dishonesty and dissembling.

karlant on June 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM

More like, If a single-payer system is such a great idea, do it in your home state and show me the way to utopia. And good luck with that.

WashJeff on June 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM

karlant on June 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM

By the way, that was the editorial “you”, I wasn’t referring to you specifically – it’s clear you don’t want socialism.

Daggett on June 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM

The GOP could STEAL the 2012 elections if they viewed this as a good thing for business.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:09 PM

A liberal advising the GOP to adopt govt run health insurance as the way to go.

Why am I not surprised.

MarkTheGreat on June 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM

Non Profit as in Acorn?

LSUMama on June 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM

Team BO is morally bankrupt……they lie and spin their BS without any challenges other than on the internet and a few moments each day on Fox News.

David in ATL on June 17, 2009 at 4:48 PM

anninCA, and what is going to happen in 10 years after govt subsidized health insurance has driven all the other insurers into bankruptcy?

MarkTheGreat on June 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM

Where is the link to the poll that shows a majority of Americans want government run healthcare?

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM

I, along with the majority of peopled polled, want to see real healthcare reform.

And pronto.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

More of the medicine that caused the problem in the first place, is hardly reform.

MarkTheGreat on June 17, 2009 at 4:50 PM

Just because people want health care reformed, is not evidence that this is the reform that they want.

MarkTheGreat on June 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM

So keep your insurance.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:25 PM

Won’t be able to after govt subsidized insurance drives everyone else out of business.

MarkTheGreat on June 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM

How far my standards have been lowered:
If, from day one, Obama’s routine would be to roll out of bed around noon, take Biden out for burgers, come back and play with dog, have nightly Hollywood party (drinks on the House!), and didn’t do a damn thing more, just think of how much better off we’d be today.

betsyz on June 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM

Where is the link to the poll that shows a majority of Americans want government run healthcare?

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM

Lady…Don’t ask. It’s not there.

Ann…we know you mean well…

bluelightbrigade on June 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Just because people want health care reformed, is not evidence that this is the reform that they want.

MarkTheGreat on June 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM

You mean the choice is not between Obamacare or doing nothing at all and going the way of Chrysler? Imagine that!

karlant on June 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Where is the link to the poll that shows a majority of Americans want government run healthcare?

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:49 PM

She posted it. Her majority was 40%

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM

I, along with the majority of peopled polled, want to see real healthcare reform.

And pronto.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:17 PM

Reform is not = Gov’t run (i.e. single-payer).

P.S. Are you insured?

bluelightbrigade on June 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM

Won’t be able to after govt subsidized insurance drives everyone else out of business.

MarkTheGreat on June 17, 2009 at 4:54 PM

Exactly. You can keep your current insurance…provided they are still in business!

karlant on June 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM

Ann I’m in California, and I agree hospitals here are over loaded in the ER and some are closing. You and I both know the reason why… illegals. Tell me how under the Government health care they will be denied? Don’t get me started on the amnesty bill Obama has in mind ….oy

sandee on June 17, 2009 at 4:57 PM

AnninCA:

Just one question: Who is going to pay for this? In case you didn’t get the memo, we’re broke. We can’t afford yet another trillion dollar program!

pullingmyhairout on June 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM

In my city, 7 hospitals……outta business. In less than 5 years, due to the flood into ER.

This is theoretical to you guys. Real, where I live.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Qualify that. Show some data that say it’s actually b/c they were unable to keep up w/ volume in the ER.

I say this b/c usually there are many other factors involved…

bluelightbrigade on June 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM

Can somebody from Kansas please explain to me how you elected this far-left woman governor? I always had the impression that Kansans were level-headed people with a better than average public school system. What the hell happened? Did they put something in the water on election day? I remember this b**** came out and blamed the president after some disaster took place (a cyclone, I think). She also took a bunch of campaign money from late-term abortion providers. Thanks, Kansas!

It’s stuff like this that makes me think the American people are just too stupid to survive.

chris999 on June 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM

In my city, 7 hospitals……outta business. In less than 5 years, due to the flood into ER.

This is theoretical to you guys. Real, where I live.

AnninCA on June 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM

Qualify that. Show some data that say it’s actually b/c they were unable to keep up w/ volume in the ER.

I say this b/c usually there are many other factors involved…

bluelightbrigade on June 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM

And in CA, there ARE other reasons…

bluelightbrigade on June 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM

sonofdy on June 17, 2009 at 4:56 PM

Yeah…saw that…I want that other poll she was talking about…

bluelightbrigade on June 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM

That’s the poll I want to see…

ladyingray on June 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM

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